Arauna

26 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You think the Holy Spirit only flows with those who think vegetarian thoughts, and through encouraging people?

No. 

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

reply was "Kill them all, and let God sort them out!".

Does that sound like righteous justice?  This is collectivist justice - which commies like and people who do not respect individual rights of people.  They define groups of people and give them a label and then get rid of them!   

Anti-LGBT will soon be such a group.  Jesus- lovers may soon be such a group, jehovah- lovers may soon be such a group etc.

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

PLEASE quote at least the complete sentence

I wish I could ..... I have arthritis in my hands and I am battling to highlight sentences on the pad. I have to move the wrist to copy and these movements are too large. Most of my time goes into trying to copy..... it is frustrating. This is why I now just write quickly how I speak - just correct the barest necessity.  Apologies...... I must be frustrating the lot of you.  Soon I will disappear again for a while.  I do only come on here intermittendly.

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

So JW Org is no better than the Catholic church in many ways. After all, some on here often compare JW Org with other religions, saying that they all suffer the same problems. 

We are all in this world and there are fleshly people/individuals who follow human desires and spiritual people who follow god's desires / purpose for us.  When people become fleshly after knowing God -  they follow their own human desires.......a most common phenomena  everywhere on earth and this thinking overcomes  JW individuals too!

This is where any comparison with the Catholic church ends.  Our teachings differ like night and day. I will not repeat all the babylonian dogmas in the churches.

 You critisize us for shunning those who commit gross sins in one breath and then go on  to say we are similar  to churches who openly allow LGBTQ?    Please disect your own responses....

1 hour ago, the Sower of Seed said:

to.The clergy elevate themselves over the common parishioners as the Jewish priesthood did, this is the opposite that the GB has done. The

True, clergy are worshipped. Rabbis and Imams have such a hold over their people. In Islam they fear each other as well as their leaders because killing of  a "hypocrite"  is accepted practice.

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I'm not learning anything encouraging on here lately

Have you offered anything encouraging?  I have only seen mocking from you.... No prob of course .... you have a right to your opinions  ... all of us will be held accountable for what we do with our freedom in the end.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Not from me maybe, but probably from others here. 

Very true!  I like to learn new things...... from JW and non-JW. 

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

is not sin against God or Christ that your Elders worry about, it is 'sin' against the JW Org. 

We do not worry about people who are not brothers and sin.  But the bible indicates (quoted scripture before) that we must stop mixing with "brothers" who become wicked.   

Unfortunately, people immediately blame JW.org when individuals do bad things in secret and they do not act fast enough...... but they do not act without sufficient evidence - which also is criticized.  

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

others have been allowed back in only to do it all over again. 

This is a problem which social workers and therapists also face. This is the realities of the real world.  Prisons lock them up for 2 years or more and then they are out back on the street..... So what would your solution be?  Shoot them all? Castrate them?  Or what.....   Social workers used to put children back into the home of the perpetrator..... until that did not work out in all cases. However there may be cases where people may change..... would you like to judge and decide which ones will be rehabilitated?  Which ones should receive mercy?  How does one know? 

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

never said they were. Oh

An anointed could be an elder but not all were. Today not all anointed are elders. So they are not the same thing. 

I REST the case.....

2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

totally missing the point, but that is because you see it as just support. 

If if people of other religions assist me I do not treat them suspiciously  - that was the point.

2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Anointed Christians must also pass the fleshly barrier that separates them from access to God’s presence in heav

Exactly!  They will be priests in heaven! Not on earth! The flesh was the barrier

Revelation 20: 1-3 7,8  speaks of those people who come through the great tribulation  here on EARTH.  "Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years.  3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while.       .......Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison,  8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.

These people on earth are NOT priests who already have received immortality and incorruptability....... because they will be tested as perfect people at end of 1000 years. They will have the same tests as Adam did as perfect person.

17 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

that could not be BETTER explained by just plain coincidence or serendipity.

Just ONE, out of the billions of experiences people have, or know about.

I  believe this request of yours refutes the argument..... and is unreasonable. Do you understand why?

A miracle is always something which is unexplained and often seems like serendipity or coincidence. .... And often, jehovah's interventions seems like unexpected miracles.  That is what a miracle is. Unexplained beneficial change of circumstance or unbelievable event. 

I think my example met that criteria. .... You think not.  So I think you want more than a miracle..... which will be hard to find unless God spoke from heaven himself and said he caused it to happen. 

If you study the bible you will find that most miracles/interventions  from jehovah fulfilled a purpose. Never ever was his miracles not part if his purpose. A good example was the 10 plagues. 

Soon the world will see that Jehovah exists.  Usually his worshippers are quick to see his interventions and as in case of Pharoah , unbelievers take longer, or remain blind.

At Armageddon, the globe will "know he is Jehovah" because the coincidences will be irrefutable! 

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

they could well be leading a clean life. But they are still shunned.

I have had such a case in our family.  At first the person was not shunned but later the behaviour and attitude did become so bad and wicked that no-one wanted to mix with them. Of course it is never the person's own fault - it is always the witnesses who  are at fault, who think they are holy....

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

Jesus himself ate with Tax Collectors and sinners. He

We also go out and preach to tax collectors and sinners and I have eaten with them and had coffee with them.  But if you had read the scriptures quoted above properly , you will see it refers to "brothers" who do  sinful  things. The scripture says to "stop' associating with them. 

So if you had previously been a brother and your lifestyle becomes wicked then we would also stop associating with you.  

2 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

that you are using the ANOINTED of the 1st Century to make a point about the modern day Elders that are not anointed or inspired. 

Not all anointed were elders in first century. So your argument backfires.  

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And she directs people to the Insight Book, which of course is JW Org beliefs /

I am not ashamed of that my dear. I have learnt nothing from you which has given me reason to doubt the JWs.  

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JW's you personally know, who did or doing this and you decide not to greet them?

Only cases  which are proven.   If one adheres to Jehovahs laws one cannot judge without evidence.  Even in secular courts one is not found guilty if there is insufficient evidence.  That is justice. 

26 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Maybe you enjoy those people looking over your shoulder and nudging you to

I am not a weakling, I stand on my own two feet. However, I appreciate it when someone shows me a kindness and gives help. I am not  suspicious of  kind acts just because people  are JW or not of my faith.

22 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

forgive and try to repair any damage

If a person stops unacceptable sins then yes- he is immediately accepted back.  The guilt is not on those who follow through on Jehovahs instructions but on the one who is sad.  HE must try to repair any damage not the elders.

Is he sad because his ego was damaged because he was discovered and exposed for wrongdoing or was he sad because he was really repentant. Sometimes people want to sit on both sides of the fence and still get pity so they can go on doing what they were doing.

If a person is really repentant they will ask to be reinstated.  They will not wilfully go on with brazen behaviour and expect the world to turn to them.

Elders always act kindly when someone asks to come back or work with elders to come back.  They will not let such a person become overly sad.

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

submitting to God's authority through 
Jesus Christ. No he submitted to the GB's Org

If he did submit himself  to Jesus then he would not have committed adultery or some other gross sin in the first place.  He would not commit a gross sin and would have shown repentance. 

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

have official doctrine that is opposite of your beliefs in this. Tru

Well, we see no more rising from death, gifts like healing of people -  so yes, I agree with our doctrine that these miracles were signs which assisted the first century congregation to be established and for people to put faith in christ. 

Hebrews 2:3  how will we escape if we have neglected so great a salvation? For it began to be spoken through our Lord and was verified for us by those who heard him,  4 while God joined in bearing witness with signs and wonders and various powerful works and with the holy spirit distributed according to his will

But to say that jehovah does not fulfill his prophecies is a lie.   I specifically used a modern day prophecy about the world-wide preaching work which came about after the brothers were set free and the slave came to be. Matt 24:14 & 45

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

not said precisely enough

1 cor 5: 5  you must hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough

11. But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.  12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside,   while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”

This is just in one chapter...... 

17 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Maybe in other places.

Lol. .... I have met many....... in USA and other places..... 

11 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

two jw guys had to be present and hovering anytime the doctor came in to discuss procedures and we had plenty of family there already, so their presence was not needed. 

Maybe they came to assist. How did they know the person was in hospital?   One of your family members must have notified them and they came to assist.....

You saw it as the FBI coming to spy and check up on you..... it is your own perception it seems. Therefore the resentment..... 

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

without a solid, irrefutable example to back it up.

If you mean a scientific experiment where the same situation arises and we get the same lab results - no.  Life is not like that.  The situations differ. 

The example I mentioned was when brothers received a 6 year prison sentence and then suddenly were set free - very unexpectedly when they thought all was lost.

 You may not regard it as evidence but I do.  I cannot phone jehovah to find out if he really helped them or not but in the light of prophecy and how they afterwards conducted themselves, I do accept it as timely intervention...... for a purpose.  To accept the responsibility of preaching and teaching world wide Matt 24:14.

I do not see every beneficial coincidence as intervention by God just as I do not see spontaneous regression of cancer as intervention by God.

However,  I have seen Jehovahs assistance and mercy in my own life and therefore believe it is possible - even in a very public way to fulfill the prophecy of matt 24:14. Who is doing this work on a world-wide scale today? When did it start?  When was it stopped .......and how and when was new life blown into the preaching work?  After 1919? 

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

just wanted to give a lesson about shunning.

Don't agree -   we can treat anyone we meet in life in kindly way.  But the bible says we must not greet or eat with those who have  rejected Jehovahs ways.  So this is not a stranger on the road but someone you personally know.

And now we go back to this subject :- people are only shunned when they have shown a stubbornness to proceed with brazen behaviour and keep on course to practice whatever they are doing. 

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

am sorry but i have to react. You suggesting here, how robbers in this illustration are not Jews,

Read again what I said.  We would hope that they were not Jews. Not always the case. See quote below.

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

hopefully only foreigners did this and not fellow Israelites.  Alas this was not always the case.  

Jesus was hung on a stake next to a robber .

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Certainly Joe and probably Mickey was able to overcome any distaste for “organization” to appreciate

Thanks for these insights.  Yes people have their flaws and in my experience, having high secular jobs can give one a kinda priviledged outlook to life.  One can have this attitude at work but not amongst  brothers.

I have a very friendly personality (personable voice - I sang opera) and a very inquisitive streak about ....everything.  BUT I never talk about other people - just subjects.  I have noticed as a woman that I have to be careful to not come across as being smart.  I do not think I am smart - I am interesting..... lol.

But one can easily get yourself in a fix....... so I am very alert regarding this.  I keep my place.  However, I do not tolerate any form  of discrimination.  I speak up but choose my time very carefully.   I think this discretion has come with age and it serves me well where ever I go.

I have no problem with authority. When I earned a good salary, I used to ask my husband when I wanted to spend my own money on things outside the normal budget - such as getting his permission to give money to a struggling sister.  Why did I do this? Because I believe it builds trust. My husband may have depended on it for something else. He trusts me and knows I will never act independently.

Recently, I gave this advice to a young sister, newly married. Do not act independently, be obedient, respectful and build trust.  Why can't  some men not work on these qualities in the congregation?  I think men have larger egos than women -  which can be a major obstacle in being humble and eeking out a comfortable place for themselves in the congregation. 

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

may be that you do not, but what you do so closely resembles it that no one can tell the difference.

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Knowing the difference between

There is a line one does not cross when it comes to loyalty.  The line is when one looks like an opposer...... then you have gone too far.  I have seen this happen on this forum where on thinks one is speaking to an opposer because their ideas have strayed so far from the truth...... and then you find out they do still attend meetings.   

I have noticed here that some are so careful to see both sides that they get their loyalty to jehovah mixed up with secularism and all other kinds of other worldly ideas.

I knew a brother in USA who had an extremely quirky personality and his ways were sometimes unacceptable to others. He was a good man but struggled to bring his personality in line - to control his really offbeat way of looking at life.  He had grown up in an orphanage and had a lot of issues .....and it showed.

I liked him but struggled to relate to him at times.  

We all know we have to try to accept others with their warts and flaws...... but it is hard when one detects disloyalty to Jehovah and the truth.  Yes we are a very imperfect nation with all kinds if weird personality traits as individuals because we all carry baggage from our lives (before and after becoming witnesses).  

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

well without my help in

They are human - just like you.  Bring me anyone on earth who has not shot themselves in both feet on occasion