Arauna

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Do we distinguish them?

Yes we do - now - in Western societies.  Go to Afrika and they will call your grandfather your father and similar to women... so to get so technical is unnecessary - just to make some point.

Extended family such as aunts is also called mother..... 

Lol - you know I meant years!

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

mean that science cannot reliably claim or assume anything.

True - they equate science with truth.... but they forget that IMPERFECT humans are making the assumptions these theories are based upon.  Most of them are theory upon theory but the conclusions are defective because the premise is inaccurate. Mathematics is also a language to express things which cannot be said in verbal language.  Does it mean that every equation is truth / reality?   NO.  Much of science is unproven and only theory.  Any scientist that tells you that they know it all, is a liar.   Where did the energy in our universe, and the energy within the matter come from? - is still not proven!  

Jehovah is the source of all dynamic energy and his intelligence organized the matter and the natural laws we see in nature.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg cannot rely reliably on scientific methods

Most of the "scientific" methods" in evolution are the highly imaginative imaginations of illustrators and scientists.  The scientific methods is: to repeat an experiment to get the same results - this does NOT apply to the theory of evolution.  To do that you have to be able to go back in time.  When ones DOES go back in time and look at the EVIDENCE in the fossils -   one sees that the theory does not line up with the REALITIES in the fossil record and the Geological record.

Therefore the GB use science which has been through the true scientific method.

This is why I call evolution a quasi-science...... pseudo science, a cult or a religion... or something to that effect.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If the figures on the age of the Earth are not accurate, as you claim, then neither these figures on the age of the universe are reliable or accurate, because they come from “science”.

The universe came into being very long ago - and the earth was part of that.  Afterward, at the right time, the earth was prepared for humans to live on.   That is why ALL the days of creation is spoken of in the bible as one DAY.  It is not a 24 hour day.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

other parts of the universe in which there is nothing but raw mass and energy?

Science teaches that all mass is energy.  How can we be sure? Well, burn a planet, a human, and animal or a house - it releases energy or heat.  For Jehovah to create the universe he organized his energy to create mass out of his energy.  There was nothing and then there was creation because energy was used.  Time and 3 dimensional space came into being in our physical universe which has mass.  Jehovah is timeless and has no mass. He himself says so! How is that for accuracy of science! Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom.... 

3 hours ago, Pudgy said:

an you explain layers of fossils miles thick, a

Yes. I can.......  the flood was a catastrophic event with the earth ripping open (under the sea) to expose the underground water and even lava coming up.  The sea pushed up and created tsunamis which rolled forward and later retracted.  If you look at the land mass of North America and the situation of the mass graves, you will find that most of the animals are in two very long graves (trenches) which are hundreds miles long.  This was when the water pushed whole ecosystems into gullies.   These animals are often twisted into positions which indicate a mass extinction event..... (scientists try to show it is a meteor).... but a meteor does not deposit large animals into a long gully hundreds of miles long -water does. 

They found a kind of bark in much of the coal.  This was made by  trees floating on water, rolling against each other and loosing its bark.....the bark floats down to the bottom of the water where there is little oxygen and the heavy pressure of the water does its work. Coal forms in conditions with much pressure. Carrying a pail of water tells one how heavy water is. The flood was a year long... so floating things get water logged ad sink. 

If animals were lying out in the open for thousands of years waiting for layers of ground to cover them - would the majority of them not be partially eaten by other carnivorous birds or carrion feeders who in the meantime proliferate?  On the other hand we see that birds no longer had a place to fly to and also succumbed to the prevailing conditions. (when evolutionists find one single bone with teeth marks on it, it becomes major news.  LOL ...  and the proven 'fact' of evolution once again receives its propaganda.

Most of the deposits of fossils have adult animals with very few babies with them.  This also indicates an event where animals were running to higher ground or a place of safety and were caught up with.  What about the mountainous deposits which have layers of earth with sea shells  in it.  (the layers of the grand canyon is a good example).  layer upon layer was quickly formed due to the weigh of the water. 

The evidence is overwhelming for a catastrophic flood.  Evolutionists do not speak of the deposits that have contemporary animals with them...  I have read of a pit with contemporary animals and prehistoric animals together..... 

There are many anomalies in the evolution theory that can easily be explained if one explains it as a catastrophic flood.

You have so many theories that do not make sense because the premise is wrong:  Jehovah did not need to use evolution to create (which according to theory happened all by chance with no purpose); and as you know the number of years is the main part of the theory to get evolution to work (yet 5 billion years could still not create one cell), s o they came up with multiple universes to increase the "chances" of life emerging; and the argon test and carbon 14 test has too many adjustments to the calculations - flaws. 

Fossils are not as old as they say - because they now find blood vessels and collagen in the fossilized bones (repeated experiments).  This does not get much publicity-  only the theories they dub "facts" gets much publicity due to scientism being the new world religion - replacing our creator.

DNA evidence is emerging which indicates that one can calculate the number of generations through the number of mutations per generation.  Human life goes back to 3 branches (on the mitochondrial DNA which comes from the mother)......  after the flood.  They are even writing papers on this now...... but it does not get much publicity. 

One male DNA line for male chromosome. 

41 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

t shows the GB brainwashing

You are going back into your usual subconscious MO !  The Hate OCD seems to be your comfort zone! 

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

choice to be immoral as many JWs are

I bet you know all about that and judge all according to your own preferences........  maybe you have something in your closet - that is why you so easily talk about it and push the idea.....

17 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

It’s a sword that cuts both ways ……

You worked yourself out of that very nicely... .......total collectivism is never good .... the individual will and choice is always supreme and a willing sacrifice in every situation .....not total abstinence of the group..... just as absolute subjugation to the group is not acceptable. 

One thing that jehovah values is our willing choice in every situation.... a choice to submit to his moral values. 

3 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Sometimes the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few, or the one.“ -  Spock

if he was an intellectual we could respect, I would accept that reasoning....... so I do not.  But the excerpt sounds a bit more socialist communist to me, where individuality is lost in the collective. 

Jehovah wants us to keep our individuality but learn to temper it around those who are not like us.  It is the loving thing to do.  Unfortunately, I also have a kind of break-out personality - like this weaponized virus!!   I contain myself (because I am a bit over the top in my enthusiasm for everything), and then the Jack-in-the-box jumps out!  I push it back in ... and then, when I am not vigilant - it pops up. 

We all have our failings. ......

5 hours ago, Witness said:

t is your leaders who use cunning tactics to mislead their listeners onto the wrong path.  

I am not smart enough for you...... You baffle me!

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Well, yeah. I see where you’re coming from. But there’s no need to add to it unnecessarily. You should come, as the eagle does, to the carcass that is JWI—and all the others, too. 

Ditto - even if you are a smelly vulture.... lol. 

Seriously - you are adding to your own burdens /load.  No need to go as far as to punish yourself. 

I knew a brother who did the same as you.  He was also a character due to the fact that he grew up in an orphanage and (who knows) what happened to him there. He was never adopted. He learnt to only rely on the self... they are always awkward and do not generally fit in.  They themselves always feel different.  Children come out of these institutions with some unsociable traits such as quirky or extremely dark humor and an individuality which does not fit in. He was accepted back in the truth before he died.

I do not always understand your humor But I have not experienced it to be nasty or deprecating.  Sometimes only of the self!     Why continually expose yourself to the truly nasty ones?  Not worth it.

11 hours ago, Witness said:

Nothing said about the Father and the Son, but about an organization...... 

We want to discuss scripture and our peeves in peace without having hate-OCD change the new subject of  hate for the GB in every thread...... that is why we want to get away from you.  Your nastiness follows us wherever we go. Most of us were prepared to put up with you - and we all did that for a very long time.... but now I think we have just decided it has been enough...

3 hours ago, Witness said:

AraunaSorry for this...should be "extremely"

I have no problem with spelling mistakes or other mistakes - I often do them myself. I do take some offense that you imply an intelligent "cunning" from me.  But I do not want to argue with you about any of it. Not worth it. 

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

other how wonderful their F&DS are. A

We can actually have a good discussion there without the Hate-OCD remarks that are so  meaningless because they are merely a repetition of the same old incoherent things over and over.. 

6 minutes ago, Witness said:

on the politics of the world

You forget that Jesus was accused of political sedition.  We are at present being maneuvered into a similar situation. When we do not accept the new morals of the great reset - we will be accused and maligned as all kinds of things.  The bible says that the true followers of Christ will be persecuted.  We are not greater than our ruling King..

I have just been well trained by the GB literature to recognize bible prophecy when I see it.  Fortunately, I do have somewhat of an interest in world events - NOT politics.  You will not find me taking sides with any of the political wars or ideological divides going on at present.  I just watch how these divides  fulfill prophecy.

54 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

rom Russell onward it was 50% propaganga.

From what you said above, I see you did not understand at all what I was saying.  You have a one-track mind and that is OCD-hate.  I was talking about government propaganda.  Can you explain your understanding of the bible verses I quoted?  I am certain you have NO clue of its meaning. 

Well the "propaganda" that you hate is here.  Soon the flour and oil will be so expensive you will not be able to afford it.  Then you will think of the words of "propaganda" from the GB that you hate to much.  I do feel sorry for you because I do not wish what is coming even on the worst of the enemies of Jehovah.  But his has been predicted and now it is here!

"I heard what sounded like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures say: “A quart* of wheat for a de·narʹi·us*k and three quarts of barley for a de·narʹi·us; and do not harm the olive oil and the wine.”

Russia and Ukraine have not planted sunflowers for oil in April this year.  Not only are they major exporters of wheat but also of oil..... 

11 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

racist

This is not a slight to you but I use it to raise a new thought:

Has anyone noticed how the media disparages anyone who does good research and brings the truth to others?  Wikipedia just writes the most liable things about people wherein the celebrity himself has no right to change anything..... even personal histories are changed.  Far lefties are suddenly called far-righters or conspiracy theorists.  The HIT-media is part of the world-wide retaliation-machine which has been put in place by the powers that rule the media at present; and any professor which displays  a little common sense, is a statistical guru, or prized virologist/geneticist, is no longer worthy of being an academic. Their stellar careers get marked by very nasty black spots - especially if they lost their tenure at a university due to gender politics or by speaking out.  Their successful career is maligned and the worth of the Nobel prizes etc. suddenly cancelled.

Although this so-called truth-faction, coming from a wide political spectrum, are not all religious -  they do try to dismantle the deceit and gaslighting going on throughout the world.  Some of them are older (they do not have families in the home and can speak out), and know that they may be targeted and have also accepted this inevitability..... due to the totalitarian way of thinking which is tightening its stranglehold on the world.

The orchestration of the false prophet and the wild beast seems to be world-wide and very efficient.   Revelation 16:  And I saw three unclean inspired expressions* that looked like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴  They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty."

This propaganda was prophesied. Propaganda definition: propaganda is the dissemination of information—facts, arguments, rumors, half-truths, or lies—to influence public opinion. I may add that people may soon end up hurting themselves or even their loved ones when they are zealously following instructions via the propaganda.  (Germany's government propaganda during ww2 is a good example of creating good zealots).

While the reliable signs given by Jehovah are now going into fulfillment in the world (such as pestilences, untimely deaths, hunger soon to appear in great scope, King of the North, and the UN trying to get world-controlling documents drawn up and ratified); these signs are giving us an indication where we are in the stream of time (if we watch for them).

The false prophet is also busy with his signs. The false prophet is leading us all mesmerized along with their lab-manufactured problems, massive fear-inducing propaganda, together with an unending list of solutions which have already been deliberated on by those who will soon become the 10 new kings together with the UN; constantly creating new diversions so that the populous cannot get time to think straight; and the atheist prophets of scientism can get their transhuman agenda into play.

What I find fascinating, is the propaganda...... they are managing it extremely well through the appointed  counter media or managed opposition - (algorithms watching every new trend or truth being discovered) - and writing new hit-news  pieces with half-truths which debunk the lies with more half-lies. They use written and visual aids to great effect.  Soon they will be able to cancel-kill all dissenting voices by cancelling all documents which expose the truth. The world will truly be in darkness then- Satan's darkness where no light of any truth will shine through. 

The implication of this is that people could be rounded up for prison or any other nefarious reason and media will be managed by the "state". No news of this will leak out or will be downplayed as "conspiracy"-theory.

What the above definition does not say is that governments usually do the propaganda.  In USA an amendment was passed in 2012 which allows propaganda by the federal government..... and since the end of last year, the government and the UN has appointed various media organizations to remove anything they deem mis-information.  At present they are managing it, but here is the scary part: citizens which go against the LGBTQ agenda now taught in schools to very young children, their names are put on a 'terrorist' list.   

In fact, Governments have done propaganda just about forever because they have had the money and the cooperating educated class to do it. Jesus's death was instigated by a small group of ruling class people (Sanhedrin) who managed, by collusion or conspiracy, to arrest Jesus and sway public opinion ... they could even have planted a few agitators in the crowd as modern propagandists do. 

The "dragon's" propaganda has been excellent in its dividing of humans.  The BLM movement, post-modern philosophy and the rewriting of history has filled many unsuspecting people with hate for others with a different color or worldview;  the publicity about the fakeness of the bible and its historicity is everywhere; the book of Enoch and the anunnaki now has a large following which is basically a form of demon worship.  The belief in aliens is skyrocketing .....due to the belief that the anunnaki were aliens;  as is, the new religion of scientism and the idea that one can live forever in a computer algorithm. 

4 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You see your GB, Elders and Org in a way that you wish to see them,

You have your dark glasses on. Your black attitude give you away.

10 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

They wanted me quiet but controlled. 

I suspect that they wanted you to have a longer time to think about your stance without having to take drastic measures.  Often people act irrational and fast and end up having regrets later.

This is why I said (above) that one must not always attribute bad motives to people. Yes, elders are just people and can act in self-interest.  They do not want to make harsh decisions immediately concerning JW members who seem to be inconsistent or dissenting. But they know they have to act quickly when people are unnecessarily public.

It is in the attitude: love hopes all things, believe all things.....endures all things........ it means to see the best in people and give the benefit of the doubt..... to give them time to reconsider.....

I have seen all too often that people who are hyper-critical end up hurting themselves in a bad way - even those critical JWs who operate under the radar in a congregation.  People can walk around with a permanent bad attitude..... they become like repelling magnets. 

35 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes I've seen it happen to some that I was close to way back then. 

I used to know a JW who saw bad motives in everything others did. She was hyper-critical.  It messed up her life.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

As a family (wife, kids, brother, parents) we have taken a couple Mediterranean cruises that covered Rome, Pompeii, Athens, Corinth, Ephesus/Smyrna, Egypt, and Istanbul. I'm sure I bored my kids with all the details I wanted to share about the Biblical and historical connections in all these places. At least they could always go back to unlimited ice cream and pizza when they got back on the cruise ship. 

I  too have bored my family on vacation when I looked at the sewerage systems, baths, building materials, walking through the town and studying all the implements and hand tools and went through the sites with a tooth comb.  I always had a penchant for understanding how the poor folks got through their day.

Recently I listened to a talk by a professor (forgot his name) but he spoke about "empire".   It made me think of the seven heads of the beast.  What he said came down to this: empire was always a war machine which fed the rich and the ruling class.  Soldiers  would grab not only slaves but the wheat, food, animals and strip the land of all its riches.  Everything was transported back to the capital city or became part of booty.  Afterwards there was also the matter of tribute from the survivors.......  Does modern empire work the same?   Certainly.... especially the false prophet which has "two horns like a lamb but began speaking like dragon".  All these trumped up wars come to mind.

Listened today to two people talking about the time under Stalin. How the death squads within Russia murdered people via poisons and plausible suicides and also operated in other countries. One such killer in UK was tracked and he had already committed 14 murders without anyone suspecting foul play.  The polonium case however did hit international news. Putin has similar operations today and was apparently involved in this type of operations in his salad days. 

Eight oligarchs, living in other countries, have died suddenly from non-suspect heart attacks, except for one family who  were all brutally murdered, children included. The father was working as an accountant and had given information to the West on how money was being transferred through banks while renewed sanctions were in place. 

9 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

ecause scripture doesn't "specifically" mention door to door preaching, doesn't mean there wasn't door-to-door preaching in the townships. 

It was custom to congregate at the city gates or market places.  Paul was the "apostle to the nations" and preached to Greeks as well as other nations.  He was here in Albania via the Via Ignatius from Corinth - then called Illyricum.  (He could have been in the port city here where I live because Rome later considered to make this the eastern capital instead of Byzantium). At the gates or market Paul usually would find someone favorable and go home with them and preach further. On occasion he would use this house as a base. He also went to the Synagogues.  In most cities it was the Jews who started the riots because he was teaching a new form of Judaism. (To them it sounded like blasphemy, when they refused to acknowledge the Messiah had come.) In the week, I am sure, he would have done some house preaching after working on tents. 

Although the Greeks had the oratory tradition, I wonder how much of a help it really gave to the poor and those who moved in the lower echelons of society? Religion was run by the upper echelons or educated segments of society. It was also very set in tradition and ritual. To my thinking, it offers only an empty framework of tradition and many stories of Gods - as much as Hinduism with its many gods and its caste system does today.  With skillful preaching (and the miracles during the lifetime of the Apostles), the gospel message was appealing to those with a searching heart.  (The other points mentioned above about angels and other points, were good to think about.)

Not only did the Christians teach a different god, a creator with a Name (using the Septuagint translation of Hebrew scriptures), but this god was interested in humans because he sent a loving, human son who came to earth to show us how to live.  This representative of God was killed as a man because he preached about a future kingdom which would restore the earth..... and this ONE was killed in a very ghastly way by the authorities (which I supposed appealed to anyone ever treated unjustly by authorities or even a few rebels).  He taught that all humans were brothers and war and violence was wrong.  (The military machine of Rome would not like this idea because one could only rise to the top in society through war such as humble donkey breeder, Vespasian.)

The fact that this lowly Jesus (being the son of the true god), was prepared to die for our imperfections, and all his associates saw him raised up again, must have been a powerful message. The gospel message was simple - in that it taught love.  That all should love and treat each other justly, to share material things, be hospitable, no biased, and to not be selfish or materialistic, not hang onto earthly things because Jehovah would provide. Also the pagan religions taught a lot of superstition. They were free from fear and superstition. 

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It's true that Rutherford made excuses as to why he didn't participate,

I think those plagues against Christendom in Revelation 6 were all thrown down from heaven by the angels and distributed by Rutherford against Christendom in his public exposes - lol -  (he had his fiery place in the unfolding of Jehovah's purposes). 

8 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

He practised what he taught,

I appreciate your examples - I must add that these are all individuals that you quote during a period of the dark ages. A period when the Catholic church allowed no dissent to their false teachings. Very little true light was available.  But a slow renaissance was coming into the church as well. JWs often cite these examples of faithful people, who stood up against the powerful church, as ones who were possibly also anointed by Jehovah as they often were burnt or executed by the Church. John Wycliffe, Johannes Huss,  comes to mind. They kept their integrity with the available light they had at the time.   Jesus taught that ALL Christians must carry the gospel (Romans 10) How will they know if they have not heard? (paraphrased).

As I mentioned before, people who just read the bible with a sincere heart, understand that they have to preach.  I have a Swedish friend who had never read the bible in her life or been to a religious class (her parents were atheists), who tried to preach on her own after she regularly read the bible. She did not know how to go about it and no-one listened. It was not long after this that Witnesses found her and she is still a full-time preacher today.

8 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

JW's just happen to bring it back to the people

We not only preach but we are an earth-wide community or congregation of people dedicated Jehovah.  In the "last day" this prophecy is coming to fulfillment.

Isaiah 2: 2- 4 "  In the final part of the days,he mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.c ³  And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law* will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. ⁴  He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight* respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.

From the above we learn that they are under heavenly mount Zion, New Jerusalem (Hebrews 12:22 But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads* of angels).  Jesus is now ruling invisibly in heaven and we fall, as a world-wide nation under his heavenly government. The identifying mark is our love because we refuse to kill our brothers in other nations - we are not influenced by the nationalistic wars propagated by beastly nations. 

My husband grew up as a Brethren, which also has different sects.  Some of them do not even eat with their children if they have not been baptized. 

Sorry - I had problems with the reply and it posted.... lol. This has been going on for quite some years.  Muslims are "voluntarily" going for re-education to these work camps where they are forced to listen to government re-education and then write tests.  On non-private interviews (someone from govt watching), they are in fear and they all say they are very happy.   Their children (who have been taken away and put in schools for the right education) are now learning that the state cares for them also with state propaganda.

Their parents make clothing (forced labor) for the State who in turn gets contracts from Nike and other  top brand Western companies.  

The other secret which rarely gets coverage in western media and only "leaks" out at unfortunate moments, is the Falun Gong sect which has been vilified by the government to such an extent that no-one cares when they are killed for their body parts.  CCP have been doing this for 20 years and make profit from high officials coming from other countries.  One can get a perfect match for your transplant within 2 weeks.  60,000 transplants are done per year (this is what I found out while I could still get this kind of information - A few years back Chinese doctors in america where making arrangements for transplants in china and getting information this way.  There are 6 or 7 (cannot remember ) hospitals dedicated 24-7 hours a day to transplants. About 60, 000 a year. People (whose DNA is a match),  are taken in and their organs harvested while they are alive and then put directly into the waiting patient.

Reports came out to the UN a few years back that this was going on.  China assured them it will not happen again.  All that changed was that less information is coming out of China regarding this. Now and then there are headlines which indicates that there are more allegations but rarely investigated.  You will notice that this BBC report is showing pictures of Muslins before 2019.  After this most of the records seem to be encrypted.

The UN is so blind - they think that China is the model to follow..... but I am not surprised,  even other WEF trained leaders such as Trudeau think China's dictatorship is wonderful. He has openly said so.

Just now, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I don't tend to dig deep into such things but are you saying that Muslims in China are being treated as bad as JWs in Russia ?

Yes - 1.3 million in re-education camps.  This has been going on for q