Arauna

33 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

there is so much astronomical data and tablet and inscription evidence from the entire Neo-Babylonian period.

The astronomical data was linked to spells and events that could take place.  I read through the old king lists years ago and there were no dates linked to them or data that could  determine the date. These were later interpreted by scholars and while there is some degree of getting the succession right - the dates are by no means accurate. We start to see more accuracy with the olympiads. 

24 minutes ago, AlanF said:

rejects what the Insight book says.

False - you accuse me of what you yourself do.

6 minutes ago, AlanF said:

you think the date is confirmed, you moron?

I have looked at the olympiads and other evidence when your forefathers were still running with apes.

50 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Do you understand the distinction between astronomical dating and BCE dating now, CC? Did the diagram

You are patronizing Ann. JWs know what these are. 

12 minutes ago, AlanF said:

There are no "bible chronological dates" without first attaching one of the Bible's relative chronologies to a secular date. Why do

The bible can stand on it's own feet - it needs no secular dates.  Secular dates is just additional  evidence.

1 minute ago, AlanF said:

such nonsense.

AlanF..... you have never said anything I could think about...... not once.  Insider at least gives one something to consider..... or to be aware of (that is a compliment).

Your replies are like the excrement they are still looking for in the wilderness of Sinai. According to you there should be overwhelminging evidence of poop in Sinai  .......not like the overwhelming LACK  of evidence in finding the interim stages in the fossil record...... no bones..... bones are harder than poop and yet ie. there are no bones to prove how the wing

developed etc. 

On 12/21/2020 at 5:26 PM, Ann O'Maly said:

But I was interested in your 'much easier method' for

I have looked it up so many times on internet - no matter what subject I look up regarding Persia...... one always gets the same date for the death of cyrus.  There is NO dissent regarding this date. 

On 12/21/2020 at 5:33 PM, AlanF said:

you still can't figure out how 3 million Israelites left no traces in Sinai.

The scriptures are clear:  Israel  moved around and did not build permanent structures from mud bricks or stone.  They had food provided for them by God and their poop was organic...... worms r molds could eat it.  

BUT the best kept secret is this: there is evidence that they were in Egypt (only 300 years earlier than the scholars say). In Avaris in the Delta region they have found Joseph's pyramid and 12 small pyramids for the fathers  of the tribes. There is also an ancient  canal called Joseph's  canal. This existed approx.  3520 years ago. 

If you just read stuff against the bible you will never get to see the evidence which proves its historic authenticity. 

On 12/21/2020 at 5:35 PM, AlanF said:

Don't confuse me with facts! Just tell me what to think!"

That is the prerogative of scholarly  theories" which are accepted by peers who think too much of their own personal opinions.

9 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The latest version of INSIGHT ON THE SCRIPTURES.

I was reading it this afternoon.  I think you read into it what you want to. 

Since olympiads were like clockwork "major"  events every four years - they are pretty reliable as a secondary source after the bible. Moon eclipses is a third resource.

You throw things together that one must work out separately to get to the correct number...... you just threw in the lump nebuchadnezzar 18 year reign - sloppy...... sloppy. 

6 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The latest version of INSIGHT ON THE SCRIPTURES.

I was reading it this afternoon.  I think you read I to it what you want to. 

16 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Perhaps this is the reason that INSIGHT states that it has relied on an astronomical tablet to get to the 539 BCE date, and

It is an additional proof - not the only proof for the date. 

14 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

WTS rejects the accuracy of the olympiads,

Was that in 1930 too?

8 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

still can't understand something so basic as the astronomical dating convention for BCE dates, what are you doing here? 

He is a bible student not a star gazer. He should accept bible chronological dates before he accepts the dates of people who were not historians...... but had other pagan occupations. People  who by chance wrote hundreds of years later about events and quoted others in their work......... full lunar eclipses for example are not half eclipses......  it could be mistaken for the other, especially when copied from another's writings.

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

From 1930 to about 2018

I do not care about 1930 as I said to you before I am a baby- boomer..... any case I read the bible and follow only new light.

2 hours ago, AlanF said:

Great African Queen Arauna.

I do not need your ' compliments.' ....or attention.

2 hours ago, AlanF said:

Dunning-Kruger

Satan was always accusing jehovah of the very acts that he was perpetrating. Do you understand that phenomena?

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

Why are JWs so jealous of the True Anointed remnant ?  Don't

There is no jealousy. We all receive work and gifts  from jehovah - Anointed means that you are selected for a purpose - a job. The 'utensils ' of the temple were anointed for a specific purpose./ job..... set apart for jehovah. 

The anointed are selected to rule...... the others are not lesser vessels. The glory we bring to jehovah by our dedicated lives is just as important as that which obedient angels give or the 'bride'. All obedient ones are beautiful in the eyes of jehovah.

The moral standards the Angel's follow, the anointed follow and the other sheep follow are all the same....... and all are "universally " judged by these same standards. We are equal under God...... jehovah has no special treatment for anyone- especially if they break his law.

The law of sin is death. If you were born imperfect  you have the ransom to help you........ if you sin after this you go into second death ....... where satan and his demons and Adam and eve and Judas (and suchlike ones) will be. 

18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

course this is impossible without at least one astronomical reading.

So even if there is historical (olympiads) evidence we MUST have astronomical evidence according to you.......because this is the only evidence that will be conclusive...... even though there is proof that one must not put too much store on incomplete descriptions of "heavenly events" which could be misleading and often were copied from events written down by other writers. Please read the section in the insight book about eclipses.

Ptolemy wrote about the stars 600 years after events in Babylon  and cannot be verified as historically accurate because there is no other documents to verify it..... and its chronology creates great confusion with Asurbanipals reign. .....who claimed his father's campaigns for himself.   It does not add up.   Therefore, the bible is our best source of chronology ..... not the stars. 

Interestingly the Cyrus cylinder was found in Babylon - not in any capital of Persia.  It is written in Akkadian - which is the ancient diplomatic language of the King of Kings in chaldea and assyria - a title which originated in Babylon in Akkadian.  (Nimrod was the first to conquer other city-states in Assyria and chaldea - the original tradition comes from there!) It was a title given to kings who conquered both chaldea and Assyria in the numerous wars between the 2 regions. Nebuchanezzar is called the king of Akkad. 

In this Cyrus cylinder,  Cyrus claimed that the God of Babylon, Marduk, gave him his crown to bring peace to the realm and send displaced peoples back.  An indication that he received his crown as king of kings at this location.

He was the first king to appoint Satraps. He had done this when he conquered Croesus (minted gold coins) and many other territories before appointing Darius the Mede as Satrap at Babylin.  He did leave Babylon to go back to Ecbatana where he had a summer palace. 

The decree to rebuild Jerusalem was later found at Ecbatana (Ezra 6).   But interestingly the cyrus cylinder has an event on it which happened after he brought order to the city - some time after 539 bce: 

"It extols Cyrus as a benefactor of the citizens of Babylonia who improved their lives, repatriated displaced people and restored temples and cult sanctuaries across Mesopotamia and elsewhere in the region. It concludes with a description of how Cyrus repaired the city wall of Babylon and found a similar inscription placed there by an earlier king." 

3 hours ago, John Houston said:

Wanting to be ahead, leading, never following? The road is cramped not spacious, somebody has to be behind, following others.If you do not like those who are leading, make your own

My brother - I give you a handshake. You understand the true Christian mindset. These people, who think themselves anointed Christians, do not have the Christian traits.

They could do a better study of Ephesians 4 " Therefore I, the prisoner in the Lord, appeal to you to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called,  2 with all humility and mildness, with patience, putting up with one another in love,  ..............Put away from yourselves every kind of malicious bitterness, anger, wrath, screaming, and abusive speech, as well as everything injurious.  32 But become kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, freely forgiving one another just as God also by Christ freely forgave you."

15 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

When the True Anointed appear then the GB will quickly disappear. 

You sure think you know it all - so I step down. I am not contentious.... no arguments to satisfy your wish for contention. 

The meek shall inherit the earth - together with Abraham, Noah, Isaac, Jacob, Job, Enoch.  Since the same Christian principals apply to both anointed and those who receive earthly resurrection, the new testament must be read just as much and enthusiastically by all.  It is good for teaching and correction in righteousness for all who want to live a clean and faithful life. 

2 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

It's OK. I'm not expecting her to. 

I only peek in now and then. I really do not have the time or the will to read through all of the half-baked information presented here. I have a life!  

I give a comment now and then but frankly, I do not have the ego or the wish to stay in here  to present a "winning" argument. I know what I know and I am content. Some here view the subject as a contest which they have to win at all cost. 

Some obviously are lost souls and it is sad - because they are so mistakenly cocksure. Trinitarians, evolutionists, and others...... but they have a right to their opinions.....

4 hours ago, AlanF said:

Arauna: Well said. This

I do not want your approval - even in sarcasm.  Your words are too obnoxious and abhorent. 

Your science is based on peer consensus( like much of the science these days) which is not science but a buddy-buddy system so you can be part of the group-think. .......With no-one prepared to say: the emperor has no clothes on! 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

This is why I'm glad to have  my views corrected -- no matter whether the person correcting me knows the WTS reasoning

Thanks for this..... we all should have this attitude. 

23 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

reasonable doubt in your mind if you trash the very methods used to obtain that date?

Please explain how I trash the methods?  

15 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Cyrus was viewed as having acceded the throne as early

This had nothing to do with business but with a powerful and superstitious religious system which always trumped business.

17 minutes ago, AlanF said:

this was almost certainly done on or about Nisan 1, 538 BCE in connection with the Akitu Festival and Cyrus' inauguration.

I have said the same (and was the first to say so).

19 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Quote

Time will tell.

Where have I heard that before?

I remember the "group-think " of nazi Germany. Like a herd of sheep they went along with the current ideology. Too afraid to be different. You remind me of that ..... you have the groupthink found at universities

22 minutes ago, AlanF said:

guess the entire world of solid science has also fallen

Yes- if DNA no longer determines gender..... but how you are indoctrinated..... then science is no longer sound. When doctors perform tons of gender transitions without giving the "young children"  a chance to make sure and take them away from their parents - then it is 'warped ' science and merely a desire for power.  It is science without a conscience.

When science is used to control people's minds and hook them up to computers for control ..... then it is no longer about pure science or truth but about CONTROL. I can go on.  When information is weaponized,  then it is no longer a noble search for knowledge but an evil desire for power. 

I gave examples of other things I have researched such as Islam. When university studies blatantly lie or leave out information which can change the picture - there is no longer a search for truth or a scientific method. I can go on and on.... but you think like the  group - not about right or wrong and do not care about justice...... otherwise you would have noticed what is going on under your nose.

38 minutes ago, AlanF said:

How did 3 million Israelites wander the Sinai wilderness for 40 years without leaving even bits of poop as evidence?

Are you looking for fossilized poop? I come from Africa and I have seen how quickly poop can dissipate. It is an organic material - not metal or plastic. In archeology one is very lucky if one finds a poop which is still intact. Poop was not embalmed like cats and crocodiles in Egypt ...lol. conditions must be ideal for preservation. 

The bible says that the entire creation is suffering due to the choices that the first man Adam made - independence from God.

Roman's 8:" that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God.  22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now." 

God created everything to work perfectly together but it has been corrupted.