Arauna

These dates were made to coincide with Egyptian dates.  As I have pointed out many times before, the Egyptian chronology is faulty as it was laid down in stone shortly after Egyptology started in the early 19th century. There are many dissidents of this chronology but they are not allowed to dig in Egypt..... there is intellectual monopoly on this.
The most accurate way to test the date of 607 BCE is to go to the Greek sources (olympiads) - they are more accurate and the PIVITOL date is the death of Cyrus from which on can determine the length of his rule and how long it would take the Israelite nation to return to their LAND.

This is what it all boils down to, doesn’t it? The Rejection of 2520. I suggest you and your friend try to understand, the education behind, what that time represented. Perhaps the attempt, at reformation by King Josiah will enlighten you, and why they paid the price for Manasseh, that ended all legitimacy of Judah and ended the freedom they once enjoyed after the Exodus.

Start by reading: The-Pedagogy-of-Shalom-Theory-and-Contemporary-Issues-of-a-Faith-based-Education 2017

Taking Shalom into Exile
The literary production that is attributed to the prophet Jeremiah becomes significant at this point, where there is much use of shalom. Due to a fairly consistent slide into moral and spiritual infdelity, the southern kingdom of Judah, from Jeremiah’s historic vantage point, has been in political trouble for 200 years. As a result, she has wound up a vassal to Assyria, Egypt, and Babylon. Even with the reprieve during which young King Josiah sought religious, spiritual, and moral reforms, their unfaithfulness was never really abandoned. As a lone authentic prophet, “Jeremiah saw through the whole sham of external conformity without inward change” (Thompson 1980, p. 22). They were going through the motions of religious practice and some of the prophets were saying “Peace, peace” (“All is well! Trust me, all is well”). But the encroachment of their enemies was imminent
and Jeremiah speaks out:

RATS!   I lost my Captain Midnight Babylonian Calendar Decoder Ring!

This, of course, would be on how you wish to view history. Technically, Babylon subdued King Jehoiakim in 605BC, as per secular history and 3 years later, 602BC, he rebelled against King Nebuchadnezzar, and in 587BC Jerusalem was destroyed. So, either you're trying to justify 50 years to 70 years, or your calculations fall short within those 70 years. So, what would be the reason to use 609BC if you want to be precise? 608BC, then, you end up in 538BC, 1 year after the fall of Babylon. So, what would be the reason to use another speculative view about Isaiah’s Prophecy, if this claim can’t be added, either? Don’t you think, you are attempting to make things fit, just as the Watchtower is being defamed for?

Just to put things into perspective to those that get confused. AlanF, Ann O'Maly, and JWinsider, claims from 609BC-587BC=22 years. Where does the 19 years in SCRIPTURE, the SAME 3-year difference being argued about for the WT chronology, fall, then? SPECULATION IS ALL YOU HAVE!!!!!

Here lies "Alanf'" and JWinsider" argument. That 538BC shouldn't be overlooked. The Jews received the edict in early 538BC and returned and arrived in late 538BC, thus fulfilling the scriptual70 years in 539BC as indicated by ALANF's friend and colleague Jeffro, not 538BC. Normal people should be able to add or subtract. 538BC+70=608BC. 1 year more than what the Watchtower has been claiming for a century. 539BC+70=609BC, NOT 608BC. 2 years more than what the Watchtower has been claiming for a century now. This whole time, COJ proved nothing since the GENTILE TIMES would have started with the death of King Josiah in 609BC. So, 1911 or 1914 when Jesus sat on the throne can still be applied, within a 3-year difference. WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE RAYMOND FRANZ. That he jumped the gun, on sheer speculation.

Not so sure why you wanted to pick me out of the crowd. I think it was 605, immediately after his father died. He did manage to get back home probably faster than anyone had ever managed that trip before him.
 Both dates are secular chronology. But again, I have no problem with 607 being the start of the 70 years. I never have. I have always thought that it was close enough, within a year or two, and that even the term "70 years" need not have ever meant an exact number, to the very month, or even the very year. In fact, the expression was already previously in use by Isaiah:
(Isaiah 23:15) . . .seventy years, the same as the days of one king. . . Whether this meant "lifetime" as in "lifespan" of a king, or the span of the Babylonian period of greatest domination, as the "Isaiah's prophecy" book points out, it doesn't have to mean that the prophecy fails if that period of greatest domination was 67 to 69 years, instead of 70 exactly.
*** ip-1 chap. 19 p. 253 par. 21 Jehovah Profanes the Pride of Tyre ***
“These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble. What years would you @Foreigner or perhaps @scholar JW or @allensmith28 use to date that 70 years of Babylon's greatest domination as applied to Tyre? Would you start it with the fall of Jerusalem's Temple, or does it make more sense to start it with the earliest years when Babylon was tramping about in the region, beginning to prove its dominance as the next world power in the region?
Besides, you don't know just how long Nebuchadnezzar was the king's representative in Hattu. At what point did Babylon begin controlling Tyre's economy by taking control of key trade routes? (Isaiah 23) At what point did Babylon begin dominating economic and political decisions made in the Hattu region (Syria/Israel/Judah) simply through fear even before the first physical depredations of the land and people were made? I don't think we need to look for a specific event that begins the 70 years of domination, and no specific event that ends the domination. It's pretty easy to get the general time period. (And 2 Chron 36:21 seems to pinpoint the end.)  It certainly makes sense that the prediction of the imminent fall of Nineveh would have been the end of the Assyrian power in the eyes of Jerusalem/Judea. Did it wait until the final and actual fall? And you are right, there appears to be a couple of years when the Egyptian power seemed on par with Babylon's. Egypt was the king of the south at the same time that Babylon was the king of the north. Judeans would continue to choose between them for many years. But even Egypt and Assyria together couldn't stand up against Babylon at Carchemish, as proven in 605. Was Jehovah able to discern the dominance of Babylon even a couple years before 605, while Nebuchadnezzar was still a prince and general?
We could even ask if the devastation and desolation of a city needed to be literal in every respect. Or did prophecy often use poetic language, even poetic hyperbole, in making memorable warnings? Was it even necessary that Nineveh, Jerusalem, Tyre, or Babylon ever be completely desolated? Or was it a warning of what Jehovah was capable of doing as the true sovereign (king) of the world?  For example, In his pronouncement against Assyrian Nineveh, Nahum includes "fear" as part of what devastates and desolates her, yet we know that Nineveh was never totally depopulated:
(Nahum 2:8-11, NWT) 8 And Ninʹe·veh, from the days [that] she [has been], was like a pool of waters; but they are fleeing. “Stand still, YOU men! Stand still!” But there is no one turning back.
9 Plunder silver, YOU men; plunder gold; as there is no limit to the [things in] arrangement. There is a heavy amount of all sorts of desirable articles.
10 The city is empty, desolate, devastated!
Their hearts melt in fear, their knees buckle, their hips tremble; (NWT 2013)
All their faces are flushed. 11 Where is the lair of lions, and the cave that belongs to the maned young lions, where the lion walked and entered, where the lion’s cub was, and no one was making [them] tremble?
Just as we often must do with other prophecies, I sometimes put a softer edge on the chronology in prophecy (unless the prophecy itself tells us otherwise). Dates and numbers can be rounded, just as this has often been explained for other prophecies discussed in our publications.

I appreciate Nana, Anna and Scholar quoting the relevant scriptures and thanks Allan Smith for some new ideas on the table. I liked your thoughts on the festivals because the entire history of the nation was centered on the celebration of the festivals (Sabbath Year included). Israel was a nation dedicated to Jehovah - they neglected it and went into exile - but the promise of Jehovah was that they would be repatriated back to the land so they can restart their pure worship to him and rebuild the temple. 
 
AlanF is too quick to "poo" other people’s thoughts but I see he makes a lot of wild hmm… “scholarly” statements for which he has no proof for either!  They just lived in cities??  LOL Get real AlanF...  it was not 2017 AD …..but 537 BCE.  By your comments I can see that you do not have any understanding of how the people lived.... 
Dear AllanF this is for you:
When one reads into the scriptures what you ‘want’ it is called speculation.  I quoted several scriptures referring to ‘70 years’ and you concluded it only refers to ‘hegemony’. 
Please look again at:-  Jeremiah 25:11 refers to the LAND which must be desolate for 70 years. “And this whole LAND shall be a desolation.”   
Most of the inhabitants were removed so there was no large scale planting and the land was not kept clean of wild animals.  When they went back to their land they had to clear it to start planting and get on with everyday life – as prophesied. It does not mean the land was barren of people but that  it was laid waste.
Isaih 1: Look! Jehovah is emptying the land* and making it desolate. He turns it upside down* and scatters its inhabitants.  2  It will be the same for everyone: The people as well as the priest,The servant and his master, The servant and her mistress,The buyer and the seller,The lender and the borrower,The creditor and the debtor.  3  The land will be completely emptied;It will be completely plundered, For Jehovah has spoken this word.  4  The land mourns; it is wasting away. The productive land withers; it is fading away. The prominent people of the land wither.  5  The land has been polluted by its inhabitants, For they have bypassed the laws,
 
Why is your reasoning that these scriptures ONLY refer to ‘hegemony’ faulty?
When in doubt, always go back to :- root cause:  what was the root cause for their exile? Definitely not because Jehovah had a whim to put them under foreign hegemony without a reason…. The reason was because of the law regarding the LAND which must lie fallow every 7th year; together with this, they were not obeying other laws…. and the land on which they were living, was defiled – according to scripture above. 
Jehovah required 70 years by the time of their exile. The number 70 is mentioned too many times to ignore.  If Jehovah uses numbers so many times then he meant to have his 70 years…. Jehovah’s consistency of action based on his word is what gave Daniel trust in this words and he discerned that the end of the 70 years were close. I agree with one of the other contributors on the forum that to give a month to 6 month leeway is acceptable (depending, from where one calculates the year) - it should be very close to 70 years. More discrepancy than this would be unacceptable – not because Jehovah made the error but because we are making an error somewhere.
From whatever angle one looks at this debate: from hegemony side, or the land (Jerusalem) being desolate, there is more than enough evidence for 537BCE.
Cyrus entered from the north when the Tigris river was lower (September) and the battle of Opis took place in October 539 BCE so he could get control of the Median wall. Nabonidus fled to Sippar.  Cyrus followed him to Sippar and so the hegemony was not ‘complete’ while Nabonidus was free. He later gave himself up in Babylon because he had no allies.  Cyrus went ahead and appointed his Satrap, Darius the Mede, and the administrators of the new government.  Then in, 538 BCE, when ALL Babylonia was in his control, Cyrus came back to assume the imperial title “King of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four corners of the world"”  ….
All Babylonian kings were inaugurated ONLY in the temple of Marduk since the earliest of ancient times on New Year’s day – some of the Syrian kings were also inaugurated in this temple.  So it was on the following New Year that he took this title 538 BCE.
The Babylonian nation was so superstitious that they would not accept a ruler over the city/state if this festival had not been celebrated. Cyrus knew this; he was related to the Babylonian kings on the Median side. The Median King, Darius, was installed as his regent (Daniel’s vision talks of a two headed beast – the Median and Persian.)
Scholars accept Berossos - who is not really a reliable historian and living 300 years after Daniel but they reject the history of Daniel who was definitely there at the time.  Daniel used some ancient Akkadian words that were only in use in Babylon by highly educated administrators. (Nebuchadnezzar started the practice of rebuilding old temples, did archeology of these temples and kept the Arcadian language as a matter of nationalistic pride and tradition. ) Scholars will not take this into account but Bible students know this empire comprised two empires in one – they believe Daniel and his vision of Persia.
The situation was as follows: the nation of Babylon (very superstitious) hated Nabonidus, who was popular at the beginning of his reign, but popularity turned to hate when he built (and restored several) a temple to the moon god in Tema, oasis in Arabia, and left his son Belshazzar to rule in his place.
Nabonidus was absent so much in a period of ten years that he did not celebrate the NEW YEAR - which was sacrilege! -  It was the most important festival for the king and the nation on the calendar!! On the day of Akitu he had to renew his kingship by humbling himself in front of Marduk in front of all the people! The massive festival was 12 days long. Priests of Marduk taught that Marduk will punish the nation for the king’s deviance.
Cyrus was smart and did what was required – bowed to Marduk on the new year’s day and was loved by the people for taking his crown in this 12 day festival - a happy time for the people. He was seen as a great liberator. This is extremely significant  - if one knows the Babylonian mind and how they operated. This festival was in Nissan for 12 days. 538 BCE
Cyrus thereafter issued his Decree in 538 BCE for the return of the Jews. This date is corroborated all over the internet…..go check it out. 
 
So what “process” did this repatriation involve?
In 538 BCE: In the time of Cyrus and Nabonidus, the logistics were definitely NOT what they are today as Allen Smith pointed out but it fell on deaf ears. Yes, they had technology like the catapult, an excellent canal system (for water) for agriculture, the hanging gardens with its pumps etc. but logistics were time consuming due to transport constraints – not the world we know today...
Rushed communications were usually sent by couriers on horseback via a network of routes – other methods were slower.  Letters were dictated and inscribed and baked in Cuneiform and sealed and sent out to the 120 satraps mentioned by Ezra (evidence of 20 only came somewhat later).  Each Satrap would need a few weeks for the news to be spread to all Jewish enclaves. The territory was large and the 10 tribes were widely scattered during the Assyrian rule. The call went out to ALL of Israel not just the Jews (name Jew comes from Judah at the time).
The Jews then had to organize themselves: where to meet so they could move in a group together (a trek of  3-4 months around the desert – the same way Abraham came into the promised land) so they needed to prepare their logistics…. food, tents, protection, for the move with many animals which needed time to graze every day etc. Preparation is needed to take the most needed things, and extra carts made,  to establish a home on the other side. For the first large group of people to arrive in Jerusalem and start to work the LAND and prune desolate fruit trees, open up wells etc – could easily have taken a year. The LAND must not be fallow and must start to produce to break the desolate cycle.
This is the reason I accepted the date of 537 BCE many years ago.  I am not a scholar but an autodidact. One must account for human processes.  Number punching scholars are not prepared to do this.  Reasonableness about the lifestyle of the time; together with the confirmed historical dates, is the logical way to go.  In modern days – reasonableness and a thinking through of the process is one of the major requirements for logical evaluation when judging a case in court.
The date of 537BCE cannot be disproved because no one knows exactly how quickly the Jews moved to Jerusalem.  Those moved by Jehovah’s spirit could have been so excited that they organized themselves faster than we would expect. Reasonableness and logical thinking of the steps needed to start a new life in a neglected place, helps to make the right conclusion.
But if you are not reasonable then one makes wild statements about 1914, for example:  the scope of disasters in the 100 years before 1914. This has no substance and comes from a deep desire to claim that JWs are wrong about 1914. Whether by accident or not – the evidence on  ground zero proves that Jehovah helped the slave to understand this. Reputable historians that are scholars have said the 1914 was the year the world changed forever.
To watch these fights about 1914 by such early books as written in 1823 to me is silly (archeology was not properly established then).  Archeology started about 1801 when Napoleon went into Egypt…..and people made a connection between the pyramids and the bible (and by the way most bible lovers were fascinated with this for a century – it was part of the social talk of the era. 
So when you argue about these things it is a ploy away from the subject (but related) to discredit JWs early history….. If anyone looks back at the early history of any organization one can discredit it because we look at it with the knowledge we have at present…. which is not a fair and proper judgement because one should understand the ‘era’ they were living in to make this judgment. (I think they did pretty well if one thinks that they made many connections just on the knowledge from the Bible without archeology.) An awakening – but all the puzzle was not yet fitted……they did a good job with what they had….because they had a love for the bible and God.
At the time the early JWs wrote in all sincerity up to 130 years ago – they did not think that some ‘modern’ scholar would come a hundred years later and ‘nitpick’ every word to check out the ‘semantics’.  
The archeology available today has only come through the translation of thousands of tablets – especially the last 40 years…..  
 
Reign of Cyrus (538BCE when he was crowned king of all the earth):
Excerpt from Josephus: In the first year of the reign of Cyrus (1) which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity
 
Conditions during the captivity - ALLEN F has it wrong!
The boys from the ruling class were trained at the palace of Nebuchadnezzar.  The largest settlements were villages located along the Chebar River (which was an irrigation channel for agriculture).  The Jews (Juda) were allowed to live together in communities and they were allowed to farm and make all sorts of things to earn a living.  Some became rich…  They needed to keep their farming skills for their return…to work the land again.  They would have planted vegetables and feed for animals.
One can get almost 4 generations in 70 years – if they did not keep up their skills for farming their children will go back to Israel with no skills to sow etc. I see Jehovah’s hand in the circumstance that many of the Judeans were placed at the Chebar River and Ezekiel was there with them - if I remember correctly.
 
Jeremia encouraged the Jews to get on with life in captivity - Jer 29:4-11
4 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, to all who were carried away captive, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem to Babylon:
5 Build houses and dwell in them; plant gardens and eat their fruit.
6 Take wives and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons and give your daughters to husbands, so that they may bear sons and daughters -- that you may be increased there, and not diminished.
7 And seek the peace of the city where I have caused you to be carried away captive, and pray to the LORD for it; for in its peace you will have peace.
8 For thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your diviners who are in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you cause to be dreamed.
9 For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the LORD.
10 For thus says the LORD: After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place.
 
I have a peeve with academics:
(Now this is my peeve with many academics:  they just care about ‘dates’ and are totally disconnected to the practicalities of everyday life in the ‘period’ they research.                 
A good example (unrelated to this subject) is Western scholars - when they talk about Islam… claim that Mohammad never existed and the entire religious system was developed over a period of 200 years by other leaders….Why?  Because there are NO secular written references to him and NO secular dates - except the writings attributed to Mohammad by himself and his followers. 
They do not understand tribal and nomadic life. Other kingdoms in Arabia have king lists and histories but these tribes were not capable of writing an accurate historical biography immediately after Mohammad’s death.  In Mohammad’s case – the sword - was the most efficient way of spreading the faith – not writing.  Later, when scholars from Persia etc. was added to the fold – more writings and analytics appeared and many additional teachings from other faiths were added to the writings which already had  been plagiarized from many other religions).
Similar in this case – there are processes at stake we no-one can disprove or prove so we accept the most logical - which also has living evidence on ground zero.

The bible says 70 or 80 years..... but one never finds a generation where everyone is the same age - they all vary.... born in different years.... so they overlap.... 80 if one is strong and 100 if exceptionally strong!.... something I will not see! 

I appreciate Nana, Anna and Scholar quoting the relevant scriptures and thanks Allan Smith for some new ideas on the table. I liked your thoughts on the festivals because the entire history of the nation was centered on the celebration of the festivals (Sabbath Year included). Israel was a nation dedicated to Jehovah - they neglected it and went into exile - but the promise of Jehovah was that they would be repatriated back to the land so they can restart their pure worship to him and rebuild the temple. 
 
AlanF is too quick to "poo" other people’s thoughts but I see he makes a lot of wild hmm… “scholarly” statements for which he has no proof for either!  They just lived in cities??  LOL Get real AlanF...  it was not 2017 AD …..but 537 BCE.  By your comments I can see that you do not have any understanding of how the people lived.... 
Dear AllanF this is for you:
When one reads into the scriptures what you ‘want’ it is called speculation.  I quoted several scriptures referring to ‘70 years’ and you concluded it only refers to ‘hegemony’. 
Please look again at:-  Jeremiah 25:11 refers to the LAND which must be desolate for 70 years. “And this whole LAND shall be a desolation.”   
Most of the inhabitants were removed so there was no large scale planting and the land was not kept clean of wild animals.  When they went back to their land they had to clear it to start planting and get on with everyday life – as prophesied. It does not mean the land was barren of people but that  it was laid waste.
Isaih 1: Look! Jehovah is emptying the land* and making it desolate. He turns it upside down* and scatters its inhabitants.  2  It will be the same for everyone: The people as well as the priest,The servant and his master, The servant and her mistress,The buyer and the seller,The lender and the borrower,The creditor and the debtor.  3  The land will be completely emptied;It will be completely plundered, For Jehovah has spoken this word.  4  The land mourns; it is wasting away. The productive land withers; it is fading away. The prominent people of the land wither.  5  The land has been polluted by its inhabitants, For they have bypassed the laws,
 
Why is your reasoning that these scriptures ONLY refer to ‘hegemony’ faulty?
When in doubt, always go back to :- root cause:  what was the root cause for their exile? Definitely not because Jehovah had a whim to put them under foreign hegemony without a reason…. The reason was because of the law regarding the LAND which must lie fallow every 7th year; together with this, they were not obeying other laws…. and the land on which they were living, was defiled – according to scripture above. 
Jehovah required 70 years by the time of their exile. The number 70 is mentioned too many times to ignore.  If Jehovah uses numbers so many times then he meant to have his 70 years…. Jehovah’s consistency of action based on his word is what gave Daniel trust in this words and he discerned that the end of the 70 years were close. I agree with one of the other contributors on the forum that to give a month to 6 month leeway is acceptable (depending, from where one calculates the year) - it should be very close to 70 years. More discrepancy than this would be unacceptable – not because Jehovah made the error but because we are making an error somewhere.
From whatever angle one looks at this debate: from hegemony side, or the land (Jerusalem) being desolate, there is more than enough evidence for 537BCE.
Cyrus entered from the north when the Tigris river was lower (September) and the battle of Opis took place in October 539 BCE so he could get control of the Median wall. Nabonidus fled to Sippar.  Cyrus followed him to Sippar and so the hegemony was not ‘complete’ while Nabonidus was free. He later gave himself up in Babylon because he had no allies.  Cyrus went ahead and appointed his Satrap, Darius the Mede, and the administrators of the new government.  Then in, 538 BCE, when ALL Babylonia was in his control, Cyrus came back to assume the imperial title “King of Babylon, king of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four corners of the world"”  ….
All Babylonian kings were inaugurated ONLY in the temple of Marduk since the earliest of ancient times on New Year’s day – some of the Syrian kings were also inaugurated in this temple.  So it was on the following New Year that he took this title 538 BCE.
The Babylonian nation was so superstitious that they would not accept a ruler over the city/state if this festival had not been celebrated. Cyrus knew this; he was related to the Babylonian kings on the Median side. The Median King, Darius, was installed as his regent (Daniel’s vision talks of a two headed beast – the Median and Persian.)
Scholars accept Berossos - who is not really a reliable historian and living 300 years after Daniel but they reject the history of Daniel who was definitely there at the time.  Daniel used some ancient Akkadian words that were only in use in Babylon by highly educated administrators. (Nebuchadnezzar started the practice of rebuilding old temples, did archeology of these temples and kept the Arcadian language as a matter of nationalistic pride and tradition. ) Scholars will not take this into account but Bible students know this empire comprised two empires in one – they believe Daniel and his vision of Persia.
The situation was as follows: the nation of Babylon (very superstitious) hated Nabonidus, who was popular at the beginning of his reign, but popularity turned to hate when he built (and restored several) a temple to the moon god in Tema, oasis in Arabia, and left his son Belshazzar to rule in his place.
Nabonidus was absent so much in a period of ten years that he did not celebrate the NEW YEAR - which was sacrilege! -  It was the most important festival for the king and the nation on the calendar!! On the day of Akitu he had to renew his kingship by humbling himself in front of Marduk in front of all the people! The massive festival was 12 days long. Priests of Marduk taught that Marduk will punish the nation for the king’s deviance.
Cyrus was smart and did what was required – bowed to Marduk on the new year’s day and was loved by the people for taking his crown in this 12 day festival - a happy time for the people. He was seen as a great liberator. This is extremely significant  - if one knows the Babylonian mind and how they operated. This festival was in Nissan for 12 days. 538 BCE
Cyrus thereafter issued his Decree in 538 BCE for the return of the Jews. This date is corroborated all over the internet…..go check it out. 
 
So what “process” did this repatriation involve?
In 538 BCE: In the time of Cyrus and Nabonidus, the logistics were definitely NOT what they are today as Allen Smith pointed out but it fell on deaf ears. Yes, they had technology like the catapult, an excellent canal system (for water) for agriculture, the hanging gardens with its pumps etc. but logistics were time consuming due to transport constraints – not the world we know today...
Rushed communications were usually sent by couriers on horseback via a network of routes – other methods were slower.  Letters were dictated and inscribed and baked in Cuneiform and sealed and sent out to the 120 satraps mentioned by Ezra (evidence of 20 only came somewhat later).  Each Satrap would need a few weeks for the news to be spread to all Jewish enclaves. The territory was large and the 10 tribes were widely scattered during the Assyrian rule. The call went out to ALL of Israel not just the Jews (name Jew comes from Judah at the time).
The Jews then had to organize themselves: where to meet so they could move in a group together (a trek of  3-4 months around the desert – the same way Abraham came into the promised land) so they needed to prepare their logistics…. food, tents, protection, for the move with many animals which needed time to graze every day etc. Preparation is needed to take the most needed things, and extra carts made,  to establish a home on the other side. For the first large group of people to arrive in Jerusalem and start to work the LAND and prune desolate fruit trees, open up wells etc – could easily have taken a year. The LAND must not be fallow and must start to produce to break the desolate cycle.
This is the reason I accepted the date of 537 BCE many years ago.  I am not a scholar but an autodidact. One must account for human processes.  Number punching scholars are not prepared to do this.  Reasonableness about the lifestyle of the time; together with the confirmed historical dates, is the logical way to go.  In modern days – reasonableness and a thinking through of the process is one of the major requirements for logical evaluation when judging a case in court.
The date of 537BCE cannot be disproved because no one knows exactly how quickly the Jews moved to Jerusalem.  Those moved by Jehovah’s spirit could have been so excited that they organized themselves faster than we would expect. Reasonableness and logical thinking of the steps needed to start a new life in a neglected place, helps to make the right conclusion.
But if you are not reasonable then one makes wild statements about 1914, for example:  the scope of disasters in the 100 years before 1914. This has no substance and comes from a deep desire to claim that JWs are wrong about 1914. Whether by accident or not – the evidence on  ground zero proves that Jehovah helped the slave to understand this. Reputable historians that are scholars have said the 1914 was the year the world changed forever.
To watch these fights about 1914 by such early books as written in 1823 to me is silly (archeology was not properly established then).  Archeology started about 1801 when Napoleon went into Egypt…..and people made a connection between the pyramids and the bible (and by the way most bible lovers were fascinated with this for a century – it was part of the social talk of the era. 
So when you argue about these things it is a ploy away from the subject (but related) to discredit JWs early history….. If anyone looks back at the early history of any organization one can discredit it because we look at it with the knowledge we have at present…. which is not a fair and proper judgement because one should understand the ‘era’ they were living in to make this judgment. (I think they did pretty well if one thinks that they made many connections just on the knowledge from the Bible without archeology.) An awakening – but all the puzzle was not yet fitted……they did a good job with what they had….because they had a love for the bible and God.
At the time the early JWs wrote in all sincerity up to 130 years ago – they did not think that some ‘modern’ scholar would come a hundred years later and ‘nitpick’ every word to check out the ‘semantics’.  
The archeology available today has only come through the translation of thousands of tablets – especially the last 40 years…..  
 
Reign of Cyrus (538BCE when he was crowned king of all the earth):
Excerpt from Josephus: In the first year of the reign of Cyrus (1) which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity
 
Conditions during the captivity - ALLEN F has it wrong!
The boys from the ruling class were trained at the palace of Nebuchadnezzar.  The largest settlements were villages located along the Chebar River (which was an irrigation channel for agriculture).  The Jews (Juda) were allowed to live together in communities and they were allowed to farm and make all sorts of things to earn a living.  Some became rich…  They needed to keep their farming skills for their return…to work the land again.  They would have planted vegetables and feed for animals.
One can get almost 4 generations in 70 years – if they did not keep up their skills for farming their children will go back to Israel with no skills to sow etc. I see Jehovah’s hand in the circumstance that many of the Judeans were placed at the Chebar River and Ezekiel was there with them - if I remember correctly.
 
Jeremia encouraged the Jews to get on with life in captivity - Jer 29:4-11
4 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, to all who were carried away captive, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem to Babylon:
5 Build houses and dwell in them; plant gardens and eat their fruit.
6 Take wives and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons and give your daughters to husbands, so that they may bear sons and daughters -- that you may be increased there, and not diminished.
7 And seek the peace of the city where I have caused you to be carried away captive, and pray to the LORD for it; for in its peace you will have peace.
8 For thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your diviners who are in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you cause to be dreamed.
9 For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the LORD.
10 For thus says the LORD: After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place.
 
I have a peeve with academics:
(Now this is my peeve with many academics:  they just care about ‘dates’ and are totally disconnected to the practicalities of everyday life in the ‘period’ they research.                 
A good example (unrelated to this subject) is Western scholars - when they talk about Islam… claim that Mohammad never existed and the entire religious system was developed over a period of 200 years by other leaders….Why?  Because there are NO secular written references to him and NO secular dates - except the writings attributed to Mohammad by himself and his followers. 
They do not understand tribal and nomadic life. Other kingdoms in Arabia have king lists and histories but these tribes were not capable of writing an accurate historical biography immediately after Mohammad’s death.  In Mohammad’s case – the sword - was the most efficient way of spreading the faith – not writing.  Later, when scholars from Persia etc. was added to the fold – more writings and analytics appeared and many additional teachings from other faiths were added to the writings which already had  been plagiarized from many other religions).
Similar in this case – there are processes at stake we no-one can disprove or prove so we accept the most logical - which also has living evidence on ground zero.

Such a wild statement with no proof!  I speak to many atheists - most of them here in Sweden.... ... Their ideas of religion is what they learnt in Babylon the Great and most have not read the Bible.  Bible education has not been allowed here for 3 generations in the schools in Sweden but in England (many of these privileged ones who scoff at God) attended private Catholic/Anglican schools.
Most do of them do not know their history either (or ignore the facts) - for example - that Darwinism not only inspired the eugenics of Hitler - (6 million dead)  but that in a very short time after Darwin (in a matter of 50 years after 1914) the most people were killed in the entire history of the world - much more than any prior blood thirsty ruler or Christianity could do.    Russian revolution 1917 (atheist government) between 20 to 40 million people.  Mau se Tung(atheist government) - up to 100 million dead; Pol pot in Cambodia.... shall I go on - the list of genocides in the 20th century is astounding! 
Most of these 'high priests of this new religion called atheism' get their audiences from people who think they are smart but are not really analytical thinkers.
By the way I have read Hawkins but not a Dawkins.  I watched many of Dawkins' stupid stuff on YouTube and gave some comments but stopped watching when he said that “humans were seeded by aliens” without giving a scientific reason…..that clinched it for me.... 
Not much brains there just one nasty fellow and made a lot of money while doing it.  He does not care for science or truth.    I like to talk with atheists who really are in search of truth or care about science….and the world.  Some of them are as mocking and arrogant as AllanF….  

As I recall, there was also something about the composition of the driveway, too. It was not the ordinary blacktop. 
and......the house number.....was........607!
Take it, guys! I'm off this thread!

The usual complete gobble-de-goop. Barely even English.
AlanF

allensmith28
This is nonsense. Dan. 9:1,2 refers to the 'first year of Darius' and the 'first year of his reign' which either preceded Cyrus's 'first year' or concurrent with it. This is an important chronological datum which should not be ignored because it is located in that immediate historical context for the dating of the Return. The later texts of Ezra and Josephus are superfluous to the dating of the Return which should only be confined to Ezra 1:1-3:6 which is the historical context.
scholar JW emeritus

Alan F is correct in that the scenarios for both 538 and 537 BCE are similar so in theory what works for one should work for the other. However, the 538 scenario in order to work Cyrus' Decree must have been given in the first month in his 'first year' but the Chronicler does not state what month it was. Further, 2 Chron. 36: 22 and Ezra 1:1 refers to this Decree as a proclamation to be made throughout the kingdom which required the use of heralds making known the Edict which would require time even before journey preparations could be made. The other problem is the first year of the reign of Darius which either preceded the reign of Cyrus or concurrent with it so this would mean that the Decree could only have been made either late in 538  or before the spring of 537BCE
scholar JW emeritus
 

allensmith28
The Watch Tower Society would have us believe that the six or seven month interval from Adar or Nisan, 537 BCE month 12 or 1, until Tishri, 537 BCE, month 7 according to its tabulation would be of sufficient time for the Jews to return home with a four-month journey inclusive. Now if ones' imagination cannot accommodate such a hypothesis then it must also be considered that the Jews prior to Adar or Nisan would have been in an anticipatory or preparatory frame of mind with some preparations already in hand. Now, this of course is an interesting scenario but if the Society demands such an indulgence proving 537 BCE for the Return then how is it the case that it refuses to believe or to concede the possibility that the Jews could have easily returned the previous year in 538 BCE?
See Insight, Vol. 1, "Captivity", p. 417, which states:
<< Early in 537 B.C.E., Persian King Cyrus II issued a decree permitting the captives to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. (2Ch 36:20, 21; Ezr 1:1-4) Preparations were soon under way. With the direction of Governor Zerubbabel and High Priest Jeshua, “the sons of the Exile” (Ezr 4:1), . . . made the trip of about four months. . . By the seventh month, in the fall, they were settled in their cities. (Ezr 1:5–3:1) >>
AlanF

allensmith28
Alan F would have us believe that the six month interval from Nisan, 538 BCE month 1 until Tishri, 538 BCE, month 7 according to his tabulation would be of sufficient time for the Jews to return home with a four-month journey inclusive. Now if ones' imagination cannot accommodate such a hypothesis then it must also be considered that the Jews were prior to Month 1 would have been in an anticipatory or preparatory frame of mind with some preparations already in hand. Now, this of course is an interesting scenario but if Alan F demands such an indulgence proving 538 BCE for the Return then how is it the case that he refuses one to believe or to concede the possibility that the Jews could have more easily returned the following year in 537 BE. 
The 538 BCE scenario perhaps first developed by Jeffro on his colourful website then later copied by Alan F is ridiculous, stupid and impossible unless Cyrus had the Internet, publish, circulate by email to all Jews waiting at the door with their Go- bags  packed  waiting for the air-conditioned coach to take them to the airport where they could travel cattle class by jet travel from Babylon to Jerusalem in a matter of a couple of hours and days.
Frankly, this scenario is garbage. The very fact that COJ remains silent or indifferent on this matter is quite telling for COJ is their hero, their Poppa and these two characters will simply whatever nonsense without any evidence. There is simply no evidence for the many assumptions Alan F and Jeffro make such as:
1. Cyrus issued his Decree in Month 1, 538 BCE
2. That the Jews arrived in Judah in Month 6, 538 BCE
This is just for starters.
scholar JW emeritus

The identity of Darius the Mede is immaterial to the question of the date of the return of the Jews to Judah. Sufficient information is given in Ezra and Josephus.
AlanF

Firstly, anointed ones can be sealed while on earth. 2 Cor 1:22; 2 Pet 1:19
Secondly, we have the example of Deborah, a prophetess.  Judges 4:4
In 1 Cor 14:34, Paul says, women cannot teach, “according to the law”. He eventually drew away from teaching according to the Jewish law, which viewed women as unclean. 
The examples we have that Jesus abolished this practice is found in Matt 9:20-22 (Eph 2:15,16)
In Gal 2:21 and 3:1,2 Paul said it is through the hearing of faith, not the works of the law that the Spirit is received. 
Col 2:20-22 – “If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations; “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines.”
I can’t see the law which was embellished with Pharisaical doctrine phasing out immediately.  But through Paul’s writings, we see the change.
Rom 16:1,2 -  “I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church in Cenchreae.  So you should welcome her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints and assist her in whatever matter she may require your help. For indeed she has been a benefactor of many—and of me also.”
1 Cor 11:4 - "Every man that prays or prophesies having something on his head shames his head;  but every woman that prays or prophesies with her head uncovered shames her head”  
In 1 Cor 11:2-15, you’ll see that Paul began rationalizing on the need for woman to wear a head covering.  Her hair is a symbol of glory; a symbol of authority.  “For her hair is given to her as a covering. 16 If anyone wants to argue about this, we have no other custom, nor do the churches of God.” 
A prophet teaches, and it is one of the many gifts within anointed Body.  Rom 12:6-8 
“The next day we left and came to Caesarea, where we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the Seven, and stayed with him.  This man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.”  Acts 21:8,9
"I wish all of you spoke in other tongues, but even more that you prophesied. The person who prophesies is greater than the person who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets so that the church may be built up."  1 Cor 14:5
Gal 3:28  "There is no (literal) Jew or Greek, slave or free, male and female; since you are all one in Christ Jesus."
This wasn’t written in the future tense, but the present.
 

allensmith28 wrote
Wow! You do have a modicum of reading comprehension.
It's not a problem for me, Jeffro or any competent scholar.
You yourself provided the answer by quoting from "Beside the Ulai (Chapter 10)":
<< If we look at Cyrus as king of Babylon, however, then the Persians conquered that city on October 7, 539 BC. The Persian year ran from spring to spring and the Persians used the Accession Year method of reckoning, so probably October 539 to March 538 was Cyrus' Accession  Year and his first year ran from March 538 to March 537, his second year was 537/536 and his third year would be 536/535. >>
Exactly as I have said.
By the way, your presentation of source references is atrociously bad. You give no source reference information -- just jpg images.
The Watch Tower Society agrees with these dates:
<< Since the seventh year of Cambyses II began in spring of 523 B.C.E., his first year of rule was 529 B.C.E. and his accession year, and the last year of Cyrus II as king of Babylon, was 530 B.C.E. The latest tablet dated in the reign of Cyrus II is from the 5th month, 23rd day of his 9th year. (Babylonian Chronology, 626 B.C.–A.D. 75, by R. Parker and W. Dubberstein, 1971, p. 14) As the ninth year of Cyrus II as king of Babylon was 530 B.C.E., his first year according to that reckoning was 538 B.C.E. and his accession year was 539 B.C.E. >> -- Insight, Vol. 1, p. 453.
So some time between March 538 and March 537 Cyrus issue his decree of release. Again the Watch Tower Society agrees:
<< In “the first year” (evidently as ruler over Babylon) of Cyrus the Persian (538 B.C.E.) the royal decree went forth freeing the exiled Jews to “go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and rebuild the house of Jehovah the God of Israel.” (Ezr 1:1-4) >> -- Insight, Vol. 2, p. 44.
So at this point in my reply, we know that Mommy Watch Tower agrees with the dates I've given for the reign of Cyrus.
It seems quite obvious that you don't know that Julian/Gregorian calendar years do not coincide with Jewish or Persian or Babylonian years. Thus, while Cyrus actually became ruler over Babylon in October, 539 BCE, his accession year ran from Nisan (~ March) of 539 up to the next Nisan, in 538.
This statement is proof that you don't understand the calendars.
Nor do you seem to understand that Isaac Newton wrote around 1700, when far less historical information was available than today. And of course, you give no reference to your sources for Newton.
First, an accession year cannot occur in one month.
Second, as shown above, Cyrus' accession year began Nisan 1, 539 and ended the last day of Adar, 538. That's so even though his physical rule began in October (Heshvan) 539 (assuming Cyrus was credited with beginning his rule when his army overthrew Babylon and killed king Belshazzar).
Again you prove to have no idea what you're talking about.
Again consistent with the dates I've given.
Based on what reasoning, in view of the Watch Tower approved dates shown above?
This sentence fragment is gobble-de-goop.
Not according to recognized historians and Mommy Watch Tower.
Another meaningless sentence fragment.
So Mommy Watch Tower is guilty of intellectual dishonesty. I certainly agree, but not on this basis.
You have a better method? Let's see you explain it.
Another ignorant sentence fragment. Perhaps you should take a hint from scholar JW and use Grammarly.
Wrong, in view of the above information.
How about after number 1?
So does Mommy Watch Tower.
What of it?
 
 
Yep, totally clueless.
Proved by your quotation of "Beside the Ulai (Chapter 10)", which I partially reproduced above.
You other jpg here is unreadable, and since you don't even give a source reference, irrelevant.
That's neither here nor there. We're talking about Cyrus.
No one knows, since the Bible given virtually no information, nor do secular sources. Darius is irrelevant.
[ Irrelevant information regarding Darius snipped ]
What an ignorant claim. That's not even what I said. I said this: The Jews and other captives would have known that Cyrus was in the habit of releasing captives, based on knowledge of his military conquests all around the Near East.
This misrepresentation is sterotypical of JW apologists. Sometimes it's done because the apologist has little reading comprehension. Sometimes it's done out of sheer malice and desperation.
LOL!
LOL even more!
In addition to Grammarly, you need a spell checker.
AlanF

No, don't look because this thread is about 607, not about chastising strangers on the internet. I think @TrueTomHarley meant that suggestion to be purely rhetorical. Plus I don't think Alan F gives two monkeys bottoms.

Nah. We'll find one when and if it becomes necessary. Probably he is mending his ill-mannered ways right now so as to fit in.

TrueTomHarley wrote:
 
:: You've learned well from Mommy Watch Tower.
"With thankful hearts we acknowledge God’s mercy and gratefully and willingly show our respect for Jehovah’s organization, for she is our mother and the beloved wife of our heavenly Father, Jehovah God."--"The Watchtower", May 1, 1957, p. 285
:: Let's see that razor sharp Watch Tower trained brain in action!
"Serpents, offspring of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of Gehenna?"--Matt. 33:23
See how insulting this fellow is. It will be his undoing, most likely.
Done.
:: You obviously have no clue what evidence is.
"these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years."--Jer. 25:11
"Jeremiah 25:11 describes the seventy years as a period of servitude of the Jewish nation."--scholar JW
Evidence: "these nations" is plural and refers both to the Jews and to the nations round about.
From one paraphrase of Hitchens you manage to make this conclusion? You haven't even read their books.
"When anyone replies to a matter before he hears the facts, It is foolish and humiliating."--Prov. 18:13
AlanF

Well - I don't think he pretends to be a brother.

See how insulting this fellow is. It will be his undoing, most likely.
The fact that he worships the Dawkins-Harris-Hitchens Trinity makes it even more interesting.
Quick, someone find me a scripture of how a contemptuous person comes to ruin.

Both Jeffro and I have explained all this in great detail. The fact that you don't read it at all, or that you don't seem to retain what you read, does not change that.
As I've explained above and in the link I've given a dozen times, there were up to nearly six months for the preparation and the journey from Nisan 538 BCE. The journey was about four months, assuming that other biblical references to a similar journey can be used. That leaves nearly two months for preparation. And that assumes that the Jews were unaware of Cyrus' general practice of releasing captives, which they would have known of since Cyrus had been marching around the Near East for quite a few years. So they could have had a preparation time of up to seven months.
What do you think could not be accomplished in two to seven months?
Let's see that razor sharp Watch Tower trained brain in action!
AlanF