Arauna

Agreed. But why did god call this city with great power over the earth and prostituted herself with the Kings of the earth "Babylon the great"? What happened in Babylon which is a parallel today? " Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God. (Adulteress- unfaithful one)...... this should be a hint that it is not a political entity but a religious one.

You were fortunate that JWInsider answered it for you..... but it does not mean you believe it.... having said something different earlier.

You have not answered my question - it seems you do not accept that the scriptures that were written later are inspired?

My personal opinion is that parents should report abuses if they are aware of it. Often they do get the option to report it but refuse because of the shame involved - especially if a family member was involved. Before 2007 many chose not to report sex abuse because the child could be cross examined in court by the prosecutor in the presence of the 'perpetrator.' This is a second trauma to the child. I think there has been enough debates on here about that!

I did not look at all of it... but it seems you did a lot of trouble to get it all out there. Thanks a lot. I will look at it when I have time.

Always suspicious. I am glad there are more registered companies...... if persecution comes on one, the others can still provide limited spiritual food.

Jesus gave them signs to recognize when the Roman's would be there in the holy place.......they had to be aware of the first Roman invasion to know they must flee before the second invasion would come..... but both if you believe we must not look at signs...... it is all spiritual... Just take the first one : Babylon the great - I researched it years ago. Read book if Hosea - I quote just a verses from Hosea 1 & 2: " Jehovah said to Ho·seʹa: “Go, marry a woman of prostitution and have children of prostitution, because by prostitution the land has turned completely away from following Jehovah." (Then jehovah speaks of Israel as his wife who was not faithful to him). Hosea 2: "Accuse your mother; accuse her,For she is not my wife and I am not her husband. She should remove her prostitution from herselfAnd her adultery from between her breasts," And to her sons I will not show mercy,For they are the sons of prostitution. 5 For their mother has committed prostitution.She who was pregnant with them has acted shamefully, for she said,‘I will go after my passionate lovers, Then she will say, ‘I will go back to my first husband,For I was better off at that time than I am now.’ 8 She did not recognize that it was I who had given her the grain, the new wine, and the oil,And I who had given her silver in abundanceAnd gold, which they used for Baʹal I will put an end to all her joy,Her festivals, her new moons, her sabbaths, and all her festive seasons. will hold an accounting against her for the days when she offered sacrifices to the Baʹal images,When she would adorn herself with her rings and ornaments and would chase after her passionate lovers,And I was the one she forgot,’ declares Jehovah From the above scriptures it is clear that Israel committed religious prostitution. She was supposed to represent the true God (be faithful to jehovah like a wife to a husband) but went after lovers. In Revelation 17 we see a great prostitute who says she represents God but also has lovers, amongst others - the kings of the earth. This, marriage between religion and politics started in ancient Babylon. There are many places in the bible that a prostitute symbolises those who profess to represent God but are like a prostitute. So what about this can you not accept?

Correct me if I am wrong? So you do NOT believe that the bible is inspired? I quote 1 TIm 3:16 which you say JWs misquote: (my capitals) "ALL Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

The accent here is he created it 'for him'. Who is this referring to? Read this quote from hebrews 1: "Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he (god) has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high So did Jesus become part of God when he went back to heaven? Or did he sit at his right hand? Verse 2 above indicates that God appointed Jesus to do these things. Hebrews 1 goes on from verse 6 "For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”? 6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him Keep in mind that the word "father " means "life-giver". So while Jesus created all other things he received life from God as the firstborn of creation and after his death he was the first creation of god to receive immortality as a reward for his faithfulness. Verse 9 goes on to say the following about Jesus: "You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions." The emphases I wish to highlight here are the words "your god". Hebrews 1 :13 "But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? Jesus was the archangel before he came to earth ... and the scripture above refers to him after he went back to heaven.

JWs teach that the sanctification of Jehovahs 'righteousness' is most important. (Jehova is the indisputable sovereign - he need not prove it to anyone because he alone has the power to enforce it.) Jehovahs name must be cleared from the accusation from satan that his sovreignty is a selfish or unjust (unrighteous) sovereignty. Satan accused God of withholding knowledge of making their own moral decisions from Adam/Eve. Being independent from God would serve them better. Satan knew that God is just and would allow for the accusation to be tested. God does not break his own righteousness. Satan did not challenge the power if God because he would lose this argument. He challenged the righteousness of Jehovahs rule. Jehovahs way of ruling is the best way...... and we will all discover this in the new system when we all bring glory to God by letting our ego go and following Jehovahs principles of unselfish love. Jehovah is humble and righteous - and we will reflect these qualities perfectly in future. Jehovah gave the ' best he had' (jesus) to save us from calamity. It was painful for him when his son died even though he knew he could resurrect him. It was the fact that his son had to go through that agony while being righteous. Jehovahs righteousness will be vindicated because of his unselfish love. Our love for him changes over time as we realize that Jehova is always righteous. While he promises us a reward - I agree with you my brother...... our unselfish love will take us to death for Jehovah - without expecting a reward. If we only live for the reward and not the love and justice/righteousness, mercy it represents - then our unselfishness needs some work. The love of jehovah and Jesus never includes death. God wants no-one to die but all to be saved. The whole earth was designed with man in mind. Satan is the father of death. This is not a contest (chess game) between the power of god and satan. It is about the love and righteousness of God and the death, chaos and destruction which independence from God brings to all creatures.

While individuals can be happy in this world because they draw close to God and experience his approval, the entire creation will only in future be really happy and thus bring glory to God by living according to his laws of love as he originally planned. So true, each person must realize they cannot step into the space of another person and violate his rights. Self-sacrificing love (not only love) can do this. When I care more for you than myself and you care more for me than yourself..... this way of thinking will shift the entire societies' outlook on life. At present, people who really show this kind of love are viewed as weak and most people think they are impractical - especially when it comes to asserting yourself, defence etc. A wonderful thought. .... and same love for all neighbours. Soon all Christians will be tested for our love for God...... as this world becomes more wicked we will be forced to compromise on those very laws/ principles given byJehovah by condoning immoral practices which have become acceptable to the world.

Correct, you need not listen to me but do not use me as an excuse either. You all are totally free to do and believe as you like. Just be aware - there are people on this forum who do not use scripture in context and sometimes use it as a weapon for open warfare against JWs/GB. Their intentions are open and clear in what they say. RECOGNIZE it, when they accuse us of being false prophets, controlling, etc. There are also the more sophisticated ones who use philosophies of this world in their reasonings. Recognize this as well. Every person will only be accounrable for him/herself.

The music is beautiful. Look up on internet.

No - they do not. Here is something to think about: we do not believe humans have an immortal soul. Most churches believe in the immortality of the soul. The bible says "the ' soul' that sinneth it shall die" ezekiel 18:4. The prophecy about Jesus's death in Isaiah 53 ( last verses) indicates jesus would put his "soul" in death. He was mortal. Jesus received 'immortality' from his father as a reward for obedience until death. The bible promises immortality and incorruptability to those who are baptized in the death of Jesus. They do not have immortality BEFORE they die. There is a difference between living forever and immortality. Satan was mortal - when he sinned God said he would destroy him in future. He will never exist again. Adam was mortal but would have lived forever if he obeyed God. Adam's everlasting life depended on his obedience to jehovah. This is huge difference between JWs and all other cristian denominations because churches talk about the randsom sacrifice but do not accept that Jesus really died- that he did not exist for three days. His father Jehovah (who is immortal and cannot die) restored Jesus' life to him after three days and gave him his own source of life - immortality. They (christian churches) tell you Jesus died ....but in same breath say he was immortal before his death. They say he was God. They believe all people have a soul that goes out when the person dies and goes directly fo heaven or hell.....but why would God bring someone back from heaven to be resurrected...... when this does not fit in with what the bible teaches in other places? If one does not exercise faith in the randsom sacrifice then one cannot be saved. It is crucial to understand the randsom...properly....... So what does the bible say about the soul? Eccl 3:19 & 20 says that people die like an animal - we go to dust and do not exist any longer in any form until the (father - which means life-giver) resurrects us. Eccl 9:5 & 10 indicates the dead cannot think or do anything in death. No knowledge, planning nor wisdom. God made Adam from dust. Adam could not think before he became a living soul - dust cannot think. God blew life into him and he became a living soul Gen 2: 7 After his sin, God said he would go back to dust - the same condition he was in before he was created. Gen 3: 19. So this is why JWs study this and related subjects in depth.... as a people we have lots of faults but we teach the truth about "what the bible really says". Just an added thought: Christian genocide is going on in middle east and north Africa. The press is not writing about the Muslim killings. These Christian's are dying like flies. I believe God will give them resurrection because death is a payment for sin; and, despite having little knowledge of jehovah and Jesus they have proved their loyalty. They are some of the 'unrighteous ' who will get a resurrection in future and be taught the truth about jehovah Acts 24:15 "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous"

Now that is another false prophecy to add to the others you have uttered. Only JWs? Really? As I have said before your emotional opposition blinds you to reality and makes you say unwise things. Do you ever look at what you say? Do you believe that your righteousness is so great you can condemn all JWs? Your zealousness reminds me of the jihadis who will wear a vest of destruction in its condemnation of those who do not agree with their extreme religiosity. Have you read this illustration properly? It is in Matt 19. It indicates that the weeds were sown in time of apostles and were not completely removed. These weeds would multiply and would only be removed after their fruits were fully visible in time of end. What were these weeds sown by Satan? Well the apostles had to fight against the Greek ideas that were infiltrating the congregations. Apart from approving immorality by allowing gross sins in the congregation (which Paul often spoke out against) there are many pagan ideas in the christian denominations today that can be traced back through the Greeks to ancient Babylon such as triad gods, triad devils, the immortality of the soul, and many more teachings that are prevalent in most Christian denominations today. These denominations are part of the world-wide organised religions which is called Babylon the Great in Revelation 17 & 18. Most religions on earth today believe in the immortality of the soul which gave birth to the teaching if hellfire, reincarnation, nirvana, ancestor worship, kabbalah...etc. You assume too much on what I believe. Do you know what the mark if the beast is? Because you apparently know and are now prophesying that we all will have this mark. I have met many evangelicals who think like you. They literally think that God only speaks to them and they believe the entire bible is only spiritual. They actually believe that Jesus' death was not litteral but only spiritual I cannot understand this kind of thinking .... even if I try. You are either off on abberation or delusional about what JWs believe....

Satan will not be able to deceive those who stay close to jehovah and read the scriptures in an undertone day and night. There are many indications in the bible that we will be able to discern signs I.e. when the image of the beast receives power, when they call "peace and security" and many more. I watch world events to see if the UN are getting into position to do these actions. Yes indeed! Why did jehovah give prophecies about beasts which represented Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, anglo- American world powers.......UN or coalition of nations (image of the beast) and eighth kingdom? So we do not have to read these prophecies at all and ignore them and sit online separated from Jehovahs people and believe ourselves to be holy. We should never watch the news but go online and mislead others with our weak understanding of what is going on around us. God expects us to be vigilant - not foolish. Daniel would not have discerned the end of the 70 years and expected a change in rulership if he did not read the scriptures, make calculations and watched for signs.. ... in satans world.....of fulfillment. And jesus' disciples would not have discerned the "disgusting thing" in the holy place.....when Rome (part of Satan's world) came the first time and then a second time. They would have ignored the first attack of Rome and said "we are not to look for signs" .....they would have ignored the events of wars and acts of terror around them, earthquakes, etc. and waited till God sent a thunderbolt from heaven to warn them. .... that this first Roman attack was the "sign". .... "Sign of lightning" The Jews did not accept jesus as the messiah but would go running after false christs..... because they were expecting an earthly kingdom with an earthly visible king. Jesus went on to explain to them that he - the future king is already in their midst . As sure as lightning is visible from east to west , they would fully understand when the kingdom is present/perousia. Matthew refers to the end of the Jewish system and has greater application in time of end as it speaks of the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen, the preaching in entire world, a slave that would feed the domestics etc. Just as we discern when a fruitree is flowering and is a sign that the fruits would soon appear - we can discern when conditions are changing to bring forth conditions leading to the situation called Armageddon.

In Sweden mine was on a Monday and watchtower on Saturday. True. Evolutionists hate the big bang because it points to a "beginning". It may have been a controlled big bang because the elements that formed all have order and specific patterns emerge.

Agreed. While many gods were related to the cycles of the agricultural land to provide seasonal food.....one must keep in mind that these gods were all part of the star and planet worship. Each God had a celestial body linked to it with its oracles and divination. The king had to ensure that the stars, birds, sticks lined up and liver divination were in confirmation before he undertook any major task. Each day started with these rituals. I looked up kingship on Google to find the explanation of how important the priest-king and this ritual/procession of akitu was. This ritual in ancient Mesopotamia influenced the entire ancient world for at least two millennia. Assyria had many of its kings confirmed in Babylon or followed similar rituals in their own city-states. I will put the quote below before I close. I recall how Alexander the Great offered a bull at temple of Amun in Egypt and was confirmed as a Pharoah with great ritual, then he went into the desert to confirm his kingship at the Oracle of Amun. Superstition was the means by which people lived in those days and rituals to gods, shrines, predictions, divination and spells were daily occurrences. Kings had to be confirmed by the gods of the city-state to be accepted by the people. Cyrus the great did the same in Babylon. He had to be confirmed as supreme ruler of the entire region to have the gods (and people)) smile upon him with favor. The kings were priests and kings - and one cannot forget that. The priests were powerful but the high king-priest took the lead in festival of akitu as this represented the ritual of the God of the city and of major importance was to be reappointed as the king. The two- year nature of this festival may explain why cyrus was only installed as the king of the four corners of the earth in 538 BCE and not in 539 BCE. One must also keep in mind that Nabonidus did not partake of these rituals which caused the people to superstitiiously fear that "evil" would come upon the city. Beltshazzar may have stood in for his father at Akitu but the people viewed it as treachery for Nabonides to go and build a temple to the moongod in Tema. A similar event happened in the time when Pharoah Akhenaten brought in a new sungod during his reign. The people hated him and the people feared retaliation from the gods. The babylonian king, in ritual , humbled himself before the people and then his kinghip was restored to him by the "heavens" and culminated by sleeping with the " queen of the heavens " at the temple which was on top of the ziggurat / tower of Babel (which had been beautifully restored in time of Nebuchadrezzar 2). His kingship was restored to him by the highest God of city. The position of king-priest was crucial to keep relations harmonius etween heavenly gods and earthly beings - their mentality cannot in any way be compared to modern logical thinking. Fear and superstition ruled supreme. Ritual and religiosity was the norm - one had to fear the gods. I recall that Socrates had to commit suicide because people in Athens believed he was impious because he offended certain gods, especially Zeus. Here is the quote about kingship in Mesopotamia: According to the present state of knowledge, the most ancient form of kingship is connected to the birth of an urban society in the Low Mesopotamia toward the end of the fourth millennium bce. A rich stock of technical experience from the Chalcolithic era, certain favorable ecological and climatic changes, and an increase in population contributed to the birth of the first city, Uruk (perhaps an analogous yet independent process started in High Mesopotamia). This process was connoted by the creation of a bureaucratic apparatus and by the hierarchical partition of depersonalized work. However, it is not possible to obtain any direct information about the form of government of this society. Notwithstanding the privileged condition afforded by the great amount of written documents discovered, it is yet not possible—due to the characteristics of the texts themselves—to adequately answer any questions on fundamental topics related to Mesopotamian kingship. The whole Mesopotamian civilization constantly strove to conform human society to the model offered by the divine world. In the pantheon, below the remote heaven god An was Enlil (Lord Wind), who, as the only one who could touch the unreachable sky of his father, An, played a very forceful role on earth. Enlil was the king of all gods, and they would travel to his see, his temple in Nippur, to draw from him his superior divine power. Under his rule, the demiurge god, Enki, ascribed specific tasks to every single divinity, each of whom had his see in a particular city. Enlil (named "the trader" for his mediating function) constituted the paradigm of kingship: from their various sees and tasks the gods were unified under his authority and, through him, could reach—albeit in an indirect way—the summit of the sky. In the same way, the king, being the vertex of society, acted as the point of contact between the latter and the world of the gods. Wolfgang Heimpel presented a theory (1992), based on consistent clues, about the passage from a form of a kingship, which was temporally limited and elective (by means of oracles, related to the royal title en ), to a dynastic form, legitimized by royal birth (related to the royal title lugal). Sumerian literature explicitly states that kingship, besides being of divine origin because it descends from the heaven of the gods, makes possible civilization, the acme of which resided in worship (the relationship with the gods) and justice (the preservation of the order the gods wanted). Humanity, being the consignee of such an important gift, must certainly play a central role in the universe. Various anthropogonic myths tell how humans were created from the gods in order to relieve the inferior divinities from the trouble of running the cosmos. The human task, therefore, is a task of divine level, and it was with this aim that man had been brought into being by mixing clay with the flesh and blood of a killed god. The sovereign is, therefore, he who leads society towards the realization of the divine design, which is made known to him by means of divinatory practices: according to one tradition, the primeval sovereigns were the keepers of the divinatory science (Lambert, 1967). In relation to the gods, the king is thus the vertex of humanity. The reign is therefore thought of as an ordered area (cosmos), departing from a "center"—the point where the horizontal surface of the world of men meets the vertical axis elevating to the heaven of the gods; it is this connection that defends the reign (i.e., cosmos) against the unruliness of chaos. The breaking of this axis causes the collapse of the kingdom's defenses, thereby allowing the devastating forces of chaos to rush in. As is unequivocally clear, this "center" is represented on a social level by the temple (the see of the city-god) and by the king. In this context the king is seen as the steward of the god housed in the temple. It is the god who is the veritable owner of the kingdom. Thus, the building of his temple is the culminating point of the king's activity, and the king demonstrates in this way that he has achieved the god Enki/Ea's knowledge (Matthiae, 1994) after having first established justice, enlarged the cosmos or contained chaos (all errands exalting his solar character)"

You have lost the thread of our discussion. I used this experience as an example to prove that Sarah did NOT believe because she did NOT have evidence. Later when her promise was fulfilled both she and Abraham had clear evidence that Jehovahs promise about " all nations would be blessed " (jesus as seed) would come true. So when God wanted abraham to sacrifice isaac - he had true faith based on the clear EVIDENCE of reality he had seen fulfilled before..... of life to be restored. Today we can see consistency in Jehovahs promise regarding the future government under Jesus. We can follow the timeline of rulerships that were predicted and many more prophecies which give Evidence that jehovah's plans are still on track and being fulfilled exactly on time! The unseen EVIDENCE is there! The timelines are there for evidence that jehovah is still administering his purpose / restoration plan of the earth. This is why I have such a keen interest in fulfillment of all prophecy and the time-lines connected to them. It proves the bible to be a reality! There is no doubt in my mind that 1914 is correct when one studies the proohecies connected to the timeline of the beast heads and when the kingdom would appear. I am not rude by not responding.... I want to schedule a block time to read your contribution and think about it. I like your thought above. We can learn from each other without nasty rhetoric. I am looking at what you wrote and will respond later with my thoughts. I unfortunately moved around a lot and left some of my best books behind in USA and other countries as my load became lighter and lighter. I only kept one or two books which I will not find again. So I write from memory. Thanks for your effort.... I appreciate it.

Sarah laughed because she did not believe life in old woman's womb was possible. When it happened - their faith in God was strengthened because the promise was fulfilled about promised birth. Unseen evidence in reality. But the promise of Messiah was thru the line of isaac. Now God wanted Abraham to offer up isaac. They believed god could raise up isaac again to fulfill this promise based on the EVIDENCE they saw before in life - that God could restore life to a dead womb. They must have told Isaac over and over the story of his birth and angel's promise from God. So isaac also had faith that God could restore his life. This was based on the evidence of the unseen "reality" that God had restored Sarah's womb to give life to have him born.

I replied above: I am happy that we are now called Jehovahs Witnesses because it brings honor to God's name and we are therefore distinct from all other Christian denominations by our loyalty to person of jehovah God. I am happy that we do not cling to the cult of persona. There was a tendency of old for people to do this as in case of Russel and Rutherford. There is a need to distribute the same choice of "food" to everyone world-wide. A brother in Uzbekistan must have the same food available for meetings as in Kenya. For this to happen there is a need for central translation and distribution services. Practical reasons drove the centralization of services. A Jewish scholar set out to collect extant manuscripts where the pronouncement of jehovahs name is indicated by th point system. So far he has collected over 1000 from museums all over the world where they were hidden. Many bible names such as Jeho-saphat, jeho-ram etc. also contain the name of the true god. Hallelu-jah. The pronunciation is correct....... but the use of this name is even more important than the pronunciation.

I agree with first part of the statement. What we see happening in the world is an added bonus because it confirms what we understand from the scriptures such as: " lift up your heads when you see these things"...... When we see what Jehovah predicted happening in real time we have additional reason to rejoice apart from having the regular gratitude and joy for " knowing" him.

The original "white guys" Caucasians, come from this area. Armenia (neighbour) was part of ancient kingdom of Urartu. Turkey took mount Ararat from Armenia during the genocide period I believe but one can still see it from the Armenian capital city, Yerevan In the museum, I saw a massive cauldron which was taken from Assyria in time of Sargon 2. Georgian language and Armenians see themselves as related peoples. Of course throughout the history they were taken over by Turks, arabs, Russians etc which influenced the culture. These two countries are strong orthodox Christians and managed to retain this. I think the mountains assisted them to fight back invaders successfully. Mountains everywhere....... even modern warfare has problems with mountains (as in Afghanistan).

No I just did a normal risk assessment of the threats to the earth and its population and realized that the bible is absolutely spot-on in its prophecies. Jehovah will definitely step in before we ruin it completely - so to look at certain milestones we have reached is practical. Based on evidence....... For example: Isaac had faith that jehovah could resurrect him if he allowed his father to sacrifice him. His father had faith based on evidence . Did he just blindly believe? Definitely NOT. He had "evidence" . He knew that his mother was beyond the age to bear children and jehovah revived her womb to produce his life. Jehovah could give him life again. True, Abraham knew that the promise would come through isaac and he had seen evidence of jehovah in his life before.

A lot of culture here and many of the tribes can tell you stories where they come from. They drink beer too - a lot...... but wine is their forte.. it is a 4000 year tradition and they have approx 525 different grape varieties!