Arauna

Such a wild statement with no proof! I speak to many atheists - most of them here in Sweden.... ... Their ideas of religion is what they learnt in Babylon the Great and most have not read the Bible. Bible education has not been allowed here for 3 generations in the schools in Sweden but in England (many of these privileged ones who scoff at God) attended private Catholic/Anglican schools. Most do of them do not know their history either (or ignore the facts) - for example - that Darwinism not only inspired the eugenics of Hitler - (6 million dead) but that in a very short time after Darwin (in a matter of 50 years after 1914) the most people were killed in the entire history of the world - much more than any prior blood thirsty ruler or Christianity could do. Russian revolution 1917 (atheist government) between 20 to 40 million people. Mau se Tung(atheist government) - up to 100 million dead; Pol pot in Cambodia.... shall I go on - the list of genocides in the 20th century is astounding! Most of these 'high priests of this new religion called atheism' get their audiences from people who think they are smart but are not really analytical thinkers. By the way I have read Hawkins but not a Dawkins. I watched many of Dawkins' stupid stuff on YouTube and gave some comments but stopped watching when he said that “humans were seeded by aliens” without giving a scientific reason…..that clinched it for me.... Not much brains there just one nasty fellow and made a lot of money while doing it. He does not care for science or truth. I like to talk with atheists who really are in search of truth or care about science….and the world. Some of them are as mocking and arrogant as AllanF….

We have clear instructions on how elders must be chosen - no females. So if an anointed were on earth now in human form (before obtaining her heavenly calling where there will be no biological females - should they then serve as elders - now?

2 CRON 36:20 + 21 20 He took all the survivors to Babylonia, where they served him and his descendants as slaves until the rise of the Persian Empire. 21 And so what the Lord had foretold through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled: “The land will lie desolate for seventy years, to make up for the Sabbath rest[c] that has not been observed.” Daniel 9 Darius the Mede, who was the son of Xerxes, ruled over the kingdom of Babylonia. 2 In the first year of his reign I was studying the sacred books and thinking about the seventy years that Jerusalem would be in ruins, according to what the Lord had told the prophet Jeremiah. 3 Jeremiah 29:10Good News Translation (GNT) 10 “The Lord says, ‘When Babylonia's seventy years are over, I will show my concern for you and keep my promise to bring you back home. Jeremiah 25: 11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. 12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, a The books of Daniel and Chronicles confirm what Jeremia said:

I was talking about contributors who believe that the anointed will come back in the flesh to live on earth after they have already received their heavenly calling. I was NOT talking about the anointed on earth today who have not yet been given a heavenly body. Jesus did not come back in the flesh and ‘live’ amongst the people on earth did he? He came back for only 50 days before he went back to his father. I think they do a pretty good job of the training work they are doing in all the earth. It is hard to manage so many different societies with so many different histories, previous religions and cultures and maintain functioning unity and harmony. How would you have managed it? I see you call it rules…. Well, to manage such a large family and keep out those who foment false teachings and divisions – there should be guidelines. One shoe cannot fit all situations and therefore a body of elders should use their own combined discretion in situations where there are no guidelines. But there should be some form of uniformity in all the earth. It is not a perfect system but it works….we are still on this side of Armageddon – nothing is perfect. I do not think you understand what the word "rule" means. The letters in Arabic - which is close to the Hebrew- means to judge. This means that "decisions” will be made regarding the administration of the restoration of the earth and of individual people – who may not be cooperating. One need not be among the people 'physically' to do this - just like a board of a company does not have to be present physically to make decisions about a company. I also said - this does not mean that they will not be able to materialize for special purposes. However, Jehovah is the perfect planner and everything he does has logic to it:- Why will he give a heavenly ‘reward’ and then bring them back to earth in materialized form to live on earth for thousand years. Would it not have been more practical to let them stay here on earth in human form and then take them to heaven AFTER the 1000 years? As I said before - adopted sons of Jehovah will be part of his heavenly family like the other sons. Their bodies: Rom 8:23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our ‘bodies’ by ransom. 1 Cor 15: 50 But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption. The Place: Rev 3:21 To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. Hebrew 8:1 – What tent is spoken of in these verses? The temple in earthly/fleshly Jerusalem or the heavenly one? “…and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister of the holy place and of the true tent, which Jehovah set up, and not man. 4 If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, since there are already men who offer the gifts according to the Law. These men are offering sacred service in a typical representation and a shadow of the heavenly things; Hebrews 9: For its part, the former covenant used to have legal requirements for sacred service and its holy place on earth. 24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, The reality of the new covenant is in heaven - Hebrews 10: for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, which he opened up for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, (Entire Hebrews 10 is about Jesus offering up his flesh - a fleshly body was prepared for him as sacrifice - so will the anointed offer up their flesh) Hebrews 12:22 But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, . God will be present in this city: Revelation 22: And there will no longer be any curse. But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his slaves will offer him sacred service; and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. God will shed light upon them, and they will rule as kings forever and ever. NEW NATION and citizenship: Phil 3:20 But our citizenship exists in the heavens, and we are eagerly waiting for a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our humble body to be like his glorious body by his great power that enables him to subject all things to himself. MT ZION: Isaiah 8 :18 Jehovah resides on Mount Zion. (apologies for the format - it is late and I want to go to bed)

Because the signs are overwhelming..... no-one can deny that... since 1914 the world has grown incrementally worse ..... and we ain't seen nothing yet! The currents of what is going on now is frightening! Even for someone that knows Jehovah...... If people think their own brilliance and stability keeps them in the truth they are mistaken. It is Jehovah's spirit that keeps us here. If we lose our relationship with him we cannot see beyond the pains and aches of this system.... or the faults of others....and then other things in the world become more important such as doctorate degrees, stage careers or some other passion that can get us attention. ... and then we find some valid-looking excuse. There are many people in the truth who have suffered - even by lack of love from their own brother's imperfection - but they cling to Jehovah and the 'heritage' he has given us. Some people are suffering out there - the poorest of the poorest look forward to the release of their suffering. I have seen such poverty in Africa - the first time I worked in a devastatingly poor area - I went home and cried for a week. People in developed countries do not know what REAL poverty is and to be part of a poor uneducated society.... they have no clue! The promises that Jehovah will bring an end to suffering and indicating 1914 as the start of this - with the growth of terrorism, insecurity, refugees and poverty as result of wars - is NOT promoting a falsehood.... it helps people to put their trust in the only solution there is .....to trust Jehovah for salvation...... they have a hope which will not fail them. We fail.... but Jehovah cannot fail.

Every spoken word has a motive - for a result.... and a withheld word also has motive...... if one withholds a titbit of truth - one can deceive..... So it is interesting to see how people use their information....

This is dangerous thinking because there are too many signs on the ground now which started in 1914 and is culminating into a very dangerous world-wide situation - it is putting the future of mankind's very EXISTENCE in jeopardy. These issues will definitely all be coming to a crisis within the next few years - quicker than expected. Those saying : where is the end? It is panting to its 'disastrous apex' and most people are not giving attention or think they have ample time - just as the scriptures warned us. All aspects of our 'survival as a species' will come to head quite soon. I made sure for myself years ago that I accept 1914 and acknowledge completely that I now tend to look more at world events for the signs on ground zero - all the politics and trends happening in the world right now regarding ecology, deforestation, water pollution, weapon arsenals, and philosophy - to name only a few facets. It helps me in the field because most people accept 1914 and the invisible rule (rev 12: 6 onwards) when they can see what has been happening since 1914 in real life. Even atheists evaluate their stance on the world when one can logically present what is going on and ask the question: how 'science' will solve this..... I have been criticized for being here on this forum and not offering academic contributions.... However, I do have an interest to follow the newest contributions from other contributors to see if there is anything new that I had not thought about before when I looked into it years ago. I do sometimes make comments to add some interesting tidbit, when I see that someone is unreasonable, or when someone has sneaked in some other 'related subject' which is not in line with bible thought - which comes from the idea that they do not accept 607 - 1914. When they do not accept 1914 they tend to deviate into all other kinds of theories which are not based on accurate thinking from the scriptures .... such as the idea that the 144000 will be living in flesh amongst us after Armageddon......and Christ will have to appear in flesh so the world will know what is going on. (The Muslims have a place where they say the Mahdi will come and I often wonder if they will have world-television there so everyone will see him - fleshly reasoning not based on truth) It is nice to follow the academic discussion - but again - it only benefits those here and those who have the stamina to quickly read through it when they come home from daily activities and offer a comment. The slave have done their homework and do not set out to cover up or deceive as some on this forum imply - the Amaharets are better off tending to their children and get on with the business of family worship and field service. Academic arguments is not going to bring more people closer to Jehovah. And since this is supposed to be a religious forum and not an academic forum at a university - I can make this statement.

My experience exactly in the few years that I have come back to this forum - she is always ready for a fight - and does not care for real scholarship - even if she professes it. A person's search for truth also involves a reasonableness to look at all aspects of a subject. Even if good arguments are given - she does not consider it and goes back to her old arguments.

When people start to develop egos and leave the truth one cannot trust them any more. TRUST is an important aspect in all facets of life - even in business when working with opposition companies or negotiating. I have worked in business in America and believe me TRUST is the most important thing - if your work involves working with opposition companies. If I am working with a person in a team and they are always criticizing management severely and they are only looking out for themselves - ego - it breaks team morale. We are social animals after all - Jehovah created us this way - that we need to trust each other. When someone has left the truth and they are pursuing a scholarly career then ego and politics at the university enters into it. At present I would NOT like to be working at any university - have you noticed what is going on? Would I completely trust such a person and their integrity to just go after truth? Or is it more important to them to get noticed and pose a new theory?

Valekowski - he started the trend to look closer at the dates...... Many came after him...

Allan and all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky Emmanuel Velikovsky became known in 1950 and after him there were many authors who revised the Egyptian timeline and other Middle eastern timelines... Read his history under the link above. Since then there have been many good scholars who reject the timelines of all middle east and Egyptian chronology. ..... but they are outcasts amongst the rest of the fraternity.

This to me sounds like a bunch of people who want to see themselves as a special class of teachers...... and walk around amongst the earthly Amaharets as privileged heavenly ones.....like the fathers of the Nephilim of old.... same wish for more than their allotted attention. Jehovah's people are already being taught at our meetings ... and Jehovah may use this same system in the new system. An army of people are being added to the earthly domain of Jehovah's future government every day and are being taught individually by those who primarily have the promise of living for ever on EARTH as future subjects. No special anointed with special insight needed for this!! Again - look what is happening on the ground....in reality - not fantasy... Today - we are being prepared as future citizens - totally neutral and being taught to love one another and care for each other and to obey Jehovah. We are all taught the 'principles' of Jehovah and each individual knows what is expected from him. The problem is that we all are living in a secular world and have to cope with secular problems all the time. Many come from bad backgrounds and need time to unlearn some bad personal habits - but overall they do not become gross sinners and try not to be hurtful human beings or have hurtful practices towards others. (We all will be happy when the influence of satan and his demons are removed.) There are a few renegades and they are set outside the congregation until they accept that they have sinned against Jehovah and hurt their fellows and try to change and cooperate with the teachings of Jehovah and the elders (Elders are a scriptural instruction - no need to give proof from the bible). Under Jehovah's government now we do not have police to keep everyone in check. Everyone is expected to obey from free will supported by the education they received individually and in the congregation. Those who overstep the lines (invisible barriers where one can harm another or self or disrespect Jehovah) are spoken with, but if their rebellion is serious - they need to face the consequences. All governments have police - we do not because we have already been EDUCATED SPIRITUALLY and as individuals we have all the materials needed to educate ourselves further. In the new system - when the new scrolls open up, all will be educated in the same way - and all will be expected to obey by their own volition/free will. (no supervisors needed or special individual teachers). Jehovah's government will deal directly with those who are a threat to others. After the 1000 years - the anointed and Jesus will no longer be in their positions as kings and priests. They will get new jobs. How will people on earth live? Will they need police or supervisors? NO. They will experience total freedom like Adam had and live by their educated consciences - and their direct communication with Jehovah will be restored. In the 1000 years there will be a continuation of what is happening NOW - a continuation of the spiritual education (without satan around to cause problems) so that everyone can reach perfection. All the needed provisions (spiritual food from the new scrolls will be provided/facilitated).... as Revelation indicates. Jehovah's spirit will be in abundance! And we will be free to communicate with him without the worldly pressures and agendas that crowd our lives now. If one understands the Hebrew word for rule (as in Arabic) - it is NOT the secular oppressive rule that we have seen in the worldly system past and present ......... it is closely related to the word "to give justice"... to judge (judge does not have the connection to punish - but to give justice). Any creature who likes to control others is like satan. All the resurrected ones on earth who have suffered will receive compensation and justice in this 1000 years. All the lowly and those oppressed - who before were slaves... they will receive the benefits of total freedom with personal responsibility... living in peace and harmony with others and NOT being dominated by any one else on anyone telling you what to do. Obedience to Jehovah is ALWAYS a matter of conscious choice! If everyone obeyed by conscious choice there would be no problems on earth at all. If everyone cooperated willingly to instructions (without it being a law) we will have harmony and equity- (each person being appreciated for who they are). Those who decide at the final test as perfect people that they do not want to live under this government - will face consequences for their choices. If they choose like Adam - they will face the consequence of Adam.... however the number of people is undetermined now. So elders in the new world will NOT tell people what to do - they will be facilitators/serve. The anointed ( 1kor 15) will have heavenly bodies with immortality. It is unnatural for heavenly bodies to materialize - only on special occasions did Jehovah instruct his angels to materialize and it was with at special occasions when his "purpose" was being directed. Romans 9:4 speaks of "sacred service" of the anointed. Primarily they are the 'new heavens' spoken of..... with heavenly bodies . Their priestly duties will most probably be to facilitate the provisions and instructions for the forgiveness of sins.... If they do materialize it will be for a specific purpose because they are 'adopted sons' - like the other angels and they are a new creation with a new name (new heavenly position and function). We do not see the angels amongst us do we? Yet we know they are there and they are assisting the preaching and teaching work.... To give up their heavenly bodies will be to give up their separateness as a priestly nation - a special possession - set aside for Jehovah. Their new jobs are not completely defined in the bible. All we know is that their work will be rewarding and important....1Peter 2 they will offer up spiritual sacrifices through Christ. Hebrews 8:5 indicates the priesthood of Moses to be a "shadow" of the sacred service in 'heaven' - heavenly things. They will facilitate/oversee the teaching of the word of Jehovah... and the important function of judging and seeing that righteous 'decisions' are made and Jehovah's righteous law is enforced throughout the earth - almost like the boardroom in a company. Jehovah's spirit will be in full operation so he will facilitate communication between heaven and earth as he has done in the past. Many resurrected ones may have problems adapting etc.... so the 144000 will have an important job to facilitate justice and mercy. They have enough experience as imperfect people. The anointed may be visible during Armageddon but this cannot be taught as a fact. We know that angels destroyed 185,000 troops of Sennacherib and he himself thought it was pestilence - no-one saw the angels (Israel ot the Assyrians did not) but they saw the results! The bible does also speak of natural signs.... so people will not be in the dark as to who is bringing the destruction especially after they start to attack Jehovah's people in the entire globe! Moses was a priest - he called to Jehovah and interceded for israel - their intercessionary work will also be the facilitation of justice and mercy. Moses heard many cases until it was given to 70 elders. The elders are an institution - given in the bible - they are shepherds and facilitators for the congregations... servants... of others. They are now being trained (and will still need a lot of training like all the others) if they are to be used in futue. The higher you want to be in Jehovah's organization the humbler one should become..... this is what the bible teaches... no need to quote all the scriptures.

I understood what you meant but I countered it with another question to prove how most people in the world do not study the bible. In contrast, the Witnesses study and learn the truth and it carries them for a long time. Truths such as the mortality of the soul, Jehovah's name etc. Most people on this forum learnt all these things from the Witnesses but turn around and bite the hand that fed them this information in the first place! My FEELINGS are - you are wrong. Most know how we get there but have more to do with their time than spend days in front of their computers in forums like this trying to score points for themselves..... because this is not edifying to anyone but the persons who think they can discredit the slave... it is not purely an academic exercise - do not be fooled!.. There are more competent people on here than I - who can be an advocate in this court case - however, fairness is not guaranteed! I recall when this subject came up before under another heading these same people themselves did not know that the JW's use 537 BCE as the pivotal date to get to 607 BCE .... the conversation fizzled out after this was proven to them......just to be opened up later again with more virulent compulsion. As someone has already pointed out - we do not need this for salvation. But I do think 1914 helps us to realize how far we are in the stream of time and how close we are to Armageddon - a loving provision from Jehovah. And I do not try to 'prove' anything with this statement...because appreciation cannot be measured or quantified in an academic way unless you do another study - lol. I am not here to score points but I wish to show there is more to 1914 than just a date - the history on the ground is completely ignored by these people who try to prove the slave to be deceivers and they use any minute discrepancy to do so to their advantage.... without considering their own discrepancies.... and this shines a light on their motive.... There are many feelings attached to this date - it presents much more than a date. Many here promote only the knowledge without a love for Jehovah - so it has no meaning to them - just an academic exercise. And yet these very people ignore the signs on the ground which has so much emotional meaning for those awaiting this final stretch of time. The history on the ground since 1914 is what helps the "simple folk out there - the Amaharets" - without the academic inclinations, to lift their heads up. They are the ones whom Jehovah and Jesus loves.... and sustains with his spirit.

times and a half" or 1260 (lunar or 'Mohammedan') years with Luke 21's Gentile times (p. vii, xi, etc.). Well - the Bible also used lunar years, so why call it Mohammedan? All the planting in Israel was done according to the Lunar calendar and they watched the moon to see when the festivals should be. It was their way of counting time just as the nations around them did. The only difference was - they were not allowed to blow kisses at the moon or worship the moon like the pagans around them did.

Assyrian chronology was synchronized with Egyptian chronology and those 20 years are hard to find because of this. The father you go back in time - the gap becomes more than 300 years. To meticulously count and use Bible chronology here is better than any secular sources....the secular sources are not reliable. This is the best SECULAR date to SYNCRONIZE with a Biblical date....and work your dates back from this point..... And what is more this date is accepted by all biblical and secular scholars as accurate. Greek and Babylonian sources can be used to come to the same conclusion - without a doubt. If you are a meticulous scholar you will choose the best date that can be corroborated from various sources and work back from there This is where the bigger picture (overall consistency of the promises of Jehovah) comes in - to understand the entire administration of Jehovah throughout the ages and how he has given timelines to prove periodically to those people which he is using at the time (for his purpose) that his "restoration project' for the earth is still on track and on time and moving ahead to its full completion. This proves the accuracy of the entire bible and its "reality" so one knows this is the absolute truth - not just a blind faith - because the evidence is there that everything is happening on time in its outcome is reliable. It gives your faith vigor to know exactly where you are in time. Prophesy a few hundred years ahead of time on many occasions carried the nation that Jehovah was using to go forward and wait for fulfilmment and "see the hand" of Jehovah! How many worldly people do this? When people learn the truth from JWs they are impressed by the logic they have never seen before in the explanation of Jehovah's purpose and the many things they learn about the mortality of the soul, the last days and where we are in the time line - and it all fits into a logical picture. This carries them for a long time and often is sufficient until death. No fault in that..... To be a good debater is not important but to understand the truth and obey Jehovah. No extra points to us older folks who start scratching under the surface..... I just did this years ago because I had a need...... and the time line and the "overall" consistency of definite time points being met by Jehovah exactly as predicted (70 weeks prophecy - the world empires and 1914 ) also contributed to me seeing the entire Bible as the only "reality" there is..... so I am glad I did the exercise. I often use this when talking to atheists! ... to prove the bible is the only source of reality. I use it together with things happening on the ground. I always ask: why am I doing this? or this other person doing this? This is why I ask the questions here on this forum when I see scriptures being misapplied or so much credence given to secular material (that is not proven to be infallible) and this held up to discredit the dates given by the slave and therefore the entire "administration" of Jehovah throughout the ages being called into question. It indicates a lack of understanding of the overall bigger picture.... and it seems to be a process where people are bogged down in one small area of detail only to be failing to see the wonder and miracle of a larger overall "reality". Failing to understand 1914 really water's the truth down somewhat and allows one to automatically reject many of the scriptures that are available to show where we are in the stream of time such the dream of Nebuchadnezzar relating to the gentile times. Faith is important - but Jehovah knew that us simple folks - we always need small steps to look forward to and he lovingly gave it to us.... and what is more.... the proof of the pudding is the eating....... world events since 1914 has proven that it is a 'reality'...... We will soon be seeing the last prophecies regarding Babylon the great, the call to peace and security...and the 8th king in action.... as a matter of fact - religions seem to be riding the beast as we speak.....

This is not about the "earthly Jerusalem" it was about an establishment of the kingdom in 'heaven' - which was an earthly kingdom before in the time of Israel - when Sedekia was the last king. This is the kind of reasoning that mixes up the earthly Jerusalem (which was destroyed for a second time in 70CE ) - with the establishment of the "heavenly" kingdom. When you come up against this type of reasoning (which is illogical) - what is there to say..... I just rest my case. And these people will be adamant that there is no proof for 607 and will quote all the defective sources to prove their case. It reminds me of the Christians of this world who believe that Israel has a major place in the outworking of God's purpose in future just because fleshly israel we re-established in 1948. Any case - referring to Russel - again and again - when this group of people were the (Elijah) who prepared the way for the slave in 1914 - as brought out in our new publication.... we have surely had much more light since then....... as signs since 1914 has proved. Any case - please answer: When is the fulfillment of Revelation 12: 7-13. No long answer needed ..... just give short answer - please.

Speaking to you is like speaking to a Muslim...... no proper chronology - and scriptures applied to elevate your own form of belief ...... and of course the constant OCD 'accusations'. You expect me to believe that an isolated person sitting in a room somewhere and touting tons of scriptures out of context (too many to address here and waste my time ) is the true light from God...... If you are part of a group of so-called enlightened ones (the truly 'clean' people of god as you are presenting yourself) - like you, they must be scattered on the earth in isolated locations - Question: how can they accomplish the preaching work which will be done in an organized way to ALL the earth before the end comes? Jehovah is a god of order not disorder.... I have asked this kind of question before and you do not answer me: where is the nation or the great crowd you have helped to produce..... I see you are not answering any of these kind of questions but instead you start quoting scriptures to try and indicate how corrupt and domineering the slave is. There is no logic in what you put forward.... and Jehovah is very logical. The muslims believe that Jesus is going to come back in the flesh to fight the war with the Jews and then he is going to die..... no reason given for the future death (he did not die before because God miraculously saved him).... just like that- no reasons given why Jesus did not die before and will have to come and die in future - no proper chronology that fit into each other - and one is expected to accept it because he is Allah (no logic). Jehovah is not illogical. Your chronology has NO logic..... it does not fit.... and half the prophecies can be thrown out with the way you present the dates. (Your way of thinking is to set yourself as a highly enlightened isolated member of the 144,000 who has been trod on by the rest of your brothers.....and your special insight has not been accepted) Chronology is important and also the reasons why Jehovah did every action (nothing was without an extremely good reason) - especially when dealing with Muslims one has to bring out the logic of each action of Jehovah. Why does Jehovah have a nation on earth today who is being trained as future subjects - and who is training them? isolated individuals? You are living in a bubble because the information you give is as inconsistent as the teachings in the Qur'an - it has all the hallmarks of someone who is using existing scriptures to promote their own trajectory - just like Mohammad - who used the Talmud and gospels to project his own version of the true reality.

No, but putting all your time and energy (and long debates) into dates which were synchronized with Egyptian dates (and trusting these dates) is an empty exercise like running after fluff ... Trying to prove that these dates are more accurate than those which have given us 1914 - and the purpose of all of this? To prove that the slave in NOT the slave! ... The best of it is: history on the ground is proving this date absolutely correct! So I do not think these people have 'myopia' I think they are blind or ignorant of modern history! .... As I said before - this slave has produced a NATION on earth which has developed such a spirit of goodwill that they are doing the preaching work for FREE. (To me, this is a miracle if one compares that to what is going on in the world today under secular and religious regimes). They are educating people to follow the principles of Jehovah without police having to patrol the streets. These people are being prepared as citizens of a new world where no-one will be telling another what to do. Our facilitators on earth will only serve - not rule. Complete freedom! Jehovah will remove people who pose a further threat to his purpose during the 1000 years - the judgment day! Social studies 101..... Many of the great philosophers of the past were trying to create such an utopia and failed. (French revolution and Russian revolution are 2 examples). Today JWs are indicating that a nation can live -in a wicked world- and show good intentions (altruism - without wanting anything back) to other human beings without having a visible government over them. ALL by free will! Yes - there are many faults amongst the people (like israel of old - imperfect people do what imperfect people get up to) but have you noticed lately how the elders are constantly reminded not to dominate? We, as a nation, are taught the principles of love, neutrality etc - so we can survive as a nation (no political or religious divisions) and obey by free will. They are preparing us to remain NEUTRAL at Armageddon - which will be a crucial test! There are people on this forum who are not part of this nation but pretend they are! BUT they are here to get you OUT of this nation and jibe at you for identifying as a JW and label you as a ........slave to the 'slave" in what they say....They treat us like ignorant fools as though we are not Bereans (like they think they are) - when it is they who are the stray cats with no good alternative to offer. Where is their NATION which the bible speaks of will be under Zion in the time of the end? 2 In the final part of the days,*The mountain of the house of JehovahWill become firmly established above the top of the mountains,+And it will be raised up above the hills,And to it all the nations will stream.+ 3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah,To the house of the God of Jacob.+ He will instruct us about his ways,And we will walk in his paths.”+ They use this forum for the purpose of so-called 'sophisticated' debate. Unfortunately I have seen no sophistication, not even good critical thinking - only a short-sighted pushing of personal ideas and debates on very old dates which were put down in stone in the early 19th century by the first Assyriologists. (not that I do not respect the work these people did at the time - I still have a few of their books in my library)..... BUT to base my everlasting life on the work of these people? I am more sophisticated than that ...... and I am proud to be part of the nation mentioned in Isaiah above! Not distress - one of my best friends (who was like a child to me) who left the truth and became an apostate had this same OCD symptoms I see in you and the same stubborn myopic view. It hurts me to see you hurting yourself and others around you..... and there is hate behind your words for the slave... calling them the lawless one! You do not even understand the history of Christianity.... ... and as I said before - the BIG picture is missing from your view (very short-sighted views, accusative and critical). Where did you learn about the 144000 and the future government? By yourself or from these same people that you now condemn and think you have more special insight than they..... yes - sad to say - your hate is shining through. I think you will be the first to betray the slave and will feel happy when they are destroyed ...... and what is more - you will rejoice when you see them get problems from the governments for their neutrality...... and you will think you are doing God a favour! .... as the scriptures indicate. Where is your nation (great crowd) that you have produced that will live through Armageddon - if you can prove this to me then I will look more closely at what you have to say..... bring me proof of your new world society that you have produced and where I can associate with them. I would also like to meet with them so I can do field service as the bible indicates will be done in the "entire world " for FREE in the time of the end (matt 24:14).

Yes - to talk about neutrality is a good way to go..... and to show that we are one unified nation on the earth.... waiting for a heavenly government. Jesus not coming back in the flesh.... I read rev 12 : 6-12 (excluding 11) and then talk about the signs on earth which indicates that Satan has been thrown down! (They of course think that satan has been here since the beginning - but the scripture indicates that the signs of the end started when he was ejected from heaven and a SHORT time left.... ) One cannot go wrong if you stick to the main theme of the bible..... I hope you meet more and give a good witness......

We are talking about lack of scientific evidence for these dates and how most of the humanities sciences are not worth much any more. Here is another example: Sciences for Middle Eastern studies and those sitting on the UNESCOs UN committee have already issued a ruling which stipulates that Israel has NO history in Jerusalem.! How historically correct is that? Can one call this science? ..... When there is ample proof that Rome destroyed Jerusalem in 70 CE ? So I would say it is relevant to the topic..... unless you have tunnel vision and cannot relate to anything else which puts more light on the subject by widening it out. If you put your trust in these departments and their professors - you are going to be misled!

Many true words spoken about science. This is why the so-called evidence for evolution is such a joke.... and they call it a 'science'. Many of the assumptions have not been thought through properly. The universities are in BIG trouble at present. Many scholars worth their salt are saying so. Young people are paying mega bucks for generic degrees and have insurmountable debt (that is never forgiven) and they sit with humanities degrees that is not even worth the paper they are written on. The Humanities usually carry universities but gender politics and social warriors for women studies and gender (which are not sciences) have taken over all the departments at great institutions. Most of the middle east departments have been taken over by Islam apologists (most of whom I think have not even read the Quran because their commentaries are sooo silly... and based on unrealistic assumptions (a better word for politically correct lies). The world is in trouble because the freedom of speech is oppressed at most schools of higher education at present and many of the humanities students get "triggered" by anything that is controversial. By the way, these philosophies are also taught in schools.... Universities have special rooms where 'gender raped' students can receive support for anything said (not done) which may emotionally trigger them to go crazy... and lecturers are losing their jobs for the simplest things. These departments are run by transgender professors who are now running the show and most of them are non-binary "gender-fluid". They do look very gender fluid to me - caricatures! .... and they have NO morals. They are teaching the youth that there is NO right and wrong; the Bible must be thrown in the garbage because patriarchal thinking is the cause of all the problems on earth.! Canada now has a law which recognizes more than 2 genders and this includes the 57 different genders identified by state departments ......and they say that "biology" has nothing to do with gender.... lol - very scientific!! People can lose their jobs if they do not recognize the request of a fluid person to be called by one of these transgender pronouns. (doctors, nurses, legal people, teachers etc). There is a legal battle on at the moment about this because the law organization wants to force every legal person and citizen to accept this. It is in one state at present but is ready to be introduced everywhere! These students will get out of university soon ( they are also part of ANTIFA and similar very militant organizations which remind me of the bolsjeviks in Russia and Robespierre of the French revolution (very dangerous) - they want all those in power to go - be eliminated - well this is how some of their leaders talk! They want a revolution ... because anyone with power (mostly men) represent oppression! If I recall how many people died in the French revolution and the Russian revolution (This was 40 million alone when one includes the people killed by Stalin). I can see where this is heading if the authorities do not get a grip on it. We are facing extreme times..... close to the end. Within a few years we can really be facing the biggest crisis the earth has ever seen because this time round the technology for killing is bigger than ever before and the different revolutionaries are sitting at the heart of almost every country and pulling strings. Wicked organizations and bad people (with billions) who benefit by chaos are also putting large amounts of money into these revolutionary organizations. It is crazy what is going on and the governments cannot contain this wild thinking and actions.

You have exposed yourself in what you said above. You have NO love for Jehovah's nation and do not understand their teachings. What are you doing on a forum like this? Only to find a following for yourself or sow doubt? Why not go to other Christian websites? Why here? Because you have a compulsive hate and frustration within you that must be fulfilled by association with specifically .... JWs. Why do you need this association? Because you are very much alone and NOT part of a world-wide congregation which was predicted for the last days. You are NOT part of that 'nation' which would be under invisible rule. This association would be doing the world-wide preaching work of that invisible kingdom rule.... This good news would be preached in all the world before the end.......Matt 24:14. And what is more .... it would be done by a great army of volunteers..... who give the life giving water FREE (Rev 22). Where is your world-wide congregation which is doing this? Oh yes - I remember - you have twisted the scriptures before on this forum to show that there would NOT be a group of people who would work unitedly together to do this....because you then will have to acknowledge the slave..... despite scriptures about the last days indicating this work will be done world-wide - spearheaded by a discreet slave... I have asked you before - where do you go to meetings to fulfill the obligation given us in Hebrews to attend meetings...... do you hold your own? And how is your congregation organized to give life's word free across many nations? Working in the Muslim field has really strengthened my convictions because I have had to re-evaluate the scriptures and compare it with the falsehoods out there in other Christian denominations and that which Muslims believe. I use scriptures that most Christians do not even notice... Satan was sneaky - like most apostates he just twists the truth. He took the scriptures of Jehovah and came up with a nation that would rule the earth so that Jesus can come back. At Armageddon Jesus would come back in the flesh and fight the false-Christ the Dajjal and his rebellious Jews- (in shi'ah eschatology) Yes - the religion of peace does believe that the entire world must fall under Muslim control for the government of Allah to bring peace on earth.... They believe they are the nation that at present time is doing the work of Allah and most Muslims would justify the use of the literal sword - if needed. Many learn only the nice things in the Mosque and are not aware of the extremely violent history of Mohammad because it has been kept away from them..... but ask them about the government - they will tell you it has to be an earthly government under Allah. They think they are the only nation of God on earth. (Sunni and Shi'a hate each other - but suddenly become united if there is a threat to nationalistic islam - a reason there will NEVER be peace if they gain control of the earth - the sanctified use of violence and the hate of each other). All Jews must be killed - it is stated many times in the Qur'an and Christians must pay jizyah tax if they do not convert (and this tax goes up until they cannot pay) They are surprised when I tell them there is another 'nation' on earth speaking more than 2000 languages and already living in cooperation and harmony. Not perfect yet - but they willingly obey god out of free will and are no part of the political systems of the earth because they do not vote or fight (with the sword) for any human government - be it secular or religious. They are a morally clean nation and do not participate in any idolatry or pagan rituals. (Muslims believe that all Christians are idolaters with paganisms and very immoral.) Only one wife is allowed and faithfulness to one wife is essential and adultery is not tolerated (they think all westerners have no morals when it comes to sex). Witnesses are neutral - do not take sides in earthly disputes. Arab and Jew attend meetings together and work together in the field to sow the truth about the future Kingdom government. This "nation" on earth are already preparing people to live under the future Kingdom rule when strict LAW will be no more (Abraham was NOT under law and yet received the favor of God). We are now under the new LAW of love and the principles that Jesus taught (which are stronger than the Sharia law) because these principles teach self-control and self-regulation - a strong component of the teachings of Jesus. I also show that the invisible kingdom is already ruling and a world-wide education is being done so people can follow these principles by free will - which teach, if you look at a woman too much you have already committed adultery in your heart. If you hate another - you are already a murderer. (women love this!) We do not have leaders which rule by 'control ' and fatwas ... but we have elders which are being prepared/educated to only be loving shepherds... facilitating and helping/serving the sheep-like ones. We look like stupid, non-violent, sheep to others but we have Jehovah's protection who is the one who can give us a resurrection and compensate us for anything lost. We therefore do not fear violent persons. We help people to prepare and strengthen themselves for the final violent confrontations expected on earth in future. On occasion (in this time before 1000 year reign), these elders are vigilant to keep the congregation clean from false teachings, bad influences and immorality. Apostates / homosexuals and adulterers are not killed but are sent back into the world for God to deal with them. They are accepted back - only if they change their ways. It is only the right of God to kill another because he can see the heart (they all agree with this!). We are all taught the principles that will bring much freedom but much more personal responsibility. We do not need human Imams (with their morality police) to kill and flog those who dare to break spiritual authority. We do not vote and get involved with politics (Islam is a political, highly nationalistic religion). The worldly governments are there to bring the punishment for murder etc. I love the fact that I can compare the two world-wide nations that are now on earth. The two are in stark contrast. Yes - Jehovah's people are not perfect but they are united and in cooperative harmony when the world (and its religions) is becoming increasingly divided and violent. (If not violent - they teach claptrap. Here in Sweden a law was brought in recently by the church which says that God is not a HE - so this pronoun is not correct). If you know of any other world-wide nation I am unaware of - please let me know..... Jehovah's in his foresight has led the way - so we can use our existence as a NATION together with scriptures to inspire loyalty to his future kingdom which will remove all sin from earth under a kingdom of priests. The fact that we can already be in peace (one nation from many nations) -without strict laws and police to enforce this - proves we are the people of God and harmony is possible on earth in future under invisible heavenly rule. How is this unity possible? The united effort under the slave who use their resources to educate everyone under their jurisdiction! Muslims are amazed when they understand that we do not need a literal government or harsh rulers/police to control our morality... Pity they have so much fear for their fellow Muslims...when I say this.... most westerners do not understand the power that islam has over their subjects and how much injustice they just have to accept as the will of God or be killed.... (in majority muslim countries of course) but in the west we still see a lot of honor killings..... and rule by fear which keep those who want to leave in a fearful condition. We have a lot to thank Jehovah for - too much....in comparison to other religions.

I can see you have not been to meetings lately - or you have been sitting there daydreaming of your own wonderful theories regarding proof of your own infallibility regarding the non-existence of 1914.... and how you are going to try to get a following on this website so they can reflect your own perfect spirituality/wisdoms. On the other hand, I have been attending meetings and very few of them have been about the date of 1914. Most have been about applying the scriptures to daily living, meekness and humility. Many have been very interesting in the light of what we can expect during Armageddon..... How to stay neutral and not get involved in this world. Of course - if you were part of the slave (the ones who you believe like to glorify themselves) - we would get exciting new food every week (wonderful life-giving MANNA) that would be absolutely mind boggling! So we would never hear a rehash of 1914. This to me is so strange because all I see here on this forum is an OCD rehash of the 1914 issue every time I open up my computer to come to this website .......and NO new interesting thoughts I can really think about. Is this all this band of renegades can talk about? So please do not accuse the slave of the very thing which you are doing ALL the time! Just thinking of ONE thing. Satan was the big rebel and was accusing Christs brothers all the time! I see the same here with the so-called intellectuals using "innocent intellectual discussion" to pull the slave apart at every opportunity available to them - and using the word of God in the most deceiving way to say so! Self-sacrificing love means that we should not expect anything from no-one. .. just give of ourselves with no return. Our love should not be "hypocritical". This is the secret to true happiness. Most of the people offering their brilliant contrary claims to the slave on this forum and who accuse the slave of making a throne for themselves in the temple of God, (if I read the intent of the scripture quoted correctly), these brilliant historians - openly DENY that Babylonian and Assyrian timelines have been synchronized with the Egyptian timeline - so they do not know themselves where these dates come from! I have news for you -the Hittite timelines have also been synchronized with Egyptology. This is why Dr David Rohl (and others) are on a quest to prove the timeline WRONG! And this is the reason he is receiving so much opposition in the Egyptology departments because most of the Middle East histories have been synchronized and the Egyptian timeline because of the wars that went on amongst all these different nations. This would mean that most of the PHDs done in the past 150 years are inaccurate! So why waste your time on this myopic quest and focus on the bigger picture - the theme of the Bible and how the government which is already ruling - invisibly - according to revelation 12 is fulfilling bible prophecy. How this heavenly government is ruling from Zion over ONE nation and teaching these people (in the last days) to forge their weapons into agricultural weapons. How they are united in the preaching work which is being accomplished in all the earth - by one organization ONLY. They are the only ones who knows how this government is going to function..... but I guess you have problems with that too! This is why we needed many SIGNS - to pin point when the kingdom has started ruling INVISIBLY and we also needed a timeline of the world governments - given in Daniel - to gauge the time. Timelines of world governments and of Jehovah's government! Daniel 7 also tells how Jesus would come before the ancient of old (in heaven) to receive his Kingdom! Jehovah provides - but many are too blind to see it.. thanklessness.....to what Jehovah has given us. I do not 'argue' about genealogies but I do use it to show Muslims that Jesus is the only one with a proven history (genealogy) from Adam until his birth - which makes him the true "messenger" from God. The ideology Jesus preached is also the only ideology that can bring peace to the earth....if everyone willingly follows it. (I use this to speak to atheists as well - by comparing it to human philosophies). Genealogies and chronology (together with the history of israel as a nation and after this the history of the Christians) is very important to become a mature Christian - to follow the continuity of the outworking of Jehovah's purpose. If one knows about project management one will understand how the great "project manager" (Jehovah) has managed his affairs in heaven and on earth (without intervening too much into earthly affairs). He only intervened when it was absolutely necessary; only when the 'final outcome' of his final purpose would be in jeopardy. He intervened with a flood for instance when his purpose could have been thwarted by Satan and his demons. He also intervened at Babylon with languages - he had very good reasons for doing so. He intervened with a dream when the parents of Jesus fled to Egypt to preserve Jesus's life - also important to preserve his purpose. Logic and continuity is very important in the timeline and this is why the prophecies and their fulfillment (relating to the timeline) is important. Ephesians 1:9 talks about how the purpose has been administered throughout the ages. While I will not debate over little silly things in the timeline - I have come to realize that it is highly important to understand that the bible is the ONLY reality on earth - and the only book which provides absolute reality and continuity.... every little thing fits into the predicted patterns ... and a timeline.... to the minutest detail. This is why I see the bible as the only "reality" on earth..... and this is why I defend the timeline as presented by the slave - because it is logical and fits in with the purpose when one studies it in a logical way. I am studying this at present... and it is fascinating....

Thanks Nana - I was a coloratura soprano.... I only sing a few of the solo pieces by Handel now that I am 65 years old. These arias were too low for me when I was younger. Handel's soprano pieces were written for castrati. Men sang female parts in those days! You therefore need a long breath for the phrases - something which castrati could easily cope with! Back to our discussion: I find it so silly that persons on this forum say that a dream by a foreign king cannot represent Jehovah's kingdom - that it will be cut off for seven periods to be ruled by "gentiles" and then restored. People here think they know Jehovah better than he knows himself - they think he would not use an image like that!!! But to my mind it is perfect! You see - most gentile kings were often assassinated by family members or their own sons who wanted to take the rulership. Jehovah perfectly preserved Nebuchadnezzar's kingship for him for 7 years - which is really remarkable - the same as he 'guaranteed the continuity' of the Davidic line. It helps us to see Jehovah's hand in the outworking of his purposes. For what reason would Jehovah preserve a foreigner's personal rulership? .... if it was not to use it as a picture of something. Nebuchadnezzar was a nasty tyrant! His children could easily have taken his place and kept the family line going until the end of the 70 years. (If I remember correctly Neriglissar was murdered- he only ruled for 4 years.) Jehovah had a purpose for the dream just as he had a purpose for the dreams which Joseph had for a foreign pharaoh. There are many examples in the bible where Jehovah used 'unsuitable' people for prophetic pictures. I recall that Jehovah told a prophet to marry a whore and then forgive her whoring ways - she would produce sons who were not his. This would be prophetic of the behavior of israel. According to the person's thinking above - Jehovah would never do that! So we better throw out these bits of the bible .... Most of Daniel is prophetic anyway..... with history interwoven between the various visions and dreams. Any case - as I demonstrated above - these people totally disregard the realities on the ground and keep on with 'debates' about unimportant bits (which they of course feel are more important that reality!) The reality is that there is no other alternative to explain what respected historians have called " the year the world changed - 1914". They never seem to answer these questions - just ramble on in their own worn out path..... Sifting out the gnats (the small bits in their close sightedness) and swallowing all the cockroaches! Missing out on the bigger picture!

Thanks Nana - I reread both articles - Cyrus is known as the first person to show 'human rights' because he tolerated all other religions..... and participated in their rituals (just like Alexander the Great later did). He was anointed for the job (to send israel back to their land) by Jehovah and it is amazing how he came from a very small insignificant kingdom to become such a powerful ruler almost overnight. Jehovah overshadowed him because he was a brilliant diplomat - winning over many of the smaller persian tribes to unite. By talking to all the troops (when his Median grandfather came up against him in war) he managed to unite them as well. After he did the job for Jehovah (Babylon fell) he became power hungry and made war father to the North. The date of Cyrus' death is confirmed.... so from there it is easy to count back.... To add to the information above - I read a book about the last war Cyrus participated in (quite a few years ago) - He died at the hands of a woman soldier (who came from the Amazonian tribes to the north). One ghastly thing I remember was reading about these tribes and their customs. When a person felt old and wanted to die - the person would let themselves be killed and the rest of the tribe would eat the person at a party. This was the kind of people who became the nemeses of Cyrus. I love to read how the spirit of Jehovah was active in all these instances and made things happen overnight..... So I trust Jehovah to lead his people in our time as well. Collectively - Jehovah's spirit is working on all the humble ones. Not the smart and the intelligent - but the humble ones. Moses must have been well educated but after working with sheep for 40 years he felt himself too incompetent to speak to the Pharaoh. These are the kind of people Jehovah uses. It boggles the mind. If an elder does not push his own individuality- it gives the Holy Spirit a better chance to work in the group. I know that all have not yet leant this but I have seen how elders accomplish much more by true humility. This is also true of the date 1914. It was not mere luck - it was Jehovah's spirit. Something our skeptics do not understand. All the signs are here of the severe distress that is coming over the earth like a fog and it will settle like gloom when human organizations are no longer capable to provide any comfort or protection.