Arauna

No contradiction if you accept that the generation is about the SIGNS that started after the crowning of Jesus. .... but I guess you have not thought about it and hence will not get your head around it. The civil war definitely still affected people as late as 19 sixties..... just as WW2 signs are still affecting me........ There are some people still alive which were born during WW1........so the staggered approach is not as luny as you pretend it to be with sarcasm. You do not believe in any of the signs and the generation - be honest...... so why would you think further? I suggest you can start quoting all JWs history to prove how incompetent they are........ then you will fulfill your Christian duty to bring the absolute truth to the friends here who love your quotes which is supposed to prove a superior insight. Because after all you have so much inside knowledge!

I don't have right, correct..... but I never made the assumption...... you did because you are stuck on a date and not the generation.....the SIGNS that Jesus gave to this generation.... But I understand your thinking because you do not believe in the SIGNS and assume we will not be able to discern the time (not the day but the times we are living in) and neither do you accept 1914.

The point is NOT the date 1914 itself - although the kingdom was established then. It is the generation that would be influenced by the events triggered by the birth of the kingdom when satan was thrown out of heaven and brought the signs of perousia to the earth. This would include WW1 and WW2. I am of the post WW2 generation....... my generation was effected by the WW2. If I were anointed while brothers were still alive which saw WW1 then I am still part of that generation - seeing the events triggered by jesus on the throne (perousia). I am aging but still kicking...... I am still part of that generation which is doing world-wide preaching work and seeing the FDS in action, apart from all the other signs. ...... as mentioned by Jesus..... signs that this generation will see.

Agreed. One can view yourself as a scholar of the 'past' and study every non-perfect word uttered by GB or their imperfect choices, then inadvertantly play into the hands of those who hate JWs for very silly reasons....... all this in the search for the absolute truth of the past...... something which a human cannot do...... this is Jehovah's domain. These brothers at the time, seemed to reason without 'soundness of mind' ..... without seeing Jehovahs vision for the future - large expansion. One needs some form of structure to provide 'food' and distribute it to all the brethren in the world to keep all on the same page.....Jehovah knew this and he provided a slave which is easily recognizable today. I value these principles extremely highly - not to overstep my boundaries and dominate others in any way. This problem of domination over others (even in slight ways) has plagued mankind in all spheres of life since Adam sinned. We are constantly reminded by GB to not do this BUT individuals do overstep the mark due to imperfection........ no matter how spiritual they are. However, this does not imply that we must be disorganised as a people and not have a central organization, especially if the central organization is committed to these godly principles.... To have a coordinated world-wide nation ..... implies some order and organization of thought to create a unity of mind and action....... especially to fulfill the preaching 'and teaching' commission. Each one cannot teach their own interpretation. Thank you for the outlay of these scriptures....... Maybe dementia? ....... Did not take advice from other brothers, acted alone and egotistically? Very sad...... for a book that does not seem so good........(I do not intend to read it.... but I listen intently to the comments about it here on the forum. ) They were heavily influenced by Greek oratory tradition....... the Mishna was already part of oral tradition, although not yet written down.. Few of Sanhedrin were levites. Were the Levites not appointed by jehovah under Law to do the teaching and judging? But they no longer followed the law - as brought out by Jesus. The Sanhedrin it seems were appointed for life. Annas was already retired (if I remember correctly appointed by Roman official) but carried the title of lifelong appointee. So he was brought back into the trial of Jesus to give more credence to the descisions. Caiaphas was high priest (married to daughter of Annas) and appointed by Herod. Here is an excerpt found on JW.org: "The Sanhedrin had 71 members—the high priest and 70 of the nation’s principal men. In Roman times it was made up of priestly nobles (mainly Sadducees), lay aristocrats, and learned scribes of the party of the Pharisees. The priestly aristocracy, supported by distinguished laymen, dominated the court. Whereas the Sadducees were conservative, the Pharisees were liberal and were chiefly commoners who had great influence with the people. According to the historian Josephus, the Pharisees’ demands were reluctantly met by the Sadducees. Paul took advantage of their rivalry and the differences in belief between these groups when he defended himself before the Sanhedrin." The Sanhedrin became an established political body from the time of Antiochus IV. Although the decapolis cities had many gymnasiums etc and the culture became more and more hellenistic (koine Greek the language) the Hasmodeans violently resisted Antiochus's idea to replace their God with Zeus in the temple and revolt and resistance against pagan authorities started the extremist downward spiral which eventually led to destruction of Jerusalem.

How silly to reason this way. No other Christian religion understands the ransom sacrifice which is the CRUX for everlasting life. If you believe in an immortal soul - then Jesus dit not really die and did not really pay for our sins. Jesus only received immortality as a 'reward' for his faithfulness........... so it is silly to reject the importance of this CORE teaching of JWs........ just to name one teaching. So to judge GB on some historical old and little thing you personally take issue with, is not wise ......when the CORE teachings are absolutely correct and are crucial to get absolutely right for everlasting life.... Apparently you think you can cherry pick core teachings? And reject gods organization on something which you perceive/judge to be a minor misdemeanour?

That is where you are wrong. I study much world history and philosophy and I also know the JW history. I do not need to be a scholar of what every witness said 100 years ago to understand that jehovah is using this organization, flaws and all. If the Organization wants to highlight a point it is ok with me but I find the current fulfillment of teaching and preaching and fulfillment of current events in prophecy much more edifying and strengthening. I compare our core teachings to what the world has to offer and see nothing better.....anywhere.... on top of the fulfillment of bible prophecy of the world-wide preaching work and giving timely and strengthening spiritual food to the world. That is why you guys are stuck on the past - to try to dig up dirt. You are like an old nagging woman - emotional and continually accusing her husband over and over again of something he did 60 years ago.

That is why you study for two or three years. You can investigate the organization's links and. .... but why go and get familiar with Russels opinion and Rutherfords opinion when their opinions no longer count in the organization? They are dead and we have moved on from their teachings. It is only opposers that go and dig up old stuff to try and say we do not have the truth while they ignore all the core teachings that are absolutely correct. Bring me another organization that teaches Jehovahs name, teaches the mortality of the soul, that jesus is not God, understand that the kingdom is a government, does not get involved with politics and does not vote or riot, preaches the kingdom world-wide etc.etc. ....... please go on and tell me if there is another organization out there ........

I studied worldly history myself to see where pagan traditions come from. However, I need not go and read how Russel felt about it or even what Rutherford said about it. It is a historical fact - it was then and it is now. And our current books explain it quite well. You are trying to compare slippers with pumpkins.

This generation jehovah could not work with due to lack of faith. They were spiritually too weak to fight the wars to take the land... only Joshua and Caleb showed faith. So this generation had one quality in common...... lack of faith. It was a "staggered generation....... some were 500 years old, some 200, some 30.....Noah's parents who were older than Noah, aunts uncles and cousins too. But all these people did come to an end in ONE event......... These were all part of the pre-flood generation. But persons lived THROUGH the flood. So they were still part of the pre-flood generation....... A specific sign given..... agreed. OUR SIGN IS THE WORLD-WIDE PREACHING WORK AND THE SLAVE!

Interesting point - worthy to think about.

Since we are Bible students and have a PERSONAL relationship with Jehovah and keep improving our BIBLE knowledge, I fail to see why we need to know the entire history and every detail of the watchtower history. I look at the bible and see some kind of central body in the first century. Then I look at the changed circumstances of our day, such as a world-wide responsibility, together with new technology such as internet and video etc. I immediately understand we need a legal corporation etc to manage a unified approach to the nation of God. I.e they delegate the videos to certain branch offices but have final oversight over content to ensure ONE message. What I am interested in, is NOW! The core truths that we are teaching now! And the willingness of people to contemplate the new changes. I do not need any person to tell me...... "BUT in a watchtower in 1967."...... bla bla bla. Russel said : bla bla. Intelligence or education is not needed to understand the deep things of God......... jehovahs spirit is needed. I do not admire scholars at all because it puffs up. And secular scholars are often bought and paid for. I have lived in Africa where I saw true humility and poverty..... so I know what the real thing looks like . Some people have an "acquired humility". I actually feel sorry for the professor Feruli- to have served jehovah so long and faithfully and now in old age succumb to the plague of mankind........ the same quality which Satan displayed. We can all fall and become a victim. I doubt he took any advice from a brother before publishing it. He wanted the world to notice him...... unfortunately.

As I said - they took the first simplified explanation..... of 70 or 80 years. However, Noah's generation was 120 years. And a staggered generation can - as illustrated - be many more years..... even up to 180..... if one looks at the reality on the ground. To outright dismiss this indicates a bias and unacceptance that staggered generations even exist- which I would say is illogical and unscientific..... and unyielding to even contemplate it - which is NOT a mature Christian quality because we are to "ponder over things and make our advancement".

You show defeat when it comes to thinking things through much too quickly. I do not search through old material for someone else to tell me what to think. As you said: be reasonable and then I add this to the mix: also look at the reality. When reasonableness is followed through with reality then one sees that a linear timeline for a generation was made much too simple at first. A staggered timeline is the reality on the ground. I put in a wrong date above. To illustrate Russel's generation. The elderly who lived in his time ..... they could have been born any time from 1800...... to be able to read his literature and be influenced by him in 1870. However, all those who had contact with his literature during his lifetime and even those born before his death still live in the times that are influenced by the same events....... such as Darwinism, industrial revolution, love of Egypt and artifacts, Mormonism, the trek from the east to California, and even WW1 AND Watchtower publications and lectures. So anyone born up to 1904 would read about the same things in the press and be part of Russel's generation - be influenced by the events. These people born in 1904 would live through both wars until.........1980 or later. So a generation is in reality not just one lifetime but a group of lifetimes. So look at the first date of 1800 to 1980 or little later - this is Russel's generation...... and he was born in 1852. A staggered generation. So those who experienced and were born just before 1914 or WW2 and even after WW2 (as the generation who saw these signs and were influenced by it) are getting older.... but they are still around. I recognise the signs without being anointed and have heard many stories from my grandfather and father who were in WW2 in Africa, Italy, Korea and Japan. These things are etched in my memory and I lived in the era influenced by these wars....... entire structure of societies changed - especially the 60s in aftermath of WW2. The millenials are still influenced by what happened but do not care to read about this any longer - they love the new trend of technology and cyborgs..... So the generation who saw these signs are definitely getting older. But many signs are still here: the lockdown, epidemics, fires, floods, tsunamis, volcanos and we are getting so used to murder and conflict (al Shabaab, Syria, Israel versus Iran, Turkey, China, Russia...... that no-one bats an eyelid any longer. Before the flood the violence was mega but it seems people took no note. Same now. So the answer is: to think about things. Something the GB is always telling us to do. They can spoon feed us up to a point but we have to grow mature ourselves. We ourselves are responsible for learning to ponder. Staggered or overlapping generations is not absurd at all - it was built in from the start but the GB oversimplified at first. ..... that is all. Some would like like to say the GB were wrong..... I say.... wait and see. We are close to the new world order that has satan's influence behind it. Things are going to change so rapidly now. 40 million without work in USA alone and some know they will never get their jobs back...... with the smallest spark they will riot- especially when their bellies are empty. Government is working (right and left working together) to get more police on streets and maybe the military. Things are getting serious and people are still complacent about the generation........ lol.

My dear, there is none as blind as those who have their eyes wide shut. I usually try to work with those who have something redeemable about them because they can say something I can agree with or learn from when I do not agree. You have only one message and it is the same old, same old.... and if I call you out you get personal...... so do not even bother to call me something else because you revert back to same MO....... At least the hate-OCD is consistent...... gotta give you credit for that!.

Same old judgmental attitude......No, those who ' willingly' change by personal choice and are sincere in their brotherly love learn to put up with imperfect brothers BUT those who change because they are told t, those are the ones who become rebellious and become hate-mongers.....and call others dictators. They never followed jehovah from free will in the first place.

Wisdom speaking. If one has not made peace with the world and learnt to be forgiving and kind after 60 years........ your life has been wasted...... you have not learnt anything. The actors may be playing a role but the play is reality...... sad....... that people are wearing masks and hats and do not realize it.

Sorry if I come across that way. I am the least bitter person you can ever meet. Sweet, friendly and open... no bitterness. Almost childlike but with a keen eye for observation. Nothing misses my eye when it comes to observation....because I care about people. The fundamental teachings have been the same with minor adjustments...... so this is not a true statement. You look only to the few changes and not the entire Body - which is the same. Agree. In the beginning they control these emotions but a relapse can come. After many years it is easier. Some peoples weaknesses are more pronounced where others can be hidden by good manners....... but all of us are very flawed....we all need Jehovahs mercy very much and should give more mercy to each other. But sometimes we deal with our own baggage and do not know how to deal with other peoples baggage.... this is just reality. But we should widen out and try.....

False assumption. I knew a man who had a similar personality than JT. He was a difficult man to understand and had a problem to fit in with other JWs because of his personality. It was due to growing up in an orphanage all his life. His wife's faithfulness helped the children to remain faithful. (They came in the truth together). He had left the truth for several years because he was witty like JT but with a quirky element of black acidity in it. Most people fled because they could not handle it - not because they did not care. Age did not soften his personality...... but he was in truth a good man. He provided well for his family and would eagerly help strangers. He would laugh easy but always had a look about him as though he was a suspicious predatory cat which did not trust his surroundings. Whatever happened to him as a child formed a lasting disability - which was unseen to the eye. He therefore needed much more love from us all ..... but most of us had our own baggage and issues- not enough love to give someone like him some peace and heal the damage. Only jehovah can do this. This person came back into the congregation before he died. He had never broken any biblical laws except that he was a hard man to understand.

There you go again... back to the old behaviour. Just can't help yourself heh? We were talking about JT . I agree with Tom. He found himself being loved by you hate- mongerers way too much and realized he has to do a personal re-evaluation. I sincerely hope he is doing well. .......

Well put.

Depends how critical and judgmental you are of the people. (A cultural fault, I found amongst many of the British). If a group of people have all the core teachings absolutely correct, then you should be happy to serve with them because one serves jehovah - not people. But if you only focus on the imperfect people - then no community of believers will ever be good enough for your self-righteous soul. You will miss out on the many blessings you could have had.

Only if the iron wants to be sharpened - therein lies the rub! Only associations, which are based on a sincere search for a better understanding or even love, can sharpen wisdom.

I sometimes wonder too! But my hope is that I could change a 1% perspective of someone. I do not have the same culture as most people on this forum.... so I often see things differently..... and sometimes it has served me well. I have however, thought many things through, pondered over bible teachings, the GB, the slave, and I like philosophy and history.... which influences my opinions. It has helped me to realize that I appreciate Jehovahs organization - no matter how flawed. It is easy to judge when not in the GB 's shoes. Many here may be smarter than me, and I pick up their arrogance in their replies. While I sometimes come across as "blind believer" in the GB and slave - it is definitely not the case. I have made a choice because of understanding and hopefully some wisdom. I do however judge with mercy. Is this not what is required? Justice and mercy? An unbiased perspective at all times? I am not here to quote umpteen scriptures and preach to others. Most here love God I am sure.... but I find that some are too critical of others and have too little of Christ 101 spirit to quote a friend on here. Some I outright call hate-mongers. But all people are worth our time - while there is still time. Their own attitudes may close the door for them. In south Africa I preached to white supremacists. These people's own attitudes closed the door for them - not me. When I mentioned that God approves all people - they were not prepared to listen. Similarly on here...... peoples own attitudes could be detrimental to approval by jehovah.

No matter how he did it - he would be criticized. I guess they try to live normal lives and try to side-step the severe scrutiny. Jesus was called a glutton and other names.

Not the same sense of humor..... unless you have multiple personality..... lol