Arauna

I think many people who have an ax to grind with enemies will shoot each other during chaos.  I am not naïve as to the capabilities of lawless people. 

There is only one king at a time which represents this king "“In the time of the end". Germany hated Jehovah's people, thereafter Russia relentlessly persecuted Jehovah's people.
The king of the south was firstly : Britain (the 7th head of the wild beast that received a sword stroke -), in order to continue with the war they needed USA to enter the war and then the Lusitania was conveniently sunk.  

I think many people who have an ax to grind with enemies will shoot each other during chaos.  I am not naïve as to the capabilities of lawless people. 

All governments have the 'sword' or else they cannot maintain the peace and good order.  Note what the apostle Paul said in the Christian era at Romans chapter 13 verses 1 and 4:
1 " Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. ....4  for it is Gods minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear, for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword.  It is God's minister, an avenger to express wrath against the one practicing what is bad."
In the 20th century BCE when Joseph was administering Egypt I would think that things were even stricter.  Also in the period when he Jewess Esther was Queen of Persia (some time between the period 493 to 475 BCE) use of the sword was fairly liberal; one could not come in to the King unless he/she were invited. They did so under the penalty of death.
When Adam an Eve listened to Satan and sinned, God knew that human kings/governments would come on the scene.  That is why he told Samuel, that the Israelites did not reject him, Samuel, it was Jehovah whom they rejected when they asked for a king.  As early as Genesis 49 we see prophecy relating to the the coming of royal offspring eventually leading the Jesus, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, who was to be the root of David.  His throne would eventually be a heavenly throne and has in fact become so.
Therefore what human kings/governments do is allowed by God to keep order on earth.
There is no record, as far as I remember,  of Joseph's dealings with ordinary citizens  but whatever he did seemed was fair and in good taste. He was later given total power over everyone in the Egyptian realm except for Pharaoh himself. Pharaoh recognized in 30-year-old Joseph the man wise enough to administer affairs during the time of plenty and the time of famine.  Joseph was therefore constituted second ruler in Egypt, Pharaoh giving Joseph his own signet ring, fine linen garments, and a necklace of gold and other trappings of high office.   
Fast forward to when his brothers came to Egypt to buy food, he sent them back to fetch his younger brother and gave them a series of tests to see if their murderous attitude had changed.   He then revealed himself to them, hugged them and cried profusely and told them: "Now do not feel hurt and do not be angry with yourselves because you sold me here; because for the preservation of life God has sent me ahead of you.  For this is the second year of the famine in the midst of the earth, and there are yet five years in which were will be no plowing time or harvest. Consequently God sent me ahead of you in order to place a remnant for you men in the earth and to keep you alive by a great escape. So now it was not you who sent me here, but it was the true God."  Genesis 45;1-8; 14,15.
Being a ruler did not stop him from being a servant of God; even if he had to order the execution of thieves it would not have stopped him from being righteous in God's eyes, because God had given that authority to the state.  
That Joseph was approved by God is seen in the fact that the twelve tribes of spiritual Israel mentioned in Revelation  7 verse 8, includes his name, whereas in the literal twelve tribes of Israel  his sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, are mentioned.  Also in the Christian Greek Scriptures Joseph is included in the "great cloud" of Witnesses whose faith is worthy of imitation.  It mentioned at verse 22 of chapter 11 of Hebrews that "By faith Joseph, nearing his end, spoke of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and he gave instructions concerning his bones. We see his actual request at Genesis 50:24,25. That this was carried out we see in the record at Joshua 24:32: "The bones of Joseph, which the Israelites had brought up out of Egypt, were buried in Shechem in the portion of the field that Jacob had acquired from the sons of Hamor,  Shechem's father, for 100 pieces of money; and it became the inheritance of the sons of Joseph."
I wanted to include God's approval of the worship of the Syrian war chief Naaman on becoming a worshipper of the True God but don't wish to be too long. Check the record at 2 Kings 5:15-18. 
 However, for Christians it is a little different.  The apostle Paul goes further than Jesus in explaining the spirit of the Christian law. Since Jesus's ransom  sacrifice, all nations are one under Christ. When Peter cut off the high priests ear in the garden of Gethsemane at the time of Jesus' arrest, Jesus healed it and restored the ear and rebuked Peter., saying those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword. He had told Christians to be neutral in John 17:15-17, namely "..They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."  That the character of a soldier was not in keeping with the character of a Christian, the apostle Paul wrote to Titus and Timothy: 1 Tim 3:2, 3: 2 "The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach, 3  not a drunkard, not violent (or a smiter - footnote), but reasonable, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money...". 
History of the first century Christians show they did not take jobs which entailed violence of any sort, but they cooperated with those who had the sword by obeying the laws of the land.  (Romans 13)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Well it appears it was nobody......for nearly 2 000 years. The prophecy applies to the time of the end, that's what I was trying to say.
As Arauna says: The King of the North appears again after Jesus was crowned*...
(it won't let me quote from more than one post. It used to be possible.....what happened? @The Librarian)
*Of course JWI would say this was in the first century

Yes, and we learned recently that by and large God's people went into captivity to Babylon the Great  (Christendom, etc) around 200 CE and emerged again around 1919 liberating light again began to shine - Bible Students Association, etc).  So we are looking at the King of the North from thenceforth, when true worship was revived.  (This is not to say that Jehovah had no worshippers on earth during that long period - we  had Bible translators that persisted even unto death; non-Trinitarians burned to the stake, scientists and artists who definitely believed in God like Sir Isaac Newton, etc)  There was no organized true religion during that period until 1919.  Jesus said the wheat and the weeds would grow together until the last days, the harvest time. (Matt 13:25-30)  So there were wheat-like persons who believed the Bible and worshipped to the best of their ability and perception during that period.  As the True God, he must have Witnesses. (Isaiah 43) False gods have none.
We learned recently that it was not in 1776 when America gained Independence but later when Britain and America began to cooperate together that the Anglo-American world power came into force. So Britain-America has been the King of the South for some time now.  (Was looking for this information yesterday but I did not find the source, so this is just all from memory and perception.)  Perhaps JWI, Arauna  or someone else may wish to bring out these points better. I am a bit busy today.  

JW snobbery at it's best. But this 'club' is supposed to be about God / religion / spiritual matters. 
Though of course JWs are sooooooooooo brainwashed as to believe that only JWs know anything about YHWH and Yeshua.  
But hey, stay in your closset with your JW secrets, it's the best place for you. 

Agreed = I have the same sentiments.  My mother, when close to her 80s used to reread Agatha Christy because she said she could not remember how they ended BUT as you say it is sometimes the emotional and intellectual journey to get from point to point in a drama that makes it good!
 

A long time ago I researched the Book of Abraham.  It uses an "adapted" picture from a Book of the DEAD and the funerary text which was  found with a mummy/  Joseph smith only bought this papyri and then pretended that he received "devine help'  to translate it.  Later the papyri was said to have burnt (in a fire that was deliberately set).  
About the translation: Wikipedia has a highlighted paragraph which you can read here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham#:~:text=Church leadership traditionally described the,of the book of Abraham".
It also tells that they found some of the texts that he was supposed to have translated and what 

A long time ago I researched the Book of Abraham.  It uses an "adapted" picture from a Book of the DEAD and the funerary text which was  found with a mummy/  Joseph smith only bought this papyri and then pretended that he received "devine help'  to translate it.  Later the papyri was said to have burnt (in a fire that was deliberately set).  
About the translation: Wikipedia has a highlighted paragraph which you can read here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham#:~:text=Church leadership traditionally described the,of the book of Abraham".
It also tells that they found some of the texts that he was supposed to have translated and what 

The king of the North was not visible after the destruction of Jerusalem.  The King of the north and South was very visible as part of the Greek empire until the last King of the North - Rome (which actually also gained control of Egypt (Julius Caesar and mark Anthony).  The bible then mentions the "exactor (Augustus) and the despised one - Tiberius Caesar during the impalement of Jesus.
The King of the North appears again after Jesus was crowned and a visible people of Jehovah would be on earth that renders pure worship. The Slave were approved in 1919. (For the sake of history we must look where the King of the North came from before 1914 as he had to come from somewhere.)  Germany was unified into one country - the city states amalgamated. They grew into a industrial powerhouse and eventually the eldest grandson of queen Victoria, Wilhelm 2, came up against the king of the south (Anglo-american world power).  This Great wat and WW2 forged England and USA  into a dominating power. Of course there was much maneuvering behind the scenes. 
 
Now we have the pushing of south and the north in the same fashion they have done for decades.  CIA still toppling governments in color revolutions and shenanigans of legitimate regime changes... bringing chaos and extreme corruption in its wake.  They have fleeced Ukraine and are using her as a pawn with no intention to help except send weapons to turn this into an Afghanistan (maybe) or get Putin to play ball with the New world Order.  He attended klausch schwab (Young leaders indoctrination school),  but he is a lover of nationalism and want to keep his nation separate from the NWO.
China will take Taiwan but will get away with it (I think) since they are the darling of the UN.  The UN are now negotiating  a new agreement to give WHO (UN) full powers over all the world health.... all countries will be forced to adhere. America has signed. We will see how far they get with NWO. Putin - will he capitulate or remain separate as King of the North?  We will see.

The king of the North was not visible after the destruction of Jerusalem.  The King of the north and South was very visible as part of the Greek empire until the last King of the North - Rome (which actually also gained control of Egypt (Julius Caesar and mark Anthony).  The bible then mentions the "exactor (Augustus) and the despised one - Tiberius Caesar during the impalement of Jesus.
The King of the North appears again after Jesus was crowned and a visible people of Jehovah would be on earth that renders pure worship. The Slave were approved in 1919. (For the sake of history we must look where the King of the North came from before 1914 as he had to come from somewhere.)  Germany was unified into one country - the city states amalgamated. They grew into a industrial powerhouse and eventually the eldest grandson of queen Victoria, Wilhelm 2, came up against the king of the south (Anglo-american world power).  This Great wat and WW2 forged England and USA  into a dominating power. Of course there was much maneuvering behind the scenes. 
 
Now we have the pushing of south and the north in the same fashion they have done for decades.  CIA still toppling governments in color revolutions and shenanigans of legitimate regime changes... bringing chaos and extreme corruption in its wake.  They have fleeced Ukraine and are using her as a pawn with no intention to help except send weapons to turn this into an Afghanistan (maybe) or get Putin to play ball with the New world Order.  He attended klausch schwab (Young leaders indoctrination school),  but he is a lover of nationalism and want to keep his nation separate from the NWO.
China will take Taiwan but will get away with it (I think) since they are the darling of the UN.  The UN are now negotiating  a new agreement to give WHO (UN) full powers over all the world health.... all countries will be forced to adhere. America has signed. We will see how far they get with NWO. Putin - will he capitulate or remain separate as King of the North?  We will see.

A long time ago I researched the Book of Abraham.  It uses an "adapted" picture from a Book of the DEAD and the funerary text which was  found with a mummy/  Joseph smith only bought this papyri and then pretended that he received "devine help'  to translate it.  Later the papyri was said to have burnt (in a fire that was deliberately set).  
About the translation: Wikipedia has a highlighted paragraph which you can read here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham#:~:text=Church leadership traditionally described the,of the book of Abraham".
It also tells that they found some of the texts that he was supposed to have translated and what 

Agreed = I have the same sentiments.  My mother, when close to her 80s used to reread Agatha Christy because she said she could not remember how they ended BUT as you say it is sometimes the emotional and intellectual journey to get from point to point in a drama that makes it good!
 

They have a massive amount of control legally attained..which in itself was corrupt…most people here do not realise that as we  were by nature not interested in politics .It seems legally everything is in place for them to start turning on anyones faith when they see fit .

True, he only intervened in human affairs when his future purpose was in jeopardy such as when he warned Joseph that Jesus' life was in peril.  Jehovah does not as a rule take control of human affairs but does work towards his goal when he has prophesied events such as the prophecy concerning Cyrus.  Cyrus was anointed by Jehovah for a certain job...... to send Israel back and build the temple.  Jehovah gave him special capabilities in order for him to unite all the tribes of the Persian empire almost overnight.  There was NO empire and them there was one.
 
 It is in prophecy that the king of the North as this time (Germany) would act against the nation of God and also that he would not prevail.... But it is also prophesied that the League of nations (which went into the abyss at start of WW2), would again re-appear and get life blown into it from the Anglo-American world power as the UN (image of the beast). Rev 13:15.   
Consequently,  Jehovah does not step into human affairs to help us because humans (Adam) chose independence from God and self-rule without his "good and bad".  God has allowed humans to rule the earth without Him to prove that humans cannot rule the earth successfully when they do not follow his moral guidance.  If God acts like a fairy godmother and fixes all problems as the occur,  then he will be helping the renegade governments and in the process destroy his own case that humans cannot rule successfully without Him.

No - not true.  If you read our publications it was Germany before Russia.  Germany stopped the preaching work and put Jehovah's people in prison.  
There is a separate prophecy which deals with the incarceration of the GB in prison- which happened in the realm of the King of the South.

The first revolution was a color revolution (orange revolution) - CIA has orchestrated many of these across the world.  They also changed the regime again at the last election with puppets in power.  The extreme corruption came when George Soros opened his NGO to "fight" corruption. The shenanigans of president Biden and his son in Ukraine is absolutely shocking but this was covered up.  What I learn from this is that ALL human government is absolutely corrupt and will stoop at nothing that is in their way. Human laws are made to be broken when the top echelons of society are forcing their will on the people. Honest men are fired and people are secretly killed or suicided.  Ukraine has been stolen of all their riches. 
Putin is justifying this war - and while he has more than enough evidence and good reason to distrust the West - we know he represents the king of the North and will get a message from the remote north and east (Jehovah and Jesus) and go out to annihilate... (most probably together with his allies).....before he comes to his demise.... but this will happen at jehovah's time when the West and King of North have both reached the point where Jehovah decides - now is the time.
It has been 70 years now that the UN has been identified as the image of the beast.  With perestroika the west was fooled just as they have been with China's sudden capitalism....... but it is 'stakeholder capitalism".....and China and USA elites have their money interwoven in the west..... even Putin has money hidden in the west. 
Does anyone here need any more confirmation that we are at the end of the end times?  It may still be a year or three - in which very much can happen.  All I do know is that they are planning digital identity documents for all nations in the west and have been forcefully jabbing people in the poorest regions of the world such as a province in India.  They want to keep track of all the billions in Africa and India so they can control the environment and who may eat what . 

True, he only intervened in human affairs when his future purpose was in jeopardy such as when he warned Joseph that Jesus' life was in peril.  Jehovah does not as a rule take control of human affairs but does work towards his goal when he has prophesied events such as the prophecy concerning Cyrus.  Cyrus was anointed by Jehovah for a certain job...... to send Israel back and build the temple.  Jehovah gave him special capabilities in order for him to unite all the tribes of the Persian empire almost overnight.  There was NO empire and them there was one.
 
 It is in prophecy that the king of the North as this time (Germany) would act against the nation of God and also that he would not prevail.... But it is also prophesied that the League of nations (which went into the abyss at start of WW2), would again re-appear and get life blown into it from the Anglo-American world power as the UN (image of the beast). Rev 13:15.   
Consequently,  Jehovah does not step into human affairs to help us because humans (Adam) chose independence from God and self-rule without his "good and bad".  God has allowed humans to rule the earth without Him to prove that humans cannot rule the earth successfully when they do not follow his moral guidance.  If God acts like a fairy godmother and fixes all problems as the occur,  then he will be helping the renegade governments and in the process destroy his own case that humans cannot rule successfully without Him.

Jehovah is the judge of us all - Titus 1:15
15  All things are clean to clean people; but to those who are defiled and faithless, nothing is clean, for both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
There were many wars in the past, as you mentioned, but this one at present involves one of the players mentioned in the Bible.......... I compare it to the Christians who fled to the mountains in 70CE.  While there, they kept alert to the news when Rome would come back ...... not just out of curiosity but because they firmly believed in the prophecy given by Jesus.
So, I do not neglect prophecy but keep looking to understand.
 

True, he only intervened in human affairs when his future purpose was in jeopardy such as when he warned Joseph that Jesus' life was in peril.  Jehovah does not as a rule take control of human affairs but does work towards his goal when he has prophesied events such as the prophecy concerning Cyrus.  Cyrus was anointed by Jehovah for a certain job...... to send Israel back and build the temple.  Jehovah gave him special capabilities in order for him to unite all the tribes of the Persian empire almost overnight.  There was NO empire and them there was one.
 
 It is in prophecy that the king of the North as this time (Germany) would act against the nation of God and also that he would not prevail.... But it is also prophesied that the League of nations (which went into the abyss at start of WW2), would again re-appear and get life blown into it from the Anglo-American world power as the UN (image of the beast). Rev 13:15.   
Consequently,  Jehovah does not step into human affairs to help us because humans (Adam) chose independence from God and self-rule without his "good and bad".  God has allowed humans to rule the earth without Him to prove that humans cannot rule the earth successfully when they do not follow his moral guidance.  If God acts like a fairy godmother and fixes all problems as the occur,  then he will be helping the renegade governments and in the process destroy his own case that humans cannot rule successfully without Him.

We are not voting for anyone and we are not choosing a human leader. We are just having a discussion. Just yesterday in field service the group was having a similar discussion. Of course we know ultimately Jehovah will set matters straight. It's such a no brainer. We are not taking sides with politicians by discussing what's happening in the world right now. Don't let your misguided thoughts mislead you. 

Jehovah is the judge of us all - Titus 1:15
15  All things are clean to clean people; but to those who are defiled and faithless, nothing is clean, for both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
There were many wars in the past, as you mentioned, but this one at present involves one of the players mentioned in the Bible.......... I compare it to the Christians who fled to the mountains in 70CE.  While there, they kept alert to the news when Rome would come back ...... not just out of curiosity but because they firmly believed in the prophecy given by Jesus.
So, I do not neglect prophecy but keep looking to understand.
 

I agree with you totally - but an opinion does not necessarily express sympathy for one side or the other side.  Most of it is just to find clarity about the background of what is going on.  We are still in this world and cannot go out of it.
I am not prepared to watch movies all day (my eyes are too bad) or do internet field service for 14 hours solid....  I do not have that number of contacts.  So please tell me what I can do with my time?
I am a pensioner and apart from a walk on the beach, some cleaning and preparation of food and bible reading ..... I need to do some things.  I used to sing opera and make dresses and knit..... but now my eyes have become too bad and the voice a little rusty.... so I like to watch how Jehovah's prophecies are going into fulfillment.
... I do not suggest that you take ANY sides in this conflict.... that is showing favor to one of the sides of the Beast. 
As the GB have shown - we must not take our eyes of the promises of Jehovah and try to develop the qualities of Jesus - keep our eyes focused on Him. But it is natural to want to understand what is going on around you. 

This reminds me of a pal who used to complain how ones in his territory would act all excited about what he was preaching but would not do anything about it. 
As he put it, they hear him out and say: “Wow! What channel is it on?”