Arauna

8 hours ago, Witness said:

ngaged in wild partying, fornication and drunkenness away from the eyes

Fornication - if your son had proof of this - he himself was guilty as an accomplice -  because he did not let the elders know.  He knows the principles set out in the bible.... we learn that we should not tolerate wickedness amongst us.  We do not help to cover up a problem, or wrongdoing.  How many times did David not write in the Psalms that he does not sit with the wicked or tolerate their deeds.

So your own thinking is warped as you assisted your son to accuse the elders …….but not to be part of the solution to the problem - to show courage and go to the elders and provide evidence,  ....…...or at least warn them so they could talk to the young man.....about his partying and drinking. 

If your son did not have proof of fornication to take to the elders but did not warn them that the young man is on a  self-indulgent path - he is is as guilty as you...I presume he had some warped guidance from you or have the same attitude as you.   He, like you, expected to get a guilty conviction from elders for behavior they probably were unaware of; they probably had no idea of the extent of the partying.  If there was not enough proof of adultery, your son could still have been part of the solution but instead blamed it on …...….privilege?  Victimhood attitude?  He could have been brave and been part of the solution but no, it is easier to be self-righteously superior and accuse the,,,,, privilege.... Did he expect the elders to have a crystal ball?  Did he expect the elders to follow up on the young man when they did not know that it was a pattern of behavior...  

Elders would have asked the young man if it is true.... maybe even believed his ...excuses...... but the young man would have been warned that he is on their radar.    Your son would have had the satisfaction that he pleased Jehovah - not people.     So if this issue came up again by another person telling the elders about the partying and drinking..... 2 witnesses,,,,that would be enough for elders to get serious about the young man and realize he is hiding something and maybe outright ask him if he has been involved in fornication...…

So your example is not proof of injustice and 'privilege' but proof of a sons cowardice to show integrity to snitch on buddies, which is as destructive as self-righteousness.

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

seem to  think you know my inner thought

Seen enough of your warped accusations and logic. As I said before - you feed off your hate somehow...which is not based on justice.  It is based on raw emotion of hate for everything to do with JWs, GB.  Arguments that show both sides ( and there are people on this forum who are prepared to meet your arguments by validating some things you say, to try to think the way you do, in order to reason with you) these people do not touch your reasoning abilities at all. It is like Ground Hog Day (over and over) same old same old.... talking to you.

There is another person on here - same thing.  Over emotional - no sound biblical reasoning. Just triggered. triggered all the time …,,,, not using the bible  as a sound, logical, healthy disciplining tool (which I am prepared to listen to if arguments are based on reality) but as a self-righteous weapon to accuse, accuse, accuse...…… . It is really like ground hog day talking to you guys.  I have seen such good reasoning here on this forum and have learnt a lot myself.... but with you two - it is like a cul-de-sac - the pits. 

4 hours ago, Witness said:

hat i "don't understand"  is, why l

What part of Jehovah's word do all of you NOT understand?  You profess to be Christians, but hate the word of God which instructs us to not eat or speak to those who are repeat offenders.  Cesar mentioned a few scriptures above.  I can add quite a few more....

So what do you have against these scriptures?  Instead you attack JWs because we OBEY  (not elders) but the WORD of God.  You follow your own desires and hate us because we OBEY..

So - who are the HYPOCRITS?   Those who profess the bible but do not obey its finer details?  ... or JWs who DO obey the finer details?  HMMMMMM...… 

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The shunning article was removed from the website

They may have put  it in writing a few places ……. However, I have never heard elders announce from the platform that someone was "shunned"  they always use the word "disfellowshipped".   That is the official term used.  This includes the meaning that a person can still come to meetings with restrictions if they accept the discipline.

To me this is a lot of nitpicking - because these accusers do NOT accept that the bible says. The bible is clear that we should have nothing to do with a repeat offender or share in his actions. No matter what terms are used for it.....   They therefore blacken the name of JWs  and thus thereby prove they are opposers of Jehovah's written word because this is a clear instruction from Jehovah to protect the congregation members from the "leaven" that can grow in a congregation. 

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

shun and shunning” do not exist in

And these words do NOT  exist in our vocabulary. We use a different word which indicates that the person can still associate but without the privileges they had before.. So what part of this is hypocritical? The fact that you do not like that people do not have ALL the priviledged they had before?

Here you remind me of the parent who does not put the child in time-out as he said he would.  He still loves the child but the child needs consequences for actions taken....... 

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

In this way the perpetrator is still walking free and JWs carry the shame. Perpetrator ....... does he have any consequences for his actions with this legislation! 

Typical, 4Jah did not like this sentence.  He just likes the JWs to carry the blame to fulfill his hate-ocd.  He is not really interested in justice.... the perpetrator can go free and the JWs must 'pay' the penalty...… that is HIS kind of justice... (capitals deliberate).  The typical unreasonable guy I would NOT like to have as a friend.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Anyway, I only went off topic here to show that it's too easy to claim that WTS defense attorneys are constantly being dishonest

Well said. 

I sympathize with all victims but with the latest laws the government has shifted the responsibility of bad legislation onto all the organizations working with children.

The government changed the laws so the victims can go after old cases retroactively now they are adult and can talk and testify better and take the ' organization ' to court.  This means that the government is shifting its responsibility on the organizations who work with children. But many of these organizations have closed.... like boy scouts etc. We are still active.

There are not many JW cases but because it is JW, those who hate us blow up these cases as if we are all child molesters..... when most of us live clean, honest lives and hate these crimes.
They are not going after the perpetrator because they know it is too hard to convict.  They go after the organization - which in most cases did not have the resources ( child psychologists etc) to go after the perpetrator.

We are an organization which tries to create a safe environment for children but we are not a crime fighting organization. This is the job of the police and government. They should take these cases and get a conviction and put the perpetrator behind bars - not retroactively after 20 or 30 years put it on the organization.  

In this way the perpetrator is still walking free and JWs carry the shame. Perpetrator ....... does he have any consequences for his actions with this legislation! 

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

called out Arauna for trying to kill him to

Am I to be disciplined?  Oh no not  4jah - he is going to decapitatate me

9 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Jehovah didn't get a capital letter

Jehovah will forgive the finger slip.... obviously you NOT.  Nitpicking is your forte.

31 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

I notice that the GB get capital letters but GOD

I notice you are getting picky on silly acronyms - where I come from we do not use them but in USA they are popular... so I use them on this forum.   God is only a title..... so do not pick a fight on silly things to get away from being exposed.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

think that your comment have to be a addressed to Mr. David Gnam

You are the one who mentioned that people cannot drink a beer together etc. It is so harsh... well this is why I used the example of a child being put in time-out.  If you are in time-out... take the discipline of Jehovah and start to serve him again. Do not let your pride get the better of you.

16 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

do not look forward to the experience.

Living on top of others is not easy - so no - it will not be nice.... but as you say : live the best you can for Jehovah...

19 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

want to go to drink glass of beer after "siting and singing together in KH"

YOUR words are so twisted  - no logic. You do not see anything wrong with your reasoning?  

You are like a person who tells a child NOT to do something because it is bad....it will hurt his brother and himself......you will put them in time-out... for punishment. Then when the child deliberately does it …… you put him in time-out and he screams as if you are murdering him..... He plays the victim and gets attention by playing the victim.  He is so stubborn he does not calm down and think about what he did...…...so you feel ashamed for the discipline and take him out of time-out …..without the child ever learning that  there are consequences to his dangerous behavior and disobedience. (I have seen kids like this many times in my life - uncontrollable, especially in shops - because they have never had proper consequences for bad behavior). Then when these children turn out to be irresponsible as adults ….. because they are adults now they now become innocent? They have rights to break gods laws?  or do they need Jehovah's discipline if they want to serve him.... Or does Jehovah not discipline those he loves? 

Hebrews 12: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; ⁶  for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.”  ⁷  You need to endure as part of your discipline.God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?" 

Most JWs know there is consequences to a pattern of dangerous spiritual behavior.  They KNOW the consequences but are not prepared to take the time-out.  To humbly attend meetings will get them back on a path to reinstatement but NO their sensitive egos and rights are more important that serving Jehovah. They howl and scream like a stubborn child and publicly call the JWs and GB cruel etc.   Their stubbornness does not bring them favor with Jehovah or teach them respect or obedience to Jehovah's laws.  They apply the laws of Jehovah in the way their own DESIRES dictate.... then they howl in public how bad JWs are.... when we are the ones strictly adhering to the dictates of the very one (Jehovah) they claim to serve.

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Worshipping the GB as usual. you will have such a shock when they fall.  

We expect anything to happen. So we will just go on worshipping jehovah and obeying his laws by self-regulation.

Your world will fall apart.  Because the purpose of your life seems to be to oppose JWs, GB..... so when this purpose is no longer there, the meaning for your life will be gone. Your goal is not to obey god and you do not accept any help to do so in a better way. The GB only faciliteates our faith.

12 hours ago, Anna said:

because of the fear of death because if they didn't do what was right they were going to die. 

That is applicable to any christian religion that follows the bible.... not just JWs.... the bible says you will die if you do not obey jehovah. Adam is in Gehenna and Satan and his demons will soon follow.. They obviously do not like what jehovah has to say, so they become victims.  They promote the idea of victimhood! Soon 'authorities' will scrutinize JWs for this view because this new victimhood culture is everywhere! Part of post modern philosophy. Everyone wants freedom with NO responsibility. Especially free morals.

Jehovah teaches freedom WITH much responsibility.  Everything you do - this can impact your neighbor.   Adultery, stealing, lying.... So, when you have a more developed conscience-  a more refined mature conscience.-  you will willingly obey all Jehovahs laws all the time because it not only benefits yourself but also blesses your neighbours.  You willingly exercise much self-control to not harm your neighbor because this is how a truly free society functions. Personal freedom with much personal responsibility. 

This concept was already built into the mosaic law - not to covet...... anything of your neighbor.  The person has to inspect themselves regularly to see if they covet anything their neighbour has, be it attention, love, good standing, a material thing.....Here the self-regulation manifests itself. 

But as we know - there are all those who are still immature, or those who think too much of their abilities.  I need not listen to anyone or show self-restraint...... and I do not like you telling me that I will die if I do not have an obedient personality..... that is all hogwash.... you just love to control......... These people have the audacity to even call jehovah a control-freek or a dictator.   They will help this world turn against all religion soon.... Those people without any law feel that religion is just a method to control people - they say. 

Jehovahs government under christ will allow much freedom because each person will be accountable to jehovah. Self-responsibility and self-control (willing obedience) will be crucial. All equal under perfect law driven by love for others. Jehovah will decide when the rebellious  get removed if they keep being rebellious. 

I sometimes I hope they put us in prison with all other people who refuse to give up Christ - so we can teach them before the end.  We may be together like Rahab.  So Jehovah can protect us.  I know it is wishful thinking... but I do hope this happens.

FEMA has built camps for renegades - where they can put you in prison without a lawyer or court case...… When they changed the law to accommodate this - I said … this is for JWs in future!

5 hours ago, Witness said:

peer pressure are brutal

Anyone who has thought about society knows that peer pressure is everywhere. At work, any club, in groups of friends, gangs - everywhere you go there is some form of peer pressure …to be accepted, even to have the image of being free in a so-called group where everyone follows their own desires, even there, there is is peer pressure - that of appearance of conforming to the image. 

How did Hitler become so powerful?  Radio propaganda and peer pressure.  Why did people follow orders ?  Peer pressure made them kill others... against their natural instinct.  So peer pressure can be a good thing or bad.  So when people say peer pressure to conform to good standards is brutal.... then you know what you are dealing with. 

Several experiments were done in the 1950s due to the Hitler era.  They are on Youtube. One experiment was about the amount of pain a person would inflict on others if ordered by authority to do so. Another experiment I recall was also interesting:  A group of people were in on the experiment. One candidate was brought in to choose the shortest line among many.  Others in the (informed) group all chose the wrong ones and vocally said so... eventually the person went against his own (correct) conviction and chose the wrong answer because most of the others had chosen it...

Why I say the governments are so evil now is because of all the secret experiments they have done on crowd control, mind control and social engineering.  They are manipulating internet to get people to think how they want you to think.  (conspiracy)? 

There are many historical documentaries online that show how the government used the Nazis (dr. Mengele types - they secretly brought them to America - operation paperclip - and here these Nazis received positions, new names) Their compromised consciences allowed them to further their research on mind control...and many programs were started which were in secret. MKULTRA was one of these programs.  These psychological research/brutal experiments ( done in secret) is only now surfacing with the release of old documents. 

That is why we are now in a time when they will manipulate everyone to do their bidding and only those with very strong faith will survive.  I have read about the use of frequencies etc to stimulate certain parts of the brain etc. They will use this in future as well.  Jehovah will have to step in.  All I know is - this world is totally evil and many vulnerable people were experimented on in USA and Canada without their knowledge  (so-called countries with human rights).  Some of the things they did to these people are shocking!

Better to have a little peer pressure to do the right thing than peer pressure to worship the state.  China has got all the technology to do this now and most citizens dare not speak out, even if they do not agree with what is going on.  CCP  used to hide this from foreigners in their midst but it is totally out in the open now.  everyone has to bow to their will.

So for those here who have a problem with peer pressure - your own desires to be accepted bring on the peer pressure. If you are a natural rebel, then you will also have a problem because in broader society you will have issues - except with immediate family.  Now the state is starting to attack family structure as well.  if they break this - you will have no support system.

The hunger and food shortages coming (due to extended lock-down) will make people conform even further - to get food.... you may not be able to buy and sell?  Let us see first what kind of new economic fedcoin, yuancoin, blockchain coin, or whatever digital system will arise in place of petro-dollar. The bank of international settlements, world bank, IMF etc will come up with something......

19 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

she’s sort of lazy

How did you know?

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Google are telling me this forum is 'Not Secure'

It did the same here - it told me it is not secure...…   trying to see if I obey?...….Not renewed the license?  lol

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“Stay Loyal With Queen Zenobia a

I looked it up... The Daniel chapter speaks of the Exactor (Ceasar Augustus when Jesus was born) then the despised one... (Tiberius Caesar reigned when Jesus died.  (the old Daniel book spoke of the last strong Roman emperor and Zenobia - this is now out and it makes very good sense because the weeds had already taken over the Christian congregation - Math 19).  We then get to the time when the 'messenger' (Russel and his crowd) arrives before the 'wheat' is collected after 1914. 

The "Babylon the Great" book, if I remember correctly, discussed the 2nd German Reich starting with Bismarck and Wilhelm the second who collected so much weapons and built up Germany very strong after he pushed Bismarck out. I did not know that Wilhelm 2 was forced to abdicate by his admirals and inside governmental officials.  They announced his abdication without his permission..... those eating his delicacies. So it was actually already available information....The British empire information has been well covered in the past.

Third German Reich - Hitler.

Yes things are getting clearer as we pant towards the end.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

I was not lacking in religion before I became a JW.  I was well aware of why Jesus came to earth

OK dear, I am done.  Jesus put his SOUL in death.  That is the crux of the ransom sacrifice.  That guarantees our resurrection because Christ was really dead (body, soul, breath - did not exist any longer) and he was resurrected by his father...…the life-giver........that TRUTH very few people on earth understand because churches do not teach this. JWs teach this. That is what brought me to the truth - the fact that Jesus put his soul in death.  If you do not get that, understand this fundamental truth, then you never were a good witness in the first place (one that understood everything about the ransom) and impossible to be anointed.  You do  not even understand the ransom sacrifice properly - so Jehovah can forgive you for all that and even your rebellion.  Jews are starting to wake up about the ransom.... Some have discovered Isaiah 53 the last verses.... which uses the word SOUL to indicate that Jesus was prophesied to die.

Either you make a decision to study again and get this straight or go on playing the victim in the world out there and teach your disciples falsehoods about Jesus death. If you are not humble enough you will NOT do this and you will have to be accountable for that in front of Jehovah.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

"that taught you the truth about the ransom sacrifice and god's name" 

Yes - the JWs teach the TRUTH about the ransom sacrifice  - if you do not understand this..... then I suspect there is a lot more you do not understand.  I feel sad for you.  YOU will have to put your pride in your pocket and beg Jehovah's forgiveness. 

On 7/11/2020 at 10:59 PM, 4Jah2me said:

you think Judas killed Jesus

He identified Jesus so they could apprehend him. He became complicit.

On 7/11/2020 at 10:59 PM, 4Jah2me said:

Have you judged Judas a murderer

The bible itself says it was as though he was never born - he is going into oblivion (Gehenna).  It also says that Satan went into him when he left to betray Jesus. These are just reminders to you.... you are supposed to know this history.

20 hours ago, Witness said:

You must play golf, since I've heard this example from you before.

It is a good example though..... I was making a point

6 hours ago, Witness said:

"apostasy" is viewed as the worst of the worst

Is that not viewed as such in the bible?  But that does not make you rethink your situation?  I feel for you but you are doing it to yourself by your stubborn attitude.  Instead you prefer to always rale against the organization that taught you the truth about the ransom sacrifice and god's name.  Without them you would not have been in the privileged position you were in.  But like an unthankful dog you still bite the hand that fed you.  Think what you are doing to yourself. You seem to be all over the place! All it take is a little humility!  There were anointed in first century that were shunned and came back!

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Do you not know that the GB refuse to apologise to the victim

I am sure if they saw these persons in private they would definitely apologize (even though they personally were not the perpetrators)…… but you obviously do not understand the implications of legally apologizing..... that is totally a different matter. 

We JWs do NOT condone pedophilia ….or any form of porneia…... so why should we apologize in court or public for something we as an organization we do not condone?  The organization has sinning individuals in it and in this world the entire system is imperfect - and to top this off one cannot expect 100% perfect way of dealing with every case.  Expecting this would expect perfection, perfect judgment and seeing into everyone's heart!  Ask your self - how would I have done if I had to judge this matter.  Bring me any organization that has dealt with pedophilia perfectly a 100 percent of the time!  Legal organizations cannot even do it - and they have child psychologists top advisors - the lot!  This is why the Australian government had the inquiry in the first place because there were gaps in the laws they needed to close up!  

I think I know more than most about the Jews, the Muslims and some other religious denominations where pedophilia and child suffering is much worse than people can ever dream it to be...… but yet these ignorant people do not expect perfect case handling from them - if a case ever comes to the fore.... lol - because people are too afraid of the religious leaders.  This is like expecting a fools dream in the real world. But they expect 100% perfect case handling from JWs.  

Pedophilia is everywhere  is very prevalent an even covered up in courts of law (Epstein, gangs in UK). There is a case that went on for several years in Brooklyn USA in the ultra orthodox Jewish community. A Jewish school teacher fled to Israel (the school paid her flight because her husband was a Rabbi) and because she was prominent the accusers could not get her extradited for several years from Israel - the government and Rabbis covered it up in Israel.....   Nothing much in newspapers.  Not to speak of UK where the court system covers up big-time.  So why should we apologize for not handling every case that comes up with perfection..? When courts themselves find it hard to find enough evidence to convict?   DO you live under a rock or something when you expect 100 percent people in JWs to never have a secret sinner? …. And when we do get enough proof and shun a sinner then then you are the first guys to criticize this? Where is the sympathy for the shunned person you say?   This kind of double speak or double tongue is often found in those who do not understand both sides of this issue. 

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Yes the internet makes all this TRUTH available to everyone

Yes - those are the very ones who have been disciplined by JW and turned to defaming.... but they do not tell the public that they were sinning or in which capacity.... 

One question:  when are you going to get ready for the end?  You think a world-wide lockdown is important? … similar to Jerusalem when the Romans came and surrounded the city the first time, you do not think it is significant at all?  Putin himself is now president for life... and what did he do this week?  started putting journalists in jail.  He has a port in Syria now and now he is expanding into Africa working with Libya - to get access to the port.   So what must all happen for you to realize the world is a little deeper in the cesspit than we realize.

13 hours ago, Witness said:

comparing the rules of a club to our

It is a similar situation - where one must adhere to rules.  Unfortunately at secular clubs one usually just gets the rules typed out.  In Jehovah's organization you know what the rules are when you become a JW - there is no excuse.  Even after a mistake one is not shunned unless you show rebelliousness.  

I am a reader of history - I know what Catholic excommunication means....  how can you even compare what is written there to what we do.... like comparing and orange with mars.

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

but I don’t think it’s something that should be crucial

It is not what you think that is important but what Jehovah thinks about idolatry.....  he is a jealous god and does not tolerate paraphernalia of other gods pushed in his face. Do you not read the old testament?  And it was one of the instructions at acts 15:29 which Christians also have to adhere to..... that and abstinence from blood. 

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

nullified all his past works.

A very true statement.  How sad to serve so long and in the end to be found wanting.  It can happen to any of us - we can lose our life when we stop to do introspection and look for flaws only outside yourself.

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

more than popularly elected swaggering bullies popularly who often didn’t know much of anything other than what they wanted.

I think that is why there is so much injustice in many places. The court system is broken.  I marvel at some of the decisions taken these days. 

10 hours ago, Witness said:

Jehovah's Witnesses don't use the word, shun or shunning, they refer to it as disfellowshipped, disfellowshipping...."

I think we can refer to it in a modern word of our choice, which serves the purpose, as it embodies what the BIBLE tells us to do with rebellious people. We cannot use an old Greek word...... If you belong to a club you have to follow the rules of the club or you are shunned/disfellowshipped/ told not to come back.  Just try it ...and behave badly at a golf club and see what happens to you.  As video shows - disfellowshipped means spiritual contact lost and one can be re-instated.

This very idea was tried in court a while back was it not? When a gay couple took a baker to court for refusing to bake their wedding cake.  The baker was shunning them was he not?  he did not even want to take their money.  You see, legally we are on shaky ground here.  When these kind of people start winning court cases then they can come for all religion... force you to accept LGBTQ and what else?  And this is what our dear friend MR 4JAH does not understand... He is so blinded by being right (or finding fault)  that he does not get the subtle nuances of these things. The autonomous decisions of different religions is being eroded...…(JWs included) .. in a big way at present.  So when he gleefully publishes these clips..... I just shake my head.

We know the system is coming for ALL religion soon and the world is heating up to it.  Satan is busy getting ready to create a counterfeit world government to bring peace and security to the earth.....and Satan's moral rules will be forced onto all of us such as LGBTQ, pedophilia may be included, no rights to shun, no male elders (according to them it is a white supremacist, colonizer, patriarchal idea which comes from the patriarchal bible which has been the oppressor of humankind for a long time), vaccinations and blood forced on you...…...and replaced by atheism and the immorality and free sex and free whatever now already taught in most schools. 

(By the way I am not antivaccine but I read this morning how they are making it and I believe it has potential to harm DNA in the body - trials started in UK, brazil and South Africa and Oxford university is doing it -  big money can come from it).  Just like before the flood there is a horrible arrogance and a changing of human DNA.  They are messing with things they should be leaving alone.)

10 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I totally disagree. It is just as easy to do both. Some of you JWs do have strange ideas about life. 

Depends on your inclination and the subject.  Here on this forum you hold up well because there is only one view spewed by you.. a destructive one.  I think I can make a good case for NOT watching videos against JWs.  You are a good example of it ...... your hate-…... seems to be fueled by watching all these videos against JWs which are spinned and propagandized in a certain way.

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

She says they cannot hold their own against some on here. 

Just remember : it is much easier to critisize than to build up, easier to destroy than to show love.  When you are ready to destroy, one can use just about use anything as a weapon and you can hold your own because it is easier to break than unify.   Try it on your wife and you will see I am speaking truth.  

4 hours ago, Anna said:

proof they have God's backing"

I have a quote of anna above but I direct it to a few of the 'spiritual elite' over on this forum. 

I just marvel at you guys - you have lived in or like to be living in a literary world, or scholarly world  (or must I rather call it a critical thinking bubble), where every word is literally dissected.  A normal regular guy will not be able to come on this forum and chat with you because you guys will destroy his every word.....for real.  He cannot say what he thinks in the best words for him without an over-reaction.  I find it a pity that your thinking is so one-sided or should I call it self-centered?  (I think Furuli became the same....his scholarly habits caught up with him when he retired and he could only think of all the things he needed to critically analize.....  and then wrote his final dissertation .... pity.  He did not see the good things any longer or the mitigating things). He made his own puffed-up trap.

The reality in the world is:- it consists of mostly people who are plain, common people.  Yet, you do not make any excuses for people who have never learnt to put their thinking on paper.  There are many people out there who have never done this or looked at their writing self-critically.  They plainly say what they think or feel.  Once they have been shamed by a bunch of puffer upper poisonous fish... they run away or be silenced and you will not hear from them again.

Just remember, their experience in the world out there was totally different to yours. This does not mean that they can be dismissed or their ideas are de-legitimized and cannot be explored by a question... why do you say this..... etc.. The attitude here is that when you come here you must be able to converse with the real mature men! … 

Is it possible that you can broaden out your thinking?   I stand up for the common man..... please think of your actions or what you are doing. That was a brother!!!!!!  I have luckily been in both worlds.... and to tell you the truth, I prefer people like him... they say what they think…in the passionate words they know...... without first looking up the words on Google or looking it up in some historical book... or looking it up …or critical thinking or political correct or ….. well... I have said my say.

Think outside your box.

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

we have to follow governmental direction. And what  is the point of your illustration?

For your information - the GB closed our meetings BEFORE government regulation. So GB had caution and respect for life and most assuredly prayed to Jehovah for direction.  

11 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Grow up Tom and get real.  

Tom, most probably like me, does not humor modern-day Judas'..... He can see the difference between those who sincerely make mistakes, or are imperfect, and who sincerely are looking for answers...... and those who have made a conscious choice to oppose anything to do with GB, JWs - regardless of mitigating reasons or not.  He does not need me to stand up for him... he will just ignore you...… but I am quite sure he has matured up.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

carryovers from a favorite verb construction

I am not a Hebrew scholar - but it is very closely related to Arabic..... and Arabic has causative verbs..... so I have no issue with Franz' translation of the causative verbs into English.  " to prove to be".   In Arabic it is understood that you already exist, therefore  (to be) is built into all its verbs. That is why 'I AM' is not the correct translation - because Jehovah would reveal himself as one who "causes to become" in Egypt with causing plagues and miracles.

I think the organization changed the verbs in the revised edition to simplify it.... because that was the purpose of the revised translation.