Arauna

@Anna Now that you mentioned it I remember that too. So far no information I had seen in the UK regarding the mental ill person who committed the act. For the past few months I was focused on not just my ministry, but grave things concerning csa in several parts of the world.
@Arauna The UK is far worse when it comes to child abuse. So much as so, some even commit the idea that the gov't let's certain folks go, while some who they do not recognize are the ones to be sent away; locked up.

@AlanF Minority Faiths are not declining, only the major ones. As for the major ones, even to this day, it is being surpassed by some minorities, this includes JWs and Non-Trinitarian faiths, however what is above both major and minor faiths is Islam, whereas in the UK (and or EU), is is rapidly increasing.

In the past university professors were hoodwinked. Social services placed children back in the homes with pedophile fathers. 
Arrogance! I bet you only speak English well but expect others to write your "style".   Many here speak several languages of which English is not their first language.
Another arrogant  individual who  by his language shows what really is going on  in his upper storey.

That idea must have come from the idea of 23 universes in string "theory"..... oh you are so smart! Congratulate yourself. .... 

I think that if there were a lot of new things, many folks would just complain that it represents things we had wrong and had to change. The basic foundational beliefs have been around for quite a while, and we wouldn't expect any big changes in any of these. But we've gained a simpler message even though most of the "deeper" ideas are not discarded.
I think that we can be a bit humbler now because we aren't so often trying to compare our level of scholarship with others. We are not into the scholarship that proves the Trinity wrong, or Christmas wrong, even though we understand that our position on these things is much better than Christendom's.
I think we are wrong on a couple of less important doctrines that should be revisited in a scholarly manner. But if the WTS decided to never revisit some of these things, and could help us completely replace our concern instead with showing love to our fellow believers, and then showing love to our neighbor, and helping us learn patience, humility, peace, joy, love, kindness, moral cleanness, I would not care at all about a couple of mistaken doctrines.

Welcome, @AlanF! I am sorry that I did not notice here before. A little bird had to rattle my cage.
The JWs here (or anywhere) are all liars and disgusting apologists. It is good that you are expose the lies of Mommy. Only a reminder as regards TTH:
Yes. But you are not very thorough, I have found. No matter how many of his disgusting, vile, reprehensible, flatulent, odious, debased, toe-sucking qualities of his you highlight, there will always be a few that you forget to mention. Please consult me during those times for assistance. 
Yes again. It stands for World Trade Federation. If these JWs had more education—they are the stupidest creatures on two feet—they would know that.

César Chávez said:
 
 
How can you prove they're baseless? Do you have complete knowledge of all these things?
You only call the accusations baseless based on your virtual worship of the Governing Body, namely, putting them in place of God.
And of course, as I implied, your rationalization makes you a coward: you're afraid that a Watchtower official will confirm what I said.
I already told you several times: there is no proof, but lots of evidence collected over 25 years from many sources.
Gobble-de-goop.
More gobble-de-goop. Once again, try using Grammarly.
LOL! You are trying to instruct me in proper English usage?
We note that you made two grammar errors in the above sentence: (1) You should have used "its" not "it's"; (2) you should have used "definitions" not "definition" since there is more than one word in the English language.
Rather, let me instruct you: English words, like Spanish words, often have subtly different meanings. "Apologist" is one. The definition you posted is one, but there are others. The one you posted is not the most common usage. The most common usage is:
<< One who speaks or writes in defense of a faith, a cause, or an institution. >>
That's the sense in which I used it.
Related meanings are:
<< one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something
a person who makes a defense in speech or writing of a belief, idea, etc.
a person who writes or speaks in defense or justification of a doctrine, faith, action, etc.
A person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution.
a person who supports a particular belief or political system, especially an unpopular one, and speaks or writes in defence of it >>
Note that the "something" does not have to be controversial or unpopular.
People like you, who offer defenses of the JW religion, are apologists.
People like me, who offer criticisms of the JW religion, are critics, not apologists.
You're still confusing "apologist" with "critic". Perhaps looking up the equivalents in Spanish will let you get your head on straight.
And of course, you're so dishonest that you still refuse to admit that you messed up when you copy/pasted "apologists" wrongly, thus causing you to double down on a ridiculously stupid argument.

It was believed, until quite recently, that every sinner can change. Even homosexual pedophiles. "This is what some of you were", says Paul at 1 Cor. 6:11.  I am assuming when Greenlees was appointed, it was believed he belonged in that category of "some of you were, but are no longer". The appointment, as all appointments are, was based on qualifications outlined in 1Timothy 3:1-7. I am assuming he met those qualifications at the time he was named. It is now understood (although I believe the society balked at first, being convinced that the scripture applies in absolutely every case, no exceptions)  that people with these problems are for the most part incurable, but can fool others, including themselves, into thinking that they are cured. I find it difficult to believe this man would be appointed, knowing he still had that problem. What would be the purpose? Surely there would be plenty of other brothers, and there were, I think 18 at that time. For JWS, the Bible is a template for practically EVERYTHING. Much to the irritation of people who wonder how can someone be directed by a book thousands of years old. Without a doubt, JWS have made mistakes in their interpretation of some Bible passages.  Perhaps one of these mistakes was misunderstanding the scripture at 1 Cor 6:11. It can not mean that those who have "been made clean", will always stay clean or that they are cured. We know that from evidence. Greenlees being a case in point. The scripture is talking about those particular disciples, it does not mean it applies across the board, to every single person especially with regard to homosexuality. The apostle Paul had to pummel his body, and lead it as a slave, and he was just an ordinary sinner, no homosexual or pedophile. So no one is ever going to be faultless and yet, according to the scriptures, they have the potential to be forgiven and accepted by God if they stop.  With regard to the sickness of pedophilia, these people have got to be kept away from children, so that they are not able to molest them, and so that children are safe, because they cannot stop.Today, no one who has a history of CSA, can ever serve in any capacity in the congregation, ever. We have an old man in our cong. who has some kind of history in the distant past, and he is not allowed to do anything, except comment, and he must be accompanied by a brother in FS, without exception.
Part of the changes are no doubt due to the ARC, and the recognition of the truthfulness of some of the issues raised there. But I am sure that some of it has been because it was recognized that in the past, elders had been hoodwinked into thinking that someone with pedophilic tendencies has been reformed, and will never repeat the offense again. This realisation was unfortunately at the cost of other children being molested, not just the original child.
So, if it was today, Greenlees would have never been appointed not only as GB member, but he would have never become an elder or ministerial servant either.
 
@Vic Vomidog stop it!

I remember when you first posted here, all wet behind the ears and bewildered. You soon realised this was not a 'unicorn pooping rainbows' Witness only site, and stopped taking everything opposers said so seriously. All in all I would say it's been a good learning curve, for me too,  and I bet nothing anyone throws at you in the future will shock you anymore 😀
 

So true. I am not impressed with his so-called knowledge.  Hard to reason with anyone who ignores or spurnes other people's reasonable arguments and just grabs something egotistically he can elaborate on which  is a form of intellectual bullying. It does not get my respect.
It seems he has done a lot of research about the inner circle problems the GB had at one time - to the extent where it can be called a  tabloid with all the little titbits about the rumours about some individual's sexuality and preferences ..... real gossip column stuff..... etc. 
I do not read tabloids and neither will I bother to get the inside story on which GB member did what to whom.  As I demonstrated earlier: Jehovah himself appointed a loser in Saul.  Jesus appointed Judas iscariot...... so who are we to get it right every time?  Tests come in all forms and can be exasperating.  Some will lose faith because they put trust in men.  (I know the truth and I know where I learnt it).    Many top brothers may fall out and do bad things  but my faith in the core truths are solid.  Yes, there may still be shame in the pipeline as retro-active law suits are placed.  That is inevitable and part of life as there are Judas' and Sauls everywhere who bring shame on Jehovahs name.  
He is not interested in reason or justice, just destruction.  To win at all cost....... not the ideal kind of person to reason with...... why would he respect a human when he does not respect God?

So true. I am not impressed with his so-called knowledge.  Hard to reason with anyone who ignores or spurnes other people's reasonable arguments and just grabs something egotistically he can elaborate on which  is a form of intellectual bullying. It does not get my respect.
It seems he has done a lot of research about the inner circle problems the GB had at one time - to the extent where it can be called a  tabloid with all the little titbits about the rumours about some individual's sexuality and preferences ..... real gossip column stuff..... etc. 
I do not read tabloids and neither will I bother to get the inside story on which GB member did what to whom.  As I demonstrated earlier: Jehovah himself appointed a loser in Saul.  Jesus appointed Judas iscariot...... so who are we to get it right every time?  Tests come in all forms and can be exasperating.  Some will lose faith because they put trust in men.  (I know the truth and I know where I learnt it).    Many top brothers may fall out and do bad things  but my faith in the core truths are solid.  Yes, there may still be shame in the pipeline as retro-active law suits are placed.  That is inevitable and part of life as there are Judas' and Sauls everywhere who bring shame on Jehovahs name.  
He is not interested in reason or justice, just destruction.  To win at all cost....... not the ideal kind of person to reason with...... why would he respect a human when he does not respect God?

The rafter is in your eye........ you have the agenda.  I have none.  I just love jehovah.  Simple.

Do some of your guys spend your life on the web, going from blog to blog / forum to forum ?  How many JW / Ex JW 'sites' are  there ? I'd rather go for a long walk in the countryside and see what God has created, myself, but each to their own  
 

Look, I like you, and all. I really do. Besides, I owe you for constructive criticism of my books. I share your prioritization of the overall picture and your frustration at some ragged human edges.
So should I play this way? Hmm. Ah, well, I have a touch of OCD. Everyone knows it. I’ll ask for forgiveness later:
“Now the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and Satan also entered among them. Then Jehovah said to Satan:
I mean, come on!
There! Now, a couple of caveats. Of course, he is not the devil. Nor is it the whistleblower talk that prompts the characterization. It is the atheism in combination with his relentless opposition—he has spurned and opposes EVERYTHING, not just characters of the past that appear squirrelly. And his plain self-worship, as manifest by his need to correct every little detail....who does THAT remind you of?
Nor, obviously, are you Jehovah—any more than I am. 
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/11/oh-no-i-would-never-presume-to-compare-myself-with-the-most-high-god.html

Thanks for the compliment - you seem to take offence pretty quickly - which indicates a bit of an ego. I am not "brought in"   ..... I butt in by my own free will..... and I do not need your permission.... lol. 
I just wish to remind you that I do have a different viewpoint to most people here (because I am African and we call a spade a spade)  and while I do not have a debating spirit - I have never seen the need to "win" an argument - I have a viewpoint and an opinion which can enhance understanding from a different perspective - that is all.  If you see no use in it that is your choice. 
And for your accusation about insults - I think you do pretty well at it yourself!

Thanks for the compliment - you seem to take offence pretty quickly - which indicates a bit of an ego. I am not "brought in"   ..... I butt in by my own free will..... and I do not need your permission.... lol. 
I just wish to remind you that I do have a different viewpoint to most people here (because I am African and we call a spade a spade)  and while I do not have a debating spirit - I have never seen the need to "win" an argument - I have a viewpoint and an opinion which can enhance understanding from a different perspective - that is all.  If you see no use in it that is your choice. 
And for your accusation about insults - I think you do pretty well at it yourself!

I think that things LOST are a better topic.  Get rid of all unneccessary baggage so the the truth that we already have becomes brighter and lighter. 
We LOST the habit of smoking for one...... something which is allowed and even promoted by other religions.  Islam allows NO alcohol but members smoke and use drugs.  Many in Sweden smuggle weapons and drugs.........and politics is an integral part of the religion. (I preach to Arab speaking populations and recently moved from Sweden to Rep. Of Georgia.)
The necessity for love is emphasised at meetings and to encourage one another as times become increasingly hard to deal with.  The emphasis of GB is now to assist us to get through the hard times and to maintain ENDURANCE during persecution.  I find this important because my friends and family in South Africa are all enduring a terrible time (dangerous) and do not know how to make a living as the infrastructure of the country is  quickly falling apart.
The need to NOT participate or take sides in politics (not even in your heart) has been emphasized........ In comparison, there is a cold civil war going on in most countries in the West with the " iron and clay"  becoming so extreme -  irreconcileable divided. Satan's propaganda (Rev 16: 14-16)  is leading people to Armageddon and racial and political animosity is growing everywhere! 
The need to NOT choose your own good and bad like Adam and Eve did but remain faithful to Jehovah's moral standards.  This in a world where they are forcing LGBTQ ...... and soon the P on us.  In Scandinavia we received fines for the clip showed at the convention about the pink bow .  Non-muslims go to jail for saying things on Facebook in Scandinavia and UK.
We already have the toolbox and the tools to get us through Armageddon. Now it is just a matter if keeping us clean and functional for Jehovah so we can maintain integrity..

There is a lot of evidence that on the whole the organization has God's blessing, in spite of the "scandals". Here are just a few examples of observations from  outsiders: "It is a rare sight for people of widely different nationalities and cultures to bond together with such warm affection, although total strangers to one another........... With such a big crowd reaching several thousands, crowd control could have been quite a nightmare. But what the authorities and others saw surprised them. Pasay City police chief Col. Bernard Yang personally dropped in at the convention area and said, “Your preparations are perfect. We of the police unit assigned here for crowd control had felt no stress. Your people are very disciplined and followed all pedestrian rules. They’re all smiles too.” .............. It appears the convention’s theme “Love Never Fails” has proved not just a matter of faith, but a matter of personal conduct for Jehovah’s Witnesses, wherever they may be, in every aspect of their life......etc.
I do not think so many people could pretend, and make this happen, unless they were genuine, and unless they had a measure of God's blessing. In the congregations, individuals feel blessed that they have learned God's standards regarding living a clean life (not smoking, not taking drugs, morality etc.) because they were able to avoid many of the consequences and heartaches these things bring with them. They also feel confident and blessed about a good future for the earth, which many people, even religious ones, do not feel. They also feel confident and blessed about their reward, whether it be earthly or heavenly.
Yes, Jesus Christ died for everyone.
Personally? No I don't think that. It would be illogical to think so because there are so many who will never be given an opportunity to be in JW org. There are 8 million Witnesses, and 8 billion people on earth, so statistically it's an impossibility to reach everyone.
No, the GB said that saying we were trying to protect pedophiles were apostate lies. Not that sexual abuse never happened.
Wait and see 🙂. And we know Jesus's Kingdom won't be full of hypocrites.
Yes, leave it to them.

So much of what you say can be used against the JW Org. 
Some people accept what JW 's say in a so called Bible Study. I know for fact that here in the UK during a study JW's  say things like 'If you don't understand that we will come back to it later, but just accept it for now'.  (Yes I've sat in on bible studies). 
Brainwashing in JW Org "deprive students of critical thinking skills".  
Hence when some JW's do start to think, and start to study God's word personally,  they tend to leave the Org. 

Do you offer eternal life or eternal strife?  It is easy to judge and take the splinter from GB eyes..... when the beam is in your own.  

I appreciate your consorted effort and passion. I cannot agree that the Org has not been proactive in making every attempt to address a human problem inflicted by evil forces inclined to divide Christians.
I also agree with the firsthand accounts and insight that Arauna has placed before us to reflect on. It is refreshing to see such an astute person with great knowledge to lead with facts. It is better to have gone through personal experience to give accounts a better understanding than secondhand accounts that might be questioned.
I can direct you to all the articles relating to child abuse since 1956 to 2019. These submitted articles are but an illustration of how the ORG has addressed child abuse from many standpoints of view.
*** w56 9/15 p. 563 pars. 11-12 Theocratic Marriage in an Alien World ***
What is wrong about a bride price or lobola is the abuse that is made of it. It is wrong, unchristian, untheocratic, to treat it, not as a compensation, but as a means of making money off one’s own child or children, and then charge excessively or extort more than what is right or require what works a hardship.
12 God hates all extortioners, including bride-price extortioners, who commercialize their own daughters. Any such greedy person that claims to be a Christian puts himself in the way of excommunication or disfellowshiping from the Christian congregation any and every time that he commits extortion in the case of lobola or bride price
 *** g73 9/8 pp. 29-30 Watching the World ***
Tomorrow’s Parents
♦ Few are aware of the 500-percent increase in known cases of child abuse in the past decade, says a report to the American Medical Association. Called a “national disgrace,” abuse is America’s leading killer of children under five. The report estimates 50,000 deaths and 300,000 permanent physical or emotional injuries this year. Far-reaching effects were noted: “It is a disease of violence that breeds more violence, for the abused children of today, if they survive, will grow up to be the abusing parents of tomorrow.” This destructive spiral produces more anger, hate and criminality until “some day very few of us will be able to go out on the streets.”
 *** tp chap. 14 p. 155 Respect for the Gift of Life *** 1986
Respect for Your Own Life
Violent behavior attributed to alcohol use accounts for approximately 65% of murders, 40% of assaults, 35% of rapes, 30% of other sex crimes, 30% of suicides, 55% of fights or assaults in the home and 60% of cases of child abuse.
*** w19 May p. 7 par. 25 Love and Justice in the Christian Congregation ***
25 How thankful we are to be under the law of the Christ! When all of us work hard to obey it, we help to make our congregation a place where each individual can feel loved, valued, and safe. Still, we are living in a world where “wicked men” have advanced “from bad to worse.” (2 Tim. 3:13) We must not let down our guard. How can the Christian congregation reflect God’s justice when dealing with child sexual abuse?
 The question that Arauna raises is a valid one. How can any organization read the minds of their followers or employees? Any further suggestions, I will leave that to your conscience and heart.
https://www.nealdavislaw.com/criminal-defense-guides/exonerations-by-state-2019.html
 

I agree. Do you know the United States cannot be sued unless it allows it to be sued? The USA has immunity no different from that of individual States.
If they didn’t have that immunity, imagine the millions of lawsuits against it for child abuse would be filed. It would mean the USA had failed its citizens for allowing hundreds of thousands of child abusers in their country.
I figure if a country is allowing civil lawsuits across the board for institutions, they should be included. Those advocating for child protection should then voice their advocacy to be fair. Meaning if institutions are at fault for allowing child abuse through no real fault of their own, then governments and their citizens should bear the same responsibility. This would include those advocates that have done nothing wrong but their government has.
If the argument is to have substance, then it should be fair and above board.

By your words you  judge ALL of gods people..... A very low percentage of witnesses committed child molestation - something which is very hard to prove. Few people know that even university professionals did not know for a very long time what to do about this problem. Most professionals for many years allowed the child to go back into the home of the perpetrator- did you know this history of the professionals at universities?
It is easy to judge.... something I have noticed you do all the time (it is the automatic OCD-mode).  Since you are always using scriptures in deceitful way...... here is one for you...... 
James:  " the tongue represents a world of unrighteousness among our body members, for it defiles all the body and sets the whole course of life on fire, and it is set on fire by Ge·henʹna.  ...... Stop speaking against one another, brothers. Whoever speaks against a brother or judges his brother speaks against law and judges law. Now if you judge law, you are not a doer of law but a judge. "
You are talking about the massive database of 1200 persons which happened from the years 1950's until present day?  About 70 years?  
There were NO laws in place in most countries until 1980s...... this was a taboo subject is most countries and there was no legislation in place. Most organizations that worked with children just turned a blind eye - there is no proof of them doing anything!
JWs kept databases to inform other congregations of problems - so suspected perpetrators could not move from congregation to congregation.  They were the only organization to do this-  and they are the ones who are denegraded for this and received media focus...... . Other organizations working with children did NOTHING.  More than 2000 organizations were asked about procedures during the Australian enquiry - but enemies of JWs only focus on JW statistics because they kept them......
By the way - the last legislation was passed in 2003- if I remember correctly.  This made it easier in court to get a conviction. Before this date the young child could be cross-examined in court in front of the perpetrator! 
 
 
 

Arauna, you continue to revert back to entities outside of the organization to “compare” sins.  1 Pet 4:17
If this is the case, the organization is no better than any other.  But if it truly was “Jehovah’s organization”, it should be better, shouldn’t it.  After all, it boasts it is the way to spiritual salvation and “righteousness”.  Righteous practices are so far removed from the GB's agenda when it comes to child abuse.  
God’s WORD judges His anointed people. 2 Pet 3:5-7   Since the GB choose to follow their own “words”, their ordinances concerning child abuse, your scriptures in James aptly applies…to them.   2 Pet 3:10; Jer 23:29
The prophet’s words are not so archaic that they do not apply to God’s people today.  
 
Rev 18:4-8
 

If a person was involved in wrongdoing  the elders cannot STOP them to move to a new location - only inform the new location. This (jws) is NOT a dictatorship...... a word you love to use. ..... ONE minute you judge us for being too harsh and the next that we are too soft? Heh?   Perfect logic? Want to eat pie on BOTH sides..... 
Would you like it if you committed fornication or  some other act if the entire act was announced to the congregation?   Where does mercy begin and harshness end?    Thank goodness humans are not the judge but Jehovah and his son.   If someone from outside congregation attends our meetings parents must watch their children.   It is not our place to decide  who is worthy of everlasting life.
Again: must we tell this person they are not welcome ?  Throw them out?  Especially when the top government officials are coverring up these kind of  crimes when people have money..... so NO redemption for the poor?   
It is EASY to judge and break down when your own sense if justice is aske. Jah sees it from both sides.
Study the laws that were in place and do not judge us by the current laws retroactively  but by the neglect of congress (regress) to not put proper laws in place. 
You have the idea that JWs live in a protected bubble. What you do not realize is that  individuals can deviate from Jehovahs standards and bring dishonor to jehovah AND those who serve him -  just as you are doing with your OCD opus operandi of hate