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JW Insider

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  1. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in Latest Info on JW.org Ramapo Audio Video Production Center   
    For anyone not aware of the context, check out this site owned by jw.org:
    https://www.jw-avcenter.org/
    I don't actually know the latest. But I do know someone who knows a couple who just got sent home (unexpectedly) from their work assignment on the project. The surprise was based, I think, on delays. Covid-19 may have played a part in meetings with the town of Ramapo, or supply chains, or whatever.
    My son was interested in the solar and geo-thermal projects which were part of the plan (see the site above). He's already been involved in several solar projects, and one is paired with a geo-thermal project, also in upstate NY.
    http://www.ramapo.org/page/news-7/news/information-related-to-the-watchtower-matter-455.html
    If the site is up to date, then little has been documented about anything since May 2021. Maybe that's OK, but I hadn't heard any updates for a while, and was concerned about the delay I just heard about.
    5/26/2021  Presentation to Town Board 5/25/2021 PROCEDURE FOR WATCHTOWER PUBLIC HEARINGS 5/10/2021 Public Hearing Notice for DEIS, Zoning, and Comprehensive Plan Update 4/28/2021 Draft Environmental Impact Statement Appendices 4/28/2021 Draft Environmental Impact Statement 4/28/2021 Notice of Complete Draft Environmental Impact Statement and SEQRA Hearing 12/9/2020 Final Scope for Watchtower DEIS issued by Lead Agency on 12/9/2020 10/16/2020 Comments on Draft Scoping Document 9/23/2020 Informational Meeting Presentation 9/10/2020 SEQRA Notice 2 Resolutions Adopting Positive Declaration and Extending Public Comment Period  8/12/2020 Positive Declaration 8/12/2020 FEAF Part 1 FEAF Part 2  8/12/2020 Zoning Petition Concept Site Plan  Draft Scoping Outline 8/5/2020
  2. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TheWorldNewsOrg in My new favorite telescope: Celestron 6SE. Tonight's debut and review.   
    I look forward to seeing some stunning pictures shared 😉
     
  3. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Mic Drop in My new favorite telescope: Celestron 6SE. Tonight's debut and review.   
    A few weeks ago, I mentioned to my wife and kids that I found a person on craigslist selling a $900 Celestron 6SE telescope for $400-something and I offered him $300 to see what he might say.  He said he couldn't get the motorized finder and computerized mechanism to work, but that the lens/mirror/scope/accessories were in perfect shape and never really used. He sent pictures and agreed on $350.
    Then I was embarrassed, and actually not that happy that I had to drop the deal because my 3 kids all quickly pitched in and got me a new one from B&H Photo. 
    Well, it got its space debut tonight since it's clear, not too cold, and all my kids and two grand-kids were over at the house. It was an easy setup, even though it's a lot heavier than anything we've had before. (What we had before was a`cheap model we got for the kids when they were actually kids. And that cheap one was like one I had when I was a kid 50-some years ago.)
    So this one was quite a different experience for me. If I had taken the time I could have aligned it with just 3 sky objects and I could then punch in names or coordinates of up to 40,000 stars and galaxies and it would automatically point me right to them and keep them tracked as the earth turns and they move across the sky. But the grand-kids couldn't stay up too late and I figured it would be quicker to just manually aim with the side-scope and go. Turns out that the thing is too big to move around manually at small sky objects when the tripod is on soft ground and grass.
    Long story short, I'm no longer angry that they spent extra to get a new, fully-working, automated telescope. Even though I didn't set up the automation yet, I was still able to use the remote for easy manual movement up, down, left, and right in small increments. This made it a breeze to point at something big like the moon and then use the remote to slowly scan the sky for new starts and planets.
    We started this at only 8:30pm when the sky was still bluish instead of black and we also have some street-lights that can make visibility in the telescope less than idea. But it was still picking up thousands of stars we couldn't see with our unaided eyes.
    The moon was bright and gorgeous, and I was happily satisfied that everyone got a chance to see the craters and hills so clearly. But then I maneuvered with the remote quite a distance to the right and Jupiter with 4 moons were as clear as day. Then about half that distance again to the right and down a bit we saw Saturn and you could distinguish the separation in the rings. Perfect stargazing night, and we didn't need to stay out past 9:30.
    Next time, I'll hook it up for some clusters, galaxies, nebulae, etc.
  4. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to TrueTomHarley in Rare video footage of Judge Rutherford at Beth-Sarim San Diego CA.   
    Huh. A year or so ago I reviewed footage of the Tulsa riots. It surfaced in response to then-currant racial tensions, and it was new to me.
    In the backdrop of city footage, there was a large billboard of Rutherford. Now I know why.
  5. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Thinking in Rare video footage of Judge Rutherford at Beth-Sarim San Diego CA.   
    As you may have already known @Space Merchant there is a bit more context here:
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-october-2021/1921-One-Hundred-Years-Ago/
    On Tuesday, May 31, 1921, what came to be called the Tulsa Race Massacre erupted in Tulsa, Oklahoma, U.S.A., after a black man was jailed and charged with assaulting a white woman. When a mob of more than 1,000 white men clashed with a smaller group of black men, the fighting spread quickly to the black neighborhood of Greenwood, where more than 1,400 homes and businesses were looted and burned. The official death toll was 36, but the actual number may have been in the hundreds.
    Brother Richard J. Hill, a black Bible Student and resident of Greenwood, related what happened: “On the night of the riot, we had our Bible study class as usual. After the class was over, we heard shooting downtown. We went to bed listening to it.” By Wednesday morning, June 1, the situation had worsened. “Some folks came and stated that if we wanted protection, we had better go to Convention Hall at once.” So Brother Hill along with his wife and five children fled to Tulsa’s Convention Hall. There, an estimated 3,000 black men and women were housed by the National Guard, who had been called in to restore order.
    About the same time, Brother Arthur Claus, who was white, made a courageous decision. “When I heard that rioting squads were running about throughout Greenwood, looting and setting fire to homes, I decided to check on my dear friend, Brother Hill.”

    Using The Harp of God, Arthur Claus taught a study class of 14 children
    Arriving at Brother Hill’s home, he encountered a white neighbor holding a rifle. The neighbor, also a friend of Brother Hill’s, assumed that Arthur was one of the rioters. “Why are you in this man’s yard?” he shouted.
    “Had I given him an unsatisfactory answer, he would have shot me,” Arthur recalled. “I assured him that I was Brother Hill’s friend and that I had been to his home many times.” Arthur and the neighbor successfully protected the property against the looters.
    Soon Arthur discovered that Brother Hill and his family were at Convention Hall. Arthur was told that black people could not leave there without an order signed by General Barrett, the officer in charge. Arthur related: “It was a real task to get to see the general. When I told him my plans, he asked: ‘Will you watch over this family and take care of their needs?’ Naturally, I heartily agreed.”
    With the order in hand, Arthur rushed to Convention Hall. He presented it to an officer who exclaimed: “Why, this is signed by the general himself! Do you know that you are the first person to take anyone from this place all day?” Brother Hill and his family were soon located. All of them crowded into Arthur’s car and headed home.
    “All of us stood equal among God’s dedicated people”
    Brother Claus made sure that Brother Hill and his family were safe. His example of fearless brotherhood had a good effect on others. Arthur related: “The neighbor who helped protect the Hill’s property drew closer to the truth. And a number of people got interested in the Kingdom because they saw that there were no racial barriers, that all of us stood equal among God’s dedicated people.”
  6. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Thinking in Rare video footage of Judge Rutherford at Beth-Sarim San Diego CA.   
    A blogger here has a picture of Sister Claus where apparently her husband is obscured in the photo.
    (Not important to this topic, but I was baptized in Tulsa in 1967, and got bit by a dog while out in door-to-door service there. (Age 10.) Somehow, the police showed up almost instantly, and I remember my brother and I talking the police out of calling animal services to have the animal put down. The householder was crying because the police were insistent.) 
    http://reddirtimports.blogspot.com/2012/04/is-that-poster-of-judge-rutherford.html
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IP7rvcl80So/T2ar7XDsyjI/AAAAAAAAABc/qAVbljkWR1I/s760/South%2BUnit.jpg
    The other pictures include an article from a Tulsa paper advertising Rutherford's speech which (as @Space Merchant already mentioned) had actually happened on Monday, just prior to the major part of the riot. Notice as an aside that Tulsa had a population of 70,000 and it was promised that "thousands" of persons from Tulsa, if they lived another 4 years, would never die.  (Larger cities like Pittsburgh were given "tens of thousands" and even larger cities like NYC were given "hundreds of thousands.)



  7. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Space Merchant in Rare video footage of Judge Rutherford at Beth-Sarim San Diego CA.   
    A blogger here has a picture of Sister Claus where apparently her husband is obscured in the photo.
    (Not important to this topic, but I was baptized in Tulsa in 1967, and got bit by a dog while out in door-to-door service there. (Age 10.) Somehow, the police showed up almost instantly, and I remember my brother and I talking the police out of calling animal services to have the animal put down. The householder was crying because the police were insistent.) 
    http://reddirtimports.blogspot.com/2012/04/is-that-poster-of-judge-rutherford.html
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IP7rvcl80So/T2ar7XDsyjI/AAAAAAAAABc/qAVbljkWR1I/s760/South%2BUnit.jpg
    The other pictures include an article from a Tulsa paper advertising Rutherford's speech which (as @Space Merchant already mentioned) had actually happened on Monday, just prior to the major part of the riot. Notice as an aside that Tulsa had a population of 70,000 and it was promised that "thousands" of persons from Tulsa, if they lived another 4 years, would never die.  (Larger cities like Pittsburgh were given "tens of thousands" and even larger cities like NYC were given "hundreds of thousands.)



  8. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in Rare video footage of Judge Rutherford at Beth-Sarim San Diego CA.   
    As you may have already known @Space Merchant there is a bit more context here:
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-october-2021/1921-One-Hundred-Years-Ago/
    On Tuesday, May 31, 1921, what came to be called the Tulsa Race Massacre erupted in Tulsa, Oklahoma, U.S.A., after a black man was jailed and charged with assaulting a white woman. When a mob of more than 1,000 white men clashed with a smaller group of black men, the fighting spread quickly to the black neighborhood of Greenwood, where more than 1,400 homes and businesses were looted and burned. The official death toll was 36, but the actual number may have been in the hundreds.
    Brother Richard J. Hill, a black Bible Student and resident of Greenwood, related what happened: “On the night of the riot, we had our Bible study class as usual. After the class was over, we heard shooting downtown. We went to bed listening to it.” By Wednesday morning, June 1, the situation had worsened. “Some folks came and stated that if we wanted protection, we had better go to Convention Hall at once.” So Brother Hill along with his wife and five children fled to Tulsa’s Convention Hall. There, an estimated 3,000 black men and women were housed by the National Guard, who had been called in to restore order.
    About the same time, Brother Arthur Claus, who was white, made a courageous decision. “When I heard that rioting squads were running about throughout Greenwood, looting and setting fire to homes, I decided to check on my dear friend, Brother Hill.”

    Using The Harp of God, Arthur Claus taught a study class of 14 children
    Arriving at Brother Hill’s home, he encountered a white neighbor holding a rifle. The neighbor, also a friend of Brother Hill’s, assumed that Arthur was one of the rioters. “Why are you in this man’s yard?” he shouted.
    “Had I given him an unsatisfactory answer, he would have shot me,” Arthur recalled. “I assured him that I was Brother Hill’s friend and that I had been to his home many times.” Arthur and the neighbor successfully protected the property against the looters.
    Soon Arthur discovered that Brother Hill and his family were at Convention Hall. Arthur was told that black people could not leave there without an order signed by General Barrett, the officer in charge. Arthur related: “It was a real task to get to see the general. When I told him my plans, he asked: ‘Will you watch over this family and take care of their needs?’ Naturally, I heartily agreed.”
    With the order in hand, Arthur rushed to Convention Hall. He presented it to an officer who exclaimed: “Why, this is signed by the general himself! Do you know that you are the first person to take anyone from this place all day?” Brother Hill and his family were soon located. All of them crowded into Arthur’s car and headed home.
    “All of us stood equal among God’s dedicated people”
    Brother Claus made sure that Brother Hill and his family were safe. His example of fearless brotherhood had a good effect on others. Arthur related: “The neighbor who helped protect the Hill’s property drew closer to the truth. And a number of people got interested in the Kingdom because they saw that there were no racial barriers, that all of us stood equal among God’s dedicated people.”
  9. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Rare video footage of Judge Rutherford at Beth-Sarim San Diego CA.   
    The video was shown at Bethel to the entire family, and I don't think it would have been shown if those who made that decision to show it, thought that it definitely showed him in a drunken condition. However, there are at least two other pictures of Rutherford that show him in a condition that is almost the definition of what we would expect a drunk to look like.
    But Brother Rutherford evidently did [allegedly] suffer from alcoholism, and it was not always apparent when he was under the influence. Hayden Covington, the Society's attorney, has admitted this to others, and even to relatives of mine. Of course, Hayden Covington, was himself an admitted alcoholic, who was disfellowshipped for related behavior. So his claims might be biased. On the other hand, the elder who was my own table head at Bethel said the same about Rutherford, and much more. Another friend of mine from Bethel, Arthur Worsley, Brother Swingle's roommate before Lyman married Crystal, has admitted that he lied under oath to protect Rutherford out of fear of being kicked out of Bethel at the Olin Moyle trial.
    (The previous Society attorney before Covington was Olin Moyle, who felt it necessary to write a letter to Rutherford about abusive behavior, and even complained that Rutherford had been making arrangements to illegally bring in liquor from Canada during Prohibition. When Rutherford went public about Moyle in the pages of the Watchtower, where Rutherford railed against Moyle as an "evil slave," the case finally went to court, where Rutherford lost and had to pay Moyle $30,000 - reduced to $15,000 in an appeal in 1944. An anti-Moyle resolution was even adopted at the 1941 St. Louis assembly naming Olin Moyle as an "evil slave.")
    Don't know if the booklet from the 1930's is related to Rutherford's alleged alcoholism, but it is titled "Prohibition and the League of Nations - Born of God or the Devil, Which?" Rutherford had spoken out against liquor prohibition as "born from the Devil" as far back as 1924 or earlier. 
  10. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Srecko Sostar in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    At the very beginning of my comment, I have to notice how intensely you have given down votes to a large number of my comments since your name appeared on the forum. Now for the second time you call me a friend and even more, dear friend. I don’t mind either way of communicating. But friend, let me say a few words about what you wrote.
    The example from the desert and the example of Jerusalem have one thing in common when it comes to the time period of these events. Both events culminated in a short period, in just a few decades. As for the people in the desert, the report sets the time at 40 years, and as for Jerusalem, from Jesus ’words uttered in 33 CE to 70 CE, 37 years have passed.
    Well we see, when WTJWorg today, draws parallels and interpretations then it has obviously lost sight of the fact that the representative/s of each generation from both examples was/were at the beginning and end of the one and same event. There is no so called "overlap" in WTJWorg sense of meaning. Today’s doctrine of the “overlapping generation” that JWs preach, to themselves for the most part, has gone completely beyond the time frame of the biblical examples you cited. 
    Why I emphasized the word today. Because WTJWorg has in the past announced Armageddon within a small number of years (one or two, three decades). Today, with the "overlapping generation", they are trying to get out of his own theology, which they imposed so strongly in the past. But again, they limited themselves in time frame, as it is hard for them to admit that Armageddon may not come for the next 50-100 years either. If they talked about it publicly in that way, they would be left without most of the membership, which is now in the organization. Well, they again limited themselves in time to two overlapping generations. Fortunately for them, the term they invented will give future WTJWorg theologians the opportunity to juggle terminology and a new interpretation for future generations of JW members.
    The behavior of humanity does not encourage people to look to the future with hope, we agree. But how far can that go? If God wants to save the innocent and from destroying the planet earth, he does not have to wait for the future. It could have done this many times already in the 20th century.., and not just because of the destruction of the planet. Well, do JWs think God will be motivated by a desire to save planet Earth to start Armageddon? Shouldn't his motive be primarily due to the destruction of human lives that have suffered from powerful people and villains from the ancient past to the present?
     
  11. Thanks
    JW Insider reacted to Space Merchant in Rare video footage of Judge Rutherford at Beth-Sarim San Diego CA.   
    Some of this stuff we've seen before, so I don't see how that is rare. But, granted this is revolving around a JW pastor, there is a rare instance of him, pictures of him spotted during the fall of Black Wall Street, otherwise known as The Tulsa Race massacre of Summer 1921 (May 31, 1921 – June 1, 1921).
    As you can see in the pictures below, you can see the JW Pastor's (well a Bible Student at the time) picture in the background, the mob outside were whites demanding the lynching of Dick Rowland because he was spotted with a white woman by the name Sarah Page, and was said to have assaulted her, however she declined to prosecute, despite this, that assumption was the fuel the riot needed in their fire; they needed someone to blame.
    Reasons for the picture was due to the fact just the day before, he gave a sermon, "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" on a  Monday, which was May 30th of 1921, and there were many ads/posters placed prior to the talk itself, even in the papers which was to be held at the Convention Hall.  The next day on a Tuesday night, The Tulsa Race Riot began. It is said some black folks wanted to attend this talk (only white people attended obviously), however, because of the Jim Crow Laws that were in effect, this prohibited black and white people to meet/gather with each other, which also connects with a Bible Student by the name Richard Hill not being able to attend, more so, the situation with Dick and Sarah, sparked the lynch mob making anyone who isn't white a literal target.
    Sadly, some former Bible Students and JWs will tell you that the JWs had some involvement and or Hill was a colored person to they barred him, even going as far as to spin conspiracy for those who aren't aware of the situation that took place, but that was not the case, granted anyone willing to look into that history, will see the truth of the situation, i.e. ExJws pretending to be JWs to trick anyone who does not know what Jim Crow Laws are or the real history behind the riots.
    NOTE: The Jim Crow Laws forbid blacks and whites to congregate together anywhere, and it is very strict. Places such as schools, restaurants, churches, etc.
    As for Hill, it is most likely that he and his household survived the bloody riots, possibly were out of harm's way. It was also said that some went to Hill's house for meetings during this time. To some extent, White Bible Students even defended his home apparently as some would say.
     

     
     

  12. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Dmitar in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    If that's true, then one generation heard Jesus in 33 CE and another generation saw the destruction 37 years later in 70 CE. So you are speaking of two generations in the space of 37 years. This could mean you are thinking of each average generation as short as 18.5 years each, but probably longer, I'm guessing. (18.5+18.5=37)
    You might have a point, since there is evidence for a Jewish practice near that time period that suggested 18 years of age for the husband and as young as 13 for the wife.
    Marriage took place at a young age for the ancient Jews. Most rabbis proposed 18 as the most appropriate age for men to be married, but it wasn’t uncommon for them to be younger, especially in times of peace. Young women were married almost as soon as they were physically ready, approximately age 13.  http://blog.adw.org/2017/03/marriage-family-time-jesus/
    Without birth control, the first child would probably be born when the husband turned 19 and the wife turned 14, giving birth to the next generation. (Oh look, the birth of something around 19&14. That could be significant. Maybe they would have 6 o' 7 kids, too.)
    But if each generation could be under 20 years, this would mean there have now been, not TWO, but FIVE generations between 1914 and 2021. (107/20=5.35+) And counting from 1914 and adding Noah's 120 years would be SIX generations, at that rate.
    Exactly!! Excellent point!
  13. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    If that's true, then one generation heard Jesus in 33 CE and another generation saw the destruction 37 years later in 70 CE. So you are speaking of two generations in the space of 37 years. This could mean you are thinking of each average generation as short as 18.5 years each, but probably longer, I'm guessing. (18.5+18.5=37)
    You might have a point, since there is evidence for a Jewish practice near that time period that suggested 18 years of age for the husband and as young as 13 for the wife.
    Marriage took place at a young age for the ancient Jews. Most rabbis proposed 18 as the most appropriate age for men to be married, but it wasn’t uncommon for them to be younger, especially in times of peace. Young women were married almost as soon as they were physically ready, approximately age 13.  http://blog.adw.org/2017/03/marriage-family-time-jesus/
    Without birth control, the first child would probably be born when the husband turned 19 and the wife turned 14, giving birth to the next generation. (Oh look, the birth of something around 19&14. That could be significant. Maybe they would have 6 o' 7 kids, too.)
    But if each generation could be under 20 years, this would mean there have now been, not TWO, but FIVE generations between 1914 and 2021. (107/20=5.35+) And counting from 1914 and adding Noah's 120 years would be SIX generations, at that rate.
    Exactly!! Excellent point!
  14. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    If that's true, then one generation heard Jesus in 33 CE and another generation saw the destruction 37 years later in 70 CE. So you are speaking of two generations in the space of 37 years. This could mean you are thinking of each average generation as short as 18.5 years each, but probably longer, I'm guessing. (18.5+18.5=37)
    You might have a point, since there is evidence for a Jewish practice near that time period that suggested 18 years of age for the husband and as young as 13 for the wife.
    Marriage took place at a young age for the ancient Jews. Most rabbis proposed 18 as the most appropriate age for men to be married, but it wasn’t uncommon for them to be younger, especially in times of peace. Young women were married almost as soon as they were physically ready, approximately age 13.  http://blog.adw.org/2017/03/marriage-family-time-jesus/
    Without birth control, the first child would probably be born when the husband turned 19 and the wife turned 14, giving birth to the next generation. (Oh look, the birth of something around 19&14. That could be significant. Maybe they would have 6 o' 7 kids, too.)
    But if each generation could be under 20 years, this would mean there have now been, not TWO, but FIVE generations between 1914 and 2021. (107/20=5.35+) And counting from 1914 and adding Noah's 120 years would be SIX generations, at that rate.
    Exactly!! Excellent point!
  15. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Dmitar in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    *** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
    In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia.
     
  16. Downvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Dmitar in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    Isn't that exactly the problem with the current explanation? We currently have overlapping generations living together, but are we therefore contemporaries with the (US) Civil War generation who finally all died out around 1960? (I was born in 1957 and actually met one of them while out in service in 1964.) Are we currently living together with the generation of new babies who will be born after we die?
    If I made a speech today in front of all the contemporary generations alive today, and I said that THIS generation is going to see people living on Mars, but it doesn't happen until 121 years from now . . . then could anyone read my speech in the year 2142 and claim that I was right?
    It's difficult to imagine that someone could have great-great-great-grandchildren in 2142 and that those children would be saying to one another that their own great-great-great-grandmother actually knew someone named JWI who correctly predicted that we, in this very generation in 2142, would see it come true. That JWI was brilliantly correct! 
  17. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    Isn't that exactly the problem with the current explanation? We currently have overlapping generations living together, but are we therefore contemporaries with the (US) Civil War generation who finally all died out around 1960? (I was born in 1957 and actually met one of them while out in service in 1964.) Are we currently living together with the generation of new babies who will be born after we die?
    If I made a speech today in front of all the contemporary generations alive today, and I said that THIS generation is going to see people living on Mars, but it doesn't happen until 121 years from now . . . then could anyone read my speech in the year 2142 and claim that I was right?
    It's difficult to imagine that someone could have great-great-great-grandchildren in 2142 and that those children would be saying to one another that their own great-great-great-grandmother actually knew someone named JWI who correctly predicted that we, in this very generation in 2142, would see it come true. That JWI was brilliantly correct! 
  18. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Arauna in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    You are right... I read too fast! But say, I die and my grandchild is 10 years old.... there is enough time to have an influence in the life of that child - to teach them about jehovah.... so there is yourself, your son and his son..... three overlapping  generations on earth together... and when people have children young,  it can become 4 generations if the first lives long enough. And the great grandfather can have an influence on all four generations! Just as the bible says!
  19. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    Isn't that exactly the problem with the current explanation? We currently have overlapping generations living together, but are we therefore contemporaries with the (US) Civil War generation who finally all died out around 1960? (I was born in 1957 and actually met one of them while out in service in 1964.) Are we currently living together with the generation of new babies who will be born after we die?
    If I made a speech today in front of all the contemporary generations alive today, and I said that THIS generation is going to see people living on Mars, but it doesn't happen until 121 years from now . . . then could anyone read my speech in the year 2142 and claim that I was right?
    It's difficult to imagine that someone could have great-great-great-grandchildren in 2142 and that those children would be saying to one another that their own great-great-great-grandmother actually knew someone named JWI who correctly predicted that we, in this very generation in 2142, would see it come true. That JWI was brilliantly correct! 
  20. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Anna in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    *** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
    In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia.
     
  21. Thanks
    JW Insider got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    *** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
    In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia.
     
  22. Haha
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    I wonder if they are going to get rid of the idea that the first group "readily discerned the sign of Christ's presence in 1914." I expect that the new phrasing will become simply "they were alive to see the sign of Christ's presence in 1914."
    *** w14 1/15 p. 31 pars. 15-16 “Let Your Kingdom Come”—But When? ***
    The first group was on hand in 1914, and they readily discerned the sign of Christ’s presence in that year. Those who made up this group were not merely alive in 1914, but they were spirit-anointed as sons of God in or before that year.—Rom. 8:14-17.
    16 The second group included in “this generation” are anointed contemporaries of the first group. They were not simply alive during the lifetime of those in the first group, but they were anointed with holy spirit during the time that those of the first group were still on earth.
    It took until 1943 to get rid of the idea that Jesus' presence had started in 1874. So how could anyone in the first group readily "discern" the sign of Christ's presence in 1914?
    Of course, there really were contemporary (overlapping) generations in 1914, just as there were contemporary (overlapping) generations who were alive when Jesus spoke of "this generation" in 33 CE. In Jesus' day, they were the generation of grandparents, the generation of parents and the generation of children, all alive together in 33 CE. Therefore, if we're honest, then, it would have been the generation of grandparents, parents, and children alive in 1914 who made up those contemporary (overlapping) generations in 1914. That means that any anointed persons born after 33 CE were NOT, strictly speaking, contemporaries with those who heard Jesus talk about the generation. And anyone born in 1915 or later was NOT, strictly speaking, a contemporary of those anointed who were alive in 1914.
    I'm also wondering why they set up a rule restricting it to anointed only. Was it only anointed persons who heard about Jesus prophecy in 33 CE, and who survived until 70 CE to see that he was right? And, for an example, let's say that Jerusalem hadn't been burned by Rome until say around 150 CE, when all those actual contemporaries alive in 33 CE were long dead. Would we be defending Jesus' words with the idea that the apostle John must have grown old and died around the year 100 CE, but some babies who never met John were born just before he died, and those "babies" lived as contemporaries of John and were still alive in 150 CE?
    Maybe, we would. But I think it's more likely that someone would think about the 120 year "generation" of Noah's day, and would take note that 33 to 150 CE is just under 120 years. 😉
  23. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Arauna in Physical attendance at meetings/assemblies and "Zoom" attendance   
    Those who would have dropped out (even with physical attendance) would drop out.  ... because it shows what motivation  is in the heart. It is easier not to have to travel to meetings and many interested ones find it easier to attend online. Video's are very popular with the young ones - so adapting to the medium which suits them, is a very good idea!
  24. Upvote
    JW Insider got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    *** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
    In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia.
     
  25. Upvote
    JW Insider reacted to Anna in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    Good question.
    As you know, page 20 of the Kingdom Rules book shows an illustration of the Bible Students preaching, with the caption "In 1914, the Bible Students began to discern the sign of Christ’s invisible presence"
    And then page 50, par 5 it says "As we saw in Chapter 2 of this book, the Bible Students spent decades pointing out that the year 1914 would be significant in fulfilling Bible prophecy.  However, at that time they believed that Christ’s presence had begun in 1874, that he had begun to rule in heaven in 1878..."
    It's like two different people wrote chapter 2 and chapter 5 of the book. It's confusing....
     
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