Jump to content
The World News Media

Arauna

Member
  • Posts

    4,634
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    119

Reputation Activity

  1. Downvote
    Arauna got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    If a person was involved in wrongdoing  the elders cannot STOP them to move to a new location - only inform the new location. This (jws) is NOT a dictatorship...... a word you love to use. ..... ONE minute you judge us for being too harsh and the next that we are too soft? Heh?   Perfect logic? Want to eat pie on BOTH sides..... 
    Would you like it if you committed fornication or  some other act if the entire act was announced to the congregation?   Where does mercy begin and harshness end?    Thank goodness humans are not the judge but Jehovah and his son.   If someone from outside congregation attends our meetings parents must watch their children.   It is not our place to decide  who is worthy of everlasting life.
    Again: must we tell this person they are not welcome ?  Throw them out?  Especially when the top government officials are coverring up these kind of  crimes when people have money..... so NO redemption for the poor?   
    It is EASY to judge and break down when your own sense if justice is aske. Jah sees it from both sides.
    Study the laws that were in place and do not judge us by the current laws retroactively  but by the neglect of congress (regress) to not put proper laws in place. 
    You have the idea that JWs live in a protected bubble. What you do not realize is that  individuals can deviate from Jehovahs standards and bring dishonor to jehovah AND those who serve him -  just as you are doing with your OCD opus operandi of hate
     
  2. Like
    Arauna reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    Witness which I suspect is you,  
    Is this rubbish really going to start again. I was following this blog / forum long before I chose to join it, and one reason I didn't join earlier was reading all the horrid stupidity of people saying, x was y, and you must be he, and telling one person that they had three different user names just to give themselves up votes etc etc, 
    It is obviously people that are losing a debate / discussion, or people who feel hurt by someone's comments. BUT it does no good to the blog as a whole. Just wastes everyone's time. 
     
  3. Haha
    Arauna got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in If JWs told people their real motivation for knocking at their doors on the initial call.   
    Now those few words tell me you hate all goodness or decency.  We understand fully why you hate JWs.   There is no respect and logic in the cesspit where those words were thought up.
  4. Downvote
    Arauna got a reaction from Matthew9969 in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    By your words you  judge ALL of gods people..... A very low percentage of witnesses committed child molestation - something which is very hard to prove. Few people know that even university professionals did not know for a very long time what to do about this problem. Most professionals for many years allowed the child to go back into the home of the perpetrator- did you know this history of the professionals at universities?
    It is easy to judge.... something I have noticed you do all the time (it is the automatic OCD-mode).  Since you are always using scriptures in deceitful way...... here is one for you...... 
    James:  " the tongue represents a world of unrighteousness among our body members, for it defiles all the body and sets the whole course of life on fire, and it is set on fire by Ge·henʹna.  ...... Stop speaking against one another, brothers. Whoever speaks against a brother or judges his brother speaks against law and judges law. Now if you judge law, you are not a doer of law but a judge. "
    You are talking about the massive database of 1200 persons which happened from the years 1950's until present day?  About 70 years?  
    There were NO laws in place in most countries until 1980s...... this was a taboo subject is most countries and there was no legislation in place. Most organizations that worked with children just turned a blind eye - there is no proof of them doing anything!
    JWs kept databases to inform other congregations of problems - so suspected perpetrators could not move from congregation to congregation.  They were the only organization to do this-  and they are the ones who are denegraded for this and received media focus...... . Other organizations working with children did NOTHING.  More than 2000 organizations were asked about procedures during the Australian enquiry - but enemies of JWs only focus on JW statistics because they kept them......
    By the way - the last legislation was passed in 2003- if I remember correctly.  This made it easier in court to get a conviction. Before this date the young child could be cross-examined in court in front of the perpetrator! 
     
     
     
  5. Upvote
    Arauna got a reaction from Melinda Mills in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    As I said before: eight old men who never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), mentioned in court documents while people like Epstein who had 37 cases against him in 2007 got off because the FBI covered up for him and went after the victims. A plea bargain made without the victim's lawyers informed.
    All Epstein's workers who knew what was going on since 2007, all his high-up friends and his girlfriend who coached the girls - NOTHING!   New cases in England as well where rape gangs raped young girls - covered up.
    What does that tell you about the condition of the world when the real unscrupulous predators go off free and the innocent who do NOT condone this, are accused.   
    People like you - who just go after JWs- get so much joy out of this......... but this tells me personally that when good is bad and bad is good, we are ever closer to Armageddon.
    Just a little while longer and the wicked will be no more....... thanks to Jehovah, Jesus is the judge.
  6. Downvote
    Arauna got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents   
    As I said before: eight old men who never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), mentioned in court documents while people like Epstein who had 37 cases against him in 2007 got off because the FBI covered up for him and went after the victims. A plea bargain made without the victim's lawyers informed.
    All Epstein's workers who knew what was going on since 2007, all his high-up friends and his girlfriend who coached the girls - NOTHING!   New cases in England as well where rape gangs raped young girls - covered up.
    What does that tell you about the condition of the world when the real unscrupulous predators go off free and the innocent who do NOT condone this, are accused.   
    People like you - who just go after JWs- get so much joy out of this......... but this tells me personally that when good is bad and bad is good, we are ever closer to Armageddon.
    Just a little while longer and the wicked will be no more....... thanks to Jehovah, Jesus is the judge.
  7. Like
    Arauna got a reaction from John H Slaughter in If JWs told people their real motivation for knocking at their doors on the initial call.   
    Now those few words tell me you hate all goodness or decency.  We understand fully why you hate JWs.   There is no respect and logic in the cesspit where those words were thought up.
  8. Thanks
    Arauna got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in WT Society and Religious Education   
    I think the christendom churches mentioned this a lot.  Some elder could have mentioned it in  a talk if he quoted secular magazines..... but I do not recall hearing of this in WT magazines.
  9. Upvote
    Arauna reacted to JW Insider in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    There's trust as in the type of trust you have in a trusted friend, and blind trust in someone who turned out not to be what you thought they were. I don't think of the organization as the religion we trust in. True religion is helping people who we can best help - materially, spiritually, emotionally -- with the proper unselfish, loving motivation, and therefore without spot from this world. An organization, i.e., a publishing house, researchers, coordinators, a legal department, etc., are just tools that a group of sincere Christians might be expected to utilize for a more efficient method of getting the word out in the midst of a complex world. It's not something to trust blindly as if it is Christianity, or even as if it represents true Christianity.
    (These are my opinions, of course.)
    I think that a lot of persons get baptized as Witnesses with a kind of naive view that the organization is more than it really is. This might even be true of new GB members who are asked to join that particular committee of elders. Perhaps they are surprised at the difference between reality and expectation. But I think they are better prepared, since they have already worked at various levels of the organization.
    I didn't mean to call myself JW Insider here. I intended to use "The Bible's Advocate" but when I joined someone was making a claim that was easily clarified by someone who had worked directly with members of the GB before. I had worked with members of the GB from 1976 to 1982. I worked directly for a member of the GB from about 1979 to 1982. I planned to tell some of the stories from that period, and therefore called myself "JW Insider" and allowed it to stick, in spite of some unintended implications.
    But I mention this because if a person can work with (and around) some of these same persons for a few years, then they are already prepared for an experience that is quite different from the expectation of the average Witness. They have seen them in a bad mood, they have seen them curse and yell, they have seen them make mistakes, they have seen their prejudices, seen them connive, possibly even be dishonest. I have seen all these things among a couple of them, but I'm obviously talking about exceptions to their usual conduct and demeanor. And for MOST of the members that I knew, I never saw any of these things, they always came across as perfect "saints." But I would not have been surprised to learn of a different side, because of what I had seen in a very few others, even if I only saw it rarely.
    I also had an advantage of an uncle who was a circuit overseer, and a grandmother and grandfather who seemed to know all the "big shots" from headquarters. (My great grandfather was a Chicago Bible Student who traveled with Russell and spoke at conventions with him.) But most of these relatives were apt to say things like, "Jehovah puts half of us here to test the other half," when referring to some of these same persons. Before going to Bethel, I heard a Circuit Overseer evoke laughter from another by asking, "Can you imagine how the Apostle Paul would have blown up if anyone told him he had to keep all these numbers [records] on everyone?"
    So, I probably come at some of these human imperfections from a different perspective than most. I'm hardly surprised at anything. My grandparents who knew Rutherford thought he was sleazy. My table head at Bethel had a personal "hatred" of him. But Russell himself was apparently dishonest, too, sometimes. Both Russell and Rutherford weren't defined by these errors, because their greater goal was to spread the word about the Kingdom hope amidst expectations of the imminent end. And now, we've gotten rid of most of that chronology rhetoric and spend more time highlighting the positive, life-changing aspects of the message. And I see a great value, like a pearl, in the overall set of teachings we stand for. And I do tend to fall back on how the Israelites had asked for a king and got a range of kings, from evil to good, but none perfect, of course.
    I am out for the rest of the day without much access, so I won't spend much time revisiting issues already covered. And I know the answers won't be satisfactory anyway. I should also say that I hope you don't lose your spirituality. Many exJWs do. Also, I wouldn't make too much of the fact that I used the word "apostate" when referring to the challenges you offer. I don't think of you as apostate as long as you are in a stage, as you describe, of anger and confusion. That could be understandable. I would hope you could see that there is a beautiful baby in that bathwater before you throw it all out.
  10. Upvote
    Arauna reacted to Anna in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    I think you've been missing the point all those years ago when you started studying with JWs.
  11. Like
    Arauna got a reaction from The Librarian in Jehovah's Witnesses Singing for Victory over the World Around Us. Will you join us?   
    Lovely.... almost sounds Jewish in its presentation. 
  12. Upvote
    Arauna got a reaction from Anna in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    Thank you for this reply. I showed it to a bible student. 
    To add a thought:  by this time,  most apostles had died and congregations had to learn to be more mature and function on their own. Many of the issues encountered by early congregations such as adherance to the law were resolved by the GB in Jerusalem.  Now they had to keep out apostacy (which was already present especially the Greek philosophy / influence in Greek congregations. Worship of individuals, or following has always been an inclination of some.....and John warns about this.
    Yet, individual responsibility - as you brought out- is prime.
  13. Upvote
    Arauna got a reaction from JW Insider in WT Society and Religious Education   
    My brother, the analytical chemist and toxicologist (researcher), went to prison for 3 years because he refused to assist the government in secret with poison to kill dissidents.  He later did research in metallurgy, and then programmed computers  for scientific projects.
    He wanted a break from programming and took a job in research with L'oreal cosmetics.  Research is his first love.  After a while the company started to pressure him to do a doctorate they needed. He resigned......  He would have loved to do it but realized it was a bad example to his sons and the congregation. 
    But in my experience, I have seen the blessings that come from sacrifice done in faith.  Just remaining strong in the truth is a blessing some do not really appreciate.
    University education is now a trap, especially with the new humanities.  I lost one of my best friends who did a masters in this newfangled social engineering sciences - He was like a son to me.  He is now apostate and I have not seen him for a few years.   The heartbreak of this made me realize the pitfalls of higher education anew.
     
  14. Upvote
    Arauna got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in RECOGNITION OF THE RULES OF NATURAL JUSTICE   
    Agreed, but they are not cowards to go up against a powerful machine as a government.  Many people in Germany hated the Nazis but went along with the propaganda and went to war because they were the true sheep/cowards and were afraid to face prison. 
  15. Upvote
    Arauna got a reaction from JW Insider in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    Just to mention one thought: churches teach the immortality of the soul - so even if they profess that they believe in the sacrifice of Jesus ..... they do not teach that Jesus "really" died. The bible says Jesus put his "soul" in death ...... he did not exist at all for 3 days but   after 3 days jehovah resurrected him with immortality. Jehovah  gave him immortality as a reward for his faithfulness.  He was the first to receive immortality.  
    I just want you to think how important it is that one must understand the death of Jesus to call yourself a Christian. I can bombard you with many scriptures to prove the above truth to you but I do not think this forum  is the place to do it.
    The same goes for the teachings about the Jehovah' s name, the future kingdom of God etc.  These CORE teachings of truth are not adjusted. Other things regarding prophecy, better understanding of illustrations etc time related teachings, have been adjusted..... but the core teachings - which make us totally different to all other religions  - is core teachings of truth from the bible.
    Hindus, Buddhists, Islam, and most other religions teach the immortality of the soul........ which is a lie from satan. Its origins come from ancient Babylon in teachings of the "underworld". Some of this has led to the teaching that people will burn forever in a literal fire because the soul cannot be destroyed..... it is immortal.   But the bible says: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.  Ezekiel 18:4. King James. 
    We were talking about modern times.  I should have remembered you always revert back  to the past.
    The GB are 'now' very careful to not infer anything which can be interpreted as a date for Armageddon because of the maliciousness of enemies who dig up things to accuse. 
  16. Upvote
    Arauna got a reaction from JW Insider in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    Thank you for this reply. I showed it to a bible student. 
    To add a thought:  by this time,  most apostles had died and congregations had to learn to be more mature and function on their own. Many of the issues encountered by early congregations such as adherance to the law were resolved by the GB in Jerusalem.  Now they had to keep out apostacy (which was already present especially the Greek philosophy / influence in Greek congregations. Worship of individuals, or following has always been an inclination of some.....and John warns about this.
    Yet, individual responsibility - as you brought out- is prime.
  17. Upvote
    Arauna got a reaction from JW Insider in WT Society and Religious Education   
    I came in the truth 45 years ago while a young student in Africa (lived there for 45 years). I have worked and lived also in USA (15 years), England, Sweden and now retired in Republic of Georgia. I worked as a reporter and after that in PR for several companies.
    I find most Americans (not all) myopic and inward looking and entitled. What I learnt in my travels is that 'cultures' give people certain values that they cling to - which can make them difficult and unadaptable.  And this is also true of people in the truth. Personality traits and values which are so ingrained that if the person is not prepared to work on it themself. Hence, they can make it almost impossible for Jehovah to work with them or for them to fit in. So some people - as a result of this, think the elders and GB are controlling.
    If they look closely - they will see the fault is their own.  Sweeping statements such as  "workbook " wich seem to be a mandatory way for preaching  shows an ignorance of the truth. It may come from deepseated rebellious inclination to any authority. 
    I work with youth in the fieldservice all the time. While they do not have the experience to talk off the cuff - I always do.   They follow the prescribed workbook ideas perfectly and do well enough but they can also see how my life experience, additional knowledge and knowledge of other countries,  can help a person with small talk and much else .  
    I watch politics all over the world and understand how large corporations work. Most of the criticism I see against GB comes from the inexperience of not understanding that the GB deal with a different set of laws in each country and had to learn the hard way that American law is not universal law....... and laws are not applied the same everywhere. 
    IF I were a GB member I would also have given the same preaching suggestions to new or shy people and encourage them to stay on topic so they can at least have a positive experience.  I am here in a foreign language congregation and the repetitive field presentations in the "workbook" help those who are learning a new language. A good question to always ask is this: what would I have done if I was a GP member?   
    OLDER  members who have heard the basics over the years at meetings definitely  like new ideas to meditate or "chew" on. So  I usually prepare and answer to this effect.... which usually gives young or newer ones in the congregation incentive to do more research.
    Recently we had a section on cleanliness.  Why?   Well,  I had a student/study from a very poor part of the world. Her children used to smell, she had no sheets on her beds, etc. Etc. They came to meetings this way.  We had to teach her these things.   Some countries  have merely the bare necessities - they do not use sheets...or have enough water to wash. So never be arrogant and view the GB as being "prescribing", silly or harsh.  How to feed your family in a healthy way with very little money is not a subject fit for USA but very important in other parts of the world.
    In Africa,  we have terrible practices which come from spiritism and superstition..... people sometimes revert back to old ideas..... so one has to speak to these persons and maybe discipline them.  Is this harshness or ensuring that Jehovahs standards are kept?  One always finds the personality type which is not easily adaptable.  If I tell a white person that they will share the paradise with a black person and they don't like it?  Who is closing the future hope of living in a paradise for themselves? The GB, the elders, me or the persons own bad attitude? 
    I am a natural rebel, could never follow rules and still hate rules. Dont like it when elders use a suggestion from GB to make it into a rule.  I have also seen them being corrected for doing this...... On the other hand, I also do realize the necessity to have a mild spirit, a yielding personality - not quick to criticise those who try to serve jehovah to the best of their ability. BUT I have also worked on obtaining a strong sense if what is right or wrong morally.....so I can smell an amorral  rat or thought quickly.  
    Do not be misled- I see secular attitudes on this forum all the time. Where brothers and sisters have lost the ability to see danger where it is lurking because they have become too secularised in their thinking.  After all?  Was the test of Adam and Eve not the choosing of their own morality (right and wrong which affects every situation in life) and the  rejecting of Jehovah's good and bad?    Never think you are "sophisticated" or "reasonable"  or "scholarly" when you adopt secularized opinions......and those in opposition to the bible.
    The GB and elders are there to keep suchlike ones from not influencing the flock.....
  18. Upvote
    Arauna got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in WT Society and Religious Education   
    My brother, the analytical chemist and toxicologist (researcher), went to prison for 3 years because he refused to assist the government in secret with poison to kill dissidents.  He later did research in metallurgy, and then programmed computers  for scientific projects.
    He wanted a break from programming and took a job in research with L'oreal cosmetics.  Research is his first love.  After a while the company started to pressure him to do a doctorate they needed. He resigned......  He would have loved to do it but realized it was a bad example to his sons and the congregation. 
    But in my experience, I have seen the blessings that come from sacrifice done in faith.  Just remaining strong in the truth is a blessing some do not really appreciate.
    University education is now a trap, especially with the new humanities.  I lost one of my best friends who did a masters in this newfangled social engineering sciences - He was like a son to me.  He is now apostate and I have not seen him for a few years.   The heartbreak of this made me realize the pitfalls of higher education anew.
     
  19. Upvote
    Arauna reacted to JW Insider in WT Society and Religious Education   
    This could be true for some. No one was telling me I couldn't go to college, though. Their concern was that it would set a poor example to appoint an elder and then the congregation simultaneously found out I was going to college. But if a congregation needs elders, there is almost no difference in the amount and types of assignments given to ministerial servants. Even as an MS, I had been giving 5 different public talks (3 from the outlines), and was still being invited to give some of them in different congregations every few weeks. I believe I had either the 15 minute "Instruction Talk" or a 15 minute part on the Service Meeting about 3 times a month. And I was not told I had to pioneer, while attending college, but had offered this idea as a way to show that college was a not a full time priority in my life. No one held me to it anyway, as I only could manage pioneering for two more years. In my third year I was offered a great job and started it before graduation.
    But still, it's always good counsel to give to anyone who is thinking about college, that they think about their priorities before making a decision. I've given the same counsel to others, but I make sure they still know it's their own choice, and we wish them all the best outcomes.
    But then 30 years later, the issue comes up again with my own children. The need to step down as an elder if your kids go to college is not enforced consistently, at least in the United States. When children get large scholarships it can make it more sensible economically to go to a four year college, but it still gives the impression that you are putting economic and material interests ahead of the urgency necessary based on the shortness of the time to the end. The issue of setting a good example is not just for the congregation, but also the fact that you might not even have your own family in "subjection." Of course, kids go to college when they are 18, and I don't believe in "subjection" at this point in their lives. I believe in learning from my kids, and letting myself be subjected to hearing about what they are learning. 
    I am not concerned too much about the Society's position on higher education. At this point, the economic benefits are too often a trap due to the high cost and doubtful employment outcomes. And although I'm sure I'd be welcomed to return as an elder, I am happy with all the things that can be done without the title. Also, you might know that I have a lot of difficulty navigating platform assignments that promote shunning, 1914, the sign, the generation, the "presence," and few other things on which we might well be right, but are too dogmatic about. I'm happy to wait until the pendulum swings in the direction of less dogma. Titles are not important.
  20. Upvote
    Arauna got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    Just to mention one thought: churches teach the immortality of the soul - so even if they profess that they believe in the sacrifice of Jesus ..... they do not teach that Jesus "really" died. The bible says Jesus put his "soul" in death ...... he did not exist at all for 3 days but   after 3 days jehovah resurrected him with immortality. Jehovah  gave him immortality as a reward for his faithfulness.  He was the first to receive immortality.  
    I just want you to think how important it is that one must understand the death of Jesus to call yourself a Christian. I can bombard you with many scriptures to prove the above truth to you but I do not think this forum  is the place to do it.
    The same goes for the teachings about the Jehovah' s name, the future kingdom of God etc.  These CORE teachings of truth are not adjusted. Other things regarding prophecy, better understanding of illustrations etc time related teachings, have been adjusted..... but the core teachings - which make us totally different to all other religions  - is core teachings of truth from the bible.
    Hindus, Buddhists, Islam, and most other religions teach the immortality of the soul........ which is a lie from satan. Its origins come from ancient Babylon in teachings of the "underworld". Some of this has led to the teaching that people will burn forever in a literal fire because the soul cannot be destroyed..... it is immortal.   But the bible says: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.  Ezekiel 18:4. King James. 
    We were talking about modern times.  I should have remembered you always revert back  to the past.
    The GB are 'now' very careful to not infer anything which can be interpreted as a date for Armageddon because of the maliciousness of enemies who dig up things to accuse. 
  21. Like
    Arauna reacted to TrueTomHarley in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    Well, yes....but this is a JW forum and the consensus will be that one must meet the basic criteria—no trinity, no immortal soul, role of God’s kingdom, neutrality, preach the good news, God’s name, traditional morality, and so forth.
    If one is going to sail outside those boundaries, keep sailing, and I’ll say it is Tim Cook.
  22. Upvote
    Arauna reacted to Srecko Sostar in By the way .... has the Society recently decided that voting is a matter of personal conscience?   
    In general, many people don't go to vote. I am not sure but in many countries less than 50% of population that have right to vote doing that. So, all of them will be target for "hate" :)) Perhaps basement would be good place for hide from haters. :))
    There is about 22 countries where voting is mandatory.
  23. Like
    Arauna got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in WT Society and Religious Education   
    I came in the truth 45 years ago while a young student in Africa (lived there for 45 years). I have worked and lived also in USA (15 years), England, Sweden and now retired in Republic of Georgia. I worked as a reporter and after that in PR for several companies.
    I find most Americans (not all) myopic and inward looking and entitled. What I learnt in my travels is that 'cultures' give people certain values that they cling to - which can make them difficult and unadaptable.  And this is also true of people in the truth. Personality traits and values which are so ingrained that if the person is not prepared to work on it themself. Hence, they can make it almost impossible for Jehovah to work with them or for them to fit in. So some people - as a result of this, think the elders and GB are controlling.
    If they look closely - they will see the fault is their own.  Sweeping statements such as  "workbook " wich seem to be a mandatory way for preaching  shows an ignorance of the truth. It may come from deepseated rebellious inclination to any authority. 
    I work with youth in the fieldservice all the time. While they do not have the experience to talk off the cuff - I always do.   They follow the prescribed workbook ideas perfectly and do well enough but they can also see how my life experience, additional knowledge and knowledge of other countries,  can help a person with small talk and much else .  
    I watch politics all over the world and understand how large corporations work. Most of the criticism I see against GB comes from the inexperience of not understanding that the GB deal with a different set of laws in each country and had to learn the hard way that American law is not universal law....... and laws are not applied the same everywhere. 
    IF I were a GB member I would also have given the same preaching suggestions to new or shy people and encourage them to stay on topic so they can at least have a positive experience.  I am here in a foreign language congregation and the repetitive field presentations in the "workbook" help those who are learning a new language. A good question to always ask is this: what would I have done if I was a GP member?   
    OLDER  members who have heard the basics over the years at meetings definitely  like new ideas to meditate or "chew" on. So  I usually prepare and answer to this effect.... which usually gives young or newer ones in the congregation incentive to do more research.
    Recently we had a section on cleanliness.  Why?   Well,  I had a student/study from a very poor part of the world. Her children used to smell, she had no sheets on her beds, etc. Etc. They came to meetings this way.  We had to teach her these things.   Some countries  have merely the bare necessities - they do not use sheets...or have enough water to wash. So never be arrogant and view the GB as being "prescribing", silly or harsh.  How to feed your family in a healthy way with very little money is not a subject fit for USA but very important in other parts of the world.
    In Africa,  we have terrible practices which come from spiritism and superstition..... people sometimes revert back to old ideas..... so one has to speak to these persons and maybe discipline them.  Is this harshness or ensuring that Jehovahs standards are kept?  One always finds the personality type which is not easily adaptable.  If I tell a white person that they will share the paradise with a black person and they don't like it?  Who is closing the future hope of living in a paradise for themselves? The GB, the elders, me or the persons own bad attitude? 
    I am a natural rebel, could never follow rules and still hate rules. Dont like it when elders use a suggestion from GB to make it into a rule.  I have also seen them being corrected for doing this...... On the other hand, I also do realize the necessity to have a mild spirit, a yielding personality - not quick to criticise those who try to serve jehovah to the best of their ability. BUT I have also worked on obtaining a strong sense if what is right or wrong morally.....so I can smell an amorral  rat or thought quickly.  
    Do not be misled- I see secular attitudes on this forum all the time. Where brothers and sisters have lost the ability to see danger where it is lurking because they have become too secularised in their thinking.  After all?  Was the test of Adam and Eve not the choosing of their own morality (right and wrong which affects every situation in life) and the  rejecting of Jehovah's good and bad?    Never think you are "sophisticated" or "reasonable"  or "scholarly" when you adopt secularized opinions......and those in opposition to the bible.
    The GB and elders are there to keep suchlike ones from not influencing the flock.....
  24. Upvote
    Arauna reacted to JW Insider in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    This might be true, but I think that you have had some trouble pinning this "GB worshiper" label on people here. You probably see a lot of potentially contradictory ideas that seem like cognitive dissonance to you. But this might just be a point that many thousands of JWs have reached, while trying to make sense of the extent of human imperfection in trying to put a human structure around good spiritual concepts.
    We often look back at Israel's past, or even note the imperfect leadership of the early Christian congregation. Do we expect to be any better? Jesus said of the Pharisees and other religious leaders in his day that they had put themselves in the seat of Moses, and some ended up making "disciples" who were worse off than before they started. Yet what did Jesus also say about some of the same leaders?
    Matthew 23:2-4 says: 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy, burdensome loads and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.…
    We can still follow, even "obey" religious leaders, even when we know they are very imperfect.
    Any organized religious structure will end up being led by men who are imperfect, and therefore by men that we can never trust 100 percent, no matter how well they think they are doing. This is really what we must always expect: "Put not your trust in earthling man (even princes/nobles) in whom no salvation belongs" "Let God be found true though every man be found a liar."
    Still, Christianity requires a human, social structure because it is a "brotherhood." It's a place where we can comfort others and be comforted, encourage others and be encouraged, feed and clothe and visit others, and be fed, clothed, and visited as needed. But those who would be "leaders" at the very top of any organization will always tend to grasp at reasons to explain and hold on to their authority. They may not well understand this authoritative position they are engaged in, and human nature will lead them to continue in the type of behavior that works best for persons in authority. They will tend to look for what they believe is the best solution to any religious questions (doctrine, process), and then make a "command" out of it. It's the reason that we don't see a lot of public admission that a question has them vexed. Instead, in order for authority to work (for most of us) they must make a private decision about what solution works the best (least number of unexplained discrepencies) and then teach this "solution" (often conjecture) as if it is gospel. 
    (1 Peter 4:11) . . .If anyone speaks, [let him speak] as it were [the] sacred pronouncements of God;. . .
    (NIV) If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so.
    Some of these "oracles" will attract sycophantic followers. That's also human nature. Russell acted as one of those "oracles" and so did Rutherford and Fred Franz, and David Splane to an extent. Just like in the first century congregation, people followed Paul, or Apollos, or Peter, who were all fine ministers. Some of us want to think of these modern day examples as being apostle-like. Some might even be apostle-like, but it's up to us to never just accept them this way, but to put all new teachings to the test.
    (Revelation 2:2, 14) . . .and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars.. . . you have there those adhering to the teaching of Baʹlaam, . . . you also have those adhering to the teaching of the sect of Nic·o·laʹus. . . . you tolerate that woman Jezʹe·bel . . . I say to the rest of you who are in Thy·a·tiʹra, all those who do not follow this teaching . . .
    Notice that Jesus' instructions to the 7 congregations was never about waiting for a governing body of apostle-like persons to tell them what was true and false teaching. It was the congregation's own responsibility to put to the test anyone who wanted them to be accepted as apostle-like. They were responsible to compare it to the true original apostolic source (for us, the Biblical source of teaching)  "Therefore, continue mindful of how you have received and how you heard, and go on keeping it. . ." (Revelation 3:3)
    As an aside, I would also say that the congregation is a place to inculcate the existing Bible teachings, not a place to find "new" teachings. It's a place to keep our spirits up, and keep our love alive, so that we can endure. Jesus addresses those in the congregations, but ends this section by making a point about how they all would stand to be judged as individuals.
    (Revelation 3:19-22) 19 “‘All those for whom I have affection, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent. 20 Look! I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into his house and take the evening meal with him and he with me. 21 To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’”
    We're never going to get away from leaders who are imperfect and who will, by human nature, tend to ask us to believe and act only in a certain way. This is useful for some, especially at first. But we should also mature:
    (Hebrews 5:14) 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong.
  25. Upvote
    Arauna reacted to JW Insider in WT Society and Religious Education   
    Yes, it is a man made rule, but based at least in part on scriptural principles. Also these are man-made rules coming from those who should be in a better position to see a wider set of statistics and experiences as they get reports from all around the world. Elders are sometimes called "epi-skopos" in Greek, meaning overseers. When we consider those who literally watch over a flock closely, we might expect them to count the number of sick, the number who die, the number eaten, the number of sheep in various categories: mottled, speckled, young, old, male, female. They also know the dangers of taking them through "Wolf Ravine" or making them wade through "Poison Water River." Similarly, if the elders working at headquarters got 100 reports of divorces right after holding an international convention in Las Vegas or Amsterdam, but no reports of divorces every time they held the same size international conventions in Helsinki or Reykjavík, I think it would be a wise man-made rule not to schedule international conventions in Las Vegas or Amsterdam. Not all traditions make the word of God void.
    The WTS had a program to pay for Law School for selected individuals already working full time at Bethel or other full time service who showed promise or aptitude for such. This program was dropped, and you can be sure that there those at HQ who were counting the cost, much like those shepherd counting the survivors of "Wolf Ravine." They reverted back the previous system of using volunteers who had finished Law School before becoming Witnesses.
    Age 17.
    But all scores that count are measured at the end of Junior year, not Senior year of American High School. Therefore it requires a conscious choice to pick the maximum number of advanced placement classes which could result in the best choices and scholarships and would therefore be a path chosen by age 15 or 16 at the latest.
    Local papers print up the bio given by a Guidance Counselor office of each high school reporting on the scores of their "Valedictorians" and those who are accepted by certain colleges.
    Asked and answered in a prior post.
    So far, I believe well more than half of the GB says.   
    I believe that since WE, if we hope to be noble-minded individuals, are responsible to search the Scriptures and see whether these things are so, then this must be WE not only THEM. And there are many ways to tell someone about the Kingdom hope, the paradise, the resurrection, God's purpose, God's government, and why it's got to be a sight better than what we are putting up with now. Sometimes the CLAM workbook is spot on, sometimes it doesn't fit my style at all.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.