Arauna

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Both you and @the Sower of Seed, say that Paul had to submit and humble himself to the "older men" in Jerusalem, and do their will; to go and preach where these men directed them.

Do not put words in my mouth. Yes, Paul did go and testify to the GB in Jerusalem about circumcision. He respected the brothers who were appointed in their positions on this central body. He did not agree with them so he went to testify..... and Jehovahs spirit gave the outcome....... the right decision because Paul's evidence was overwhelming. Those in Jerusalem  were not working so far afield and did not see the evidence first hand which Paul presented to them.

However, Paul was moved by holy spirit to preach and was moved to go where the spirit took him. He had the whole wide world open to him and jehovah knew where the best places would be to start congregations.... so Angel's were involved.

Today the work is coordinated by congregations in the territory so we do not get the public riled up by plagueging them. This way of doing things has many practical reasons behind it - there are no sinister control agendas..... Jehovah is a God of order. 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

sort of person who admits they have led JWs in error,  would

So you will never admit an error?..... because you say you are anointed you cannot make a mistake? 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

It’s very possible that the apostles judged the “older men” in Jerusalem if they were anointed

Strange how you stand up for this type of hierarchy when Paul was an apostle too - not only the 12 (the word apostle only means "sent out" ).  Paul and John corrected 'elders' in congregations because they did not root out the evil which silently came into the congregations.  The elders were appointed and were shepherding the flock at this time and this was to be the model for the future in congregations. The apostles went to their graves to wait for first resurrection so in this entire time they were not capable of judging.....  By the way they were all men...... no women.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

by condemning someone over and over without scripture to back up their words, is not spiritually wise. 

Your own words condemn you when it distorts the truth. 

Irony: In Nigeria, they take babies away because they "believe" them to be in danger because their medical treatment ideas are still in the stone age.....

And on the other side of the world the country that has the facilities and knowledge to save babies are killing fetuses and full term babies because of new abortion laws that allows mothers to decide at last minute before birth if its life will be worth bringing into the world.   Crazy world.

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

makes more sense that it is simply "false religion

An empire rules over others. Religion has ruled over hearts and minds of people for thousands of years and dominated their lives until modern enlightenment and Darwinism came along. Now religion still negotiates deals like the one for May 2020 but Babylon the great is losing its waters it is sitting on.

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

At present, they have no such power to do anything like that. If they did, we already know it would be completely ignored, at least under current world circumstances.

Not true. 176 countries have signed the 3 agreements that put them under UN policies.  AGENDA 21, Agenda 2030 and UN migrant compact 2018.  Since the time of George Bush the G20 countries have been working towards UN goals as well as billionaires - who use their foundations to donate funds to projects that further UN goals. G Soros, Bill Gates, etc etc. NGOs are already I infiltrated in most countries to fulfill the environmental goals of the UN. It is just a matter of time until the UN and its coalitions start to rule openly.  When their policies are openly the only ones accepted everywhere.

UNESCO is pushing the new young child sex education onto every school in EU, USA, Africa, canada, Australia, NZ, UK etc. Countries who do not play ball get no funding. In my estimation the image of the beast is already ruling underneath everything.... it us just a matter of time now... They will replace the usual religious rules with a new world morality which includes LGBTQ.  If you do not accept this you will be seen as a rebel or radical.

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

How can the U.N. carry the message, by implementing other false religions in their

The Baha'I religion has an office at the UN - they believe all religions lead to the one true God.  The other religion which carries weight at UN is theosofists (spiritistic origins).  Mrs rooseveldt read their creed at the inauguration of the UN. 

They will say there is only one God and he can be served by all religions - they will promote interfaith and the new set of moral rules as prescribed by UN. 

1 hour ago, Witness said:

they have adulterated the teachings of Christ and the apostles.  To ap

I have seen enough on here to understand that you have no sense of justice or mercy - only false accusations.  Satan was an accuser day and night. 

To quote the same tons  of scriptures over and over is not wisdom.

6 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

finishing up his bile salad and will return presently.

To vent his spleen - lol

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Today's "apostles" were not trained by Jesus. Not

No apostles today. Apostles of hold could lay on the hands so people can get gifts of the spirit - not possible today.

4 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Oh Tom, you and @Arauna are just so true to your GB & Co, and I expect you will remain that way.  So

Proud to be a Witness... and extremely grateful to jehovah.

I really appreciate a good level of logic and reasoning even if I do not agree with another person...... but over the top, unrealistic accusations that go on and on in an emotionally charged way...... well what can I say.....is the outcome .....

15 minutes ago, Witness said:

4) This implies that the GB are higher in "rank" than the apostles!

BLASPHEMY!  Can

Implication False!  The apostles are in heaven already - received immortality. The GB are mortal men who act as a slave - do their masters bidding to preach the word and give food at proper time in the last days. This is their commission. 

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

other reasons that I write what I do.

Same here.  And that will also get criticism because some set themselves up as jury and judge in high supreme court.

5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

have highest moral standards, only who be saved, .....and similar "the best"".

While we try to keep high morals we realize we are imperfect and NOT the best!   Understandably, I agree with you...... those who are not perfect and hate like Cain because they are not trying to please God like Abel did - they will look and find fault..... This will go in till the end of this system.

34 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

mankind. Rebuilt by slave labour of congregants, because those congregants were fooled in

Are you for real?  I am starting to doubt if it is really worth wasting time to reason with you on this. You have made up your mind what GBs motives were and decided there are thousands upon thousands of "victims" strewn all over. .... the exaggeration and accusation has no limits.... 

32 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

What did the U.N. do between 1999-2010? Defamation of religion. What was primary reason, Islam.

Just a point of interest.  Islam countries have made inroads into UN. Woman's rights and human rights council are now run by Islamic countries who vote each other in..... things have changed.

The jew-hate in the UN and EU countries is a direct result of Islamic influence. Quran and Hadith stipulates that all Jews will be killed.  Hence the incomprehensible radical left and Islam's love affair - pushed by UN.

2 minutes ago, Anna said:

Stop paying the rent then 😀

Lol. He said Jesus had no place of his own so JWs are not doing it right by buying or renting places. .... that was his implication.... 

He must not judge if he is living in a rented space. Lol 

Some will always find something to critisize......sigh....

8 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

This is essentially what you are saying. You are not accountable for your sins, just Adam is and you think that Jesus is paying for what Adam did and 

 

You change his words and put words in his mouth.... you do this all the time to twist a point. This is not honest.  

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

called this type “mercenary ministers.”

This is an example where the law is the law - no matter if he did not take other factors into consideration or not.  One has to go and fight it in a higher court. 

31 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

your GB live in luxury, buying

Dormitories as said above. As a matter of fact some witnesses do not like living in dorms and leave Bethel because they feel institutionalized..... too rigid. We are all different. Some can do it some cannot.   This is not luxury. It is have your basic needs cared for.

9 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

But in truth they are just real estate for the GB to make profit from. What adds to that insult is that Congregants

You are really a control freak. They bought it for one purpose and years later sold it because it was no longer needed. You ascribe motives to them which you cannot prove.  You expect them to really sit on it when they can sell it?   Even if they sold it at a profit - they can build umpteen kingdom halls in africa for the money they got. That is called wise and discreet - not greediness or avarice.

When you feel like hammering something - everything looks like a nail.

53 minutes ago, Witness said:

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world

You are so holy and judgmental of the GB be ause they are not holy enough to your high standards..... really ..... what are you doing on this forum with a bunch of renegades ?

16 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

And then Kingdom halls are sold off to other religions or to

You sound like a total control freak..... since when did Jesus say one cannot sell a place for whatever reason. The only thing one burns and do not give away or sell is an object for idolatry or spiritism..... such as spiritistic books or something that will be venerated.

13 hours ago, Kosonen said:

and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.*+ 26  But the Court sat, and they took away his rulership, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him completely."

Daniel 7 speaks of the fourth 'beast' and the one arrogant ' horn' that grows out of it. Then it moves to and fro between the human actions of the little horn and jehovahs kingdom rule and from the horn to the remnants of the forth ' beast ' itself. One therefore must be careful to ensure what it is speaking about.

In the final summary of the chapter written by Daniel.....It is this Anglo-American 'horn' that persecutes God's people and "they are given into his hand"  ..... this comes after the kingdom was established... invisibly in heaven shrouded by clouds.

This has happened (JWs understood it to have happened) at a time when JWs desperately needed to understand what was going on with them. .. at the time they understood Christ must be in Kingdom  power. Their preaching was stopped.  The persecution was sudden and severe with leaders in jail-  a dark period- so they started to understand  prophecy  at that time  and they received courage  to go on....motivated to preach when they came free from jail.... (apologies- I must have read too fast the previous time I commented for it does speak if 3 and half period in this chapter) the same period is referred to in Revelation with respect to the 2 Witnesses.

Please keep in mind that the book of Daniel will open up in the time of the end (Daniel 12:4) and Revelation shows that it is visions which will take place  Rev 1:10 " by inspiration, I came to be in the Lords day."  The bible students were scourged and cleaned by jehovah according to their own understanding.  They applied micah 3:1-3 to themselves. Like lye they were washed clean. They were the messenger that later was to become the "slave"  just like John the Baptist came before Jesus. Russel and his clan was this messenger.

This was one of the milestones when they really needed encouragement ......so after the 3 and half times they received a ressurrection - came back to life to preach anew as a newly refined people.

 Whether a more severe period lies ahead- with 3 and half period our preaching work totally dead.... I do not know. All I do know is that we expect severe persecution now and have been prepared for it by the GB. Their interpretation of this prophecy before, gave them the incentive to go on..... with Jehovahs mercy.

We have had relative freedom for a number of years but the biggest assault ever is lying ahead - on our endurance and morality.   I am  sure that we will be attacked  in some way because we do not accept interfaith, blood, military service or LGBTQ. While JWs are the most proudly loving multicultural organization in the world -  it is already a felony to publicly be known to not agree with LGBTQ or Islamic teaching.... . In future, we may be branded as offenders against new government instituted morality if we preach to LGBTQ persons by preaching christ as ransom.  The war against the ransom sacrifice is on because we have to have faith in it to be saved by jehovah. Matthew 24 clearly indicates that those who follow christ will be persecuted.  

The new radical feminism is warring with the bible and wants it banned because they say it has historically promoted patrairchy in the West.   Illogical as it seems these radicals have Islam as their bedfellows - they ignore its extreme patriarchy where under Sharia women really have no rights. 

This is the illogical lunatic asylum we are living in now..... soon to become worse.

10 hours ago, Kosonen said:

7:11 "I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant* words that the horn was speaking;+ I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire. 12  But as for the rest of the beasts,+ their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season.

Who is this arrogant horn who speaks great things?  The British empire which later became the dual Anglo-American empire. This the the horn who persecuted the people of God. It will go down as a world empire and the "rest of the beasts" will be "prolonged for a season" in the United Nations."  

11 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Because most of the explanations are not convincing, thus impossible to understand

You said some witnesses felt this way: the truth is that many witnesses hate history - have never opened a history book in their lives apart from the bit of  history about their own country they were forced to learn in school and barely passed. Now imagine this in a Daniel or Revelation book..... they do not dig in...... they just sigh and complain.... and say they do not understand.

This is why I partly believe that that the GB are now careful  to not get too complicated. They spoon feed prophecy - only that which is absolutely necessary to understand or being fulfilled in the presenf time - and can clearly be seen. 

It is better for new ones (and old) to learn to cope in a wicked world because there is a violent asault on morality all the time from every aspect of society. It is important to build every ones moral endurance  before Armageddon and their capacity to make good descisions.  GB teach life skills better than ever before..... 

12 hours ago, Kosonen said:

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

 

I can not understand how elimination of religion would affect commerce

If you only knew how many jobs are in religious organizations..... how many schools, day care centres, immigration offices (churcbas make milliions upon millions  from the immigration process) and as shareholder in banks....... . The previous Pope resigned because their bank in Italy was caught laundering money internationally.. ..

3 hours ago, Kosonen said:

events around WT society 100 years ago?

Jehovah is a perfect time keeper and his "project " to restore the earth (eph 1:9 speaks of the administration of his plan under the kingdom - the sacret secret....).. has a time-line and milestones. 

He has given us the seven heads of the beast and shown us what will happen directly after the "perousia" starts. (The 3 and half years fall in this period. ).... and gives an indication when the seventh head of the beast (which is also depicted as the duel horned dragon which speaks like lamb...... will blow life into the image of the beast  (which went into abyss and came out again - league of nations which later came up as UN). Later the UN and coalition of nations becomes the 8th king for a short while.... 

God puts it in the heart of Babylon bedfellows to turn against her.  How does the name Babylon fit in with New York?  Jehovah always uses the same picture words for certain concepts.

False religion or unfaithful religion is always depicted as a harlot  or adulterer

Horns are often rulerships or kings

Beasts depict specific empires 

3 hours ago, Kosonen said:

why would Jehovah tell us prophetically about events around WT society 100 years ag

It is part of the time-line but also because these people also needed encouragement in their own time -  to see some things going into fulfillment. They do not see the full promise like those when Armageddon comes but they saw things which helped them stay alert and watchful.

Jehovah cares for the beginning and the end of the generation.

Parts of my story I wrote here on this forum in defence of our blood stance - not the entire story.  Cancer is a horrible disease - especially in babies. 

I was fortunate, South Africa at that time had some of the best infrastructure and surgeons in the world.

They wanted to give her blood during surgery (secretly) but one of the nurses was a JW. She protested.

She had an operation at 8 and half months that lasted the whole day!  It was on the spinal cord on both sides of the chest - 5 cm - large for a small baby.  They did a thoractomy - cut half the body open and removed it in this way.

The surgeon cauterized all the blood vessels as he worked..... she was so close to death, I was not allowed to see her until late that night.  The next day she breathed without machines. She healed fast after that..... usually these patients bleed for at least 21 days...... but after 2 days she stopped. They took the pipes out.

Directly after the surgery they gave her blood boosters.  She was a miracle - she went home on 5 or 6th day....( I cannot remember... accurately).

Afterwards I studied what happens in the body when you take blood. It was then I realized that if she had taken a drop of blood on such a major surgery she would have had anaphalactic shock and died.  Obedience to jehovah saved my child.....

When the bible indicates that the merchants will cry when all the bedfellows of false religion makes her naked - I guess all the billionaires and stock market whizes  will start crying - and there are a few digital moguls in the mix. Lol.  

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

look for signs that might help them predict or prepare.) Everyone should be happy that the GB are

We remain ready - whatever happens. But Jehovah gives us enough information to watch the world around us and understand.  JWs understood who Babylon the Great was a long time ago and got heated up when certain events happened....... at least they stood on the tower and watched for any sign....they kept on the watch...

I personally have no problem with those who misinterpreted signs before.....no matter how silly...... they remained focussed on serving Jehovah and kept on the watch....... they loved jehovah. That is all that Jehovah sees.  Wicked people judge - let them judge - just go on undeterred doing the right things.

I look at world events now and in my mind's eye I say : thank you jehovah for allowing me to see how things MAY unfold.  If I die before these come to fruition, I can say that I have seen the events happen in my minds eye -  I believed every word in the bible by looking for that which it says may occur.... I stay focussed......to remain ready.

The first thing I will ask when I get a resurrection most probably will be: How did it really happen!.....

4 hours ago, Kosonen said:

hard to get any sensible new light from the GB.

They are preparing us for Armageddon.  They do not want to cry wolf....... they are very careful now.... the reason being because we are close to world events suddenly turning seriously bad....... too many to mention. To cry wolf at the wrong time will not be in interest of the sheep.

They are right in doing this because when things occur we will recognize the signs. They have showed us from the bible the signs to expect - we know.  We need no special interpretations any longer like way back in the past. 

5 hours ago, Kosonen said:

That is why Jesus told his disciples in advance what would happen, for example about his death. At that moment they could not believe what he told them. But after his resurrection they remembered that Jesus had many times already told them that this would happen.

Very good point m'dear.

5 hours ago, Kosonen said:

understand that it is hard to believe new things,

I know I sound like a nutcase sometimes....... but I watch the world closely..... to see where things are leading...... and I see things going on in the world (what world leaders are planning) that is absolutely beyond logical comprehension......and they are moving and pushing the agendas fast.......things are changing fast. 

The world we knew a decade ago is fast dissipating. The air we breathe is totally inspired by satan.  

It us time now to keep close to Jehovah, read the bible, keep up the preaching and associate with those who love jehovah.

Now it is much easier than 40 years ago when my daughter had her surgery!  Thanks to the excellent doctors who found a way to do it! 

19 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

claims Adam and Jesus were equal,

You left out this:  BEFORE Adam sinned.  

7 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

There are dozens of other similarities, along with serious and important differences.

Yea, I am waiting for them to come to the meeting with some gold trimming on their long clothes swinging the incense holders, censer, carrying icons, kissing the cross in a laborate ceremony ..... yes .... sounds about the same....congregants kneeling on stools... lol.