Arauna

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

else can you otherwise read about what will happen to today's governments?

The beast has seven heads. The seventh head is the Anglo American world power. It will still exist when the end comes.

The eighth king is NOT part of the seven headed beast - so it does not rule in a similar way as previous world powers.  It is a scarlet ' image'  of the seven headed beast ...... so it is a reflection or a mirror of it. 

This is the UN because it was, (existed), then went down as the League of nations and came up again as the new UN organization in 1945.  It is a disgusting thing to jehovah because it will aim to bring peace and security (world cooperation) through its machinations but is not authorised by jehovah. It is part of the wicked corrupt system under satan.  This beast referred to here is the scarlet coloured beast which the harlot is riding....

 Revelation 20: "  11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. 12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast.  13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.  14 These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.” 

Many people do not realize that UN policies (Agenda 21, Agenda 2030 and UN Migration compact 2018) for "sustainable development" is now the policies which are driving all sustainable development and NGO activities in all western countries. 176 countries signed up to these goals and it is driving events into a push to control all world activities. In effect it is already ruling behind the scenes and will soon take a more prominent role in world policies to bring about more cooperation for sustainable development of the earth.  (Bring back wilderness areas and put people in high rise buildings in order to save the planet (their idea of restoring a paradise ) where humans will be collectively secondary to the environment and have an enforced peace and security..

10 kings will willingly give their authority to this scarlet  coloured beast (UN).

I believe that the world economy will soon be digitized for better control and surveillance. World banks linked to the UN will direct fiscal policy and call for better cooperation and peace. The UN will try to create one United federal umbrella organization  (10 kings will willingly give it its power) and regulate activities on earth to bring about security and peace. To do this they will have to get willing cooperation from all humans whatever their religion.  They will dictate all social values... (social engineering including LGBT values). 

The major religions will soon be riding the UN (scarlet coloured beast)...... by signing their contract in October 2020 (it was postponed from may 2020 due to Corona). It will declare unity of christendom, Judaism and Islam under one God. They  will be taking the lead on behalf of the UN -   (ride the scarlet beast) and  declare  all serve the same God......... no mention of Jesus and his ransom.

Once they have created reasonable unity the UN (maybe together with religion) will call out peace and security.......... we know it is a lie because the UN employs incompetent activists who love the model of China (totalitarian government with the st ate as religion) and covers all its mistakes. The UN  has little fiscal transparency.   Its whistle blowers are fired and discredited.

Last year the WHO (UN) spent more than 200 million on air travel - more than its budget for HIV.  The head of WHO is responsible for the disappearance  of 2 million people in Ethiopia but was not held to account by Human Rights council (another corrupt organization of the UN run by countries with no human rights).

Please look up on Google  the opinion piece in Washington times: "The UN is coming for your religion. "

The UN will enforce their social values in the west similar to what China has done in its social credit system. Once the UN has done this it will turn against religion which helped   to create this climate of cooperation. 

From there the weak financial system will fall and Jesus and his heavenly armies will remove all human governments.

I do not say this will happen in this exact sequence..... but at present (with international contracts already in place....and religious activities on large scale) - it seems to be falling in place.  ...... things can escalate suddenly.  Corona virus is weakening economies everywhere and supply chain disruptions can bring food shortages. So vulnerable nations may be willing to set aside differences and work together with UN goals and guidance.

Once the "disgusting " thing is in place it is just a matter of time.......

On 3/23/2020 at 5:28 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

subordinate = having less power or a lower position than someone else in

Did you not read that we all (men and women) should willingly subject ourselves to each other  and think more of others than ourselves?  Be self-sacrificing....

It is not about hierarchy at all but about a humble spirit.  All of us must must learn this - some take longer than others.

On 3/23/2020 at 8:26 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

landscape every 2-1/2 years, over and over and over ...and burying my grandparents, and then parents, and possibly some children in the desert sands,  I would have seriously considered taking my family and heading North.

....especially if I understood that once we reached the promised land, my sons would have to fight and probably die to seize it from the people already there.

....just sayin' .

.... and then, in the quiet of the night, I wonder why all the lands around Israel have abundant oil .... except Israel.

My husband and I were discussing the other day how blessed we are. We have a roof over our heads and food, clothing. What more do we need? There is really nothing more we want from jehovah except to pray for those we love and fulfillment of his promises. 

The problem with Israel was their selfish desires.  They had free food, the protection of God, water provided miraculously, a cloud leading them, their clothes not wearing out and much more.  They had more than enough time to rejoice in jehovah, strengthen their faith and give their children all the attention they needed. But they always wanted more...... and did not grow in trust of jehovah....... no wonder they had to live in the desert until this generation had died out....

They had the Egyptian ways, distrust and desires which kept them from being content.....the want of more, more,  maybe more self fulfillment....... this can be a serious  trap.   Ambition and self fulfilment are traps. 

Moses was forced to look after sheep for 40 years.  He lost all 'prospects' for himself. No ambition, no position in the world....... even his education in the Egyptian palace seemed wasted. ..... but he learnt just to be calm of heart and walk with jehovah today...... not showing anxiety about the future.  Only after this was he ready to serve God and humble enough to lead his people  ...... 

So the discontent of Israel is a very good lesson to us today.  I see many beautiful young girls who stay single and not marry unbelievers.  Some here have excellent education (the Russians are all stunningly beautiful and educated) and work for low wage salaries to pioneer.  Truly wonderful examples....... But now and then I can see a restlessness in individuals..... maybe a wish for a career or children - feminine self-fulfillment....... it is natural to have these desires.  It is then that I try to be the older word of reason.....  assist them to stay focussed and on track.   We do not want to do something irrational in the time we are living in. 

It is time to think only in spiritual terms - not feel sorry for ourselves.  Times are getting urgent. So like the Israelites in the desert we must not succumb to our own desires....even though they are understandable in a fleshly thinking way. 

.......... lol...... Golda Meir said years ago...(in her fleshly thinking) " the good lord led us through many countries to bring us to this land of milk and honey....... and not a drop of oil" ......

Yes - their enemy neighbours  have the oil.....  It is interesting that many of the places which now have water and groves of trees (the Jews have done an excellent job of desalinizing sea water) were bone try before the Jews got control of this land.  The arabs want it because it is now arable and lucrative. 

8 hours ago, Kosonen said:

The beasts in the Bible represent political powers. Not the Watchtower

Good for you that you can see that! I totally agree. I am however disappointed that you tried to answer her question about the ' saints' because she is deliberately misleading you.  The 'saints' (bad translation)  are the virtuous, perfected ones on earth who will be tested by gog of magog at the END of the thousand years. Read rev 20: 3 "he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while."  Verse 7 says: " Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison,  8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. " 

These are people on earth who will be tested as perfect people like Adam.

The new Jerusalem you mentioned is Jesus and his bride who will have their tent over mankind during the thousand years.   

11 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

you get ready for the CCJW to be punished by God. 

God will definitely punish individuals who are ( or were) part of his people who persisted in sins....... whether it is arrogance, misleading others, or gross sins. 

11 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

therefore do you not understand the big difference ? 

I understand that all are imperfect humans (ancient fleshly Israel as well as the spiritual Israel of god).  Pride is a blinding sin.  When one judges for God that the spiritual Israelites  he is using are not good enough for you. 

We are already in the period leading up to the events leading to Armageddon and you are still waiting for a more perfect spiritual Israel to make an appearance?  Isaiah 2: 2-4.  A nation coming from all nations on earth ,gathered to jehovah,  and learning war no more

11 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

My prayers to God ask HIM to bring forth a clean people for HIM to use

I do not think you are going to find any such people...... even if God has already answered your prayers and they are right in front of your eyes......maybe you are the only person God can use heh?  It seems you think this way...... remember the pharisees judged a perfect man - jesus- as not being good enough. Do not fall in the same trap.

4 hours ago, Kosonen said:

fear to add anything to the Bible, to God's word. So it is best I leave this subject without adding my speculations to how people will be judged at the resurrection.

Good attitude to have.

However the bible does speak of the resurrection of the righteous and  'unrighteous'. Acts 24:15.  An unrighteous person receiving a resurrection has shown faith in Jesus such as the unrighteous man on the stake next to Jesus. Other unrighteous humans who have lived (say in China) long before Jesus paid the ransom, have paid for their sins in death but will also be covered by the ransom sacrifice of Jesus.  

During the 1000 year judgment day,  Jesus as high priest will administer the value of his sacrifice for all resurrected ones (including those who had no incling of christ) to lead them to perfection. When Satan is let loose (battle against Gog of Magog) and the final test as a perfect person is completed, the bible indicates that those choosing against Jehovahs way of ruling will go to Gehenna - everlasting death. 

Yes the same issue of obedience to Jehovahs sovreignty will come up again under Gog of magog at the end of the 1000 years. This time the 'unrighteous' will understand the issues involved as perfect people.  All of us on earth will be tested as perfect people - like Adam.  Jehovah is just and the system of judgment he implements is just - giving unrighteous ones who did not have the opportunity to know christ and jehovah a chance to do so.

7 hours ago, Kosonen said:

But do we have any scripture that would say that directly? I don't

We need not have a scripture to tell us that there are tons of people living millennia before jesus christ, who never knew about him.  It is clear from the chronology of the bible and the fact that jehovah used only Israel to bring forth the messiah. Eventually "all the earth" would be blessed by the promise to Abraham..

6 hours ago, Kosonen said:

The great city is New York.

The world is a mighty big place. To Americans New York seems to be very important but it is not even the legislative capital of USA....... so how can God specially refer to this city as a wicked city which has persecuted his people and committed spiritism ...... and riding the beast - the political system....... and now her judgment has come.

London or Beijing with its stock exchanges can then (for a case of speculation) easily be this city too...... ...but no - this city is a symbol of something which has been around for a long time ....... it was already around when this prophecy was written down in the time of apostle John and it is something which has plaqued mankind since they turned away from God. It is something which was twinned with the beast the political system.

As I mentioned to you before, the ancient city of Babilon (in the time of Sumerians) became famous for, and was the originator of star gazing, spells and it was the city where,  Babylon under Nimrod, rebelled against God and  originated false religion and combined false religion  with political rulership. 

Kings James version: rev 20: 7&8   "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison,  8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. " 

On 3/24/2020 at 4:02 AM, Witness said:

"saints" who are the "kings of the earth",

Read the above scripture in king James translation - it uses the word "nations"..... The archaic translation you are using is deliberate to try to deceive Mr Kosonen. 

But even if it uses the word "saints" in this translation....... All people on earth will be perfect at this time (end of 1000 years) and will then be tested as perfect people in the same way that Adam was tested.  All people will make a choice as perfect people........ as saints.   Definition of  a saint in dictionary:  a virtuous person, kind and patient person. 

Read the modern king James translation.... it is not as misleading as the old one. King James - the homosexual and fornicator - had this old  bible translated to prove /confirm the dogmas of the church at the time such as trinity etc. 

On 3/19/2020 at 1:55 AM, 4Jah2me said:

No organisation is suitable for God to use right now. No organisation is clean enough or Spiritua

That is your opinion. You are telling God that you feel there is no organization clean enough....  

Do you not remember the scripture where David said that if jehovah only looked at our faults then no-one will be able to stand before him.... 

Israel was very imperfect but jehovah stuck with his purpose for them. 

11 hours ago, Anna said:

including a few designated to comment

There is a feature where you can raise your hand..... so we do it as in a real meeting. If people are picked to answer it takes away spontaneity...... just my thought....

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

argumentation how EVEN WOMEN can do this or that

That is exactly the point. Some people believe the bible to be exceedingly patriarchal but yet the bible says a capable woman is one of business who can  buy land (a field) and her trading is profitable.

On 3/19/2020 at 3:22 AM, Kosonen said:

horse, and its Rider Jesus

The white horse which rides symbolises the beginning of christ's reign because the rider has a 'crown'  and a bow.  At this time the horse rider throws Satan and his demons out of heaven and we see the signs of this event here on earth (the other three horse riders 'follow' the white horse - so these events follow the crowning of christ and him 'conquering' and the throwing out of heaven of the satan and his demons..)

Later we see this white horse rider in righteous warfare during Armageddon where he is establishing himself as the king of kings here on earth. The rider (christ) is followed by the heavenly armies which kill all humans with the mark of the beast here on earth.  The birds of the heavens are invited to the feast of the flesh of kings, slaves, Freeman, small and great. The wild beast and false prophet is destroyed and those with its mark....... the battle is between heavenly forces and kings here on earth. Rev 19: 11 to end.

6 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

he was not bothered by this virus and that  'we were expecting it to happen' as part of a sign of

I was expecting a black swan event..... (the virus is bad - but it has been mismanaged which makes it easier to bring more permanent and stringent  emergency legislations to many countries). It will to bring down the established supply chains,  many businesses and probably the petro-dollar.   The world will be changed after this event.  They will try to return to normal but things will deteriorate (food shortages and financial recession ) so that governments will willingly give certain aspects of their power over to he UN eventually and the UN  world banking system to promote greater cooperation.  

The image of the beast  will be the 8th king and looked upon as the structure to bring world cooperation, peace and better security.

The Pope and leaders of 2 other mainstream religions in the west will ride high on the political system to take the initiative to bring only "one god" to the world......And write Jesus out of the bible in unity with other members of the religious system. (The Pope already postponed the unveiling of this event from May to October 2020 ...due to Corona). I believe it will be the beginning of the signs jehovah has been so gracious to give us ahead of time regarding the image of the beast and the world empire of false religion. 

This is my personal opinion . ....because I totally agree with the time-line the slave has given us.  They are Jehovahs slave albeit imperfect men..... but I concur with their identification of the beast, the image of the beast and the harlot.... totally...... and  with 1914.  

It may take a little longer than I think...... but in my opinion...... things are panting towards the end...... it will not be late. 

Some people seem happy because they think we are in disarray..... we are not .... our hopes are getting better now that we are entering the period we have prepared for and kept in expectation of. Things are moving along nicely - as expected.

We had our meeting online today - the entire congregation.  Most witnesses are still doing telephone witnessing.

Being 67 years of age, I already quaranteened myself before the emergency conditions were called out in my country. 

This does not mean that we stop preaching or attending meetings! Or have contact with our spiritual family! 

So you are saying we only use the old testament when it suits us?  No - the principles in the old testament stand till today.  Hard work, providing for your family and buying property is not wrong.  Eccl 31 . .... even women can buy property and work hard to provide things for the family. 

Which denomination teaches that the 1000 years has started?

22 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

including evil doers and unbelievers.

Evil doers need to show repentance as far as I know.  So do not bluff yourself. 

On 3/19/2020 at 10:29 PM, Kosonen said:

Hi, nice to hear something

Hi- nice to see you are still here.  Jehovah does not change.   Jesus DID encourage us to not love money but it is not wrong to let money work for you. Especially if you are preaching full time and you have a property lying fallow - it can later be sold for a profit.

To make property pay you have to pay now but reap dividends later when the property has picked up more value - an investment which one does not have to work hard at.

Well you better all sell your houses.  If others are not allowed to have a home or property (even if they are in Bethal) then you should not throw stones if you own a house....... 

Easy to judge others when someone is not checking up on your financial situation .......

Jealousy or malicousness comes in many forms.

Abraham was blessed ..... and slaves were part of the system...... it seems most of the men in Abraham's household assisted Abraham to fight against 5 kings on an expedition to  Damascus to save Lot from them when he and his family were abducted (possibly to be slaves). These men willingly fought with Abraham at peril of their lives...... so he must have been a very just and fair man to receive such loyalty.

I have several friends who make money by building and investing in property. It definitely beats the stock exchange - as long as one does not overpay for the property and the location is good.

My best friend supported her family with construction work. Yes, a woman with her own company and she did preaching when she could.

My husband thankfully had his heart attack in Sweden otherwise all our savings would have been wiped out  in USA.  He was only 61 years old.   

Nine days hospitalization five years back in Florida for a bout if pneumonia cost a friend  almost 70,000 dollars. She was only 45 years old...... and that is without the Bill's for the doctors.  So one bit of sickness can wipe out the profit on a property overnight.

I do not think it is wrong to save in this way for some health event...... I did it myself.  Nothing wrong with being prudent.  Young people who have no hospital bills to pay do not realize how expensive it is. Cancer treatment is quite sketchy if one does not have good health insurance and Medicare does not guarantee the best treatment. 

A holiday property next to the sea is also not a sin - although you really try hard to make it look this way.  

If I decide to leave a property in my will to the organization it is my business and if I do some prudent business on the side I am fulfilling proverbs 31... by being a smart wife.... whether I am JW or not.

Yes, if all my thinking is consumed by a "love " of money or the accumulation of wealth ..... then it would be a sin. But it is not wrong to earn money by your personal endeavours while serving God. Abraham obeyed God and showed exceptional  faith and God blessed him materially.  So do a little finger pointing in Abraham's and Jacob's direction!

I personally think that showing jealousy of another's success is an even bigger sin than making money by prudent and honest endeavours. Also the petty research to try and malign another persons reputation is also a sin. 

What did all this research and wasted time  prove?  Not much......it only shone a light on the intent of the presenter.

Belarus is almost more communist than Russia -  the places people can flee to are becoming less and less here in this region of the world. 

The republic of Georgia is less communist but the official church is just as opposed to JWs as is the nationalistic state church of Russia- the orthodox church.

On 2/22/2020 at 7:25 PM, 4Jah2me said:

Did the 1st Century Christians cry out for Human Rights

Paul did call out to Ceasar - which sets a legal precedent. 

On 2/22/2020 at 6:14 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

the predominate language inAzerbaijani is Russian.

They speak their own language but were forced to learn Russian under the USSR. The Russian mentality has stuck and together with Islam it suppresses minority religions.

We see reports of ugly torture in Russia regarding JWs - the police are a law to themselves.  Russia may do the same way as many other communist states...... have a life-long "elected" dictator.