Arauna

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

In reality it's just another threat.  He

You decided it is a threat because your heart condemns you..... wake up!  He is trying to wake you up as time is running out.

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

believe they have some authority from God, to condemn to death or to reprieve. 

This proves one thing. He has not condemned you but trying to ascertain if there is a possibility that you would come back. He does not know if you have had a change of heart or if your heart is as filled with enmity and venom as I have experienced here on this forum.  

I guess he will soon find out when he approaches you. .... or maybe your wife told him.

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

been felt from at least the time of the battle of Carchemish. 

Neb was at the battle of carchemish when he got the news his father had died. He went back to take kingship.   Secular dates do not match biblical sequence of history.  At this time Israel was still a vassal of Egypt. Jehoiakim  became a vassal to Babylon. He ruled 11 years  And later  zedekia replaced him.....he also ruled 11 years if I remember correctly..... so the secular dates for these events do not fit bible events.  So one has a choice: do I accept the bible chronology or secular chronology. Does secular chronology allow for all the biblical events to fit in? 

Biblical timeline : all bbiblical events fit in perfectly.... Secular timeline- does not make sense  because one has to argue and debate where  to slot them in.

Another point:  someone here on the forum spoke to me like a child to explain babylonian astronomy - which I may understand better than they do. . 

This person does not understand the reason why the babylonians were doing astronomy.  It had nothing at all  to do with science........ Astronomical observation  was not a science like today. They observed the stars that were visible studiously because it was the "religion". The observations were all based on superstition, spells and predictions.  This person is  ignorant of the  babylonian mindset.  I originally studied Sumerian culture (which was the basis of chaldean and assyrian thinking)  to understan the babylonian mindset. 

This is a trap that many scholars fall into. They get so involved in their own theory that they miss the "thinking" culture of the time period they are talking about. 

So a modern scholar can re-interpret some of the babylonian  "interpretations " of the skies and think it is solid - I would suggest caution in accepting this as solid evidence. 

On 12/23/2020 at 1:44 AM, Ann O'Maly said:

They used their calendar, i.e. the name and regnal year of the current ruler, the month, the day, even the time of night the observation took place.

pity their king lists and the dates had to be inserted by the Greeks who came centuries later- lol

On 12/23/2020 at 5:10 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

“They’re using that law as a weapon and misapplying it to attack Jehovah’s Witnesses religious beliefs.”

Satan is behind this because we are going to prison for our neutral stance - we do not participate in any form of violence.... it is clear... our brothers are being tested.

36 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Babylon began to dominate between 629 and 625

How long did Jehoiakim reign ? do you know?  How long did Zedekia reign - do you know? Who were they vassals to?  Do you know?

On 12/23/2020 at 4:56 PM, AlanF said:

Wrong. Only parts of the place were buried. Excavations were done on the buried parts. Yet again you

As usual you change the subject.  Most ancient buildings are totally covered up and have to be excavated .....especially those in Babylon.  Pasargadae was merely an example ........ and by the way ... I went to the article you sent me to .....and it seems that you are the one who has comprehension problems. English being your first language I am quite shocked at your sloppy comprehension.  I have at least an excuse!  You do not!

So you claim this to be proof that we are supposed to find Israeli POOP in the wilderness where they wandered for 40 years?   If buildings have to be dug up ....then maybe you should have searched for the poop a bit deeper !   dont you think? 

On 12/24/2020 at 2:57 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

JW Insider giving proper model of behavior and polite,

Satan can be an angel of light -because deceit comes in all kind of forms.  A polite man can be one who speaks his own thoughts - not that of Jehovah.  

Nice does not mean good!  Remember that!  I prefer someone who is honest and maybe unpleasant - because I may not be ready to hear the truth!  and I know what I am dealing with.  Model behavior  can be misleading!

On 12/25/2020 at 11:17 PM, César Chávez said:

won't sway my understanding by junior achievers, that they are.

My brother (with 5 degrees, and an  engineering company which employed many Harvard engineers) told me that people who cannot do the job - those are the ones who become 'scholars'.  My additional experience with working with many of them confirmed this statement.

I have also looked into many of the so-called biblical scholars who write the most ignorant hypothesis ..... and I have not been intellectually impressed. ....... 

53 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

If you can't answer I assume you just made this up.

My dear - your arrogance astounds me once again as much as your patronizing ways. You are the one deviating from the bible in addition to twisting ' rephrased lines' from watchtowers to suit your agenda.  Astronomy is not the only way to discover the truth about  530 BCE.... 

"ancient historians such as Diodorus, Africanus and Eusebius show that Cyrus’ first year as king of Persia corresponded to Olympiad 55, year 1 (560/59 B.C.E.), while Cyrus’ last year is placed at Olympiad 62, year 2 (531/30 B.C.E.). (The years of Olympiads ran from approximately July 1 to the following June 30.)"

The Greeks figured time by means of four-year periods called Olympiads, starting from the first Olympiad, calculated as beginning in 776 B.C.E.

The insight book also has interesting things to say about Olympiads.  I also gave you the name of a book above which indicates that one cannot always trust astronomical writings in ancient time to produce accurate results.  But I guess you prefer those astronomical calculations above that of the bible because it proves your own brilliance and exposes large flaws in JW chronology !!  There is NO way you can be wrong.  JWs must be wrong because you know their weaknesses......  Familiarity breeds contempt !

On 12/27/2020 at 4:04 AM, scholar JW said:

Bible states clearly 70 years, plain and simple. t

Absolutely true - It is not the different groups that were removed from the land which the focus should be on but the destruction of Jerusalem as symbol of the Davidic kingdom and the destruction of the temple - Jehovah's worship on earth by his people. The Judeans thought the temple would never (be allowed by Jehovah)  be destroyed. A very sparse population remained and it became desolate land with no ' nation' dedicated to jehovah (to bring yearly sacrifices) to occupy it.  Any other strong nation could have moved in .....but Jehovah did not allow it.  For all purposes it was desolate ... people would whistle when they walked through the land.

On 12/27/2020 at 4:04 AM, scholar JW said:

Judah's servitude or 'serving' was of a duration specifically of 70 years as foretold specifically by Jeremiah.

The ten tribes had already been taken away and displaced  by Assyria when they were the world power.  Many of the peoples in the cities around Jerusalem has also been removed. Juda / Jerusalem was the capital of the Davidic kingdom.  David sat on the throne of Jehovah - this is why the kingdom in Juda (Davidic) was finally broken when Zedekia was removed.   The true heir to this Davidic throne (Jesus) would appear millennia later. 

On 12/27/2020 at 4:04 AM, scholar JW said:

please supply the specific 70 year periods for each one of those nations

Jehovah was mainly concerned about Juda and its disloyalty.  It was a punishment for their extreme disobedience and a prophecy about their return to Jerusalem.  Other nations were also punished by Nebuchadnezzar such as Tyre -  babylon were dug in around Tyre for 15 years!!!  So where can the 70 years of Tyre's  desolation be found?

One should not lose focus as regards the main theme of the bible - which is about the legitimate sovereignty of Jehovah over his dedicated people (and the king on his throne) and the restoration of his worship.  When the temple was destroyed - the kingship and worship was destroyed. When they could worship there again the desolation of the land was removed.  

 But if you say it is about other nations also yes - then give the 70 years the other nations spent in exile.

The biblical chronology only has a problem when one tries to slot in the secular dates. the 70 years then becomes 50 years. 

On 12/27/2020 at 3:42 AM, scholar JW said:

And according to INSIGHT, you can't get 539 without readings from astronomy.

That is a blatant LIE - which I am surprised you are stooping to.  But I have discovered your ego will push you to deceive in order to be right.  Olympiads lead to this date without astronomy.  Astronomy is just an additional proof NOT the main evidence for this date.

2 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

How are you doing with the little math problem, CC? I'll repost it.

I think you must go challenge someone else. It is about ego for you - not about the truth of the bible.  I read a scripture today about "contentious" ones...... one cannot reason with them. 

The bible chronology speaks louder than any stars foretell..... in unreliable pagan writings..... 

15 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

He must have had workarounds for his problem to be able to successfully submit his doctoral thesis. 

Out of curiosity, what was your thesis on, @César Chávez?

I do not have a doctorate - thanks to Jehovah. I do not tolerate the corrupting influence of self-importance.  I worked with about a hundred PHD persons when I was the PR for 13 museums. ... that was enough to open my eyes.  The same  petty and scholarly egotism was something which I also saw between silly opera singers when I worked in this field.

Yea, humans are the same everywhere...... they lift themselves up and pretend to all they are important because of what their job is.  Having a PHD allows them to understand ALL things in life perfectly -  better than lowly sheeple.  They are their job.  (Just like multi-billionaires think they have the right of their money  to decide the future of the world.) 

I must say I was not impressed with PHDs in Theology, especially those who wrote dissertations about "freedom fighters in the bible" or moses stealing ideas from sumerians.....and there are some other fields of science which I do not believe are scientific at all but closer to a blind religion with peers which act more like high priests of a cult. 

So miss o'Malley....... instead of asking if someone has a PHD, why do you rather not ask if they truly understand the ransom sacrifice of Jesus christ and where jehovah fits into this.  I think this may teuly give them a better chance of receiving everlasting life more than a misleading PHD. 

Jesus came for the lowly - not for those in the higher echelons of society. It was the higher society which rejected jesus and the truth.

Since this is supposed to be a bible forum I think that PHDs are not a criteria here. 

11 hours ago, César Chávez said:

with this false narrative of 587 BC. 

CC let them stew in their own " self-importance" and self-deceit....... and go and mislead others.   They will not mislead us.  I have looked at this again and again and found their nit-picking to be without substance.  I have actually lost some  respect for them, that which I had when I started on this forum.

The reason, they only debate, but do not fully understand the main theme of the bible and the importance if the chronology time line as the JWs understand it (with the help of Jehovah) right now.  They give credence to secular scholars but reject the bible's own chronology. This is why they come up with ideas which say that 1914 is bogus, the interpretation of nebuchadrezzar dream is bogus, the signs of 'perousia' are bogus etc. Etc. ...... and some dare to think of themselves as "enlightened" or scholarly witnesses.

JW teachings are crucial to understand the thinking of jehovah and how jehovah cares about us. He wants us to understand where we are in the stream of time to keep active and our hope secure.

Our timeline  fits in with the time-line of the 7 heads of the beast - something which they have not looked at or consider important because they do not accept WW1 and league of nations as a "sign"  they do not accept WW2 and creation of UN as part of the "sign"....  .during perousia..

We are already living under the "image if the beast" ...... which soon will receive more power (like an 8th king) and they do not even consider how this fits into what ithey are debating. They are focussing on only one room of an entire ocean liner (Titanic) while the entire boat is sinking. They are so busy debating about one room that they do not notice the final signs, which is part of this time-line of succession of the "beasts" and image of the beast which takes place during the "perousia".  

Then you have " self-heroes like alanf" with his scoffing and name-calling ( like an off-key chorus in the background.)..... quite a crazy way to dominate a conversation...... lol. 

Does this bring them in line for life under Jehovah's government?  Definitely not.  This is a futile exercise ........ being an expert in one part of the boat and not taking note of the ENTIRE boat. 

Jehovah teaches us also to remove ourselves from situations (if possible) where those who hate him are present. 

Ps 1: "Happy is the man who does not walk according to the advice of the wicked And does not stand on the path of sinners And does not sit in the seat of scoffers.  2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah,.........Nor will sinners remain standing in the assembly of the righteous.  "

The wicked are always contentious, have enmity with the people of Jehovah and make it their business to scoff.  These are qualities which are in opposition to love and truth. 

13 hours ago, AlanF said:

honestly think that 3 million people wandering around in a desert for 40 years

I have read a lot about archeology (biblical and other empires). Pasagarde has massive columns standing up about 40 feet high...... nothing was visible..... it had to be dug up.

Troy was not seen.  Schliemann went searching for it and followed the indications given by Homer......... they dug up a lost city which had disappeared.  Rivers have also changed their routes...... such as the Euphrates and many others. 

The surface of the earth can change in 3500 years and covered up deep in sand.  Anything lost in well traversed areas would be picked up an reused. Stones, jewellery etc. Organic materials rarely last long, especially shoes and clothing. Looting of graves also took place.  Archeologists are ecstatic when they find clothes or jewellery which miraculously have survived due to e exceptional conditions.  

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

I don't need confusion to govern my life. T

Excellent point.  These people are so 'smart' (by their own opinion) that they are like winds blowing hither and thither.  We know what the bible has to say about them....   because they are jumping around from this 'proof to that proof' to get their own ideas across as truth... when everything we need is in the bible. All these secular writings are "opinions" such as the opinions about the diaries mentioned above. 

The entire bible is good for teaching in the righteousness of God, making us fully equipped for everlasting life.  And the bible chronology has proven more reliable than secular dates. i.e. the period before the exodus.  the Israelites were in Avaris. The style and rooms of the dwellings are more  Assyrian - like one would find in Haran (the place where Abraham lived before entering the promised land). And these dwelling date from before the exodus and these people were sheep keepers.  There are many other examples but I do not want to open another subject.  

That is why I have constantly said here that they want to call themselves MORE than just a regular JW.  They want that label of 'scholar' or something else  because they think it puts them above the rest. They are proud. Constantly calling up old watchtowers to try to prove that the organization is or was  corrupt....... not thinking that they are exposing who they really are. Others here call themselves Christians but basically reject the chronology the bible sets out to accept secular dates which contradict what happened in the bible i.e. dates which put the exile period at only 50 years - not 70.   

I have learnt something from these so-called brilliant Christians - I have learnt that they have not worked on building their faith in the bible but trying to be politically correct by appeasing the secular people.....  

My analyses of the main theme of the bible itself tells me it is logic, consistent and has continuity and it therefore brings the true reality of god, his purpose and where the world is heading to now.  Its timeline tells me where we are in the stream of time and which prophecy will go into fulfillment next. A brief look at what is happening in the world tells me where we are.  I need no secular evidence to prove to me that the bible is reality!  I learn the thoughts of Jehovah and it gives me insight and discretion to see a fraud a mile away! 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

INSIGHT book mentioned all these pieces of Babylonian/Persian archaeology

I have read through it many times ... I know what is there..... BUT I also know that bible chronology is more important . Insight will mention secular evidence when it corroborates biblical timeline. I read through the biblical timeline again today wherein every biblical event fits in perfectly!  I am inclined to accept this as I am aware from my reading of babylonian history that it is not set in stone.  

Human scientists set themselves above jehovah. ..... and I know many scientists....... worked with them. Saw their egotism. They leave out facts and skew things to fit their theories.

CC mentioned their programs for the eclipse calculations, it reminds me of the carbon14 testing calculations...... it is what they do NOT tell you ghat is most importent not what they tell you. 

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

you know better than they do, you go girl!!

Thanks dear! I am off to bed. Tomorrow I have a full day. It is almost 12 PM here in Albania.

1 hour ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Irrelevant 

(Sorry.... could not copy entire quote:  ) Your reasoning is sloppy. If one works back from babylonian era dates and it does not make sense in the time of asurbanipal - then logic should tell you there is a problem with your later dates.......  they all should fit in and make sense. 

41 minutes ago, AlanF said:

THERE ARE NO BIBLICAL DATES WITHOUT FIRST HAVING SECULAR DATES.

Especially if secular dates are based on the wrong biblical tkings.  .....

.. I have come to a moronic conclusion that you are brilliant.......  in insults!  Hoping to see evidence of real scholarship....... not poop theories.... 

42 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Dunning-Kruger

You read about this somewhere and now everyone who does not agree with you has it.  If a kid has a hammer then everything looks like a screw   'lol.

2 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Such a liar! I accept what the Insight book says as regards coming up with 539. You've explicitly rejected it.

What! I wonder who is the deceiver. 

However, I am not going to challenge Insider or you...... I do not trust you... you cherry pick  from insight book what fits your opinion.   I do not have time to argue with you or your "poop" theories.   I rather read my insight book. 

I am pretty sure that bible chronology will withstand the test of time. It needs no stars foretell to justify it. The stars were used for superstitious purposes...... if you know babylonian culture well you will know this. It was not used for dating.   It was used for predictions..... and their calculations were done in multiplications of 60 as well. 

I read through chronological events today again. The bible is an excellent time keeper - not as unreliable as ancient writings.  Modern scholars have co d up with these star devises which are not airtight. 

27 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Thinking is HARD WORK.

You "think" it is just for the priviledged.... I have news for you.