Arauna

On 10/2/2019 at 4:53 AM, Witness said:

articles

Yes- you are judging historical sayings it by modern standards and expect perfection. 

All I know is there is no other religion teaching the name of Jehovah all over the earth.

Other Christian denominations believe in the immortality of the soul and believe that Jesus did not put his soul in death (Isaiah 53) . Hence they really do not believe that Jesus really died for all......and only after death  Jesus received immortality as a reward for his faithfulness to his father.

They do not understand that the kingdom will be a real government which will restore the earth......and we should be politically neutral. Most Christian's are quick to vote and grab their guns.... There are tons of other basic teachings which only JWs teach which are crucial to have a good understanding of what God and jesus did for us, so we can build a good relationship with God.  Thanks to the continued preaching efforts of JWs, I learnt the TRUTH.

Whatever the human flaws of our brothers 80 years ago or even 100 years ago, I always remember that Jehovah used Israel in his purpose and they were for sure also a bunch of imperfect men....... why ..... groups of men constantly thought they were better than Moses - and paid the penalty...... similar to what you are constantly doing.  

Moses did not realize that his son should have been circumcised - his wife saved the son's life.  Moses did not know all even though he was the mediator of the new covenant and went into the mountain.  He came back with his face shining, saw the glory of Jehovah as transmitted by angels.  He was also flawed and made mistakes...... 

You only focus on the mistakes and not the undeniable  truths that are taught by JWs. You use the bible and history as a misleading weapon.  I have seen your writings...... you do not fool me.  Nothing honest there but an accuser of our brothers day and night.   

If you belong to a golf club and break the rules you may get expelled from the group...... there are many other worldly clubs that do the same to keep their good reputation. When people join the club they know the rules.

If you are unrepentent - and did a gross sin -  you are saying the person must still have full rights?  Even after being baptised and he knows the requirements?  Worldly organizations recognise the need for shunning but we must be different?  Anything goes?  Even if God gives this  instruction for unrepentent people?   Remember - we only do this for people who PERSIST in unrepentent behaviour - who are hardened in their sin - because we first try to win them back.

This is the gumboot dance they used to do on the mines. 

I love African singing and dancing. 

Satan is mentally diseased by hate. He is totally twisted in his reasoning. ....... God is the final judge..... but when a person shows the same destructive and hateful behaviour over and over again, then one should call a duck, a duck.  

If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck over and over again - it's a duck.  When Jesus exposed the pharisees and called them graves...... he was speaking about their hate for truth and their unclean condition. Unfortunately, there are people like that everywhere.

While it is true that some repent after a debauched life and come back into the fold......like the prodigal son, there are those one can identify as being unrepentantly hateful and destructive. 

They all usually display the same frame of mind over and over again ...asif they are in a mental prison that cannot let them out.

OCD  comes out in behaviour when people keep returning to the same old, same old, same old.... same old........behaviour of JW bashing. Just ONE agenda...... no new arguments or LOGICAL thoughts, no new ideas - just repetition. No intelligent intellect. ..... just repetition....same old rehash over and over.  

Question: do you think there is something wrong when I keep repeating the same words in this one paragraph?     Makes a point, doesn't it?

Why do you think I do not come back here to this site.  I like to learn new things. I will rather listen to a atheist debate on YouTube  than your CONSTANTLY recurring and rehash of similar bashing..... I, at least, learn how these atheists think - so I can answer them logically in the field.  

Thanks for refreshing my memory about how many times I have said some here have OCD - quite a common behaviour  I have noticed amongst apostates.

Satan also has OCD -  a ONE track mind- he says the same thing over and over with a few changes in words to get as many people as possible to doubt Jehovah and his organization........ he acts in the exact same fashion.

While true sufferers of OCD repeat behaviours out of severe anxiety.... and I truly feel sorry for them.... yours comes from pure hate.  Nothing loving or upbuilding in anything you say....... just breaking, breaking, breaking... down .... lol. ... and then the doll is wound up again and sings the same old broken song........ over and over....

Yea, I will not believe any person who says they cannot get out of JW......it is pretty easy.....

In the end - JHWH will judge. ...... Let them slander, let them get us thrown into prison, let them sow disorder and hate.

What a man sows - he will reap. 

Do not oppose the wicked, if they have no self-restraint they will go from bad to worse and show the world what they are  - part of the "man of lawlessness".

OCD 

On 12/22/2018 at 8:36 AM, Space Merchant said:

Not all ExJWs are rude people.

Most have a campaign of hate towards witnesses - which gives a good indication of who their real father is. 

They suffer from OCD and cannot move on but must destroy...... another indication of who their father is.

Those ex-witnesses who move on and do not try to hurt or damage those who remain in the faith sometimes return after many years. 

On 9/28/2019 at 12:30 AM, Witness said:

As my rather frank mother would have said, “the guy is a crackpot”.   

I just don't get people who quote things out of historical context and evaluate it by today's modern standards.  It is a bending of the truth.

If I quote Franklin, Wilson, Rooseveldt out of historical context then people will call me a bender of historical context.

By today's standards a "scholar" that evaluates quotes out of historical context is also a  crackpot.

Most people in USA in this time did not even think of giving black people human rights..... and there are so many other things I can mention...... that were totally different in society then - so please get real. ...... 

On 9/27/2019 at 10:47 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

trivial pursuit.

Full justice in this world is not possible. And those who feel entitled to wrongdoing and still be accepted as brothers will be the first to cry "injustice".  

Thanks to Jehovah,  in his wisdom he will be the final judge and compensator.  If you were really treated unfairly - he will compensate you - that is if you really believe he exists and is the rewarder of unselfish suffering.  

When one reads these reports there is no difference between Islam and orthrodox christendom.

China uses prisoners for body parts for the rich..... the details are absolutely evil. No doubt this evil regime has used some of our brothers in this way. 

We know this is coming (prophecied) but it is still heart wrenching to hear about it. 

On 9/28/2019 at 7:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

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It is not the same thing.   We do not expel people from the area they are living in or deny them a living. 

Most probably the authorities want bribes.  Totally corrupt country. We do not owe them money. There is supposed to be freedom of religion.

Zimbabwe is on its last legs. Economy is falling apart and Russia/China was going to lend it some money..   They will therefore squeeze any amount of money from a foreign entity and if you give in once....... the bribes will never stop. 

Many muslims from Azerbaijan here in Rep. Of Georgia.  A lovely Uzbeki sister is often my partner in the field.

In Islamic countries one is not allowed to preach another religion.  Yet in western countries they fight for their rights and "islamaphobia" is often cited.  This hypocricy is part of supremacy of the religion..... 

Christian's in Canada and UK who have converted  from Islam are sent back to Iran and other countries where they face the death penalty.

Western countries are turning against Christians of any kind. Nothing in the news about the dessimation of Christian's in North Africa and Muslim countries in middle east.

Soon we may find ourselves in prison with some of these Christians- and then another phase of our preaching will start.

A pretty old video quoted above - from a forgotten era. 

My parents were born in 1920s. Most women did not work until after WW2 because women did the work of men during the war. Even after the war the consensus was that women were made to be subject to men and had to stay at home with children.  My mother was fortunate   She was a nursing sister and helped my father in his practise. Freedom of women and children came with contraception and flower power of the sixties.

So to me it is natural , due to the times, that brothers would  interpret scriptures in the same way as society. Reflect the conservative values if society.

I attended a wedding talk last week and it was really good! The brother compared the wife as  "helper" with God being our "helper " - same word used. 

I placed this answer earlier today on a debate about morality and atheism:

The word "reality" is connected to the 'sovreignty' of God in the bible. His name JHWH means "he causes to become" and the active verb associated with these 4 letters in his name means: " I shall prove to be".  
(Most  religions in christen-dom (rulers with a domain) and the rest of the world empire of religion as described in Revelation 17 & 18, unfortunately do not teach what is in the bible but have been corrupted by babylonian pagan thinking, such as superimposing hellfire and immortality of the soul as dogmas on their members) - just as a sidenote. 
For human society to function in harmony and cooperation we need one set of external principles for all humans on earth to adhere to. One standard of justice. Some call this natural law..... for example, to refrain from causing undue pain for others and to respect all life.
This is why the UN now wants to arbitrarily impose one set if human-made laws on mankind and then technocratically  monitor (do surveillance on) all human behaviour to try to create acceptance and cohesion on earth.  They think that the model in China is acceptable and want to  save the future of the planet they say.  This is why the bible does prophecy that these rulers in the last days will turn against all religion on earth - propably to bring in their one "human set of laws". Those who do not comply to this will be "reeducated."..... almost in a totalitarian fashion/ the state will become the sovereign or the "God" and the state will claim the  worship or place  of a God. This will be the new "reality" for everyone........ in future so it seems.
Interestingly, this is the main theme of the bible:  humans, (Adam & Eve) chose independence from the sovreignty of god  JHWH.  They would have all been equal under His benevolent godship when they had children. But they chose to do their own thing - become their own God.  They chose their own morality (good and bad) not the good and bad God gave to society. 
In order for one set of standards to really work for all people they must be free and have personal responsibility. But this responsibility must not be forced onto people. They must understand that their cooperation (in willing free will with no coersion) will bring peace and security for all.  Free will is most important in obtaining a free and happy society.
After Adam and eve chose their own way, humans have made up their own religions and philosophies as they went along but mankind has still been plagued by wars and injustice because there are always people who are selfish and greedy and oppressive of others to gain power...... be a god. ........ a flaw which comes from rejecting the sovreignty and morality of god. 
This is why God does promise an intervention in human affairs when mankind has proved that their "independence " from Him has led to global oppression and sufferings.  Humans are now at our apex of development but our greed is destroying our habitat - all life (revelation 11:18 prophesied  this).  We invented medicine but also agent orange and all kinds if weapons for warfare with our technology. We have had 20 years of free internet but soon the technocrats will turn it into a weapon for controlling the masses.
So- God has given us freedom to prove our capabilities without him.  He created  us with free will but bound us to him in only one thing:  We need to apply his principles in our decision making process.   Jesus (the true messenger from god) taught us to love others like ourselves and to give our lives (die if needed) in integrity to prove that we will not detrimentally hurt another human being....... respect all life.  If everyone willingly did this - most people will make willing sacrifices to restore the earth and keep peace with others.  But the reality is that people and the oppressors want to be their own gods/sovereigns  and force others  to do their will.  Human governance does not and will not work (as predicted in eccl 8:9)  because humans were created to be equal and free under one God (the one that shall prove to be) and have freedom of expression while showing willing self-control for the greater good of all and following the law of  love in all they do. If you love your neighbour you will not take his wife or covet his things. The laws were given to Israel to teach them but christ fulfilled the law and taught: self-sacrificing love.   I believe sincerely this is the only ideology which can restore mankind after God removes the greedy oppressors who refuse to cooperate with decent society.   God is reality.   I have studied the religion of darwinism and many other  religions but a lack of  logic and continuity of the main theme has convinced me the God of the bible will "prove to be".

As you know JWs do not stick to dogmas like other churches. We continue to grow spiritually to new insights. What Franz said 60 years ago has nothing to do with how circuit overseers now appoint elders.

The precedent is in there the bible but the slave  did not seem to notice it then..... so they have corrected themselves.... nothing wrong with that.

You, on the other hand have remained stuck in the past somewhere with old grudges etc. Nonsensical  production of old things.... I 

Just to clarify: There were no laws in place in the 1950s, 1960s and even most countries in 1970s......regarding sexual abuse.   "Mandatory reporting" is a relatively new law and covers the loopholes in the law that previously existed........ This was not the fault of institutions but the negligence of law makers.  What was the JWs to do?

JWs  therefore kept records of suspected child abuse cases since 1950s  to be able to notify other congregations of this possibility when suspected perpetrators moved. JWs were the only organization to try to mitigate this problem and now they are "smeared" because of these records.

As I said before - Congress should be blamed for all the loopholes in the laws in the past......no one really knew what to do with these cases and therefore  most perpetrators got away with it...... until 2007 ...when the law changed. How?

During  new court proceedings the victim (children) could no longer be cross-examined in an open court with the perpetrator in view.  Recordings and other methods of testimony was now allowed.   This was the main reason most perpetrators got away with crimes in the past because children had to go through a second abuse of court proceedings and could not measure up.  (However, mosr governments still do not provide enough "expertise" in this field to support children going to court. ... it costs too much.)

The one law which still exists and should be debated is this "priviledge of privacy" of lawyers and spiritual advisors. 

It is not without merit: it does not matter if you have a team of lawyers or only one ..... (a team of priests or one) you have the right to privacy with them (even if you are guilty),  in order to have a fair trial.... well that has been the past legal premise.

Similarly, a person could confess to a priest and then go to a trial for murder. The priest was never called up to testify about the confession (he merely looked after the soul of the person) but the court proceedings had to produce  sufficient evidence to get a conviction.

If necessary - the state should change this "privacy of confession" law.

So - If someone started coming to our meetings and confessed a past sexual sin.   Must elders now report it?  Or is it up to the "victim" to report past sins to the police?  Especially now that one can report it  retro-actively.   The law macine is in place to follow up and investigate.......and get evidence. But the law has failed many people.......why? Lets face the truth - child victims and their parents never felt free to go to the law - even in adult rape cases women and men face a terrible time after a rape. 

(The congregation proceedings as in case of priests is separate from the law - it  deals with only the spiritual side of things).

What I do get is that the government is now enabling victims to go after the wrong people - not the perpetrator .....but the organization which can give the most compensation.... Why did the victim not lodge a complaint with police ? Because the law machine was inadequate. It is too much trouble to get a good court case together and the evidence.  And even if they have enough evidence - it depends on the social status of the perpetrator. A good example of this is the current case of Epstein. The law actually actually allowed Epstein to go after the victims in the Epstein case....to silence them ..... and Epstein got away with 34 counts of abuse and trafficking of minors about 10 years ago.

To me it is  clear case that the state has not been doing its job and now want to blame and saddle  the organizations who have had children in their midst with ALL the reckless irresponsibility.... that they ( lawgivers) hould have been sued for.

 The state legislators of the past were clearly the ones who neglected putting solid laws in place and the law machine has been inadequate. 

On 9/6/2019 at 7:51 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

 

I am almost 67 years old....... but I still remember many of my reactions which could have been related to hormones - especially my quick emotional reactions.  I think older men also remember many of their  reactions and now look back at this time with more wisdom and maturity. 

Apart from judging humans by applying Jehovahs' righteous principles I do think that memories of our own imperfections and situations (for example: which situations were very difficult to show subjection to a husband ) help us even now (here on earth) to not judge others too harshly......

On 9/6/2019 at 9:34 PM, Witness said:

Who organized Paul's ministry?

I think you tend to stray off the main topic.

The point is not who organized Paul's personal ministry and who chose him ....but who he himself was subject to report to. In proof: He went all the way back to Jerusalem to go and report to the "body" that was making central decisions about circumcision of former pagans now in the congregation. All that travelling to report to an organization headed by James in Jerusalem?  It indicates he viewed  himself as subject to them and their opinions mattered for the unity if all the congregations. 

The outcome was sent out to all the congregations.

On 9/6/2019 at 4:53 PM, Matthew9969 said:

So women will become jewish male virgins...isn't that a pagan belief Arauna?

Did not understand your question...... I did not speak of virgins.......  I have read the Quran, hadith and sirah and speak some Arabic. I also lived in Sweden and know the similarity between nordic Valhallah and pagan teachings of Islam.

I see no relevance in my answer to your jumping to conclusions my dear - so explain yourself please so I can correct any misunderstandings.

Again a deceitful mispresentation. 

Locusts are "clean" for eating according to Mosaic law .  They were  the food of  John the Baptist.  And these locusts have "golden crowns"..... "7And in appearance the locusts resembled horses prepared for battle; on their heads were what seemed to be crowns of gold, and their faces were like human faces."

Locusts can be a sign of Jehovah's judgement. A swarm of locusts progresses like a well-organized, disciplined fighting force and nothing can stop them. 

"and their torment was like torment by a scorpion when it strikes a person." It did not look like a scorpion but stung like a scorpion.

Jesus wears a golden crown, these scorpions have golden crowns in his image.  The human quality of the face is not disribed as angry but a job of love is done. Unfortunately the truth is more like stings of torture of a scorpion  to fleshly people "those who do not have the seal of god" as the scripture quoted indicates.

Please be reminded that those heavenly creatures in the presence of God also have " human faces".

There is no indication in the scripture in Revelation indicate that these spread falsehoods. One has to twist the scriptures to come to your conclusion. .....

a

On 9/2/2019 at 6:56 AM, Witness said:

Governing body is not mentioned in the bible

It was maybe called the Jerusalem central committee or Jerusalem elders or whatever name you want to give it..... It is definitely deceitful of you to say that such a central organization/body/committee did not exist.  It set a precedent for us.

You again prove willful amnesia about a bible fact.  Paul, the apostle, and his companion had to go to Jerusalem to testify before this body of elders which centrally made the decisions. They testified how the non-Jews received gifts of the spirit and were blessed by jehovah. We have the outcome decision which was sent to all the congregations at this time.  Acts 15 tells us what happened and what this group of elders under James decided. Acts 15: 29. 

All elders, including Paul, abided by this decision. So much so that Paul later chastised Peter who hypocritically sat separately only with the circumcised Jews.