Arauna

You quote this scripture but you still think it OK to mix with such ones on a social level? You condemn us for disfellowshipping such ones?  Where is the hypocrisy? hhhhmmmmm.

Fornication - if your son had proof of this - he himself was guilty as an accomplice -  because he did not let the elders know.  He knows the principles set out in the bible.... we learn that we should not tolerate wickedness amongst us.  We do not help to cover up a problem, or wrongdoing.  How many times did David not write in the Psalms that he does not sit with the wicked or tolerate their deeds.
So your own thinking is warped as you assisted your son to accuse the elders …….but not to be part of the solution to the problem - to show courage and go to the elders and provide evidence,  ....…...or at least warn them so they could talk to the young man.....about his partying and drinking. 
If your son did not have proof of fornication to take to the elders but did not warn them that the young man is on a  self-indulgent path - he is is as guilty as you...I presume he had some warped guidance from you or have the same attitude as you.   He, like you, expected to get a guilty conviction from elders for behavior they probably were unaware of; they probably had no idea of the extent of the partying.  If there was not enough proof of adultery, your son could still have been part of the solution but instead blamed it on …...….privilege?  Victimhood attitude?  He could have been brave and been part of the solution but no, it is easier to be self-righteously superior and accuse the,,,,, privilege.... Did he expect the elders to have a crystal ball?  Did he expect the elders to follow up on the young man when they did not know that it was a pattern of behavior...  
Elders would have asked the young man if it is true.... maybe even believed his ...excuses...... but the young man would have been warned that he is on their radar.    Your son would have had the satisfaction that he pleased Jehovah - not people.     So if this issue came up again by another person telling the elders about the partying and drinking..... 2 witnesses,,,,that would be enough for elders to get serious about the young man and realize he is hiding something and maybe outright ask him if he has been involved in fornication...…
So your example is not proof of injustice and 'privilege' but proof of a sons cowardice to show integrity to snitch on buddies, which is as destructive as self-righteousness.

Seen enough of your warped accusations and logic. As I said before - you feed off your hate somehow...which is not based on justice.  It is based on raw emotion of hate for everything to do with JWs, GB.  Arguments that show both sides ( and there are people on this forum who are prepared to meet your arguments by validating some things you say, to try to think the way you do, in order to reason with you) these people do not touch your reasoning abilities at all. It is like Ground Hog Day (over and over) same old same old.... talking to you.
There is another person on here - same thing.  Over emotional - no sound biblical reasoning. Just triggered. triggered all the time …,,,, not using the bible  as a sound, logical, healthy disciplining tool (which I am prepared to listen to if arguments are based on reality) but as a self-righteous weapon to accuse, accuse, accuse...…… . It is really like ground hog day talking to you guys.  I have seen such good reasoning here on this forum and have learnt a lot myself.... but with you two - it is like a cul-de-sac - the pits. 

Russian authorities have detained a man in western Siberia “on suspicion of setting up a cell” of the Jehovah’s Witnesses religious group, considered an “extremist” organization under Russian law, state-run news agency TASS reported on Wednesday.
Police detained the man recently in Seversk, a town in western Siberia’s Tomsk region. Investigators say the man and others affiliated with Jehovah’s Witnesses “organized meetings in 2017-2020, disseminated ‘extremist’ literature, and recruited new members” to the organization.
In a statement released on Wednesday, the Russian Investigative Committee’s press service said:
Investigators of the Russian Investigative Committee in the Tomsk Region based on the case files of the Federal Security Service and the Internal Affairs Ministry in the Tomsk Region opened a criminal case into … the activities of an extremist organization in the city of Seversk… The alleged organizer of the extremist organization’s activities was detained. He has been charged, the issue of choosing a restriction measure against him is being decided.
#jwrussia
Read more: https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2020/07/16/russia-escalates-war-christians-more-jehovahs-witnesses-arrests/

Well said. 
I sympathize with all victims but with the latest laws the government has shifted the responsibility of bad legislation onto all the organizations working with children.
The government changed the laws so the victims can go after old cases retroactively now they are adult and can talk and testify better and take the ' organization ' to court.  This means that the government is shifting its responsibility on the organizations who work with children. But many of these organizations have closed.... like boy scouts etc. We are still active.
There are not many JW cases but because it is JW, those who hate us blow up these cases as if we are all child molesters..... when most of us live clean, honest lives and hate these crimes.
They are not going after the perpetrator because they know it is too hard to convict.  They go after the organization - which in most cases did not have the resources ( child psychologists etc) to go after the perpetrator.
We are an organization which tries to create a safe environment for children but we are not a crime fighting organization. This is the job of the police and government. They should take these cases and get a conviction and put the perpetrator behind bars - not retroactively after 20 or 30 years put it on the organization.  
In this way the perpetrator is still walking free and JWs carry the shame. Perpetrator ....... does he have any consequences for his actions with this legislation! 

What part of Jehovah's word do all of you NOT understand?  You profess to be Christians, but hate the word of God which instructs us to not eat or speak to those who are repeat offenders.  Cesar mentioned a few scriptures above.  I can add quite a few more....
So what do you have against these scriptures?  Instead you attack JWs because we OBEY  (not elders) but the WORD of God.  You follow your own desires and hate us because we OBEY..
So - who are the HYPOCRITS?   Those who profess the bible but do not obey its finer details?  ... or JWs who DO obey the finer details?  HMMMMMM...… 
 

They may have put  it in writing a few places ……. However, I have never heard elders announce from the platform that someone was "shunned"  they always use the word "disfellowshipped".   That is the official term used.  This includes the meaning that a person can still come to meetings with restrictions if they accept the discipline.
To me this is a lot of nitpicking - because these accusers do NOT accept that the bible says. The bible is clear that we should have nothing to do with a repeat offender or share in his actions. No matter what terms are used for it.....   They therefore blacken the name of JWs  and thus thereby prove they are opposers of Jehovah's written word because this is a clear instruction from Jehovah to protect the congregation members from the "leaven" that can grow in a congregation. 

And these words do NOT  exist in our vocabulary. We use a different word which indicates that the person can still associate but without the privileges they had before.. So what part of this is hypocritical? The fact that you do not like that people do not have ALL the priviledged they had before?
Here you remind me of the parent who does not put the child in time-out as he said he would.  He still loves the child but the child needs consequences for actions taken....... 

Typical, 4Jah did not like this sentence.  He just likes the JWs to carry the blame to fulfill his hate-ocd.  He is not really interested in justice.... the perpetrator can go free and the JWs must 'pay' the penalty...… that is HIS kind of justice... (capitals deliberate).  The typical unreasonable guy I would NOT like to have as a friend.
 

What rubbish you people talk @JW Insider  @TrueTomHarley @Arauna 
Especially Tom as he can only make, what he thinks are jokes. His mind doesn't seem capable of sensible thinking. Poor man.
As for JWI, making very weak excuses for the GB and their Lawyers.  It just doesn't cut it. No one with any sense will believe you.
And i note you are using the WTS, not the CCJW. However the Leaders are in control of both, but pretended they are not connected to either, in court if I remember correctly. 
The Leaders of the CCJW / JW organisation made the rules that Child Sexual Abuse was to be dealt with internally and that outside authorities and the Police were not  to be notified. They also made the rules that Paedophiles were to kept hidden in the congregations. No announcement was to be made to the congregation and no name was to be given out. They also made the rule of using the Two Witness rule against victims. They also made the rule that Victims had to face the Paedophile that they were accusing. They also made the rule that the victim could not have a person to support them in the room whilst they were being questioned or when they had to face the Paedophile. A child had to be 'alone' without support, in a room with the Paedophile that had assaulted them, and also being questioned by three men. 
NOW YOU TELL ME THAT THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. What rubbish you talk. 
Remember that the money was there in the Org when these things were taking place. That money was probably invested and grew much profit. It's not all new money. So those that were victims of CSA deserve an apology and a payout. BUT no, the GB think it is their money. And you JWI said  "In most cases they are just using the law to protect the financial interests of the client." YES JWI, you have it in one. 
BUT they are misusing the law by directly telling LIES. And the GB / Lawyers have no interest in honesty, love, mercy or justice. It is all just Collateral Damage, so as to keep the money pot full in the CCJW. Mr Rook knew that too. 
What hypocrites you people really are. To pretend to people that the CCJW is such a safe place and so loving, when you know it's so untrue. Never mind, Almighty God will sort the GB out and form a true religion with the True Anointed. 

Well said. 
I sympathize with all victims but with the latest laws the government has shifted the responsibility of bad legislation onto all the organizations working with children.
The government changed the laws so the victims can go after old cases retroactively now they are adult and can talk and testify better and take the ' organization ' to court.  This means that the government is shifting its responsibility on the organizations who work with children. But many of these organizations have closed.... like boy scouts etc. We are still active.
There are not many JW cases but because it is JW, those who hate us blow up these cases as if we are all child molesters..... when most of us live clean, honest lives and hate these crimes.
They are not going after the perpetrator because they know it is too hard to convict.  They go after the organization - which in most cases did not have the resources ( child psychologists etc) to go after the perpetrator.
We are an organization which tries to create a safe environment for children but we are not a crime fighting organization. This is the job of the police and government. They should take these cases and get a conviction and put the perpetrator behind bars - not retroactively after 20 or 30 years put it on the organization.  
In this way the perpetrator is still walking free and JWs carry the shame. Perpetrator ....... does he have any consequences for his actions with this legislation! 

Am I to be disciplined?  Oh no not  4jah - he is going to decapitatate me

Well said. 
I sympathize with all victims but with the latest laws the government has shifted the responsibility of bad legislation onto all the organizations working with children.
The government changed the laws so the victims can go after old cases retroactively now they are adult and can talk and testify better and take the ' organization ' to court.  This means that the government is shifting its responsibility on the organizations who work with children. But many of these organizations have closed.... like boy scouts etc. We are still active.
There are not many JW cases but because it is JW, those who hate us blow up these cases as if we are all child molesters..... when most of us live clean, honest lives and hate these crimes.
They are not going after the perpetrator because they know it is too hard to convict.  They go after the organization - which in most cases did not have the resources ( child psychologists etc) to go after the perpetrator.
We are an organization which tries to create a safe environment for children but we are not a crime fighting organization. This is the job of the police and government. They should take these cases and get a conviction and put the perpetrator behind bars - not retroactively after 20 or 30 years put it on the organization.  
In this way the perpetrator is still walking free and JWs carry the shame. Perpetrator ....... does he have any consequences for his actions with this legislation! 

Well said. 
I sympathize with all victims but with the latest laws the government has shifted the responsibility of bad legislation onto all the organizations working with children.
The government changed the laws so the victims can go after old cases retroactively now they are adult and can talk and testify better and take the ' organization ' to court.  This means that the government is shifting its responsibility on the organizations who work with children. But many of these organizations have closed.... like boy scouts etc. We are still active.
There are not many JW cases but because it is JW, those who hate us blow up these cases as if we are all child molesters..... when most of us live clean, honest lives and hate these crimes.
They are not going after the perpetrator because they know it is too hard to convict.  They go after the organization - which in most cases did not have the resources ( child psychologists etc) to go after the perpetrator.
We are an organization which tries to create a safe environment for children but we are not a crime fighting organization. This is the job of the police and government. They should take these cases and get a conviction and put the perpetrator behind bars - not retroactively after 20 or 30 years put it on the organization.  
In this way the perpetrator is still walking free and JWs carry the shame. Perpetrator ....... does he have any consequences for his actions with this legislation! 

You know—he is right! Gasp! You are tipping your hand with capitalization of the letters!!!
Well, you won’t get away with it on my watch! From now on, you are merely uncapped ‘arauna’ in my book. (Relax—uncapped beats unhinged) In fact, in view of your disrespect, I may drop the first letter altogether, Ruana. That ought to teach you a lesson!

Jehovah will forgive the finger slip.... obviously you NOT.  Nitpicking is your forte.

I notice you are getting picky on silly acronyms - where I come from we do not use them but in USA they are popular... so I use them on this forum.   God is only a title..... so do not pick a fight on silly things to get away from being exposed.

You are the one who mentioned that people cannot drink a beer together etc. It is so harsh... well this is why I used the example of a child being put in time-out.  If you are in time-out... take the discipline of Jehovah and start to serve him again. Do not let your pride get the better of you.

That is applicable to any christian religion that follows the bible.... not just JWs.... the bible says you will die if you do not obey jehovah. Adam is in Gehenna and Satan and his demons will soon follow.. They obviously do not like what jehovah has to say, so they become victims.  They promote the idea of victimhood! Soon 'authorities' will scrutinize JWs for this view because this new victimhood culture is everywhere! Part of post modern philosophy. Everyone wants freedom with NO responsibility. Especially free morals.
Jehovah teaches freedom WITH much responsibility.  Everything you do - this can impact your neighbor.   Adultery, stealing, lying.... So, when you have a more developed conscience-  a more refined mature conscience.-  you will willingly obey all Jehovahs laws all the time because it not only benefits yourself but also blesses your neighbours.  You willingly exercise much self-control to not harm your neighbor because this is how a truly free society functions. Personal freedom with much personal responsibility. 
This concept was already built into the mosaic law - not to covet...... anything of your neighbor.  The person has to inspect themselves regularly to see if they covet anything their neighbour has, be it attention, love, good standing, a material thing.....Here the self-regulation manifests itself. 
But as we know - there are all those who are still immature, or those who think too much of their abilities.  I need not listen to anyone or show self-restraint...... and I do not like you telling me that I will die if I do not have an obedient personality..... that is all hogwash.... you just love to control......... These people have the audacity to even call jehovah a control-freek or a dictator.   They will help this world turn against all religion soon.... Those people without any law feel that religion is just a method to control people - they say. 
Jehovahs government under christ will allow much freedom because each person will be accountable to jehovah. Self-responsibility and self-control (willing obedience) will be crucial. All equal under perfect law driven by love for others. Jehovah will decide when the rebellious  get removed if they keep being rebellious. 
 

YOUR words are so twisted  - no logic. You do not see anything wrong with your reasoning?  
You are like a person who tells a child NOT to do something because it is bad....it will hurt his brother and himself......you will put them in time-out... for punishment. Then when the child deliberately does it …… you put him in time-out and he screams as if you are murdering him..... He plays the victim and gets attention by playing the victim.  He is so stubborn he does not calm down and think about what he did...…...so you feel ashamed for the discipline and take him out of time-out …..without the child ever learning that  there are consequences to his dangerous behavior and disobedience. (I have seen kids like this many times in my life - uncontrollable, especially in shops - because they have never had proper consequences for bad behavior). Then when these children turn out to be irresponsible as adults ….. because they are adults now they now become innocent? They have rights to break gods laws?  or do they need Jehovah's discipline if they want to serve him.... Or does Jehovah not discipline those he loves? 
Hebrews 12: “My son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, nor give up when you are corrected by him; 6  for those whom Jehovah loves he disciplines, in fact, scourges everyone whom he receives as a son.”  7  You need to endure as part of your discipline.God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?" 
Most JWs know there is consequences to a pattern of dangerous spiritual behavior.  They KNOW the consequences but are not prepared to take the time-out.  To humbly attend meetings will get them back on a path to reinstatement but NO their sensitive egos and rights are more important that serving Jehovah. They howl and scream like a stubborn child and publicly call the JWs and GB cruel etc.   Their stubbornness does not bring them favor with Jehovah or teach them respect or obedience to Jehovah's laws.  They apply the laws of Jehovah in the way their own DESIRES dictate.... then they howl in public how bad JWs are.... when we are the ones strictly adhering to the dictates of the very one (Jehovah) they claim to serve.
 

That is applicable to any christian religion that follows the bible.... not just JWs.... the bible says you will die if you do not obey jehovah. Adam is in Gehenna and Satan and his demons will soon follow.. They obviously do not like what jehovah has to say, so they become victims.  They promote the idea of victimhood! Soon 'authorities' will scrutinize JWs for this view because this new victimhood culture is everywhere! Part of post modern philosophy. Everyone wants freedom with NO responsibility. Especially free morals.
Jehovah teaches freedom WITH much responsibility.  Everything you do - this can impact your neighbor.   Adultery, stealing, lying.... So, when you have a more developed conscience-  a more refined mature conscience.-  you will willingly obey all Jehovahs laws all the time because it not only benefits yourself but also blesses your neighbours.  You willingly exercise much self-control to not harm your neighbor because this is how a truly free society functions. Personal freedom with much personal responsibility. 
This concept was already built into the mosaic law - not to covet...... anything of your neighbor.  The person has to inspect themselves regularly to see if they covet anything their neighbour has, be it attention, love, good standing, a material thing.....Here the self-regulation manifests itself. 
But as we know - there are all those who are still immature, or those who think too much of their abilities.  I need not listen to anyone or show self-restraint...... and I do not like you telling me that I will die if I do not have an obedient personality..... that is all hogwash.... you just love to control......... These people have the audacity to even call jehovah a control-freek or a dictator.   They will help this world turn against all religion soon.... Those people without any law feel that religion is just a method to control people - they say. 
Jehovahs government under christ will allow much freedom because each person will be accountable to jehovah. Self-responsibility and self-control (willing obedience) will be crucial. All equal under perfect law driven by love for others. Jehovah will decide when the rebellious  get removed if they keep being rebellious. 
 

For goodness sake John Butler, I mean 4Jah2me, there are no elders controlling this forum! 

Who did it? Me? Where please? I thing how i didn't mention GJ in this topic. 
And please, i never twisting other people words. If i comment their quotes that is not "twisting" :))

No. Sorry. I just highlighted some words of yours to get your attention. It does sort of look that I am attributing them to Glock, doesn’t it?
Do you mean they feared that if they left, Jehovah’s Witnesses would kill them?
When Fauci says people may die if they do not wear a mask, do people take it that he means to kill them himself? When the fire department says you may die if you don’t change the batteries of your smoke detector, does it mean they are going to do the deed themselves.
Of course not on all three. The game is too stupid to play. Such opposers are just upset that faith has power—they wish it were gutted. Of course, the Witnesses say that departing from Jehovah’s organized way exposes one to eventual death. A very good tell that such might be true is that whenever ones do it, in no time at all they come to think the Name itself is a hill of beans, and that it hardly matters if it is used or not.
 
 

How can one be so obtuse as Srecko? He fusses on and on about the GB’s counsel, as seen through the appreciative eyes of Glock. “It’s just good sound human advice,” he says. “What’s God got to do with it?”
He misses the point most powerful so as to focus on the petty. Tell Jehovah’s people to obey the secular authorities, and they will. Tell ones of the greater world to obey, and they won’t—as a group, I mean—obviously there will be a Bell curve, but it is where that Bell curve falls that determines success of failure.
Here is a post from CNBC entitled, “Salesforce’s Marc Benioff: Face masks can end the U.S. coronavirus crisis within weeks.”
Within, Benioff says: “If everyone in the United States wore a mask for 3 weeks — just 3 weeks — we would not have anymore coronavirus because there would be no more spread, but people do not want to wear masks.”
One would think that Srecko would be cheerleading for Jehovah’s Witnesses. One would think he would be urging all to come under their umbrella—for there is to be found the end of Covid-19 within three weeks. “People do not want to wear masks,” Benioff says. Witnesses do not want to wear them, either, but they are ready to 
It is as though it is a dirty word. Consistently Srecko uses it this way—he and all his cohorts raging on about the ‘control’ and ‘manipulation’ of the GB. In this case, such obedience, which JWs by and large will render, and huge portions of his people will not, will serve to rescue the earth from the pandemic.
In fact, the very position of the Governing Body makes clear that they do not attempt to control people. They set an example—and people will take note of their example because they are highly regarded—but they make clear that each family head is responsible for the course his own family. As states open up—they are all over the board on this, just as they are all over the board on CSA laws—“obedience to secular authority” translates differently to different places—some localities require masks and some don’t—and there are further variances as to the circumstances that masks ought be worn. 
Suffice it to say that, if governments universally mandated masks in public, Witnesses would comply. Vast swaths of the overall world would not. It may be human advice, but Witnesses will comply because of the Bible requirement to be obedient to secular authority. At least some of the CultExpert’s followers will use their #FreedomOfMind to tell the government where it can go with it’s regulations.
That is why the GB must be credited—for presiding over a culture in which people will obey laws of Caesar, providing only that Caesar does not over reach into matters of God. And on mandating masks for a limited period, he does not.