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JW Insider

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    JW Insider got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Blood transfusion refusals – why new guidelines aren’t up to scratch   
    From a medical point of view, I would submit that it is not just the children, but very few JW parents themselves could "demonstrate an ability to understand the implications of the consequences of refusing treatment." I would also posit that very few JW parents have even fully considered the Biblical point of view on blood transfusions for themselves either. We can surmise this from the fact that the vast majority of JWs accepted what the Watchtower said about rejecting all organ transplants as final, right up until the time the Watchtower changed its position on them. Immediately, the vast majority of JWs accepted the opposite position about accepting all organ transplants as final. Clearly, JWs had not considered the matter for themselves, and had not been using their own thinking abilities or even their own conscience in the matter.
    If any have had any dealings at length with persons on the Hospital Liaison Committees (HLCs) in various congregations, then it is likely obvious to that JWs do not generally make up their own mind on the matter of blood, either. We merely submit to the "mind" of the Watchtower. JWs continually consult with the Society or HLC members about what blood-related therapies could be acceptable to their conscience and which ones are not allowed to be acceptable to their conscience.
    (Romans 14:1-5) 1 Welcome the man having weaknesses in his faith, but do not pass judgment on differing opinions. 2 One man has faith to eat everything, but the man who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let the one eating not look down on the one not eating, and let the one not eating not judge the one eating, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand. 5 One man judges one day as above another; another judges one day the same as all others; let each one be fully convinced in his own mind.
    There is a relatively new problem that medical professionals and medical authorities have been dealing with and this is finally being considered in the laws of the "superior authorities." (Romans 13:1-5)
    (Romans 13:1-5) 1 Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. 2 Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves. . . . 5 There is therefore compelling reason for you to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of your conscience.
    The new problem is that there are now several Jehovah's Witnesses who have "surprised" the medical professionals and medical authorities by asking that they or their child be treated as an exception to the general rule for Jehovah's Witnesses. They will accept blood or otherwise "forbidden fractions" for themselves or children and make this a matter of conscience. These Witnesses make this decision in spite of the risk to their spirituality and/or the risk to their standing and acceptance in the congregation. This new problem has already been discussed in several respected medical journals. It's difficult to imagine the complication that this can cause for hospital professionals, even where the HLC has done its best to explain the Watch Tower's position. (The medical journals even discuss the legal implications of keeping the final decision of the parent or child from getting back to the HLC or other representative from the congregation.)
    Even putting aside the Biblical aspect for the moment (i.e., consideration about prospects for eternal life), many JWs simply reject that there is ever a time when a blood transfusion offers the best chance of saving (i.e., extending) the life of the patient. There are supposed to always be alternatives, and even if not available, the risks of blood transfusion have been so magnified that many JWs often believe that the medical risk of accepting always overrides potentially life-saving medical benefits.
    But the Society has admitted that blood transfusions (and other blood therapies that JWs do not accept) are often actually life-saving (from a medical viewpoint, not a spiritual viewpoint). 
    To understand the complications, therefore, let's assume that there are times when the Society is right and the medical authorities are right, and that there really are times when a blood transfusion (or related therapy) is the best chance for saving the life of the patient. We are only considering those types of cases below.
    Now consider the Law, for example and consider what should be the JW view toward the "superior authorities" in the following circumstances? How much effort should the HLC (or other consulted elders) put into convincing parents or child to conform to current "Watch Tower" policy in these situations?
    What is listed below are 28 different situations with the following "variables:"
    The person faced with the question is either:
    6 or 16 years of age  (6/16) - the 6-year-old is only considered in these cases with JW parents. Baptized or Unbaptized (B/U)  - only applied to the 16 year old, where a 16 year old may be associating with Witnesses even though the parents are not JWs Parents are JW or not JW (PJW/NJW) - "mixed" marriage where only one spouse is JW is not included in any scenario. The child herself either wants to Accept, Reject or is Unconscious [and without directive] (A/R/U) The parent of the child either wants to agree with the child's decision or disagree (PA/PD) - note that if child is unconscious, then disagreement with a stated decision does not apply (although it is possible that a child carries a blood directive that JW parents reject at time of emergency) In other words, as an example, case #1 means that the child is 16, unbaptized, parents are JW, but the child wants to accept a blood transfusion, and the JW parents agree that she can choose to accept it. Case #28 is a 6-year-old unbaptized child with JW parents, where the child wants to reject a transfusion, but the parents disagree, and want her to accept it in this case.
    16,U,PJW,A,PA  16,U,PJW,A,PD 16,B,PJW,A,PA 16,B,PJW,A,PD 16,U,PJW,R,PA 16,U,PJW,R,PD 16,B,PJW,R,PA 16,B,PJW,R,PD 16,U,PJW,U,PA 16,U,PJW,U,PD 16,B,PJW,U,PA 16,B,PJW,U,PD 16,U,NJW,A,PA 16,U,NJW,A,PD 16,B,NJW,A,PA 16,B,NJW,A,PD 16,U,NJW,R,PA 16,U,NJW,R,PD 16,B,NJW,R,PA 16,B,NJW,R,PD 16,U,NJW,U,PA 16,U,NJW,U,PD 16,B,NJW,U,PA 16,B,NJW,U,PD 6,U,PJW,A,PA 6,U,PJW,A,PD 6,U,PJW,R,PA 6,U,PJW,R,PD The complication of a child having one JW parent and one non-JW parent, is not considered at all here, and might be further complicated by the acceptance of gender roles, where, for example, a husband who is a non-JW demands that he be accepted as the "scriptural" spiritual head of the family. Also, even where the parent and child are in agreement, they may still be at odds with either the medical professionals or the HLC. The "law" of the superior authorities can also become a concern, and may also be a concern that the JW parent (or child) will see differently than the HLC based on their conscience. All these scenarios might be a clue as to why the Apostle Paul rejected the kind of Pharisaism that would try to account for all the various scenarios and merely left "legal" matters up to each individual conscience.
  2. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from The Librarian in Twenty Choppers and Long Stemmed Roses   
    The story brings back a haunting memory.
    Back in the late 1960's a 17 or 18 year-old disfellowshipped girl from our mid-Missouri congregation died in a car accident. She had only been disfellowshipped for a couple of months, and of course she could not have a funeral at the Kingdom Hall. No Witness would even give a talk at the funeral home or the grave site. The mother was terribly distraught. (I'm sure the father was, too, but he was not a Witness and I don't remember whether I ever met him.) At the Hall, one of the elders immediately started repeating the fact that a Truth book had been found in her car. After the meeting I heard him repeat it to at least 3 different small groups. It became common knowledge throughout the congregation quickly. (The brother wasn't really an "elder," per se, since we didn't have the elder's arrangement back then. He was probably the "accounts servant," if memory serves.)
    My older brother was a friend of the girl's younger brother, and we still went bowling or to other outings. I once heard the younger brother talking about his sister, and I heard my brother saying, "But, you know, they did find a Truth book in the car." I heard the younger brother say, "Yeah, but that...." and then he just dropped his voice and changed the subject.
     
  3. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to The Librarian in JW.org baptized Siamese Twins in the Philippines   
    Regional Convention in Pangasinan, Philippines
     
  4. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from SuzA in Twenty Choppers and Long Stemmed Roses   
    The story brings back a haunting memory.
    Back in the late 1960's a 17 or 18 year-old disfellowshipped girl from our mid-Missouri congregation died in a car accident. She had only been disfellowshipped for a couple of months, and of course she could not have a funeral at the Kingdom Hall. No Witness would even give a talk at the funeral home or the grave site. The mother was terribly distraught. (I'm sure the father was, too, but he was not a Witness and I don't remember whether I ever met him.) At the Hall, one of the elders immediately started repeating the fact that a Truth book had been found in her car. After the meeting I heard him repeat it to at least 3 different small groups. It became common knowledge throughout the congregation quickly. (The brother wasn't really an "elder," per se, since we didn't have the elder's arrangement back then. He was probably the "accounts servant," if memory serves.)
    My older brother was a friend of the girl's younger brother, and we still went bowling or to other outings. I once heard the younger brother talking about his sister, and I heard my brother saying, "But, you know, they did find a Truth book in the car." I heard the younger brother say, "Yeah, but that...." and then he just dropped his voice and changed the subject.
     
  5. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in Twenty Choppers and Long Stemmed Roses   
    The story brings back a haunting memory.
    Back in the late 1960's a 17 or 18 year-old disfellowshipped girl from our mid-Missouri congregation died in a car accident. She had only been disfellowshipped for a couple of months, and of course she could not have a funeral at the Kingdom Hall. No Witness would even give a talk at the funeral home or the grave site. The mother was terribly distraught. (I'm sure the father was, too, but he was not a Witness and I don't remember whether I ever met him.) At the Hall, one of the elders immediately started repeating the fact that a Truth book had been found in her car. After the meeting I heard him repeat it to at least 3 different small groups. It became common knowledge throughout the congregation quickly. (The brother wasn't really an "elder," per se, since we didn't have the elder's arrangement back then. He was probably the "accounts servant," if memory serves.)
    My older brother was a friend of the girl's younger brother, and we still went bowling or to other outings. I once heard the younger brother talking about his sister, and I heard my brother saying, "But, you know, they did find a Truth book in the car." I heard the younger brother say, "Yeah, but that...." and then he just dropped his voice and changed the subject.
     
  6. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Ann O'Maly in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    @TrueTom   You make some very valid points in your post. I wouldn't argue against any of it.
    There is also considerable overlap between bullying and sexual abuse. Sexual abuse often becomes just another type of bullying, and those in the "herd" who have been weakened emotionally by either/or will often find themselves targeted (picked off) by abusers (predators) for the rest of their lives. After looking at 4,500 cases of reported sexual abuse in the Catholic Church between 1950 and 2015, (and looking at more statistically significant reporting especially since 1985) The Australian Royal Commission (ARC) reported that about 7% of Catholic priests have been accused. But it was lower in the Catholic schools run by nuns dealing with children, and much higher in the places where males in authority dealt with children (average age was 10 and 11). 30% of the crimes were committed by Catholic "brothers," (those usually assigned to various "orders") another 30% of the crimes were by priests themselves, and 5% by Catholic "sisters" (generally, nuns). It was highest in the "Order of St. John of God" where a full 40% of those in authority there were accused of child abuse. The reason, it shouldn't surprise us, is that these men worked specifically with emotionally disturbed children. Easy picking! One person I listened to on the BBC made it clear that any organization anywhere in the world that had such a high rate of accused and convicted child abusers would be considered a "criminal organization."
    I agree that all of us want to do all we can. But our own track record was awful, especially in those early years when expensive lawsuits were being covered up long before the very first article about protecting children came out. And members of our own Governing Body fought against printing articles and information on the subject. Just as in other organizations, we didn't want to admit that it was even possible in our own organization, because this would bring such reproach on Jehovah's name and organization. It would give opposers something to point to. My own father in his capacity as a congregation elder, counseled my sister to avoid going to the hospital after abuse by her husband to avoid bringing reproach on the congregation. "What if they asked you what happened, what are you going to tell them?" "What kind of witness would it give to the community if it got out that a minister in the congregation had to go to jail?" "Don't you think it would be more appropriate to try again, but be more humble and conforming and win him with a mild manner?" "Spending more time in prayer and study and service is surely the best counsel." 
    My sister came back to the congregation, but she was disfellowshipped for defying this counsel. (She said she would separate and NOT try to get back in her husband's good graces.) I agree that we can always say that it was her unrepentant attitude and anger at the counsel that got her disfellowshipped. I also agree that she was never told NOT to go to the authorities or to specifically LIE to the authorities who might ask her questions at the hospital. But she was definitely pressured for years not to go to authorities and professionals, and even to "lie" through omission of facts if she did go. And she was definitely punished for reacting negatively to the counsel and authority of the elders.
    I know about similar cases, and even of a case of child abuse that was covered up in the same way through not-so-subtle pressures to "do the right thing" when it comes to the issue of reproach and even "mandatory reporting." But the case of my sister, I know first-hand. I even offered to give my brother-in-law a taste of his own medicine, which was not the Christian thing to do, but I thought it was a pretty fair interpretation of Matthew 18:15 at the time.
    Another point to remember before we start putting our own organization on too high a pedestal here is that if you count the Catholic population and the reported cases in those districts in Australia and compare them to the population of Jehovah's Witnesses and the reported cases in the same districts, then you see that our problem might even be many times worse than the Catholics. I can't say that it really is worse, because this is also a factor of how accurately such accusations are reported. 
    Also, if you watched the videos from the previous ARC hearings, you might also be surprised to learn who the abusers were in several of the 1,000+ cases reported among Witnesses. I had heard that at least one of these abusers would be revealed in a separate case by November 2016, but that case is evidently under some kind of gag order, or otherwise delayed under some slow-moving wheels. So please strike what I said and forget I said anything about it. But I am almost certain that the plan is to engage some of these cases in public courts. (Partly because some lawyers involuntarily salivate when money is involved.) I don't think too many Australian Witnesses are holding their heads very high when the topic is brought up during witnessing activities.
  7. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Ann O'Maly in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    There is a ridiculous way to implement this and the report pointed that out. But there should be a minimum level of evidence that every person should be able to look for which makes child abuse suspected. For example:
    The child or young adult complains to ANYONE that someone touched them inappropriately and points out the places where he or she was touched. The child or young adult complains to ANYONE that they were forced to touch an adult inappropriately. There are signs of abuse or trauma actually seen by a parent or medical professional even when the child or young adult will not explain or cannot explain where these signs came from (blood, bruises, etc.) Believe it or not, even though those three points might seem obvious to you or me, legally they still only point to a "suspicion" of child abuse. And worse, every one of these OBVIOUS signs and complaints has been seen and heard by parents, guardians, school nurses, police, teachers, coaches, EMS, college presidents, etc., and yet persons in all these categories did not always report the suspected abuse. So the specter of unnecessary trauma should not cloud the reasonable implementation of mandated reporting. An inspection by a medical or trained professional need not be any more invasive in these situations than any other type of examination by a doctor. (And for that matter, parents should also be present even for doctors' examinations. The recent report on 60 Minutes of a famous gymnastics injury therapist should be kept in mind. He evidently got away with hundreds or even more than a thousand cases of child abuse, before enough children complained.)
  8. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Bible Speaks in He Mustered Up Boldness And Reasoned About The Scriptures   
    "He reasoned with them from the Scriptures."—Acts 17:2.              
    The account tells us that while in Thessalonica, Paul preached in the synagogue for three Sabbaths. Does this mean that his visit to the city lasted just three weeks? Not necessarily. 
    We do not know how soon after his arrival Paul first went to the synagogue. Further, Paul’s letters disclose that while in Thessalonica, he and his companions worked to support themselves. (1 Thess. 2:9; 2 Thess. 3:7, 8) 
    Also, during his stay, Paul twice received provisions from the brothers in Philippi. (Phil. 4:16) So his stay in Thessalonica was likely somewhat longer than three weeks.
    Having mustered up boldness to preach, Paul spoke to those assembled in the synagogue. According to his custom, “he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving by references that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying: ‘This is the Christ, this Jesus whom I am publishing to you.’” (Acts 17:2, 3) 
    Note that Paul did not seek to stir up the emotions of his listeners; he appealed to their minds. He knew that those who attended the synagogue were familiar with and respected the Scriptures. 
    What they lacked was understanding. Paul therefore reasoned, explained, and proved from the Scriptures that Jesus of Nazareth was the promised Messiah, or Christ.

  9. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Evacuated in What is the purest form of Christianity?   
    Question: 
    What is the purest form of Christianity? (@JWInsider) Answer:
    "The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world." (James 1:27: )
  10. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Well, it's all anecdotal and I don't pretend to be dropping the 11th Commandment. But IF you have been trained by Bible education, which can be found you know where, and IF your life has not been made so important so that your present demanding career makes it unthinkable to interrupt it for such a duty, you are more likely to provide personal care for your aging parents.
    Look, don't argue with me on this one because I will give up - you'll never see a white flag go up so fast. But I had some fonts lying around the house and I had to use them before they went bad so I used them here. Besides, as far as I'm concerned, if you want to go to college, go to college. If you get some peer-pressure heat because of it, just accept it as a price that must be paid. That's how it is with any human organization. Not everything goes your way. But you accept it because you know that the Lord's will can be magnified here on earth if his servants are organized, as opposed to as if each person is his own wandering planet.
    Nor should you be too quick to blow off the circuit overseer who said of his former fancy pants circuit that there were 100 that went to college and only 3 who remained in the truth. Atheistic, humanistic professors, sexually avant-garde students and faculty alike,  see your naive offspring coming along with stars in his/her eyes and say 'It's Game On!' just like I do with the Librarian whom I fear.
    And don't miss the organization's counsel, which arguably could be given more strongly, that it's not just what you should not do, but what you should. Prepare your youngster well ahead of time to choose from career paths available to him and learn what options are available and at what cost. If you are all thumbs yourself, make sure he knows that one can't make a living in all-thumbs. Or maybe it is given. Despite their counsel to familiarize yourself with whatever comes down the pipe, I am drawn to what primarily concerns me.
    I like CMP's point, too, that where he comes from, the ones who get to university are serious minded but the ones who take the easy stuff are riff-raff, generally speaking. It's not that way here. Here they just party and malign Trump and take absurd curriculum that has no practical application anywhere. But it is different where he is, apparently.
    Bernard Strawman pointed out that Tom Irregardless wouldn't use his word so much if he had some education. But Tom has focused on education that trains morally, the kind of education God's organization specializes in. You can always hire out for smarts when you need them.
     
     
  11. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    [Note: Several of the ideas presented below are not in accord with current Watch Tower publications.]
    Clearly, the overall purpose of Revelation is to show things that must shortly take place. The goal is to help Christians conquer through this final era of time (the last days) when they may face imminent death, persecution, long prison terms, or even a long life filled with temptation to join sinners or, perhaps, to merely leave the love they had at first, by not keeping that day "close in mind." Imminent.
    (Revelation 2:3, 4) 3 You are also showing endurance, and you have persevered for the sake of my name and have not grown weary. 4 Nevertheless, I hold this against you, that you have left the love you had at first.
    (Revelation 2:10) . . .Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.
    Christians in all ages must deal with the fact that we have but one lifetime, or less, before we are "instantly" and "immediately" in the presence of Jesus. Yet he could also return at any time in these last days, too, "interrupting" our lifetime. Hebrews starts out with the same phrase: "in these last days." Paul warned Timothy that the reason he would be seeing such problems in the congregation was because they were in the last days. Peter in Acts tells the crowd at Pentecost that the holy spirit's presence was because they were now in the last days. The letters of Peter and Jude warn Christians that this was the reason they were seeing ridiculers with their ridicule about the delay of the parousia, because this is what they were told to expect during the last days. Yet Peter also implied that the parousia might not begin for thousands of years, because each of those "last days" could be as much as 1,000 years in Jehovah's eyes.
    But as to the Revelation including a sweeping history of Christianity there is the following as evidence, from the very start of Revelation. Even before we can make use of Revelation 1:10 to claim that John was swept into some future "Lord's Day" we are given a setting that includes the past. Notice that Jesus had already proven himself to be the "The Faithful Witness." Notice that Jesus was already named: 
    (Revelation 1:5,6) . . .“the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.
    Revelation speaks of Jesus as the "Lamb" 29 times, referring back to 33 CE. That's more times than he is referred to as either "Jesus" or "Christ" combined!  Although the goal of the book is to show that the promises must shortly take place, it is also made up of familiar scenes that had already taken place, and were still in progress, as God's Kingdom by Christ Jesus went on conquering in the midst of his enemies. Note also that an historical sense is found even in the titles of Jesus and Jehovah in names like "Alpha and Omega" and "the First and the Last." Notice the sweep of history:
    (Revelation 1:4) . . .May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” . . .
    (Revelation 1:17-19) . . .I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of the Grave. 19 So write down the things you saw, and the things that are, and the things that will take place after these.
    In the past, various revelations had included a revealing of what was going on "behind the scenes" which gave Jehovah's people a sense that even if things seemed out of control on earth, there was a method and purpose behind it. Here are some examples of a revelation of something that went on in heaven to explain something that happened in the recent past:
    (1 Kings 22:19) 19 Mi·caiʹah then said: “Therefore, hear the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne and all the army of the heavens standing by him, to his right and to his left.
    Also in the book of Job, the "curtain is pulled back" so that the events in Job's life are explained by recent past and current events taking place in heaven.
    (Job 2:1) Afterward the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and Satan also entered among them to take his station before Jehovah.
    The vision of Stephen was a revealing of what was going on in heaven to prove to him that Jesus was indeed already standing at God's right hand.
    (Acts 7:55, 56) But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand, and he said: “Look! I see the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.”
    I'll give one example from Revelation, since we are referencing chapter 11. The first readers of Revelation were Christians who were about to be swept up into the effects of woes and plagues and tribulations, and they were dealing with the very recent trauma of a devastation on Jerusalem, an entire religious system of things, which was 1,000 times worse than our "9/11" in New York and D.C.  Revelation 11 appears to deal with this trauma by reminding the readers that Jesus had predicted it, by referring to Jesus words:
    (Luke 21:23, 24) . . .For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.
    (Revelation 11:1-4) . . .“Get up and measure the temple sanctuary of God and the altar and those worshipping in it. 2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months. 3 I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth.” 4 These are symbolized by the two olive trees and the two lampstands and are standing before the Lord of the earth.
    Early Christians would have had very little trouble, I think, identifying the point being made about the two lampstands, the two witnesses, and the two olive trees. Yet they knew that this woe would pass and would only prove to be a part of the ongoing evidence that Jehovah was in control, and all would be right with the world, in time.
    (Romans 11:13-26) . . Seeing that I am an apostle to the nations, . . . For if their being cast away means reconciliation for the world, what will the acceptance of them mean but life from the dead? . . . 17 However, if some of the branches were broken off and you, although being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became a sharer of the richness of the olive’s root, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. . . . That is true! For their lack of faith, they were broken off, but you are standing by faith. Do not be haughty, but be in fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Consider, therefore, God’s kindness and severity. There is severity toward those who fell, but toward you there is God’s kindness, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise, you too will be lopped off. . . . 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree that is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into the garden olive tree, how much more will these who are natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree! 25 For I do not want you to be unaware of this sacred secret, brothers, so that you do not become wise in your own eyes: A partial dulling of senses has come upon Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, 26 and in this manner all Israel will be saved. . . .
    Jerusalem's fall (their being cast away) was a time for both the witness to the nations (wild olive tree) and the witness to Israel (native olive tree) to carry on in sackcloth (partial dulling) for a time. But ultimately would result in life (life from the dead) for a full number of both. 
    These first readers of Revelation were also dealing with death and war and pestilence and food shortages and earthquakes. How could they "square" that with the fact that Jesus was already ruling from God's right hand? Chapter 6 gave an image of how Jesus was ruling and conquering in the midst of these enemies (including the last enemy death, of course).
    (Revelation 6:2) . . .and the one seated on it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went out conquering and to complete his conquest. Jesus begins his conquest from the first century, right alongside these death-dealing enemies. This was a perfect parallel to what Jesus had told them to expect in the first century while they anticipated his coming parousia.  (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21) If that wasn't clear enough to the readers, additional references to the Olivet Discourse were included as a reminder of his coming parousia:
    (Revelation 6:12, 13) . . .And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, 13 and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind drops its unripe figs.
    Yet, they had been reminded that they would still have to wait a while:
    (Revelation 6:11) . . .And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers . . .
    And of course, chapter 7 shows how this would turn out, using a symbolic way of presenting how the "number was filled" both of Israel (Romans 11:12) and of the nations (see Romans 11:25, quoted above). 
    (Romans 11:12) 12 Now if their [Israel's] false step means riches to the world and their decrease means riches to people of the nations, how much more will their full number mean!
    They were being reminded that the delay was nothing to worry about because it meant salvation for more persons:
    (2 Peter 3:14, 15) 14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace. 15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation. . .
    (Revelation 7:9, 10) 9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
    So I'm not saying we are wrong to read various parts of Revelation with a special meaning we give it for our own day, but we should not forget that they also had an urgent and special meaning for Christians throughout all ages.
  12. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    No. The idea was more of a mess than I thought at first. It's a humbling task, and I'm not cut out for it. Through my own small attempt, I could tell that Brother Jackson must have put some real effort into the same kind of task. I'm sure you felt that too. But I also felt that something prevented him from getting too pro-active about making it comprehensive.
  13. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Anna in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    Yup. As soon as I wrote that, a hundred different scenarios raced through my head, as you say, 50 shades of grey and some. This is what the whole child sexual abuse affair is about, 50 shades of grey. I should have perhaps clarified that and used a different description…..something like: most human beings hate the thought of a child being sexually abused.
    I agree with you totally of course. The problem is with the fact that it’s not that simple to identify sexual abuse. It’s not like murder, where we have an obvious victim, (a body), and obviously a murderer. But even then, in many cases, the murderer is not found. Without concrete proof, everyone is innocent…..until proved guilty. I remember following the Casey Anthony case, to me, all the signs were there that she killed her two year old daughter, but the Police could not prove it. So she got some prison time for lying, and now is free.
    By the way, did you ever manage to put together a draft of what you thought might be the best policy for us when handling child sexual abuse? I know we talked about it a while ago when the ARC first started. You had some ideas of what you thought should be done. I did too, but never put anything together. It looks like we will be seeing a new policy soon, come the hearing in March, and I wonder if it will look like anything we would have come up with….

     
  14. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    [Note: Several of the ideas presented below are not in accord with current Watch Tower publications.]
    Why? It's quite possible you are right, but the Scriptures seem to point away from a distant fulfillment in the future.
    Just for the record, I see no reason to deny Jesus' words here. Yes, it's true that the full destruction of Satan would come at a later date, but there is no reason to believe that Satan had not fallen based specifically on the accomplishment of Jesus' ministry. Jesus' ministry was for the very purpose of breaking the power of Satan, and that ministry was accomplished.
    Is there a scripture that says that this falling, or casting down of Satan from heaven was scheduled for some time far in the future?
    Satan's rule of sin was broken because Jehovah could now view sinners as if righteous. Men of goodwill now had a proper means of approach to God and a means, therefore, of taking back what Satan had taken away. Jesus took away the sin of the world. 
    A part of the symbolism about the power over Satan was the fact that powerful works performed by Jesus and his early disciples included proof positive that Jesus was conquering Satan's power. Jesus had given the disciples authority over the demons. But the primary accomplishment of his ministry was that Jesus saved mankind from the spiritually paralyzing effects of sin. Satan would still be here to tempt us and would still be the "god of this system" just as he was in 1815, 1915 and 2015. Clearly Satan's power over us was brought low, because, through Christ's ministry Christians now have power to conquer -- to get the mastery over sin. Satan lost his "rule" over us, even though he continued his rule over the world. We know from Hebrews that this ministry was fully accomplished at Jesus' death and resurrection. Note:
    (John 12:31-33) 31 Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And yet I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all sorts of men to myself.” 33 This he was really saying to indicate what sort of death he was about to die.
    (Hebrews 2:14) . . .so that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil,
    (John 14:30) 30 I will not speak with you much more, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has no hold on me.
    The spread of that Kingdom in 33 CE, starting at Pentecost was also a key part of the ministry of Jesus through the pouring out of the holy spirit:
    (John 16:8-11) . . .And when that one comes, [holy spirit] he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 first concerning sin, because they are not exercising faith in me; 10 then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer; 11 then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
    (Acts 26:17, 18) 17 And I will rescue you from this people and from the nations, to whom I am sending you 18 to open their eyes, to turn them from darkness to light and from the authority of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those sanctified by their faith in me.’
    And of course, this whole argument comes "full circle" again, explaining how the Kingdom is already at work:
    (Ephesians 2:1-6) 2 Furthermore, God made you alive, though you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3 Yes, among them we all at one time conducted ourselves in harmony with the desires of our flesh, carrying out the will of the flesh and of our thoughts, and we were naturally children of wrath just as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 made us alive together with the Christ, even when we were dead in trespasses—by undeserved kindness you have been saved. 6 Moreover, he raised us up together and seated us together in the heavenly places in union with Christ Jesus,
    Surely, it was in this same way that Satan was cast down knowing he had a short period of time, seeking to devour, just as he is depicted in Revelation 12:
    (1 Peter 5:8) . . .Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone.
    (Revelation 2:10) . . .Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.
    (Revelation 12:9-12) 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”
    In 2016, Satan was surely aware that his time was even shorter than it was in 1916, yet there is no specific evidence that Satan's anger was any less visceral during Nero's day, or back when Peter said that Satan was already walking about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone. Therefore, I would take Jesus at his word, and not place this event of Satan's falling or "casting out" as something that occurs thousands of years later.
  15. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    The issue of the "crown" is probably one of those issues that perfectly fits the point that Eoin made. By the way, I still agree that the argument you were making from Romans 4:17 will be important to the discussion, and the verses that you and Melinda applied to that argument are valid. I'm not dismissing it, even though I didn't think that Romans 4:17 was the right verse to find the foundation of that idea. But that was a trivial side point. Still, it made more sense to start with this idea that Eoin presented, because it is a better bridge for resolving the apparent contradiction that Jesus begins a kingship in 33 and the kingdom also comes at a later date, too. As Eoin put it, this was not an "either-or" situation. 
    That said, a king receiving a crown even after he has been declared the king is possible even among human kings, and likely would provide a scenario that indicates the exact idea of a special occasion when the Kingdom achieves a special milestone. This is exactly the idea behind "Jehovah becoming King" even though it was obvious he is already an eternal King.
    You did leave out a mention of a crown that I think is crucial to getting a truer picture:
    (Hebrews 1:2-4,8; 2:5,9) 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs. . . . 8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. . . . 2:5 For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking. . . .9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death,
    I believe our traditional teaching makes it too easy for us to miss the point that even words like "subject" "obeisance" and "Christ" [Messiah] were also references to kingship. In Jesus' day, the term Christ (Messiah) was exclusively tied to the royal heir of King David, of the tribe of Judah. See Peter's speech in Acts 2, for example. Or, more simply:
    (Matthew 22:42) “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him: “David’s.. . ."
    The book of Hebrews clearly includes a commentary on Psalm 110 and appropriately expands on the glorious royal imagery of a throne, a crown, a scepter, glorious garments, and royal "subjects" (angels subject to him as ministers, doing obeisance to him). That's the basis of the first two chapters. Later chapters explain how this king can also be a priest according to the manner of Melchizedek based on Psalm 110:4. It was already understood from chapters one and two that Jesus was a King. So here's what Hebrews says about Melchizedek:
    (Hebrews 7:2, 14) . . .First, his name is translated “King of Righteousness,” and then also king of Saʹlem, that is, “King of Peace.” . . . 14 For it is clear that our Lord has descended from Judah, yet Moses said nothing about priests coming from that tribe.
    So it was clear that Jesus was king, but less clear how "Scripturally" he could also be a priest. What is the conclusion after the first few chapters of Hebrews show that this King is also a priest?
    (Hebrews 8:1)  Now this is the main point of what we are saying: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
    I wanted to mention that, based on the idea from Romans 4:17 (or elsewhere), that it really doesn't matter so much about the exact chronology of saying that the Kingdom was among them in Jesus' day, or when he sat down with God as his throne in 33 CE, or when he again arrives to be seen in the Kingdom "present" or Kingdom "coming." But based on the language of Hebrews 1 through 8 for example, it doesn't seem right to minimize the kingdom in 33 and then highlight the Kingdom as being so much more important at a later date. To me the question boils down to whether we really need to minimize the meaning of Matthew 28:18 (among other verses). In effect, we say that Jesus didn't really mean to use the word "all" here:
    (Matthew 28:18) . . .: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.
    And for further consideration:
    (John 17:1-5) . . .Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, 2 just as you have given him authority over all flesh [authority over all mankind, NWT footnote], so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him. 3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.
  16. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    No. You are not rambling. Your points make perfect sense and show good heart.
    Look, there are some who are genuinely aghast at child abuse and participate with good thoughts. But there are also some liars whose concern over chlld sexual abuse is probably not a sham, but it is clearly secondary to their greater goal. They use it to further that goal.
    It's greatly time and energy consuming to battle the liars on what is a here today - gone tomorrow internet thread. They're all welcomed here, which I find - odd. Unless I am up for a brawl, I, like you, will not do it. (But sometimes I am up for a brawl)
    Eventually, it's all going to go against us. We know that. Jesus followers will be hailed before courts. Why? So they can receive Good Citizenship plaques? Or will it be so as to defend themselves before persons 'lyingly saying every sort of wicked thing' about them? (Matthew 5:11) But the bad guys will always win in this system of things. When Jesus appeared before Pilate, he didn't sweet talk his way out of it, did he?
  17. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Melinda Mills in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    “So, this particular idea of "waiting" does not refer to inactivity, or waiting until he becomes an actively ruling King.” – JWInsider
    A very interesting point.
    ======
    (Would also like to put a small bit of seasoning in the pot. See if it is tasty.)
    Heaven is not a place of inactivity
    I would like to posit some of the things Jesus did in 33CE and thereafter. .
    (John 5:16, 17) . ..For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things during the Sabbath. 17 But he answered them: “My Father has kept working until now, and I keep working.”
    Jesus continued his work in heaven; the anointed too continue their work in heaven.
    Some of Jesus’ work from heaven prior to millennium rule
    So his work includes empowering his disciples with holy spirit (Pentecost), drawing people, converting them (John 14:6) (Saul – Acts 9) and appointing directly and indirectly, directing (“come over into Macedonia and help us”), overseeing, settling issues (Acts 15), counseling, commending, revealing the future, etc. (Rev 2-3; Book of Revelation), preserving and disseminating the Bible, preserving the wheat-like Christians, giving insight into Bible prophecies, inspecting his spiritual temple, restoring true worship; progressive teaching and training (John 16:12); legally establishing the good news by means of court victories, subduing nations to get preaching done globally; commissioning angels directing preaching work (Rev 14:6)
    Matthew 28:19, 20) Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
    (John 14:15-17) 15 “If you love me, you will observe my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.
    (John 16:12, 13) 12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. 13 However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own initiative, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things to come.
    (John 14:6) Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (Acts 9:14, 15) . . .” 15 But the Lord said to him: “Go! because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel.
    (1 Timothy 2:7) For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.
    Anointed ones who are resurrected instantaneously also work
    (Revelation 14:13) 13 And I heard a voice out of heaven say, “Write: Happy are the dead who die in union with the Lord from this time onward. Yes, says the spirit, let them rest from their labors, for the things they did go right with them.”
    *** re chap. 30 p. 211 pars. 20 “Babylon the Great Has Fallen!” *** “… Afterward, those of the anointed ones who die during the Lord’s day are promised a special privilege. Their resurrection to spirit life in heaven is instantaneous, “in the twinkling of an eye.” (1 Corinthians 15:52) How marvelous this is! And their works of righteousness continue right on in the heavenly realm”.
  18. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Melinda Mills in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    I started a search this morning but couldn't find anything. Glad JWI found the notes and the discussion is continuing.
  19. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to ComfortMyPeople in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    Your argument (I mean, the Bible argument) is very solid. Christ is not waiting -inactively- until the end of the millennium.

    So, perhaps, the idea you and Eoin have pointed out, that Jesus Christ “has begun to reign” or “become king” could refer to some special moments in the development of God’s purposes: Da 7, Re 12 and so.

    Thanks for sharing these valuable thoughts!

     
  20. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in What is the purest form of Christianity?   
    Sometimes I have felt sorry for the majority of the population of the world, who (over the centuries) have never even heard of Christianity, not to mention that, even today, it's possible that most of the people on the earth have still really never heard of Jehovah's Witnesses. Of course, we still trust that Jehovah and Christ have taken all this into consideration for the time of judgment and, perhaps more importantly, throughout the time of resurrection. So this is not about who will survive Armageddon, and who won't; it's merely about the wonderful advantages of knowing about the teachings of Jesus and the freedom to make changes in your life based on taking these teachings to heart. Most of the world may not have the freedom to take advantage of true Christianity even if they have heard of it. Another large portion of the earth has heard about historical Christianity, and wouldn't go anywhere near it because of its terrible reputation for violence, deception and theft of resources. They won't give it the benefit of the doubt.
    But even for persons who fall into that last category, there is hope that many more will benefit from exposure to Christian ideas and ideals -- even under the worst of circumstances. The latest study edition of the Watchtower (May 2017) nailed it in the timely article "Helping 'Foreign Residents' to 'Serve Jehovah With Rejoicing.'" Note:
    *** w17 May p. 3 par. 2 Helping “Foreign Residents” to “Serve Jehovah With Rejoicing” ***
    Worldwide, refugees who have fled their homes because of war or persecution now number over 65,000,000—the highest ever recorded.
    The footnote expands on that idea:
    *** w17 May p. 3 Helping “Foreign Residents” to “Serve Jehovah With Rejoicing” ***
    In this article, we use the term “refugees” to denote those who have been displaced—whether across national borders or within their own country—by armed conflict, persecution, or disaster. According to the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees), today “1 in every 113 people” worldwide is “forcibly displaced.”
    Nearly 1% of the world's population!
    Granted that this article is primarily about how we treat our spiritual brothers and sisters who are refugees. And I know that some have criticized us for focusing almost exclusively on other Witnesses, instead of ALL persons. (Even though I'd guess that non-JWs don't criticize each other for choosing their favorite charities.) Scripturally, there is nothing wrong with primarily taking care (materially) of our family, and after that those "related to us in the faith." And I think it's also true that even giving primarily to Witness refugees, will still give a good witness that some groups are much better than others at 'taking care of their own.'
    (1 Timothy 5:7, 8) . . .. 8 Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.
    (Galatians 6:10) 10 So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith.
    One thing I like about the article is the balance. The bulk of the article is about ways in which we as JWs can help out refugees in material practical ways. Of course, there are a few paragraphs on spiritual support, too. In the past we've seen the same basic idea presented, but often with only a generic statement about material support and very few practical ideas for what we can do materially. This article talks about helping persons not just with providing food, clothes, shelter, but also with transportation, government paperwork, learning the language, applying for jobs, driver licenses, etc.
    I think a lot of persons will also appreciate that the paragraphs on "spiritual support" included emotional support with spiritual support. I thought these two paragraphs were especially useful:
    *** w17 May pp. 6-7 pars. 15-16 Helping “Foreign Residents” to “Serve Jehovah With Rejoicing” ***
    15 More than material assistance, refugees need spiritual and emotional support. (Matt. 4:4) Elders can help by obtaining literature in the language of the refugees and by helping them contact brothers who speak their language. Many refugees have been torn away from their tight-knit extended families, communities, and congregations. They need to sense Jehovah’s love and compassion among their fellow Christians. Otherwise, they may be drawn to unbelieving relatives or compatriots who can relate to their culture and experiences. (1 Cor. 15:33) By making them feel fully accepted in the congregation, we have the privilege to share with Jehovah in “protecting the foreign residents.”—Ps. 146:9.
    16 As with young Jesus and his family, refugees may not have the option of returning to their homeland as long as their oppressors remain in power. Further, as notes Lije, “many parents who saw family members raped and murdered cannot bear to bring their children back to where those tragedies occurred.” To help those who have experienced such trauma, brothers in lands receiving refugees need to have “fellow feeling, brotherly affection, tender compassion, and humility.” (1 Pet. 3:8) Persecution has caused some refugees to become withdrawn, and they may feel ashamed to talk about their suffering, especially in the presence of their children. Ask yourself, ‘If I were in their position, how would I like to be treated?’—Matt. 7:12
    The article reminds us that we should be known for being concerned with good works, not just the preaching work. This fits a lot of ideas that have been mentioned in the recent past showing how sometimes doing good for persons in a material way, really is a spiritual work, and can be related to our sacred service. 
  21. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to ComfortMyPeople in Is Jehovah's refence to Himself as a King anthropomorphic?   
    You (JWI and Eoin) are absolutely right! Regarding this, I like the conceptual design selected in our “Revelation…climax” book, where the heavenly Jerusalem is drawn as a modern city, with skyscrapers, do you remember? I conveys the idea of complexity and advanced organization, as in a modern city. And this has scriptural base: (Heb. 11:10) “For he was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is God.”

  22. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Anna in Is Jehovah's refence to Himself as a King anthropomorphic?   
    It’s impossible for us physical beings to even imagine what it’s like to be a spirit being. Those who will go to heaven won’t know until they get there. Obviously it’s a totally foreign dimension to us, hence anthropomorphic expressions are helpful. However most of Christendom’s adherents imagine heaven like what physical paradise earth will be; trees, streams, mountains etc.One of my Bible studies, a scientist, knew that a spirit universe couldn’t be anything like a physical universe. It’s scientifically impossible. She told me that she could never understand how people could think that when they went to heaven they would be playing cards with their grandpa.....and the harp. I guess she forgot that not everyone thinks like a scientist. The strangest thing of all is that the Mormons believe that the physical person, literally flesh and blood, will go to heaven....(and own a planet) I don't think even the Catholics think that, but they do believe they will have wings
  23. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from SuzA in Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community   
    @TrueTom   You make some very valid points in your post. I wouldn't argue against any of it.
    There is also considerable overlap between bullying and sexual abuse. Sexual abuse often becomes just another type of bullying, and those in the "herd" who have been weakened emotionally by either/or will often find themselves targeted (picked off) by abusers (predators) for the rest of their lives. After looking at 4,500 cases of reported sexual abuse in the Catholic Church between 1950 and 2015, (and looking at more statistically significant reporting especially since 1985) The Australian Royal Commission (ARC) reported that about 7% of Catholic priests have been accused. But it was lower in the Catholic schools run by nuns dealing with children, and much higher in the places where males in authority dealt with children (average age was 10 and 11). 30% of the crimes were committed by Catholic "brothers," (those usually assigned to various "orders") another 30% of the crimes were by priests themselves, and 5% by Catholic "sisters" (generally, nuns). It was highest in the "Order of St. John of God" where a full 40% of those in authority there were accused of child abuse. The reason, it shouldn't surprise us, is that these men worked specifically with emotionally disturbed children. Easy picking! One person I listened to on the BBC made it clear that any organization anywhere in the world that had such a high rate of accused and convicted child abusers would be considered a "criminal organization."
    I agree that all of us want to do all we can. But our own track record was awful, especially in those early years when expensive lawsuits were being covered up long before the very first article about protecting children came out. And members of our own Governing Body fought against printing articles and information on the subject. Just as in other organizations, we didn't want to admit that it was even possible in our own organization, because this would bring such reproach on Jehovah's name and organization. It would give opposers something to point to. My own father in his capacity as a congregation elder, counseled my sister to avoid going to the hospital after abuse by her husband to avoid bringing reproach on the congregation. "What if they asked you what happened, what are you going to tell them?" "What kind of witness would it give to the community if it got out that a minister in the congregation had to go to jail?" "Don't you think it would be more appropriate to try again, but be more humble and conforming and win him with a mild manner?" "Spending more time in prayer and study and service is surely the best counsel." 
    My sister came back to the congregation, but she was disfellowshipped for defying this counsel. (She said she would separate and NOT try to get back in her husband's good graces.) I agree that we can always say that it was her unrepentant attitude and anger at the counsel that got her disfellowshipped. I also agree that she was never told NOT to go to the authorities or to specifically LIE to the authorities who might ask her questions at the hospital. But she was definitely pressured for years not to go to authorities and professionals, and even to "lie" through omission of facts if she did go. And she was definitely punished for reacting negatively to the counsel and authority of the elders.
    I know about similar cases, and even of a case of child abuse that was covered up in the same way through not-so-subtle pressures to "do the right thing" when it comes to the issue of reproach and even "mandatory reporting." But the case of my sister, I know first-hand. I even offered to give my brother-in-law a taste of his own medicine, which was not the Christian thing to do, but I thought it was a pretty fair interpretation of Matthew 18:15 at the time.
    Another point to remember before we start putting our own organization on too high a pedestal here is that if you count the Catholic population and the reported cases in those districts in Australia and compare them to the population of Jehovah's Witnesses and the reported cases in the same districts, then you see that our problem might even be many times worse than the Catholics. I can't say that it really is worse, because this is also a factor of how accurately such accusations are reported. 
    Also, if you watched the videos from the previous ARC hearings, you might also be surprised to learn who the abusers were in several of the 1,000+ cases reported among Witnesses. I had heard that at least one of these abusers would be revealed in a separate case by November 2016, but that case is evidently under some kind of gag order, or otherwise delayed under some slow-moving wheels. So please strike what I said and forget I said anything about it. But I am almost certain that the plan is to engage some of these cases in public courts. (Partly because some lawyers involuntarily salivate when money is involved.) I don't think too many Australian Witnesses are holding their heads very high when the topic is brought up during witnessing activities.
  24. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from OtherSheep in Is Jehovah's refence to Himself as a King anthropomorphic?   
    @Eoin Joyce Wow! I was just thinking about this same point last night for the current thread on Christ's power and authority. In order for us to get a sense of Jehovah's majesty, there must be some extent to which we need certain images in our head, like a crown, a throne, royal garb, a scepter, etc. Jehovah must know that these images are helpful to understand his Sovereignty. The images of a kingdom --with all the glorious splendor of a central palace, a sizable realm, along with an innumerable entourage of soldiers, servants, slaves, messengers at the king's command-- probably carries about the same meaning from the time of the earliest empires until now.
    Clearly there is an element of anthropomorphism in the imagery, because a perfect spirit being needs nothing physical.
    But the fact that Jehovah is a Sovereign or King is important to the concept of his Sovereignty and Kingdom. That Jehovah is at the top of a heavenly hierarchy and is all-powerful is conveyed immediately with these images.
    As Jesus is also a heavenly spirit creature, the same would be true of his Kingdom, too. Obviously, many of the disciples had trouble "spiritualizing" some of the concepts about God's Kingdom through Christ. They considered the physical seat of the Kingdom to be earthly Jerusalem, rather than the Jerusalem above. He spoke of his Father's house as having many mansions, but he also had to remind them that hierarchical positions in that kingdom were not given the same meaning that they might have on earth. Heaven is a place "not made with hands."
    Clearly, the same goes for the term "Bride of Christ" too. In heaven, where "in the resurrection there is neither male or female," Jesus marries a good number of "male virgins." Marriage carries with it the idea of union, love, closeness, loyalty, and an unbreakable bond. The physical concepts of marriage do not apply.
    Therefore, even terms like "Father" and "Son" carry an element of anthropomorphism.
  25. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in When Did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power? Revisited   
    I'm sure you are right. About the entrenched dendrites, that is. It's a very rational-sounding scenario. I also find it very appealing. Jesus is appointed, but told to sit and wait. Then 1,881 years later, he stands and begins ruling. It's as if we really can no longer imagine that a King can actually rule while sitting down on a throne (even though it's the way Jehovah is depicted when He rules as King). We have this idea entrenched that Jesus can't really begin ruling, for real, until he's allowed to stand up. It makes sense as long as we can think of Jesus as a child whose father just told him to sit there and be quiet until he tells you it's OK to stand up.
    But that's kind of a "smart-aleck" reason and carries very little weight with any of us. A better reason to break away from our traditional thinking is found in the Bible itself. It's a fairly quick process:
    We have to remind ourselves why Jesus is "waiting." We find the answer in the same verse that gives us the "waiting" idea in the first place: (Hebrews 10:12, 13) But this man offered one sacrifice for sins for all time and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on waiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet.
    So Jesus is waiting from the time he sat down at the right hand of God. (I assume you agree this was in 33 C.E.) But for how long was he waiting? Until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet. And how long would that last? Obviously, until the last enemy death is brought to nothing. (I assume you agree that this is most likely at the end of the thousand-year reign, and I assume you believe that the thousand-year reign is still future.)
    (1 Corinthians 15:24-28) 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
    (Revelation 20:14, 15) 14 And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.
    (Revelation 20:4-6) . . .And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.
    Therefore, Jesus is still waiting until his enemies, including death, are made a footstool for his feet. He is waiting until the appropriate time when all is finished, and he can "hand over the Kingdom to his God and Father."
    So, this particular idea of "waiting" does not refer to inactivity, or waiting until he becomes an actively ruling King. I would think it might be something like U.S. President Abraham Lincoln actively sending men into a "Civil War," yet at the same time also waiting until the war would be over. According to Paul, "sitting at God's right hand" is the equivalent of "ruling as king."
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