Witness

A true believer in Jesus Christ would not battle for legal spiritual rights. (John 4:23,24) They put their full trust in God and His Son. But JWs have established their "kingdom" in this world and thus, feel the need to fight for everything that will aid the development and preservation of, their kingdom. They fight for the organization's freedom of worship, and remove the freedom of worship of God's anointed priesthood within their walls. (no bonding together to worship and study the scriptures) An act of hypocrisy, I would say. An act of trampling down the Temple/dwelling of God. (Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; Gal 1:10) Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” John 18:36

You mean, the reason why Ray Franz was disfellowshipped? Well that was certainly the slimiest trick in the book. Or, the subsequent disfellowshipping of a person, who is seen associating with a disfellowshipped one. Yes, no doubt, slimy. The Wt. used Mr. Introvigne's expertise only for their targeted benefit. Money can buy the message they want announced. It appears they are also paying for advertising lately on news channels, with Robert Hendriks III as their media representative. Since I’ve been disfellowshipped, an old JW friend would only text me when in need of a "how-to" answer about something other than the spiritual, which she knew either I or my husband could give her. That was it. Other than that, I was shunned….until, they are now finding out just how slimy the organization really is.

The point is, he was hired to lobby for the Wt. Hired; given money to announce how JWs are persecuted. Does God need the help of the world at any time to fight His battles? If the persecution of JWs in Russia was really for the sake of Jesus Christ, must it be advertised and fought against? Or, should JWs accept the path of Christ, and walk humbly on that path? (Matt 16:24-26) But, JWs are not suffering for the sake of Christ. They are suffering for the sake of an organization, an idol. This is why the leadership must fight to save it. It is built with money, not with the Spirit of God. It uses money to fight its battles. (Exod 20:4,5; 32:8,4; Isa 57:13; Matt 22:36,37; Rom 1:21,22,25) At least JWs are not the victims of mass sterilization. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/china-conducting-mass-sterilization-muslim-minorities-amount-genocide/story?id=71519132

Massimo Introvigne, a lobbyist and a lawyer, called a “cult apologist” by some. How do JWs feel that their leadership must hire a lobbyist who defends Scientology as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massimo_Introvigne

I’m sure its because JWs are high profile, and appear very meek and clean cut. Catholics and Baptists blend in with all people. A person can be a Catholic and still be accepted as a gambler, a bar hopper, a smoker. Anything out of the understood ordinary for a JW, especially something like this murder, is brought to the attention of the community. I’m also sure most people in the world don’t realize that the leaders of the organization’s mantra is making sure that only the outside of the cup is clean. (Luke 11:39)

In your first statement, you begin by boasting about the persecution to come upon JWs. And then, make excuses for the sins of the organization, that have come to light...about child abuse. The other points I made, are not sins? Should we compare righteousness of all religions and say, well the WT's righteousness is better than most? Is that how God gauges righteousness where His people reside? A mother sends her child to school and tells him if you eat a piece of birthday cake, you will disappoint "Jehovah". What a guilt trip to put on a little child. Yet, Wt. sends its well educated lawyers to court to win a child abuse case, and the leadership feels justified in doing so, because no matter what, they must protect their riches. Do they feel that any of their actions disappoint God? Never. The burden of persecution is always on the sheep, who are persecuted because they listen to men living a well insulated life from the persecutions that their flock experiences. If we are to suffer for Jesus Christ's sake, we suffer by exposing falsehoods of our own people. This is what John the Baptist did, Jesus Christ and his apostles. We put our entire faith in only the Father and the Son and we ask for repentance in following false dogma and men who create it. Persecution is nothing to boast about, Tom. It is something to understand why it happens to God's people, who reside where the leadership's sins are just now coming to light. Revelation 18:4-8 is speaking to "my people" - God's elect/saints; but all who are where the "man of lawlessness"/elder body has rulership over the Temple/"living stones" of God, are to leave the organization. Otherwise, those sins that you say are milder than other religions/organizations, are what all JWs will be found sharing in. Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3

First of all, the people taken from the nations for God's name, are His chosen anointed since Christ. They, are to bear the name of God and Jesus Christ - not the name of an organization.(Isa 45:10-12; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 3:12;5:9,10) I am sure somewhere buried in Wt's history that truth can be found. "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:10 A. “righteousness’ sake” - In a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God. integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting Is it righteous to hide child abuse cases for years? Is it righteous to continue promoting a lie that GB members have doubts about, as JWI told us concerning 1914? To think that your leaders feared being disfellowshipped for exposing 1914 as wrong. Were they, are they, following in Christ’s footsteps who exposed lies and stood only for truth, or are they following the path of the crooked one? John 8:44 Is it righteous to lead a person to believe in a date that Armageddon will arrive, and then blame the person for going astray in their anticipating the fulfillment of that date? (Isa 9:16) Is it righteous to disfellowship individuals who keep their faith in God and Christ intact, yet reject the dreams of “organization”, which was none other than a “unique idea” to pursue, in Rutherford’s day? Is it righteous to shun individuals, caring not whether they live or die? Refusing to help a child who was baptized way too young, and fell into sin. Today's youths before they reach ten years old, are innocently being baptized into an organization. What will happen to them when they realize their own folly and leave? Will they be rejected by the likes of the people here, who have given your post an upvote, a "like", a "thank you"? Is it righteous to tell God’s priesthood under Jesus Christ that they must not bond together to study the word of God? (Dan 11:36,37; Rev 13:5-7) Is it righteous for elders to act as that priesthood/Temple of God? (Ezek 44:6-9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2) There are two types of persecution outlined in the Bible. Persecution put upon God’s wayward people for sinning (Deut 28:19-25); and persecution by one’s own people for standing up to the lies of men, and for upholding the truth in Christ. (John 15:18-20) Why is this organization persecuted? It is not for upholding the truth in Christ when its leaders are so good at creating falsehoods, speaking lies, hiding lies, hiding their sins, and shunning any who disagree with their doctrine. (John 16:2; Rev 13:15) By the way, speaking of doctrines of men, Jesus does not make new “rules” – an excuse for the GB to do so today. That, is another lie. We have the Bible where the word of God is all we need. The “rules” are set, not to be added to or taken away from. (Deut 4:2) Wt 2/2021 ….Headship - As our head, Jesus has the authority to make and to enforce rules that govern the conduct of individuals, of families, and of the entire congregation. (Gal. 6:2) But Jesus does more than just make rules. He feeds and cherishes each one of us.—Eph. 5:29. Under the headship of Christ Jesus, the members of the Governing Body provide helpful direction to organize Jehovah’s people worldwide. They appoint Branch Committee members and circuit overseers. (Eph. 4:7-13) In turn, circuit overseers appoint congregation elders. (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5) Etc., etc., etc., etc. More is said in this article about the GB and their lengthy responsibilities, than Jesus Christ himself. All of these needs that the GB have devised to run the organization, does require rules and regulations as any organization in the world does. But, do JWs really believe that uninspired men are hearing Jesus Christ telling them to make these new rules? Did Jesus Christ tell them they needed to revamp and organize their child abuse policies? If so, what took him so long? Does Jesus Christ tell them to create new doctrine? Or, as the GB admitted to, they have thought up doctrine and ideas, only to find out they were wrong. And those who leave such empty philosophy are the apostates? (Col 2:8) No. The apostates are those who have become slaves of men. (Gal 1:10; Rom 6:16) Maybe it is the spirit-directed idol that hears the new rules and regulations that must be enforced; such as controlling what God’s priests are allowed to study, and not to study. (Dan 11:38,39; Rev 13:1,2) Work hard so you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth. 16 Avoid worthless, foolish talk that only leads to more godless behavior. 17 This kind of talk spreads like cancer as in the case of Hymenaeus and Philetus. 18 They have left the path of truth, claiming that the resurrection of the dead has already occurred; in this way, they have turned some people away from the faith. 19 But God’s truth stands firm like a foundation stone with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and “All who belong to the Lord must turn away from evil.” 2 Tim 2:15-19 Persecution

The GB are like kids in a candy shop. They have a plethora of kingdom halls at their disposal. Sounds like they are in the process of trading up real-estate for Ramapo and their mega audio visual center. Maybe you need to tell the GB. As A. Morris just said in his latest video, "“Jehovah’s organization is on the move, and it will not be stopped by the pandemic, or anything else." If what you say happens, Ramapo may become a money pit.

"I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive." Rom 16:17,18 “I did not send the prophets, yet they ran; I did not speak to them, yet they prophesied." Jer 23:21

Because of a false sense of peace, safety, security found by JWs as members of “Jehovah’s organization”, the type and source of persecution against them, is always directed to those on the outside of the organization, and not inside where spiritual “Jacob” resides among “Gentiles”. (1 Thess 5:2-3) I’m not saying that JWs do not suffer persecution from governments. Although, if persecution against them exists outside, is it possible that it exists inside JW walls in the environment of sin? I believe no JW will say that discipline is needed – repentance of their own sins is needed, because they suffer from external sources. No JW will link the corruption that flows from the spiritual in-house throne of those who rule over them, with the persecution they face outside the organization. Although not announced, they will say, this is the great tribulation, and such suffering is to be expected! It makes you wonder why the announcement hasn't occurred. But, I am guessing that one reason is that the GB say it will take "years" to complete their projects of videos on the the gospels about Jesus. Are they so side-tracked in this work, they are completely forgetting about the great tribulation and Armageddon? Perhaps, they know the truth about who are, the target of the great tribulation. (Mark 14:13-20) When Israel suffered at the hands of other nations, it was because of their own sins. (Deut 31:17,18; Ps 44:17-24) Lamentations is the perfect example of suffering because of Israel’s sins. (Lam 2:8) JWs are not fighting on the side of righteousness, when their house, their organization is filled with unrighteousness. How blind, how foolish it is, to think that God is on their side, when His anointed people have allowed men to rule over them and replace His priesthood - His heritage, His chosen people. (Lam 1:10; 2:7; Ezek 44:6-9; Dan 11:36; Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10;1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2) It is God’s people that must look at their own sins. Psalm 94: Lord, God of vengeance— God of vengeance, shine! 2 Rise up, Judge of the earth; repay the proud what they deserve. 3 Lord, how long will the wicked— how long will the wicked celebrate? 4 They pour out arrogant words; all the evildoers boast. 5 Lord, they crush Your people; they oppress Your heritage. 6 They kill the widow and the resident alien and murder the fatherless. 7 They say, “The Lord doesn’t see it. The God of Jacob doesn’t pay attention.” 8 Pay attention, you stupid people! Fools, when will you be wise? 9 Can the one who shaped the ear not hear, the one who formed the eye not see? 10 The one who instructs nations, the one who teaches mankind knowledge— does He not discipline? 11 The Lord knows the thoughts of mankind; they are futile. 12 Lord, how happy is anyone You discipline and teach from your law 13 to give him relief from troubled times until a pit is dug for the wicked. 14 The Lord will not leave His people or abandon His heritage, 15 for the administration of justice will again be righteous, and all the upright in heart will follow it. 16 Who stands up for me against the wicked? Who takes a stand for me against evildoers? 17 If the Lord had not been my helper, I would soon rest in the silence of death. 18 If I say, “My foot is slipping,” Your faithful love will support me, Lord. 19 When I am filled with cares, Your comfort brings me joy. 20 Can a corrupt throne be your ally, a throne that makes evil laws? 21 They band together against the life of the righteous and condemn the innocent to death. (spiritual “killing”/disfellowshipping – Rev 11:1-3,7;13:15) 22 But the Lord is my refuge; my God is the rock of my protection. 23 He will pay them back for their sins and destroy them for their evil. The Lord our God will destroy them. What's wrong with "peace and security"?

Matt 24:25 – “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” Mark 8:38 – “If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.” Luke 4:32 – “They were amazed at his teaching, because his words had authority.” Luke 6:47-49 – “As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. 48 They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.” I agree, but here is the confusion: This question expects one to dedicate their life to the organization and to the doctrine of the organization - WORDS of men, whatever doctrine may come or go. No one, as stated below, should dedicate themselves to a religion or an organization. This is truth, but the LIE is practiced – a lie that is doctrine of men and not the words of Jesus Christ. 2 Tim 4:3 - "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." The Truth is found in the words of Jesus Christ. 2 Tim 2:15 - Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

So, what the early disciples heard and followed, as the command of Jesus Christ, would identify them as serving “false religion”. You may want to unravel your own lie. I am not saying that “every” word has to be spoken, but when the thrust of the command disintegrates, and a new “command” takes its place – a false religion becomes very evident. Wt 1955/7/1 p. 411 - "A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit." Wt 1966 Oct 1 pp.603-604 - "We do not dedicate ourselves to a religion, nor to a man, nor to an organization. Oh, but times have changed! JWs DO dedicate themselves to both a religion and an organization. Wt 1985/7/1 p. 30 - “On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?” The Holy Spirit is not mentioned. No one then, was baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit. “The second is: Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism." Watchtower 1985 Jun 1 p.30 There. Christ’s command has disintegrated. This is far from the “right heart condition” needed, to undergo the baptism that Christ outlined to his disciples. It is the right heart condition that men require, for initiation into false religion. These questions that one must agree to, is none other than deception. If there are excuses made for the questions, then whose commands are being upheld? Those of powerful men, or those of Jesus Christ? If a JW says, well I dedicated my life to God and Christ, and not to an organization"; then I ask, why are you a JW, and an "associate"/member of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?

I really don't enjoy responding to your flammable messages, but you have just put your foot in your mouth, by aiding in validating JW idolatry. This is the dedication made during JW baptism ceremony, which is IDOLATRY: “Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with Jehovah’s organization?” Is this organization the path of salvation? Is it so sacred that it requires acknowledgement of your identity and dedication? Your Wt quote says one should dedicate their lives to God. Looks like their is a confusing issue here. Why is it necessary to mention the organization during baptism? Does the idol need to be acknowledged? This isn't what Jesus decreed. We can let another Wt quote, clear it up: "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." wt/90/11/1 What did Jesus say to do? What were his words? Matt 28:19,20 If one follows what Christ commanded, they are not the ones blaspheming against God's Holy Spirit.

That if you aspire to be part of ‘massive building projects’, because “yes, building is a legacy of God’s people” (from the video explaining the making of Nehemiah), then you are serving "Jehovah" in a righteous manner? And if a JW aspires to do these things, he (particularly) may find himself at the top of the hierarchy, where he can join the eight others to live out their building dreams – the work of their hands? Kenneth Cook Jr., an enigma when it comes to his anointing, is the latest to make the cut! These examples of aspirations are much more important than to speak truth – also a mysterious enigma that comes and goes with the wind. "House of Jacob, come and let’s walk in the Lord’s light. 6 For you have abandoned your people, the house of Jacob, because they are full of divination from the East and of fortune-tellers like the Philistines. They are in league with foreigners. (“Gentile” elder body ruling over the anointed Temple members 2 Thess 3,4) 7 Their land is full of silver and gold, and there is no limit to their treasures; their land is full of horses, and there is no limit to their chariots. 8 Their land is full of worthless idols; they worship the work of their hands, what their fingers have made. 9 So humanity is brought low, and each person is humbled. Do not forgive them! 10 Go into the rocks and hide in the dust from the terror of the Lord and from his majestic splendor. 11 The pride of mankind will be humbled, and human loftiness will be brought low; the Lord alone will be exalted on that day. Isa 2:7-11 This is from Isa chapter 2, where it states that the “law” will go out from Zion; where people will stream to God’s Temple. (Isa 2:2,3;27:12,13) That Temple is built with “living stones” of faithful ones of “Jacob”, of “Israel”. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) Yet, as we see fulfilled in this prophesy for our day, the major House of Jacob is reveling in the work of their hands. (Rom 1:25; Rev 13:4) “Israel, even if your people were as numerous as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction has been decreed; justice overflows.” Isa 10:22 “ Then the kings of the earth, (Rev 1:5) the nobles, the generals, the rich, the powerful, and every slave and free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 because the great day of their wrath has come! And who is able to stand?” Rev 6:15-17 The “mountains” and the “rocks”: the anointed are “living stones” of Mt Zion; the “Gentile” elders and prominent leaders are “rocks”/exalted ”mountains”/rulers of a “mountain-like organization”. (Rev 8:8; Zech 4:6,7 Sorry, got carried away, but you are right on. YHVH's Genuine Mountain

Just another thought. Did the Wt. retract their "news" (hogwash) about God sending a typhoon to Micronesia? I haven't seen a retraction as of yet.

@TrueTomHarley, If you'll remember at the outset, I said: If I was weaselly, I would not have brought the correction to this forum that the Australian made, as soon as I saw it. These words, I will always stand by: And: Mark 4:14 - "For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open." For you, is it more important that article turned out to be wrong than the whole reason that the Wt dragged its feet before joining the redress scheme? Were you quiet when you learned that the WT caved at the last minute simply because they would lose money otherwise? Did you write about it? Did you make excuses for them? The victims do not matter. News, truly it is not always trustworthy. Much like the news from Micronesia a while back, in need of sand to build a kingdom hall. Next thing you know, God sends a typhoon and lo and behold...sand in abundance! But, your god must be fickle, since another typhoon took the lives of JWs who took refuge in a kingdom hall in the Philippines. Perhaps if you write about it, you can make sense of the contradiction. Just maybe, you will spot the false news, now that more news about typhoons and kingdom halls, has emerged.

Really. I wonder what your definition of "apostate" is; someone who rejects the Wt, or someone who rejects God and Christ. Or, do you meld the two together which defines the person leaving the organization as unable to lead a moral or religious life?

UPDATE! Correction from The Australian to yesterday’s story suggesting ACNC had withdrawn Watchtower’s charity status. This was false. (Article behind paywall, but someone sent me the content below) https://www.theaustralian.com.au/search-results CORRECTION: If any readers understood an earlier version of this article as suggesting the ACNC had withdrawn Watchtower’s charitable status, The Australian withdraws that suggestion. The Jehovah’s Witnesses say they have resolved legal action with Australia’s charity watchdog. after it threatened to revoke their tax-exempt status in November last year. Watchtower ­director Terry O’Brien said the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission confirmed on April 14 that they would not be revoking the organisation’s charity status and that the matter had been closed. Mr O’Brien said The Australian’s suggestion that the ACNC had revoked their charitable status was false. SEE CONVERSATION HERE:

What will become of this forum once Cesar Chavez/Billy the Kid/Allen Smith/Felix the Cat/....etc... ...finally explodes?

Anyone can make a court case and still lie, still cover their sins. See the video. Firstly, if the Wt is hiding pertinent information, and it is found out, would the treatment doled out on them, be unfair? Wt fights tooth and nail, whether they are right or wrong. 1 Cor 6:7 - Actually, if you are bringing lawsuits against each other, it is already a defeat for you. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?

I didn't write the heading. I provided the link where you can find it.

"For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and nothing concealed that will not be brought to light." Mark 4:22 Then perhaps they could be transparent, instead of "opaque". What do they have to hide?

How is it, you can say... "Matter of fact, knowing such dates and understanding them can make one more accountable to Jehovah. Serving Jehovah with a Full Heart no matter what date comes and goes should be our Priority." But anyone who calls you on your use of dates and calculations, gets this...

Okay then. I guess we'll see if your "fruit" remains - if it proves to be true; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 🙂 1 John 4:1

Who is it, that has the Holy Spirit causing 4Jah2me to sin against? The GB? No, they told us they are not inspired. The organization itself? According to Rev 13:15, it is a false prophet that breathes spirit into the Beast of Rev 13:1,2. Thus the Beast/organization becomes "spirit-directed". There is only one organization with a "false prophet" that I know of, which touts to be "spirit-directed", and that spirit is not Holy Spirit. 1 Tim 4:1 Teachings by anointed give proof of their source; either in demonic spirit or in Holy Spirit. The "fruit", teachings sourced in the spirit of Jesus Christ, cannot rot, be tossed away, or hidden away...it cannot originate from the minds of men. NLV - "Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’” Matt 15:9 It cannot be calculated and assumed that it is right. It must remain - last - and be based solely on the words of Jesus Christ. Matt 7:15-20; John 15:16 If a JW cannot discern the tree that they "eat" from as good or bad, then he or she is suffering from a delusion. 2 Thess 2:9-12 What is the worst sin the Wt has done?