Arauna

1 hour ago, Witness said:

money has been foolishly squandered in the “making of many books

Assumptions and accusations. I bet, even if they published the finances,  you would be combing through it for hours to prove that ten cents have been misspent!

12 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

When was the last time YOU walked on water? Healed the Blind? Cast out demons

I have not, but Paul and Peter raised people from the dead because they received the same Holy spirit as jesus did and many of early anointed had special gifts from God to help with establishment of new congregations.

15 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Adam NEVER had the position Jesus has always had. 

I agree with the above. But I did not say what you say above.

15 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

As a fleshly man he was equal to Adam - BEFORE Adam sinned.

I said the above. 

1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because, as word "Christendom"

Christen-dom.  These people have ruled in the past  (the dom stands for 'domain' . They have gone to war - think of crusades, inquisition, Cromwell's puritan civil war, ...too many to mention. This is why the word has a bad connotation.

14 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What is Warwick, sort of Pentagon? Drones, satelites, spies, central intelligence "guided by spirit"? How can human

You really know how to pump things up in total unreality.

Overreaction (over the top accusation) is not one of the fruit ages of Jehovah's spirit

7 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

would be wrong, then, with just admitting that elders also come closest to fitting the role that nearly

You seem to not ever have belonged to a church.  I went to catholic, protestant and evangelical churches in my childhood. My grandmother and mother was catholic, father protestant and I attended church with neighbours at evangelical. 

There is no way one can compare our elders with the hierarchy of the catholic church, the pomp and ceremony, the ritual, and most of all the ' costumes' and the liturgy.... as well as all the titles. One pays money for most services rendered.

In evangelical the priest often sang solo and then presided  over the "receiving of the holy spirit"...the speaking of tongues., healing etc.  I saw people falling over with "spirit"  as a youngster and after a few times did not ever go back. I loved the singing though. Choir singing and pageants, game nights etc at church.

Protestant - the Dutch reformed church is very stoic with a minister which is very stoic.  The church liturgy also has words that are repeated every week with the same minister leading the church members  in the service. While catholic confessions are weekly, in the protestant church the minister is there as a confidant and gives spiritual advice only when requested. He offers classes for catechism.

This the only common denominator JWs  have with all these churches:  the aspect of confidentiality  and advice albeit not in the same format. We cannot call JWs clergy except when referring to a law-  which refers to this single service when offered by a religious org.

4 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

can agree. But GB wouldn't. :))

It uses the illustration of the thief to indicate we do not know the day  -this will be a surprise.

However, in Noah's day they saw him building the ark .  Laughed at him when he preached to them about the flood.  There were visible signs that something was going to happen. ..... they went on with their eating, drinking, marrying .... with normal life until the day came. Jesus co pares the perousia with this.

He also compares it to a pregnant woman.   This indicates one sees the sign of the pregnancy but the day one does not know of the actual birth. The bigger the stomach gets the closer one knows it is. So one knows the inevitable is here but jne still does not know the hour.

Then there is the fig tree .... when you see the flowers one knows the fruits will be coming.... one sees them growing and have an idea they will ripen soon.

The bible has many if these illustrations- - to deny their implications is basically putting your own interpretation on the bible.  They are clear and understandable. 

15 hours ago, Anna said:

How else could they claim clergy privilege unless they applied the worldly definition (legal definition) to the elders?

It may seem like a double standard but it is not.  In our congregations we do not call our elders "father"  leader or such other titles /designations the clergy have traditionally called themselves.... we do not..... BUT we do confide in the elders and in this they have a similar FUNCTion regarding confessions - which the law is about.  So by their function, not title, they qualify as clergy under secular law.

Anna - this is not a comment on your comment. Just a general thought.

9 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Who said He wasn't similar to Adam?

similar and equal are two very different things. 

Actually Jesus was more than equal... if you want to get technical.  Jehovah could have sent another angel  but he did not because he sent the best he had - his first created son.  (His firstborn).

However when on earth - he was just a man in flesh like Adam. He forfeited his position in heaven and received an earthly body like Adam.  He put his soul in death like Adam - so his sacrifice / price was a perfect soul  for an imperfect soul.....  a ransom.  

He was subject to the same conditions (pain and suffering)  imperfect Adam and the whole of mankind experienced and yet maintained perfect loyalty to God.  He was subject to death, injury, hunger, pain, betrayal etc - As a fleshly man he was equal to Adam - BEFORE Adam sinned. Adam started out perfect like Jesus. Jesus proved that  perfect Adam could have remained faithful to God even when tested.

13 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Out of topic, but just for fun.

Says you!   I was comparing current worldly system and Jehovahs true justice system  in future.  

15 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

quote contradict itself.

No - I spoke of current secular system we all live under and future justice of God. 

I do not know if you are deliberately obtuse or not..... but I leave it at that.....

19 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders.

Yes! In a WORDLY court of law!   ..... in the secular world we live in..... 

On 1/11/2020 at 11:09 PM, Kosonen said:

A real eye-opener for me were all the verses in Revelation 17 and 18 that say it is a "great city".

Yes- and the name of the city is even more important.  As I explained to you earlier .  It applies to the time when Babylon was a city state..... after the flood.

It applies to a time when half the world turned against the ONE religion of jehovah god after the flood and refused to spread out and obey Him. Instead they built a tower in opposition to Jehovah with false gods and brought religion and rulership together in a priest-king.

Babylon means confusion....... because jehovah confused their languages and forced them to obey him. People did spread out and took their false religion with them where it proliferated in many forms.

Babylon was a great city.......and her influence regarding religion in opposition to jehovah is still influencing all people on earth in all the false religions which promote teachings which do not honour Jehovah. Now she is called Babylon " the Great".  The great confusion. 

Important to note: Cities in ancient Babylon were city-states.  Religion/superstition ruled and the kings were also high priests of the religion, the servant of the main God of the city. A mixing of religion and politics.

As I explained to you earlier - a conglomerate of governments in the world today have realized that different religions cause wars and division (originally caused by the spreading out of people from Babylon).. This is why there are similar features in the ancient towers and practices all over the world in religion. 

At present, the many diverse and even militant religions are causing much devision in the world.  So the UN and some religions  are now working on one world religion with a new set of morals and only one God will be unveiled..... how far they will get I cannot tell...... but you are right when you say the harlot will ride the red beast..... UN and its supporters. 

The harlot (false religions) have been the force behind governments for millenia BUT you may be right...... riding the beast means religion will take the initiative and steer the direction the world is going.

Watch 2020 because this is the beginning efforts of a world religion.   Religion is taking the initiative at present and although they are facing sex abuse charges etc...... they are recreating their image to keep the worship of the world focussed on them.  Soon she may be riding the beast as a queen- pushing UN agenda.  Other religions will have no place in this world.

The prophecies in Revelation come into fulfillment in the "day of jehovah"  when events lead up to a world-wide Armageddon.  So most of the events we look out for is not based just in one country or a city in one country but a worldwide phenomenon.  Rev 1;10

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

JWs break the law of the land when it suits them

There is no way you can "suit yourself" in a secular  court of law - you fight to win....... to expect otherwise is unjust.  If you lose while innocent and obeying God (like brothers in Russia) one serves the penalty and then try to appeal within the secular law system they have created.

4jah2me, if your sense of justice is still outraged :  I understand..but do not forget, even if a guilty person gets away with something like murder, rape, etc. Jehovah sees everything and he will compensate in future when His system arrives - in the end there will be true justice for all.

Do you believe that God really exists and there is a future where he will compensate?   .... The 1000 years is called a day of judgment is it not?  This world is not all there is....

The GB will be judged as individuals and how they executed their responsibilities given to them. If you really believe God exists - then rest assured no-one will get away with something serious...  The elders too.  God is not partial. 

I have seen elders handle their responsibilities in good way.... and bad.  If their brand of justice is flawed, I have seen elders fall out or be removed...  but jehovah is a God of mercy...... he always gives people time to change or improve..........or repent....... no matter what their sin was.

In a secular court - we accept judgment - even if a mistake was made. We accept that human judgment is not perfect and then try to fight the verdict through legal channels. Many people on death row have been innocent.

In the congregation people's spiritual lives are at stake.... I can speak from experience..... I come across here as hard ... but I have been in truth since I was 21 - the first in my family.  The knocks I got from imperfect brothers and sisters in this time  did affect me....especially when I was young, stupid and fragile. .. but in the end it strengthened me and gave me "endurance". 

I stuck to jehovah (made Him my joy) and cultivated humility. I always tried to understand imperfection and only trust jehovah and stick to him..... this helped me to endure and grow in understanding.

This it is the crux of the matter...... trust that jehovah is the great compensator.  He is the only and absolute provider of true justice. He is righteous.

I read a lot of news .... when I read of the growing injustices against Christian's in north Africa...... the murders, rapes etc.  I just want to literally cry...... in this world run by satan behind the scenes, there is no true justice. 

JUSTICE really depends what kind of government is in power ..... and how corrupt it is or not.    We all will learn this soon when governments turn on religion.... we will see how just governments really are.  The bible does not say for nothing that those who accept Jesus' randsom will be persecuted before Armageddon. 

The law is usually the instrument by which they persecute people when the society is reasonably civil.  When society is in chaos, you are just executed or kangaroo court prevails.

Be glad you are living in a first world country - although things are deteriorating fast.  I cry for the young children being raped in Africa ...... all the time.... it is endemic....  law and order is only for those in power..... not the victims.

Jehovah loves the lowly, the victims..... and they do get a measure of comfort from Him in this world....... the full healing for them will only come in the new system.. ...but they must draw close to jehovah now to get this comfort.  Some do not appreciate this offer from jehovah..... and throw the opportunities away.

6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Did He relinquish those attributes He held prior to coming to earth........ Nope

 Was he flest like Adam when ön Earth? 

16 minutes ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Mankind could eat this fruit and live forever, Adam and Eve were free to eat it while they lived in the Garden, in fact they may have eaten it regularly. Even after

Interesting thought: like the tree of good and bad , I was sure it was symbolic...... because there is no way jehovah would make our everlasting lives depend on a literal tree as we need obedience to him for e everlasting life..... 

19 minutes ago, the Sower of Seed said:

life,24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,25 burn for burn, wound for wound, blow for blow.

Good scripture: jesus paid the randsom with eye for eye, ........it was an exact equal sacrifice... Jehovah knows how to do anything with equal justice and righteousness. 

54 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders.

That is your personal opinion..... the bible gives us instructions on what the role of elders are and we try to follow these instructions.

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

Nothing in scripture states equality with Adam. 

So when Jesus was on earth in which ways was he not similar to Adam.

2 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Adam" in a sense of giving to all a sentence, similar to the first Adam. 

You did not read hebrews 2 : 17 which clearly states that he had to become similar to his brothers in all respects..... to provide a "propitiatory" sacrifice. He had to suffer like them and give his soul in death like them..... if jesus did not really die - the randsom sacrifice was not really paid and there is no resurrection.  Read 1 cor 15 - the chapter.

22 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

and dictators et al. 

I wish people knew what a dictator is.  When they live under one they will not use the word so freely. People call jehovah a dictator as well because he dares to tell them what is right and wrong!

On 1/13/2020 at 9:39 PM, Shiwiii said:

unsubstantiated

Jesus did create Adam and was the first creation of jehovah. However he did not have immortality. He received immortality from jehovah at his resurrection.

When he was on earth he was in flesh completely equal to Adam. He was a perfect human being in flesh and did not have an immortal soul.

1 cor 15:45  " it is written: the first man Adam became a living soul; the last Adam life-giving spirit.

 Here it calls Jesus the last Adam and indicates he was raised up as a spirit.  While on earth he was equivalent to Adam but received immortality afterward. The rest of the chapter discusses resurrection to heavenly life.

Hebrews 2 : 17 "  I struggled for a long time to get this verse copied. My fingers and iPad did not comply. Please read this verse in any translation...... it proves the point.

When we read Matthew 13: 24 onwards (the illustration of the weeds and the wheat) we can see what happened to start the Christian part of Babylon the Great.

Satan sowed wicked seeds amongst the wheat.  People in the congregation contaminated the congregation with wicked philosophies and practices. Many of these ideas came in from the Greek and Roman philosophies (which were contaminated by ancient Babylonian ideas).

The apostles held these pagan and wicked influences back (but after apostle John died -about 100 CE - ) these pagan ideas later became entrenched and even  later institutionalized  in the powerful churches. 

Today most witnesses give up their memberships in other religions - be it Hindu, Islam, christendom etc. They get out of Babylon the Great as individuals.  They are then known as Witnesses of Jehovah. They also do not participate or take sides in any political parties, political issues or any form of nationalistic events. We do not pay homage to national symbols/national days or go to war.  These are practices which are an identifying part of Babylon the Great 's harlotry...... the harlotry with the political systems (kings) of the world. Rev 17: 1-3.

Since the beasts in Daniel depict four succeeding world powers (2 are identified in Daniel 8 as Medea-Persia and Greece)  the beast in Revelation 13 depicts the world political system.  The beast in Rev 13 has all the combined features of the 4 beasts (empires) mentioned in Daniel 7 & 8. 

So how does this fit in with Babylon the Great?  Religion which rides (influences) the beast (UN and conglomerate) or commits fornication with the kings of the earth,  is doomed.  If one gets the mark of the beast with seven heads or the image of the beast you will be a spiritual harlot.  There are only two sides:  loyalty to the future kingdom government of jehovah God OR  loyalty by your actions of mind and hand (slaves were marked on the head or hand)  to earthly governments.

JWs believe that only the future government of God can solve all of the world's problems and therefore believe that only this government can bring true peace and security to the globe.  Other religions still put faith in humans governments to keep peace and security and will believe the human governments when they say they have achieved "peace and security" before the start of Armageddon.

1 tess 5: Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.  3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.  4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves,  

On 1/12/2020 at 3:10 PM, Kosonen said:

All those aspects fit New York. 

Since we are dealing with a world political system, a worldwide religious and financial  system which is not according to gods wish for mankind - the bible indicates all three will be destroyed at Armageddon-  we must be careful to not attribute regional fulfillments to these proohecies.   It is events that will happen on global scale because satan is the ruler of the entire globe. He is behind all false religion, all bad and oppressive human governments and the financial system. 

46 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

doctrines" lied to general public and JW members by claiming how JW congregations have not clergy, priesthood class and how elders in congregations are not clergy, priesthood?

By secular laws - by worldly laws - they can be classified as clergy.   By Jehovahs laws-  definitely not. 

Please start to understand that we live in the world - we cannot go out of the world.... so worldly laws apply to us when we go to court.   In court they will apply the law in this traditional way. 

14 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

IT ISN'T MEANT TO BE FIXED BY HUMANS, IT IS THE DEVIL'S WORLD. ONLY GOD THROUGH CHRIST CAN AND WILL FIX IT.

We cannot fix the world (as you say)  but we can volunteer to help and support our brothers under duress.  This is what Jehovahs org does. Rarely do other organizations manage to help under such severe circumstances .

I recall in Mozambique disaster flooding about 20 years ago, the world watched and sent no help.  A week later when south Africans arrived they found JW volunteer doctors already there and services running in full force - also volunteers. JWs in south Africa had sent blankets and food, water, etc. Jws had problems getting landing rights for their planes but they were there before anyone else. They used chartered planes.  (Since then there has been a second flood.)

11 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

How you try to deceive. 

Opposers are quick to critisize JWs  as TH's example clearly illustrated.  They complained that we did not help all.... but our work is done by unpaid volunteers.

I can mention that Hillary Clinton's foundation received tons of money too!.... and they went there in person and threw their weight around (did not listen to local leaders) and squandered the money on things which they themselves decided were important and in the end it helped no-one. There is also nothing in Haiti to show on what they had accomplished.... but anything written negatively  in the press about where their donated  money went to?  Hillary got sterling coverage out of it... until later when no-one was interested about what really happened! 

11 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Once again you are comparing the GB and JWs to 'the world', that 'wicked world of mankind'.

Yes- we are not allowed to mention anything like this in  in our defence. Or compare our reasonably successful attempts to that of the other sectors in the world, where we are doing a reasonably good job under difficult circumstances. 

One can compare your reasoning to a court where only accusers are allowed to come forward but no defence lawyers allowed.  It is your "rule" that we may not bring up mitigating circumstances or compare our success to failed efforts in the world. 

Who are you to make the rules for what is allowed as a defence argument?  You obviously have made this rule for yourself - not to accept any mitigating circumstances or comparisons. Because we claim to do Jehovahs work, your private rules stipulate that we have to be perfect.  Anything less than perfect is not accepted by you. Your extremely high standard of righteousness must apply in all circumstances - I bet you live up to all of your own rules in private life.  Lol.

Now that to me is  hypocricy when you do not accept we are normal people who can err and make mistakes and only expect standards from us which are above what is normal.  When we show that we do well compared to others - then you come up with the rule that we cannot compare ourselves to the wicked world! Lol...  the truth is, we do manage do get some things right compared to other religious institutions and the "world".

12 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

Yes, this system has become so evil/vile and full of corruption that one cannot even trust governments to do the right thing any longer. The theatrical  divisions in government is an indication of what is going on below the unseen surface. 

True justice is something from the past.  This is how I really see this  worldly governmental system at present. There are many good people still left but they are helpless to do anything any longer because the system is now rigged with powerful 'wicked' people against them in all the right places - on top.

Children are not safe in the child care system any longer where large pockets of child trafficking has been covered up and child syndicates have now become international. Private companies and criminal gangs have gained control of the child care system in some areas and can pick from  the vulnerable children still in their parent's care. Not the entire child care system is wicked but pockets exist where governors or high officials close him are in on the game. I have listened to a few hair- raising stories while cooking.

Jeffrey Epstein's story is one of more..... where airplanes are used to transport young children around and they end up visiting private homes and parties etc.....pizza gate stories surface. ......and it is prevalent in the top echelons of society.  Both UK and USA involved. Part of Epsteins black book was released  (I cannot remember if it was by hackers) and top British officials were included.  Britain it has a long history of child sex, with PM Ted Heath one of them, royals, child TV presenters etc.

Prince Andrew was grilled because a few photos of him surfaced in the tabloids but the Clinton's are untouchable. Saw a new photo of mr Clinton recently with a young girl of Epsteins trafficked group. Absolutely nothing in the press afterwards. 

True investigative reporters and true whistleblowers end up dead in USA and UK and it is ruled a suicide.  Cover-up is all over. Watched a 60 minute recently where people spoke of one corroner always called out in in top cases. His history of false death reports was exposed. He was working with top officials.

Corruption in  law enforcement is high. I know of several policemen who ended up dead. Listened to one (fbi/cia -i forgot) who fled to Moscow.... to save his life and spoke about the corruption high up.... no longer safe to be a real (not fake) whistleblower.

Listened to a soldier's story recently  where she said she was moved to a new base  that was weird. The rules were different. She was targeted because she asked questions. She said money was disappearing from the ledgers.  Inadvertently by photocopying  the ledgers and proving financial  corruption ........she uncovered a child sex ring - trafficking. ......  She realised higher people were involved in the money scam when she was targeted after she went whistleblowing to higher officials ....but not in her wildest dreams did she suspect that  children were involved..... That only came out in the full investigation..... She had appealed to central government....as a last resort. She heard of a death at the base - a suicide before she came. She was suspicious.   True whistleblowers are in danger now .......because perpetrators are protected by powerful people.

This is why I think - the water on the top of this worldly system looks acceptable (it has the appearance that it is not yet a complete lunatic asylum)  but when one peers one centimeter below the surface -  the world has become  a paranna tank.  First world countries, where a lot of money can be made, is now the same as third world countries, totally corrupt.  Child trafficking is up there with drugs in revenue.

Citizens are no longer protected. Daily people are knived to death in Europe..... officials know what is the problem is but refuse to acknowledge it or write about it in the press. It is a taboo subject. People shout the extremist words when killing Jews or infidels.... but the officials "still have to determine the reason".  With child trafficking it has become the same scenario. One investigative organization blames the other for not doing a good job. America has something like 18 organizations similar to FBI and they all pass the buck to one another when bad things do manage to surface....

Brave whistleblowers in the child care system are harrassed by law and even lose their homes, and put into institutions under false names so family members cannot find them.  I listened to a former child service official's story  a while back - what they did to her in UK was inconceivable. 

In Ireland and England I have heard of investigative reporters ending up dead.  I cant remember all the names but I do know one thing - the system is rotten to the core and good people or children  no longer have guaranteed protection.  The system is corrupt and you can inadvertantly step on someones toes.  By ending up in the child care system, the child may face a worse ordeal.

 Epsteins madam (who trained the young girls) and the other names in the black book - none have been brought to justice. The FBI has all the tapes he used to blackmail high officials. After Epstein's  convenient death it all died down.  It seems the entire bunch were connected to CIA, MI 5 and Mossad .....he was an asset of these organizations.... and part of the MKUltra type experiments on children. 

Do any of you know about MKULTRA?  Secret experiments by the US government on children?  To see what abuse does to them ?  MKULTRA is just one of many such projects where research psychiatrists were part of the problem....MI5 /6 and CIA,are linked....... but that is another subject. 

Do not be misled.  This world system is no longer based on the older biblical values. It is not what we believe it to be any longer.  

I try to stay close to jehovah and stay out of the world as much as possible.  I do believe to be informed....so I can warn friends and walk wisely..... but I want nothing to do with the world's filth.  The individuals who bring dishonor on Jehovahs name - well the bible tells us about the outcome of those who live double lives.

The law is the law - unmerciful, not compassionate, especially if you are poor or uninfluential.. .  If you are rich....or influential.....other laws apply - one can get away with more than murder..... 

Last note:  the secret investigative  organizations have become  so powerful. They claim anything as 'priviledged information'.   Consequently,  pockets within CIA have turned rogue and protect each other. They hide behind the statutes which protect their information.  

Organizations such as' judicial watch'  have a hard time to get information out of them.   They have to sue by law to get information they are entitled to. Then after two years (the limit to receive requested information)  they take them to court and can only  get "redacted" information. 

The corruption in some of these organizations is high because it has allowed powerful enclaves to develop within the military industrial complex and the secret investigative organizations. These people are like mafia - a law unto themselves.

Like Rome, the rot from within has been USA's downfall.  USA will soon no longer be the power it has been in the past.... then the eighth government will have power for a short time.....(as the bible indicates)  and the king of the north will control the wealth.   Daniel 11 from verse 40. These new governments will claim that their digital surveillance systems will lessen crime but it will become a highly controlled environment where those with power have full say (total power) over the ordinary   people's lives.

No doubt, child trafficking will still go on but governments will know all about it. I read recently that a 9 month baby fetus is worth 40,000 dollars.  I have no doubt that this is the reason behind the new laws.  China has been doing this since it's one child policy..... picking up pregnant women just before giving birth to a second child, removing the baby and sterilizing the parent and then just throwing the mother out anywhere on the street.  Listened to an interview made in China in secret. 

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Money can do other things, other

We all know that money does not buy happiness.  Not only the lawyer will get 10 mil. but the psychiatrists will make a bit too! 

 Excuse me for being cynical but the way people use drugs these days  to kill all pain, they most probably end up being able to party and afford some expensive drugs..... 

27 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

GB, that pretend they are Anointed, but, 'by

I am sure you know all about it! 

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

most cases, children won’t be removed from a home without clear indications the child is in danger. '

Do not be so naive about the world.  Child welfare services have been privatized just like the prisons.... and a lot of money is to be made....... and kn the side... child trafficking for sex.

I have listened to a few programs of cover ups regarding child trafficking and child homes being used for this - networks which cross borders.

They also take children away from vulnerable mothers .... listened to a case recently where they took a child away from a  mother who looked vulnerable..... she had to fight for her child but the child had already been sexually abused by the system.

Both in England and US there are some horror stories regarding  this scenario.  The world has changed - one cannot trust these authorities any more where money is to be made. Good investigative reporters are assassinated or for some reason commit suicide.....

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But then we can see that a lot of things 'inside JW Org' are wicked things too.  Not one human can be trusted. Its obvious why the scripture says 'Put not your trust in earthling man'. 

True - no organization is perfect .... there are always individuals who will let jehovah down.... but it does not mean that we are not his people.... we fulfill the prophecies.

3 hours ago, Anna said:

Trust your gut. If you suspect a child may be in danger, call 911 or call your State Child Abuse and Neglect Reporting Numbers".

A website also says:

"Whether out of fear of getting sued by the abuser for making false accusations, or a sense of not wanting to “get involved,” child abuse often goes undetected or unreported by those closest to it.

"Don’t worry about being sued for reporting child abuse. State programs receiving federal funds are required to provide immunity to people who make good-faith reports of child abuse or neglect".

"Persons who report suspected child abuse in go

Thrust your gut opens up the possibility of "mischief by law". .. just saying.   

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

person may imagine sexual scenarios, is this the Christian thing to do?

He was giving an example.... so what are u getting åt? 

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

seem to realise any seriousness in any thing I write

I definitively like to learn and listen but when contributors overreact constantly on every subject then a teaching moment has passed. 

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

definitely see a lack of love and  fellow feeling on this forum. 

Ditto.  

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

To think that your 'guidance' comes via the Watchtower which is not inspired of God and which is written by ordinary men who also have wrong desires it seems, having read lots of things on here which seem to go on at Bethel. And that your GB are more interested in their own position and the 'money in their bank accounts', than they are in people who have been wronged by your Org. But JWs still serve the Org blindly. Still putting their money in, and still trying to encourage others to be part of it

Accusations, accusations..... rather  read the bible. It will serve you better.  You are not going to learn anything healthy for your soul on this forum. This is a forum to stumble everyone  who may read all its accusations and some of the slander.  If you think this advice from me is hard-hearted..... please re-evaluate (I mean it sincerely). This is a pretty nasty place - satan's ideas being promoted openly by those who hate jehovah and JWs.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Are your GB / Writing Department / management / elders, really qualified to guide you?'  Well the scriptures say 'By their works you will know them'.  And it's a poor show right now. 

When last have you been to one of our meetings or read our magazines? Evaluate it for yourself - do not just judge.  Do not judge on what you read here! This is not a healthy place! 

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

over 20 years of information it shows fear in the GB and it's

Sorry to bring up an old topic but court case is now being fought because mormon church broke confidentiality. ....... it is a ' legal issue' to release confidential info.

Ask Congress to change this law or become an activist against this law.

7 hours ago, Kosonen said:

I don't want to dispute

Thanks for reply. Same here. I agree. Iron sharpens iron.... I like that.

I just read through Revelation 17 and 18 again and did not read anything about 3 and half years - I just had to make sure -again.  You mentioned this period where Christian's will be killed.

  The UN is already ruling like an image beneath everything.  10 kings have already willingly given over their autonomy (all in EU have) and they are included in the 176 nations who signed the agreements to bring one world order.

We are already in this time but most people are not aware. Religion is riding like a queen with these new agreements they are making in line with UN policy....to try for one world religion. Recently there was outrage in catholic circles because the Pope had south American native indian gods in the Vatican as part of the ceremonies during these pre-agreement meetings. By the way the religion of UN is theosophy and Bahai.... both have temple space in UN building.  Theosophy is a spiritistic religion and bahai believes all religions lead to God. Eleanor Roseveldt recited theosophy crede when UN was created.

Since Babylon the Great includes all false religion, I would historically equate drunken bloodshed to her....... Muslim wars, hindu/Muslim wars, the inquisition, crusades etc...... BUT  since Jesus has started ruling we have seen Christian fighting Christian in wars and Muslim genocides as well.  Muslim killing Muslim at present in Yemen with young children starving a slow death in horrific ways. Armenian genocide of Christian's comes to mind.  They were genocided only for being Christian.

However, in the past recent years I have been watching jihad murders all over the world and there is at present an extermination specifically of Christian's going on in north Africa and middle east. They are targeted by fellow citizens for being christian.  Absolutely nothing in the western news. As a matter of fact UK and Canada have denied Christian's entry because they were Christian. 

I have tried to make sense of this excessive killing myself to be able to deal with the sheer numbers and suffering going on.  I feel these Christian's  stay loyal to christ and refuse to give up their faith under pressure of death even while they do NOT understand the truth of the bible as they should.  Jehovah is righteous and just........ he is the great compensator and under his future government these persons will get a resurrection.  

I am almost sure we will see great governmental, financial and religious upheavals in the next three years - things can suddenly start to change rapidly. unprecedented changes and people will start to get faint out of fear....... but will they turn to jehovah? No. 

The environmental issues are also becoming more prevalent. The biosphere issues are coming to a head ...... we are close...... how close we do not know ..... but there are too many signs one cannot ignore.