Arauna

Thanks for piece. I agree, they do call out 'manipulation '  on the flimsiest of excuses...... because they do not want to use the word 'accountability' when it comes to every persons  own choices. They then,  act like victims which seems to be the mainstream's / secular mental attitude these days..... 
Yes, we are moldable clay - only by Jehovah....and you must be a willing participant....... to work only on yourself...
Children,  and especially teenagers, rebel extremely quickly  if they are boxed in..... They do not like restictions and they are taught an independent and secular way of thinking in the school.... The true manipulators is the education system with its LGBTQ etc. .... So the argument that the children are 'victims' of JWs is just another ploy or a 'manipulation' of the truth....... 

Since Jehovah’s Witnesses deny blood transfusion on religious grounds and liver transplantation is historically related to potential massive perioperative blood loss, therefore, Jehovah’s Witnesses represent a great clinical challenge when indicated to this procedure, and keeping this in mind, researchers undertook this retrospective review to define a perioperative management pathway with strategies toward a transfusion-free environment, to ultimately afford not only liver transplant to selected Jehovah’s Witnesses patients but also to translate this practice to all general surgical procedures. They analyzed data for Jehovah’s Witnesses patients who had liver transplantation at their Institution. A preoperative red cell mass optimization package and the intraoperative use of normovolemic haemodilution, veno-venous bypass and low central venous pressure were included in the perioperative multimodal strategy to liver transplantation in Jehovah’s Witnesses. Among 13 Jehovah’s Witness patients who underwent liver transplantation, 4 developed acute kidney injury (one needed extracorporeal renal replacement therapy) and one required vasoactive medications to support blood pressure for the first 2 postoperative days. Re-laparotomy was performed on 2 patients. One-year follow-up revealed 12 alive recipients and the death of one because of septic complications. Experts concluded that liver transplantation, when performed at a very experienced centre and using a multidisciplinary approach, can be feasible and safe in selected Jehovah’s Witnesses patients, as confirmed by the findings.
https://www.mdlinx.com/journal-summaries/liver-transplantation-jehovah-witnesses-bloodless-medicine/2020/02/04/7604698/?spec=surgery

The speaker’s wife gave one of the first comments at the Watchtower Study—on the very first paragraph. It sort of fit, since the theme was on making wise decisions and following through. Still, she ‘shoehorned’ it in a bit—it wasn’t a perfect fit. She said how she had not been manipulated to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses—it had been her own choice and one that she did not regret.
Well, who said that she had been manipulated?—that’s why the comment had an artificial flavor to it—the paragraph itself contained no hint of it. Furthermore, pushing the limits of the 30-second goal for comments, put in place so no one loquacious person steals the show, she found it the stupidest notion in the world for anyone to suggest that. Manipulation? How ridiculous.
Plainly, someone had thrust that idea at her recently, maybe some sorehead that she had run across at work or among the neighbors—that it is no more than manipulation with Jehovah’s Witnesses—that’s why they believe and act as they do. It is the classic technique of the mainstream bully—to assert that one couldn’t possibly depart from the ordinary unless they had been manipulated to do so, and “unfairly” manipulated at that—had the “manipulation” been in that bully’s direction, there would be no problem with it.
You can apply this to anything. The reason you bought a Chevy is that you were manipulated by their ads. The reason you cheered for the 49ers is that you were manipulated by San Francisco. The reason you went to college is that you were manipulated by the guidance counselor. The reason that you died for your country is that you were manipulated by that country to think the cause noble—nobody of any other country thought so. 
Really, Jehovah’s Witnesses least fit the accusation of manipulation, because they, unlike the above examples, represent persons who were actively searching—they were anything but moldable pieces of dough. They were dissatisfied with the status quo, dissatisfied with where life was heading, dissatisfied with the goals society set before them, and they took upwards of a year looking over a new model, weighing and trying it on for size, before committing to it. All this was done in familiar surroundings without leaving trusted routine—as opposed to the above examples of college and military, in which one is immersed 24/7 in unfamiliar settings, a classic tool of manipulators.
Well, if you are going to talk manipulation, talk it with something that counts. That’s why I liked Mark Sanderson kicking back at the petty application of manipulation with a major one. In his annual meeting talk about not being fearful, he quoted Hebrews 2:15, that “through [Jesus’] death [God] might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, and that he might set free all those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death.”
Sanderson cited the Nuremberg trials, in which various Nazis who had committed unspeakable atrocities were asked the simple question, “How could you do those terrible things?” “What did they say?” he asked, and then related the answer they had given: “We had no choice. If we didn’t obey they would put us to death.” 
“Those people could be manipulated,” Sanderson said. “They could be controlled. They could be made to do the most wicked things because they were afraid.” Exactly! If you are going to bandy about words as “manipulate” and “control,” don’t trivialize the terms—do it with an example that matters! Don’t do it with an example of choosing this life course or that life course, neither of which will extend beyond 80 years. Do it with the example of control and manipulation that will gain you the reputation of a mass murderer to last throughout all time. Maybe that’s why the resurrection of the dead was one of the first Christian teachings to come under attack, even during the time of the apostles; the teaching thwarted the goal to keep people afraid so that you can make them do what you want.
Was it coincidence for Sanderson to speak as he did or did it represent kicking back at these petty people who put all their stock in the here and now, equating acting by faith as “control” and “manipulation?” I don’t know, but I wouldn’t mind seeing more of it.

I am not going to argue with you over conspiracy theories and what is true and what is not.
However,  one is naive if you think that powerful corporations did not willingly move their factories to China to benefit from the cheap 18-hour slave labour shifts where so-called inspections were never done to ensure fair working hours. Factory suicides were prevalent.  Avarice and greed allowed them to finance factories there, allowed them to share important intellectual property patents which helped China in their race to build satellites, rockets, and military equipment.  US corporations assisted China to spy on their own citizens and made concessions to the government in order to get permission to operate in the country. 
It may not be conspiracy but i do think their greed made them act in a treasonous fashion. The US government was asleep and allowed monopolies to proliferate and also never held these companies to account.  It is now too late to stop China in its quest  to control the wealth of the world.   These treasonous corporations still pay very little taxes on their profits in USA but have their headoffoffices in other tax havens.......  Too many of the high-up politicians also  have stakes in Chinese corporations....... 
What people are allowed to do today would have been called treason a few years back.  While I do not care what they have done  (I do not take sides) - it does tell me that the top echelons of society and corporations have no morals and are lawless. Politicians have conflict of  interest and do not declare it ....... because very little investigative research journalism is done these days.  The six major media companies in the west are
 
Have started  using bots to prepare the news....... 

The idea above was submitted by a patron. (The 1995 7/1 Watchtower “What is Truth” covers this topic well.)
Bonus point: Suppose the room is 75 degrees, but the two men feel it’s too cold or too hot. The cold man decides to change the temperature by adjusting the thermostat so that it’s more comfortable for him, but now the man who feels it is too hot is suffering.  This frustrates the hot man, so he adjusts the temperature to cool himself down. Now the cold person is suffering. This is similar to how religions treat the Bible. 
Christendom’s Churches keep adjusting and changing what the Bible teaches to try to make people more comfortable in their church. For example, they lower the temperature on God’s commands against the practice of homosexuality. Doing this doesn’t actually work. Their efforts to appease some ultimately ends up offending others. Bothered by the lies and hypocrisy people leave the “room” altogether.
The Bible should not be adjusted to make people feel more comfortable with their behavior. The temperature has been set by Jehovah. If someone is too cold, they can adjust and put on more clothes. If someone is too hot, they can adjust and remove unnecessary items of clothing. 
Instead of adjusting God’s standards to Make people more comfortable with immoral choices, people need to be encouraged to make personal adjustments to line up with God’s standards. 

I did read the book ‘The Creature of Jekyll Island,’ and yes, it was one of the most intriguing books that I have ever read.
I also read a book ‘The Rockefellers’ covering 4 generations. No going into conspiracies here, but if focused on how the first generation made the money, the second softened the image of the first and founded the charity, the third expanded the power base (David of Chase, Nelson of NY, 3 others i think) and the fourth went to psychiatrists and laid very low, even renouncing the name in a case or two.
Anti-pharma people loathe one of them—I think it is David—for essentially buying out the medical profession and converting it to drug salesmen.

It's a beautiful opera. Sometimes when I'm cooking I start singing the aria of the Queen of the Night and my husband begs me to shut up. I don't blame him at all! 😀 😀

Dear friend, thanks.  I did find time to listen to it.  This guy has done a lot of research on the illuminati (which no longer exists but its philosophy did not die out but lives on) but he does not know his bible well.  That is why he takes symbolic imagery and uses it in literal way.
I did find one or two discrepancies.  Ie.there are very few Jews left in Iran.  The few that are there now are protected by the government so it does not look bad to the outside world - they did persecute jews before. Most Jews and Bahai worshippers have left the country.
I do speak some Arabic and studied the Quran, hadith and sirah.  Shia Islam hates the Jews and want them all dead. There are scriptures in the Quran and hadith which outright says this.  I also listen to Persian translations of the imams and Iranian leaders....... they hate USA and jews. They also support Hezbollah and Hamas and Houthis- all terrorists - with money while their own people suffer. Iran is a major destabilizing influence in the middle east.
This fact is also a reason why the west is in danger because salafist extremists are in Europe, Canada, USA, Australia, UK etc.  It will definitely bring more problems in future.
While this video focuses only on Jewish connections to secret organizations - there are many organizations which come out of "old" money especially the Dutch east India company and the British east India company. The British supremacist organization "the pilgrim society" also pops to mind. Cecil John Rhodes left his will to six  or seven secret organizations. Look it up on wikipedia. He had control of all the gold and diamonds in south Africa.
Between 1902 and 1913 a lot of maneuvering between England and USA went on before the dual world power of Anglo-American emerged.  Tesla's patents were stolen and given to others who could be controlled. England's secret organizations built links in USA to influence it on many levels.  They controlled the newspapers to control public opinion, then also funded people to go to America and start banks and bring in the FED.  In England they started mi5 and mi6 and later assisted USA  to start CIA etc.  They still steal patents and use them in the USA military industrial complex because of how the CIA and other secret organizations were set up.
The City of London controls a lot of secret money in the world and it has it's own laws - it does not fall under British jurisdiction ..... just like Vatican.  So the idea that Revelation should be taken literally.... is not accurate. London controls a lot of what goes on in USA...behind the scenes. New York cannot be Babylon the harlot even if she has a lady as her welcoming symbol. Babylon was the original city who started opposition to God with false religion after the flood. Babylon could also be Lindon for that matter..... 
In the video it constantly talks of ancient mysticism which came from ancient Babylon..... yet it does not make the connection with religion... ?   The mysticism in Egypt with its spells and magic originated in Babylon.  
What the video also does not bring out is the mysticism connected to the belief of the immortality of the soul or the separateness of the soul to the body.  This is the biggest lie Satan told: you will not die.  This idea went to India where they believe the soul is continuously  reincarnated.  Well the Kabbalah is a mystic jewish religion which also does meditation similar to the Asian continent.   Yes, most Rabbis practice the real kabbalah. The New Age religion for the masses is a watered down version of the kabbalah. The idea that you can get 'hidden knowledge ' from connecting to ' God ' is clearly spiritism. 
Is this not what satan promoted in the garden of eden ? To get the 'hidden ' knowledge God did not give them? 
What I agree with is that most of the modern philosophies come from the French revolution which was supposed to bring utopian promise of freedom and equality. It had its roots in earlier spiritistic thought - as though satan was behind it to control the masses who wanted equality. The post modern philosophy and new feminism also hates the biblical  'patriarchy' and is bent on breaking down old values and the family. It wants a social revolution.
French revolution brought forth communism (and yes, I agree with the history of Marx and Lenin) but do not be misled: it is not just Jews behind this new world order. I listened to an article yesterday where Bill Gates is accused of continuing Monsanto's agenda in India....  new money / new billionaires have bought into it. There are Muslim masons too!  Masons were so widespread at time of Weisshaupt and its connection with Roseacrucianist ideas it is not a conspiracy. Even Mozart was a Mason. His opera " the magic flute is a allegory about masonry. 
When you have so much money as these billionaires do,   you feel especially priviledged and blessed and feel you must use your money to forward certain 'good' goals. They  believe they  are special and therefore cannot make  wrong choices:  I believe most of these leaders and billionaires who get together at the Bilderburg meetings have good motives while benefitting themselves in the process. Satan is deceiving.
Whatever happens, we are forewarned in the bible that satan will be drawn out to show his full hand. All the major corporations, oligarchs and leaders in the world, as well as  the secret societies, are moving in same direction - to install a world federation which has satan's goals in mind.   How far they will get we do not know....... but they definitely gave the money and technology to control billions if people when the technology is fully implemented. Rev 16: 14-16 indicates it is propaganda leading the leaders and the world to Armageddon. The propaganda is inspired by satan.
True disciples of jehovah will have a very hard time..... we know this. Our faith will be under test.... it is nice to look at these things and speculate but it is more important to be solid in the faith. Yes we have fun speculating but we must never lose sight of Jehovahs wonderful promises.... and make sure of the "more important things" ....because this will keep us strong.
Thanks for reaching out to me- I appreciate it.
 

If I was to describe myself, it would be in words very similar.
A story, with opening background:
I have always been ‘out there’ in appearance (for a brother), at times downright shaggy, with hair falling over my ears, and I don’t fuss much with combing it, usually not at all. I don’t fully trust anyone who has not a hair out of place. I don’t like cuff-links either, though I will concede that some will wear them and figure that they are like the fine seamless garment Jesus wore. Nobody would rebuke the Lord with: “Why don’t you wear a regular garment from the Goodwill so no one thinks you are putting on airs.” They would not say that, so cuff links get a free pass, too, but I would never wear the stupid things.
Amazingly, I have never been counseled on general shagginess, despite all the carrying on about ‘dress that befits a minister of GodI’—which rubs me the wrong way when it is overdone. I’ve had speaking assignments at the District Convention, now called Regionals. I can only surmise that my personality otherwise offsets a moderately (at times) unorthodox appearance. 
In my 50’s, after my eldering days, I got into the habit of moussing my hair when it got long, running my fingers through it once so it stayed off my forehead, and I would go about my day with it spiked up, flopping over any way it liked as gravity took over. If I see a young woman with green hair, I won’t harrumph as many of our people would—I’ll say, “Huh! You know, I kind of like that.” These days I am less that way and I now say to the barber: “Look, so long as you are not thinking “US Marine,” cut it as short as you like—even if you get it too short, I will not complain—it grows back.* That way I don’t have to horse with it for a while. 
Brother Lloyd of the US Branch gave the talk at our Assembly Hall. He is an old-timer who has been around forever. The place was packed out. For reasons I don’t remember, my wife and I arrived late and we were shoehorned into the only two seats available—directly in front of him.
His talk was hard-hitting, the type you used to hear from old-timers and the type that you will not hear today—‘if you do not make time for Jehovah, maybe he will not make time for you’ was the tone some of it took.
Now, I am not one of those brothers who has to track down the speaker so as to shake his hand. If I don’t speak with him at all, that is perfectly fine by me. I have stated here that I would love to have a Governing Body member stay at my house so I could ignore him (which would probably make me popular in his eyes). “There’s your room. Come down and hang out if you like, but don’t feel you have to—I know that you have things to do, if only unwinding free of persons who you have to talk to,” is what I would say to him.
So after the closing prayer I turn around with my spiked hair and find myself face to face with him—the crowds have not closed in yet. I exchange a few pleasantries—nice of him to make the sacrifice to travel, and so forth, and he says, almost with a twinkle, “I wasn’t too hard on you brothers, was I?” 
“Well,” I said, “we’ll adjust.”
......*With regard to not complaining about a bad haircut, I remember reading a book by Peter Lynch, the Fidelity fund manager known for investing in what he liked. He bought a ton on Dunkin Donut stock and it went to the moon—his interest first piqued because he loved their coffee. He also bought Supercuts. True to method, he went there first to get a haircut. He thought he looked a little funny as he left, but he allowed that it might simply be due to some new style that he was unaware of. The horrified look on the faces of his wife and daughters convinced him that it was not. The CEO, when he related the experience to him, observed cheerfully that hair grows back at 6 inches per....some quantity of time that I forget.
Lynch is the same fund manager who once observed of General Motors: “The nicest thing I can say about it is that it is a terrible company.” I never forgot that line.
PS: the good guys have all migrated for now to Anna’s new thread on the closed site. You’re welcome to join them. Leave 4Jah, Srecko, and Witness here to talk among themselves. They’ll soon discover that they can’t stand one another.
 
 
 

I would say most of the JWs who comment on here are unconventional! 😀
Lol!

I enjoyed the honesty and laughed out loud many times.  So I will also be honest.  I think the above sentence refers to me.... and I agree.  I have often thought my judgment is not very good regarding interaction with the nasty characters on the forum. It gives jehovah no credit.
Sometimes, while showing the  impatient side of my personality - I chided myself,  but still went ahead.  
The watchtower was a wakeup call for me - thank you Jehovah. None of us is so strong we cannot fall. Deceit comes in many forms.  While I do write some crazy things, I am glad I have an outlet for a very creative imagination.
But i am always grateful to know the truth, be in the field regularly, and be at the meetings.  I am in an absolutely lovely congregation and I love all the young ones. I think I may be the eldest.  I should cherish it much more and rather spend more time on building even better relationships in the congregation.
I am not a dignified elderly person. I hate coming across as dignified and pious. I do not take myself too seriously.... so there!  You know me a little better!  However, I have learnt that there is no compromise on Jehovahs principles..... but one should always try to see the other side to act in a compassionate, merciful, just and wise way.  I am unconventional in every way and therefore had to learn to curb /pummel a colourful personality to be fit for Jehovah's purpose. ...... and still learning to improve all the way!  
It is hard to navigate this world as a JW and that is why I take my hat off for the young ones who remain so obedient and exemplary! 

Jesus was on the podium as a political "subverter"......so we know that we will be called the same.

I enjoyed the honesty and laughed out loud many times.  So I will also be honest.  I think the above sentence refers to me.... and I agree.  I have often thought my judgment is not very good regarding interaction with the nasty characters on the forum. It gives jehovah no credit.
Sometimes, while showing the  impatient side of my personality - I chided myself,  but still went ahead.  
The watchtower was a wakeup call for me - thank you Jehovah. None of us is so strong we cannot fall. Deceit comes in many forms.  While I do write some crazy things, I am glad I have an outlet for a very creative imagination.
But i am always grateful to know the truth, be in the field regularly, and be at the meetings.  I am in an absolutely lovely congregation and I love all the young ones. I think I may be the eldest.  I should cherish it much more and rather spend more time on building even better relationships in the congregation.
I am not a dignified elderly person. I hate coming across as dignified and pious. I do not take myself too seriously.... so there!  You know me a little better!  However, I have learnt that there is no compromise on Jehovahs principles..... but one should always try to see the other side to act in a compassionate, merciful, just and wise way.  I am unconventional in every way and therefore had to learn to curb /pummel a colourful personality to be fit for Jehovah's purpose. ...... and still learning to improve all the way!  
It is hard to navigate this world as a JW and that is why I take my hat off for the young ones who remain so obedient and exemplary! 

Unlike most here, and possibly everyone here, my online activity is known in my home congregation. This is not due to this forum, which probably Is unknown to them, but to my blog. I have blogged for years. I don’t advertise the fact, but word gets around, and within the year elders have approached me to say that they would like to use me more in the congregation, but is there anything to what they have heard that I engage with apostates?
I at first told them that I did not; however what I did do came close enough to it that it could easily be taken that way and for that reason they probably should not use me in any visible capacity. As long as counsel is what it is, this seems the reasonable course to me. If there is a blatant example of not following counsel on a point repeatedly made—well, ‘he doesn’t enjoy privileges in the congregation,’ does he? This is not quite fair to me, but it is not about me. I consider it a win-win.
Many times in my writing I have made the point that I am not trying to set an example for others to follow, that I am pure-and-simply a bad boy in this one respect and I don’t try to present myself otherwise—though I will say that it is the only area in which I am a bad boy—I am a good boy in all other respects. I am on excellent terms with all of my elders— all upstanding men whom I respect—and with the congregation as a whole. If a list was ever made as to who is trying or discouraging or toxic or headstrong or aloof or a downer in any respect, I would be the last person to be on it. I am a fine example in every way—except one, and this troubles them.
Anyone visiting my blog can see the book cover for TrueTom vs the Apostates! so its a little hard to say: ‘Don’t know nothing about no apostates here!” One brother on FB, who writes himself, when he saw that cover, said, “You’re brave.” I have never made any attempt to hide what I do. I have even written HQ about it, more than once, as to what I am doing and why. They have not responded. I’ve said I don’t expect or require them to, but I will take to heart anything that they do say. Nothing. As for me, the show is not interesting unless there are villains and apostates for me make the perfect villains!—they have tasted the good food and spit it out.
Only about 10-20% of my blog could be described as taking on controversial topics. But blogging itself is not the pathway to popularity within the JW community—some will always give you the fish-eye over it. A visitor I know from HQ spoke at the Kingdom Hall, we engaged in some chit-chat afterward, and I asked him for thoughts about blogging. “Oh, blogging,” he said, as though I had told him that I enjoy farting in the auditorium, and then he migrated into generalities about there being no rules but one must always take into consideration the sensibilities of others, avoid hanging out with the baddies, and so forth. In the introduction to my 3rd book, I wrote: “Books about Jehovah’s Witnesses authored by Jehovah’s Witnesses are not plentiful. This is a shame, for no outsider, even with the best of intentions, can do justice to the faith as can an insider - they miss the nuances, and in some cases, even the facts. Jehovah’s Witnesses are primarily drawn from the ranks of working people who are not inclined to write books. Pathways of publicizing their faith are already well established. Why write a book when you can and do look people in the eye and tell them what you have to say?” For the most part, the same is true of blogs. 
Two elders wanted to speak with me following Sunday’s Watchtower. How did I still feel regarding interaction with apostates after that lesson and similar items in the past? There have been two other discussions—probably spurred on to priority by consideration of Paul’s counsel that certain pernicious sayings “spread like gangrene” so you want to get right on top of it—the counsel to not engage with apostates is pretty clear.
These are good men and I do not doubt for one moment their concern for me. There is no way I am going to get into any sort of confrontation with them. This is a little challenging because if one has engaged with the malcontents—in some cases the scoundrels—then one knows things in detail that they know only vaguely, and in some cases, not at all.
I asked if I could speak candidly. Obviously, this is just a verbal opening to present that I would speak from the heart and not just regurgitate platitudes or ‘what I am supposed to say’—it’s not to suggest that I would be normally lying through my teeth. Of course, they agreed.
The article was of a catch-all nature of several things to watch out for, several unrelated things that could pierce your shield if you didn’t maintain it—materialism, undue anxiety, lies, and discouragement were in the mix. Now, the only one of these that you can actually sink your teeth into as a direct measurement is ‘lies and distortions.‘ Do you engage with those who originate them or not? Easy black and white answer. What can one possibly say about materialism? It is much more subjective. “Did you move into that house that has far more space than you need or didn’t you?”—it’s ridiculous! No one is ever going to say that. The best you can do is what the Watchtower did do—point out that while you might easily be able to afford something with money, which you have far more of than your neighbor, that does not mean that you can afford it with time (for use and maintenance of), which you have no more of than your neighbor. 
As a byproduct of these other areas being hard to pin down, the only one that might possibly incur restriction of privileges is dealing with apostates. ‘There are brothers here and in other Halls that show significant weakness as regards to the other three—materialism, discouragement, and anxiety, and it can be plainly seen in their demeanor in some cases,‘ I said, ‘yet no way would their privileges ever be affected by it—only for that involving dealings with opposers.’
I spoke of the paragraph about discouragement—one of the four sharp arrows. “What discourages me most,” I said, “is that apostates are taking public shots at the God and the community that I hold dear, and they are catching the ear of many who take to heart what is said and sometimes ignore us in our ministry because of it, and I want to provide an answer and defend the truth, but I can’t because I don’t know what they are saying.” It is not true for me—I do know what they are saying—but for most publishers it is true.
I spoke of the hypothetical youngster who cannot resist, whose curiosity or desire to defend the truth leads him to go to where the bad boys hang out, where he hears distortions that he has never heard before and is totally unprepared for and he is stumbled, at which point no one is able to help him because no one here knows in any detail what he has come across. It’s a lose-lose. I did not say (you always think of your best lines too late) that if you leaned on youngsters not to have illicit sex, and yet one did anyway and acquired an STD, you would not stand by and watch him die. You would educate yourself any way that you had to so as to provide backup rescue.
There is only so far you can go with this reasoning because they only understand what they are counseling you about from just one angle—the spiritual angle, to be sure, which is the most important one, but still only one angle, and not the angle from which there is a huge non-spiritual vulnerability. They hear and acquiesce to all the points made—they may all be facts—but they are like people anywhere, and certainly displayed daily on this forum—just because they are facts does not mean they are the overriding facts. They keep coming back to counsel not to engage with apostates. Do they mean engage like a military general confronting the enemy or engage like a man putting a ring on the finger of his future bride? You almost can’t go there, because they themselves maintain such distance from the topic that they can’t readily distinguish between the two and consider it inappropriate to get close enough to try.
The brother taking the lead is very smart, very loving, very much a balm to everyone. I’ve known him for the longest time and there is no one whom I value more. I have no question that he is primarily and genuinely concerned about my spiritual welfare. I feel bad that I should be the cause of he and some brothers before him feeling obliged to buy out time to speak with me over this—they have other things that they could be doing. I know this because for many years I was an elder and I had many things that I could be doing at any given moment—yet he and others have bought out significant time for me. I’m a bit embarrassed over it.
“How has my spirituality been affected?” they ask. Possibly they are anticipating an answer such as might be on a video: “Well, I have to admit, my spirituality is suffering. I’m not finding the joy I used to....etc.” I tell them that my spirituality, as near as I can tell, gets better all the time because I am able to fire when I see the whites of their eyes—and even that my healthy spirituality is plainly reflected in how I conduct myself and how others view me. 
“Well, pray on it,” one advises. Gingerly I suggest that what if I have prayed on it and then afterward have decided that it is okay, in fact, just the ticket, to do as I am doing?” Nevertheless, how can one turn down the invitation to pray? Sure, I will pray—and in fact, presently I think of the degree to which they may be right and how I might modify my conduct. As is my M.O, I think best when I am writing. As is my M.O, I write best when I realize I am writing before a varied audience ranging from supportive to apathetic to dismissive to opposed, and imposing the discipline upon myself to choose words that will be as effective as possible to all four.
They say things like how Jehovah has all bases covered. He sees that we have the proper direction when we need it, and so forth. While the things I say may be so, and certainly my action is well-meaning, what about just being obedient to counsel? There they have me. Because I do believe that Jehovah has all bases covered and I do believe in following the lead of the older men—it is part of the package that I signed on for. I can give them a hard time: “Don’t worry about my spirituality—I’ll be just fine—it’s enough to worry about your own spirituality!” but why would I do that? Is that not almost inviting disaster? a al ‘Let he who is standing beware that he does not fall.’ I can tell them to buzz off and mind their own business, but why would I do that? These are the men—all of them friends of mine—who will lay down their life for me should the occasion arise, as in John 15:13, for example. Not only will they die for me, but they will live for me, and they prove it continually. The right-in-their-own-eyes opposers on this forum will not die for me. Even were they inclined to, they live on perches of self-isolation and say “Who needs organization?” so that if i get into hot water they will not know of it until they read my obituary. I should give my elders a hard time or interfere with that dynamic of living and dying for me? No.
All they want is for me not to cross swords with apostates. They probably are not crazy about my going there in the first place, but that is not the topic of discussion. If I go there to scope out what the enemy is up to, I set no bad example—nobody knows of it. If I go there to refute, I publicly do what the ones I respect for taking the lead have asked me not to do. How do I know that they are not right? How do I know that I am not like the fellow signing out on the city wall after Hezekiah has told the troops to zip it? If I am ineffective, others come to help me out, against Hezekiah’s counsel. If I am effective, others are inspired to do likewise, against Hezekiah’s counsel. How do I know that they will not end up with an arrow through the head on my account? 
What am I doing when I am answering back the malcontents here? I am having a ball is what I am doing! But is it affecting my spirituality as the brothers asked? Well, no—for the most part—that has grown stronger. On the other hand—@arauna speaks of OCD and she ought to be speaking of it to me—sometimes I come here with a certain eagerness looking for “apostates” to beat up on. When one or another flames out, like Matthew4 5784 did a few weeks ago and reveals himself pure hate on two legs as respects Jehovah’s people, dropping all pretense of being here to help us, I paint an A on my fuselage and pump my fist! But is it good for me? I do get to hone my writing skills, but is that enough to override other matters? I am not exactly doing a “May Jehovah rebuke you!” am I? I am not exactly imitating Jesus in saying “leave them be—blind guides is what they are,” am I? Moreover, others come along for the first time, not knowing the history, read my retorts, and say, “Man, that brother is brutal! Can he really be a brother?”
I’m going to turn over a new leaf with regard to interacting with these guys. It doesn’t mean I won’t still be here and it doesn’t mean I won’t still interact with those who strike me as on our team—even if I question their judgment sometimes. I’ll probably renege from time to time, and if I do I will forgive myself, but the effort will be to follow through on my resolve. If need be, I will write a reply to this or that fathead and then not send it—I’ll incorporate it elsewhere or just stick it in the file. “How’s that for praying about it and to see what comes out of it?” I’ll tell someone someday.
Then, too—and I’m almost ashamed to put this last, since it should be first—though not necessarily from the reader’s point of view, which is why I place it where I do—my wife is far more conventional than me and has long been troubled by my online activity. She doesn’t for one second worry about my loyalty, but she does in some undefined way worry that maybe I will yet come to harm somehow. I’ll modify my approach for her sake as well.
Are the brothers “brainwashed”—the ones who counseled me about a matter that they do not understand themselves from a fleshly point of view—the only point of view that is of concern to the greater world? I would say that they are in this regard—with the important caveat that there is barely anyone anywhere who is not. Follow the flag and get your head blown off in consequence, and only some of your countrymen will think your death noble—everyone else in the world will consider your death in vain. It doesn’t take some brainwashing to fall for that? Follow unquestioningly the overall goals of this system to ‘get a good education so that you may get a good job’—not a tad of brainwashing there that that is the path to happiness? When my wife worked as a nurse with the geriatric community, she said the most common thing in the world was for bewildered elderly persons to look around them in their waning years and say, “is this all there is?” These were not ‘losers’ in life, for the most part. These were persons who had had careers and loving family. But there was an aching emptiness at the end, a certain vague but overpowering sense of betrayal. It’s the result of being brainwashed by mainstream thinking, as far as I can see.
Steve Hassen is not wrong when he says that humans are easily influenced by others. Humans are just that way. That is why some god-awful style comes upon the scene and within ten years we’re all wearing it, wondering how we ever could have imagined that those dorky styles of yesterday did anything for us. Where Steve is wrong in my view is that he gives a free pass to his side—the mainstream. I have said before that it is not brainwashing that he objects to—it is brainwashing that is not his. Just because he was naive enough to be sucked into the Moonies, what is it to him if people want to explore non-traditional paths? Of course there may be pitfalls along the way, but there are pitfalls anywhere. Among the most harmful examples of manipulation is advertising, whereby people ruin themselves buying expensive things they do not need with money they do not have to keep up with people they do not like. Why doesn’t he go there? If the mainstream he embraces successfully answered all the burning questions of life, he wouldn’t have to worry at all about ‘cults’ People would reflect upon how the present life and traditional goal rewards fully in happiness and life satisfaction, and reject those ‘cults’ out of hand.

I don't think anyone will bother replying to your assumption as it is rather silly. Of course we know what the definition of an apostate is.

Oh NO , you found us! We are exposed! 
 Guess what, you can come and throw your nasty bait... I have decided you are not going to get a worthy answer from me. You know it all .......I am stupid....I have been duped! Oh woe is me!!!  Somehow I can happily  live with that! 

False prophets, false "christs" are excellent at this, those who deceive the "elect".  Matt 24:24 
To believe that our battle against Satan is fought on the physical battle ground, contradicts all that scriptures tells about the last days. Eph 6:11-17
Satan makes the display of war right before our eyes. It isn’t hard to pick out a city on the earth and call it a “great city”.  It isn’t hard to imagine political entities merging with spiritual entities when the news gives it to us, in full detail.   This is living “according to the flesh”, according to the activities in Satan’s world.  It is foolish entertainment.   Those who put their hopes in an earthly, “fleshly” organization that utilizes all the same tools of the nations, are easy to be deceived of the true battle at hand. They willingly put their trust in men who change doctrine consistently, calling each new change, “truth”.   This isn’t living a spiritual life, but a fleshly life.  It is based on faith in what one can literally see and touch.  
 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.  Rom 8:5 
We a have a choice between two spiritual Fathers -
God, who is truth and who’s ways are perfect. Deut 32:4; Num 23:19   God, who does not tolerate liars. Prov 12:22
Satan, the father of the lie, who wins people over by deception and fleshly desires. John 8:44; Luke 4:5-8
If we say that God is our Father, that we are His progeny, why would we entertain proven liars who live “according to the flesh”? John 4:24  We would be deceiving ourselves by thinking God overlooks our choice.  We are each responsible for what we choose to put in our heart; seeds of truth, or seeds of lies.  Matt 7:15-20 
If we believe a liar and claim that the liar represents God’s Son, we are in no better shape than the liar is , when standing before Christ.  Rev 18:4
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.”  Gal 6:7,8
 
“Israel” has already been surrounded and trampled down by a “Gentile” body of elders in alliance with “Israel’s” Harlots. It is the “disgusting thing standing in the holy place” of Matt 24:15  They are the two Beasts of Revelation who make spiritual “war” through lies, against the saints and those with them.  Their lies deflect the true battle at hand.  Rev 16:13,14; 11:1,2; 13:1,2,5-8,11,12
 
 
 
 

Thanks, you are kind....   I have been spending way too much time on here.... I will start to wrap up.... 
I like these topics and they are a little irresistible....because iron sharpens iron ..... but reality calls.  

Too often we play their game. Given the facts that they choose to focus upon, they are exactly right, It is the choice of facts that is significant—which ones are promoted, which ones are inflated, which ones are downplayed, which ones are ignored, and which ones are declared not facts at all.
The Word makes clear from the get-go that those who serve love and serve God in the manner he directs and those who do not will have dramatically different ways of looking at things. They will have dramatically different goals in life. Once in a while (or even more than once in a while) apostates are pure loons. Once in a while (or even more than once in a while) some of us are. But for the most part, both groups act consistently with the facts that they choose to focus upon.
It is really impossible to successfully argue against their facts without also arguing against their priorities, their “tastes.” And since the latter is plainly impossible, it does make one reassess one’s time spent in doing so.

Another illustration—this one i gave at the meeting when it was my turn to comment—was that if there is someone in the audience who hates beets, I will not be able to argue with him that beets taste good. It is something that is beyond the scope of argument and I am proving myself pretty dense if I persist in trying. In the same way, the verse says: “Taste and see that Jehovah is good.” Some have tasted and seen that he is bad. It’s not something that does anyone any good to argue about. 
My 30 seconds were up and you can’t keep raising your hand like a jack-in-the-box. But if I was to extend the thought here I might point out that I love cake. It tastes good. That’s why I love it. Imagine my surprise upon coming here on the WNMF and discovering some dissing cake. How is that possible? Upon probing, I find that it is because the sweetness of sugar does nothing for them, so they just drop down a notch and focus on how you can get cavities and put on weight with cake. Well, yeah—if sugar did nothing for me, I too would drop down the list and harp on these other things.
So it is with the ‘sugar’ of the Bible’s message. This is what does it for Jehovah’s Witnesses—that unique combination of accurate Bible teachings along with the united brotherhood that comes with it—a unity and love unparalleled—and a satisfaction of knowing that one is cooperating with God’s intent of declaring his name and purposes. But if for some reason none of that should matter anymore, than what is there left than to drop down a level and promote some complaints to first place? It is what the opponents here do. Is that not a distortion—the reprioritizing of facts? We tend to carry on here as though facts are islands unto themselves. They’re not. They are more like the ingredients of a cake—they work together. One’s appreciation for the baked product will depend entirely upon one’s taste for the different ingredients. 
We’re a little nuts when we come on here and quibble over facts, (nobody does this more than me) as though individual facts in themselves were what clinches the deal. Instead, it it the prioritization of facts that matters. Seldom is it that people argue with no facts at all. It is which ones they choose to focus on and which ones they choose to downplay or even ignore that matters. 
And that is of facts that are presented accurately—as many are not. For example, a Pew survey lists Jehovah’s Witnesses as bringing up the bottom of the income chart—collectively they are the financially poorest. A fact? Yes. Opponents take that fact to suggest that Witnesses are deadbeats, some by nature, and some made so by a controlling organization. A distortion? I think so. When I wrote a post on the topic I stated that, in view of what the Bible consistently says about money and the love of money, any group not toward the bottom of that list has reason to hang their head in shame. Their high placement affords proof that they do not practice what they preach and they do not trust what the Lord says.
As to the WT’s own statement, ‘lies and distortion of facts’ might be more technically accurate if rephrased as ‘distortion of facts and lies’—I am not necessarily a fan of how the warning is made—but in the end, is it not the same thing? Consider:
”Is it really so that?”  (a distortion of truth, designed to plant doubt)
”You will not die.” (a lie—nothing but)
”for God knows that in the very day of your eating from it...” (a bit of both, but mostly a distortion, for it impugns God’s motives)
More is distortion than outright lie. But it amounts to the same thing. In fact, the distortion is worse than the lie, in most cases, for without the distortion to ‘prime the pump’ the lie itself will often be spotted and rejected out of hand. 
Who does the fellow with the ink horn mark on the forehead? Those who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things done in God’s name. Some aren’t. They aren’t marked for that reason. In no case is any lie being told. Even the distortion of truth is not immediately apparent. But it is there. People made in God’s image should be sighing and groaning over the detestable things done in God’s name. And sighing and groaning is not the same thing as bitching and complaining—plenty of that around here.
 
 

There are 66 books in the Bible.  65 of them speak of those in relationship with God – those in covenant with him.  If nations were involved, they were nations that affected God’s people directly. From Adam, to Abraham…Moses, the nation of Israel, Jews, Jesus, to spiritual “Israel” -  all pages of the Bible are directed towards God’s people in covenant.   Why would the last book that speaks of the most difficult era before death is destroyed, (1 Cor 15:26) have anything to do with nations not under covenant with God, and are not cognizant of who “Israel” is?    One book, out of 66.
Your Armageddon teachings say that all nations will be destroyed because of their sins, and the organization of 8 million people will be left to enter into “paradise”.  Your teachings project that God will protect you, despite of all of the WATCHTOWER’S sins; sins that are no different than those being committed by all other organization.  The magazine’s illustrations depict JWs coming under attack and Christ stepping in with his angels to physically kill armies of the nations, who are apparently coming against YOU, an “innocent” people.  Lo and behold, all are saved at the last moment.
When I speak of the sins of the WT, I hear a complaining spirit saying, “where is God’s mercy?”  I ask, where is the understanding of God’s justice in the mind of a JW?  It is totally apparent that the organization as a whole, has no sense of it, or the gravity of its own sins.  God’s people under covenant are His focus – “Israel”, the anointed ones of “New Jerusalem” (Gal 4:26)   Yes, Satan will cause horrendous destruction, but Revelation is about the “great city” that has always been the topic of the Bible.  It doesn’t change with the 66th book; what changes is the spiritual perspective. 
Matt 5:35 -  or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.
Beautiful in its loftiness,
    the joy of the whole earth,
like the heights of Zaphonis Mount Zion,
    the city of the Great King.  Ps 48:2
“How the faithful city has become a harlot, She who was full of justice! Righteousness once lodged in her, But now murderers.”  Isa 1:21
The WT has given JWs a hint of who the Harlot and “great city” of Revelation is, but it remains unseen.   As even your leaders admit, Jerusalem is Jerusalem, and it doesn’t apply to Christendom.  They have erased the teaching of an “anti-typical” Jerusalem.   The “great city” spoken of in Revelation is that city which bears God’s name. 
“See, I am beginning to bring disaster on the city that bears my Name, and will you indeed go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, for I am calling down a sword on all who live on the earth, declares the Lord Almighty.’  Jer 25:29
What city is greater than Zion, than Jerusalem?
Do JWS really believe that all in the WT who “share” in the Harlot’s (GB) sins will go unpunished?  Rev 18:4-8  Is the organization somehow impervious to destruction no matter what they do or by who, in Satan’s world?  That would be an awesome idol of great power that dares to stand against God’s judgments.  
People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”  Rev 13:4
“When you cry out for help, let your collection of idols save you! The wind will carry all of them off, a mere breath will blow them away. But whoever takes refuge in Me will inherit the land and possess my holy mountain”  Isa 57:13
“Then I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the witnesses to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished.  Rev 17:6
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!”  Luke 13:34
Who is that “woman”/Harlot who spiritually “kills” the anointed ones for their testimony to Jesus”?
“The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time?    But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk.”  Luke 12:42,45
Surely, that should answer it.  It is your GB with "her" army of elders. 
“The second beast (false prophet/Harlot)  was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast (“spirit-directed organization”) , so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.”  Rev 13:15
When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [c]our Lord was crucified.
The “great city” is not found in Christendom or in the world.  No nation has as its target, the anointed ones, when not even JWs know who they are. 
Although Satan does, who is seen as using DECEIT in the last book of the Bible, to destroy them.
“Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.  Rev 20:7-10
If all JWs have their eyes fixed in anticipation of living out the movie of Armageddon produced by your leaders, where is the deceit that the “saints”/anointed succumb to? 
It is in another movie; one that JWs are part of each day of their lives – the organization.   
Unless the Lord of hosts
Had left to us a very small remnant,
We would have become like Sodom,
We would have been made like Gomorrah.  Isa 1:9
“And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”  Rev 11:7-8
Any JW anointed or not, who has been disfellowshipped, knows clearly that they are considered “dead”. 
 
 
 
 
 https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-letter-i-received-hi-sister-pearl-i.html
 
 
 

Thanks, you are kind....   I have been spending way too much time on here.... I will start to wrap up.... 
I like these topics and they are a little irresistible....because iron sharpens iron ..... but reality calls.  

They are incestuous, with execs freely migrating from regulatory agencies to the companies they are supposed to monitor, and then back again.
A favorite piece of interview from the movie ‘Inside Job’ about the 2007 Great Recession is an interviewer asking a business professor why, several years later, no exhaustive inquiries have been undertaken.
”Because then you will find the culprits,” the fellow said.
They go to the same country clubs and belong to the same social strata. They are not interested in turning upon one another. Do a little to have something to present the masses and then ‘on with the show.’

Royal family members were taken in by Him. One must understand the period to understand why people accepted certain things.  The Pope made the konkordat with Hitler.......even Russia trusted him..... untill he turned on it. 
People can see things right under their noses and not realize what they are looking at.  Most Jews who experienced kristal nacht never thought it could suddenly turn much worse.  Those who did not leave in time were caught in the trap.