Witness
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Hi @Shiwiii,
I haven’t read your latest comments, but as I said I wanted to try again to comment on your initial thoughts.
Your words: “So if one has the spirit of Jesus within them, then they are heirs/sons/daughters/children of God. Now I would make the assumption here that you would agree, since you also state you are anointed. Is this anointing of the Holy Spirit or of the Spirit of the Son (Jesus)? Is it the same? if not, why not”
Here is what I wrote in my first response:
There is only one spirit that gives life from God and Christ (John 6:63); only one spirit that brings us to truth, (1 Cor 2:12) but the way we receive Holy spirit can differ, but it always reaches the heart. In the anointed ones, the Holy Spirit from God dwells within them. 1 Cor 6:19; John 14:17; Matt 10:20; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16
“Does these scriptures have a limited number of participants who can belong to Christ Jesus? I don't see any. So those who have the Spirit of Jesus within them are called heirs according to Galatians 4.”
The priesthood has limited number that God will determine, yet, why would he limit those children that are “born” when the New Covenant is fulfilled?
Is this the two class system? Is this the heavenly vs the earthly destination? Lets keep looking.
I don’t look at it as a “two class system”. Jesus fulfilled both promise covenants with the nation of Israel and Abraham. The law covenant with the nation of Israel is symbolized by Hagar, “in slavery with her children” and “born in the manner of flesh”, descendants of Abraham.
When Jesus died, the New Covenant was established. It became a symbolic promise of life with Jesus being the first recipient. 1 Cor 15:20,23 Spiritual “Israel” (“Sarah of God”), spiritual “Jerusalem” - the anointed ones, are now under a covenant/promise with God , the New Covenant. Rom 2:29; 1Pet 3:6; Gal 3:29; 6:15,16; Heb 11:10,13,16; Rev 21:2 This covenant is under the “free woman”, (free from the written law), and through the symbolic “Isaac” – Christ. Rom 1:6; 8:2; 8:17; 11:18; 12:23; 1 Cor 15:45; Gal 3:14
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”This occurs when the “woman”/ “New Covenant” is fulfilled by the full number of faithful priests/Temple/”New Jerusalem”/Bride (they are all the same), when they are sealed. We know the purpose of this promise is to bring forth seed, which is the “144,000”/Bride, completing the heavenly Temple. Zech 4:7 Christ began the Temple as the cornerstone, with the apostles and prophets comprising the foundation. Each anointed one is a “living stone”; if faithful and obedient, they are added/sealed into the Temple forever. That is the first step toward the fulfillment of the next “promise”, God’s Kingdom and the rest of Abraham’s offspring. Can you see how the union of the Bride (Sarah) with Christ brings forth more children – without the pain and suffering that the 144,000 had to endure in order to be sanctified? Rev 12:2
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“Nourishing Spiritual Food”?Â
I cannot advocate the website listed at the end of this short video, as I havenÂ’t gone there. Also I do not see verification that the money from the sale of houses, properties and goods was given to the Watchtower at that time period. But I will not dismiss the large possibility. What is important about this video, is hearing how 1975 was truly proclaimed from the source; quite contrary to how the 2017 convention presented it:Â
“…you see, back then, some were looking to a certain date as signifying the end of this old system of things. A few, even went so far as selling their homes and quitting their jobs. (km 5/1974)"
“But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.”Â
 You may say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?”  When a prophet speaks in Yahweh’s name, if the thing doesn’t follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him.             Deut 18:20-22
“This is what the LORD of Hosts says: "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are making you worthless. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the LORD's mouth.” Jer 23:16
“Behold, I am against the prophets, says Yahweh, who use their tongues, and say, He says. 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy lying dreams, says Yahweh, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their vain boasting: yet I didn’t send them, nor commanded them; neither do they profit this people at all, says Yahweh.” Jer 23:31-32
If we claim to read God's Word and live by it, then God's Word should help us distinguish truth from lies. Matt 3:10
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On 10/22/2017 at 6:29 AM, TrueTomHarley said:
She is the truly annointed one, she says, so does she do anything that one would reasonably expect an annointed one to do? How can you not ask those things?
What is it that you are expecting?
“Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw the city full of idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who met him. Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers alsowere conversing with him. Some said, “What does this babbler want to say?”
Others said, “He seems to be advocating foreign deities,” because he preached Jesus and the resurrection.
They took hold of him, and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is, which is spoken by you? For you bring certain strange things to our ears. We want to know therefore what these things mean.” Now all the Athenians and the strangers living there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell or to hear some new thing.
Paul stood in the middle of the Areopagus, and said, “You men of Athens, I perceive that you are very religious in all things. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ What therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you. The God who made the world and all things in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, doesn’t dwell in temples made with hands, neither is he served by men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself gives to all life and breath, and all things. He made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the surface of the earth, having determined appointed seasons, and the boundaries of their dwellings, that they should seek the Lord, if perhaps they might reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.
‘For in him we live, and move, and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his offspring.’ Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man. The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent, because he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained; of which he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.”
Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked; but others said, “We want to hear you again concerning this.”
Thus Paul went out from among them. But certain men joined with him, and believed, among whom also was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.” Acts 17:16-34
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Many thanks again, to @James Thomas Rook Jr. for showing such tolerance.
On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:Zion is the heavenly Jerusalem (government under Jesus) Hebrews 12:22 which is now leading the slave. You twist things to suit yourself.
You are right, Zion is the heavenly “New Jerusalem”, but maybe you didn’t read what the Watchtower stated – about Zion being the organization? How have I twisted Watchtower’s own words? Wt. 15/7/15 pp. 7-11
On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:Additionally, you have not answered my questions. Do you preach every day in public?
Yes, I am doing that right now, but not counting my time. Are you? I believe I have been all over the public “map”, called “Jehovah’s Witnesses”. Rev 11:1-3
Shouldn’t a good “witness” be one that testifies in truth? What good is “preaching” if it is laced with lies? If the Catholics came to your door preaching the trinity, how would you feel? Would you believe them?
If, while in your “preaching work”, you meet the same person at the door that initially received the Awake! magazine on 1975* from your very hands, ten years prior; how do you think THEY would feel about your “preaching work” and the “spiritually nourishing food” you pass on from the “faithful slave”? Do you expect them to receive you warmly? Should they overlook a false prophesy as JWs are cajoled into doing, convincing you to believe it is right with God? Jer 5:31; 12:6; Rom 16:18
On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:And do you belong to a congregation where you can attend meetings? You know you are told to do both by scripture!
Yes, would you like me to give you a link? It is called the anointed Body of Christ – those anointed who have been spiritually “killed” – disfellowshipped - for their testimony of Christ, not for an organization. There are many brethren who have joined them. Luke 17:31-17; Rev 12:6
On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:And if you do preach - do you preach about the Kingdom?
Yes, in truth, not under the guise that it was “born”in 1914, only to be followed by “birth pangs”. Matt 24:8 Truly, an unnatural phenomena.
On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:That is a future government? with subjects on earth? And a government of 144,000 in heaven?
I don’t believe you have read much that I have written here, which will give you more information on these questions.
One thing I don’t do is accept men and their rules who “guide” the sheep by their rulebook, and not the Bible.
“If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations: “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”? All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines. 23 Although these have a reputation for wisdom by promoting self-made religion, false humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence.” Col 2:20-23
They are self-serving; people take pride in a title they receive by following men’s regulations; and with it, are special privileges given them. This is the basis of the Watchtower’s religion.
On 10/20/2017 at 11:03 PM, Arauna said:The most important TEACHINGS are SPOT ON.... !
Like this one? “Come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation” Wt 81/11/15
Or, is it this one? “We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry – be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization.” Wt. 90/11/1
Have you ever wondered why Jesus told his disciples not to go from “house to house”, a command by Jesus which the Watchtower completely ignores? Luke 10:7 The soldiers of Herod were bent on killing the promised seed, the “firstborn”, Jesus Christ; the most efficient way was go “house to house” killing all the firstborn males, whomever they were. Matt 2:16-18
Where are the “firstfruits”/anointed ones and many others now found, but in the organization? How did they get there and why are they there? Gal 3:29,26 They were introduced to a taste of truth, which lead to their “captivity” to lies. Rev 12:17; Matt 2:18; Rev 13:7; 11:7; 6:9-11; Rev 13:10 Jesus well knew of this “delusion” that would come upon God’s people. 2 Thess 2:1-12
Because of their choice to leave Christ and follow an idol, God allows it to happen to his “royal priesthood” and any others who fall for it. It becomes their period of tribulation and refinement. Rev 2:14; 3:18
In both Matt 10 and Mark 13, Jesus highlights the warnings he gave to his disciples. Remember, his disciples are to preach to all the nations of Israel – God’s people.
“I came to the lost sheep of Israel”
Today’s “Israel” are the anointed ones.
“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues.” Matt 10:16,17
And Jesus, answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 6 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many.
“The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the Governing Body, they are in fact following their leader, Christ. Wt 9/15/2010”
"You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles". Matt 10:18
“But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be beaten in the synagogues. You will be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them” Mark 13:9
Councils, governors, kings, synagogues, wolves. The “Governing Body”, who, as anointed ones are “kings”, (1 Cor 4:8) symbolically “scourge” other anointed for their “testimony” of Christ. Matt 24:48-51This testimony is given to all “Gentiles” in the congregations/synagogues, and it is the “Gentile” “council” who spiritually “kills” them for doing so. Rev 2:9; 13:15; 11:7; Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1,2 Many anointed ones, as well as other JWs, have written letters to the congregations; exposing their lies and giving their full testimony – of Christ, whom they come to realize, is their only Head.
Matt 10:21,22; Mark 13:12,13 clearly show fulfillment when one is disfellowshipped and considered “dead”; all for Christ’s sake. They are hated, and called apostates; losing their families – for the name of Jesus. Matt 5:10,11; John 15:18-21
If you were to withdraw your eyes away from Satan’s world and look at the spiritual war and “earthquakes” between “nations” and “kingdoms” that involves the anointed, as they battle for either truth or lies; you would realize the Great Tribulation is upon us. Mark 13:24,25; Amos 9:9;Haggai 2:6,9; Heb 12:26-28; 2 Tim 2:3,4; 2 Cor 10:4,5
“When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.” Matt 10:23
This isn’t speaking of the literal nation of Israel, is it. Rev 7:4;21:12
Jesus brought “truth” to God’s people, as well as the cry to repent from their sins. The “two witnesses” (meaning “truth”) are those Jesus sends to the “holy people” during the time of the end, declaring they are to “come out of her, my people”. Rev 18:4-8; Zech chapter 4; Rev 11:1-7; (1 Cor 3:16,17)
This inspection and cleansing of God’s entire Temple/priesthood (1 Pet 2:5,9,10) certainly didn’t meet Christ’s approval during the years of1914-1919, as the Watchtower says. It is rather blatantly clear as to why. They were…
- Preaching that the “battle of the great day of God Almighty” (Rev. 16:14), would end in A.D. 1915
- Or that the “1000 years of Christ’s reign began in 1873
- That in 1918 God would destroy all churches
- That in 1925, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old” would return to human form
- preparing for the world to end in 1925
Although, they will have you believe Christ was happy with all of this. (w14 11/15 pp. 28-30) There were lies in their mouths then; and now, as they do their best to cover them over. Deut 18:20; Mal 3:1-3; 2 Pet 3:14; Rev 21:25-27
“For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.” Matt 10:26b
The “good news” is the restoration of “Jacob” – spiritual “Israel” - which has its fulfillment OUTSIDE of the Watchtower Idol. Isa 44:22; 48:20
*Awake! Is it Later Than You Think? Is Time Running Out for This Generation? What will the 1970’s Bring? October 8, 1968
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8 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
because source of that "food" is not Spirit but imperfect human.
Or, it has reached perfection through another spirit. 2 Cor 11:2-4; 2 Thess 2:9,10
- Srecko Sostar and Gnosis Pithos
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12 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
All those watching this dialog appreciate that effort ....
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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14 hours ago, Arauna said:
Jesus was speaking to those future anointed when he said: The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.
“Fine fruit” refers to teachings from the mouth of anointed ones. Mal 2:7 It doesn’t refer to numbers or physical accomplishments but to pure teachings following the laws of Christ, but you may already know this. Matt 7:24; John 6:57,63
Examine just two teachings of the GB:
Wt. 1968 May 1 p.272
"Some of the generation that discerned the beginning of the time of the end in 1914 will still be alive on earth to witness the end of this present wicked system of things at the battle of Armageddon.-Rev. 16:14, 16."
Is this what you believe today? Or has this piece of “fruit” rotted and fallen off the tree?
Wt. 1966,10/15 pp.629,631 "It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home!" .. Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could!
God does not make false promises; playing with lives through men’s doctrines, and filling their mind with false hopes. Jer 23:26;14:14 The GB use the excuse, ‘Jesus didn’t promise perfect food’. According to scripture, he gave us a precise illustration to discern a good “tree” from a bad “tree” showing us that yes, he did promise perfect food.
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly (within the heart) they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Thornbushes and thistles are weeds, are they not? Jesus is saying those who offer “bad fruit” are false prophets - weeds.
"Let both grow together until the harvest. At harvest time I'll tell the reapers: Gather the weeds first and tie them in bundles to burn them, but collect the wheat in my barn.' Matt 13:30
Each failed teaching by the Wt’s leaders/GB is bad fruit, which should tell you that they are no longer “part of the vine” of Christ, even if they appear “lamb-like” (Rev 13:11) Jesus’ teachings of life should fill the heart, causing those anointed that are part of the vine, to also speak words of life.
“ Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.” John 15:4 (Luke 8:15)
“If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.” John 15:7
Can you see this? Can you see that failed teachings are rotten fruit, not to be associated whatsoever with Christ, or excused by either Christ or God? Phil 2:16; John 5:24
“You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.” John 15:16 (James 1:21)
Watchtower’s historic and recent teachings are full of bad fruit!
14 hours ago, Arauna said:I have never seen a JW put their face towards the USA and make the 'organization a place of worship. To speak of accomplishment is not worship
It is the image of the organization as “spirit-directed” that is revered/worshiped; yet, with the work of man’s hands, the image is physically sustained. It is taught it has been given divine authority – the path to salvation. It is called “Jehovah’s arrangement”, proposing that the elder body represents and demonstrates the physical part of this image of authority over the anointed and brethren. Rev 13:14-18; Isa 2:8
It is considered to be “Zion”.
Wt. 15/7/15 pp. 7-11 – “Regardless of how long we have been in the truth, we must tell others about Jehovah’s organization. The existence of a spiritual paradise in the midst of a wicked, corrupt, and loveless world is a modern-day miracle! The wonders about Jehovah’s organization, or “Zion,” and the truth about the spiritual paradise must be joyfully passed on “to future generations.”
“Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.” Heb 8:1,2
Can you point to a scripture that describes Zion as an earthly organization?
Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 6:19; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 3:6; Rev 3:12;14:1
You should be able to discern from scriptures that Zion is God’s “Temple”/Holy City/sanctuary, and encompasses the faithful anointed. Rev 14:5
14 hours ago, Arauna said:We were cautioned recently that we should not even ask to have a photo taken with one of the governing body. So they do not get worship but do a function - of organizing the preaching world-wide and feeding the flock.
No photo needed. Their “fruit” tells all.
“The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the Governing Body, they are in fact following their leader, Christ. Wt 9/15/2010”
“Of course, those taking the lead in the earthly part of God’s organization are not perfect—but neither was Moses.” Watchtower 11/4/15 pp. 3-5
Moses, a prophet of God. Christ, the Son of God. And then we have the GB professing not to be inspired, who stumble over their own doctrine, and who cover errors in direction by putting the blame on Jesus.
Rom 14:4; Gal 1:10; Acts 5:29; Luke 16:13; Matt 15:8,9
- Gnosis Pithos, Shiwiii and Srecko Sostar
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6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:
Its ok, Everything I proposed is in my first post in this thread.
I want to try again, with more clarity.
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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:
Is this sound like hate speech?
Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.11
"Apostates “quietly” bring their ideas into the congregation, like criminals who secretly bring things into a country. Apostates use “counterfeit words.” This means that they say things that make their false ideas sound true, like criminals who make false documents look real. They try to get as many people as possible to believe their “deceptive teachings.” Peter also said that they like twisting the Scriptures. They explain Bible verses in the wrong way to make others believe their ideas. (2 Peter 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16) Apostates do not care about us. If we follow them, we will leave the road to everlasting life.
... The Bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them. (1 Timothy 6:3, 4) Jehovah is like that good doctor. He clearly tells us to stay away from false teachers. We must always be determined to follow his warning.Watchtower 2004 Feb 15 p.28
"It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and can contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene. (2 Timothy 2:16, 17) Rather, imitate God's response to apostates. Job said of Jehovah: "Before him no apostate will come in." - Job 13:16."Watchtower 1993 November 1 p.19
"True Christians share Jehovah's feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they "feel a loathing" toward those who have made themselves God's enemies, but they leave it to Jehovah to execute vengeance."Watchtower 1992 July 15 pp.12-13 Christ Hated Lawlessness-Do You?
"The obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you "Watchtower 1961 July 15 p.420 A Time and Place for Everything
Jesus encouraged his followers to love their enemies, but God's Word also says to "hate what is bad." When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked. Indicating that Jesus did not mean for us to love the hardened enemies of Jehovah, David expressed this God-approved attitude: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies."-Matt. 5:44; Amos 5:15; Ps. 139:21, 22.The last one is really twisted. "Jesus encouraged his followers to love their enemies, but God's Word"... Jesus did more than just "encourage" loving one's enemy, he said: "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven" Matt 5:44,45 Even though Jesus is the "Word", Wt. took his command and lessened its impact by stating it as, encouragement. It is therefore, okay to hate. John 1:1
"Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you." 1 John 3:13
- Srecko Sostar and Gnosis Pithos
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3 hours ago, Shiwiii said:
I'm not sure how any of what you wrote fits with what I proposed for discussion. Its like we're both talking science, I chemical bonds and you biology.
Shiwiii, I am sorry for the confusion; I thought I covered it. Can you restate the primary question?
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@James Thomas Rook Jr., I am responsible for contributing to going off topic, for which I apologize. If you can bend just a bit more, I would like to make one last comment on this thread to Arauna, but I’m all for moving it to another spot, since you have that ability, and I don’t.
@Arauna You interpret my words against the organization as pride and arrogance. Perhaps since you are, or were, a businessman, they intrude on your firm belief to uphold the concept of “organization”. Have I resisted God and Christ in what I’ve said, or have I supported them?
8 hours ago, Arauna said:Why do people expect JWs to tolerate all kinds of bad behavior when organizations in the WORLD do not even tolerate it?
Where do you think the organization exists? Perhaps in “middle earth”? What tools does it use to thrive, tools of some spiritual source not tainted by Satan’s world? It uses what any other organization does, which exist in Satan’s world. The Wt. is part of the world, there is no getting around it.
Nowhere in scripture is the organization’s existence supported. Jesus rejected the “organization” of his day.
“Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord’” Matt 23:38,39
His words can help us realize that no longer is any earthly entity to be endorsed by God.
Remember when his disciples were enamored by the beauty of the temple?
“Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!” Mark 13:1
(Sidepoint: It was said in a JW broadcast that people have made the comment, Warwick; it’s setting and building achievement, is like “paradise”.)
“Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.” Luke 21:5,6
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” But the temple he had spoken of was his body. John 2:19-21
Jesus was eluding to his “Body” of anointed ones who would become God’s new “Temple” – dwelling – house – New Jerusalem – Holy City – Zion. Isa 60:14,13; 1 Cor 3:16; Heb 12:22,23; Rev 14:1
“After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.” John 2:22
Do you believe his words? 1 Cor 12:27; 3:16,17
He reinforced this “new wine” (Luke 5:38) when speaking to the woman at the well.
“Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
Still, we find no evidence of a centralized earthly place of worship to come. Jesus specifically stated as such. If these scriptures are presented to the elder body by one who rejects the idea of an organization, what happens? If anyone questions its existence, by bringing ‘darkness to light’ (1 Cor 4:5); it is through the doctrine of men, that one can be disfellowshipped. John16:2; Heb.13:13; Mark13:13; 8:35
“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:
“‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me?
says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
Has not my hand made all these things?’The Watchtower claims that kingdom halls, assembly halls and Warwick are “God’s house”, which according to the scriptures is a lie.
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Acts 7:51
Would you say Stephen acted arrogantly by stating the truth, which were words supporting the new “Temple” arrangement? He was stoned for revealing it. Disfellowshipping is a spiritual “stoning”. For supporting what God has built, which is the anointed Body of Christ and refusing to give credence to an idol; also, for one’s “testimony to Christ”, the Watchtower spiritually “stones”an individual, causing families to be fractured, and labeling them as apostates.
Jesus said this would happen. Matt 5:11; Luke 12:51-53; Rev 13:7-15; Rev 12:11
There will never be justice in the organization, because although you zealously believe God endorses it, he only endorses what he has built – the Body of Christ.
Wt., through the direction of Satan, has created the “strong delusion”, an “operation of error” - that what man has built, is necessary for salvation. 2 Thess 2:9-12; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10 This delusion that God allows or “sends” has no other purpose than to “sift” the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”. Luke 22:31; Rev 12:17,3,4 Will they choose the false “safety” of the organization or the true fortress found only God? The Wt. is highly efficient in building up its perceived protective “fortress” and people believe it, they are admonished to do so. 1 Thess 5:3; 1 Pet 5:8; Ezek 13:10-14
Our spiritual heritage can also infuse in us a deep sense of spiritual security that can be enjoyed only within Jehovah’s organization. w05 2/15 pp. 17-22
Invariably, this counterfeit “Zion” has let thousands of people down, and as you have effectively done, the blame is put back on them for their “lack of faith”; apparently in God. In reality, they lose their faith in the organization, which in many instances then destroys their faith in God.
I posted the video to point out that people are waking up to the Watchtower idol, yet Bethelites have been “let go” for no reason and I believe you may know that.
“The wicked borrow and do not repay,
but the righteous give generouslyI have seen a wicked and ruthless man
flourishing like a luxuriant native tree,
but he soon passed away and was no more;
though I looked for him, he could not be found.“The salvation of the righteous comes from the Lord;
he is their stronghold in time of trouble.
The Lord helps them and delivers them;
he delivers them from the wicked and saves them,
because they take refuge in him. Ps 37:21,35,36,39,40I am sorry that you don’t realize that anointed ones can be sealed while still on the earth – either in the spirit of Satan, (John 6:70;13:2; 17:12; Rev 9:11) or in Christ (Heb 12:22; Rev 12:13,6,14). Blame the Watchtower.
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On 10/17/2017 at 12:22 AM, Arauna said:
One thing I have noticed with people who have no regard for Jehovah and his organization on this forum
I have heard no person here who is not a JW, say they have disregard for God. What they reject is how an organization has merged itself with God, as if God and the organization are one; thus, an idol.
“To whom will you liken Me, and make Me equal
And compare Me, that we should be alike?" Isa 46:5Interesting. Add the fact that it is touted as "spirit-directed" and you have a three person unity. Although, the true identities of this triune are:
"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, (organization) and out of the mouth of the false prophet (GB) For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth (anointed ones) and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty." Rev 16:13,14
  Â
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On 10/17/2017 at 4:11 AM, TrueTomHarley said:
Who would have thought scriptures could be weaponized?
Who would have thought?
God. Jesus. The Prophets. The Apostles.
Jer 23:29; Jer 5:14; Rev 11:3,5;Hos 6:5; Matt 24:50,51; 2 Cor 10:4,5; 2 Cor 6:7;
Eph 6:17; Rev 1:16; Heb 4:12; 1 Tim 1:18; 2 Tim 2:3; Rev 19:11,14; 17:14
etc.
The Beast/Watchtower boasts of using scriptures as weaponry; which you already know as the “silver sword”. However they twist the scriptures, it is used to “kill” through disfellowshipping.
And yes, Matthew 9969 is right about the boasting. It is an inherent characteristic of the Beast.
Rev 13:5-7,9,10; 11:7; 13:7;12:11; 6:9,11; 19:8
Using scriptural weaponry, the Beast/Man of Lawlessness is revealed, “the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming” Thess 2:1-4,8-11…
This “breath” is Holy Spirit given the “two witnesses” (symbolic for "truth") who are “killed” by the Beast. John 20:22
Yes, scriptures, the Word of God, can be weaponized by Holy Spirit.
Mal 3:1; Mat 10:40,20; Luke 21:15; Rev 22:16,6; Zech 4:6,14
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On 10/11/2017 at 1:40 PM, Shiwiii said:
but I'll wait for your response to dig deeper.
I have a friend who is not anointed. She has left the organization, is disfellowshipped; not for sin, but for rejections of lies. She now feels she knows the truth through Christ, by listening to him as God directed us. Luke 9:35 She happened to pray about one person she loves and who is still in the organization. Normally being someone who resists going to town, she was convinced by her daughter, a to go to the market with her. She went, the next day after praying for the individual. Surprisingly, she saw the very person in the market she had prayed for and was able to get a note to her discreetly even though another JW family member was there; a note about truth.
Was my friend blessed by Holy Spirit, does Holy Spirit reside in her? She feels her prayer was answered by the grace of God, as do I. Is it the same spirit that an anointed one receives? Yes. There is only one spirit that gives life from God and Christ (John 6:63); only one spirit that brings us to truth, (1 Cor 2:12) but the way we receive Holy spirit can differ, but it always reaches the heart. In the anointed ones, the Holy Spirit from God dwells within them. 1 Cor 6:19; John 14:17; Matt 10:20; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16
We can all be children of God, but the “firstborn” pave the way for the rest of God’s children, just as Christ’s sacrifice opened the way for life for those of His anointed Body/Bride through the New Covenant. Through them, through their sacrifice of denying themselves, submitting to purification through affliction caused by Satan’s demand to sift them as wheat, acknowledging God’s decrees written on the heart and living in harmony with them, brings about their “sealing” into the “heavens”. The early priesthood offered sacrifices to God on behalf of the people. The “holy priesthood” (1 Pet 2:5,9) offer themselves as a sacrifice on behalf of the rest of God’s children. 1 Pet 2:5; Rev 12:11 In this way, they imitate Christ fully. Christ and his Bride, will bring life to the rest of Abraham’s seed. She will be the fulfillment of the New Covenant – the heavenly “mother” of Gal 4:26
You mentioned Rom 8:9-11
If we read further:
“For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God (the sealed anointed ones). “
Doesn’t “creation” include mankind? Can you see the “sons of God” are separate, to be revealed?
“For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.”
Isn’t mankind in general under Satan’s corruptive rule?
“For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.”
Once New Covenant promise/”woman” “gives birth”, God’s Kingdom arrives. Gal 4:26,27
23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
This tells us that the Spirit is the same for all; but the anointed who must sacrifice their life for God’s other children, are the first recipients of life, just as the oldest child born in a family receives life first. As I had mentioned before, each anointed one under the New Covenant faces these “labor pains” of affliction and refinement.
Both covenants with the nation of Israel and Abraham, “Hagar”and “Sarah”, (Gal 4:24,25,31,36) were fulfilled by Jesus; who was the promised “seed” of Abraham (Gal 3:16). His mother was the covenant with the Jews (Israel), and Sarah. His Father was God and Abraham. Matt 3:17; Matt 1:1
The New Covenant promise – the “woman” who is in labor, is “Sarah”. Gal 4:26; Rev 12:1,2
Once the anointed have offered their “sacrifice”, and the “Bride”/Temple is complete, the “woman” promise/covenant “gives life” to the rest of God’s earthly family.(Rev 6:9; 14:1; Eph 1:10; 2:21; 1 Pet 2:5)
Heaven is not a final destination for the Bride/”144,000”. Rev 1:6; 5:9,10 Just as Srecko Sostar had commented on, they will walk among all God’s children upon the earth, since the earth is also their inheritance. To be “born again” as a “new creation” is both as a human and a spirit, which we saw Jesus do when appearing to the disciples after he rose from the dead. John 3:5,6,3 When they are called to heaven, it is to learn God’s decrees, and share with all his children, just as the early priesthood taught his people. Mal 2:7; Jer 31:33,34 Jacob had a dream of this when seeing the ladder and God’s angels “ascending and descending” from heaven to earth. Gen 28:12 Jesus also spoke of this in John 1:51, when they would be “ascending and descending on the Son of Man” – Jesus Christ. These angels are “messengers” – the anointed ones and Christ’s Bride, who worship Christ. Mark 14:62; Heb 12:1;Mat 25:31; Heb 1:6; Rev 21:2
If you read Isa 60, you can see “New Jerusalem”/ the Holy City/Temple/Zion will be on the earth through Christ and his Bride and among mankind. They are the dwelling of the spirit of God, which is how he will “dwell” among his children.
“But it happened that night that the word of the Lord came to Nathan, saying, “Go and tell My servant David, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Would you build a house for Me to dwell in? For I have not dwelt in a house since the time that I brought the children of Israel up from Egypt, even to this day, but have moved about in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 Wherever I have moved about with all the children of Israel, have I ever spoken a word to anyone from the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people Israel, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’ 2 Sam 7:4-7
“When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.” 2 Sam 4:12,13
Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
But He was speaking of the temple of His body” John 2:20-21
“Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.” Eph 2:19-22
“And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.” Rev 21:3
- Srecko Sostar and Gnosis Pithos
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3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
True, they will not be relevant and for that reason must be discounted 4 to 1.
How will you know they wouldn't be relevant, if you choose not to read them anyway?
Here's one made easy for you: Matt 7:5
If JWs boasting was in unchangeable truth, Matthew 9969 would most likely have a different view. The contradictions made on the website in various articles concerning pride and boasting is enough to make one's head spin.
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7 hours ago, Arauna said:
Does the Bible not say that those who judge have put themselves in Gods place?
That would be the GB who has authorized the elder body to disfellowship (labeling someone as spiritually dead) anointed ones and others, for rejecting lies, and for realizing Christ is our only Head. Matt 5:11; John 16:2; Rev 13:15; Rev 12:11
You may apply your scriptures to the leaders of the organization, unless you feel they are exempt from judgment. Matt 20:25-28; 1 John 3:11,12,15; Isa 66:5; Matt 23:34 No slave of Christ should lord it over anyone, but the GB does, to a significant degree.
7 hours ago, Arauna said:I suspect - if you were innocent - your attitude was not mild - you went down with a fight did you not?
I would never “fight” to remain in the organization that silences God’s anointed ones by expecting them to obey someone other than Christ. I would never “fight” to remain in an environment where a “wicked slave” governs over the anointed ones. Matt 24:48-51 I would never “fight” to support an idol, the organization that requires one to “identify” with it – be “marked” as part of it, Rev 13:16, where the “buying and selling” of spiritual food is regulated by this idolatrous image. Rev 13:17
But I would expose the lies that speak against my Lord and Master. 2 Cor 10:4-6; Mark 8:38; Matt 7:15-20
To the four elders who decided I must be disfellowshipped for rejecting the lie of 1914 and for accepting Christ as my only Head, I told them, “don’t worry, it’s all okay”. It’s all okay because I have finally been able to reach God and Christ personally, not through men. John 4:21-24 After telling me I would be disfellowshipped for “apostasy”, they said, rather stupidly, if you repent you are welcome back. I calmly told them I was not going back.
I give you the benefit of the doubt. You don’t know me. ?
7 hours ago, Arauna said:Who appointed you as the slave? You must be able to identify the slave because the bible asks: "Who is the slave?" matt 24:14
Do you remember when every anointed one was considered a “faithful and discreet slave” (which actually is Jesus’ decision upon his return Matt 25:23)? That connotation now only applies to 7 self-appointed men, (new doctrine) men who now silence the anointed ones, seeking their own prominence and power (yes!) while enforcing their lies. By doing this, they have fulfilled the identity of the “wicked slave”. Matt 24:48-51
7 hours ago, Arauna said:Mat 24:14 is a prophecy that only JWs are fulfilling earth-wide in the time of the end. This is a prophecy about the time of the end is it not?
Yes, it is a prophecy about the time of the end, but read Matt 10:23 and see who it is to receive the “good news”, not being preached to by the organization. The true “preaching” is to God’s wayward nation of spiritual “Israel” (the anointed ones), exposing the delusion, the man of lawlessness, that was to occur during the last days. 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:1,5-7,11,12,18 Was Jesus speaking of the entire globe in Matt 24:14? Look at Rom 10:18; 1:8; Acts 17:6; Col 1:6, 23; 1 Thess 1:8. Do you believe the entire world at that time was preached to, or was it to God’s nation? 1 Pet 5:10; Rev 3:10
7 hours ago, Arauna said:We do respect our shepherds because Jehovah is using them
7 hours ago, Arauna said:I think you should re-think your position and realize you are in dangerous waters. Yes, the shepherds are imperfect people like everyone else - just like Moses - who also had weaknesses. Do you remember how Korah lead a rebellion against Moses and said to him that he thinks too much of himself and Jehovah is not using him? Did Jehovah not take Korah and his followers out - even thought they professed to be servants of the true god Jehovah - But their attitude was haughty and rebellious?
This is my view from October 3rd under Controversial Posts, Anointed Ones and JW .org. It concerns the account of Korah and just who are the appropriate shepherds for God’s people. https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/32169-anointed-ones-and-jworg/?tab=comments#comment-68682
7 hours ago, Arauna said:but the only one we worship is Jehovah through his son, Jesus Christ.
Ask yourself, can you worship God without the organization? 2 Thess 2:1-12; Rev 13:4
7 hours ago, Arauna said:Maybe you have a problem with authority?
I recognize the authority of Christ as Head of the anointed Body of Christ. God has a problem with those who have usurped his Son’s position, and his "Temple" members; in fact he calls it a “disgusting thing”. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22
The anointed priesthood has been “trampled” by the elder body, a false priesthood. If anyone recognizes spiritual “Gentiles” standing in the “holy place” they are to FLEE. Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:15,16
“Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp (“camp of Israel”) of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
Well, the anointed “camp” are surrounded, held captive to a “wicked slave”. The threat of “death” hangs over them, if they choose to serve only one Master, Christ. The remaining ones of the woman’s seed must face this refinement before being sealed into the “heavens” – based on their love of lies, or of truth. Mal 3:1-3; Luke 22:31; 2 Thess 2:1-4; Rev 12:17; Matt 24:24,27
The symbolic “thousand years” are over. Satan has been let loose to deceive the holy ones. You can see my thoughts on this as well as another anointed one who has been blessed with great insight - here:
Dated Friday - https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/32169-anointed-ones-and-jworg/?tab=comments#comment-70086
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15 hours ago, Arauna said:
I have met some of the governing body and they are just people - very busy and not pandering to popular appeal - which I think is good! However, I do not agree with you that they are lovers of power.
A wolf in sheep’s clothing doesn’t appear as a wolf, but appears as a sheep. Matt.24:24-25; Rev.13:10; Luke21:24; Col.2:8
15 hours ago, Arauna said:It is only rebellious people or unrepentant ones who are dis-fellowshipped.
Does a person have to repent for rejecting a lie? Or should repentance come from the organization and its leaders, who rejects the person for their integrity to truth?
“For am I now trying to persuade people, or God? Or am I striving to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.” Gal 1:10
15 hours ago, Arauna said:But if you want to come closer to Jehovah - you have to apply yourself to put on the new personality - as we learn over this weekend in the Watchtower study. I know it is hard to navigate this world and some of us have non-conformist type of personalities....... but one has to pummel your body to do so. Those who do not stumble by correction will receive the crown of life.
This is done by leaving men who “bind” another’s conscience, and allowing only God and Christ to do so, bearing only one mark that directs our thinking. The source of ‘pummeling’ in the organization comes from men, their doctrine and demand for servitude. (Rev 13:16,17;14:9-12)
Deut 11:18 "You shall therefore lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be bound on your forehead." ( Ps.119:165; Col.3:15)
“So I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air.” 1 Cor 9:26 Truth is what brings discipline to the body, mind and soul. If an exhausted, enlightened JW becomes weary of men continually admonishing them to “keep running” with the organization, to fight on a battleground that makes no headway in drawing one closer to God, are they to blame for turning directly to the Father and Christ? Luke 16:15
“For you, being so wise, gladly put up with fools! In fact, you put up with it if someone enslaves you, if someone exploits you, if someone takes advantage of you, if someone is arrogant toward you, if someone slaps you in the face.” 2 Cor 11:19,10
15 hours ago, Arauna said:The problem is not with Jehovah's instruction - the problem is with them!
God never said to tolerate men who teach lies, that is his instruction. The problem is with the wolf in sheep’s clothing. Jer 23:32; 5:30,31; 29:8; Isa 28:7-10; 2 Thess 2:9-12
The organization has directed individuals to seek it as their Master to lead them; with many “masters” within it. This is exactly the opposite of God’s direction through his Son. Matt 6:24; 1 Thess 2:4-6; Rev 13:16 How does the organization get by with convincing millions to “serve” it? By saying it is “spirit-directed”, a gradual change from ‘no organization necessary’ to ‘you can’t live without it’ – an image conjured up as salvation. Rev 13:15; 16:13,14
Both anointed and those not anointed are disfellowshipped for rejecting it’s “headship”. 1 Tim 2:5 They are not the ones who are at fault with God for doing so. Rev 19:20; Rev.8:10-11; 2:5; 13:7,11
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Watchtower 00/10/15 - “After Armageddon, God’s Kingdom will usher in a marvelous “new earth” in which “righteousness is to dwell.” What a tremendous relief it will be for Armageddon survivors to be rid of this oppressive wicked system of things! How delighted they will be to have entered the righteous new world under the heavenly Kingdom government, with marvelous blessings and everlasting life in view!
BUT WAIT! According to the Watchtower, this is only temporary! At the thousand year mark of God’s Kingdom, Satan will be released. This time period leading up to his release is called, The Thousand Year Reign of Christ.
If we were to begin on a journey of eternal life, wouldn’t the end of a thousand years, seem to be the “near future”? Personally, when believing this lie, I dreaded the time when the supposed paradisaic “thousand year reign of Christ”, would end. I questioned my ability to withstand Satan’s unknown attack. I thought, wouldn’t he use deception to disguise it; otherwise, how would he mislead so many? Would I be among those who would survive his onslaught? Certainly, Satan’s well-constructed trap using “ministers of light” wouldn’t be built overnight. How long would the world be plunged back into darkness before he was destroyed? 2 Cor 11:13-15; 6:14; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:1,4
Scripture doesn’t contradict itself. The “NEW HEAVENS” AND “new earth” where “righteousness is to dwell” signifies the sealing of the Bride of Christ, coming down from heaven as a “new creation” to serve God, Christ and mankind. This is an eternal PROMISE, not to be interrupted with evil creeping back into the world. 2 Pet 3:10-13
(Rom 8:11; Heb 12:22,23; Rev 21:5,9; 3:12; 22:17)“Because God wanted to show his UNCHANGEABLE PURPOSE even more clearly to the heirs of the promise, he guaranteed it with an oath so that through two unchangeable things, in which it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to seize the hope set before us.” Heb 6:17,18
Watchtower also calls this peaceful, idyllic paradise of a “Thousand Years” - “Judgment day”, saying, individuals will be judged during that time as worthy for God’s eternal Kingdom. It is taught that after a thousand years, Satan is then released to mislead a perfect humankind before being destroyed. Would his destruction be considered another “Great Day of God the Almighty”, when Satan is totally destroyed?
Are there two Armageddons?
Watchtower’s teaching on the “Thousand Year Reign of Christ” is a lie. This paradise concept is like a recording of pristine heavenly music only to be interrupted by a gouge on the disc, a slice in the tape; the needle scraping over the vinyl.
Judgment Day began when Jesus came to earth.
“NOW is the judgment of this world. NOW the ruler of this world will be cast out.” John 12:31
Judgment day is not one under righteous conditions, completely free of Satan’s influence. What would be the basis of judgment if only God’s Kingdom ruled? 1 John 5:19 Yet, the Watchtower deceitfully explains how it will be a “happy time” by saying, “you can find comfort in the fact that Judgment Day is a loving arrangement that will bring great blessings to the human family—including those who have died.” g 1/10
Jesus said,
“I CAME INTO THIS WORLD FOR JUDGEMENT…
…that those who don’t see may see; and that those who see may become blind.” John 9:39“Therefore, SINCE CHRIST SUFFERED FOR US IN THE FLESH…
…arm yourselves also with the same mind; for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin; that you no longer should live the rest of your time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. FOR WE HAVE SPENT ENOUGH OF OUR PAST TIME doing the desire of the Gentiles, and having walked in lewdness, lusts, drunken binges, orgies, carousings, and abominable idolatries. They think it is strange that you don’t run with them into the same excess of riot, blaspheming: WHO WILL GIVE ACCOUNT TO HIM WHO IS READY TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD. For to this end the Good News was preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed as men in the flesh, but live as to God in the spirit.
BUT THE END OF ALL THINGS IS NEAR.” 1 Pet 4:1-7a
“GOD HAS RAISED THIS JESUS…
…we are all witnesses of this. Therefore, SINCE HE HAS BEEN EXALTED TO THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD and has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit, he has poured out what you both see and hear. For it was not David who ascended into the heavens, but he himself says:
The Lord declared to my Lord,
‘SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND
UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOTSTOOL.'
“THEREFORE let all the house of Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” Acts 2:32-36FOR HE MUST REIGN UNTIL HE PUTS ALL HIS ENEMIES UNDER HIS FEET.
The last enemy to be abolished is death. For God has put everything under his feet.” 1 Cor 15:25-27a“THEN COMES THE END…
…when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he…
…ABOLISHES ALL RULE AND ALL AUTHORITY AND POWER.” 1 Cor 15:24
I hope it is clear that Jesus’ Thousand Year Kingdom began in the first century, not after Armageddon. Knowing not only what it means when Satan is “abyssed” for a symbolic thousand years, but also the deception he has already fabricated to mislead God’s people once “unchained”, will help us decipher when the Christ’s Thousand Year Kingdom ended.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/…PEARL DOXSEY:
"The final judgment and sentencing of Satan and the demons, occurs "on the Great Day of God the Almighty" (Jude1:6; 2Pet.3:7; 2:9;Job 21:30,17,20; Rev.14:10; 20:10,14,15). This "Great Day" is the same period that is referred to, as Armageddon. Rev.16:14,16 reads;
"They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty. Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon."
Can you see that Satan and the demons are free to "perform signs", using them to "mislead the nations" into war with God and the woman's seed? (Rev.12:17; 20:7,8,9,10). They are no longer chained in the abyss. They, along with Satan's Gentile forces, have been unleashed against the woman's seed (Rev.9:1,2,3,5,10; 13:1,2,4,7). What seems reasonable to you?....
That the cataclysms of our modern world are a result of God's Kingdom being born...
or, the result of Satan's release from the abyss?
Which results in the Great Tribulation?
Satan was restrained by the conquering Christ, in the first century.
(John16:33; 14:30; Luke10:17,18,19; Rev.20:1,2,3; Eph.1:19,20,21)
The WT has taught that Christ's Thousand Year Kingdom and Satan's being chained in the abyss, occurs after Armageddon. They teach that Satan's judgment and destruction come a literal thousand years after that.
Satan and the demons are performing these misleading signs, right now (Rev.16:14,16), through the false prophet and it's Beast Organization. They are presently gathering their forces for The Battle of demonic deception against divine truth; after which, they are destroyed!
These lying doctrines of the WT are strongly entrenched, but must be overturned if we are to accurately perceive where we presently are in the stream of time (2Cor.10:3,4,5).
Christ began ruling at God's right hand in the first century. That symbolic "Thousand Year Kingdom" ends when Wormwood releases Satan and his forces (Rev.8:10,11; 9:1,11) from the abyss. The result, is Satan's "short period of time" (Rev.12:12).
"But after these things he must be released for a little while." (Rev.20:3 C).
He uses that short time to wage war against Christ and the "woman's seed" (Rev.12:17), [the "camp of the holy ones" (Rev.20:9)] in the Battle of Armageddon. This Battle polarizes and seals all the remaining seed, finishing the harvest (Rev.14:14,15,16).
As long as Satan is able to dominate the world and those deceived (2Cor.4:4; 1John5:19), he is in a symbolic "heaven" (Eph.6:12). He can occupy that position, even while his power to deceive the "sons of light" is "chained" within the realm of his dark, deep "waters" of the deceptive abyss. (Prov.4:19; John12:35; 1Thess.5:4,5,6,7,8,9; Rev.2:24)
When he is "released", none are protected. All called ones are deceived through their subjection to the "man of lawlessness"/"wild beast"/Gentiles (Rev.13:7; 2Thess.2:4; 1Cor.3:16; Dan.11:36; 7:25; Rev.11:2; Dan.8:11,14) until Michael "stands up" in behalf of his people. (Dan.12:1; Rev.3:5; 1Pet.2:10,9) (Gen.3:15; Rev.12:17,7,11; 17:14; 19:11,14,8; 6:9,11; Mark8:35)Pearl Doxsey 4 woman in the wilderness
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"What kind of Cosmetics can you use if you are TWO FACED?"
Any “Jezebel” would know. 2 Kings 9:30,32,33,35,36; Micah 3:5; Rev 2:20; 13:11; Ezek 23:35,37-41,45,29,30; Rev 17:1,2,6,12,16,17
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On 10/11/2017 at 1:40 PM, Shiwiii said:
This also pulls into question the idea of earthly calling vs heavenly calling, but I'll wait for your response to dig deeper.
Hi Shiwiii, I'm getting to it. I want to make my response as clear as possible. Thanks for your patience.
- Gnosis Pithos and Srecko Sostar
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18 hours ago, Witness said:
Watchtower is determined to get blood out of a turnip.
Stephen Lett – Annual meeting 2017
"Esau our third example, knew the history of Satan and Adam and Eve but did he learn from them? No, he too lacked appreciation for sacred things. Adam and Eve lacked the appreciation for sacred things. Esau was Isaac’s first-born son and in Bible times this had great value, but he thought only of his immediate physical cravings. Gen 25:32 says he became very hungry and cried out, “I am about to die.” Was he really? Shouldn’t he have not endured a little bit longer, rather than sell his birthright? Now, pretty quick he realized his mistake. He stole something with real value, for what? I mean what would he have received? Some bread and lentil stew. Apparently the stew didn’t even have any meat in it.
We Bethelites, we can get bread, lentils AND meat for free in the Bethel pantry.
"Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness—without it no one will see the Lord. Make sure that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no root of bitterness springs up, causing trouble and defiling many. Rev 8:11
And make sure that there isn’t any immoral or irreverent person like Esau, who sold his birthright in exchange for a single meal. (Luke 4:5-7 ) For you know that later, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, even though he sought it with tears, because he didn’t find any opportunity for repentance. " Heb 12:14-17
Matt 7:21-23
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27 minutes ago, Anna said:
The "need for money" makes common sense. It made common sense to Paul, and it makes common sense to people who have...well ummm....common sense, and want to eat and pay the bills. I have no idea how you think things are paid for. Long gone are the days where I gave you flower in exchange for a chicken....
Russell said, Beware of "organization." It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours." Wt. 9/15/1895 pg 216
Rutherford: “Religion is a snare and a racket” 1939Wt 1953 3/1 p. 143 “Ask yourself now, Did Christ Jesus, who set our example and told us to follow his example to gain life, join any church organization in his day? No, God does not require us to do that; but he requires us to worship him... We have the Bible to show us the right way. Certainly it is not necessary for a person to become a member of a church to gain everlasting life."
"Jehovah’s visible organization can use you, but can get along without you too. But you cannot get along without it. Fruitless ones are eventually pruned off and never missed as new ones are grafted in. Pruned-off branches soon wither and die, being cut off from the circulating, life-giving sap." Watchtower 1950 Jan 15 p.26
"Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation" - Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.212
WHO IS RIGHT? WHICH WATCHTOWER LEADER IS SHOWING COMMON SENSE?
Beasts need to eat; symbolic “Beasts” suck the life blood out of those who follow their hypocritical teachings. Rev chapter 13.
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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:
Even @Witness, who knows the Bible better than anyone in the whole wide world, especially the Governing Body, and who cannot pour herself a bowl of Cheerios without citing five scriptures to justify it, misses this most obvious point in the world - collections in a congregation have full scriptural backing.
Since you mention it, I donÂ’t start my morning with Cheerios, but with GodÂ’s Word.Â
 Seriously.Â
“Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.” Isa 55:1,2 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.” John 6:35
He also said, “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.” Luke 12:1Â
With “leaven”, the GB is telling you that the organizationÂ’s need for money comes directly from scripture.Â
"Then they understood that he had not told them to beware of the leaven in bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Matt 16:12
Â
I am only beginning to know the Bible, better than I had in the past.   Rev 3:20; 19:9
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12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
What? Is he trying to pretend God needs it? Why does God need our money
In your use of sarcasm, you actually speak truth.
“God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.” Acts 17:24,25
Weigh these scriptures against the broadcast which calls an assembly hall, “Jehovah’s house”. Blasphemy.
 Seriously.Â
Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?
in Topics
Posted
I don’t know what the person you mention thought he would accomplish by going back into the organization, or even how he thought he could get reinstated if not through some sort of deception. Jesus predicted we would be “thrown out of the synagogues/”congregations” by those who believe they are serving God in doing so. Acts 9:20; 2 Cor 4:5; 1 Cor 1:22,23; Matt 10:17,18; John 16:2; Rev 13:15,16
During an anointing the “token” of holy Spirit is put into one’s heart, which allows them to see truth. 2 Cor 1:21,22 1 Cor 13:9,10 Individually; yet, as a collective Body, Holy Spirit avails knowledge more abundantly through all. 2 Cor 3:4,5; 1 Cor 6:19; 12:22 We will see this in completeness when the gathering of the Bride/the Temple is finished. It cannot be comprehend it in the organization, since they are told to remain separate from one another, not even to study the Bible together. Surely, that should make one question why this is so, especially since an elder body works together freely. God’s anointed ones are “scattered” in this way deliberately by Satan, since he knows the power of the holy ones; he knows that it is through their connection with Christ, that he will be destroyed. Rev 12:7-9 Everything he can do to keep them apart, quiet and in submission to the GB and elders, buys him time.
But why the organization.
During this time of the end, Satan must make the deflecting offer from following Christ completely (not through a person or an organization John 4:21-24) as enticing as possible, well-cloaked as “truth”, “different” than any deceitful tactic he has ever used against God’s people. Dan 7:23; 2 Pet 2:1-3 He baits with basic pure truth, which the organization initially offers. Rev 8:10,11 God allows it; he allows Satan to do this, but he has given us its identity in Revelation and through many scriptures, if we seek out its understanding. The prophetic words of Jesus, the earlier prophets, and the apostles can help discern the trap. The organization, as beautiful and as enticing as it may seem, is very close to bringing the power of the holy ones to nothing. Dan 12:7 It has been a gradual process that is reaching a climax. The anointed remnant faces the most powerful deceitful foe to come upon any anointed one since Christ; because from them, the remaining ‘living stones’ of the Temple will be set in place as the capstone. Zech 4:7,6; 1 Cor 1:28,29 The Kingdom arrives once that is accomplished. Their test is unique as they face the fourth beast of Daniel and Revelation’s two Beasts.
God never creates the deception; Satan does. God never does the destroying, it is all from Satan and those who sell off their “inheritance”. 1 Pet 5:8; 2 Cor 2:11; Rev 12:7,15, 17; 1 Tim 4:1; Matt 24:4,5; 24,25; Heb 12:14-16
While the Watchtower focuses on the world’s literal signs as fulfillment of the end, very few notice the symbolic signs that are affecting God’s authentic priesthood. Very few see that the “Gentile” elder body should not “represent” the “royal priesthood”. Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3; Ezek 44:6-9 Very few can discern that the individual sacrifices of praise in various gifts and forms of the anointed ones, have been extinguished by a “wicked slave” and its own “Body of elders”; because what the physical eye takes in, is so much grander in scope than the symbolic spiritual signs. Matt 16:2,3 This is Satan’s excelling accomplishment, to create the delusion using his worldly power; because as he said to Christ, all that is in the world “has been delivered to me”. Luke 4:6,7 He has produced a successful counterfeit, bringing literal meaning to Jesus’ words in Matt 24, including a physical earthly organization called “Zion”.
Jesus’ own tests and trials, which were put on him by Satan, were conquered through his obedience to God, resulting in his perfect holiness. All authority, both in heaven and on earth, has now been given to him. Matt 28:18 This ignites the battle between Christ and his Truth, Satan and his lies. His priests (Is1 a 43:10; Pet 2:5,9,10) must imitate his obedience in order to also receive their “kingly” authority. They must become just like Christ, worthy to be his Bride, and to see God. They must sacrifice their lives under the “New Covenant” promise of life, bringing life to the rest of God’s children through the Kingdom covenant. Rev 12:11 Through the Wt’s condemnation that one who speaks in Jesus’ name is considered spiritually “dead”, the anointed and many others, lose their “life” they had previously known in the organization, to gain eternal life in Christ. Heb 13:10-16; John 15:20,21; Luke 9:24; 17:33
Heb 5:8,9 – “though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered. 9 Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation”
Heb 4:15 - For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way as we are, yet without sin.
Phil 2:8 “he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death -- even to death on a cross.”
Although we know how the apostles suffered for their steadfast faith, never have we seen any anointed leader in the organization suffer as Christ did. It should make one sit up and take notice. They appear to be immune from suffering for Christ’s sake; the reason is clear through the scriptures. Rev 13:11,12; 2 Cor 11:12-15
The organization teaches it is the only way to achieve spiritual security, which produces a state of sleepiness among the “virgins”, just one of Jesus’ parables that can be applied to the climate the anointed and JWs live under in the organization. Matt 25:6-13; 22:8-10
“James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ: To the twelve tribes dispersed abroad. Greetings. 2 Consider it a great joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you experience various trials, because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its full effect, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.
We are all having our faith tested, we are all being judged for our desire to either follow a delusion or the pureness of God’s Word in Christ. To reach the latter, we turn completely toward God during the end times by walking away from symbolic “Babylon”, the covenant/promise of death. Isa 28:1-22
2 Thess Chapter 2:
Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Christ had come. (“God’s Kingdom Rules” – 1914)
Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22 (“Representing the royal priesthood” are the elders, “standing in the “holy place” – Matt 24:15; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16)
Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming; (John 20:22; Rev 11:1-3,6,7,18) even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (Rev 13:13) and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn’t receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Because of this, God sends (Luke 22:31) them a working of error, that they should believe a lie; that they all might be judged who didn’t believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The Watchtower says that Armageddon is looming, giving their interpretation of the Beasts in Revelation. Yet, nothing in that realm of vision has attacked the “holy ones”/saints” or surrounded them, except the Watchtower. They twist the abomination of Matt 24:15 to be “a” holy place in Christendom. The literal fulfillment of this scripture concerned Jerusalem. Today, it is spiritual “Jerusalem” that is under attack. Rom 2:28,29
It is all there, to the extreme.
Delusion – that God says we need an earthly organization even though his Son said nowhere physically are we to worship, except in spirit and truth. John 4:24; Rev 13:11,12,14
False prophesy – too many to mention.
False directives – the GB has already admitted to this.
Abusive and lying leadership – “But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers (Elder Body) of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great (GB) exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” Matt 20:25-28