Arauna

Satan - the minute he lied to Eva.

No , but you referred to Nephilim and the destruction of all. and you said a few things which are incorrect.

You forget I come from Africa and in my 70th year. I also observed animals - not just puppy at that. This is a statement which came from one of Hawkins books - these evolutionists always give themselves away. At the end of his most popular book he said this. So I suggest you re-think again . You are the one telling others to think when you have not mastered it yet...... to satirize is your forte - not the art of thinking.

She was speaking of God: he may have originally created them for a different purpose. There may have been animals that were created only to be carrion eaters. ... to clean up the animals that have died. For example - most group animals are usually herbivores. It has now come out that the Rex moved in groups (groups of tracks were found). Their eyes are more to the side like a cow..... not a predator which has eyes which look straight ahead at its prey. Its front arms are short...so how can it hang onto its prey- or push it down. It came out recently that there were floating islands of trees on the seas.....massive floating islands of hollow trees like bamboo. Who says some dinosaurs were not the sea monsters / birds that lived on these islands? There is way to little knowledge about these animals and there is much conjecture about how they lived. Many of the dinosaurs have hollow bones like birds. Many of these floating islands landed up on land during the flood and became coal deposits. They have found the bark of these hollow trees in coal deposits.

Jehovah would not destroy any who are righteous. They knew that Noah was building the ark - even Noahs father, wife and brothers did not listen...... They were NOT punished because the angels were wicked. Noah through his obedience condemned them.

All moral creatures have free will to choose in every situation what they want to do. They can choose to do it in Jehovah's way your their own way. Free will is powerful because it is a quality that we received from Jehovah - but our free will has limitations. A father watches over his child to check if he is going to hurt himself. Daddy allows the child free will to play with many things. Only when he may hurt himself or someone else the dad will intervene. Satan deliberately chose to go in opposition to his father. That is like a son who joins a gang just because his father warned him against it. He then goes on to kill and then destroy his own life.

I do not agree. The THEORY of multiple universes is to give the evolutionists a way out of their conundrums. The current theories do not give enough time for evolution to develop the complexity of life we see... so multiple universes give more opportunities for evolutionary "chances" to bring about life. I did not make this clear in my comment above and some here just assumed I believe in multi universes. No this is not possible - math is not reality but a language tool (as I said). No matter how many dimensions there are in this universe - if there was perfect (moral) life in another part of it - then Jehovah need not have sent Jesus to die for us. An angel became wicked (Satan) and a human became disobedient...so it is already an universal issue. Jesus is the ONLY perfect one from both realms (the invisible and born in the visible), whom Jehovah could use to provide the ransom. Other perfect angels could have come but they did not fit the bill. Jesus was the only one directly created by Jehovah and Satan could have made the allegation that he has too much of a perfect life - as he did with Job. There are no other moral beings in other places, except the angels and humans. Our animals cannot think morally because we are the crown of Jehovah's creation. Animals, insects and other forms of lower life, even apes, cannot appreciate beauty or look far into the future like humans can or distinguish right from wrong. If there were no humans on earth to appreciate the beauty and generosity around them - then it would be as if the earth did not exist in a conscious moral way. Animals could not appreciate this earth. They merely act on instinct and survival.

Agreed - but it is interesting that he submitted a paper - printed posthumously which indicated less universes.

A few years back there were 22 multiverses. before Hawkins died he actually reduced the number. The reason they have all these multiverses is that it allows for "chance" to create something. We know this is absurd but this is how they make the jackpot of gambling on "chance" bigger. These theories are calculations done by math.... but remember this: math is a language to express something. It does not mean it is reality or truth. It is just a tool. Too many people forget this.

ok - please tell me in which congregation of Jehovah's witnesses you will find 2 - 3 anointed people today.

How would you describe a "dimension" if the word does not yet exist? We all know that even on earth the angels move in a dimension we cannot physically detect. Beyond the physical universe there are more dimensions. In our physical universe we are bound by dimensions of time and space. Beyond this.... there is no time and space....

Very true, unfortunately child services have also become predatory.... because the privatized institutions get funded by the government and are profit driven. (This is another very dark scenario). Calling Police (to the average person) is a frightning prospect because a bad policeman can be the beginning of a frightening nightmare. The FBI is tenfold worse. Citizens do not know how to hold them legally to order if they break the law themselves. Race may also be an issue. A lot of what goes on is just raw display and use if power. We have human laws but they are not enforced in a loving way..... and are not fair to all. Most JWs also do not know how to act when an elder has overstepped the mark. Bottom line: injustice can happen anywhere and all humans are vulnerable to mild or hardened predators and all degrees of injustice. One is just fortunate if something really bad has not happened to you.

I add: There is a brazenness in women who want some form of control. Of course elders can also overreact and see any form of " confidence" as a threat to their "authority". The fact is that all of us are imperfect and can misinterpret what we perceive and subsequently "defend" our turf.......... actions which are totally unchristian and egotistic.

Why do you keep using the medieval English? Is it because it fulfills an alternate purpose? The saints are today called the anointed. It is almost as though you are promoting "apartheid" of the congregation and above them the "saints". ... The prophecies in Ezekiel clearly point to the unity of the entire congregation, the little flock and the great crowd. I am a woman, and I am pretty capable and not over- emotional as some women are.... but I prefer men to deal with problems in the congregation thank you.

Adam and eve started aging the minute they sinned. Sin brings death. They just took longer (950 years ) to die because they were perfect.... so it took longer. Satan being a spiritual being started to deteriorate too. We do no know how.... but it will bring eventual death. He will live lmuch longer than humans before he dies. Having a spiritual body .... jehovah will destroy him before he dies by himself. He was never immortal but mortal..... that is why God can destroy him. He has not received immortality.

Do not take a brother to a (secular) court of law...... In the beginning of the forming if Christian congregations, all were (saints.) .... referring to the anointed. All were anointed in the time of Paul. One would really have to turn over every rock today to find an anointed or even 2 or 3 if only they were to handle a case.... This is why we have a slave to teach us..... and they act as administrators today ...... do u understand the practical impossibility if your suggestions?

I do not think it is loving to get the entire church/ congregation involved. This can cause sides.... a big boohaa. It is not loving to expose any person in this way unless it becomes exceedingly serious. Two or three is an exact number... do only what the bible says..... and this 2 or 3 happens ONLY if u have tried numerous times to correct the matter.. between yourself and the offender. ..Those who know about the matter are not supposed to talk to others as it can become slander....... a serious offence. When it reaches the stage that ALL must know about a matter is when a matter is so serious that all should not eat or drink with such a person.

Romans: But God recommends his own love to us* in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. To be imperfect is to be sinful. All men fall short of the glory of god. Romans 3:23 ( we are all sinners or "imperfect" in more tolerable terms.) To be a sinner means to "miss the mark" of perfection. I think we all understand these words. It is narcissistic to create a gorge over words.... that is a saying in my language.

The bible shows that we must hope if they are not following Jehovah's standards but I do not trust them just because they are human. When I was a widow I learnt the true nature pf people - the hard way. I was an innocent and believed all people to be different levels of good. I have learnt the hard way. Humans have perfection to the degree that they can perfectly accomplish the purpose and morals as instructed by Jehovah. Without Him they are following their own ideas and can become fallible. Only Jehovah has absolute perfection which is infallible.

This is a fact - one cannot say they have NO spirit. This belies all the promises from Jehovah. They do have our trust because they are honest and do their best for us. The prophecy in Ezekiel we have just studied indicates that there will be an administration. Why? because they give us food at the proper time so the whole brotherhood remain in unity. Without this organization everyone will be doing their own thing and teach different things. We remain one because we are united. If we understand something differently we wait until better light comes. We realize Jehovah has to work with flawed human beings...... not infallible. So you seem to have a beef with us..... but you have NO trust. The prophecy in Isaiah 2: 2-4 indicates that in the last days Jehovah will have ONE people out of all the nations and law will go forth from Zion.... Surely this info needs to be redistributed? So yes.... the organization is not your idea of perfection ...... but God never gave an indication that it would be perfect. But they have been diligent to prepare us for Armageddon and displaying the qualities of god, which includes trust and love for god and for our brothers.

There were false Christians (weeds already amongst the Christians which would exploit this to their own benefit. The Greek influence (gymnasiums in the decapolis etc) was so prevalent as well. They stuck to the main tenants of the christian faith but it soon morphed into something more powerful. Constantine the great saw the potential and exploited it. If it proved to be true it is prophecy. Today we just deal in direct prophecy received from Daniel, john and gospels - those which pertain to our day. The other prophecies have mostly gone into fulfillment. When we see it clearly manifesting so that there is NO doubt - then we can say it pertains to our day.

I stick to the bible itself - it interprets itself.

You used the word above... I think you have no concept of the meaning or you are using hyperbole. I have seen no extremism amongst JWs. That is why I corrected your use of words.

You pretend to be debating but you are actually, by your dishonest and leading questions, bringing up another contentious subject. You are devious and a great pretender!