Witness

On 10/10/2021 at 11:59 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Judgment Day will be a period of a thousand years during which humans will have the opportunity to regain what Adam and Eve lost.

Now is the judgment of this world. Now the ruler of this world will be cast out.  John 12:31

“Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life."  John 5:24

"This is the judgment: The light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil."   John 3:19

There is not another "judgment" after death is destroyed which is promised to happen at the end of Armageddon.  (1 Cor 15:25,26)

I think we need to remember that the Wt is an expert at confusing teachings.  Developing their doctrine that a thousand years of judgment to come AFTER Armageddon, is laced with a promise of peace, and  of becoming physically and mentally perfect, is totally misleading.  We have the accounts of faithful ones who lived their lives totally devoted to God and His word.  To think that they must enter into another judgment period after they are resurrected, is a lie. It negates the judgment of Christ now.   The symbolic "thousand years" is finished.  It was a time period where the anointed who lived as humans must prove their faithfulness, loyalty to truth, and their love for God, Jesus, and the assignment that was given to them.  (Luke 16:10; Matt 25:21) 

Wt doctrine is basically saying that not only does Jesus not have the capability to judge our hearts now, but neither does God.  These are the same leaders who have allowed the anointed to be trampled down by the elder body.  (Matt 24:24,25,15,16, 48-51;  2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; 13:1,2,5-7,11,12,15)  Whatever is done to the anointed members of Jesus Christ, is done to him.  (Acts 26:14)  So, of course Wt would imply that Jesus' promise of ETERNAL LIFE comes with a fine print clause....another judgment period is to follow,  after he DESTROYS DEATH.  

It is based on the desires of the flesh - who wouldn't latch on to a bogus promise of peace, physical beauty and mental perfection?  Who...would promise such things, but Satan who bestows physical riches, power and authority to those who do his bidding!  (Luke 4:5-7)

This is absolute blasphemy.  

John 6:63 - "The Spirit is the one who gives life. The flesh doesn’t help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life."

Thousand Years

15 hours ago, xero said:

The same way he used Cyrus.

No, not in the same way God used Cyrus.  

“Thus says the Lord to His anointed,
To Cyrus, whose right hand I have held—
To subdue nations before him
And loose the armor of kings,
To open before him the double doors,
So that the gates will not be shut:
2 ‘I will go before you
And make the crooked places straight;
I will break in pieces the gates of bronze
And cut the bars of iron.
3 I will give you the treasures of darkness
And hidden riches of secret places,
That you may know that I, the Lord,
Who call you by your name,
Am the God of Israel.  Isa 45

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

When the Bible says that "God will put it in the hearts of kings to do his will", then it is not a kind of "inspiration", but what is it then? Fraud in a "diplomatic" way?

2 hours ago, BroRando said:

ointing out the Hyprocisy.  When was the last time a journalist reported an Atheist or a Believer in the Big Bang was invloved in Child Sexual Abuse?  Yet, out of the Billions of Atheists, not a single report?

 

I get it.  When you read the article, you obviously recognized the seriousness of the wrong committed by the elders.  I would guess subconsciously, you reasoned there is nothing you can do about it, shifting your focus on other religions or atheists to soothe your conscience.  That’s very common for people do.  One thing about this blame-shifting, it helps erase the same problem happening in the org., out of the mind.  

God judges those “on the outside”, (1 Cor 5:12) so we must examine the practices of God’s holy priesthood; where a spiritual “Gentile” nation of elders judges them hypocritically, and all JWs. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:5-7)   Why, is this sin of neglect toward abuse victims in the org., predominant in the news?  I can’t dismiss the power of God and what Jesus said to his people,  “ For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known. ³ Therefore whatever you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have spoken in the ear in inner rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops.”  Luke 12:2,3

“inner rooms” – not only the inner rooms where the GB meet, but judicial committees where elders meet to pass hypocritical judgment against all. 

The first sins to be declared and seen, are those of God's people under covenant. Jesus and his disciples always revealed the hypocrisy among their people.  We do the same, since hypocrisy and threatening the innocent ones, breaks God’s laws fulfilled in Jesus Christ.  Ezek 3:18,19; 1 Cor 6:2; Eph 5:11,12; Ps 94:16; Rom 13:9  We have to take responsibility for the actions of our own people, just as Jeremiah did.  Jer. 8:14-21  His righteous conscience motivated him to do so.  

10 hours ago, BroRando said:

Just a few of the many Catholic Church's Clergy.

Are you saying that God's judgment is more severe against the Catholic Church than toward His holy people " Israel" under covenant - the anointed priests (1 Pet 2:5,9), and GB whom we assume are anointed?  Does God expect your "Gentile" elder judges found to be pedophiles, to receive a slap on the hand, while you expect the clergy of the Catholic Church to receive a much more stringent judgment by the court system?

"So now we call the arrogant blessed; not only are the doers of wickedness built up but they also test God and escape.’” (read further Mal 3:15-18)

"Therefore, every one of you who judges is without excuse. For when you judge another, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things.  Now we know that God’s judgment on those who do such things is based on the truth.  Do you think—anyone of you who judges those who do such things yet do the same—that you will escape God’s judgment?  Rom 2:1-3

5 hours ago, Witness said:

Robert Hendriks has a habit of saying basically the same thing in all his interviews; love of neighbor, love of God promotes the preaching work.  Also, love of neighbor and sanctity of life was the reason for stopping the public preaching work.  Propaganda, shedding a most favorable light amidst the darkness of child abuse from the same organization.

https://knox.villagesoup.com/2021/10/09/lawsuit-alleges-church-elder-sexually-abused-youth/

Robert Hendriks has a habit of saying basically the same thing in all his interviews; love of neighbor, love of God promotes the preaching work.  Also, love of neighbor and sanctity of life was the reason for stopping the public preaching work.  Propaganda, shedding a most favorable light amidst the darkness of child abuse from the same organization.

Is it truly love of neighbor to teach someone a doctrine, that is exposed as not true?  How could anyone say yes? It is not love, neither in the preaching work nor in the congregations by the leaders.  It’s like buying a set of encyclopedias from a door-to-door salesmen for your child, thinking they are accurately portraying the reference information needed to aid in your children’s search for knowledge, only to find out that each page holds major lies.  We would consider the salesman whom we bought the set from, a charlatan.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Does anyone in WTJWorg think that such a virtual meetings, virtual walks from house to house on the virtual streets and the like, will have bad consequences for the spirituality of JW members, now and in the future? With an already existing threat to spirituality due to so many changed doctrinal interpretations and religious practices inside and outside the JW church.

Exactly.  If the foundation of teaching is based on the necessity to continually change doctrine (because the previous doctrine was not TRUE), no one can develop a true personal love for God and Christ. We know them through the knowledge of truth, not through wrong, failed, deceitful doctrines. (Ps 25:5;John 14:6)

Hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you when he said:

⁸ This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me.
⁹ They worship me in vain,
teaching as doctrines human commands.”  Matt 15:7-9

@JW Insider - People can come into an association with our Christian brotherhood for all the wrong reasons, and never develop a true personal love for Jesus and Jehovah, but this doesn't mean that anyone should claim it was negative experiences in the organization that killed them spirituality. That would negate another of Paul's statements.

Losing one’s spirituality doesn’t result from someone joining for the wrong reasons, when the reasons for the existence of the organization, are already on shaky ground, evident through the twisted teachings of the Wt. (Matt 24:24,25; Col 2:8; 2 Tim 2:25,26; Rev 13:10; Rev 13:1,2,5-7,11,12; 16:13-16; 12:3,4) 

It is a place where the key of knowledge is taken away from its members, through the teachings of falsehoods which is called “new light”, “adjustments in understanding”. (Isa 33:6; Luke 11:52)  This in totality, is a negative experience.  So, yeah, people leave because of it and never pursue truth afterwards.  But not all of those joined for the wrong reasons; they joined thinking they had found TRUTH, and were disappointed to learn otherwise.   Others do pursue their spirituality upon leaving, and find truth in Jesus Christ, because they realized they were lacking a spiritual connection in the Father and the Son.   (John 14:6; 1 John 4:6)  

God’s word is solid Truth.  Jesus, as the Word, is solid Truth.  How can anyone come to know them OR truth, if it isn’t offered on a consistent basis?  “Living water” is consistent. (John 7:38; Jer 2:13)  The vision of the temple in Ezekiel describes the water (symbolic for life) as only getting deeper. It doesn’t stop at any point, or dry up, as a doctrine of men does; nor is it ever found to cause disease or death of another.  (Ezek 47:1-9; Rev 22:1,2; Rev 8:10,11) 

 The “bread of life” doesn’t become stale, tossed out for a new loaf. (John 6:48,51) These two sources of “food” in Jesus Christ are expected to be offered by those anointed teachers/”trees” who “remain” in him –through their consistent growing light of truth that LASTS, never rots, never needs to be discarded. (Matt 7:15-20; John 15:1-4,16,17)  Otherwise, the threat to one’s spirituality – one who accepts tainted water or stale bread full of a teacher’s own “yeast”, brings about a spiritual death.  (Matt 16:6)

Good gifts of living water and the bread of life is showing love to one’s neighbor. Wt’s history proves that its teachers do not present good, consistent, loving gifts.

“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? ¹⁰ Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? ¹¹ If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! ¹² So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.”  Matt 7:9-12

@JW Insider - (Romans 8:37-39) For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers ³⁹ nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God’s love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The apostle Paul was connected in truth to Jesus Christ.  The organization is the stumbling block that keeps one from knowing truth, from forming that connection.  If we tolerate shifting doctrine that scripture shows, does not have its source in Jesus, well yes, we have then allowed powers, governors of their government, to separate us from God’s love.  Why do JWs allow men uninspired to get away with it?  Why do they make excuses for their lies?  Why do JWs believe they have truth when scriptures prove they do not? The best way to live up to Paul's words, is to leave the stumbling block behind.   The GB are not sincerely asking for truth from Jesus Christ, because they love their own doctrine, their perversion of scripture. (Matt 7:7,8; Gal 1:6-10; 2 Pet 3:17,18; Phil 3:18,19) What comes out of their mouth proves no connection with Jesus as their Head. (Luke 6:45)  It is Jesus’ words that contain life, not the doctrine of men.  (Eph 4:14,15)

“Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.” 2 Tim 2:15

I don't doubt your knowledge of history.

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

there were apostates coming into the congregation and creating a ruling class

Hmmm, sounds very familiar. 

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

You start to apply this scripture only in the last century

   Rev 17 and 18, concerns God's anointed over the last 150 years, and down to today.

4 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

as a jw  ,i know it is impossible to kill spiritally anyone else ,as always, it is up to yourself as it was for adam ,if you bother to go to any meetings ,you will hear this ,that it is up to yourself to take care of the spiritual life you have,,,its your choice to wake up or go on as the rest of the world does

 

Yes, the Wt. will speak out of both sides of its mouth.  It is up to each one of us, not to men, but men in the organization still use their "power" to label one as spiritually dead.

This scripture is used to support Wt’s disfellowshipping in the w/1981/9/15 p. 2, but notice part of their cited scriptures has been left out:

“Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. . . . If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.”—2 John 9-11.

NKJV - “Whoever ^[a]transgresses (“goes ahead”) and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. ¹⁰ If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; ¹¹ for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.”

If someone doesn’t have God, are they spiritually alive, or are they spiritually dead even though they may be alive in the flesh? (Matt 4:4;Eph 2:12; 1 Tim 2:1-7)  If the elders make the call to use this scripture against someone as they have in the article on disfellowshipping, they are saying that the person they are disfellowshipping is spiritually dead - they are without the living God.

The scriptures used to support Wt’s disfellowshipping was to be applied to those anointed who left “the Way” of truth in the apostle's day (Acts 19:9) – those who detached themselves from the anointed Body of Christ, who became arrogant sinners and taught false doctrine - "going ahead" of the doctrine of Christ.  Col 2:19; 2 Tim 3:1-5; 1 Tim 4:1-3; 2 Pet 2:1-3; Acts 20:29,30; 1 John 2:18,19; Jude 1:14-16

“I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. ¹⁰ Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. ¹¹ But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.  For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? ¹³ But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Cor 5

There is no place within the members of Christ’s anointed body for evil doers; whether physically displaying the traits Paul mentioned, or spiritually as unfaithful immoral “harlots”. (Ps 106:39; Isa 1:21; Rev 17:1-6)  But, according to this scripture, who are to judge the other anointed members of the Body of Christ?  Unanointed elders?  No, the anointed priests under Jesus Christ have been assigned this role.  

So right there, we see that the disfellowshipping act by the organization is founded on deceit– invalid in God’s eyes since the organization has shunned the anointed priesthood even inside its walls (2 Thess 2:3,4); yet the spirit-directed organization (idol) has successfully cut off family members, friends, loved ones; telling its members that this practice is to keep THE ORGANIZATION clean.  The idol must appear perfect on the outside.  (Matt 23:25,26)  And without a doubt, it convinces its members that these shunned people, are as good as dead.  

Going back to 2 John 9-11, it is clear that the Wt leaders do not “bring this doctrine” of Jesus Christ.  Why?  They teach the doctrine of MEN.  They set rules and regulations, and by "going ahead", they make predictions that do not come true. (Matt 15:9; Gal 1:11) Their spiritual “food”, predictably rots. (Matt 7:15-20) They are the false prophets that Jesus warned would deceive “even the elect” – the anointed priesthood. (Matt 24:24,25)  Wt’s leaders have disconnected themselves from Jesus Christ and his doctrine.  THEY are to be shunned for their spiritual harlotry.  And yet, if they were to repentant, they would be restored to life in Jesus Christ. (1 Cor 5:5)

“He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.”

Without remaining in Christ, producing food that “lasts”, your leaders are spiritually dead.   (John 15:1-8,16)  And what about JWs who spiritually exist on what they offer?  Are they any better off?  (Isa 28:8,10,14,15)

In Wt's eyes, when someone is disfellowshipped, they are cut off from the organization that is preached as the way to salvation.  Salvation is eternal life.  Can you see how the shunned ones are viewed as spiritually dead? Do you not believe that there is no promise of eternal life outside of the Wt?   Yes, it truly is bogus, since leaders who preach lies have no possibility of eternal life, unless they repent.

“To the angel of the church in Sardis write:

"These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you."  Rev 3:1-3

1 hour ago, BroRando said:

Jehovah Witnesses can't (kill) anyone spiritually.  If you were a Jehovah's Witness, you would know that. 

Yes, your spirit-directed organization has been given power to spiritually “kill” anyone who rejects the organization  – who rejects the elder body – who rejects the GB, and who speak TRUTH. 

John 16:2-4

I was a JW, blind as you are for over 32 years.

"Are you personally proving yourself holy with regard to not associating with family members or others who have been disfellowshipped?" Watchtower 2014 Nov 15 p.14

Can you see that the disfellowshipped have lost, according to the elders’ ruling, all “holiness” before God?  Do the unholy/unrighteous inherit the Kingdom?  It is decreed that they are spiritually “dead” until they repent according to Watchtower’s rules. 

The elders represent the “image” of the spirit-directed organization. The elders “sit as God in the temple of God” showing that they have the (unlawful) ability to speak for God.  2 Thess 2:4; Rev 13:11,14,15,18

8 hours ago, BroRando said:

Matter of fact, many of my brothers and sisters are imprisoned for refusing to engage in war, so they are IMPRISONED for not killing other people! "

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

..... Some of you, JW', "kill" others with wrong words and wrong behavior towards others.

There is a physical killing and a spiritual killing.  Sometimes the spiritual ends up in the physical killing of the individual, through the reverberating effects of the practice of hate and shunning by JWs.

"Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to (physically) kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God's law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof. Satan's influence through the disfellowshiped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshiped member in his course or in his position toward God's organization” Watchtower 1952 Nov 15 p.703

There.  That puts it in the minds of JWs, that anyone disfellowshipped or anyone who walks away from the organization, is as good as dead in God’s eyes.

JWs are famously known worldwide, for their “killing” through disfellowshipping and shunning.  (Rev 13:15)

On 10/4/2021 at 3:42 AM, Arauna said:

Have you not read Revelation 17 and 18?   That the blood of the holy ones are on the hands of Christendom and the world empire of false religion -  the DOM in Christendom stands for DOMAIN - the ruling class of the Christians. Those who imposed themselves onto Christians and rule like real kings.  Not a few elders who try to correct their brothers when they lead others astray.  Those are the true oppressors of truth and have usurped Christianity and have much power to destroy lives and lead them directly to worship Satan!

I’m sorry Arauna, but you are teaching falsehoods, and yes, you are “teaching” as a woman! 

"Those who imposed themselves onto Christians and rule like real kings." 

Who would that be?

The blood of the holy ones is on the hands of those who were once under covenant with God. – the rulers and the people of Israel.  You do know that your organization states that JWs have “come out” of Babylon the great? Under favorable circumstances in alignment with scripture, this would mean JWs are now blessed by God, and are safe, (which they actually preach) having God’s strength to keep them that way; is that not the case? They have built their DOMAIN – kingDOM. (1 Thess 5:3)

So, if I understand right, you are saying Christendom’s rulers are coming after JWs?  You think they are oppressing Wt’s truth, which is actually lies?  (2 Thess 2:9,10; 2 Pet 1:2-3)

Even though you are in a ‘spiritual paradise’, you do also know that your governing body member, S. Lett, says that Gog of Magog of Ezek 38 is a “Gentile” coalition of nations to come against JWs?  And that persecution is likely?  And these nations are also part of “false religion”/“Babylon the Great”, no? 

You have a conundrum in teachings.  Apparently, the organization of JWs has God’s blessing on it because they are the “remnant” to come out of Babylon the Great, the empire of false religion.   But wait, Christendom/Babylon and Gog of Magog are still coming for you!  

Doesn’t the organization preach that it is full of a righteous, obedient people? So tell me one instance when God allowed other nations to plunder His people, when they were faithful and obeying His laws, which every JW believes they are doing?

 Why did God’s people suffer persecution under the Babylonians?  Judah was wicked, disregarding God’s laws.  Hab 1:1-11

“Didn’t you exist before time began, O Lord, my God, my Holy One? We will not die! O Lord, you have appointed the Babylonians to bring judgment. O Rock, you have destined them to correct us.”  Hab 1:12

If those of your “Babylon” are coming after JWs, what have you done wrong?

What about Lett’s Gog of Magog?  Why did that army come upon Israel? 

“You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army. ¹⁶ You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. In days to come, Gog, I will bring you against my land, so that the nations may know me when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.”

Why would God need Gog of Magog to prove His holiness? 

“‘I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay on them.  From that day forward the people of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God. ²³ And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. ²⁴ I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their offences, and I hid my face from them.’”  Ezek 39

Yes, Babylon and Gog of Magog were used against Israel as punishment.  I know JWs in general don’t believe they need to be punished by God sending Gentile nations against them.  How do your leaders feel so confident to skip the reasons why God’s people faced persecution from nations?  It is because there are very few among you, who actually READ the scriptures. So, your leaders are banking on the idea that they can get away with it!  You can’t just pick a little here and a little there without giving the entire account of WHY.  Your leaders made the same mistake with the locusts of Joel.  What will JWs do if the organization is still existing 5-10 years from now, when after reading the scriptures, your leaders tell you WHY Gog of Magog came against Israel, and they will have to scrap another embarrassing teaching?

Actually, I believe they have this planned out. They can’t touch Rev 20:7-10.  There, in the last days, Gog and Magog come against and surround…THE ANOINTED SAINTS – THE HOLY PEOPLE.  They don’t bring up this account in the last book of prophesy that addresses Armageddon,  because it conflicts with their false doctrine of a thousand years of peace after Armageddon – this, when it is promised “death will be destroyed” when Jesus returns.  If death is destroyed, then Gog and Magog will not appear a literal thousand years into the Kingdom. (1 Cor 15:25,26)

Taking away their thousand year doctrine would be devastating to the "faith" of JWs! The doctrine of men is more important than the word of God.  That has been proven when JWI said, scrapping 1914 by your leaders years ago who realized it is a lie, would disrupt the “faith” of JWs.  It had nothing to do with TRUTH.  What weak, unfaithful men, who refused to listen to God’s word and choose their falsehoods, over truth.

Christendom and the nations are not the fulfillment of Revelation.  Although Christendom has a horrible history of killing innocent people, possibly even anointed ones over the centuries, about his own people, Jesus said,   

 Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,’ ⁵⁰ that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, ⁵¹ from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!”  Luke 13:34

Do you see?  the blood of the “holy ones”, the prophets, will be required by God’s wayward people – an evil generation, who were under covenant with him, which Christendom is not, and this applies to today's "evil generation".   (Deut 1:35)

Hos 4:1-9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea+4%3A1-9&version=NIV

Where is “Jerusalem”, “Israel” today?  The anointed are “Israel”/New Jerusalem. (Gal 4:26) The elder body is a very large “Gentile” “iron” nation that has come against God’s authentic anointed. (Dan 2:40-42; Rev 9:1-5; 13:5-7) Compare the numbers and consider the total of elders, thousands of them worldwide.   We know it is far greater than the small amount of anointed, even if God only knows how many authentic anointed there are left in the Wt. Only the elders, can trample the Temple “living stones”; by standing where they don’t belong (Mark 13:14); and they have, by replacing and judging God’s holy priesthood and removing their daily sacrifices of praise. (Dan 8:11-13,31; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:1-4) The holy ones/prophets/”two (meaning truth) witnesses” are sent to God’s people in this day (Rev 11:1-3), warning them of their idolatry to an organization, and for their sins of obeying prominent men, and not Jesus Christ. (Matt 24:24,25; Rev 13:4) They are unfaithful toward God’s laws in Christ, choosing the laws of men founded on lies.  A. Morris said the GB makes "decrees" that must be obeyed. Where is that written in the scriptures that it is okay to follow and obey uninspired men?  God has allowed His Temple to be trampled down as punishment against His people’s sins. (Dan 8:12 ("because of transgression"); Luke 22:31; Rev 12:1-4)   What happens to any anointed who speaks truth and represent Jesus Christ? They, and the “two witnesses”/appointed messengers are “killed”/disfellowshipped by the “Gentiles”.  This is spiritual blood on the hands of your leaders and the “Gentile”/elders. (Rev 6:9-11)

 How do I know this happens in “Jerusalem”, the “holy city” and not in Christendom?  (Rev 13:5-7; 20:9)

“When they finish their testimony, the beast (organization) that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. ⁸ And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”

Jesus was killed right outside of Jerusalem.  (Heb 13:13)

The apostles were persecuted BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING TRUTH.  They also, were thrown out of the synagogues just as the elders disfellowship any who speak truth today. They are thrown out of the congregations. (John 16:2; Rev 13:15)

Persecution that happens in the world to JWs, is for two reasons.  God lets it happen, since His spirit is not with the organization; and since His people commit idolatry, not following Christ’s teachings. They follow another “head” – your harlot leaders and wicked slave. (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:11,12,15)  The other reason is because Satan wants to hide the true identity of the man of lawlessness that resides in the organization.  He has devised his counter fulfillment, easily swallowed by JWs like you, since they are blinded by the desire to relish lies and look for fulfillment in Satan’s world – just where he wants their focus to lie. (Luke 17:20,21; Matt 12:39)   This, is the war against truth spoken by Christ’s servants, and falsehoods spoken by Satan’s servants.  (Matt 24:15,16, 22-18; 2 Cor 11:13-14; Rev 12:7-9; 16:13-16 )

Revelation 18:4 says, “come out of her my people”.  Are JWs still thinking that God’s people under covenant are in Christendom and need to “come out”? Or, are JWs in “Babylon”, carrying the mark of the Beast – the identity put upon them by the organization? (Isa 28:14,15; Rev 8:15-17; 14:9,10)

Rev 18:4 applies to God’s holy people and those with them, who are under a “Gentile” rule of discipline.  Only the hard-hearted ones who refuse to see their sins and idolatry, will remain under the rule of the two Beasts of Revelation – Gog and Magog.  There will come a day when the scales will be removed, and they will finally be shown the true identity of the man of lawlessness.  (Rev 17:8)  It’s time to come out of the Wt, now. 

The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. ⁵ Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say:

“You are just in these judgments, O Holy One,
    you who are and who were;
⁶ for they have shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets,
    and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”

⁷ And I heard the altar respond:

“Yes, Lord God Almighty,
    true and just are your judgments.” Rev 16:4

Who…has shed the blood of God’s holy people?  Those unfaithful harlot leaders of the physical nation of Israel, and today’s spiritual “Israel”, who have made a covenant with “Gentiles”, leading to the trampling of God’s Temple.  (Dan 11:32; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12; Rev 11:1-3)

Daniel chapter 11

.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

Well, my elder husband left the organization because of its hypocrisy, before I did.  I followed a while afterward. He supported me in this work, until he died.

 But, let me pose a scenario:  A JW “sister” approaches the elders about her abusive husband, and they tell her to go home and pray, to help her continue to tolerate the abuse by her JW husband who could likely be an elder.  That sister, battered and torn down by abuse, who can’t take any more neglect of shepherding by the elders, leaves the organization and her abusive husband.  She is subsequently disfellowshipped for speaking against the abuse that was never dealt with by the elder body.  Or perhaps she filed a report to the police when she was told to keep it to herself, since her husband was an elder in "good standing" with the congregation and good buddies with the elder body.  Does that woman’s husband have the right to divorce her for being labeled an apostate, now that she is disfellowshipped?

What I see in you, is a lust for blood and destruction, and an arrogance similar to your leaders.  The “two witnesses” who prophesy the sins of their people – their anointed brothers and sisters, who tolerate the elders/man of lawlessness robbing them of their position as priests -  preach in sackcloth, in mourning for their people. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; 18:4-8) 

But you seem to love and condemn millions to a bloody or a literal fiery death.  

I’m very sorry for you.  This is not the way of Jesus Christ. ( Luke 19:10; Rev 3:1-3, 17-19)

It just dawned on me that you may not understand the reason for the topic title.  This was a question directed to Pearl, which if you go to the link for the article on her blog, it will explain it.  

10 hours ago, BroRando said:

Oh... is your husband in heaven now ruling as a king and still in need of understanding about the meek inheriting the earth? Just send him a text....  maybe you girls can send him a smoke signal through one of your seances...  

Last week you claimed not to be anointed and the week before that you were claiming Christ was God in John 1:1c...  Oh Pearl.... you're being engulfed....  it's so sad to witness you slipping away ever so slowly.

This is Paula.  Pearl does not comment here.  Neither one of us have denied that we are anointed.  One member of this forum once asked about my anointing; from there it has been used as fuel for slander, although I have never pushed being anointed, or used it as  leverage of power over anyone.  (John 13:20; 15:20)  And, as I’ve said to you, I do not believe in the trinity, nor does Pearl. 

When people have to fabricate a lie – by taking truth and twisting it, making it crooked, altering factual truth to help them feel better about their own lies  -  I am reminded of the Pharisees twisting the words of Jesus. It reminds me of your leaders stating that those who speak against their lies by using scriptural truth, as being the demonic ones. Quickly, they target this person to be disfellowshipped  – removed from the congregations to shut them up; which in actuality, this “killing” leads to freedom and blessings.  (John 16:2; Rev 13:1,2,11,12,15; 1 John 3:12; Rev 12:17; Matt 5:11,12; Mark 8:35; Isa 42:5-7)  

It appears also, that you have fallen into this trap.  Jesus basically told the early leaders, they were children of their father the devil – saying they were an “evil generation”. (John 8:44; Luke 11:29) That generation line, is continuous, until the end.  (Gen 3:15; Deut 32:5; Acts 2:40; Matt 24:34,35)  Altering truth that someone has once proclaimed, is as Jesus said in John 8:44, speaking from one’s “own resources” – from what comes out of their heart.  (Luke 6:45)

Phil 2:12,13,15,16 -  “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; ¹³ for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.”

“that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, ¹⁶ holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.”

Seriously, please think about this. I also hope you can see that it is an “evil generation” that demands a physical sign, which you rely on through use of your dates for the coming of the Kingdom.  (Matt 12:39)

Generation

40 minutes ago, BroRando said:

You're giving yourself away Pearl.  You want to take the lead so bad you formed a 'girls club'.  Or is it that you have simply signed up several accounts under different aliases to try to convince others you're a victim.  Pretend to take the night off as Pateiently then coming back under several aliases trying to give yourself a false support of ill-advised commentary.

OCD-hate is what you have.... you fool many...  if your husband left the organization as you now claim years ago..  you would have Never mentioned to the forum "How can I explain 'the meek will inherit the earth' to my jw husband?"

If you'll notice, the topic is in the color blue and in quotes.  These are Pearl's words, and the link to the article on her blog is included.  My name is Paula which I have shared here before.  This is my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/restorationofjacob

 While my husband died a year ago this last August, Pearl's husband, Obadiah, is still alive.  Here is his blog: http://obadiah-blogs.blogspot.com/

 I'm not sure what your point is, but Pearl and I and other anointed ones, as well as believers in Christ, work together as a congregation.  It certainly is not a "girl's club" as you assume.  

6 hours ago, BroRando said:

I'll talk to your husband for you.  Under our New Understanding, he is elgible to divorce an opposer... it would be a valid divorce and he be free to marry a younger more vital sister... I'll guess any sister would be much better than an old worn out opposer... 😀

Just send him to this site you're on!

Well, my elder husband left the organization because of its hypocrisy, before I did.  I followed a while afterward. He supported me in this work, until he died.

 But, let me pose a scenario:  A JW “sister” approaches the elders about her abusive husband, and they tell her to go home and pray, to help her continue to tolerate the abuse by her JW husband who could likely be an elder.  That sister, battered and torn down by abuse, who can’t take any more neglect of shepherding by the elders, leaves the organization and her abusive husband.  She is subsequently disfellowshipped for speaking against the abuse that was never dealt with by the elder body.  Or perhaps she filed a report to the police when she was told to keep it to herself, since her husband was an elder in "good standing" with the congregation and good buddies with the elder body.  Does that woman’s husband have the right to divorce her for being labeled an apostate, now that she is disfellowshipped?

What I see in you, is a lust for blood and destruction, and an arrogance similar to your leaders.  The “two witnesses” who prophesy the sins of their people – their anointed brothers and sisters, who tolerate the elders/man of lawlessness robbing them of their position as priests -  preach in sackcloth, in mourning for their people. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; 18:4-8) 

But you seem to love and condemn millions to a bloody or a literal fiery death.  

I’m very sorry for you.  This is not the way of Jesus Christ. ( Luke 19:10; Rev 3:1-3, 17-19)

6 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

If the number of them has to be sealed, then there must be a set number. 

You wrote a lot but didn't answer my questions. I think we must agree to differ. 

In Hebrew, “thousand” -  Strong’s concordance refers it to “a company of men”.  It’s interesting to read its definition on blueletterbible.

The Greek “thousand” - plural of uncertain affinity

“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” 2 Pet 3:8

“For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.”  Ps 90:4

The number one thousand (1,000) symbolizes “immensity,” “fullness of quantity” or “multitude.” The number evokes a very long time according to most Bible passages. It is often used in scripture to specify an indefinite quantity. http://www.scripturerevealed.com/bible-studies/the-meaning-of-numbers-the-number-1000/

One thing I think we agree on, is that it is a number that has an end, according to God.  But when reading Rev 21:14-22, which uses terms that appear to be describing a literal building, I realize its full spiritual symbolism, since the Temple is built with people, God and Jesus, not with literal walls, gates and a foundation.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)  I believe also, the number who “fill” this spiritual temple is also symbolic. 

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

 

Those who belong to Christ (his body members.. This must surely be a limited number ?  A body can only have a certain amout of members / parts.  Do you therefore believe that the 144,000 is the real number ?

They bring with them from heaven, healing and blessing to all the Nations.- So who or what is the 'Nations' ?

The teaching that there is a "heavenly hope" and an "earthly hope", is false.  How is this false if only a certain number will have access to Heaven ? 

I thought it was the GB / Org that have started to teach that ALL JWs are part of the 'body of Christ'.  

Now you seem to be teaching it.  If there is no distinction between 'heaveny' and 'earthly' ones, then tell us what (non body of Christ) humans become ?    The plot thickens. 

The Body of Christ involves God's chosen priesthood. (1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10; Isa 43:21,10) I don't believe that this "body" is everyone. (Rom 2:28,29; Gal 3:29; Rom 9:8) The priests are to serve not only God and Jesus, but the "nations" - the children to come in the Kingdom.  This Body of Christ is "New Jerusalem" coming down out of heaven as the dwelling of God's Spirit which "resides" with mankind - the nations.  (Rev 21:1-4)  This is a family, with children "born" first - the anointed who comprise the Bride of Christ under the New Covenant.  Symbolically, this Bride when united with Jesus, "her" "husband", indicates the fulfillment of the New Covenant. (2 Cor 11:2) More children are "born" in the Kingdom of God. (Isa 66)  I believe, just as Revelation is a symbolic book, the number "144,000" is also symbolic and is used in the scriptures in various ways. With the Wt, everything is physical, tangible, not spiritual - including the number 144,000.  If the Body was formed from a definite number, then wouldn't each one have a different gift from the other?  But this isn't the case, since the gifts are outlined in the scriptures and there are not, as far as we know, a literal 144,00 of them.  🙂

We know that the Temple of God is a "living" temple, not physical. (2 Cor 6:16)   Neither is the number of "stones" who comprise it.  This article below breaks down 144,000 to reveal that it is based on the "measurement" of the temple of God, and that measurement is truth in Jesus Christ.  (Eph 2:20-22; 1 Tim 3:15)

This scripture is for all who accept and believe the truth in Jesus Christ - Both the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let anyone who hears, say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come. Let the one who desires take the water of life freely.  Rev 22:17

Who are the 144,000?

"It all goes back to what God promised Abraham. God repeated that promise, to Abraham's grandson, Jacob. In fact, *the scriptures I'm going to give you, prove that JW doctrine is false.*

At Gen.28: "10 Jacob left Beersheba and set out for Harran. 11 When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep. 12 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and *the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.* 13 There above it stood the Lord, and he said: ‘I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. *I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying.* 14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and *they will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring."*

There we learn, that it is Abraham's seed, that will inherit the earth. But we learn more... The meaning of "angel", is messenger. Verse 12 tells us, that those messengers will be traveling between heaven and earth, and in the very next verse, says that the earth will belong to Abraham's seed and they will spread out to possess the entire planet.

Why put the vision of the angels, along with the promise of the people who are going to Inherit the earth?

At John1:51, Jesus told Nathaniel, "‘Very truly I tell you, you will see “heaven open, and *the angels of God ascending and descending in service to the Son of Man.’"*

Jesus repeated the words that God told Jacob, but added that the angels/messengers, would be serving Christ, AND, that Nathaniel himself, would see it.

When we keep in mind that angel is the original word, but when translated, really means "messenger", we can certainly see how Nathaniel saw messengers, serving Jesus Christ. Jesus was telling Nathaniel, that the apostles and Jesus' Elect, would fulfill Gen.28:12.

Who inherits the earth?

Abraham's seed, who are those born again as spirit. They are those who serve Christ, by being messengers of the gospel of light and life. In God's future kingdom, they will traverse between heaven and earth, so that as Gen.28:14 said; "All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring."

That quote is a parallel to Rev.22: "1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the trees of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. *And the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations."*

We see that the trees of life that bear fine fruit, will heal/bless, all the nations. Jesus compared his messengers, to trees... their teachings, to fruit (Luke6:43-45; Matt.7:15-20).

Rev.21 reads; "2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, *COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN from God,* prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Look! God’s dwelling-place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."

When referring to those faithful servants of Christ, who become spirit-born sons of God; Gal.3 reads;

"26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 *If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.*

Those who belong to Christ (his body members... his messengers who serve him), become spiritual seed of Abraham. They inherit the promise made to Abraham.

They, inherit the earth. They bring with them from heaven, healing and blessing to all the Nations.-

And so, the doctrine of the WT that teaches that the anointed, never return to earth, is false.

The teaching that there is a "heavenly hope" and an "earthly hope", is false.

The teaching that JW "elders" are the "princes in all the earth" when God's kingdom arrives, is false.

The teaching that JWs are the ones that inherit the earth, is false."

Pearl Doxsey  - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2021/10/who-inherit-earth.html

"For the creation eagerly waits with anticipation for God’s sons to be revealed.  For the creation was subjected to futility—not willingly, but because of him who subjected it—in the hope that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of corruption into the glorious freedom of God’s children.  For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together with labor pains until now."  Rom 8:19-22

Jacob's Ladder

On 9/24/2021 at 8:03 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Here is a JW committee where a woman can also participate in decisions led by men.

Well, there wasn't a lot that she was allowed to comment on - "poor posture" inhibits good singing.  Seemed like such an important meeting, all the while stuff like this is happening:

exjwReddit:  "Just informed of a child sexual predator in the hall."

"So my wife and I were informed by the elders that we are to review chapter 32 of the learn from the great teacher book. Which I was like ok what's this about?..

The next thing out of their mouths shocked me. Don't let your children be around or alone with Brother so-and-so....ever. Zoom breakout rooms or when we return to in person services.

Me being a paranoid father goes into our states very easy to use sex offender registry. All the nearby territory zip codes and our territory zip codes and he's not registered...

So is he a predator that has only been caught and disciplined in the congregation? And to be so hush hush about it that you had to have a special meeting to tell us as parents. Shouldn't everyone know there is a sexual predator in their presence?

Is this just more evidence that they cover this shit up and even in my own congregation?

As if I didn't have enough reason not to return to the hall in person. This just cements my determination to never return. They put all the responsibility of the predator on us and we have to be on alert at all times, especially the meetings?

I thought the meetings were a spiritual paradise a place to be protected from the world. Seems we are more in danger in what's supposed to be a safe place."

4 hours ago, BroRando said:

for 1,500 years.

Another "set" time?

4 hours ago, BroRando said:

So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life.  (Genesis 3:24)

This is judgment, Adam and Eve faced judgment.  The "flaming blade of a sword" is the fire of God's Word.  "Is not my word like fire, declares the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?"  Jer 23:29

"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."  Heb 4:12

On 9/30/2021 at 7:42 PM, BroRando said:

For the next 1,500 years, Satan and his angels had their eyes on that tree of life with no avail.

Jesus, is the tree of life.  If Satan had his "eyes" on it, it was to bring about his enemy's destruction. (Gen 3:15) The anointed, are also referred to as "trees".  (Matt 7:17,20; John 6:57,58,63;17:2;6:44,45; Rev 2:7; Ps 1:3; Rev 22:2,14)  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+7%3A17%2C20%3B+John+6%3A57%2C58%2C63%3B17%3A2%3B6%3A44%2C45%3B+Rev+2%3A7%3B+Ps+1%3A3%3B+Rev+22%3A2%2C14&version=NIV

The choice was given to Adam and Eve which "tree" to eat from, with the consequences for choosing the lies of Satan, instead of the "tree" of truth in the Word of God.  John 1:1  We also have that choice.  2 Thess 2:9,10

Two Trees - Past and Present

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

I have seen no practice of this.... so you are more than a false accuser.... but I leave God to judge that. ....

We are all being judged by the words of Jesus Christ as Morris said, who then bent his words into a tight ball of yarn for his benefit.  John 14:23  Our spiritual perception can be dulled by our own desires. It requires spiritual perception to understand the sins of God’s people today.

 Jesus said, “Don’t collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. ²⁰ But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don’t break in and steal.”  Matt 6:19,20

Idolaters set their mind/focus on earthly things, which is the whole concept of the Watchtower’s existence.

“More than that, I now regard all things as liabilities compared to the far greater value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things—indeed, I regard them as dung!—that I may gain Christ, ⁹ and be found in him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ’s faithfulness—a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ’s faithfulness.

Be imitators of me, brothers and sisters, and watch carefully those who are living this way, just as you have us as an example. ¹⁸ For many live, about whom I have often told you, and now, with tears, I tell you that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is the belly, they exult in their shame, and they think about earthly things. Phil 3 

We have Jesus and the apostles as our pattern to follow in this matter.  JWs choose the pattern set by the GB without examining the scriptures, as you yourself have done.  God doesn’t choose that corrupt example, and His tolerance only goes so far. 

The Lord said,

“Go up and down through the streets of Jerusalem.
Look around and see for yourselves.
Search through its public squares.
See if any of you can find a single person
who deals honestly and tries to be truthful.
If you can, then I will not punish this city.
² These people make promises in the name of the Lord.
But the fact is, what they swear to is really a lie.”

“These people have denied what the Lord says.  – the words of Jesus Christ.
They have said, ‘That is not so!
No harm will come to us.
We will not experience war and famine.
¹³ The prophets will prove to be full of wind.
The Lord has not spoken through them.
So, let what they say happen to them.’”

“Proclaim this message among the descendants of Jacob.
Make it known throughout Judah.
²¹ Tell them: ‘Hear this,
you foolish people who have no understanding,
who have eyes but do not discern,
who have ears but do not perceive:
²² ‘You should fear me!’ says the Lord.
‘You should tremble in awe before me!

Something horrible and shocking
is going on in the land of Judah:
³¹ The prophets prophesy lies.
The priests exercise power by their own authority.
And my people love to have it this way.
But they will not be able to help you when the time of judgment comes! Jer 5

JWs frequently compare the organization to the days of Moses leading the nation of Israel in the wilderness.  They tie these time periods together by saying they are both ‘theocratic organizations’.  However, do they acknowledge that Moses was an inspired prophet leading God’s people; and simply, their leaders are not by their own admittance? When making this comparison, do they acknowledge that God installed His priests, anointing them with holy oil, and giving them the assignment to teach the people His laws?  (Exod 28:41;29:7-9; Mal 2:7)

The priesthood in Moses’ day was separated from the people to carry out this special work as ministers of God on behalf of the people. (Num 18:7,20; 3:10; Deut 17:9; 31:9) 

In the early 1950’s it was stated in a JW magazine that the members of the “royal priesthood” were to be “teachers and guardians of the law of God”, providing evidence from  Mal 2:7; Lev 10:11; Deut 33:10; 17:9-11.  It said that the anointed priests had a ‘tremendous responsibility which God held them to’. They were to keep the people “on the right path”.   (Num 18:7,20; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9; Heb 13:15; Ezek 44:23; Jer 23:22)

Are any of these words from the past magazine recognizable in “Jehovah’s organization” today? Like a chameleon blending into a wall unnoticed, the leadership of pathological liars has changed any bits of truth into untruths so gradually, that nothing seems amiss to present day JWs. (Ezek 13:3,6,7,14; Matt 24:24,25; Acts 13:9,10; Gal 1:6,7,11,12; 2 Pet 2:1-3; 1 Tim 4:1,2; Heb 12:15; 2 Pet 3:17; Rev 8: 10,11; 16:13-16)

These changes have aided in the development, and capability of two “Beasts” to dominate and trample God’s priesthood into the dust, into an unclean state before God. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 9:1-6; 13:1,2,5-7;11,12,15-17) (Isa 29:2-4; Dan 7:23; Luke 21:20,24; 19:43,44; Eccl 3:20; 12:7; Rev 3:1,18)  

We have an incomparable situation from that of Moses’ day, where the spirit-anointed priesthood has been shoved out of the position as active priests. Their value spoken of in the 1950’s has been dismissed by a large army’s power siege, under the guidance of a “wicked slave”.  (Ezek 34:21;Jer 4:16-21,27,28; Joel 2:2,17; Dan 7:19; 8:10,11,13; 11:31;Matt 24:48-51)

The Levitical priesthood is under an eternal covenant with God, but His anointed priests have broken this promise God held them to, and have allowed the elder body said to “represent” God’s priests, to teach men’s laws founded on the principles of an earthly organization.   (Jer 33:18-21; Num 18:1,5,19; Heb 4:14,15; 8:10; 13:15) (Mal 2:8; Lam 2:9; Joel 2:17; Jer 5:3,11,30,31; 2 Chron 15:3; Luke 11:52;2 Thess 2:3,4)  

But now, an earthly organization is proclaimed as the dwelling of God’s spirit. (Rom 1:25) This image of a “spirit-directed organization” is reflected through the representation of the elder body.  The men are said to have received Holy Spirit and authority to teach and judge, by the misapplication of scriptures, which rightfully apply to God’s holy priesthood.  (1 Kings 12:28-30; 13:33,34; Rev 13:11,12,15; 19:20) (John 20:23; 1 Cor 6:2,3;12:4-6,27; Eph 4:4,7,8,12,13; Rev 20:4)

Replacing and silencing these “living stones of God’s spiritual dwelling, is an “abomination” according to God. (Num 3:10,38; 2 Chron 13:9,10; Ezek 8:6; 44:6-9; Matt 24:15,16; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 4:1; Heb 9:11; Eph 2:20-22)   

And that does lead to a few apt comparisons to the time of Israel in the wilderness.  Besides the persistent tendency to neglect the word of the Holy One, there are two major correlations we can make.  The first was Korah’s attempt to usurp the priesthood.

The organization comments, “When Korah and his associates in the wilderness wanted to exalt themselves to the priesthood and charged Moses and Aaron with taking too much on themselves, they proved that they did not appreciate theocratic organization.” (w 1952/Feb 1 pp. 76-85)

Today, it is clearly evident that there is no appreciation for ‘theocratic organization’ in the anointed priesthood of God’s Temple under Jesus Christ. By the orders of the evil slave and her massive army, they are denied the ability to direct the people in truth.  (Zech 8:16; Prov 8:7;12:17; 2 Cor 4:1,2; 1 Tim 4:1; Dan 8:12)  This equates to removal of their “daily sacrifices” of praise and truth in Jesus, to the Father. (Dan 7:23; 8:10,11,13;11:31; John 15:4-6)

All that has taken place in the organization, was prophesied to affect the remaining anointed ones in the last days – Christ’s “kings of the earth”. (Rev 12:17,15; Dan 11:10; Rev 16:13-16; 20;7-9; Luke 21:20) (Rev 1:5; 5:9,10)

The other major comparison to Israel’s years in the wilderness, was the idolatry that broke out among them. (Exod 32:1) Their uprising, which led to fabricating a golden calf to “go before” the people, is seen through the fabrication that one must “keep in step with” – “moving ahead with Jehovah’s organization”. JWs have been stumbled by their leaders’ vision of their own minds, to “go before” them, thoroughly convinced that this idol will lead them into salvation. (Deut 7:26; Jer 14:14; Matt 16:23; 2 Pet 2:1-3; Rev 2:14; Isa 57:14)  

 Idols do come in all sizes and forms, and it has been said from their own mouths…

"As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization."  Wt 1990/11/1 p. 26 

It was an act of physical and spiritual thievery to ask the people of Israel to contribute their gold for the making of the golden calf idol, even if they willingly handed it over.   Aaron succumbed to the pressure of the crowd’s fleshly desires. But how Aaron approached God in repentance concerning His failure to prevent idolatry, is not known.  Moses begged God for forgiveness on his behalf, and on behalf of the people.   (Exod 32:2-4,26, 30,31; Deut 9:18-20) 

Not so with the governing leaders. They continue on their path of growing greed and support of the abomination present in the elder body. (Mark 13:14; Matt 24:48-51; Dan 2:33,43; Rev 13:11,12; 17:3)

Every willing or begrudging contribution that is now mandatory to preserve and to build up the idol, is pure thievery. (Exod 20:3,4; Deut 4:23; Rom 16:17,18; Rom 1:25; 8:5; Mark 10:19;John 10:10)

 Every JW who submits to such pressure becomes the victim of spiritual abuse.  They are slaves to men and their earthly treasures. (1 Cor 7:23; Gal 1:10; Col 3:24; Col 2:8; Jude 1:4; Rev 13:10)

Both of these major comparisons to Israel’s unfaithfulness in the past, are linked to the present. The gradual removal of the holy priesthood, has led to the solid installation of the idol/organization through the exaltation of the man of lawless/elder body.  This “body” that produces ‘stinging’ judgments against God’s holy people, stands “where it doesn’t belong”.  (Mark 13:14; Rev 9:7-10; 11:1,2; 13:5-7; Ezek 2:6) 

In his prayer during the dedication of the temple he built for the name of God, King Solomon stressed the sovereignty of God, and the necessity of his servants to “walk in all His ways”,  keeping His commandments “with all their hearts”.   (1 Kings 8:23, 57,58) 

We do not “walk” in the statutes of men or those of an organization whose needs are no different than another earthly entity. We “keep in step” with the statutes of God through His Son, Jesus Christ. We observe only, the decrees Jesus fulfilled in his coming, and in his teachings. (Matt 15:9; 1 Tim 6:3-5)   (1 Kings 2:3; 6:12;Micah 6:8; John 8:12 Matt 22:36-40; 5:17,18; 24:35; Rom 13:10; 2 Thess 3:6)

The temple that Solomon built, was not to be worshipped.  1 Kings 8:27.  It was a house of prayer and sacrifices made for the atonement of sins; and where God graciously filled the temple with His glory and radiance.  Still, Solomon repeatedly stated that one’s prayers from the temple would be heard by God “in heaven, the place of your dwelling”.  (1 Kings 8:30,32,34,36; Gen 28:16,17)  Although God allowed His name to be on the temple as long as Israel was faithful, it was still the Almighty God who directed the nation of Israel, and not the temple where God’s Spirit rested.  (Exod 15:2; 20:2; Isa 43:11)

In contrast, it is the organization which bears the name “Jehovah”, (and its nonanointed elders) that is continually stressed as the guiding authority over the lives of JWs.   (Exod 23:13; Eph 5:15,16; Judges 10:13,14; Isa 46:5-9)

One of the hypocritical governing leaders who lives behind locked gates where men in a kiosk scrutinize all visitors arriving at their highly protected compound, stated to his listeners that God expects money to be given to the organization. Through these donations received, his fleshly desires are preserved; his prominence and power over the holy people and all JWs, remains intact. (Luke 4:5-7;Rom 8:5; Gal 5:16,17,24; Eph 4:20-24; 1 John 2:16; Col 3:5; 2 Tim 3:2; Jude 1:17,18)  

He stated, “Now, the fact is we never beg for money, but that’s not to say we can’t talk about money in Jehovah’s organization, the earthly part”.

Never beg for money?  When speaking of the future project on the gospels of Jesus, one governing partner said,  “In view of the large scope of this project we encourage you to make it a matter of prayer and please (said with lengthy emphasis), support it according to your circumstances”.

God has no need for an earthly organization, when Zion is built on the Body of Jesus Christ and God’s chosen “living stones” of His priestly kings. They are the “organization” that God has sanctioned since the first century. They are the temple/dwelling of God’s spirit. (Isa 2:2,3; Zech 41 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22,10; Rev 5:9,10; 1 Cor 12:27; 14:1)

So, why is this leader talking about money? The idol requires it, just as the idol in Moses’ day required people’s gold to create it. (1 Cor 10:7)  It can only exist if money is poured into it.  The leader admits, “Money has to be discussed in the last day, this system, meets a response in all things.”  We must ask then, what sets this organization apart from any other?  Where is God’s power and spirit in this apparently unusual “spirit-directed organization”? Where does the faith in God’s ability to provide for their needs, lie?  Their faith and trust is in the idol, and all idols need to be fed by the men who create them.  So the lie is fostered that God and the Father will love JWs, because they give their material possessions…to the idol. He used two scriptures to support this.

The first is Deut 16:16,17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut+16%3A16%2C17&version=NIV

What were the blessings brought before the Lord?  They were the “firstfruits” of the barley and wheat harvest, and of the olive and grape.  God blessed their plantings throughout the year leading to abundant harvests because of their obedience to His commandments. (Deut 16:13,15; 26:3-5; 30:9,10)   These feasts all held spiritual significance, which we find in Jesus’ presence on earth, his teachings, and God’s provision for redemption through his atoning sacrifice.  (Matt 1:23; 7:37,38; Rom 8:2; 1 Cor 5:7;15:20; Heb 4:15; Col 2:16,17; Mark 2:22) 

Money holds no spiritual significance to God, and cannot preserve one’s good standing before Him, or prove our love for Him. We are judged on our love and obedience to His Word in Jesus Christ. (Deut 7:11-13; Eccl 7:12; Hos 6:6; Matt 6:19,20,24; Col 3:1,2,5-7; 1 Tim 6:6-10)

He also cited 2 Cor 9:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+9%3A7&version=NIV

 Paul urged the uninhibited generous spread of the seed of truth, and the generous giving to the poor and suffering.  (2 Cor 9:10,8)  Please read 2 Cor 8:13-15 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+8%3A13-15&version=CSB -

Neither the sharing of and need of truth, nor physical provisions for the poor are met in the organization.  There is no fairness or equality with Bible truth in either regard, as men who live a worry-free comfortable life, breathe and propagate lying doctrines. (Prov 5:3,4,7-14; Heb 12:14,15; Rev 8:10,11; 18:7,8) 

 Pearl Doxsey:

We learn from God's own Word, about the sacrifices that He is pleased with. 

Three scriptures come to mind... 2 Cor 9:7-13; 8:11,12; Philemon 1:14

They contain the lesson that our gift is decided in our own heart, between us and God alone. No compulsion should be felt, but our gift is rooted in love and joy. God then blesses our charitable work, by supplying all we need to continue in it, while we also reap abundant blessing for ourselves. Through such a relationship with God's truth and the life that results, all, are refreshed, sustained, and built up. There is no sense of burden, comparison, competition, or failure. Such things come from the wicked one, and those who assist Satan to shackle men with a bondage to Idols.

Rules, standards, human expectations, and counting, do not serve the will, truth, or purpose of God (Matt 15:9; Mark 7:13).

Those things only serve the unlawful, worldly power and desires, of men, and the purpose of Satan.

"You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)

 “Service” - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/01/service.html

The poor and needy must provide not only for their own needs, but donate to the desires of the leaders, and to the needs of their idol. Using the example of the widow’s contribution to the temple in Jesus’ day, the speaker had the impudence to tell the poor, “So even when we’re poor we’re expected to give monetarily, it’s because we love Jehovah, love Jesus”   (Mark 12:41-44)

The Watchtower Corporation is laden with stock holdings and investments. The money they receive, have, spend, and invest, is of primary interest to its governors (Matt 6:21). 

The NMB version of the Bible states; "No man who wars, entangles himself with worldly business, because he wants to please him who has chosen him to be a soldier." (2 Tim 2:4). 

Jesus has chosen the members of his Elect, to battle with him against religious falsehood. (2 Tim 2:3,4; 2 Cor 10:3-5; Rev 17:14; Eph 6:11,12; 5:11). 

His faithful anointed will not prioritize or focus on, materialism (Matt 6:19-21,24,25,26,28-32).

The GB speaker’s comparison to the early temple in Jerusalem where God removed His Spirit for rejecting his Son, should certainly clue us in to the identity of today’s idol/”temple”, as “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization”.  This Jewish system was also corrupt; the Pharisees had added their own laws to the laws of God, which Jesus referenced as burdens put upon the people.  (Matt 11:28; 23:4;16:11,12) The division between the rich and the poor was widened under the Roman Gentile domination.  The widow dropped her coins into one of 13 chests marked for the donation’s use, (sound familiar?) whether it was for sacrifices, voluntary contributions for the poor, or mandatory obligations.   These chests were shaped like trumpets, with large funnels playing back the sound of the money dropping in.  Knowing this, brings more clarity to Jesus’ words in Matt 6:2. 

There was no balance stressed by Paul in 2 Cor 8:13-15.  If the widow dropped in “all she had to live on”, was she a recipient as a poor one, from the temple’s treasury?  For a certainty, the poor in the organization are not the recipients of its “treasury”.  (Isa 58:1,6-7; 2 Thess 3:7-9;1 Thess 2:9; James 2:1-7)

Jesus said, “Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”  (Mark 12:7)   This nonprofit organization (and he called it such) follows strict guidelines and codes when building their “Bethels”. They seek tax exempt status, which requires registration with the government.  They are in essence, under the management of the government by following certain regulations.  This is the crux of the GB’s statement that “money has to be discussed” and “meets a response in all things” in this system.  Solomon’s temple and its building was not influenced by a government, yet when God’s people sinned, outside nations obtained dominion and power over His people, Jerusalem, and the temple.  

Within this idolized nonprofit “spirit-directed organization”, God’s spiritual Temple has been dominated by a foreign nation – a “Gentile” take-over.  (1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2; Rev 13:4,7) Under the compulsion of God’s priests to remain silent, chained and branded by an organization of false doctrines, spiritual famine is pervasive; and a plague of corruption, disease and affliction of the heart, has come upon them and those in their company. (1 Kings 8:37-40; Ezek 14:3; Prov 23:6-8; Isa 29:7,8; Zech 10:2; Amos 8:11-13; Rev 2:9; 9:20; 13:7,16,17;16:2; 2 Thess 2:7-10) The congregations suffer in the spiritual sense; and in many areas of the world, the constant burden exists to give out of the few resources one has, expected contributions to the idol. 

Citing John 14:23 was a very desperate choice to give credence to the leader’s decrees, because Jesus’ words in general, condemned accumulating worldly riches and storing up treasures on earth.

Satan had offered Jesus earthly power, riches and authority over the “kingdoms of the world/earth”, but he rejected all of it. (Luke 4:5-7) He stated, “my kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36), so why would Jesus approve of men’s desires to establish his kingdom under his authority in this world, and attempt to put God’s name on it?  The Kingdom reign of Jesus Christ is one of “grace and truth”, far superior than any power, riches and authority this world has to offer. (John 1:14,17; Eph 1:19-21)

Please consider the understanding of today’s spiritual Temple as being the anointed priesthood where God’s spirit dwells. Only His decrees are written on their hearts. (Deut 6:4-8; 2 Cor 6:16; John 14:23; Rom 5:5;2 Cor 3:3; Heb 10:16)  

The anointed over the years have been taken captive by this Beast/organization. (Luke 22:31; 1 Pet 5:8; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10; 12:17) Those who have confronted it with truth in imitation of their Head, Jesus Christ, have faced persecution for their testimony of Jesus. (John 15:20; 16:2; 1 Pet 4:12,13; Rev 12:17;13:15; 6:9,11) The faithful “living stones”, made in the ‘image and likeness of God’, will bear the name of God and Jesus Christ in the Kingdom. (Rev 3:12) They and those who gather with them under Jesus' protection and care, will worship the Almighty Father in “spirit and truth”. (Gen 1:27; Matt 5:48; Col 3:10;Eph 5:7-10; Eph 4:24) (John 4:22-24)

https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/

Daniel Chapter Eleven, verses 31-45 

Armageddon 

"Mankind" / "Son of Man" / "Man' of Lawlessness" - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

 That being said, best to stay your blade regarding the United Nations because all it will take is one quote.

Nice that you linked the conversation.  As you said there, "It is unhealthy to continue with repetitive banter", SM.

Everything will come to light in its own time.  (Matt 10:26)

13 hours ago, BroRando said:

Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.

 

Accpecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior can add meaning to your life.

Dear BroRando, you live in a land of unreality. 

“Governing body”, eight men who “govern” - as governors would govern a state.  How is that done?  What power do they have?

"Govern" from Merriam Webster:

1a: to exercise continuous sovereign authority over especially : to control and direct the making and administration of policy in

The country was governed by a king.

b: to rule without sovereign power and usually without having the authority to determine basic policy (interesting!)

2aarchaic : MANIPULATE

b: to control the speed of (a machine) especially by automatic means

3a: to control, direct, or strongly influence the actions and conduct of

b: to exert a determining or guiding influence in or over

income must govern expenditure

to hold in check : RESTRAIN

was told to govern her emotions

4: to require (a word) to be in a certain case

5: to serve as a precedent or deciding principle for customs that govern human decisions

Intransitive verb

1: to prevail or have decisive influence : CONTROL

In all situations allow reason to govern.

2: to exercise authority

MANIPULATE, RESTRAIN, CONTROL

These words define the governing leaders. 

If Jesus is our leader, shouldn’t Jesus Christ take precedence in our lives? Shouldn’t his teachings “rule” our lives above and beyond the governing rulership of men?  Is it not true that these men set decrees outside of the Bible, that “govern human decisions”?  Yes! A. Morris admits to this!

When we speak Christ’s truth – TRUTH – Wt’s “governors” exercise their assumed sovereign power of authority, and direct those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their leader, to be spiritually “killed” – disfellowshipped.  (John 16:2; Rev 11:1-3,7; 13:11,12,15)

You will know when you are on the side of truth, when you experience the same.  

“Look, I’m sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as serpents and as innocent as doves. ¹⁷ Beware of them, because they will hand you over to local courts(judicial committees)  and flog you in their synagogues – (“congregations”). ¹⁸ You will even be brought before governors and kings because of me, to bear witness to them and to the Gentiles. ¹⁹ But when they hand you over, don’t worry about how or what you are to speak. For you will be given what to say at that hour, ²⁰ because it isn’t you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father is speaking through you.

²¹ “Brother will betray brother to death - disfellowshipped, and a father his child. Children will rise up against parents and have them put to death. ²² You will be hated by everyone because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. ²³ When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. For truly I tell you, you will not have gone through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. ²⁴ A disciple is not above his teacher, or a slave above his master. ²⁵ It is enough for a disciple to become like his teacher and a slave like his master. If they called the head of the house ‘Beelzebul,’ how much more the members of his household!”  Matt 10:25-13

 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

So you see, your governing body leaders have put themselves above Jesus Christ through their judgment against Jesus’ disciples. (Luke 22:24-27)  We have another spiritual fulfillment of what took place under the corrupt rule of the Pharisees.  Those part of the anointed Body of Christ must follow the same path that Jesus took - persecution from their own people. (John 15:20)  If they remain where you are, they are the foolish virgins buying their "oil"/spirit/food from wolves in sheep's clothing, a wicked slave.  (Matt 24:48-51; Acts 20:29; Rev 13:11,12)

 I answer only to the Father and the Son.  (Gal 1:10)

Should we obey men?