Arauna

Well you better all sell your houses. If others are not allowed to have a home or property (even if they are in Bethal) then you should not throw stones if you own a house....... Easy to judge others when someone is not checking up on your financial situation ....... Jealousy or malicousness comes in many forms. Abraham was blessed ..... and slaves were part of the system...... it seems most of the men in Abraham's household assisted Abraham to fight against 5 kings on an expedition to Damascus to save Lot from them when he and his family were abducted (possibly to be slaves). These men willingly fought with Abraham at peril of their lives...... so he must have been a very just and fair man to receive such loyalty.

I have several friends who make money by building and investing in property. It definitely beats the stock exchange - as long as one does not overpay for the property and the location is good. My best friend supported her family with construction work. Yes, a woman with her own company and she did preaching when she could. My husband thankfully had his heart attack in Sweden otherwise all our savings would have been wiped out in USA. He was only 61 years old. Nine days hospitalization five years back in Florida for a bout if pneumonia cost a friend almost 70,000 dollars. She was only 45 years old...... and that is without the Bill's for the doctors. So one bit of sickness can wipe out the profit on a property overnight. I do not think it is wrong to save in this way for some health event...... I did it myself. Nothing wrong with being prudent. Young people who have no hospital bills to pay do not realize how expensive it is. Cancer treatment is quite sketchy if one does not have good health insurance and Medicare does not guarantee the best treatment. A holiday property next to the sea is also not a sin - although you really try hard to make it look this way. If I decide to leave a property in my will to the organization it is my business and if I do some prudent business on the side I am fulfilling proverbs 31... by being a smart wife.... whether I am JW or not. Yes, if all my thinking is consumed by a "love " of money or the accumulation of wealth ..... then it would be a sin. But it is not wrong to earn money by your personal endeavours while serving God. Abraham obeyed God and showed exceptional faith and God blessed him materially. So do a little finger pointing in Abraham's and Jacob's direction! I personally think that showing jealousy of another's success is an even bigger sin than making money by prudent and honest endeavours. Also the petty research to try and malign another persons reputation is also a sin. What did all this research and wasted time prove? Not much......it only shone a light on the intent of the presenter.

Belarus is almost more communist than Russia - the places people can flee to are becoming less and less here in this region of the world. The republic of Georgia is less communist but the official church is just as opposed to JWs as is the nationalistic state church of Russia- the orthodox church.

Paul did call out to Ceasar - which sets a legal precedent.

They speak their own language but were forced to learn Russian under the USSR. The Russian mentality has stuck and together with Islam it suppresses minority religions. We see reports of ugly torture in Russia regarding JWs - the police are a law to themselves. Russia may do the same way as many other communist states...... have a life-long "elected" dictator.

Babylon had land, Nineveh had land, Elam had land and so did other nations which God had judged. The land was not the focus for punishment but the wicked people...... I wonder sometimes if you ever take jehovah or the bible seriously. You are not just condescending towards people but even towards God. Do you take anything seriously????

The only pre-emptive war Israel participated in was the " cleansing " of the promised land. This was an execution of a judgment bymeans of Israel upon wicked peoples who burnt their children in fire and had atrocious sexual behaviours. God promised that Abraham's children would be given this land but their error must first come to it's full measure. This was not murder because jehovah does not murder. These pagans paid for their gross error. Just like Sodom & Gomorra - this was not murder but a judgment because it came from jehovah.

WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?" After christ came- all warfare is murder because Christian's will refuse to participate in war. All forms of killing is forbidden.

It was a legal trial but not just and righteous.

As I said earlier - it does not matter if warfare is murder or not because BOTH warfare and murder or any killing is no longer allowed if you want to be a true Christian. Maybe for a false Christian. You can join another Christian church if you feel killing or war is acceptable. They love to go and give their children in sacrifice to the God of war - and all in the name of nationalism. Their leaders drum the war Tom-toms and then they go fight their leader's wars. Iraq is a good example: young men died to win territory which a new president gives away..... when things change.... they forget the precious blood that was given for their warmongering and mistakes. Isaiah clearly states that in last days those serving jehovah "will learn war no more". So your irrelevant, sneaky question is not applicable...... because NONE of it is allowed if you are a true Christian.

It is not wrong to know what is going on in the world but it is wrong to take sides in its issues and get involved in it..... I watch world events to see in which direction world events are heading....... just as Abraham asked jehovah about sodom and gomorrah and travelled around. I do not belong to any worldly organisations or even vote for a seemingly innocent thing. Neither do I fund any organization be it religious or political or any other issues. I do not go to parties, clubs, celebrate worldly festivals or follow a worldly career. Twice I gave up a lucrative career that could have brought recognition and money.... I do not watch modern movies or ...... agh........ I leave it there. Jehovah will judge me...... thanks to Him, it will not be your job to judge me. My knowledge of the world and what is going on in it helps me in my preaching work........ which I enjoy tremendously.......I meet tourists every day here in Tbilisi and can immediately relate to them because of my knowledge of the political situation in their countries. My general knowledge helps as well. For example just in the last few days I preached to an Irishman and could open a conversation about the kingdom by referring to sinn fein. ....which he immediately explained.....how they recently won the election. He left amicably with information about Jehovahs kingdom in contrast with the political turmoil in the world..... and where he can get more info. I also spoke to a Chinese woman who wants to leave China due to the new level of surveillance.....she says they check telephones on return to China in random fashion. There is no freedom of speech. She was also kicked out of three hotels in Tbilisi because of discrimination regarding the Corona virus. She gave me her email address. I already sent her information to help her. We spoke at length about JWs and the kingdom as the only solution. Today I met an Arab from Saudi Arabia on the metro train. I gave him my number. Tonight I had a long return visit with him over the phone and immediately understood his fears about talking to JWs (because I studied his religion and know the political situation in his country). He did not go into lengthy explanations because he saw that I knew what he was talking about. I gave him good advice because he can be killed in his own country if they inspect his phone. He expressed his thoughts that he thinks we are the true nation of God after I had explained the difference between our teachings regarding the future government of God and that of Islam..... I rest my case.......

I may mention that during or just before Armageddon there may be anarchy when people attack and do as they please. There may be no law and order. Better to die innocent before jehovah than to have blood on your hands. Practically, you may be able to fight off one person..... what do you do if a group comes at you? ....Best to have been loyal to jehovah from the start because the odds are not high that you can fight to defend yourself...... rather trust in the one who can give you back your life. Our trust in Jah may be tested this far..... like jesus in a life and death situation. Jesus chose to die faithful to Jehovah's principles and healed the soldier's ear and told Peter to put away his sword.

Carefully crafted question to get the answer you have already decided upon. You remind me of the liberation fighters in Africa who wrote doctors theses on their right to "fight" with weapons (and other means) to liberate themselves from colonial oppression. They all got degrees in theology and used the bible to justify their stance. This means that anyone can justify their stance if they twist the teachings of Jesus. I firmly believe that we will be tested on this stance in future. The fact that we refuse to kill our brothers in another country or any other human (whatever the provocation) will test if we really love our neighbour. Most religions are prepared to kill others. If you love your life you will lose it - this was a scripture quoted last week in study. "Abstain" from blood, fornication and what us strangled...... this means stay away.... do not touch - the same as you will not touch or bring another woman close to you or Acts 20: "but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood." In your mind yes. Bring me a scripture in the new testament where jesus, Paul, John , Peter or James said anything to this effect...... I dare you to find a scripture which indicates we can use a weapon against another or defend ourselves by taking a life of another! The new testament is clear that even abusive speech is NOT acceptable - in book of Judas. The heart is treacherous...... why? We follow our own independent way away from obedience to God.

The question above is crafted very carefully to avoid the main question: whether Jehovah allows any form of war or killing. Especially after his Son paid the ransom sacrifice and told Peter to put away his sword - plus other scriptures which prove that christians are no part of the world otherwise they would fight. Our fight is a spiritual warfare. Jesus was put to death because he did not become an earthly king to fight the Roman's. Roman's 11: " 48 If we let him go on this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.” Romans 14:8 "For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah." 9 For The above question is designed to create a choice for either killing or murder - so no matter how one answers it, it still looks as though war is acceptable because it is not murder.....so killing is acceptable...... A very sneaky question..... It reminds me of satan's question to eve: you are not allowed to eat from ALL the trees in the garden......? .

Very brutal...... Russia is a theocracy who does not adhere to international law. We pray for our brothers.

Thanks - no prob. Just stick to subject if you please.

I have already told my story on this forum. How I was interrogated when I became an American citizen. My interviewer was hostile because I requested for the clause to defend USA to be omitted. I did not push bible verses on him. I had already determined that he was a great patriot and replied accordingly. I said that I have such great respect for life because this is all we have from God - our life is precious. I answered that it is a pity that some people have given everything they have to the country they love and are fired when they have emotional issues due to deployment. Some do not receive all the medical care they need (this was the case at the time) and I added that they come home in body bags and the press is not allowed to honor them in death by photographing their return. The day he gave me my citizenship he was all smiles when he congratulated me. My father also fought in North Africa, Italy, went to Japan with the Americans and fought in Korea....... these people do not like war to be glorified.

Same old, same old...... ...... outright attack...... not about the current subject which is about open and closed club but again going back (repetitive behavior) to the same old subject already discussed elsewhere........not worthy of a new answer .......because you are not interested in civility or really listening to a plausible answer.

I have not yet met those guys. I met only the ones with OCD and constant accusations.....

That is not the reason....they say it is preferable not to get involved in combat at all. Personally I think the GB are correct to advise this. When one gets into combat here, one group has an unequal advantage in the battle. JWs have to stay decent while others can use dirty tactics. So inevitably it looks bad when JWs fight the spiritual fight with similar weapons. After all we must rather work on our love skills than spiritual combat. ....... and you must admit the club has often turned out to be an open battlefield for those who hate JWs.

This makes us the only nation on earth which is different. Isaiah 2:2-4 clearly states that the worshippers of 'Jehovah' would flock together to his spiritual temple from all over the earth and " learn war no more". We are true christians because other Christian's still go to war and kill (or approve of it under the excuse of nationalism.) 1 John says that if you love jehovah you will love your neighbour. Who is your neighbour? Everyone. To go back to the time of Israel: I know of only one time jehovah allowed Israel to do pre-emptive war. As Mr Harley above quoted the scripture: the amorites were so wicked that jehovah wanted them exterminated .....but still gave them 400 years ( to hopefully change.).... until their extreme wickedness warranted the severe punishment. Remember, the canaanites were innocent child slayers........ each life they took had an accounting with Jehovah....... and that is apart from all the other degenerate sex worship and practices. Israel would remove them from the land but in this action they would have to prove their faith in jehovah to help them in combat and also show obedience to do it thoroughly. Jehovah allowed Israel to grow into a nation in captivity in Egypt - not in Canaan. In Canaan they could have broken into tribes or gone after canaanite gods. This not only preserved their unity but allowed them to grow strong as a nation while having protection of another great military power. They had their own area where they lived in the Nile delta (separated) until they were oppressed by Pharoah because they grew mighty in numbers. Jehovah did not take Israel out of Egypt by direct route through philistine territory because he was afraid that they would not face up to war immediately after leaving. Read it this week in bible. He took them via the red sea and fought the battle for them. Pharoah's army perished. The nation left the most powerful country on earth - in PEACE - with no war. That was a miracle! After having jehovah pamper them with food, giving them a cloud to lead them by day and night, and other miracles which proves that He exists - they initially still did not have the faith and courage to fight the Canaanites. They then spent an extra 40 years wandering the desert because they did not have enough faith...... They feared the Rephaim. (Goliath was a rephaim). Those 40 years of wandering forged them into a strong nation ready to take on the task ahead. War was hand to hand combat. Each individual needed to build their faith. The war with the amelekites was a defence war because the amelekites came down to attack them when they asked to pass through their land on the highway peacefully. After this the fear of the God of Israel came upon Jericho. All other times Israel went to war it was in defence. jehovah allowed them to defend themselves after they had been severely oppressed....... because they had fallen into the extremely dirty false worship of the land. The philistines did not allow Israel to have impliments to sharpen their agricultural equipment. The Medianites used to raid their food so that Gideon worked at night..... so it was not easy for them until they cried to jehovah and another judge was called up to free them. David was in trouble with jehovah because he had a sensus taken of the able bodied men who could fight. Pestilence then made the numbers of the sensus uncertain. Jehovah did not want them to think of war. While they served him they would be safe. David was not allowed to build the temple because he was a man of war. They were not supposed to make alliances with other nations to fight war - or fight their wars for them with other alliances. They were supposed to trust in jehovah exclusively. The 12 tribes went to war in hand to hand combat but the levite priests did not - they were holy - separate. Solomon collected chariots and horses but it was against the instructions of jehovah..... So their are many indications in the old testament which tells us how jehovah feels about war.

Our warfare now is only spiritual. However, the entire world under satan's control is still committing pre-meditated murder by training to kill others in war. Jehovah will judge each one of them if they do not repent by taking advantage of Jesus' ransom sacrifice. The world and its war will soon disappear when jehovah removes all those who benefit from war.

Spot on.

Jesus changed everything. The law was a ' tutor' to christ. So now we must love our neighbours as he did. He gave his life for his friends - we must be able to do the same. If I love you in this way and you love me in this way, the world will be a wonderful place. However, most people are not prepared to give up their own ego and their own selfish goals to serve Christ properly - let alone give their life for someone else. If you are prepared to give your life it actually means you value their life as your own..... giving more than what is expected. James 4: 1 "What is the source of the wars and fights among you? Do they not originate from your fleshly desires that carry on a conflict within you"

I sometimes watch "China uncensored".... and there is a South African who lived there for many years who loved China but now had to leave.