Arauna

I am not bitter at all - just taking you on for accusing JWs of being hypocrites when you yourselves are standing behind the door. Yes my eyes are bad and my fingers are numb but I am still managing to write a book.... to walk around, enjoy the sun, to do field service and keep in touch with my loved ones. What else do I need? I am content. Many people do not even know I have these problems because I am upbeat and I do not complain... and I look very healthy.... I just hate having to select the quotes on this forum because it takes a long time to select it.

You are denying all the scriptures in the bible which refers to this. So you are deliberately obtuse. you are saying God is making an abnormal rule......You talk like an atheist. Why should I take you seriously when you do not take the bible seriously. You say you accept the bible …… but only the parts you like.

Starting a cell - heh? now that is an example of communist propaganda.....

I do not think you ever were witnesses - you had a 'form of godly devotion' as the bible says. JWs are taught not to fear labels... whether in your imagination or for real. Your excuses are just too absurd. You most probably strengthened him in his cowardice, painting him a victim of privilege.... when he helped to cover up wrongdoing by choosing to keep quiet in the congregation. Don't negate the point. You quoted several evils that come from various scriptures...… the point is you detest these qualities and actions, yet you find fault with us for not mixing socially with these kinds of people......

You quote this scripture but you still think it OK to mix with such ones on a social level? You condemn us for disfellowshipping such ones? Where is the hypocrisy? hhhhmmmmm.

Fornication - if your son had proof of this - he himself was guilty as an accomplice - because he did not let the elders know. He knows the principles set out in the bible.... we learn that we should not tolerate wickedness amongst us. We do not help to cover up a problem, or wrongdoing. How many times did David not write in the Psalms that he does not sit with the wicked or tolerate their deeds. So your own thinking is warped as you assisted your son to accuse the elders …….but not to be part of the solution to the problem - to show courage and go to the elders and provide evidence, ....…...or at least warn them so they could talk to the young man.....about his partying and drinking. If your son did not have proof of fornication to take to the elders but did not warn them that the young man is on a self-indulgent path - he is is as guilty as you...I presume he had some warped guidance from you or have the same attitude as you. He, like you, expected to get a guilty conviction from elders for behavior they probably were unaware of; they probably had no idea of the extent of the partying. If there was not enough proof of adultery, your son could still have been part of the solution but instead blamed it on …...….privilege? Victimhood attitude? He could have been brave and been part of the solution but no, it is easier to be self-righteously superior and accuse the,,,,, privilege.... Did he expect the elders to have a crystal ball? Did he expect the elders to follow up on the young man when they did not know that it was a pattern of behavior... Elders would have asked the young man if it is true.... maybe even believed his ...excuses...... but the young man would have been warned that he is on their radar. Your son would have had the satisfaction that he pleased Jehovah - not people. So if this issue came up again by another person telling the elders about the partying and drinking..... 2 witnesses,,,,that would be enough for elders to get serious about the young man and realize he is hiding something and maybe outright ask him if he has been involved in fornication...… So your example is not proof of injustice and 'privilege' but proof of a sons cowardice to show integrity to snitch on buddies, which is as destructive as self-righteousness.

Seen enough of your warped accusations and logic. As I said before - you feed off your hate somehow...which is not based on justice. It is based on raw emotion of hate for everything to do with JWs, GB. Arguments that show both sides ( and there are people on this forum who are prepared to meet your arguments by validating some things you say, to try to think the way you do, in order to reason with you) these people do not touch your reasoning abilities at all. It is like Ground Hog Day (over and over) same old same old.... talking to you. There is another person on here - same thing. Over emotional - no sound biblical reasoning. Just triggered. triggered all the time …,,,, not using the bible as a sound, logical, healthy disciplining tool (which I am prepared to listen to if arguments are based on reality) but as a self-righteous weapon to accuse, accuse, accuse...…… . It is really like ground hog day talking to you guys. I have seen such good reasoning here on this forum and have learnt a lot myself.... but with you two - it is like a cul-de-sac - the pits.

What part of Jehovah's word do all of you NOT understand? You profess to be Christians, but hate the word of God which instructs us to not eat or speak to those who are repeat offenders. Cesar mentioned a few scriptures above. I can add quite a few more.... So what do you have against these scriptures? Instead you attack JWs because we OBEY (not elders) but the WORD of God. You follow your own desires and hate us because we OBEY.. So - who are the HYPOCRITS? Those who profess the bible but do not obey its finer details? ... or JWs who DO obey the finer details? HMMMMMM...…

They may have put it in writing a few places ……. However, I have never heard elders announce from the platform that someone was "shunned" they always use the word "disfellowshipped". That is the official term used. This includes the meaning that a person can still come to meetings with restrictions if they accept the discipline. To me this is a lot of nitpicking - because these accusers do NOT accept that the bible says. The bible is clear that we should have nothing to do with a repeat offender or share in his actions. No matter what terms are used for it..... They therefore blacken the name of JWs and thus thereby prove they are opposers of Jehovah's written word because this is a clear instruction from Jehovah to protect the congregation members from the "leaven" that can grow in a congregation.

And these words do NOT exist in our vocabulary. We use a different word which indicates that the person can still associate but without the privileges they had before.. So what part of this is hypocritical? The fact that you do not like that people do not have ALL the priviledged they had before? Here you remind me of the parent who does not put the child in time-out as he said he would. He still loves the child but the child needs consequences for actions taken.......

Typical, 4Jah did not like this sentence. He just likes the JWs to carry the blame to fulfill his hate-ocd. He is not really interested in justice.... the perpetrator can go free and the JWs must 'pay' the penalty...… that is HIS kind of justice... (capitals deliberate). The typical unreasonable guy I would NOT like to have as a friend.

Well said. I sympathize with all victims but with the latest laws the government has shifted the responsibility of bad legislation onto all the organizations working with children. The government changed the laws so the victims can go after old cases retroactively now they are adult and can talk and testify better and take the ' organization ' to court. This means that the government is shifting its responsibility on the organizations who work with children. But many of these organizations have closed.... like boy scouts etc. We are still active. There are not many JW cases but because it is JW, those who hate us blow up these cases as if we are all child molesters..... when most of us live clean, honest lives and hate these crimes. They are not going after the perpetrator because they know it is too hard to convict. They go after the organization - which in most cases did not have the resources ( child psychologists etc) to go after the perpetrator. We are an organization which tries to create a safe environment for children but we are not a crime fighting organization. This is the job of the police and government. They should take these cases and get a conviction and put the perpetrator behind bars - not retroactively after 20 or 30 years put it on the organization. In this way the perpetrator is still walking free and JWs carry the shame. Perpetrator ....... does he have any consequences for his actions with this legislation!

Am I to be disciplined? Oh no not 4jah - he is going to decapitatate me

Jehovah will forgive the finger slip.... obviously you NOT. Nitpicking is your forte.

I notice you are getting picky on silly acronyms - where I come from we do not use them but in USA they are popular... so I use them on this forum. God is only a title..... so do not pick a fight on silly things to get away from being exposed.

You are the one who mentioned that people cannot drink a beer together etc. It is so harsh... well this is why I used the example of a child being put in time-out. If you are in time-out... take the discipline of Jehovah and start to serve him again. Do not let your pride get the better of you.

Living on top of others is not easy - so no - it will not be nice.... but as you say : live the best you can for Jehovah...

YOUR words are so twisted - no logic. You do not see anything wrong with your reasoning? You are like a person who tells a child NOT to do something because it is bad....it will hurt his brother and himself......you will put them in time-out... for punishment. Then when the child deliberately does it …… you put him in time-out and he screams as if you are murdering him..... He plays the victim and gets attention by playing the victim. He is so stubborn he does not calm down and think about what he did...…...so you feel ashamed for the discipline and take him out of time-out …..without the child ever learning that there are consequences to his dangerous behavior and disobedience. (I have seen kids like this many times in my life - uncontrollable, especially in shops - because they have never had proper consequences for bad behavior). Then when these children turn out to be irresponsible as adults ….. because they are adults now they now become innocent? They have rights to break gods laws? or do they need Jehovah's discipline if they want to serve him.... Or does Jehovah not discipline those he loves? Hebrews 12: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; 6 for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.” 7 You need to endure as part of your discipline.God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?" Most JWs know there is consequences to a pattern of dangerous spiritual behavior. They KNOW the consequences but are not prepared to take the time-out. To humbly attend meetings will get them back on a path to reinstatement but NO their sensitive egos and rights are more important that serving Jehovah. They howl and scream like a stubborn child and publicly call the JWs and GB cruel etc. Their stubbornness does not bring them favor with Jehovah or teach them respect or obedience to Jehovah's laws. They apply the laws of Jehovah in the way their own DESIRES dictate.... then they howl in public how bad JWs are.... when we are the ones strictly adhering to the dictates of the very one (Jehovah) they claim to serve.

We expect anything to happen. So we will just go on worshipping jehovah and obeying his laws by self-regulation. Your world will fall apart. Because the purpose of your life seems to be to oppose JWs, GB..... so when this purpose is no longer there, the meaning for your life will be gone. Your goal is not to obey god and you do not accept any help to do so in a better way. The GB only faciliteates our faith.

That is applicable to any christian religion that follows the bible.... not just JWs.... the bible says you will die if you do not obey jehovah. Adam is in Gehenna and Satan and his demons will soon follow.. They obviously do not like what jehovah has to say, so they become victims. They promote the idea of victimhood! Soon 'authorities' will scrutinize JWs for this view because this new victimhood culture is everywhere! Part of post modern philosophy. Everyone wants freedom with NO responsibility. Especially free morals. Jehovah teaches freedom WITH much responsibility. Everything you do - this can impact your neighbor. Adultery, stealing, lying.... So, when you have a more developed conscience- a more refined mature conscience.- you will willingly obey all Jehovahs laws all the time because it not only benefits yourself but also blesses your neighbours. You willingly exercise much self-control to not harm your neighbor because this is how a truly free society functions. Personal freedom with much personal responsibility. This concept was already built into the mosaic law - not to covet...... anything of your neighbor. The person has to inspect themselves regularly to see if they covet anything their neighbour has, be it attention, love, good standing, a material thing.....Here the self-regulation manifests itself. But as we know - there are all those who are still immature, or those who think too much of their abilities. I need not listen to anyone or show self-restraint...... and I do not like you telling me that I will die if I do not have an obedient personality..... that is all hogwash.... you just love to control......... These people have the audacity to even call jehovah a control-freek or a dictator. They will help this world turn against all religion soon.... Those people without any law feel that religion is just a method to control people - they say. Jehovahs government under christ will allow much freedom because each person will be accountable to jehovah. Self-responsibility and self-control (willing obedience) will be crucial. All equal under perfect law driven by love for others. Jehovah will decide when the rebellious get removed if they keep being rebellious.

I sometimes I hope they put us in prison with all other people who refuse to give up Christ - so we can teach them before the end. We may be together like Rahab. So Jehovah can protect us. I know it is wishful thinking... but I do hope this happens. FEMA has built camps for renegades - where they can put you in prison without a lawyer or court case...… When they changed the law to accommodate this - I said … this is for JWs in future!

Anyone who has thought about society knows that peer pressure is everywhere. At work, any club, in groups of friends, gangs - everywhere you go there is some form of peer pressure …to be accepted, even to have the image of being free in a so-called group where everyone follows their own desires, even there, there is is peer pressure - that of appearance of conforming to the image. How did Hitler become so powerful? Radio propaganda and peer pressure. Why did people follow orders ? Peer pressure made them kill others... against their natural instinct. So peer pressure can be a good thing or bad. So when people say peer pressure to conform to good standards is brutal.... then you know what you are dealing with. Several experiments were done in the 1950s due to the Hitler era. They are on Youtube. One experiment was about the amount of pain a person would inflict on others if ordered by authority to do so. Another experiment I recall was also interesting: A group of people were in on the experiment. One candidate was brought in to choose the shortest line among many. Others in the (informed) group all chose the wrong ones and vocally said so... eventually the person went against his own (correct) conviction and chose the wrong answer because most of the others had chosen it... Why I say the governments are so evil now is because of all the secret experiments they have done on crowd control, mind control and social engineering. They are manipulating internet to get people to think how they want you to think. (conspiracy)? There are many historical documentaries online that show how the government used the Nazis (dr. Mengele types - they secretly brought them to America - operation paperclip - and here these Nazis received positions, new names) Their compromised consciences allowed them to further their research on mind control...and many programs were started which were in secret. MKULTRA was one of these programs. These psychological research/brutal experiments ( done in secret) is only now surfacing with the release of old documents. That is why we are now in a time when they will manipulate everyone to do their bidding and only those with very strong faith will survive. I have read about the use of frequencies etc to stimulate certain parts of the brain etc. They will use this in future as well. Jehovah will have to step in. All I know is - this world is totally evil and many vulnerable people were experimented on in USA and Canada without their knowledge (so-called countries with human rights). Some of the things they did to these people are shocking! Better to have a little peer pressure to do the right thing than peer pressure to worship the state. China has got all the technology to do this now and most citizens dare not speak out, even if they do not agree with what is going on. CCP used to hide this from foreigners in their midst but it is totally out in the open now. everyone has to bow to their will. So for those here who have a problem with peer pressure - your own desires to be accepted bring on the peer pressure. If you are a natural rebel, then you will also have a problem because in broader society you will have issues - except with immediate family. Now the state is starting to attack family structure as well. if they break this - you will have no support system. The hunger and food shortages coming (due to extended lock-down) will make people conform even further - to get food.... you may not be able to buy and sell? Let us see first what kind of new economic fedcoin, yuancoin, blockchain coin, or whatever digital system will arise in place of petro-dollar. The bank of international settlements, world bank, IMF etc will come up with something......

How did you know? It did the same here - it told me it is not secure...… trying to see if I obey?...….Not renewed the license? lol I looked it up... The Daniel chapter speaks of the Exactor (Ceasar Augustus when Jesus was born) then the despised one... (Tiberius Caesar reigned when Jesus died. (the old Daniel book spoke of the last strong Roman emperor and Zenobia - this is now out and it makes very good sense because the weeds had already taken over the Christian congregation - Math 19). We then get to the time when the 'messenger' (Russel and his crowd) arrives before the 'wheat' is collected after 1914. The "Babylon the Great" book, if I remember correctly, discussed the 2nd German Reich starting with Bismarck and Wilhelm the second who collected so much weapons and built up Germany very strong after he pushed Bismarck out. I did not know that Wilhelm 2 was forced to abdicate by his admirals and inside governmental officials. They announced his abdication without his permission..... those eating his delicacies. So it was actually already available information....The British empire information has been well covered in the past. Third German Reich - Hitler. Yes things are getting clearer as we pant towards the end.

OK dear, I am done. Jesus put his SOUL in death. That is the crux of the ransom sacrifice. That guarantees our resurrection because Christ was really dead (body, soul, breath - did not exist any longer) and he was resurrected by his father...…the life-giver........that TRUTH very few people on earth understand because churches do not teach this. JWs teach this. That is what brought me to the truth - the fact that Jesus put his soul in death. If you do not get that, understand this fundamental truth, then you never were a good witness in the first place (one that understood everything about the ransom) and impossible to be anointed. You do not even understand the ransom sacrifice properly - so Jehovah can forgive you for all that and even your rebellion. Jews are starting to wake up about the ransom.... Some have discovered Isaiah 53 the last verses.... which uses the word SOUL to indicate that Jesus was prophesied to die. Either you make a decision to study again and get this straight or go on playing the victim in the world out there and teach your disciples falsehoods about Jesus death. If you are not humble enough you will NOT do this and you will have to be accountable for that in front of Jehovah. Yes - the JWs teach the TRUTH about the ransom sacrifice - if you do not understand this..... then I suspect there is a lot more you do not understand. I feel sad for you. YOU will have to put your pride in your pocket and beg Jehovah's forgiveness.

He identified Jesus so they could apprehend him. He became complicit. The bible itself says it was as though he was never born - he is going into oblivion (Gehenna). It also says that Satan went into him when he left to betray Jesus. These are just reminders to you.... you are supposed to know this history.