Arauna

Yes, I agree. I think we may have got our lines crossed earlier. What I was trying to say before is that when it comes to secularism, we accept the designation "clergy" for our elders, because that is how the world sees the elders. But inside the congregation we do not view elders in that same way, in the same way as the world. (I don't know if I have explained what I meant it any better, but you explained it already). Sorry for the confusion.

That doesn’t mean it doesn’t fall. Maybe he has a point.
Did you notice how Bro Losch ran down all those end-time predictions from about the year 400? There was a avalanche of them. When he got to ‘our brothers have made some, too’, he didn’t take cover in numbers. He doubled-down and went into detail of how they missed. He didn’t even use the perfect outs that he might have used—verses like Acts 1:6 to show that they were in good company.
So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”  
No budging on 1914, though.

Everybody knows it. It’s nothing more than common sense. Regardless of what elders are called, they come closest to fitting the role lawmakers have in mind for ‘clergy.’

You really know how to pump things up in total unreality.
Overreaction (over the top accusation) is not one of the fruit ages of Jehovah's spirit

You seem to not ever have belonged to a church.  I went to catholic, protestant and evangelical churches in my childhood. My grandmother and mother was catholic, father protestant and I attended church with neighbours at evangelical. 
There is no way one can compare our elders with the hierarchy of the catholic church, the pomp and ceremony, the ritual, and most of all the ' costumes' and the liturgy.... as well as all the titles. One pays money for most services rendered.
In evangelical the priest often sang solo and then presided  over the "receiving of the holy spirit"...the speaking of tongues., healing etc.  I saw people falling over with "spirit"  as a youngster and after a few times did not ever go back. I loved the singing though. Choir singing and pageants, game nights etc at church.
Protestant - the Dutch reformed church is very stoic with a minister which is very stoic.  The church liturgy also has words that are repeated every week with the same minister leading the church members  in the service. While catholic confessions are weekly, in the protestant church the minister is there as a confidant and gives spiritual advice only when requested. He offers classes for catechism.
This the only common denominator JWs  have with all these churches:  the aspect of confidentiality  and advice albeit not in the same format. We cannot call JWs clergy except when referring to a law-  which refers to this single service when offered by a religious org.

Well yes, we don't say elder "so and so" or pioneer "so and so". We say brother or sister "so and so"
We don't use those words as titles. Only as descriptions of the tasks the brother or sister does.
Here is that article in Croatian
https://wol.jw.org/hr/wol/d/r19/lp-c/102009288
 

There is no way you can "suit yourself" in a secular  court of law - you fight to win....... to expect otherwise is unjust.  If you lose while innocent and obeying God (like brothers in Russia) one serves the penalty and then try to appeal within the secular law system they have created.
4jah2me, if your sense of justice is still outraged :  I understand..but do not forget, even if a guilty person gets away with something like murder, rape, etc. Jehovah sees everything and he will compensate in future when His system arrives - in the end there will be true justice for all.
Do you believe that God really exists and there is a future where he will compensate?   .... The 1000 years is called a day of judgment is it not?  This world is not all there is....
The GB will be judged as individuals and how they executed their responsibilities given to them. If you really believe God exists - then rest assured no-one will get away with something serious...  The elders too.  God is not partial. 
I have seen elders handle their responsibilities in good way.... and bad.  If their brand of justice is flawed, I have seen elders fall out or be removed...  but jehovah is a God of mercy...... he always gives people time to change or improve..........or repent....... no matter what their sin was.
In a secular court - we accept judgment - even if a mistake was made. We accept that human judgment is not perfect and then try to fight the verdict through legal channels. Many people on death row have been innocent.
In the congregation people's spiritual lives are at stake.... I can speak from experience..... I come across here as hard ... but I have been in truth since I was 21 - the first in my family.  The knocks I got from imperfect brothers and sisters in this time  did affect me....especially when I was young, stupid and fragile. .. but in the end it strengthened me and gave me "endurance". 
I stuck to jehovah (made Him my joy) and cultivated humility. I always tried to understand imperfection and only trust jehovah and stick to him..... this helped me to endure and grow in understanding.
This it is the crux of the matter...... trust that jehovah is the great compensator.  He is the only and absolute provider of true justice. He is righteous.
I read a lot of news .... when I read of the growing injustices against Christian's in north Africa...... the murders, rapes etc.  I just want to literally cry...... in this world run by satan behind the scenes, there is no true justice. 
JUSTICE really depends what kind of government is in power ..... and how corrupt it is or not.    We all will learn this soon when governments turn on religion.... we will see how just governments really are.  The bible does not say for nothing that those who accept Jesus' randsom will be persecuted before Armageddon. 
The law is usually the instrument by which they persecute people when the society is reasonably civil.  When society is in chaos, you are just executed or kangaroo court prevails.
Be glad you are living in a first world country - although things are deteriorating fast.  I cry for the young children being raped in Africa ...... all the time.... it is endemic....  law and order is only for those in power..... not the victims.
Jehovah loves the lowly, the victims..... and they do get a measure of comfort from Him in this world....... the full healing for them will only come in the new system.. ...but they must draw close to jehovah now to get this comfort.  Some do not appreciate this offer from jehovah..... and throw the opportunities away.
 

There is no way you can "suit yourself" in a secular  court of law - you fight to win....... to expect otherwise is unjust.  If you lose while innocent and obeying God (like brothers in Russia) one serves the penalty and then try to appeal within the secular law system they have created.
4jah2me, if your sense of justice is still outraged :  I understand..but do not forget, even if a guilty person gets away with something like murder, rape, etc. Jehovah sees everything and he will compensate in future when His system arrives - in the end there will be true justice for all.
Do you believe that God really exists and there is a future where he will compensate?   .... The 1000 years is called a day of judgment is it not?  This world is not all there is....
The GB will be judged as individuals and how they executed their responsibilities given to them. If you really believe God exists - then rest assured no-one will get away with something serious...  The elders too.  God is not partial. 
I have seen elders handle their responsibilities in good way.... and bad.  If their brand of justice is flawed, I have seen elders fall out or be removed...  but jehovah is a God of mercy...... he always gives people time to change or improve..........or repent....... no matter what their sin was.
In a secular court - we accept judgment - even if a mistake was made. We accept that human judgment is not perfect and then try to fight the verdict through legal channels. Many people on death row have been innocent.
In the congregation people's spiritual lives are at stake.... I can speak from experience..... I come across here as hard ... but I have been in truth since I was 21 - the first in my family.  The knocks I got from imperfect brothers and sisters in this time  did affect me....especially when I was young, stupid and fragile. .. but in the end it strengthened me and gave me "endurance". 
I stuck to jehovah (made Him my joy) and cultivated humility. I always tried to understand imperfection and only trust jehovah and stick to him..... this helped me to endure and grow in understanding.
This it is the crux of the matter...... trust that jehovah is the great compensator.  He is the only and absolute provider of true justice. He is righteous.
I read a lot of news .... when I read of the growing injustices against Christian's in north Africa...... the murders, rapes etc.  I just want to literally cry...... in this world run by satan behind the scenes, there is no true justice. 
JUSTICE really depends what kind of government is in power ..... and how corrupt it is or not.    We all will learn this soon when governments turn on religion.... we will see how just governments really are.  The bible does not say for nothing that those who accept Jesus' randsom will be persecuted before Armageddon. 
The law is usually the instrument by which they persecute people when the society is reasonably civil.  When society is in chaos, you are just executed or kangaroo court prevails.
Be glad you are living in a first world country - although things are deteriorating fast.  I cry for the young children being raped in Africa ...... all the time.... it is endemic....  law and order is only for those in power..... not the victims.
Jehovah loves the lowly, the victims..... and they do get a measure of comfort from Him in this world....... the full healing for them will only come in the new system.. ...but they must draw close to jehovah now to get this comfort.  Some do not appreciate this offer from jehovah..... and throw the opportunities away.
 

There is no way you can "suit yourself" in a secular  court of law - you fight to win....... to expect otherwise is unjust.  If you lose while innocent and obeying God (like brothers in Russia) one serves the penalty and then try to appeal within the secular law system they have created.
4jah2me, if your sense of justice is still outraged :  I understand..but do not forget, even if a guilty person gets away with something like murder, rape, etc. Jehovah sees everything and he will compensate in future when His system arrives - in the end there will be true justice for all.
Do you believe that God really exists and there is a future where he will compensate?   .... The 1000 years is called a day of judgment is it not?  This world is not all there is....
The GB will be judged as individuals and how they executed their responsibilities given to them. If you really believe God exists - then rest assured no-one will get away with something serious...  The elders too.  God is not partial. 
I have seen elders handle their responsibilities in good way.... and bad.  If their brand of justice is flawed, I have seen elders fall out or be removed...  but jehovah is a God of mercy...... he always gives people time to change or improve..........or repent....... no matter what their sin was.
In a secular court - we accept judgment - even if a mistake was made. We accept that human judgment is not perfect and then try to fight the verdict through legal channels. Many people on death row have been innocent.
In the congregation people's spiritual lives are at stake.... I can speak from experience..... I come across here as hard ... but I have been in truth since I was 21 - the first in my family.  The knocks I got from imperfect brothers and sisters in this time  did affect me....especially when I was young, stupid and fragile. .. but in the end it strengthened me and gave me "endurance". 
I stuck to jehovah (made Him my joy) and cultivated humility. I always tried to understand imperfection and only trust jehovah and stick to him..... this helped me to endure and grow in understanding.
This it is the crux of the matter...... trust that jehovah is the great compensator.  He is the only and absolute provider of true justice. He is righteous.
I read a lot of news .... when I read of the growing injustices against Christian's in north Africa...... the murders, rapes etc.  I just want to literally cry...... in this world run by satan behind the scenes, there is no true justice. 
JUSTICE really depends what kind of government is in power ..... and how corrupt it is or not.    We all will learn this soon when governments turn on religion.... we will see how just governments really are.  The bible does not say for nothing that those who accept Jesus' randsom will be persecuted before Armageddon. 
The law is usually the instrument by which they persecute people when the society is reasonably civil.  When society is in chaos, you are just executed or kangaroo court prevails.
Be glad you are living in a first world country - although things are deteriorating fast.  I cry for the young children being raped in Africa ...... all the time.... it is endemic....  law and order is only for those in power..... not the victims.
Jehovah loves the lowly, the victims..... and they do get a measure of comfort from Him in this world....... the full healing for them will only come in the new system.. ...but they must draw close to jehovah now to get this comfort.  Some do not appreciate this offer from jehovah..... and throw the opportunities away.
 

There is no way you can "suit yourself" in a secular  court of law - you fight to win....... to expect otherwise is unjust.  If you lose while innocent and obeying God (like brothers in Russia) one serves the penalty and then try to appeal within the secular law system they have created.
4jah2me, if your sense of justice is still outraged :  I understand..but do not forget, even if a guilty person gets away with something like murder, rape, etc. Jehovah sees everything and he will compensate in future when His system arrives - in the end there will be true justice for all.
Do you believe that God really exists and there is a future where he will compensate?   .... The 1000 years is called a day of judgment is it not?  This world is not all there is....
The GB will be judged as individuals and how they executed their responsibilities given to them. If you really believe God exists - then rest assured no-one will get away with something serious...  The elders too.  God is not partial. 
I have seen elders handle their responsibilities in good way.... and bad.  If their brand of justice is flawed, I have seen elders fall out or be removed...  but jehovah is a God of mercy...... he always gives people time to change or improve..........or repent....... no matter what their sin was.
In a secular court - we accept judgment - even if a mistake was made. We accept that human judgment is not perfect and then try to fight the verdict through legal channels. Many people on death row have been innocent.
In the congregation people's spiritual lives are at stake.... I can speak from experience..... I come across here as hard ... but I have been in truth since I was 21 - the first in my family.  The knocks I got from imperfect brothers and sisters in this time  did affect me....especially when I was young, stupid and fragile. .. but in the end it strengthened me and gave me "endurance". 
I stuck to jehovah (made Him my joy) and cultivated humility. I always tried to understand imperfection and only trust jehovah and stick to him..... this helped me to endure and grow in understanding.
This it is the crux of the matter...... trust that jehovah is the great compensator.  He is the only and absolute provider of true justice. He is righteous.
I read a lot of news .... when I read of the growing injustices against Christian's in north Africa...... the murders, rapes etc.  I just want to literally cry...... in this world run by satan behind the scenes, there is no true justice. 
JUSTICE really depends what kind of government is in power ..... and how corrupt it is or not.    We all will learn this soon when governments turn on religion.... we will see how just governments really are.  The bible does not say for nothing that those who accept Jesus' randsom will be persecuted before Armageddon. 
The law is usually the instrument by which they persecute people when the society is reasonably civil.  When society is in chaos, you are just executed or kangaroo court prevails.
Be glad you are living in a first world country - although things are deteriorating fast.  I cry for the young children being raped in Africa ...... all the time.... it is endemic....  law and order is only for those in power..... not the victims.
Jehovah loves the lowly, the victims..... and they do get a measure of comfort from Him in this world....... the full healing for them will only come in the new system.. ...but they must draw close to jehovah now to get this comfort.  Some do not appreciate this offer from jehovah..... and throw the opportunities away.
 

We all know that money does not buy happiness.  Not only the lawyer will get 10 mil. but the psychiatrists will make a bit too! 
 Excuse me for being cynical but the way people use drugs these days  to kill all pain, they most probably end up being able to party and afford some expensive drugs..... 
I am sure you know all about it! 
Do not be so naive about the world.  Child welfare services have been privatized just like the prisons.... and a lot of money is to be made....... and kn the side... child trafficking for sex.
I have listened to a few programs of cover ups regarding child trafficking and child homes being used for this - networks which cross borders.
They also take children away from vulnerable mothers .... listened to a case recently where they took a child away from a  mother who looked vulnerable..... she had to fight for her child but the child had already been sexually abused by the system.
Both in England and US there are some horror stories regarding  this scenario.  The world has changed - one cannot trust these authorities any more where money is to be made. Good investigative reporters are assassinated or for some reason commit suicide.....
True - no organization is perfect .... there are always individuals who will let jehovah down.... but it does not mean that we are not his people.... we fulfill the prophecies.
Thrust your gut opens up the possibility of "mischief by law". .. just saying.   
 

It may seem like a double standard but it is not.  In our congregations we do not call our elders "father"  leader or such other titles /designations the clergy have traditionally called themselves.... we do not..... BUT we do confide in the elders and in this they have a similar FUNCTion regarding confessions - which the law is about.  So by their function, not title, they qualify as clergy under secular law.
Anna - this is not a comment on your comment. Just a general thought.

That is your personal opinion..... the bible gives us instructions on what the role of elders are and we try to follow these instructions.

I wish people knew what a dictator is.  When they live under one they will not use the word so freely. People call jehovah a dictator as well because he dares to tell them what is right and wrong!

I wish people knew what a dictator is.  When they live under one they will not use the word so freely. People call jehovah a dictator as well because he dares to tell them what is right and wrong!

I wish people knew what a dictator is.  When they live under one they will not use the word so freely. People call jehovah a dictator as well because he dares to tell them what is right and wrong!

The Elders are clergy and Policemen, and judges and decision makers, and dictators et al. 

Indeed. I agree with his opinion in that the law needs to be changed.
Page 15 of the Supreme Court's decision says this: "This Court’s task is to interpret what is contained in the reporting statute as written by the Legislature. We do not opine whether that body could have made a different policy choice that would afford greater protection to child victims. The Legislature is the appropriate body to entertain such policy arguments.
 
Its simple. From a worldly point of view the elders are clergy. From the Christian congregation's point of view, the worldly definition of clergy does apply to the elders. However, outside of a worldly situation (meaning a worldly situation like a court setting) a member of the Christian congregation will not view the elders as clergy, because they are not applying the worldly point of view.  No deceit or lying there.

In fact, I did.
What criticisms? As stated:
Read how the ones in charge couldn’t speak the native languages and often skipped community meetings on that account. Read how some disrespected the local workers. Read how Washington headquarters micromanaged everything, how shifting senior management slowed progress to a crawl, how leaders with “absolutely no expertise” wielded authority. Read about hand-washing campaigns launched with huge fanfare to people who had no access to soap or water. Read about the 130,000 claimed to have been housed, but who actually just attended a seminar on how to fix their own homes, received temporary rental assistance or provisional shelters that started to disintegrate after three to five years. And be fair to the Red Cross: Read their response. Read it all. Were it not so tragic, it would be laughable. It was all so preventable. All that was needed was Bible education. Jehovah’s Witnesses have it. They value it. They didn’t suffer from the Red Cross’s problems.
Now let us place ourselves on their day on the hot seat:
Reporter: “These are ridiculous screwups! You must take responsibility and be held accountable! How could these things have happened?!”
A: “Look, it’s not our fault if they can’t speak English! What’s wrong with them. And there were a lot of internal promotions going on at the time. It regrettably caused some confusion. People want to move up in their careers, after all. You certainly can’t blame them for that! And what kind of a crazy place doesn’t have soap or water? That’s not our fault! And we got a bad bunch of rotting plywood from ‘Big Bob’s Builders’ just before they went under. They gave us a great deal which would have saved ‘those people’ money. We can’t be held responsible for housing that fell apart! Picky, picky, picky!”
Reporter: “Sounds reasonable.”
Yes, I have heard that. Since that is the very purpose of insurance, I was astounded that anyone would be small enough to object to this. Remember, they commence rebuilding without knowing or caring whether there is insurance in a given case. People are always free to turn the WT down and wait several weeks for the overworked commercial builders to get around to it.
I wrote about this accusation at some length: 
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/are-we-looking-at-encouragement-to-commit-insurance-fraud-part-1.html
Aren’t you sort of a piece of work—first asserting that the disaster relief work is a lying sign from Satan who is master at seeming an angel of light, and then saying that that the relief work is no big deal, since everybody does it?

We cannot fix the world (as you say)  but we can volunteer to help and support our brothers under duress.  This is what Jehovahs org does. Rarely do other organizations manage to help under such severe circumstances .
I recall in Mozambique disaster flooding about 20 years ago, the world watched and sent no help.  A week later when south Africans arrived they found JW volunteer doctors already there and services running in full force - also volunteers. JWs in south Africa had sent blankets and food, water, etc. Jws had problems getting landing rights for their planes but they were there before anyone else. They used chartered planes.  (Since then there has been a second flood.)
Opposers are quick to critisize JWs  as TH's example clearly illustrated.  They complained that we did not help all.... but our work is done by unpaid volunteers.
I can mention that Hillary Clinton's foundation received tons of money too!.... and they went there in person and threw their weight around (did not listen to local leaders) and squandered the money on things which they themselves decided were important and in the end it helped no-one. There is also nothing in Haiti to show on what they had accomplished.... but anything written negatively  in the press about where their donated  money went to?  Hillary got sterling coverage out of it... until later when no-one was interested about what really happened! 
Yes- we are not allowed to mention anything like this in  in our defence. Or compare our reasonably successful attempts to that of the other sectors in the world, where we are doing a reasonably good job under difficult circumstances. 
One can compare your reasoning to a court where only accusers are allowed to come forward but no defence lawyers allowed.  It is your "rule" that we may not bring up mitigating circumstances or compare our success to failed efforts in the world. 
Who are you to make the rules for what is allowed as a defence argument?  You obviously have made this rule for yourself - not to accept any mitigating circumstances or comparisons. Because we claim to do Jehovahs work, your private rules stipulate that we have to be perfect.  Anything less than perfect is not accepted by you. Your extremely high standard of righteousness must apply in all circumstances - I bet you live up to all of your own rules in private life.  Lol.
Now that to me is  hypocricy when you do not accept we are normal people who can err and make mistakes and only expect standards from us which are above what is normal.  When we show that we do well compared to others - then you come up with the rule that we cannot compare ourselves to the wicked world! Lol...  the truth is, we do manage do get some things right compared to other religious institutions and the "world".

By secular laws - by worldly laws - they can be classified as clergy.   By Jehovahs laws-  definitely not. 
Please start to understand that we live in the world - we cannot go out of the world.... so worldly laws apply to us when we go to court.   In court they will apply the law in this traditional way. 

Yes, this system has become so evil/vile and full of corruption that one cannot even trust governments to do the right thing any longer. The theatrical  divisions in government is an indication of what is going on below the unseen surface. 
True justice is something from the past.  This is how I really see this  worldly governmental system at present. There are many good people still left but they are helpless to do anything any longer because the system is now rigged with powerful 'wicked' people against them in all the right places - on top.
Children are not safe in the child care system any longer where large pockets of child trafficking has been covered up and child syndicates have now become international. Private companies and criminal gangs have gained control of the child care system in some areas and can pick from  the vulnerable children still in their parent's care. Not the entire child care system is wicked but pockets exist where governors or high officials close him are in on the game. I have listened to a few hair- raising stories while cooking.
Jeffrey Epstein's story is one of more..... where airplanes are used to transport young children around and they end up visiting private homes and parties etc.....pizza gate stories surface. ......and it is prevalent in the top echelons of society.  Both UK and USA involved. Part of Epsteins black book was released  (I cannot remember if it was by hackers) and top British officials were included.  Britain it has a long history of child sex, with PM Ted Heath one of them, royals, child TV presenters etc.
Prince Andrew was grilled because a few photos of him surfaced in the tabloids but the Clinton's are untouchable. Saw a new photo of mr Clinton recently with a young girl of Epsteins trafficked group. Absolutely nothing in the press afterwards. 
True investigative reporters and true whistleblowers end up dead in USA and UK and it is ruled a suicide.  Cover-up is all over. Watched a 60 minute recently where people spoke of one corroner always called out in in top cases. His history of false death reports was exposed. He was working with top officials.
Corruption in  law enforcement is high. I know of several policemen who ended up dead. Listened to one (fbi/cia -i forgot) who fled to Moscow.... to save his life and spoke about the corruption high up.... no longer safe to be a real (not fake) whistleblower.
Listened to a soldier's story recently  where she said she was moved to a new base  that was weird. The rules were different. She was targeted because she asked questions. She said money was disappearing from the ledgers.  Inadvertently by photocopying  the ledgers and proving financial  corruption ........she uncovered a child sex ring - trafficking. ......  She realised higher people were involved in the money scam when she was targeted after she went whistleblowing to higher officials ....but not in her wildest dreams did she suspect that  children were involved..... That only came out in the full investigation..... She had appealed to central government....as a last resort. She heard of a death at the base - a suicide before she came. She was suspicious.   True whistleblowers are in danger now .......because perpetrators are protected by powerful people.
This is why I think - the water on the top of this worldly system looks acceptable (it has the appearance that it is not yet a complete lunatic asylum)  but when one peers one centimeter below the surface -  the world has become  a paranna tank.  First world countries, where a lot of money can be made, is now the same as third world countries, totally corrupt.  Child trafficking is up there with drugs in revenue.
Citizens are no longer protected. Daily people are knived to death in Europe..... officials know what is the problem is but refuse to acknowledge it or write about it in the press. It is a taboo subject. People shout the extremist words when killing Jews or infidels.... but the officials "still have to determine the reason".  With child trafficking it has become the same scenario. One investigative organization blames the other for not doing a good job. America has something like 18 organizations similar to FBI and they all pass the buck to one another when bad things do manage to surface....
Brave whistleblowers in the child care system are harrassed by law and even lose their homes, and put into institutions under false names so family members cannot find them.  I listened to a former child service official's story  a while back - what they did to her in UK was inconceivable. 
In Ireland and England I have heard of investigative reporters ending up dead.  I cant remember all the names but I do know one thing - the system is rotten to the core and good people or children  no longer have guaranteed protection.  The system is corrupt and you can inadvertantly step on someones toes.  By ending up in the child care system, the child may face a worse ordeal.
 Epsteins madam (who trained the young girls) and the other names in the black book - none have been brought to justice. The FBI has all the tapes he used to blackmail high officials. After Epstein's  convenient death it all died down.  It seems the entire bunch were connected to CIA, MI 5 and Mossad .....he was an asset of these organizations.... and part of the MKUltra type experiments on children. 
Do any of you know about MKULTRA?  Secret experiments by the US government on children?  To see what abuse does to them ?  MKULTRA is just one of many such projects where research psychiatrists were part of the problem....MI5 /6 and CIA,are linked....... but that is another subject. 
Do not be misled.  This world system is no longer based on the older biblical values. It is not what we believe it to be any longer.  
I try to stay close to jehovah and stay out of the world as much as possible.  I do believe to be informed....so I can warn friends and walk wisely..... but I want nothing to do with the world's filth.  The individuals who bring dishonor on Jehovahs name - well the bible tells us about the outcome of those who live double lives.
The law is the law - unmerciful, not compassionate, especially if you are poor or uninfluential.. .  If you are rich....or influential.....other laws apply - one can get away with more than murder..... 
Last note:  the secret investigative  organizations have become  so powerful. They claim anything as 'priviledged information'.   Consequently,  pockets within CIA have turned rogue and protect each other. They hide behind the statutes which protect their information.  
Organizations such as' judicial watch'  have a hard time to get information out of them.   They have to sue by law to get information they are entitled to. Then after two years (the limit to receive requested information)  they take them to court and can only  get "redacted" information. 
The corruption in some of these organizations is high because it has allowed powerful enclaves to develop within the military industrial complex and the secret investigative organizations. These people are like mafia - a law unto themselves.
Like Rome, the rot from within has been USA's downfall.  USA will soon no longer be the power it has been in the past.... then the eighth government will have power for a short time.....(as the bible indicates)  and the king of the north will control the wealth.   Daniel 11 from verse 40. These new governments will claim that their digital surveillance systems will lessen crime but it will become a highly controlled environment where those with power have full say (total power) over the ordinary   people's lives.
No doubt, child trafficking will still go on but governments will know all about it. I read recently that a 9 month baby fetus is worth 40,000 dollars.  I have no doubt that this is the reason behind the new laws.  China has been doing this since it's one child policy..... picking up pregnant women just before giving birth to a second child, removing the baby and sterilizing the parent and then just throwing the mother out anywhere on the street.  Listened to an interview made in China in secret. 
 
 

When we read Matthew 13: 24 onwards (the illustration of the weeds and the wheat) we can see what happened to start the Christian part of Babylon the Great.
Satan sowed wicked seeds amongst the wheat.  People in the congregation contaminated the congregation with wicked philosophies and practices. Many of these ideas came in from the Greek and Roman philosophies (which were contaminated by ancient Babylonian ideas).
The apostles held these pagan and wicked influences back (but after apostle John died -about 100 CE - ) these pagan ideas later became entrenched and even  later institutionalized  in the powerful churches. 
Today most witnesses give up their memberships in other religions - be it Hindu, Islam, christendom etc. They get out of Babylon the Great as individuals.  They are then known as Witnesses of Jehovah. They also do not participate or take sides in any political parties, political issues or any form of nationalistic events. We do not pay homage to national symbols/national days or go to war.  These are practices which are an identifying part of Babylon the Great 's harlotry...... the harlotry with the political systems (kings) of the world. Rev 17: 1-3.
Since the beasts in Daniel depict four succeeding world powers (2 are identified in Daniel 8 as Medea-Persia and Greece)  the beast in Revelation 13 depicts the world political system.  The beast in Rev 13 has all the combined features of the 4 beasts (empires) mentioned in Daniel 7 & 8. 
So how does this fit in with Babylon the Great?  Religion which rides (influences) the beast (UN and conglomerate) or commits fornication with the kings of the earth,  is doomed.  If one gets the mark of the beast with seven heads or the image of the beast you will be a spiritual harlot.  There are only two sides:  loyalty to the future kingdom government of jehovah God OR  loyalty by your actions of mind and hand (slaves were marked on the head or hand)  to earthly governments.
JWs believe that only the future government of God can solve all of the world's problems and therefore believe that only this government can bring true peace and security to the globe.  Other religions still put faith in humans governments to keep peace and security and will believe the human governments when they say they have achieved "peace and security" before the start of Armageddon.
1 tess 5: Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.  3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.  4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves,  
 
Since we are dealing with a world political system, a worldwide religious and financial  system which is not according to gods wish for mankind - the bible indicates all three will be destroyed at Armageddon-  we must be careful to not attribute regional fulfillments to these proohecies.   It is events that will happen on global scale because satan is the ruler of the entire globe. He is behind all false religion, all bad and oppressive human governments and the financial system. 

Yes, this system has become so evil/vile and full of corruption that one cannot even trust governments to do the right thing any longer. The theatrical  divisions in government is an indication of what is going on below the unseen surface. 
True justice is something from the past.  This is how I really see this  worldly governmental system at present. There are many good people still left but they are helpless to do anything any longer because the system is now rigged with powerful 'wicked' people against them in all the right places - on top.
Children are not safe in the child care system any longer where large pockets of child trafficking has been covered up and child syndicates have now become international. Private companies and criminal gangs have gained control of the child care system in some areas and can pick from  the vulnerable children still in their parent's care. Not the entire child care system is wicked but pockets exist where governors or high officials close him are in on the game. I have listened to a few hair- raising stories while cooking.
Jeffrey Epstein's story is one of more..... where airplanes are used to transport young children around and they end up visiting private homes and parties etc.....pizza gate stories surface. ......and it is prevalent in the top echelons of society.  Both UK and USA involved. Part of Epsteins black book was released  (I cannot remember if it was by hackers) and top British officials were included.  Britain it has a long history of child sex, with PM Ted Heath one of them, royals, child TV presenters etc.
Prince Andrew was grilled because a few photos of him surfaced in the tabloids but the Clinton's are untouchable. Saw a new photo of mr Clinton recently with a young girl of Epsteins trafficked group. Absolutely nothing in the press afterwards. 
True investigative reporters and true whistleblowers end up dead in USA and UK and it is ruled a suicide.  Cover-up is all over. Watched a 60 minute recently where people spoke of one corroner always called out in in top cases. His history of false death reports was exposed. He was working with top officials.
Corruption in  law enforcement is high. I know of several policemen who ended up dead. Listened to one (fbi/cia -i forgot) who fled to Moscow.... to save his life and spoke about the corruption high up.... no longer safe to be a real (not fake) whistleblower.
Listened to a soldier's story recently  where she said she was moved to a new base  that was weird. The rules were different. She was targeted because she asked questions. She said money was disappearing from the ledgers.  Inadvertently by photocopying  the ledgers and proving financial  corruption ........she uncovered a child sex ring - trafficking. ......  She realised higher people were involved in the money scam when she was targeted after she went whistleblowing to higher officials ....but not in her wildest dreams did she suspect that  children were involved..... That only came out in the full investigation..... She had appealed to central government....as a last resort. She heard of a death at the base - a suicide before she came. She was suspicious.   True whistleblowers are in danger now .......because perpetrators are protected by powerful people.
This is why I think - the water on the top of this worldly system looks acceptable (it has the appearance that it is not yet a complete lunatic asylum)  but when one peers one centimeter below the surface -  the world has become  a paranna tank.  First world countries, where a lot of money can be made, is now the same as third world countries, totally corrupt.  Child trafficking is up there with drugs in revenue.
Citizens are no longer protected. Daily people are knived to death in Europe..... officials know what is the problem is but refuse to acknowledge it or write about it in the press. It is a taboo subject. People shout the extremist words when killing Jews or infidels.... but the officials "still have to determine the reason".  With child trafficking it has become the same scenario. One investigative organization blames the other for not doing a good job. America has something like 18 organizations similar to FBI and they all pass the buck to one another when bad things do manage to surface....
Brave whistleblowers in the child care system are harrassed by law and even lose their homes, and put into institutions under false names so family members cannot find them.  I listened to a former child service official's story  a while back - what they did to her in UK was inconceivable. 
In Ireland and England I have heard of investigative reporters ending up dead.  I cant remember all the names but I do know one thing - the system is rotten to the core and good people or children  no longer have guaranteed protection.  The system is corrupt and you can inadvertantly step on someones toes.  By ending up in the child care system, the child may face a worse ordeal.
 Epsteins madam (who trained the young girls) and the other names in the black book - none have been brought to justice. The FBI has all the tapes he used to blackmail high officials. After Epstein's  convenient death it all died down.  It seems the entire bunch were connected to CIA, MI 5 and Mossad .....he was an asset of these organizations.... and part of the MKUltra type experiments on children. 
Do any of you know about MKULTRA?  Secret experiments by the US government on children?  To see what abuse does to them ?  MKULTRA is just one of many such projects where research psychiatrists were part of the problem....MI5 /6 and CIA,are linked....... but that is another subject. 
Do not be misled.  This world system is no longer based on the older biblical values. It is not what we believe it to be any longer.  
I try to stay close to jehovah and stay out of the world as much as possible.  I do believe to be informed....so I can warn friends and walk wisely..... but I want nothing to do with the world's filth.  The individuals who bring dishonor on Jehovahs name - well the bible tells us about the outcome of those who live double lives.
The law is the law - unmerciful, not compassionate, especially if you are poor or uninfluential.. .  If you are rich....or influential.....other laws apply - one can get away with more than murder..... 
Last note:  the secret investigative  organizations have become  so powerful. They claim anything as 'priviledged information'.   Consequently,  pockets within CIA have turned rogue and protect each other. They hide behind the statutes which protect their information.  
Organizations such as' judicial watch'  have a hard time to get information out of them.   They have to sue by law to get information they are entitled to. Then after two years (the limit to receive requested information)  they take them to court and can only  get "redacted" information. 
The corruption in some of these organizations is high because it has allowed powerful enclaves to develop within the military industrial complex and the secret investigative organizations. These people are like mafia - a law unto themselves.
Like Rome, the rot from within has been USA's downfall.  USA will soon no longer be the power it has been in the past.... then the eighth government will have power for a short time.....(as the bible indicates)  and the king of the north will control the wealth.   Daniel 11 from verse 40. These new governments will claim that their digital surveillance systems will lessen crime but it will become a highly controlled environment where those with power have full say (total power) over the ordinary   people's lives.
No doubt, child trafficking will still go on but governments will know all about it. I read recently that a 9 month baby fetus is worth 40,000 dollars.  I have no doubt that this is the reason behind the new laws.  China has been doing this since it's one child policy..... picking up pregnant women just before giving birth to a second child, removing the baby and sterilizing the parent and then just throwing the mother out anywhere on the street.  Listened to an interview made in China in secret. 
 
 

By secular laws - by worldly laws - they can be classified as clergy.   By Jehovahs laws-  definitely not. 
Please start to understand that we live in the world - we cannot go out of the world.... so worldly laws apply to us when we go to court.   In court they will apply the law in this traditional way.