Witness

1 hour ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Then, how does this sentiment not be in direct contradiction to your other proposed view? When you ask a modern day Bible Student about doctoral matters, what do you think their response would be if NOT this.

Was the Jehovah’s Witnesses doctrine “founded by Charles Taze Russell”?

 

 

 

 

Absolutely not! The doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is mostly based on the teaching of Joseph Rutherford, not Charles Taze Russell. There are some things that Russell and JWs have in common, such as the rejection of the non-Biblical inherent immortal soul and trinitarian dogma of men, but outside of this, the JW doctrine is almost the opposite of what Russell taught and believed.

 

 

 

 

 

Are the “Studies in the Scriptures” the “the basis of the Jehovah Witness theology”?

 

 

 

 

Since the Jehovah’s Witnesses reject most of what is in the Studies in the Scriptures, it is certainly not true that the basis of the JW theology is from those studies. JW theology rejects the very central doctrine related to atonement that is presented in the Studies, that is the “ransom for all,” and have replaced that doctrine with one that basically says, “join us, or else be eternally destroyed.” The latter was never taught by Russell, but the former — the ransom for all — was the central basis of Russell’s ministry.

 

 

So, once again, how does this not reflect on your personal understanding of the Watchtower?

 

1914 began with Russel, traveled through the teachings of Rutherford and is still taught today, despite changing doctrine. 

Russel and Rutherford are touted as blessed by God with truth.  (God’s Kingdom Rules)  Their teachings set the foundation of the organization. Matt 7:22-26   How can you change or excuse – “The Finished Mystery”, “Studies in the Scriptures” which are actually listed (but not able to link) on the web site?

Does it  change my feeling of the Watchtower that doctrine has changed since then?  No.  It is an operation of error (2 Thess 2:1-12) And an abomination of desolation – a false priesthood rules over the genuine chosen priesthood – a “disgusting thing standing in the holy place”  Matt 24:15 ; Dan 8:11  ( 1 Cor 3:16; 6:17,19,20; Eph 2:22; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10)

The organization is the “image” of the Beast of Revelation that demands loyalty and obedience – an idol.  Rev 13:15-18

26 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

You do realize, changes were made in 1931 to what witnesses of today understand as their history, or are you suggesting witnesses are following the same doctrine proposed prior to 1931?

You are saying they have covered up much of their history?  If that is the case, I agree. 

Watchtower doctrine is ever changing.  ‘False’ prophesy is still an integral part of the organization. 

1975

1914 is an ongoing false doctrine that has necessitated the revision of another false doctrine – “this generation”.

So many doctrines; for instance, the “faithful and discreet slave” has been revised how many times?

Is any of this "fruitful" teaching, fruit that will last?  John 15:16

The consistent “doctrine” is that an organization/corporation is earthly Zion.  This is truly blasphemy. 

15 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

And when scripture tells us to keep on the watch Matthew 24:42, and stay awake Matthew 26:41-43, and be alert. We should ignore these scriptures because some, have failed to understand scripture?

 

This teaching alone is a manifestation, and indicative of a False Prophet.

 

 

 

 

Be Ready for His Coming

 

 

 

 

Matthew 24:42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But [af]be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be [ag]broken into. 44 For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

 

 

In harmony with Matt 24:422 -    Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.  1 Thess 5:1-3

Jehovah’s people enjoy a special environment of peace in the earthly part of his organization.  Wt 15/7/15

Our spiritual heritage can also infuse in us a deep sense of spiritual security that can be enjoyed only within Jehovah’s organization.  w05 2/15 pp. 17-22

Who are the awake ones, those whose leaders convince the sheep they have found peace and security in “what their fingers have made”, based on a time and seasons?  Isa 2:8; 2 Thess 2:1,2

One sign of a false prophet is double-speak.  James 4:8; Jer 23:16

16 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

The pyramid calculations that were given by "Bible Students" or "Witness". Are you suggesting "witnesses" are bible students now?

True "witnesses" chosen by God are outlined in Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; John 2:19-21; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22   The majority happen to be in the Watchtower.  

Are you suggesting CT Russel and Studies in the Scriptures are not part of Watchtower's history?  

39 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

Witness:

What part of my post did you NOT understand?

From your response .... apparently NONE of it!

 

Well James, I understood all of it.  And you did say, “I have a long list of REAL concerns, I CAN do something about.

..based on HARD EVIDENCE.

Remember EVIDENCE?”

Which tells me, you would reject it all without evidence.  My intention was to show you “hard evidence” .

 Is this how you came into the organization?  On hard evidence?

“AND ... since there is absolutely NOTHING I can do to change reality “

What reality are you speaking of? 

You are in control of your own spiritual reality. 

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

During the "Middle Ages" these types of discussions consumed people for HUNDREDS of years ... and the synopsis was the phrase "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

I try to keep my life simple, and since no one can prove that invisible things that SUPPOSEDLY happened a hundred or so years ago, using "evidence" that can be interpreted a hundred different ways ... and all with internal reasoning that makes sense to the proponents, and, I ...having ALSO been consumed with such things earlier in my life ... have come to the conclusion that it is ALL a complete and utter waste of my time,.

Soon enough ... too soon, perhaps ... we will ALL KNOW !!!

AND ... since there is absolutely NOTHING I can do to change reality ... whatever it is ... to quote Rhett Butler ...

 "Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn!"

I have a long list of REAL concerns, I CAN do something about.

..based on HARD EVIDENCE.

Remember EVIDENCE?

 

Evidence of what?  That 1914 is a pyramid scheme?  You know, Studies in the Scriptures; both the original and revised version. (The calculations were changed after 1914)

That the organization does not preach the authentic “good news”? You are seeking a sign?  Didn’t the Pharisees request a sign? ?   You have the scriptures. 

 “Then He told the disciples: “The days are coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you won’t see it.  They will say to you, ‘Look there!’ or ‘Look here!’ Don’t follow or run after them. For as the lightning flashes from horizon to horizon and lights up the sky, so the Son of Man will be in His day.”  Luke 17:22-24

The Watchtower gives a physical manifestation as evidence of truth; yet Jesus tells us, don’t run after them.  Matt 24:1,2; 6:19; Rev 3:17-19; Luke 12:18-20; 16:2,14; Prov 13:22; 10:2

  According to scripture, lightening is true knowledge coming from Christ’s message written down for us then, and within the symbolic book of Revelation.  (sent to his “servants”, the holy ones) Matt.24:27; Eze.1:14,4-5; Rev.4:8; Luke 17:24; Ps.19:4; Isa.58:1;Rev.8:6

There are genuine faithful “priests” present at the time of the end, as well as genuine fallen “priests” used by Satan to mislead each ‘holy one’.  Luke 22:31; Rev 13:11-18

This is what Revelation is about; the operation of error and a “powerful delusion” set up to deceive. 2 Thess 2:1-12  When one wakes up to this lie, one’s plight is the same plight Jesus suffered. 

“Then they will hand you over for persecution, and they will kill you. (John 16:2) You will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 Then many will take offense, betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be delivered. 14 This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world[d] as a testimony to all nations. And then the end will come.

The faithful genuine priests are those who have suffered as their Master, Christ, for giving testimony to his name.  THEY are the authentic “witnesses” of Isa 43:10, (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17)  who are “killed” by the Beast of Rev 13:15: Rev 6:11; Rev 12:11 

Read about Revelation’s “Beasts”, one being a false prophet/harlot who directs/rides the other.  This  beast projects and “image” (the organization as “the truth”) that must be “worshiped” (given loyalty to).  In this beast, the holy ones – God’s anointed people as well as their brethren are found – “And he was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. He was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation.  Rev 17:13

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It 'plagues' non-JWs even more, as they have made no progress whatsoever in united declaring the kingdom good news.

God, who is good, would never condone a lie.  Nor Jesus.  Jer 9:3,5; Jer 23:26; Ezek 13:19; Hab 2:18   Only men tolerate lies and can call them “good”. 

   When you preach the “good news of God’s Kingdom” you are essentially teaching the lie of 1914, which is the foundation of the organization; thus the organization is the lie that you “serve”.  Rom 1:25; Rev 2:9

km 10/14 p. 2 -  “ Conclude by reading Revelation 12:10, 12 and inviting the audience to comment on how our knowing that the Kingdom began ruling in 1914 motivates us to preach the good news with urgency.

Non JWs accept the organization for what it is, a pyramid scheme in more ways than one.

The “good news” is preached to “Israel”, God’s chosen ones, from all nations, tribes and tongues – including their brethren.  Matt 10:23  The Insight Book will tell you just who is spiritual Israel.  

You would be amazed at what is happening beyond your physical scope of sight. Zech 4:6

It is the “good news” that spiritual Israel – “Jacob” -  has been redeemed, purified, if they leave the lie behind.  Isa 44:21-22; Rev 18:4-8

“These are the ones not defiled with women (spiritual harlotry), for they have kept their virginity. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They were redeemed from the human race as the firstfruits for God and the Lamb. ⁵ No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.”  Rev 14:4,5

10 hours ago, Gnosis Pithos said:

What I see is NOT that you have proven anything relating to the understanding of 1914, but rather give a lengthy opinion on why your personal belief in 1914 is in error in your mind.

I will also accept that you have contrived a clever and twisted defense to that end.

1914 is a “demonic expression” hatched from the mouth of CT Russel, and his calculations of the pyramids.  He said God told him it was the date of Armageddon.  Deut 18:20-22  When it failed, he changed his calculations.  As 1914 “grew”, it was necessary to give new meaning to “this generation” – many times over.  It now ‘plagues’ each JW as the Watchtower hangs on relentlessly to a date that has no foundation in scripture.  Rev 16:13,14

There are those who will love the clever and twisted lie originating from the mouth of Satan to fool God’s people.   2 Thess 2:9-12  Once a falsehood, always a falsehood. 

23 hours ago, Gnosis Pithos said:

PROVE 1914 IS WRONG!!!

It can be proven wrong very easily.

The Wt. teaches that God’s Kingdom, arriving in 1914 in the heavens, was the beginning of the signs of “pains of distress”, their choice of translation.  Certainly, the world clearly shows distress evident in the wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes. 

The Greek word for Wt.’s use of “pains of distress” (ōdin) means pains related to child birth – labor pains.

This truth is found in Wt’s Greek Interlinear, reading: “All but these (things) beginning of pangs of birth”.  Why isn’t it read this way when translating the scripture on the same page? The Wt would be held responsible in explaining how the birth of God’s Kingdom supposedly arrives before birth pains.   “The Kingdom is Born in heaven”, yet it is then followed by birth pains? (kr chapter 2)

From “What Does the Bible Teach?” - “Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact THAT 1914 INDEED MARKED THE BIRTH OF GOD’S HEAVENLY KINGDOM and the BEGINNING of “the last days” (labor pains)  of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5. 

Clever, and twisted. 

Concerning looking into Satan’s world for signs of the coming Kingdom, it isn’t the world that is in labor, it is the promised New Covenant that gives “birth” to God’s Kingdom and not until Christ’s Kingdom heirs are complete in number. 

But the Watchtower says,

“Let your Kingdom come”: God’s Kingdom came in 1914 when Jesus was made King in heaven. God’s Kingdom will also come in the future when Jesus destroys the wicked”.  ws14 1/15 pp. 26-31

“Therefore, you should pray like this:

Our Father in heaven,
Your name be honored as holy.
 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
 Give us today our daily bread.
 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
 And do not bring us into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power
and the glory forever. Amen.  Matt 6:9-13

Obviously, God’s Kingdom has not come in any form, as Satan is still here.  Christ began ruling as King upon his ascension into heaven.  1 Cor 15:22-26

Then Jesus replied to them: “Watch out that no one deceives you.  For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many.

“The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern day Governing Body, they are in fact following their leader, Christ. “  9/15/2010 pg. 23

 ^“You are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, because these things must take place, but the end is not yet.”

These “wars” against kings involves the anointed ones – who will either be sealed in “heaven” through their faithfulness to one Master, Christ…or Satan, who wins over God’s chosen ones with the offer of power, prestige and riches and a false sense of “peace and security” – the organization.   Rev 5:10; Heb 12:22; Eph 2:20-22

And in 1 Thess 5:3, the “labor pains” are again mentioned.  God’s Kingdom will not arrive until the full number of Christ’s heirs are with him; and the harvest is complete.  Rev 21:3

 Luke 22:31; Eph 6:12-14; John 16:2; Mark 13:13; Rev.2:9,10,13,17,7,24,26,28; 6:9,11; 3:5,9,12,21,22)

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“The salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God
and the authority of His Messiah
have now come,
because the accuser of our brothers
has been thrown out:
the one who accuses them
before our God day and night.

They conquered him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony,
for they did not love their lives
in the face of death.”  Rev 12:10,11

The full number of sealed, faithful priestly kings must conquer Satan's deceit before they are sealed.  Christ is waiting for this to happen before God’s Kingdom arrives.

“Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when He abolishes all rule and all authority and power.”  (1 Cor 15:23-26)

It is the war is between truth and lies.   Satan is in control of the world, he can easily create a counterfeit fulfillment of the coming Kingdom of God, which is a Kingdom not emerging from corruption and filth, but is one of purity.  Job 14:4  In fact, up his sleeve are many counterfeits, counter-fulfillments. 

 ^“For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.”

Gen 3:15; 1 Cor 1:18,19; Rev.12:7; 16:13-16; 17:14; 19:11,14;John16:2; 8:44; 2Cor.11:12-14,15,2-4,20; Gal.5:1; 2Tim.3:13; Jer.23:28,31,32

 All these events are the beginning of birth pains. Gal.4:26; Rev.12:1,2; Eph.2:6; Gal.4:19

The famine and pestilences are the result of thirst for God’s truth in Christ and the ultimate result. I see the “thirst” here as so many struggle over the validity of 1914.  Rev.18:8; Isa.5:13; Hosea4:6; Isa.65:13,17; Rev.6:6; Matt.25:8

Symbolic earthquakes are evident in the scriptures leading up to God’s Kingdom.  Mark13:25; Jer.49:21,22,24; Heb.12:27; Rev 6:12

Rev.13:11,14; Rev.19:20; 13:6,8; Amos 8:11

All of Jesus’ signs leading to the coming of God’s Kingdom primarily involve those to be Christ’s heirs and Bride, yet it also includes every JW who has been exposed to lies by fallen anointed ones, the “firstfruits” of Abraham’s seed (stars, trees).  Rev 6:12-14;8:11; Gen 26:4; 1 Cor 15:23; Matt 12:33

4 hours ago, bruceq said:

(Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. 

I don’t think you realize what Phil 4:8 is telling you.  What is of serious concern, righteous, chaste, lovable, well-spoken of, virtuous and praise-worthy  to God, appears to be off the table; that being,  God’s justice and righteousness.  ? 

 

That this is a rebellious people,
Lying children,
Children who will not hear the law of the Lord;
^ Who say to the seers, “Do not see,”
And to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us right things;
Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits.
^1 Get out of the way,
Turn aside from the path,
Cause the Holy One of Israel
To cease from before us.”  Isa 30:9,10

 

1 hour ago, bruceq said:

Only 50 Translations. lol try +200 Translations - http://www.ebay.com/gds/Collecting-Watchtower-Research-Books-/10000000188341192/g.html

(Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. 

Wonderful ? I see numbers make a big impression on you.  Apparently truth may not.  

How many translations does it take to understand what has happened to God’s Temple?  One.

KJV Ezek 44:8,9 --

8 “In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.

9 “And ye have not kept the charge – “guard, charge, function, obligation, service, watch”

of mine holy things - apartness, holiness, sacredness, separateness, sanctuary, of God, a sacred place or thing

 but ye have set keepers - to keep, guard, observe, give heed

of my charge - charge, keep, or to be kept, office, ordinace, guard, charge, function, obligation, service, watch

in my sanctuary  - sacred place, sanctuary, holy place, of the temple

for yourselves

 Exactly what is happening in the Watchtower through the elder body.

Those who are to teach and provide spiritual sacrifices are the anointed ones.  I’ve given you the scriptures.  They are the “circumcision” as well as part of God’s Temple.  Rom 2:29; Col 2:11; 1 Cor 3:16,17  To allow others to act as priests in their place transgresses God's sanctuary.  There's two sides of this abomination.  As God's sanctuary, foreigners are trampling it.  As God's priests, others have taken their place.  

Now, read the NWT. It pales in comparison, it lacks power and understanding of the abomination existing in God’s Temple. 

 

 

59 minutes ago, bruceq said:

You quoted from a religious website that is number 1,061 in ranking. I am sure you can do better.

Test:

 

(Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. 

You are looking at the rating of a site with at least 50 translations of the bible?  That is stopping you from reading scripture?    Use your own Bible, the one that Russia has banned.  If your eyes are open to the trampling of God's people, you will see it in whatever Bible you choose to read.  

The elder body "trample" God's anointed ones - they "walk all over" God's Temple priesthood, by expecting obedience, and setting up a false priesthood.  When you discern this, you are to flee.  Matt 24:14,15

NWT -  "And I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one speaking: “How long will the vision of the constant feature* and of the transgression causing desolation continue,+ to make both the holy place and the army things to trample on?” 14  So he said to me: “Until 2,300 evenings and mornings; and the holy place will certainly be restored to its right condition.”  Dan 8:13,14

 

 

“Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 

1914

“Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.  He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” 2 Thess 2:1-4

“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?”  Matt 24:45

Matt 25:19-30

"It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. ⁴⁷ Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. ⁴⁸ But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ (1914, and those previous ) ⁴⁹ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. ⁵⁰ The master of that servant will come on a day when he does NOT expect him and at an hour he is NOT aware of. ⁵¹ He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."  Matt 24:46-51

The wicked servant “beats” his fellow servants with help from the man of lawlessness, who has set himself in and over God’s holy Temple, the anointed servants.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 11:2  The man of lawlessness comprises those who “represent” God’s anointed priesthood, the elder body.

Wt. 02/8/1 “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth.”

“It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place  (God's Temple) and those who live in heaven. ⁷ It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.”   Rev 13:6,7

“He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.  Dan 7:25

“When we loyally obey the elders and other brothers appointed by “the faithful and discreet slave,” we show that we want to help Christ’s brothers.”  Wt 15/3/15

Should God’s anointed priesthood obey a false priesthood?  Should ANYONE obey someone God has not appointed to carry out His decrees?  Lev 10:1; Deut 24:8; Mal 2:7; Ezek 44:7,9 ;Lam 1:10; Jer 51:51; Matt 24:15,16; Luke 21:24; Acts 21:28; Rev 11:2  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Lev+10%3A1%3B+Deut+24%3A8%3B+Mal+2%3A7%3B+Ezek+44%3A7%2C9+%3BLam+1%3A10%3B+Jer+51%3A51%3B+Matt+24%3A15%2C16%3B+Luke+21%3A24%3B+Acts+21%3A28%3B+Rev+11%3A2&version=NIV

 ^“And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.”  2 Thess 2:8

 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. ²⁷ Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’ Dan 7:25-27

“He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.”  Acts 1:7

Obviously, God’s Word in the matter carries little or no weight in relationship to man’s fabrications taught as law in the organization. 

I have not read this whole stream; but yes, Stephen prayed/spoke to Jesus, the apostle Paul prayed/spoke to Jesus.  John spoke in vision to Jesus.  Are we not able to approach Christ when others have?  I am not a trinitarian, but I pray to Christ.  Early on in the Watchtower, Jesus was worshiped and prayed to directly, until the 1950’s.  (Sorry if someone has already brought this out).

Watchtower Kingdom Interlinear Greek Scriptures, word for word:

John 14:13 "and what likely you should ask in the name of me this I will do, in order that might be glorified the Father in the Son."

Vs 14 – "if ever anything you should ask ME in the name of me this I shall do".

Of course the right column removed “ME” in translating. 

The question should be, why did the Watchtower stop allowing the sheep to speak to the Shepherd? No doubt because he has become a “stumbling block” to the spiritual “Jews”, the GB, and foolishness to the rest- spiritual “Gentiles”.     1 Cor 1:20-25

“Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep.  The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice."

 If a shepherd calls his sheep,  don't they normally bleat in response? If we were calling someone, wouldn't we expect to hear them answer us?  

"Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.  All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.  I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.  The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep."

John chapter 10.

You can't tell me that this descriptive relationship that Jesus has with his sheep is a one way conversation.  Even one's pet cat will answer its Master.   

Who would want to steal the sheep from Christ?  Satan and his human cohorts.  2 Cor 11:13-15

”May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope,  encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.” 2 Thess 2:16,17

Dare we wear a pin that says, Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life?  It's pretty simple, isn't it?   The apostles were in a "congregation" (not an organization), and clearly, their pledge - their dedication -  was to Christ and the Father.  

Peter said,  "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind (by YHWH) by which we must be saved.”  Acts 4:12

8 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"What, Me Worry?"

Why not make it public?  This is the "Arena of Ideas" ... even stupid ones.

Rather than take a field trip down Booger's Woods, why not clarify why B=A, but that A is NOT equal to B.

OOOoughah ... Pretzel Alert!

.

I am respecting admin's wishes.

35 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

A million words, presented to a guy that would chain-saw the elephant in his bath tub without discussion.

Put on your visualization hat, and explain to me what is going on in Revelation 1:1, in the first 11 or so words.

OBVIOUSLY GOD IS NOT JESUS ... says so there in black and white in EVERY English Translation, at least the 20 and more I quoted previously.

GOD gave the revelation to Jesus ... who until that happened, was IGNORANT of the revelation's contents ... THEN Jesus gave it to John.

Be a sport ... try to get around the simple, clear, unambiguous description of who is who, and who is NOT .. in Revelation 1:1 .... without fracturing the English language, or bending your mind into a pretzel.

Be a sport .... I will enjoy the gymnastics.

OH ... and When revelation describes Jesus sitting at the right hand of God, John was NOT suggesting proctology .. or having one sit on his OWN lap.

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Don't worry, JTR; I don't believe Jesus is God, God is Jesus, only that they are one in Spirit and purpose.  

I will send a link privately to an article that shows how the "two witnesses" and 7 congregations relate to the holy ones. Rev 1:1 - The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants (anointed) what must soon take place.

Following, are excerpts from the outline of the Sunday afternoon Convention talk entitled, "Keep In Expectation...It Will Not Be Late"

“Jesus foretold that true worshippers—his followers—would preach the good news of the Kingdom “in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations” (Mt 24:14) Think of how far the preaching work has come in the past century! [Cite recent figures] Should we take an extreme view of Jesus’ words “all the inhabited earth,” as if we must reach every individual on the planet with the Kingdom message before Jehovah will bring an end to the present system of things? Surely not; Jesus’ own words suggest that the preaching work will still be underway when the great tribulation begins [Read Matthew 10:23]”

While the Watchtower interprets Matt 24:14 as a preaching work carried out among the entire realm of mankind, their sited scripture, Matt 10:23, shows otherwise.

“When they persecute you in one town, escape to another. For I assure you: You will not have covered the towns of ISRAEL before the Son of Man comes.”

Who is “Israel” today? From the WT 14/11/15 –

“Spiritual Israel, or “the Israel of God”: The people whom Jehovah has chosen by means of holy spirit to become his nation. THEY ARE ALL ANOINTED. They do not come from any specific race or country on earth. Jehovah made a covenant with this new nation, and they replaced ancient Israel as his people”

We begin to see the connection of who the “inhabited earth” is, that must be preached to.

“This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world^[a] as a testimony to all nations. And then the end will come.”

The footnote for world says, “all inhabited earth”, which in Greek is oikoumenē.

“Oikou”( οἰκέω) –  from 3624 /oíkos,(which can refer to a lineage, a nation)

 "a house, dwelling, habitation" – properly, to make a home; living "at home" (i.e. comfortably) because it is one's residence; "to be at home."  (Strong’s #3611)

“Mene/meno” (μένω) - to stay, abide, remain (Strong’s #3306)

Can you see that the “earth” that is inhabited is the dwelling place of God – His chosen anointed nation, spiritual “Israel”, and who receive the end time message?  Can you see the futility of a world-wide preaching work that is not directed to spiritual “Israel”?

1 Cor 3:16;6:19; John 14:23; Rom 8:9; Eph 2:19https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Cor+3%3A16%3B6%3A19%3B+John+14%3A23%3B+Rom+8%3A9%3B+Eph+2%3A19&version=NIV

Why doesn’t the Watchtower realize that this preaching should be directed to the anointed ones?  They DO, but by using employed diversion tactics, the anointed and their brethren are left in the dark -  captive to ‘empty philosophy’ and a powerful charade.  Gen 3:15; 2 Cor 11:3,4; Col 2:8; Matt 7:15-20; Luke 21:24; Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:1-4;9-12; Rev 13:1-10  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen+3%3A15%3B+2+Cor+11%3A3%2C4%3B+Col+2%3A8%3B+Matt+7%3A15-20%3B+Luke+21%3A24%3B+Matt+24%3A15%3B+2+Thess+2%3A1-4%3B9-12%3B+Rev+13%3A1-10  &version=NIV

The outline continues:

“Should we conclude, though, that the day may yet be far off? HOW DO WE KNOW THAT IT WILL COME SOON? (18 min.) To answer that, let us consider evidence from three different categories of Bible prophecies about our times

 (1) Prophecies regarding the anointed Daniel chapter 12 says much regarding “the holy people,” Christ’s anointed followers (vs. 7)

  (a) They would “wake up . . . to everlasting life,” becoming spiritually revived despite opposition (vs. 2; dp 291 [1]10)

  (b) They would “shine . . . brightly . . . like the stars” and bring “many to righteousness” (vs. 3)

  (c) They would “rove about” in God’s Word, finding enlightenment (vs. 4)

  (d)They would undergo a “dashing to pieces” of their power, suggesting that they would be viciously attacked (vs. 7)

  (e) They would be “refined” and would “cleanse themselves” (vs. 10)

It makes me wonder how the speaker will spin this “attack” that appears to have happened in Watchtower’s history a long while ago (perhaps using a video?); while in the meantime the anointed ones suffer from the ‘attack’ of an Elder Body, the fourth Beast of Daniel’s prophesy.  Their power has diminished to a name only; as they “obey” the elders under the threat of disfellowshiping.  Dan 7:7,8,21,23,25;8:9-12; 23-25;11:21-24,31-35  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+7%3A7%2C8%2C21%2C23%2C25%3B8%3A9-12%3B+23-25%3B11%3A21-24%2C31-35 &version=NIV

The WT is well aware of the preaching that is being done to “Israel”, by the “two witnesses” of Revelation; thus they struggle to deflect the attention of this work, reminding JWs that Daniel’s prophesy in Chapter 12 as being fulfilled in the early 1900’s.    Rev 11:1-5  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+11%3A1-5&version=NIV

The outline:

“The anointed had begun to “rove about” in the pages of God’s Word before the last days began. Their spiritual enlightenment attracted many to the truth. Anointed Christians were attacked, but after that difficult period of refinement, they launched a global preaching campaign that has brought many to righteousness.”

A “difficult period of refinement” – from what?  Their own teachings have lead millions down a crooked, dark path of uninspired doctrine. The WT teaches that the refinement period happened from 1914 to 1919, when the “Temple” (God's priesthood) was inspected and found “free of the influence of Babylon the Great”. 

Please keep in mind, JWs, that the teachings beyond that time included 1925 as the date of Armageddon, that the Great Pyramid in Egypt was “an inanimate witness of the Lord, and its testimony speaks with great eloquence concerning the divine plan", and that “millions now living would never die”. 

Only by stepping away from the WT will the anointed and companions have the opportunity of being led to righteousness because of refinement from lies and idolatry to an organization.  Mal 3:1-3; Rev 3:18  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Mal+3%3A1-3%3B+Rev+3%3A18 &version=NIV

JWs, can you see that a “global preaching campaign” is a façade to keep God’s chosen nation and brethren locked in to an “operation of error”?  Therefore, your convention topic is on endurance; for you to persistently endure the organization and its false teachings, where spiritual enlightenment does NOT exist. 2 Cor 6:14 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+6%3A14&version=NIV

When reading or listening to Romans 10, notice that the same word, “oikoumenē”, “all inhabited earth” is used in Rom 10:18.

Also notice that in verse 9, this “good news” is preached by those who are “confessing” with their mouth Jesus as Lord…

“and believes in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved”.

 While the WT translates Rom 10:13 as, “For everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved”, clearly it is the name of Jesus that is signified here. 

Why? Israel knew who God was, and the early preaching work by the apostles was about Christ as salvation. Rom 10:14-15   Just as the majority were a hard-hearted people and refused to accept God’s Son as salvation, spiritual “Israel” and all in the Watchtower do the same.  They may speak his name, but give obedience to another master, the Body of Elders, and lift their eyes to an organization for salvation.  Matt 6:24; Rev 13:4; 9:20; Isa 46:5-13  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+6%3A24%3B+Rev+13%3A4%3B+9%3A20%3B+Isa+46%3A5-13&version=NIV

Rom 10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+10&version=NIV

40 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He spins it pretty convincingly, in my estimation.

Surely, that is too many.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some poor to crush and faces to grind,

I'm sorry, Witness. I just can't take it seriously. It's too snarky to suggest that therapy is in order but - c'mon!

I am truly sorry you cannot see they symbolic "trampling" of God's sanctuary - Christ's brothers.  Not even God's words are proof enough for you.

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We need wait no more. JWBroadcasting now reporting on increased attention worldwide as result of the ban and resulting publicity, people checking to see if jw. org is really extremist and finding it is not. Knowledge of this contribution to the worldwide ministry will fortify Russian brothers for some time to come.

Thank you, Witness, for adding to the letter count, and thus magnifying attention. They were all sunk to the bottom of the sea anyway, most likely. But the impression of the count is overwhelming. Just ask Guinness.

Of course it will be spun that the Russian event is viewed as a “witness to Jehovah”! Mark Sanderson said so!

 Forget what God’s decrees say!  We love the organization more than God’s decrees!  

We love everything about it, even IF we refuse to protect the innocent!  Even IF we refuse to see the anointed ones cornered with a heavy fist hanging over them ready to crush them completely!

Isa 30:1,2, 8-19, 20,21,22  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa+30%3A1%2C2%2C+8-19%2C+20%2C21%2C22&version=NKJV

We MUST support “Jehovah’s organization”!

If you stepped out of your comfort zone and read the many, many, many reports of extremism declared by those who have suffered from it, you would come back with a different story.  Maybe.  God’s decrees weigh little in the Watchtower, while the desire of the eyes weighs heavily.  After all, the internet cannot be trusted when stories don’t coincide with what you want to believe about the organization.

Who and what is this all about, folks?  Is it about the organization and its image, or is it about God and his righteous Laws?

Tom, I daresay, I believe you think it is all about you.

“The Lord rises to argue the case
and stands to judge the people.
 The Lord brings this charge
against the elders and leaders of His people:
“You have devastated the vineyard.
The plunder from the poor is in your houses.
 Why do you crush My people
and grind the faces of the poor?”
This is the declaration
of the Lord God of Hosts.”  Isa 3:13-15

The GB are like “Edom” who have forfeited their “birthright”  Heb 12:7-9; 14-17,25-27  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Heb+12%3A7-9%3B+14-17%2C25-27&version=HCSB

“Look, I will make you insignificant
among the nations;
you will be deeply despised.
 Your presumptuous heart has deceived you,
you who live in clefts of the rock
in your home on the heights,
who say to yourself,
“Who can bring me down to the ground?”
 Though you seem to soar like an eagle
and make your nest among the stars,
even from there I will bring you down.
This is the Lord’s declaration.”  Obadiah 1;2-4

16 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We read it because it contains God's instructions for us.

Yes, it does.

17 hours ago, AveragePub said:

When your new religion 

The Body of Christ has been around since Christ walked the earth.  John 2:19-21; 1 Cor 12:12,14, 26,27

17 hours ago, AveragePub said:

has Gods demonstrated support feel free to get back to me.

This is a condescending attempt to prove the power of God by the productivity of an organization.  Phil 3:18,19; Col 3:2  He doesn’t need an organization to demonstrate His power and support; even if that was the case, where was His demonstration of support in Russia?

“His wisdom is profound, his power is vast.
    Who has resisted him and come out unscathed?
 He moves mountains without their knowing it
    and overturns them in his anger.
 He shakes the earth from its place
    and makes its pillars tremble.
 He speaks to the sun and it does not shine;
    he seals off the light of the stars.
 He alone stretches out the heavens
    and treads on the waves of the sea.
 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion,
    the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.
 He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed,
    miracles that cannot be counted.
 When he passes me, I cannot see him;
    when he goes by, I cannot perceive him.
 If he snatches away, who can stop him?
    Who can say to him, ‘What are you doing?’  Job 9:1-12 

In the history of the bible (Bible) when has God deemed it necessary to use the world’s tools and money (belonging to Satan) to show His power and support toward his chosen people?   Men demonstrate the power of men in this manner.  There is nothing miraculous or unique about the success of the organization when comparing it to the corporation giants over the last century, or mankind’s accomplishments over the span of history. The Mormon religion was kindled at the same time as the Watchtower; if you count numbers, it has surpassed the organization with double the amount of members. They also have 4 universities under their belt.  Do they have God’s support?  They definitely think so.  

It is known that the city of Babylon was “one of the glories of the ancient world”.  Science is considering bringing the Woolly Mammoth back from DNA specimens; we have instant communication, instant travel, men went to the moon. These are pretty amazing accomplishments by men that do not support God's outworking of His will.  God can and has manipulated worldly events and entities to fulfill His will. The God of miracles uses unique demonstrations of His power, and very often He uses simple people to carry them out. 

This doesn’t negate the Watchtower’s vision of itself as a rich and glorious feat of ‘works and wonders’.  Money can accomplish great achievements in Satan’s world.  That too, was prophesied, “in the latter days”; and how a “Beast” “was given power to wage war against God’s holy people/”saints”/anointed ones,  and to conquer them”. Dan 8:23-26; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:3-17; Rev 18: 4-8  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+8%3A23-26%3B+2+Thess+2%3A9-12%3B+Rev+13%3A3-17%3B+Rev+18%3A+4-8&version=HCSB

Is there any indication of this fulfillment coming against the anointed ones as anywhere else in Satan’s world?  No, the anointed are located in the Watchtower, where they have submitted themselves to a culture of control; and there each heart’s desire will be tested, according to the foundation of Truth in Christ.   Luke 22:31; 1 Pet 4:12; James 22:31;  James 5:10,11; Job 1:8,12; John 15:20; Rev 12:10; 1 John 2:14  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+22%3A31%3B+1+Pet+4%3A12%3B+James+22%3A31%3B++James+5%3A10%2C11%3B+Job+1%3A8%2C12%3B+John+15%3A20%3B+Rev+12%3A10%3B+1+John+2%3A14+&version=NIV

Notice in Dan 11:31-35 that those anointed ones who break free of this obedience to men are “aided with a little help”, (such as a computer and the internet) to do what?  To call Christ’s brothers and brethren out of symbolic "Babylon" where they are held captive to failed doctrine, idolatry, oppression, and obedience to men. Zech 4:6; 1 Cor 1:27; 2 Cor 12:9; Rev 11:1-3  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zech.4%3A6%3B 1Cor.1%3A27%3B 2Cor.12%3A9%3B+Rev+11%3A1-3&version=HCSB

Job 12:13-25

46 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

@Witness  ( Exactly.  The Body of Elders are not anointed ones, as a whole, are they? )

Thats  not  really  true,  my  Brother....  I  posted  last  year  a  Memorial  photo,  and  all  could  see,  an  Elder  on  the  stage  has  taken  from  the  wine The  Librarian  was  wondering  too... What  will  us  tell  that ?  Also  an  Elder  can  belong  to  the  anointed  ones !  Why  not ?

Thank you, Queen Esther.  Notice that I said, "as a whole".  How many elders are there in the organization compared to how many anointed ones altogether, and how many of those anointed ones are elders, considering many anointed ones are women?   If even one "Gentile" sits in God's Temple as a priest, the Temple/ sanctuary is defiled.  In the ancient temple arrangement, no Gentile was allowed within the Temple.  2 Chron 26:18; Nehemiah 10:39; Matt 24:4  give examples.  

31 minutes ago, AveragePub said:

Go therefore knock on some doors! 

The internet is much more efficient for reaching the multitude (of JWs).  Besides, Jesus said, "Don't be moving from house to house".  Luke 10:7

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I like @AveragePub

With a mere phrase or two, he demolishes mounds of drivel.

#signherekid

God’s Laws appear to be drivel

God’s Temple appears to be drivel

The Body of Christ appears to be drivel

Christ’s love for his brothers appears to be drivel

Christ appears to be drivel; barely mentioned in the summer convention talks as an example of endurance. 

Scriptures appear to be drivel

Why read the bible?