Arauna

I worked as a reporter and then as a public relations officer for a few large organizations - sitting in on all the board meetings etc. to publicize the companies' strategy. I speak from a worldly perspective - a business perspective. I would not keep redundant workers if my business suffered. Companies do not exist to be a gravy train - but people expect the JW organization to be NICE and IN-efficient - just because it is a spiritual organization? They expect the organization to keep on "supporting certain individuals" even if their job has become obsolete?..... With money that other witnesses pay for furthering the preaching work? What makes this individual so special that he gets supported for life but thousands of other volunteers in the field have to work hard and do their preaching without assistance from the GB. Everyone knows when they enter Bethel that it may be for a long time or a short time but their tenure is not assured.... it is volunteer work after all. They can leave any time..... Personal vendettas and these kind of things have no place in the organization. We are not different to other people - the same as everyone else. The only difference is that one cannot remain a Witness without Jehovah's spirit. So, if for some reason you have neglected your relationship with Jehovah it will show in a bad attitude! ....especially towards others..... You start beating on brothers. I know of very few brothers and sisters who have not had reason to complain...about some perceived unfairness...by someone.... because this world is not perfect and not all brothers act as they should..... but most forgive and get on with the work and keep the unity. Other people turn nasty and pamper their victimhood! Like an obstructive child!

Watched your video - first of all - they have not built and sold and built and sold buildings. Those buildings in Brooklyn were the head-offices since they acquired them until now. They needed to get out of that area. I read and article which explained this. Technology has changed and so has logistics. Many of the films are outsourced to different branches. We have much less magazines being printed now. Every branch gets a video to produce - and why is he politicizing this? It is easier for the GB to delegate. We are not an American company. Our branches are registered all over the world - it is law. The GB only oversee the most important function - the food at proper time - and delegate this! So we are an international organization. I smell a nationalistic USA-rat in these comments and you fell for it hook line and sinker! When one serves Jehovah one chooses a life-long career and serves 'where ever' you can. If one goes to serve in the building area you get skills you did not have before and can go and open a small business of your own afterward. Most pioneers (outside Bethel) do not have that! They get by on part-time work wherever they can find it to do the preaching work. I do not see them whining! BUT the other side of the coin is: some opportunistic individuals want to get into Bethel so they can have a long and "secure" career while getting a roof over their head and a plate of food every day. I am sorry, my heart does not cry for someone who professes to have had all the right motives and then after he is let go, shows that he did not have all the right motives after all - and then lets a brother go and smear his brothers as if they have done him a grave injustice! It reminds me of Cain..... Jehovah told him to not let the evil control him.... and he did not get control of it. Now this poor soul has to work for a living like everyone else! After being in a cozy institutionalized position he is angry because it is not perpetuated! When you let people go it is usually the ones who are not bringing their full share or do jobs that are no longer needed - am I right? Any company in the world works this way. Why should they tolerate hangers-on who is more of a burden than an asset? His attitude may have got him fired... so whiney and this brother gave him all the wrong advice - he is not a helpless individual..... he must stand up and be a man. Most pioneers clean buildings to pioneer! I know several of them - and they do it cheerfully! You do not need skills for that. He can do that. .... but no .... he is whining because he now has a "reality" hitting him and he has to take responsibility for his own life! We are living in the 21 century - technology changing all the time. When there was a lot of printing to do (in 20th century) it was the case that they looked after you until after retirement! He wants the world-wide brothers pay for his keep until he dies because he willingly donated some of his time to them? My advice to him.... grow up and be a man! And your deviant personality is showing by posting this video! You have no wisdom- only some knowledge! Revelation is misapplied.... like many of your other scriptures quoted. You think because you intimate that you are anointed that you have special skills or "insight" that no-one else has. You forget - there is a final sealing before the end. Now you find yourself without a congregation - and there is an instruction from Jehovah to meet with brothers in Hebrews 10. You are not keeping this command - be aware of that! There are many other commands you are breaking by "beating your brothers" publically. If I put myself in your shoes- say if you were right on many things - you are still running ahead...... We have instruction from Jesus not to do this. You are stuck on you own ego and having to be "right" and be praised for having the organization change to your special insights! You reject their correction and willfully go ahead with your own ideas. Soft-spoken and willful. (I had some ideas of my own...... but I have held them back..... I have not run ahead of the organization...... just like Jesus did.) He had no ego because he only spoke what his father had given him and he served perfectly until death. Satan wanted undue attention and his desires got him in the position he is in today. It was not about "truth" to him was about being the one with the special light! You have the same attitude I see with many apostates. You ignore the bits you do not want to see and just answer the bits you can and then you go around and around on the same track and mislead those who fall for your ideas. I call it the one mind track - the nihilistic and destructive track. I believe that wisdom is knowledge which is applied - not just knowledge! I agree with the brothers - there is time to look at yourself or go ahead on your destructive path! And admit it - by posting this video your hate is showing. John said: without love for brothers it is impossible to please Jehovah!

I usually try to disprove ideas.... but sometimes one cannot help notice that it is always the same people who display downright hostility to our organization in their words. NO personal offense but I have called you out on occasion because I am protective of the newbies on here that may be taken in by the thoughtless words expressed. Also - I am sincere when I say that I hope all to attain life and feel it is my responsibility to assist others to see when they rant on too much about their personal pet-criticisms. No skin lost, I hope.

No - this verse indicates that God hates people burning in fire..... I was referring to your comment about being roasted...... I mean burned at the stake.....! So who is vitriolic here?

Jer 7:31

The proof will be in the eating of the pudding will it not? Reminds me of the illustration - two people fighting over who has the best room on the Titanic...... mean while the boat is sinking....variation don't matter when you need a real life boat.

One thing I have noticed with people who have no regard for Jehovah and his organization on this forum - they are fixated on their own selfish needs and ideas and expect everyone to jump to their demands. Learn to SEARCH the internet. You will definitely a translation there somewhere! The only problem is: you may not be able to say it is 100% true as people all have agendas - but then you have your own. Enjoy your searching! The GB is here to provide spiritual food not serve every self-willed individual's whims. I get it - these people hate Jehovah but cannot stay away from the association they get here! If their lives were so together as they try and make out they would not waste it on people who they do not fit in with.

Depends on your goal with this forum. If the subject is not a good one - people will wander quicker off track... and like any discussion at a table where people sit around a cup of coffee things jump around.... unless one wants to keep it formal like a newspaper. Since we are supposed to encourage one another, personal feelings together with ideas (right or wrong) will also become part of the discussion and these will need to be addressed.

Seems you are full of judgment my dear!... and without proof too! It is a banket statement - condemning ALL of them in one swoop. Tut-tut. Does the Bible not say that those who judge have put themselves in Gods place? James 4:11-12King James Version (KJV) 11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? I suspect - if you were innocent - your attitude was not mild - you went down with a fight did you not? So why not acknowledge your bad attitude and start over with a more humble spirit? I have done it myself - justified my actions and declared myself self-righteous.. just like Job. James 3: 13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. JWs serve Jehovah but we acknowledge that Jehovah is directing his organization and making sure that the preaching work is now done earth wide. Mat 24:14 is a prophecy that only JWs are fulfilling earth-wide in the time of the end. This is a prophecy about the time of the end is it not? No other organization even understands what the kingdom government is. They do not even believe that it has started ruling in the heavens....invisibly. They still believe that all are going to heaven and the wicked will burn forever in a hell? Do you want to join those people ? Or be associated with Jehovah's people and show a more humble spirit. Who appointed you as the slave? You must be able to identify the slave because the bible asks: "Who is the slave?" matt 24:14 Do you feel you understand the Truth better than they do? have you understood on your own that there is no hell? Did you understand on your own that Jesus poured out his "soul" in death for three days and was resurrected by Jehovah? The Bible shows that the one that does not accept that Jesus came in the flesh is the anti-Christ.... iJohn 1:2 I think you should re-think your position and realize you are in dangerous waters. Yes, the shepherds are imperfect people like everyone else - just like Moses - who also had weaknesses. Do you remember how Korah lead a rebellion against Moses and said to him that he thinks too much of himself and Jehovah is not using him? Did Jehovah not take Korah and his followers out - even thought they professed to be servants of the true god Jehovah - But their attitude was haughty and rebellious? We do respect our shepherds because Jehovah is using them - but the only one we worship is Jehovah through his son, Jesus Christ. If you read Genesis you will find that Jehovah warned Cain of his attitude and told him that he must become a master over it.... He did not and became a murderer...... therefore watch what you say... Jesus watched his words when speaking to satan: Jude 9-10King James Version (KJV) 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. If we cooperate with our shepherds we are making their job easy - it does not mean that we worship them. We also accept that they keep the congregation clean from corrupting influences because this is the job that Jehovah gave them. Hebrews 13:17King James Version (KJV) 17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Maybe you have a problem with authority? It is time to scrutinize yourself....

If they remain clean and without defilement they are OK. Any subversive behavior, and other elders will look into it. ... and he/them may get "fired". I have read stories on this forum how people were let go from Bethel. No-one is above this.... and if they take too long to act..... Jehovah will! Read the letters to the seven congregations in book of Revelation. Jehovah and Jesus are watching everything..... Yes He is slow to anger - so trust HIM that he will sort things (if it is needed ) at the right time. Of course he is not hypercritical as some people are - he remembers that we are flesh. Some brothers are hypercritical when things are not done in the way they suggest. Too much fleshly thinking out here..... People do not trust Jehovah. I have lived a long life in the truth and I have seen oppressive brothers and how they were given time to change..... but in the end Jehovah maneuvered things so cliques were destroyed. As long as you just do what is right and not contribute with your death-dealing mouth to breaking down other people's faith! Things sort themselves out without our own "important" views of when and how things should be managed.

LOL

Of course MOST people think they are the meekest MOST humblest people on earth. We just love to bluff ourselves to get out of facing reality. As James said - we look in the mirror and then look away and forget what we saw. Maybe we just give up too soon!

Nothing is perfect in this system, so one cannot assume that everything will be perfect in the congregation either. This is why Jesus said we must forgive and be prepared to be hurt sometimes.... and still forgive. To give for the sake of giving and expect nothing in return. To give cooperation as far as possible is important because anyone can (at times) abuse their power. A child who is difficult at home has power over the entire family and can make life hard. Similar to a wife who does not cooperate with her husband is abusing the power she has over him. We can go beyond our power in the congregation too and overstep subtle lines we are not supposed to - especially if one feels entitled for some reason or other. In a group situation difficult behavior is a bit harder to maintain without censure all around because one will find that people will avoid you, especially if one is subtly critical or offensive. Even though we are supposed to forgive and forget one will find that in practice it is hard for people to deliberately walk into "trouble" if they know that they will not be able to respond to overbearing or critical remarks. Many people are not equipped for this dynamic. I can usually deal with this and I like to sound my new ideas off others but there are days when I will avoid someone who is always a sour ass. There was one woman in my previous group whom had been a diabetic for many years and she was known to everyone to be rude. We put up with her..... but it was by sheer kindness and a determination to be so. My heart used to sink when she was assigned to work with me. Most of my encounters with her were not pleasant to say the least and I was so glad when it was over and I had left her presence on a pleasant footing. Every encounter was a painful time to not say anything she could take up in the wrong way. She was a kind of a tyrant. So, yea, these are the realities we deal with. I also knew that her disease together with a spoilt/privileged upbringing was the reason for this. She was an unhappy individual and this helped me to feel pity for her at times. I have met some of the governing body and they are just people - very busy and not pandering to popular appeal - which I think is good! However, I do not agree with you that they are lovers of power. I agree with you that one may find an individual in a congregation who may love rules because one can enforce rules and get a sense of power from it. But this is a weakness - not a strength! This type of person will take a guideline and make a rule out of it...... to feel righteous by keeping the rule. If you fall victim to this - bear with it until Jehovah sorts it out. I have often seen this type of problem sorted out but it needs trust in Jehovah and not a personal rebellion or intervention. This is a recipe for disaster to yourself if you do not have patience. So one can seal your own lot as a negative person if one does not work hard to put on the "new personality." To put on the new personality does not mean that we may not think and have a sharp brain regarding philosophy, or other forms of knowledge. It means that we will have wisdom as to when we use this information and how we use it and when and how we express it. I love to speak to atheists and use most of the knowledge I have accumulated to use in the field. Or I bounce it off those brothers/sisters who can deal with my type of information without a critical view. Some kinds of people just cannot handle some kinds of information! They will judge you - so learn to distinguish who to speak to about things. I have also learnt the skill to present new information in a palatable way - which helps in my work in the field. By the way - I am not saying here - be like me. I am just saying we all learn all the time and some of us do not have the most conformist of personalities. So we have to learn to be adaptable. You have a critical personality. I can see from your comments. Although you like to present yourself as rational - there are times when I think you are out of whack! or downright severed from reality. But if you want to come closer to Jehovah - you have to apply yourself to put on the new personality - as we learn over this weekend in the Watchtower study. I know it is hard to navigate this world and some of us have non-conformist type of personalities....... but one has to pummel your body to do so. Those who do not stumble by correction will receive the crown of life. By the way - I have a family member who is dis-fellowshipped and has made no effort to come back. I send him money because he has run into problems. But I restrict communication with him because it is requested by John (under direction of Holy Spirit) to do so. "Do not greet or eat with anyone who brings these false teachings. " Hence - it is a matter of being obedient to God or to be your own God to decide what to do. It is only rebellious people or unrepentant ones who are dis-fellowshipped. The problem is not with Jehovah's instruction - the problem is with them! If he shows humility and comes back and shows a spirit to try to improve - then he will be a good association again. Most who do not come back have a problem with pride! or are self-willed.

Having been a reporter in my salad days - I have seen the disgusting articles they call "reporting" these days. I did not read your reporter's article because I guess it singles out the JWs...... which is acceptable in the climate of the reporting world these days....... Leave out all the relevant information and only focus on the ONE you want to malign. This is true of politics or any subject these days. It is not pure reporting because there is a "spin" on everything. You are well aware that other organizations were also part of this inquiry and that it was not only JWs who were brought in to testify. The authorities wanted to investigate the different procedures which organizations were following in the past, so that they could close the legal gaps which still exist in the legal system. Their report will definitely not conclude: the legal system has been remiss in providing qualified investigators or psychologists to deal with reported cases. No, they will of course focus on large organizations who have been trying to deal with cases themselves for the past 40 years. You are also well aware that there are many organizations who have NOT even tried to deal with child abuse cases such as boy scouts and sports clubs, to name only two sectors of society. Mr. Rook we have been on this forum for about 2 years and you have been on threads which discuss child abuse and you must have seen at least one of my contributions which have highlighted the facts that there were no proper laws in place to get convictions in cases of child abuse. Even if JWs told the police about these cases (without a law in place to compel reporting of the matter) the infrastructure in most first world countries was not in place to assist the child and get a testimony on camera with a proper psychologist to assure the child was not coached (in divorce cases). And most importantly: to ensure the child does not become an awful victim for a second time by being cross-examined in court and having to face the perpetrator in court - who often is someone they know and love. Self-appointed social warriors like you, which advertise their overbearing sense of justice, are usually the ones who are insensitive and have not made sure of their facts regarding the victims of a crime. The country you live in (USA, I presume) had laws, which protect the child, instituted as late as 2003..... yet people like you and most reporters judge most large organizations by these new laws and do not compare it with the inadequate laws, which were in place for 40 years prior to that. In the late 70s there was an awakening in the press when people (for the fist time) started talking publically about child abuse. Before this time the subject was taboo. It was the sex revolution of the 60s which made it possible for people to openly start talking about sex. Only much later, the first inefficient laws were put in place (in first world countries) but cases were rarely reported and cases rarely ended in conviction. Organizations who wished to confront the issue, handled it themselves. Other organizations did not care because there were no proper laws in place to warrant a reporting of a crime. When reporting became obligatory - only I some countries, large organizations were to stop handling it themselves..... yes, it is true our organization was slow to respond in these countries because the laws are so different in many countries (and the taboo of talking about private things were still set in many peoples minds)....Our organization has rectified tis problem and we have legal representatives to advise on the various laws in each country. Did you know - many countries now have laws in place BUT they are not even followed up by the police - even if reported. The elders still handle these cases to try to get justice for the victim and clean the congregation of wickedness. Have you seen the scandals in the UK where people were reporting sex crimes against young teenagers to the police for the past 16 years and NOTHING happened because the police were afraid of being accused of racism/islamophobia? This year there has been some convictions of large sex rings because of the outcry........ ON the other hand - an old case which was badly handled by elders many years back before reporting was obligatory (child sex abuse is so difficult to prove as its nature is secret and perpetrators deny it - so special skills are needed to convict) received unending coverage by the TV and press. Would you like your child to be interrogated by either a policeman or a psychologist if they are abused? Even today the psychologists /infrastructure is not always available to assist in many first world countries. In these old cases people complain that it was inadequately handled by elders. At least they tried to help but could not find enough evidence. As I said above... the nature of the crime is secret and it is hard to be sure without being an expert. One must be careful to judge these cases too quickly - especially in nasty divorce cases. There are two sides to every case. In many of these old emerging cases I doubt the legal system would have got them a conviction either..... but at least they now have made BIG money off of it.... So, make sure of your facts before you accuse the Witnesses of injustice and condoning wickedness. As far as possible we try to remove the wicked one from amongst us. And from my past experience regarding your comments on this forum - Mr. Rook, you are the first to condemn the witnesses for shunning the wicked ones who show no repentance.

I just find it so sad when people DEMAND so much from the GB without thinking that they are here primarily to disperse "spiritual food". I recall that a brother on this same website made a translation from Russian available as the Russian supreme court case was progressing. Why did people not watch it when it was available? I did. I stopped watching/reading when I read that they were not allowing relevant evidence from the JW's to be presented which confirmed my suspicion that the court case was a total sham! The evidence from the Russian Orthodox church was accepted! Russia has never changed. Perestroika was a sham! Study the history of Russia and you will realize that the communist agenda is alive an well in many of the -isms (philosophies which are now the backbone of society instead of the right and wrong from the bible) - all these --isms are controlling the lawmaking in the West. Read up about the Frankfort school and how this and subsequent philosophies have undermined the morals of the west. Some call it "cultural communism." The sexual revolution, extreme feminism, gay rights and now the equality warriors (with 57 different types of genders) are all part of it! I read recently - the thinking now is: if one was born gay - and this is now legal - there are people who are born as child-molesters as well. In California the age of consent has changed to 14 years and an organization to fight for the rights of child molesters was allowed (by law) to practice and lobby a few weeks ago. We are going back to the time of the Canaanites it seems where everyone will be able to do as they feel as long as they do not go against the government. Soon our Christian rights will be curbed in the West as the extreme far right (in some countries) and the extreme far left (ruling in Europe, Canada) and their extreme policies are both devastating to the future of ALL civilization in the West as we have known it the last 100 years. Christians will become the scourge of the earth! Mathew did not warn us of persecution for nothing......

This is crazy! Beyond common sense. You can lose your job or be taken to court if you forget one of the 58-67 gender types (whatever the number they have in the legislation) - and this is more criminal than deliberately giving another person AIDS? Why not just make it "other". Why must we start to differentiate people on their sexual preferences and surgery histories? Well, we all know this types of madness is part of the time of the end because there is no more "right or wrong" behavior. Everything in "subjective" - like beauty.

The focus is misplaced! Our loyalty is to Jehovah and Jesus only. If we accept that the slave is being used by Jehovah we will do all in our power to keep our lives free from wrong and cooperate with them and make sure we do not contribute to Jehovah (and the people associated with his name) to be dragged through the mud! ... Unfortunately - We are all (no matter how faithful we think we are) full of deviation (miss the mark ) - this is the reality of life! If we do not recognize this fact, then we say we have no sin! Then we do not need the ransom sacrifice. MY brother was in prison for the truth as a young man - he did not mention the offenses to me - but he told me that he was disgusted with some bad habits he saw there which are human deviations and take time to get rid of. When people live in close proximity under stressful conditions these things tend to come to the surface. Seriously wrong things also occurred and people were dis-fellowshipped and other brothers had to avoid them. This created an extremely difficult situation for all. To my mind a place like Bethel is not a natural way of living and hence it is only a place for the strong. One can see the frailty of human deviation and personality defects up-front - and it may come as a shock to the inexperienced person on the road of life. However, some are prepared to make the sacrifice to go and serve there. However, we make it a kind of prestige thing - which is wrong. The wish to service is a wonderful motivation but the underlying culture of prestige is wrong. This demonstrates the quick way in which humans like to put themselves on pedestals or want to think of themselves as the cream of the crop. Then they are shocked to see and discover feet of clay! It takes great effort to stay humble because our imperfection makes us always come up with ways to justify ourselves or make us think we are "good". This is why I always avoid giving honor to people who came from Bethel and hate it when I hear others do this. Often they have a superior attitude which I find telling. I used to call them the spiritual elite because they act in that sinful way - but have stopped doing that. We are all - just "people" like everyone else who is NOT serving Jehovah. The only way we are different to others:- we have been privileged to learn the future plans of Jehovah and dedicated ourselves Him and left the most debased of sins. However, we need to "progress" with the help of the holy spirit. If we only have a little bit of that spirit or we do not make an effort to ask and receive it and work in harmony with it - then we can soon find ourselves deviating from what is right. I believe we can only stay in the truth if we have Jehovah's spirit......and some seem to barely make it because they are focusing more on other things - be it personal goals or just the stress of raising a family. All people are imperfect. The problem is that we have pink glasses on regarding our brothers when they actually are people who are fighting their own bad inclinations all the time. Yes we expect a high level of change in their lives and would like to think them perfect when they are not. Two of the anointed in the time of the apostles dropped down dead after they had lied about the properties they had sold. One anointed person was dis-fellowshipped because he had slept with his mother! ....and others were not condemning it! Some of our brothers who get dis-fellowshipped have committed multiple sins - not just one - and then to crown it become rebellious when they are corrected! Judas was sinning over a long period of time! before he betrayed him. I do not want to sound preachy - but we all know this - but we tend to have a blind eye to this. We have to be very forgiving sometimes - be a bit more like Jehovah - who has seen all the wickedness right throughout mankind's history and that of his people (from ancient times till now). We do have good examples in the Bible - but many of them also had serious flaws. So when we see this we know that Jehovah is truly merciful and we keep on because we know that he is aware that we are imperfect flesh. He knows when we are sincere and doing all that is necessary to progress. So - the expectation that others must be without serious flaw is fundamentally wrong!

You're right - I do not care and I have lost interest in reasonings going in circles. The sources about the Greek calendar are on the internet. Even if I bring rock-solid proof - I do not think the individuals (who are pushing their own ideas) are here to come to an honest accessment of facts. They think they have all the facts. The Babylonian dates have NOT been verified in our previous discussion and if you accepted those - then my accessment of your honesty is correct. It is synchronized with Egyptian dates - which has severe problems. The Olympiads are more reliable than the Babylonian chronologies and it confirms the death of Cyrus to be 530 BCE. I mentioned 3 sources if I remember correctly? Cyrus ruled Babylon for 9 years according to its sources - so he started rule in 539BCE.... the battle of Opis was just a side issue - to also give an indication of the timeline when Babylon fell in 539 BCE.... . The Olympic games were held every four years - so the timekeeping was pretty accurate and it was the first reliable timing system instituted for the specific reason of pinpointing historic events in the ancient BCE period. The Babylonian data consists of mostly king lists and some were simultaneous ruler ships while other names have not yet been placed - there are many problems..... and there are no dates given so that one can properly synchronize to BCE dates and therefore Egyptian sources are used. The signs on the earth which indicates the riding of the horses (Rev 6) and the signs since 1914 on the earth have confirmed its accuracy - the one main sign of the Parousia being:- that in the last days the preaching of the 'kingdom ' will be preached in ALL the inhabited earth. .... the proof is in the eating of the pudding! There is no other organization doing this work on the entire planet - FREE of CHARGE..... and it has been going on for many years. Things are heating up all over the world - and propaganda and its accompanied violence is now being spread all over the earth to gather the nations together for Armageddon...... . and the religions are riding the beast! The religion is controlling the people and governments have to conform to their laws and their peoples who et violent if they do not get their way! The world wide "security' issues with bombings and killings by terrorists - and almost every day terrorists are being caught in Europe on the verge of committing great atrocities. Only some get to do them. Governments will get tired of this. They cannot turn against a "religion of peace" and will turn against all religions.....Other religions are also becoming violent! We have reached the time when the "security issues " are paramount in every secular government's thoughts! ..... and we all know that "peace and security" will be the first call before the final end. The EU, UN and many leftist organizations want ONE ruler ship or one system where all the diversity of humans and their different life philosophies will be accepted. They are trying to force peoples to accept one another and will institute harsh laws to obtain this. In Germany and England people have already been convicted for hate speech because they speak against a particular religion..... so laws will be enforced to curb this - while right wingers get more angry at the 'covering over' and lies of the governments as well as the many innocent peoples dying because of the fundamentalist ideologies...... the governments will then act to curb all religion and dissident thinkers. The controlling agenda is already in action!.... the stage is set.... The longer it builds the greater the implosion!

The seventy was sent out as a training for the future. Jesus was setting the pattern and instructing them what to do and not to do.

The kings were appointed by Jehovah. It went well with them and the nation if they inquired from Jehovah and followed the directions of the prophets. Disaster struck when they did not follow the instructions from the prophets. Jehovah kept sending prophets and they kept rejecting them.

The first Governing Body did a fantastic job - but when we start looking at the incompetencies in the congregations etc. (the issue with the bias regarding the feeding of the widows; the issues which arose regarding the circumcision, eating food previously offered to idols etc..)..another picture emerges. These were all issues that were not immediately addressed and could have caused some distress in the congregations for a period of time.... until the matter was taken up with the GB or other solutions were found. It was necessary for Paul to write letters and keep a watchful eye on new undesirable things in the congregations such as false teachings. etc.. Today we have the same issues - nothing has changed concerning the desires of mankind and its endeavors. To me the test is this: when other churches come and challenge us with their scholarship - I look at what they are DOING on the ground. Are THEY fulfilling the prophecy of Matt 24:14 - or are we? Do they have a slave who is feeding the entire world free of charge - or are we? So imperfect as we are - we are being obedient to Jehovah and doing the work he gave us to do - miraculously not by our own power.... even if everything is not perfect and needs constant work.

In field service we are in the business of changing peoples way of thinking and learning to think for themselves. However, freedom of thought comes with responsibility and self-control. Satan did not use this correctly and neither did Adam. He did not control his freedom of thinking and his subsequent desires and broke his relationship with Jehovah. So NO - in field service we teach people to think for themselves but explore a thinking in line with Jehovah's thinking - not away from Jehovah's thinking. One can use freedom of expression/thinking in a bad way - just like every other good thing. I belonged to one of the protestant churches with a 400 year history of dogmatic adherence to teachings that were laid down as law by the church father. No change to teachings in 400 years. Thank goodness I now belong to a religion which is prepared to cautiously adapt to new thinking and re-investigate its older core teachings. Sometimes in the past they have not been as cautious as they should have been and maybe in future too - but at least they are prepared to be open to change and to grow! not stagnate in ancient hoo-ha.

Insider, I agree with you that the GB seems more calm and kinder now and more mature BUT this does not mean that they will not fall foul of some other sinful quality! And it is not always Satan - it is just the sinfulness and wrong desires (dominance/competitiveness/ ego) in each of us which leads to bad behavior. Satan will also use any flaw in a person if he sees a gap. This is why I always caution that we must all of us watch ourselves when it comes to ambition (even in the truth); do not believe that you have the only way of doing something; and ANY form of control over others must be avoided. If we do not cooperate - we are abusing our power. A child can abuse the power he has over the family when he does not cooperate. He can make his parents life difficult. and.... where there is no peace.... then righteousness cannot grow. One must keep peace at all costs ..... but many have not learnt that yet because we are all at different levels of development. Some also learn some things faster than others. I have been on field service with sisters that are so controlling that I actually want to avoid them the next time - but force myself to be impartial and overlook this DEADLY quality because it destroys unhypocrytical love.. They are usually older sisters and set in their ways - so I try to find the good in them. I think the shouting match that Paulus had with Barnabas is a good reason for us to not expect people to be perfect and where ever people are - imperfection is sure to follow - and there is always that EGO to a stronger or lesser degree. The anointed man who slept with his own mother and then was later accepted back into the congregation just shows the level to which Jehovah can forgive and what we must be prepared to forgive..... I also believe to speak my mind openly but always try to do it in a loving way. When in doubt - show love. Sort things immediately in a nice way.... and it has worked for me. When I was younger I was afraid to speak out but as Paul said: the older sisters also have a role to play to inspire the younger ones and teach the young wives to love their husbands. The new meeting materials that focus on Christian living - I was very happy when this new feature was brought in because I thought this was really a facet of our Christian living which was neglected before... yea - so we all have our little peeves.... but I honestly believe we must overlook this and get on with only focusing on Jehovah. My brother - when he was in prison for the truth ( 3 years) told me that he saw some seriously nasty things amongst the brothers (people are just people and immature) and it caused divisions - while they were all trying to keep their integrity to Jehovah.... so yes... I do think that we may in future be thrown into prison together and then we will have to cope with each other..... this will not be a piece of cake.... but if we can do it we will get the crown of life! Sometimes out tests come from within the congregation!

They moved some of the threads - sorry do not know where to find them! I wanted to talk about the thoughts expressed by Insider. After reading your experiences in Bethel you were on my mind - lets say - a lot. Was I shocked by your feelings and revelations? NO. People are people and Jehovah allows persons to choose their way and behavior. Unfortunately, there are people who like to dominate others and as I said before - this is not a Christ-like quality. There are also those who like to sow doubt while they are busy with wicked things themselves. So these persons were an instrument - not to break your faith BUT to break your trust. However, I do not distrust Jehovah when my neighbor does something bad to me - so the same when I brother does not act in a way we would expect. I can imagine the effect this can have on a young, eager mind. But also remember - you do not know the inside story. He may have been seen - hence the rumors - and everything said and done in secret was revealed at once..... . I have read articles about the re-wiring of the brain or the strengthening of connections. Every time you re-live an emotion or a bad past experience your are re-wiring the memory again..... So in order to look forward ... and not look back too much - do not think about bad experiences too much. Jehovah told Cain to not let his bad thoughts control him. He was expected to get control over it. He did not listen to this advice direct from Jehovah. If your trust was shaken - sufficient time has now passed for you to get a more mature perspective of what happened. If he was humble enough for correction would he not have come back later? So did Jehovah withhold his spirit for a reason? My husband and I often talk about the earlier generations - they were more harsh because they were punished quite severely in school and most of them grew up in very strict (obedient to parents/teachers) environments. The two world wars also had a great effect on society - more rigid. So while I do not apologize for this behavior it is always good to look for mitigating circumstances and remember the Jehovah is the final judge. It just worries me to think that it is still so vivid in your mind. The restructuring of the GB and committees has made it less likely to happen again. Now they pay much more attention to "reviling" than before. If the dis-fellowshipped group displayed any form of defiant behavior - I can understand why they then would quickly dis-fellowship them. Wicked people, often play on peoples feelings by playing the 'victim'. It is just another form of deceit. The GB will definitely be attacked again by Satan and people maybe dis-fellowshipped. ... If there are people who can be used by satan to sow doubt or other behaviors which can break trust - he will do so - of this I am certain.

Don't know who wrote the Wikipedia article about David Rohl you are quoting but it is not accurate. Rohl's dates are closer to the dates given by the Witnesses. Most atheists say there is no evidence of the exodus in the bible. Rohl is of the contention that they are looking in the wrong time-line for it because the evidence is there! Many of these contentious Egyptian chronologists (Rohl included) say the ancient Egyptian history is out by 200 years and closer to the time of Nebuchadnezzar they are out by 20 years.