Arauna

The government of Jehovah is sure to come - it is not just a promise.  It will come when Jehovah says the time is right.
 
That is why the GB urge us to preach and fulfill the commission given by Jehovah.  Do you preach as the new testament continually urges us to do? 

I don’t even pretend to know how this works. I know what is the place of safety. I know what is my obligation to publicize it. Everything else involves matters “too great for me.” 
Can you be some distance from the place of safety or not on millimeter? Dunno. “Is it only Jehovah’s Witnesses who will be saved?” someone asked my daughter, a need-greater. “Well—I’m not Jesus, and I don’t know,” she replied. What of the verse that you will by no means complete the circuit of Israel before the son of man arrives? How does that factor in? Will Jehovah pull some last minute trick like he did with Jonah?
It is enough to know that he can read hearts. I’ll just do an Abraham and say, “is not the God of the entire earth going to do what is right?” After Armageddon, (let us assume that I find myself on the other side of it) I will look around, see who I see, and say, “I guess that is what’s right.”
All we can do is what we can do. Between house-to-house, carts, internet, and just plain zeal, what we have done is a lot. Is the kingdom the burning issue in everyone’s mind that they consciously approve or reject, as much of our material would suggest? Or is it that people are consumed with the day-to-day and “take no note” of what is happening around them, as also much of our material would suggest? What is the interplay between the two?
The issue is do people prefer government by God or government by men. The GB would be negligent to not continually stress the place of safety and call attention to verses that indicate you’d better be there. They would be negligent to not urge those there to prioritize their lives so as to join Christ in saying “Come,” They have not been negligent. Imitate them, says 2 Thess 3:7-9. Imitate their faith, says Heb 13:17, a faith that has manifested itself as deeds, because faith without works is dead.
That is enough for me to go on. You don’t have to know every little thing. Not a sparrow falls to the ground unseen by the Father. That doesn’t mean that it doesn’t fall. How many will fall, and why, and how many will stand?
 

https://www.wgrz.com/video/news/local/full-interview-with-robert-hendriks-us-spokesman-for-jehovahs-witnesses/71-de5a2a93-b078-4b01-bca0-201cc91b49b1

Last night my mother called and said that they just had the circuit overseer who asked a question: Which Bible character was confined to his own place for a long time?
I said, don't tell me, let me guess. Uzziah?
She said, no. But wasn't he the one who steadied the ark?
I said, no that was Uzzah. King Uzziah had to be confined at home for leprosy.
She said, well it wasn't Uzziah. It was Noah. And that the circuit overseer said that at least we don't have to be confined with a bunch of stinky animals.
And I said, "Says you!" (We have two dogs, two cats, 10 fish. I was not, repeat not, referring to any son of mine who hasn't cleaned his room in over two weeks.)
And then, I added that Noah steadied the Ark, too. He had to keep the elephants and hippos at the four corners to keep it balanced, then "steady as she goes!!"

Did she say that? Next thing it will be all roads leading to heaven. Has she gone back to the trinity yet?
I suppose I should go back and read through it, but since 90% of what she posts is of how the Great 8 have run her off the road and consigned her to Facebook, I’m just not up to it. 

I think all one need do is extrapolate from present trends, or from those in Moses’ time. They will not be rebelling in their own eyes. They will be ones pointing out that the guardrails are hemming them in from doing all of which humans are capable. They may be ones pointing out that certain individuals have lost their way. Maybe there will be reformers. To say that there will be whistleblowers might be going too far—after all, are speaking of paradise—but as Srecko points out, “humans are brutal.” Who knows what sort of rationalizations they may dream up in pursuit of what they want? Humans have proved resourceful in that regard.

You quote this scripture but you still think it OK to mix with such ones on a social level? You condemn us for disfellowshipping such ones?  Where is the hypocrisy? hhhhmmmmm.

Fornication - if your son had proof of this - he himself was guilty as an accomplice -  because he did not let the elders know.  He knows the principles set out in the bible.... we learn that we should not tolerate wickedness amongst us.  We do not help to cover up a problem, or wrongdoing.  How many times did David not write in the Psalms that he does not sit with the wicked or tolerate their deeds.
So your own thinking is warped as you assisted your son to accuse the elders …….but not to be part of the solution to the problem - to show courage and go to the elders and provide evidence,  ....…...or at least warn them so they could talk to the young man.....about his partying and drinking. 
If your son did not have proof of fornication to take to the elders but did not warn them that the young man is on a  self-indulgent path - he is is as guilty as you...I presume he had some warped guidance from you or have the same attitude as you.   He, like you, expected to get a guilty conviction from elders for behavior they probably were unaware of; they probably had no idea of the extent of the partying.  If there was not enough proof of adultery, your son could still have been part of the solution but instead blamed it on …...….privilege?  Victimhood attitude?  He could have been brave and been part of the solution but no, it is easier to be self-righteously superior and accuse the,,,,, privilege.... Did he expect the elders to have a crystal ball?  Did he expect the elders to follow up on the young man when they did not know that it was a pattern of behavior...  
Elders would have asked the young man if it is true.... maybe even believed his ...excuses...... but the young man would have been warned that he is on their radar.    Your son would have had the satisfaction that he pleased Jehovah - not people.     So if this issue came up again by another person telling the elders about the partying and drinking..... 2 witnesses,,,,that would be enough for elders to get serious about the young man and realize he is hiding something and maybe outright ask him if he has been involved in fornication...…
So your example is not proof of injustice and 'privilege' but proof of a sons cowardice to show integrity to snitch on buddies, which is as destructive as self-righteousness.

Seen enough of your warped accusations and logic. As I said before - you feed off your hate somehow...which is not based on justice.  It is based on raw emotion of hate for everything to do with JWs, GB.  Arguments that show both sides ( and there are people on this forum who are prepared to meet your arguments by validating some things you say, to try to think the way you do, in order to reason with you) these people do not touch your reasoning abilities at all. It is like Ground Hog Day (over and over) same old same old.... talking to you.
There is another person on here - same thing.  Over emotional - no sound biblical reasoning. Just triggered. triggered all the time …,,,, not using the bible  as a sound, logical, healthy disciplining tool (which I am prepared to listen to if arguments are based on reality) but as a self-righteous weapon to accuse, accuse, accuse...…… . It is really like ground hog day talking to you guys.  I have seen such good reasoning here on this forum and have learnt a lot myself.... but with you two - it is like a cul-de-sac - the pits. 

They lived for the purpose that Jehovah created them for and adapted to wicked humans and still survived.  They suffered terribly as Tom said... especially in war time.
I think animals did not eat meat - (I do not believe all these fabricated stories of the T. Rex eating meat) but some animals may have been used to clean up the earth, eating carrion. But I think we will have to wait and see in the new system. Now it is only speculation.  

They recently let loose genetically engineered mosquitos in florida… because they carry west Nile virus etc. … it is really troubling how scientists  are playing at being god and just genetically engineer what they want. any animal that eats mosquitoes will have adverse effects.  Monarch also died like flies when their food source was genetically engineered.

I hope so - but if not, I am content to obey and live forever.... 

I hope so - but if not, I am content to obey and live forever.... 

For me, if I must stay up that late, the tree of life becomes the coffee bean tree.

Lol, yes, that's my way of trying to stay on topic. Seriously though, spellcheck is a pain on my phone. It does whatever. My fault for not noticing though. Perhaps that was Furuli's problem too....

Yes only humans have eternity in their hearts.  But at present the entire creation is suffering due to Adam's sin. Animals are abused etc.
Animals have been having babies and doing their thing for millennia - almost perfectly.  But when their mitochondria die - they die. Humans have added stress to the animals. To see genetic defects amongst them used to be rare but it is now becoming more and more prevalent due to pollution in the environment and other stressors.  Their environments are being destroyed by man and they are being used as a commodity - for medicine etc.

I think it was clear that Arauna was referring to humans, not animals. Jehovah was the first to create beings that died, and they died before Satan could cause Eve and Adam to rebel.
Are we back to discussing Furuli's book again? That's the way he spells immortality in at least one place, too.
Just to go off topic a bit more, the view on whether animals died prior to Adam has been pretty consistent. One of the reasons that some fundamentalists need to deny the age of dinosaurs is that they don't want them to have died until Adam sinned. We also used to insist that the animals prior to Adam didn't kill each other for food, going back to Russell, Rutherford, Franz, but this is not insisted upon anymore. Of course, Russell also believed that since animals were so much lower than humans that Jehovah could have used evolution to develop them into their specific kinds.
Going back only half as far as Russell we have a 1950 Watchtower that gives a good answer that's still consistent with current teachings, about how animals lived and died, and will be expected to live and die, even in the new system. (Also happens to cover that point about the kind of death that is destroyed in the lake of fire.)
*** w50 10/15 p. 399 Questions From Readers ***
● Revelation 21:4 says that in the new world there will be no more death. Does this mean that even animals will not die then?—M. I., New York.
This text does not mean that all death will be eliminated. Rebellious human creatures will die during Christ’s millennial reign, and those siding with Satan at the end of the thousand years will perish. (Isa. 65:17, 20; Rev. 20:7-10) True, Revelation 20:14 shows death destroyed and thereafter Revelation 21:4 says there will be no more death, but the death referred to is death due to inheritance from Adam. Men will not then degenerate and die because of Adam’s transgression, but at any future time Jehovah God could execute any willful rebel that would disrupt the peace of the new world. Hence Revelation 21:4 speaks only of the Adamic death of humans, and has no application to the animal realm.
As to whether animals will die in the new world we cannot be dogmatic. It appears that men will not kill them for food, nor will animals prey upon one another. In the new world Jehovah’s original purpose relative to food supplies will be realized, as stated to Adam and Eve: “See, I give you all the seed-bearing plants that are found all over the earth, and all the trees which have seed-bearing fruit; it shall be yours to eat. To all the wild beasts of the earth, to all the birds of the air, and to all the land reptiles, in which there is a living spirit, I give all the green plants for food.” (Gen. 1:29, 30, AT) If that outstanding carnivorous animal, the lion, is to “eat straw like the ox”, surely no others will be meat-eaters. (Isa. 11:6-9) Incidentally, this shows that Revelation 21:4 does not eliminate all death of organic life, for plants will die to become food for men and animals.
But merely that animals will not be used for food does not prove they will live forever. There is reason to believe they will die. Man’s disobedience in Eden did not bring death to animals—they had been living and dying and many forms becoming extinct for thousands of years before man’s creation. The new world will eliminate the effects of Adam’s disobedience, but that does not concern animal death. The status of the beast has remained unchanged since its creation—it lives out its life span and dies. At no time has it had set before it the prospect of eternal life.
Man’s position is different. Adam had hope of eternal life set before him, but that hope vanished when he failed to pass the test of obedience. Had he passed that test he doubtless would have eventually eaten of the “tree of life”. Through Adam all men lost the opportunity of eternal life, but through the ransoming work of Christ Jesus the opportunity is restored and men of good will may hope for eternal life in the new world. None of this concerns animals.
If a man is willfully wicked and scorns the ransom, he will never gain eternal life, though he lives for a few years now. He loses the better position of opportunity that is open for mankind, and drops into the same position as that of animals, a position that offers no opportunities of eternal life. Of such ones the inspired apostle Peter wrote: “But these men, like unreasoning animals born naturally to be caught and destroyed, will, in the things of which they are ignorant and speak abusively, even suffer destruction in their own course of destruction.”—2 Peter 2:12, NW.
If animals had opportunity for eternal life, why would these men who lose such opportunity be compared to them? There seems to be no Scriptural basis for arguing that animals will live forever in the new world, but rather that they will continue being born, maturing, bringing forth offspring, and dying. Argument to the contrary seems to be based largely on sentimental grounds.
 

Yes, that's how I understand it too.

1john 3: The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil.
All the results of satan's activities will be removed forever - which includes death.
 
Genesis 3:22 'Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.+ Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life+ and eat and live forever,*—” 
The test at end of 1000 years will truly test human's loyalty as perfect individuals - a second test will not be needed to know that they will remain loyal to Jehovah. Jehovah will provide everything needed to sustain their life forever. However, they will never have their own source of life - something which Jesus and 144000 is granted. immortality and incorruptibility.

I think we can look at it like this. According to Psalm 110, Jesus sits at Jehovah's right hand to rule in the midst of his enemies, and the various forms of death, such as from war, pestilence, famine, etc., are the primary enemies that Jesus rules in the midst of and ultimately 'put under his feet,' that is, conquered. So it's the "enemy death" that is conquered by finally destroying it permanently. If and when Jehovah uses "death" after the 1,000 years, it will be by his own hand, a cleansing, and will therefore be a "gift" to his people. The "sting" of the enemy, death, will be gone forever.
That's another topic. How do we "know" that humans on earth (after they "come to life" when the 1,000 years are completed) will not be immortal?

The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom publishes a document against Russian anti-cultist Alexander Dvorkin and his organization FECRIS, both supporters of religious persecution in China.
On July 17, 2020, the USCIRF, the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, unveiled a new document, whose title is “The  Anti-cult  Movement  and Religious  Regulation in Russia and the Former Soviet Union.” The USCIRF is an independent, bipartisan U.S. federal government commission created by the 1998 International Religious Freedom Act (IRFA). Its Commissioners are appointed by the President and by Congressional leaders of both political parties. 
The title may indicate that the document does not concern China, and in fact its main focus is Russia. However, there are three important connections between the new USCIRF report and China.
First, the report offers a detailed and accurate analysis of the activities of Alexander Dvorkin, a Russian activist who has led for almost thirty years campaigns against religious movements he has labeled as “cults.” As the report documents, he has been instrumental in preparing the repression of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia, and has attacked many other religious minorities. The USCIRF asks the government of the United States to “publicly censure Alexander Dvorkin and [his organization], the Saint Irenaeus of Lyon Information-Consultation Center (SILIC), for their ongoing disinformation campaign against religious minorities.”
The report mentions Dvorkin’s activities outside of Russia. Although this part of his “disinformation campaigns” is not mentioned by the USCIRF, Dvorkin has regularly supported the CCP in its repression of movements labeled as xie jiao. Dvorkin went repeatedly to China and Hong Kong to offer his support to the persecution of Falun Gong, to deny that the CCP is harvesting organs from prisoners of conscience, and to applaud the repression of The Church of Almighty God. In turn, the CCP has supported Dvorkin’s campaigns against the Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia, and “imported” them to China. While the CCP has introduced Dvorkin as an authoritative “Russian expert in sect studies,” the USCIRF report exposes him as a pseudo-expert “relying on discredited theories” and promoting religious intolerance and discrimination.
Second, Dvorkin, as the USCIRF report notes, has been active internationally as vice-president of a transnational anti-cult organization known as FECRIS, the European Federation of Research and Information Centers on Sectarianism. FECRIS is also notorious for the support several of its members, in addition to Dvorkin, have offered to the CCP’s persecution of Falun Gong in China. In turn, the CCP’s Anti-xie-jiao association has advertised and republished reports by the FECRIS against the Jehovah’s Witnesses and other groups. The more one investigates, the more one discovers a two-way relationship between FECRIS (and Dvorkin) and Chinese organizations who promote and justify the bloody persecution of Falun Gong, The Church of Almighty God, and other religious movements.
 
Read more: https://bitterwinter.org/uscirf-exposes-who-support-ccp-campaigns/
 
 

@4Jah2me   genesis 3:15. This is the first prophecy in the bible and predicts enmity between the seed (Jesus), the seed's offspring and satans offspring.   It indicates that Jesus would be hurt in the heel but that satan's head would be crushed.  A crushed head is a symbol of everlasting destruction.

It is only the greatest Witness holiday in America, that’s all! And you choose to remain ignorant! Shame!
We throw huge bashes on that day. It commemorates how the little rodent (part of God’s glorious creation—nothing idolatrous about the day at all, so Witness needn’t quote all of Ezekiel in outrage over it) pops up out of his hole, and if he sees his shadow, it means 6 more weeks of winter—or maybe it is that if he doesn’t see his shadow, it means six more weeks of that.

It is good to write books.

You are denying all the scriptures in the bible which refers to this.  So you are deliberately obtuse.  you are saying God is making an abnormal rule......You talk like an atheist. Why should I take you seriously when you do not take the bible seriously.  You say you accept the bible …… but only the parts you like.