Arauna

Until Satan was put out of heaven there were doubtful ideas spread all the time in heaven and angels (even if perfect) were vulnerable to this as they could use their free choice to turn against Jehovah and disobey him. They also had to prove their loyalty to Jehovah. Book of revelation indicates that one third of the myriads of angels followed in Satans footsteps.... (it hurt the heavenly family) and angels on their way to earthly missions were intercepted by Satans rulers.... One angel told Daniel that the archangel came to help him! The heavens was also subject to Satans influence! So this clears up the flawed thinking above about the heavenly woman! The book of Jude indicates that Jesus had to rebuke an angel who wanted to take Moses's body to (no doubt) create more false worship and destroy the plans of Jehovah to bring forth the Messiah from the nation of Jews! Since Satan was a heavenly creature the issue of obedience and loyalty to Jehovah became an UNIVERSAL issue. This is why the firstborn son came to earth because he was directly created by God - a heavenly creature who became less than the other angels and therefore settled the obedience of heavenly creatures (until death) in addition to the earthly issue to be settled. The heavens rejoiced greatly when satan was thrown out! For sure. This 'woman' gave birth to a new nation when a new spiritual land was created! The 144,000 who were in death received the First resurrection and a new nation (of priests and kings) was born! These would be part of this new Kingdom! The logic of the writings I have seen thus far in these 12 pages defies logic and since Jehovah is absolute logic I expect things to fit in perfectly and make absolute sense. As I said before - people become so captured by the minute detail that they lose the larger picture and literally throw out the new born baby (the sacred secret of the kingdom) with the bath water! I expect to see an unbelievable intensifying of the power of satan on the earth - to the extent that there is no more good people to hold his total influence back! So far - wickedness has been held back by the decency of societies.... this is a figment of the past. Whether we will see a third world war - we do not know - but it will just be more of the same on a much larger scale. However, civil society is becoming so hard to live in with wickedness, love of violence and spiritism everywhere! The longer the world situation is building the bigger the effect when it cracks open! Everything is escalating because many issues are coming to a conclusion - such as the destruction of the earth - soon we will reach a point of no return with so many issues regarding the earth on the table. I can go on and on about the issues we are facing with the earth (climate change is the smallest one!).... So - this is the time to unitedly preach, preach, preach!

You have one disciple!

42 months is 3 and half years..... and it is 1260 days. This is the equivalent of 30 days per month. A biblical Jewish month was 30 days (so the bible is consistent regarding this). Daniel spoke of seven periods - regarding the fall of the tree and the new growth of the king on the throne of Juda.... 30 days X 84 months (7 years) is 2,520 years. 607BCE to 1913 is 2,520 years. There is no year zero - so you add a year= 1914 AD

Unfortunately - to quote magazines from the distant past - Russel etc. is like trying to wear a Victorian hat in our times - it does not fit in today. It has its place in the 'development' of the more modern hats worn in the 20th century- which lead to us only wearing hats for specific or practical reasons today in the 21st. (Similarly we have the core teachings today with an emphasis on the personality traits and principles which are preparing us to live in better harmony together under a future government). I remember the words of Jesus when he asked Peter if he loved him three times! The reply to Peter's answer was "feed my sheep." This is what the "slave" is doing...... feeding the sheep. We would not understand the Kingdom if it was not for them: it is a government with rulers and subjects; how it will function and what it will do. How it will function on the new earth...and how we should be in serious expectation of it. Today the buildup of hate and spiritism in all spheres of the earth is tremendous. Far-left to far-right fascist groups; black and white racism in Africa and America; tribal divisions; Shia and Sunni divisions; leftist and alt right governments (calling peace when there is no peace- controlling media and free speech); and hateful religions (look what the Talmud and Qur'an teach - you are in for a shock!). Unfortunately it is not just Islam who wants to rule the entire earth by fighting with literal weapons and killing all in their path - it is also subtle secret organizations which are also religiously and ideologically inspired; and political involvement by most religions on earth - some are riding the beast....even controlling the UN; and millions of people who are 'awakened' or "illuminated" today - having a façade of spirituality which is controlled by secret agendas...... Spiritism is rife and escalating in many countries with druids, witches, spells, magic and 'muti '(medicines made from children or animals). So the slave is teaching us to keep "neutral"; clean, safe and in expectation while in the love of Jehovah". This they understand 100%. In the eyes of the world we are nuts - like when Moses lead the Israelites into what seemed to be a trap! But this neutrality is very important so that we do not take sides... to keep in love and peace during the conclusion of the end. This neutrality stand tells me I have the truth!.......in the face of all people ready to take sides! It is natural to want to rectify something which is wrong - to become and activist... for a cause one thinks to be righteous! Some are falling for this trap and helping certain organizations and paying the penalty for it! Most people will be in support of some sort of killing of others when the time of the end comes... taking matters in fierceness into their own hands. It is the propaganda of demons (using media no doubt) which are going out to the earth - blinding all - and gathering them together for Armageddon.... when brother will kill brother. (note: What made very nice German people kill innocent people or stand back and do nothing or support the killing? It was an ideology/a philosophical way of thinking which gave the 'justification' for it. Mankind has not learnt its lessons from the past ... we are going the same way again .....just on a much grander scale! The new age groups sound all "spiritual" - but what secret organizations are lying behind their teachings? The new post-modernist philosophies which are touted by the far left - who say that all religions are good and there is no right or wrong and who have rejected the Bible and want to destroy it - who is behind this? The alt-right are openly a bunch of killers. One gets a shock once one discovers who have the purse strings to the world and who have control of the media.... Yes satan is blinding the eyes of many. The Bible is now a book ( and soon will) carry the scorn of most worldly people. Yet - we have time to waste to shift the meanings of words and dates. It is not going to change the responsibility of the commission given to us to preach the kingdom and teach the qualities necessary to maintain neutrality and stay innocent /uninvolved of the wickedness of the earth. There is a time for everything - and now is the time to obey - and preach. Buy out the opportune time! Leave the OCD.... behind and use the time to preach! Preaching will save you as Rom 10 says. To me - I see the birth pains are getting more intense. Jehovah does nothing without giving us some indication of where we stand in the space of time. He is a loving father . We have seen the wars and the RUMORS (media) of wars BUT this is not the end yet. So these signs should get us ready for what is waiting ahead of us. We have rumors of wars, more earth quakes, potentially more serious diseases than the 1918 influenza - (although this was a killer-illness on a massive scale. ) 'Security' is an issue as far-left and far-right take matters into their own hands (and do not forget that the far left is supporting islam, and cultural marxism. There are many forms of supremacism (check out islam and Zionism). So which are going to prevail and fill the void when problems erupt? We will find out when it happens. At moment China is posturing; Russia is posturing, USA and Turkey are posturing (showing their iron) while many other countries are placating the humanists and humanitarians (clay). All this is a cooking pot which possibly could suddenly explode - the longer it cooks the bigger the explosion - all at once! It will be a sudden decision to turn against religion and call for peace and security! They will use the weapon arsenals they have and whatever means they have during this time. There will be a period of the eye of the storm (similar to what happened in Jerusalem in 70AD - a respite) - this is when we bring the message of wrath with the possibility of losing our lives! This will be a sign from Jehovah and maybe other signs which will make the nations turn on us in hate. The end will happen as fast as a vase is falling! The buildup is happening as we speak! So -the major signs have been! It is now the time of propaganda of Satan Rev 16:14-16

Whether these weapons were developed earlier - the tank was never used on the scale it was used in the war from 1914 onwards and now is a standard feature of war - or variations on it. Airplanes were also in the development stage earlier - but they were not used on a scale ever before specifically for war until 1914. Zeppelins were used much more before this. So the composite use of so many different technologies makes it the first time that it was not man against man (or man on horse against man) even though horses were still used..... so this became warfare with mass machine killing.

I recall that 1914 was the first major war fought with airplane bombing, flame throwers, chemical and gas weapons, many submarines (improved on the tiny ones used in the civil war in USA)... it was also after the development of the telegraph - used extensively; tank warfare and individual soldiers were issued with machine guns.... battle of the Somme rates on most lists of worst battles ever fought. Second world war is an improvement on this with aircraft carriers; radar; radio used extensively during war; and atomic bomb; What do we have now: improvement on previous weapons: satellites, drones, intercontinental ballistic missiles; nuclear submarines; supersonic jets; electro magnetic pulse; more varieties of nuclear weapons; information warfare, Most weapons are all improvements on the communications or weapons used in the 1914 WW1.... The proof is still on the ground.

Very telling!

To use the illustration of the woman who is pregnant. There is no doubt she is pregnant because the signs are there. One can see she is pregnant long before the birth pains start. ( conclusion of system). Later the birth pains start to intensify severely (problems intensify - great tribulation) and then the birth/end. We know the signs are here on earth that Jesus has been ruling amidst his enemies since 1914. We expect the conditions to severely intensify before the end.

Some healthy PR saving the day!

Yes, soy milk is deadly - even for women. The latest health craze..... but the lectins are very bad apart from the female hormones. The only soy which is acceptable is fermented soy.

Too much hormones, plastics and poisons in our food. All imitate female hormones and disrupt enzyme functions. Read recently that the sperm count has gone down so drastically that our survival in future will be threatened if it goes down at the same rate as present...... Humans are messing up this earth and its sensitive balance for sure! Jehovah will have to step in ..... soon!

It is so easy to "whitewash" any reasonings. This is why I am careful. I recall Jesus calling the Pharisees out on their "teachings of men"..... By this time the Greek way of reasoning had infiltrated the Sanhedrin. With the building of gymnasiums in the Decapolis and the appointment of non-Levites into the Sanhedrin. Human reasoning had allowed the Jews to steer away from the Torah and start to teach " teachings of men". These non-Levites and power-happy individuals were behind the rejection of Jesus.

I seem to recall that after describing wars, disease and famine in Math 24 it mentions that this is only the 'beginning ' of the pangs of distress. So this is an indication that things will get worse. Further down in the chapter it mentions that if God did not step in - no flesh will be saved - before Jehovah's people lose their integrity - he will step in.... severe distress awaiting the world.

Crazy!

They will be able to spy on the west while their own systems are impenetrable and their weapons systems and banking systems will also be independent and safe. So they can hack and do criminal business in the west as they see fit. Russia has the same agenda.

India was raped by the British empire. As all great European civilizations did in the past, they had "colonies' all over the world. They stripped them of their wealth while they made themselves the upper class and the natives of the land the lower class in their own country. No wonder the Bible refers to them in prophecy as the little horn who speaks grandiose things! Gandhi followed the idea of "peaceful resistance". He used to read the new testament while in Africa and actually said his famous words to this effect:- if everyone followed the teachings of Christ there would be no war on earth. Many Hindus were killed in the peaceful demonstrations / resistance because they were just mowed down by the British..... but as the word got out in the media and world - it brought shame to the British and they decided to leave. Gandhi was disappointed that Indians could not all live together - he wanted to keep one country, but later, with the violence between Muslims and Hindus and a call for separation, he conceded to a split of the country into India and Pakistan. These two religions still hate each other. At present there is a far right government in India which declared the 'Hindu culture' the dominant culture of the land (and Immediately an Al Qaida branch opened up which has perpetrated many crimes against Hindus.) Islam considers itself superior to Hindus who are called "polytheists" in the Qur'an, deserving of death. Christians are regularly (almost daily) killed by intolerance in Pakistan - and it is not really covered in the western media. If you do not like a Christian neighbor it is easy:- You accuse them of blasphemy against Mohammad - saying something against Mohammad or of burning a page of the Qur'an - and the entire village comes out to stone you. The blasphemy laws in Pakistan are very strict and hence the government does not follow up if people stone of kill someone in the name of blasphemy. School children are also targeted. They often abduct Christian girls - rape them and marry them to make them Muslim. This is the world we are living in..... and things are escalating.... religious hatred and intolerance is everywhere. Hindus are also becoming "nationalistic" about their religion - teaching their children to fight for Hinduism. So things can only get worse - not better. Thanks to Jehovah - we are taught to be truly neutral and we are activists only when it comes to the proclamation of Jehovah's kingdom. We have brothers in both countries - I am sure!

Yea, I was in the Organization in 1975 (was baptized 1973) and while brothers and sisters were speculating about it all the time in private I never heard it mentioned on the platform and I did not see it in important books we were studying. Many were thinking that the day of "rest" would start (1000 reign).

Some people here think we are not worthy 'sparring' partners. I studied all this years ago- I can give you the date of the Fall of Nineveh 612 BCE after the fall of Ashur without looking it up on the internet. As I said before, the secular dates are not set in stone because the Assyrian dates are set to correlate with Egyptian dates. The dynasty of Babylon FOLLOWED the Assyrian kings who controlled the region before the Babylonians and hence the Babylonian dates have to follow on the Assyrian dates .....and their dates are not 100% accurate - it is only Archeologist opinions. ..... so people on this forum are continually referring to dates that are in line with current secular thought which are NOT 100% accurate no matter how hard you insist on it. If you are an engineer and you look for the root cause of the problem one does not go searching around the middle - one works back from where the problem started. I satisfied myself a long time ago that the organization has it right (give a year or two)...... because the ULTIMATE proof after all is in the signs on the ground - in 1914. NO ONE CAN SPAR ABOUT A BETTER DATE THAN 1914 ON THE GROUND! So what is the use of 'sparring' about any other SECULAR dates for the fall of Babylon when it brings you to a date in our time when NOTHING significant happened on the ground after 1914, until WW2 - and WW2 was a continuation of what happened in WW1. It is just an exercise of self gratification and having someone to 'spar' with because some people spar with the 'slave' all the time! The Babylonians went into exile for 70 years because they did not observe the Sabbath years in which the land was to lay fallow - for no other reasons- we all know that.

In Western countries it is easier to have your own opinion and just get on with life because you will not pose a threat to anyone else's spirituality in the congregation. Since we have one family in the entire world we must take care not to stumble others. It is our duty to be responsible towards others and use our words only in an upbuilding way. The "idea" for the discussion is not the problem - it is the underlying attitude behind the promotion of a new idea that can become the problem Satan started in this way - promoted a new idea..... and it just happened to be a treasonous one. We all like to think we are intellectual and smart and we like to give ourselves the "permission" to discuss intellectually with others a subject - but it is mainly to satisfy a selfish desire. I happen to have lived in Africa 45 years..... I understand that elders have to be vigilant to new ideas that may be corrupting. Education is often limited and tribal ideas still flourish..... politics and tribal issues easily influence people. I now again heard of brothers that were reproved......because they do not "see" the implications of what they do. I now also work in Middle Eastern communities which is the total opposite. To say something against Mohammad is treason and punishable by death. We have a much more reasonable approach - to allow free thought but to be watchful for spreading of contentious ideas. Sadly, I have lost some friends and a family member to apostasy.....I know the signs and the pattern of behavior. It usually starts with a 'brilliant new way of looking at a subject....... then the person becomes totally obsessive about it..... then the person tries to have others agree with them and the strange thing is - they do not stop ...... they go on and on......they cannot help themselves....there is an uncanny obsessiveness about it.........then they turn nasty against the "slave" when they are called in and reproved... and then become a rebel against authority in the organization and then some go on to extend their activities into activism to the point where they malign the "slave" and organization. I have seen on these pages here that the 70 years in captivity was questioned; I have seen on these pages that a date (607 BCE) was questioned (while I gave very good reasons why it is a valid date for the beginning of the trampling by the nations); I have seen the 1914 was questioned and the Parousia..... I can go on and on....You see - when one does not accept the one idea - then it leads to so many other things that are not accepted and "questioned". I have seen the "OCD" which is so strong that a person will spend hours and hours of their life to just focus on this "one" subject and basically cannot go on with other activities - like being an active part of the congregation and spend much time in preaching This to me is a "flag" that all is not "kosher" - I do not care how open minded and spiritual you say you are. - this is a flag I know the spreading of new "ideas" and the compulsion which drives it. As I said before ...... If you do not believe that Jesus is ruling invisible in heaven now and he started ruling in 1914. What are you doing in this organization? because you cannot be trusted to go out in field service and teach the truth in an "unhypocritical " way. I would not trust such a one - and I am not and elder and never will be. So, I can only say - the new way of looking at these dates is not the problem to me - it is the obsessiveness with it - which is. It is as though this drives the person and all his social contacts....to this point of discussion. And what better place can one find than a forum like this?

Who is the slave.... to give food at proper time. You either believe they are the appointed slave to give food at proper time or you don't. Simple. Your words and actions will prove what you think....One must be prepared to step back and let your opinions take second place. As someone said earlier - if interpretation were given to everyone - we would have 8 million different interpretations wouldn't we? As each person thinks they can serve better and have more of Jehovah's Spirit to interpret what they find. Our final test (I think) will come when the slave is attacked in a most vicious way and false information spread about them to deceive and take Witnesses away from our most basic beliefs such as not voting, neutrality etc. I also think there is a difference between having confidence/trust in Jehovah and his abilities to lead; and personal humility. I think that very few people work on the teaching of Christ that we should lessen ourselves and be prepared to suffer for it as he did. Most Witnesses need to work on this. Moses had to spend 40 years of his life with SHEEP! Intellectual pursuit ? Naa.... he had to learn to trust Jehovah completely. Then only - was he ready to lead Jehovah's people in true humility of spirit. All that fancy education in Pharaoh's palace was useless. Joseph spent 13 years in a prison.... (he really had to trust in Jehovah - I would have given up by year 3)..... Must have been pretty nasty in there. No human rights.... etc. I wanted to mention that if the Sumerian chronology is out - then you start at a very rocky basis for the other dynasties which come after.... and some of them overlapped and ran simultaneously. Perfect clarity and "absolute" is not the words I would use to describe the DATES for these dynasties.... Very skeptical.... I mentioned my book to demonstrate that it is not important what we achieve in this world..... at present I am too busy in the field in any case..... but that we sometimes have to step back and be happy with being a no-body and not achieving anything of great significance! I have lost all ambition regarding this world and since I did that I am extremely happy! I was raised in an extremely ambitious family and it took a long time to get rid of this trait. Like a jack-in-the box- it jumps out sometimes and I have to push it back in. One can even be ambitious in the truth - to stand out....... all of us should investigate ourselves to see if that spark of putting ourselves in front and grudging others a place in the sun is still part of our personality. I do not count my value in how many people I helped get in the truth, how many studies at one time, and how many seeds I sowed..... I just keep at the job and wait on Jehovah.... and the peace it brings is so uncluttered! If all of us had a waiting attitude (while doing what Jehovah requires from us) most things usually sorts itself out.... and there are always adjustments in the teachings to help us stay faithful to Jehovah...... is this not after all the main goal of all of us? ..... to stay faithful?

I just want to know what "Bigly" world events happened in 1925 which outweighs 1914.... ... or any other date for that matter. Any date which brought forth the world changing events of 1914. Please help me out here! You can change the date to whatever date you like with astounding reasonings and many quoted scriptures etc...... but I want to see the evidence on the ground!... and it must be really more significant than the events in and from 1914. I am prepared to look at something I feel is really credible - otherwise you do not deserve my attention! Also - how much time is spent in teaching others about the Kingdom as instructed by Jesus. This is our obligation. We can spend all day in searching the scriptures and when we do not DO what Jesus said - all is in vain. Our obedience is more important than knowledge because knowledge can puff us up and make us lose focus of bringing praise to Jehovah and warning and informing our fellow humans on earth. The attention of the focus can be ourselves if we indulge our own pleasures too much - whatever it is. As you possibly may know my first language is not English and when I write fast I sometimes fail to check my sentences and my language... .. I realize I am at a little disadvantage here! LOL I am going to bow out gracefully now. I have much preparation to do and I have been rushing in and out to return visits today..... so singing off in Sweden! Good night.

I agree with you brother - Europe is a boiling cauldron and the longer it boils the bigger the explosion. They are in denial about the financial and other problems related to immigration but when it sinks in they will act in a crazy way.... the lady is heavy pregnant - all the signs are there - the birth is eminent - the day an hour is unknown. However, we should all be found working hard for a warning and a witness to the nations... in unity, cooperation and in peace - who of us will stand?

I think you keep on trying to prove you are right because you are not happy with what you have in the truth. Why spend hours trying to get someone to agree with you. What is the purpose of it? If hypothetically I agree with you - then what will the next step be for us? We go and make our own happy little group separate from other Witnesses - and pat ourselves on the back that we are smarter than the slave? or what? It has nothing to do with being smart or scholarly or even being RIGHT - it has to do with recognizing Jehovah and the channel he is using to preach the Kingdom as the only hope for mankind. I honestly believe that we must have Jehovah's spirit to stay connected with Him and stay in the truth. I have enough knowledge of other history to firmly believe that WW1 was a major change in world affairs and that the year 537BCE is a reasonably good year (take a year of two) for the building work to restart in Jerusalem......and this will easily bring the date of Jerusalem's fall to 607 (70 years in Babylon ) - which makes 1914 not a mirage at all! And the other arguments that Jehovah will not use a wicked king and his 7 periods of madness as a symbol of the inhumane nations ruling the earth until Jesus kingdom starts to rule does not tread water at all. Jehovah used prophets whose wives were unfaithful to illustrate the situation that his people were in..... Yes I have seen the things you took a lot of time to write and I honestly do not think it is worth my time to reply because think that you are determined to promote your own way of thinking...... It so happens that I do not agree with you. In your mind you are the expert on this. So be the expert and where will it get you? You need to serve Jehovah together with his servants or stay behind. You need to be actively helping others to come closer to Jehovah - but with this expert fault finding scholarship you will not have enough time or enough of Jehovah's spirit to do this. I learnt Jehovah's name, the fact that the immortality of the soul is a lie from satan, that Jesus really died for me (soul died) and that Jesus is not God - I learnt all from the Witnesses. There is no other religion which stands up for the vindication of Jehovah's name like the slave does. In fact our persecution will start because we proclaim this name and took it for ourselves to be identified by... Most churches accept the name Jesus but not Jehovah's name. Even Muslims accept a form of Jesus.... so this should tell you to appreciate the fact that Jehovah in his graciousness allowed both of us to be part of this group of people. ..... While it is good to investigate what you believe so you can stay strong - one should not go beyond/ or brazenly go ahead - where is the unity in that? I have on occasion not agreed with small things and later came to this conclusion:- it sorts itself out...... The really important stuff is all there and is understood.... I started writing a book about the intrinsic LOGIC of the Bible and how everything fits in perfectly - a few years back and decided to stop..... because I decided that I do not want to be competition for the slave..... Jehovah gave them the job to advertise the kingdom.... and I will not use what I learnt from the organization (even if I have a lot of my own ideas - to make money for myself. I may later finish it and ask them if I can publish..... and if they do not like ..... it is OK with me. I am participating in the greatest work on earth - to teach others about Jehovah. There is a thin line which one can overstep. Think of Adam and Eve - it was a very simple test...... and such a small thing.... which actually shows the level of obedience and cooperation which Jehovah really expects from us. This is why the bible shows we must be in unity and in cooperation when he finds us..... We can use our powers to sow discord and doubt..... which is not the way Jehovah wants us to be. We must be slaves...... of others ....not scholars. Jesus knew all the knowledge there is all to know in heaven and on earth but not once did he show that he knows more than other people. He stayed lowly until his death. We all - me included - can learn from this! for sure!

Thanks! Yes, the breaking up of the Ottoman empire WW1 has also set the stage for the problems now being experienced in the Middle east. The second world war was also as a result of the Germans being aggrieved about the conditions of the Armistice ending WW1.

Went to a historical Museum about the 2 world wars in Norway last week and saw the same phrase I have seen so many times - 1914 was the" year the world changed never to be the same again...." It identified all the new kinds of weapons that had never been used in previous wars before..... so many....The battle of the Somme is still listed as one of the worst battles ever.... What we see on the ground in real life must also reflect what is in the scriptures.... so 1925 or any other date in my book would not even get a chance to be a possibility...... I did not mean to sound rude when I said that one can get sooo scholarly and focussed on only one item that one develops a myopia .... and by the way ..... I was browsing the internet when I saw an Interlinear I had not seen before- and there it was - the word " Parousia" in chapter Matt 24.