Arauna

10 hours ago, AlanF said:

d you JW apologists can't touch my proof.

If name-calling is proof then you are really good at proving  it! 

1 hour ago, AlanF said:

irrelevant to this thread topic.

both philosophies originate from the same source - a denial of god - satan

19 hours ago, xero said:

like Enoch, which clearly has mythological elements,

The book of Enoch is a 2nd century BCE  forgery of so-called things which happened before the flood with a lot of myths etc. included. This is responsible for misleading so many people at present.  The black Israelites love this book!  The lies it spews about Lilith (Adam's so-called first wife) etc. appeal to them.   

Both Enochs lived during the life-time of Adam and there was a flood in between but yet this person writes as though he has all the inside details... totally fake and it does not fit in with the rest of the bible.   The bible had been completed by Ezra in 5th century BCE.  Jesus quoted from all scripture except Ester.... but the Jews still celebrate the festivals for the deliverance of the Jews by Ester in Persia.

The Jews took some of these legends on in their oral tradition. .... it is no wonder that first century Christians were aware of it.

I listened to a little of the video you quoted. Be careful, while it sounds good, I realized it is not deep stuff at all. Because it does not confirm the sweeping statements it makes with scriptures that one can go and look up.  

17 hours ago, AlanF said:

Best to just bite the bullet and admit that Genesis is largely myth.

I listened to poetry of Karl Marx recently. The goal of communism is this:  Karl Marx hated God so much that he swore  revenge on God.  He decided to create a philosophy which would destroy all religion and take away all morality from human beings. Break up old culture, family bonds, property ownership - in fact everything which has stabilized modern societies which gave some human rights. He would use the idea that all outcomes for people must be equal.....an idea which came out of the French revolution. This will catch those in the net who are not spiritual but 'materialistic' to want more things to create the idea of equality of outcome.   This is why we see the west going godless, without morality, LGBTQ and transgenderism and sexual boundaries overturned, property rights will soon go too!  etc etc. and all those who scream for equality of outcome - which is totally different too equality under law. equal treatment and equal justice.

Marx wanted to get his revenge on God by creating a system which would suppress all righteousness (religion) with the end of his satanic goal would be to force all humans to obey animalistic and materialistic goals....... bottom line - all these people will be too unrighteous (no morals) for God to redeem.

Marx got a windfall -which was Darwinism -  a branch of satanic 'religion' which claims to be science but is not.  Look at the inroads it has made in mankind. Death and murder has been the result of atheism and Darwinism.  100 million humans starved and killed in the 20th century in communist countries...... and the west is going totally neo-communistic...at present too!....... only they call it a new name - the 'great reset' or communalism. 

Most universities are in the throws of this movement - one cannot even get a job if you challenge the "religion / trend of evolution and these new philosophies .....so it does not surprise me that AlanF is so full of himself.  It is temporary.  We are trying to do him a favor by showing him how indoctrinated he is..... but he seems to be a hopeless case of pride.

1 hour ago, xero said:

muttered something I forget and shut the door.

Great experience!

37 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

stay away from higher education because you will loose your faith in JHVH. :))

Agreed - You will be a wackademic!  you will be programmed in all the neo-communistic philosophies which deny god.  a disciple of the new un-science which cannot reproduce an experiment but can only accept theories on paper by peer review. The neo science which puts out papers which proves that your genes does not make one a boy or a girl but social conditioning - lol.  The evolutionist professors which say that aliens seeded life; ....... and the list goes on..

Science is no longer science - it has been compromised by ideologies such as darwinism, LGBTQ and other philosophies.

8 minutes ago, xero said:

appear to have some humility.

says the person who does not even understand the word!

1 minute ago, xero said:

final exam questions at MIT was "Create life. Explain

Yes - the scientist in the video says there are many claims to this effect but it is false... watch the video.  It is easy to put it on paper and even claim it in publications but in real life one runs into too  many problems.

13 minutes ago, AlanF said:

are at kindergarten level,

lol...... playing the game of knowing it all!

5 minutes ago, xero said:

sure you're right, but I lack the intellectual capacit

That is exactly WHAT evolutionists DO IS try MAKE YOU INFERIOR AND 'PRETEND' THEY KNOW THE ANSWERS!   The video above was good because this man (who by the way is a scientist and not the label AlanF puts on everyone to dismiss them! ) shows all the errors and the false claims evolutionists make!   This man  builds cells and makes the chemicals parts for it.  He knows how incredibly hard it is and goes into details.  

5 minutes ago, AlanF said:

familiar with the religious doctrine called 'Intelligent Design' than you are.

Yes - I bet you have never tried to engineer a cell - just the membrane alone and the formation of the building blocks of the it is a marvel.  I bet you did not watch it! You dare not watch it right through!  Your "religion" will make you feel too uncomfortable.

22 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Certainly a move toward banning religion, BUT not just aimed at JWs. 

the best will turn against all religion.... so that is bible prophecy going into fulfillment

1 minute ago, xero said:

Perfectly fits the idea of the UN. It's a reflection. But the actual power of the UN is the US at this point, but more and more it's China. 

Yes the seven heads were empires. This "image is a reflection of all previous empires together with 10 kings (a biblical complete number) and is the organization which prescribes policy to all. So it rules in a different way that the previous heads but more powerful over the earth in order to declare peace and security over the entire earth.... a counterfeit kingdom of Satan, trying to imitate Jehovah's kingdom. But Satan is the father of death.... it will not bring good things.

18 minutes ago, xero said:

That all the governments will give their power to the UN seems a way off.

LOL.  Most JWs do not know that UN Agenda 21 and Agenda 2030 is in full swing.  You can go and read the documents  on the UN website or even watch a video about it. It looks innocent enough but when you understand neo-communism you will get a shock.  Most people are appalled at what the UN are planning and most write about it in a negative way.  A central government body that will be a totalitarian system (one under which one will not be able to buy or sell or say what you think. They will control all food water, energy and more). To crown it all, the UN already has many non-government organizations in most countries that have been implementing local laws to bring their Agenda 2030 to fruition.  it is usually called "sustainable development " organizations , a title that does not make people associate it with the UN.  These have been funded by the UN or the billionaires who have charity foundations/organizations. They pay no tax on their earnings and put their money where they want to help their cause - which is UN agenda 2030.

People who go to local council meetings only get 3 minutes to object and then are let out of the room... the officials then go on putting legislation in place which permanently  changes the use of the land.  Many farmers suddenly find that they have to pay carbon tax etc.and can only use a small piece of land    The UN  also made an agreement with the WEF (World Economic Forum) two years ago (type it in on Google and look at the document). 

What is the WEF?   All the richest oligarchs, technocrats and corporations on earth belong to the WEF.  They are deciding world policy and how it should be implemented during their "closed " or a better word is secret.... meetings. DAVOS and Bilderberg are just two of these yearly meetings. No one knows what they decide. The G20 and G7 usually also talk about world policy to unite the world in a kind of federation under the UN. Have you not understood how all media and tech companies censor what they do not want you to know?

This plan has been going on since 1957.  BUT now they have the technology to surveille everyone( as  they are doing in China)  with the help of  FB, google, and the rest..... and decide if you are worthy to live under this system. "Worthy" which is a behavior passport and a vaccination passport which will allow you to move around in your city to buy your food or not. Now they have the technology to bring this powerful system in.

I can tell you much more about what they are planning but what is happening is BIBLE PROPHECY GOING INTO EXACT FULFILLMENT...... AS JWs have understood it. Rutherford spoke about a totalitarian system but expected it too early

Great hunger is coming and abuse of technology. The 4th industrial revolution is part of this plan.  What is this ? the idea to unite us biologically with a central computer system.  Can they do this?  Yes - they have researched crowd control, and Elon Musk is researching Neurolink; Google and FB are doing AI research and the nanotechnology is already so far advanced that they can do frightening things.  Gen 11:6 - read it.  We are here already.  Will these people use advanced technology for the good of mankind or to gain control of the earth and all its people?

They are also using this lockdown to do an economic reset.  By next year they are planning to reveal a plan for everyone to be on digital money.  Most small businesses in the world will be closed - even airlines.  They will put all people without work on a universal paycheck.... which sounds wonderful .... but you will have to obey their new morality and the new rules. Later they will offer to pay your debt - all house and student debt - for your consent to adhere to all rules. No one will own a house any longer. Most will have to live in a city

They plan in to bring in a new morality for all people and will eventually turn against all religion to get this done...... do you start to figure out what is happening? or do you think it is 'conspiracy' or thumb-suck?

China has an important place in the UN and UN thinks that china is the best role-model for the world.  Do you understand where we are heading? China has more than 1 million people in re-education camps and have taken their children away from them because they are Muslim... This week they burned all religious books they could find.  They have been doing  60,000 transplants per year with body parts they take from  Falon Gong prisoners - a religions they have designated terrorist just because their numbers were growing fast. China s CCP (central govt) does not tolerate this. 

No wonder Jehovah says no flesh will be saved if he does not step in. My dear brother - do not be non-shalant about this.... we are already far down the line towards the UN ruling the world. They are determined to get their plan completed before 2030 and are using this lockdown to do it

.  I believed our organization and therefore have been watching the UN all the way .. and their shenanigan's. 193 countries out of 196 already signed agenda 21  more than 30 years ago. There is no way they can turn back..... soon everyone will willingly hand over their personal autonomy to the UN.  They will own us and we will have to obey them or  face the consequences!

I really can tell you much more ... but i leave it for another day....

all the best

You cannot say that you do not see prophecy going into fulfillment ... as we speak.

 If you look under 'mountains' in the Insight book you will find that mountains were places of refuge to provide protection. The kingdom of jehovah under christ is also depicted as  a mountain which fills the earth. 

Human governments and human institutions are often depicted as mountains. Da 2:35, 44, 45 compare to Isaiah 41:15; Re 17: 9-11, 18. Babylon was called a "ruinous mountain. "

The insight shows that the mountain in Revelation 8:8 "something like a great mountain  burning with fire" which refers to a form of  rulership which has a destructive nature like fire. It has a devastating effect on the "sea"    (wicked humankind) according to Isaiah 57:20. 

When one reads other prophecies about the destruction of Jerusalem and subsequent exile one realizes that some of these expressions were symbolic - especially when referring to planets and stars.  Yet literal darkness came when Jesus died on the stake as this was a most unrighteous act ever in history - his murder which hurt jehovah. 

While there may be physical signs in the heavens, this will not be the most important ones. I personally think that the effects on society will be more devastating when an escalation of bad events hits them and the world government and its 10 kings (rev 17)  is incompetent.... all their beautiful promises to bring 'peace and security' totally  forgotten. Most of the 'bowls' thrown out have effects on humankind not on nature.... but of course humans are still ruining the earth.

When the 8th king starts to rule and the regular institutions which used to protect people - these  no longer do what they are supposed to or are sent into destruction - peoplec will feel so helpless as though it all is collapsing on them.

Dense darkness is such that one cannot see in front of you.... one is disorientated.  With life chattering events taking place it will be like one is walking in dense darkness and totally disoriented.  

In Arabic (semitic language)  the word for darkness has an associated meaning of extreme injustice. The world will be a frightning place when what is righteous is called wrong and what is evil is called right.  Injustice, incarcerations or liquidation if you serve God, the taking of your property etc.   We are heading this way at present with the new world philosophy and worship of the state  that is being foisted upon us with the   "  great financial reset".  It is now in the news quite often. 

When these life changing experiences come, the world's previous stable structures will be gone..... one can compare this to the stable" earth" . Darkness and suffering will indeed be on literal earth. The problems will be like scorching fires being thrown on mankind.. 

These problems will wake up some people to the truth as the signs in society will be clear. Some are already saying that the bible predicted unforeseen death with the 4 horses in revelation.  Soon the birth pains will multiply........ the conclusion of the perousia and with propaganda leading to Armageddon. Rev 16:14 -16.

Many will become like Pharoah, harden their hearts and be destroyed at Armageddon.

Be careful - we do not want to be like the pagans who counted on physical signs to guide them and predict the future. We walk by faith..... and we understand that most are looking for physical signs of christs return . We know better.... we know he has been ruling amidst his enemies since 1914.    The signs in society will soon tell us where we are in the stream of time. 

Lockdowns.... already here.... like the Jews in 66Ce were locked in when Rome came the first time........ 

Pretty much of it going into fulfillment right now!  What verses were you interested in?

16 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

And I should listen to an ex-witness and Watchtower hater,

These guys have forgotten what they used to know about the bible.  They remind me of an opposer who knew the principles of god very well and asked: Did god really say that you must not eat from every tree in the garden?? Like a troll he put a bad idea in her head. 

The same machinations going on here... and sometimes it is open OCD-hostility.

Thank you sooo much - I loved it.  I wish people Like alanF would look at it to the end. 

14 hours ago, Witness said:

.And “uncircumcised Gentiles".

How did we get from "we must obey god" rather than men regarding the government authorities to this subject?  

1 hour ago, Witness said:

It had power over the temple activities - over the priesthood. 

yes..... the Rabbis followed the Mishna - the oral tradition - which was written down after the destruction of Jerusalem.  They had power over the people and even more powerful because they could manipulate the Roman governors to the extent that they got Jesus killed as a seditionist of the Roman empire.  They were so powerful because the Romans gave them this power. The romans always appeased the Jews in this time because of the sicaree - the terrorists who assassinated opposers.  This was the reason the Roman empire became tired of the zealot Jews and came up against them in 66 CE.

13 hours ago, Witness said:

The apostles were preaching about Jesus Christ in the temple courts.  The Jewish high priest and the Sadducees, were filled with “jealousy”, because converts were being made.  They had them put in the publ

you do know that they were "rulers " do you not? The Sanhedrin had tremendous power.  They had so much power that Felix and Festus were trying to appease them and were planning to give Paul to the sanhedrin....... when Paul understood what they were up to, he asked for justice from Caesar.

29 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

how me where I have written that the Superior Authorities o

The scripture shrecko quoted himself  indicates this - that god and authorities are separated - they are not the same.  They are mentioned separately. Pay to god what needs to go to Him and to the secular authorities their due.  

Mark 12:  Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, ³⁰  and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’ This is the greatest and first commandment.

 “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.”—Acts 5:28, 29; when they brought the apostle peter and others before the Sanhedrin - the authority of the Jews - recognized by Rome

John 18:36  Jesus answered:a “My Kingdom is no part of this world.b If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews.c But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.”

matthew 26"  Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place,a for all those who take up the sword will perish by the sword.b

Romans 12 ¹⁷  Return evil for evil to no one.a Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. ¹⁸  If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men.b Only when the secular authorities forces one to violate the instructions of god - then you do not rebel but obey what god requires.. 

Nebuchadnezzar forced all his subjects to bow down to the image he set up in the valley but three young Judean men refused to bow down to his mage - they disobeyed state orders! They were prepared to die and be put in a fire!

So we obey and are peaceable as far as possible. 1 peter 3:15  But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild tempera and deep respect.b

Jehovah has always separated his worship and the state  -( except when he is the ruler. As in the time of Israel , the throne belonged to Jehovah.)

At Armageddon all those who obey the beast and have its mark will be destroyed.  This is the mark of the political system. Jehovah's worship will be separate and clean (no other false god will his people bring before Jehovah - no worship will be given to the state and the revenge they can bring upon us will not deter us from obeying our father an put his wishes before that of men.

Just now, Srecko Sostar said:

ou think about "separation" in Old Israel Theocratic State,

You are not making yourself clear - what separation?

12 hours ago, AlanF said:

cknowledge that Dear Mommy Watchtower 

The violin comes in at this section of the song called:  bla, bla, bla!  

Here is a graceful way of saying it in an old Gershwin song!  Lol.  I do not take your taunt seriously!

14 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

give God and give Cesar", because this are Two Masters you have to please :)) and Bible is very clear with command to JW members; obey, be in subjection to secular government :))

You yourself said give to god what god requires..... but it seems that Caesar is more important to you because if Caesar requests you to disobey the law of god then you seem as though this carries more weight with you. 

Any case, it is discrimination if you target one group of people because of their religion. The government also has responsibility to uphold their own laws.  When Paul asked to go to Caesar - the governor did not decide  what he thinks is more important. No, he acted with fairness and saved Paul from the Pharisees by sending him to Caesar.

It is therefore not wrong to question if authorities are fulfilling the law accurately or being too lax on some people or too strict on others.

21 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

do you think the YHVH intervened in historical events of 1941 and helped the "Allies" to overcome the "Axis Powers"?

No..... you got it all wrong.... but I do not have the time now to explain.  I am on my way to bed it is late here in Albania