Witness

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He set the date of the end at 2060. Be there and you can razz him as a hypocrite and liar, as you do the GB here.

He wouldn't be the first barking dog in the neighborhood, and most definitely, not the last.

4 hours ago, Pudgy said:

1.)   About 350 years ago, Sir Isaac Newton knew that there were two classes ... those of the "heavenly hope", and those of the "great crowd".

2.) Jehovah's Witnesses figured it out about 86 years ago.

 

 

Maybe Sir Isaac Newton was anointed.

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Someone says, “but I want to talk to Jesus.” Rather than be guided by scripture which, strangely or not, seems to make no allowance for it,

Where is the scripture that makes no allowance for it?

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Yeah—I don’t really have a problem with it, though it’s not occurred to me to do it myself.

NOW you don't have a problem with it?  Even though apparently there is no scripture that makes allowance for it?

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It’s enough to make a guy heave. 

Jesus is the Word, the Logos. John 1:1    He has been speaking to people since mankind was created.  He is the representative of the word of God.  It was he who spoke God’s word to Moses, and it was he who was one of the three angels that visited Abraham before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah.  It was he who appeared to Joshua.  It was he who spoke to Paul when he was struck with blindness, and Paul spoke back to him.  (Exod 3:5; Josh 5:15; Gen 18:1,2; Acts 9:4-6)

Rutherford, at one time encouraged worship to Jesus, and then began to teach the opposite. One has to ask why.  Who is it that is at war with Jesus?  Who would rather we not speak to the Son of God?  (Gen 3:15; Eph 6:12; 1 Tim 4:1)   The only people who are telling JWs not to speak to Jesus Christ, are men - the leaders in the Watchtower.  

"The LORD acquired me at the beginning of his creation, before his works of long ago. 23 "I was formed before ancient times, from the beginning, before the earth began. 24 "I was born when there were no watery depths and no springs filled with water.

"Before the mountains were established, prior to the hills, I was given birth -- 26 "before he made the land, the fields, or the first soil on earth. 27 "I was there when he established the heavens, when he laid out the horizon on the surface of the ocean,

when he placed the skies above, when the fountains of the ocean gushed out, 29 when he set a limit for the sea so that the waters would not violate his command, when he laid out the foundations of the earth. 30 I was a skilled craftsman beside him. I was his delight every day, always rejoicing before him. 31 I was rejoicing in his inhabited world, delighting in the children of Adam.  Prov 8:22-31

 “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For everything was created by him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities -- all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and by him all things hold together.”  Col 1:15-17

I am so sorry that JWs are prevented by men with smooth convincing words on their tongue, from approaching the Word of God, Jesus Christ.  It took polished, well-crafted words to change the whole concept of worshipping Jesus, into proclaiming it a sin against God.

My companion attacks his friends.
    He breaks his promise.
²¹ His talk is as smooth as butter.
    But he has war in his heart.
His words flow like olive oil.
    But they are like swords ready for battle.  Ps 55:20,21

25 minutes ago, xero said:

It just feels wrong to not talk to your Lord and Savior.

Truthfully, I am touched by your expressions.  I hope you will consider the balanced view of an anointed one, other than those of your leaders:

Question:  "In light of Stephen praying to Jesus, at Acts 7:59; is it proper to pray to Jesus?"
---
My Reply:

Imagine that Jesus is our father (Isa 9:6) and Yhvh is our grandfather.

There is no distinction between fathers and grandfathers, in the Bible (John 8:39), so all ancestors, were called "Father". 

So when Jesus taught us to pray, he called his Father, our Father (Matt 6:9) even though in a sense, he is our grandfather, because Jesus is the direct father (Isa 9:6; John 1:4).

We have a relationship with both fathers. We also have a relationship with our spiritual mother. (Gal 4:26; 1 Thess 2:7; Gal 4:19)  

 When we have a loving relationship with those who are responsible for our care, do we not speak openly to each one of them?

There are times when we need to speak to our father...

other times when we want to speak directly to our grandfather (through the name of Jesus)...

and times when we need to talk with our mother.  (The faithful anointed under the New Covenant "woman")

It was the mindset of JWs, that gave us the rigid idea that we should be cut off from speaking to our mother and father... but only speak to our grandfather, by name ("Je-hovah" (which name belongs to the Destroyer).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/11/who-is-destroyer.html

How interesting! How well would a child do... who could not speak to it's parents... but only to an outside impostor who sought to mislead and destroy them? 

My point, is that whoever it is that you need to speak with, that is the one you should pray to.

Love in Christ,

Pearl

 How To Pray

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Answer this. Why Would God find it necessary to include in scripture, that people should pick among themselves 7 men full of spirit in Acts 6?

I remember when you used that argument when 7 GB were ruling.  Now, it's 8.  Oops!

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Where's your solid proof, that the gentile times didn't start in 607BC and ended in AD1914. I haven't seen this so-called "solid proof" that you, now, promote.

This is all I'm saying about 1914 for the benefit of those with eyes that see and ears that hear.  (Isa 29:18)

Do birth pains follow a birth?  Your governing leaders seem to think so.

After God’s Messianic kingdom was born in the heavens at the close of the Gentile Times in 1914, Satan the Devil and his army of demon angels were cast down in defeat from heaven to the vicinity of this earth. Wt 76/12/15

What were those events from 1914 onward, according to what Jesus said in his prophecy? Why was the “end” “not yet” after those initial events?⁷ As in the case of nineteen centuries ago, the international war, the food shortages, the pestilences and earthquakes, were a “beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matt. 24:8) 

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Gentile Times, when secular archeology suggests King Jehoiakim started in 610/9 BC and three years later, 607/6BC Judah and Jerusalem was met with a destruction campaign.

Today's "Gentile times" have NOT ended.  “Gentiles” in the form of the elder body presently trample the anointed priesthood and Temple of God in the organization. Matt 24:15; Dan 11:31,32,36; 2 Thess 2:4; Rev 11:1-3; Eccl 10:5-7

 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

 Jesus was established as king in the first century.  Ps 110:1,2; 1 Pet 3:22; Matt 28:18; 1 Cor 15:25,24; Eph 1:20-23

15 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

You didn't answer the question. The apostles were inspired by God's Holy Spirit. I recall when Jesus rebuked Peter. Were those men perfect? Didn't the Pharisees think of Jesus as a false prophet? Seems to me, people also felt Paul was a false prophet, especially after persecuting Christians.

But we know by their teachings that they were not false prophets. Their teachings have remained down to this day.   We also know by the teachings of the WT's leaders that they ARE false prophets.  

False prophets do not derive their prophesy through inspiration from God.  They derive this inspiration to deceive, from the evil one.  

We have solid proof that your leaders are false teachers/false prophets, just as we have solid proof that Jesus and the apostles are genuine teachers of truth.

We recognize both groups by their "fruits", of which a massive amount of your leader's fruits have ended up in the trash, as @Srecko Sostar has brought to our attention.  (John 15:1-8; Matt 7:15-19)

Your leader's fruits have not remained, even for the brief time period the organization has been in existence. 

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."  John 15:16

3 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Were these inspired men appointed by God, perfect? What do you think of Arron when he made the golden calf for the people to worship? How about King David? Should I go on?🤔

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

These inspired men, were sent by God.  None of them, were false prophets who deceived the "elect"/saints/anointed.

Matt 24:24;Mark 13:22,20; Rev 13:1,2,11,12; 16:13-16

19 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Hmm! You didn't answer the question. We know the decedents of Jacob in Judah keep the former alive. Jesus sacrifice needed to be accepted by God. Does this mean you know when that was done?

What did Micah 5 declare? Also, what is the symbolism of the remnant of spiritual Jacob?

Are you suggesting in between the time before God accepted Jesus sacrifice, he was an illegitimate son of David? Why would Christ then lie to the other sheep?

You consider yourself to be "anointed". By what means, as a literal Jew, since that's the implication you are giving. If so, who else comprises the "anointed" with the literal Jew in modern day Israel?

 

More than half of what say doesn't make much sense to me.  But, "learn" who spiritual Israel is.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200027356

8 hours ago, Anna said:

 @Witness all your criticism is about the imperfections of man. You might as well criticize all those who failed in Bible times as well. Criticize Moses for his presumtiousness, criticize Aaron for his weakness and excuses, criticize Job for his wrong thoughts, criticize David for his lack of control, criticize Jonah for his disobedience, criticize all of Jesus' disciples.

These inspired men, were sent by God.  None of them, were false prophets who deceived the "elect"/saints/anointed.

Matt 24:24;Mark 13:22,20; Rev 13:1,2,11,12; 16:13-16

8 hours ago, Anna said:

You are like a modern day Diotrephese.

"I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us. Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church."

Diotrephes was instigating disfellowshipping.  Who does this today?  Who calls anyone who refuses their false doctrine, "despicable apostates"?  Who, before Christ arrives, has decided they are "faithful and discreet"?  The GB are the preeminent ones, lording it over all of Christ's brothers.  Was John going to let Diotrephes get away with it?

Open your eyes, Anna.  You once said that although 1914 was a difficult doctrine for you to accept, you wouldn't make waves in the congregation concerning it.  If your heart knew it was false, why wouldn't you stand for truth?  It is a core lying doctrine of the organization. 

"Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God. 

Demetrius has a good testimony from all, and from the truth itself. And we also bear witness, and you know that our testimony is true."

3 John 9-12

God does not expect us to settle for lies.  

The account of the marriage feast, and the parable of the foolish and wise virgins, both show that only a remnant of the anointed are sealed.  Rev 20:9; 12:17; Isa 1:9; Amos 7:5; Luke 17:26-28-30; 1 Pet 3:20 

17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Why do “divinely provided aids” end up in the trash?

Thank you for the video, and I appreciated your comment. 

“And further, my son, be admonished by these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is wearisome to the flesh.”  Eccl 12:11

Surrounding that text is the description of the wise “Preacher” seeking acceptable words, and what was written (by him) was upright – words of truth.  After the above verse, the conclusion was made to keep God’s commandments; and, every piece of work – written work of words – will be brought into judgment. 

“Including every secret thing, whether good or bad.”  Eccl 12:14

Should the truth be wearisome to the flesh or refreshing as the living water that Jesus offers? (John 4:10) Are JWs ever disappointed that their “truth” ends up in the trash? I wonder if they care.

 G Jackson made a recent comment about the mind’s “symbolic pathways”. To paraphrase, he said when we have new thoughts, new concepts, pathways form in the mind.  They become more solid when we think of them.  The pathways become easier to “walk along”.  He gives the example of someone whacking their way through a jungle.  Then he says, in personal study and meditation, we shouldn’t always look for new things.

What things?

He states, “sometimes we might say, well I’ve read that publication already, I don’t need to reread it.  Yes, you do.  Why?  Because, just because you cut a path in your mind through the jungle doesn’t mean to say that that path is always going to remain easy to pass through. No, it’s good for us to go back again and go over and over the same things.” 

Why would we go over and over a publication that may end up in the trash?  

The GB member didn’t mention going over and over the Bible, the source of truth, where keys to wisdom continually bring us new understanding.  Shouldn’t we always look for new thoughts in God’s Word? 

What he is explaining is the cult tactic to drive home lies that are wearisome to the flesh, to the mind, and to the spirit. 

Brainwashing:: Cult leaders are known to repeat various lies and distortions until members find it difficult to distinguish between reality and cult life. 

...or between truth and lies.

https://www.onlinepsychologydegree.info/what-to-know-about-the-psychology-of-cults/

"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”  Matt 12:37

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

How does this correlate with the NEW covenant? How can today's Israel be under the old covenant as the remnant? That's what they believe, are you saying, you also believe that, and excuse Christ like they have?

Don't you realize that the words of the prophets are relative to the last days as well? 

but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.  Rev 10:7

5 hours ago, Kick_Faceinator said:

Are the remnant of Israel the chosen covenant and the survivors of the house of Jacob the unchosen? Or do both groups refer to the chosen covenant?

Oh man, it's hard to give a one sentence, even two sentence answer to this!

Well, scripture tells us that Jacob is another name for Israel. (Gen 32:27,28)

There a few representations that can be made.

 I look at the kingdom to come, as a family. The first children born into the Kingdom, and the first who are bought by the blood of Christ, are the anointed who have, through affliction and refinement, proven faithful and obedient to his teachings. (Mark 14:24; John 15:20,21; 16:33; Rom 4:13; Rev 3:21; 5:9,10)    As the older siblings of the family, their role is to watch out for their younger siblings not anointed.  In imitation of their Head, Jesus, and as members of his Body, they also “sacrifice” their life for their younger siblings, who are the final “promised seed”. (Gen 17:1,2)  This plays out by the priesthood of “kings” teaching and guiding God’s future children on earth and under the guidance of Jesus. (Mal 2:7) (Gen 28:10-15; John 1:51)   They are called “trees” that provide “healing to the nations”.  (Ps 1:3; Zech 4:11,14; Matt 7:17,20: Rev 11:4;22:2)    This healing is wisdom from God and Jesus Christ. (Prov 4:5-9)

Jesus was the first promised seed of the covenant made with Abraham. (Gal 3:16)  We are aware that Jesus established another promise, the New Covenant which is represented as a “woman”…and at its fulfillment  when it also produces a “seed”, (John 12:24) this mother becomes the source of life for future promised seeds. (Gal 4:24,28) Jesus is the greater Adam and described as an “eternal Father” in Isa 9:6.  His “Bride” is the new Eve, bringing life to the rest of the children of God.  (Isa 60:1-5)

So, those under this promise before fulfilled, are the anointed. (Gal 4:26) Yet, all children of the Kingdom benefit from the New Covenant.  When an anointed is sealed while on earth, those not anointed who have turned to Jesus Christ for understanding, are directed by Holy Spirit to the “Marriage Feast”. (Matt 22:1-14)  God determines the condition of their heart and gives these ones to Jesus to look out for, to feed spiritually, through members of his promised sealed Bride, until the Kingdom arrives. (John 6:44;13:20)

 At this feast, the true story is told of how the Kingdom will arrive. Clarity, clear waters of truth, flow from the Temple/Zion of God. (John 7:38; Rev 22:1,2,17; 19:19) (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22)    The feast is the pouring out of understanding (of Revelation, which “reveals” its meaning) for all future children in the Kingdom, those of the anointed and those not anointed, who choose to accept this wisdom.  I am referring to those in the last days.  We know that there are many who have died who will be resurrected. (Matt 22:32; John 5:25,28,29)

We are all equal, but not all will have the same responsibility as God’s children in the Kingdom, just as in the nation of Israel.  At that time, the priests were chosen purposely to care for the needs of the children of God.  This was a “copy and shadow” of things to come.  (Heb 8:5)

Besides administering justice (2 Chron 19:8-11; Heb 8:10), it seems very fitting that the Bride/priests of Jesus will be providing spiritual “healing” in the form of God's wisdom, to the nations.  (Rev 22:1-5)

“According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, medicine and religion were closely connected for Jews in ancient times. Priests were “the custodians of public health,” and Jews in biblical times regarded the physician as “the instrument through whom God could effect the cure.”  (Lev chapter 13-15)

Who Are The Fine Trees?

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

The GB now "starts to beat his fellow slaves "  (Matthew 24 :49

 

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

There would be no more crying 'Wolf' because the True anointed would wait for true instructions from Christ through Holy Spirit.

Isa 10:20 - "On that day the remnant of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no longer depend on the one who struck them, but they will faithfully depend on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel."

1 hour ago, Anna said:

There is a reason why prophet is in quotation marks.

And what would that be?  Is it because...This “prophet” is an organization of people, led by false prophets?

Definition:  “a person who predicts the future- a prophet of doom”

“The definition of a prophet is someone who teaches or spreads the word of God, or is someone who claims to make predictions about what will happen in the future”

"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them." Awake! 1968 Oct 8 p.23

Anyone who prophesies falsely is a false prophet; thus your organization and its leaders are false prophets, even still.  

g93 3/22 p. 3

THE story is told of a boy who watched the sheep of the villagers. To stir up a bit of excitement, one day he cried out, “Wolf! Wolf!” when there was no wolf. The villagers rushed out with clubs to drive off the wolf, only to find that there was none. It was such great fun that later on the boy repeated his cry. Again the villagers rushed out with their clubs, only to discover that it was another false alarm. After that a wolf did come, and the boy sounded the warning, “Wolf! Wolf!” but the villagers dismissed his cry as another false alarm. They had been fooled too often.

So it has become with those who proclaim the end of the world. Down through the centuries since Jesus’ day, so many unfulfilled predictions have been made that many no longer take them seriously.

Does the failure of such predictions to come true convict as false prophets those who made them, within the meaning of Deuteronomy 18:20-22? That text reads: “The prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: ‘How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?’ when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak.” 

There are some who make spectacular predictions of the world’s end to grab attention and a following, but others are sincerely convinced that their proclamations are true. They are voicing expectations based on their own interpretation of some scripture text or physical event. They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah’s name. Hence, in such cases, when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets such as those warned against at Deuteronomy 18:20-22. In their human fallibility, they misinterpreted matters.

We can see the Wt is trying to remove itself from being labeled “false prophets”. Does this mean that God also has turned a blind eye to their many failed predictions as they have done?

The leaders of “Israel” and all anointed (New Jerusalem/holy city) are to bear the name of God, symbolically. (Jer 25:29; Dan 9:18)  Anything that comes out of their mouths is to be in truth with Jesus Christ’s teachings. But are they?  Jesus tells us that we can detect the false teachers/prophets from the genuine teachers he has sent, by what comes out of their mouth, what “fruit”/teachings they have produced.  (Matt 7:15-19)  In Matt 7:15, Jesus calls them “false prophets" - "ravaging wolves". 

The second key to labeling the leaders of the organization as false prophets is their “voicing expectations based on their own human interpretations.”  God calls these ones, false prophets, because they are “prophesying” and filling their hearers with false hopes…as well as grabbing the attention and a following of those witnessed to, as in the house-to-house work. 

“This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord.”  Jer 23:16

“Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. ²¹ For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”  2 Pet 1:20,21

Can an organization claim to be guided by Holy Spirit when every prophesy made, was at the will of a human and not the will of God?  

 ^“Offer yourself as a role model of good actions. Show integrity, seriousness, ⁸ and a sound message that is above criticism when you teach, so that any opponent will be ashamed because they won’t find anything bad to say about us.”  Titus 2:7-9

It is a lie that the WT has never called itself "prophets".  Wt. 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'

False Prophets:  Malachi 3:18 - http://pearl-distinction.blogspot.com/

3 hours ago, xero said:

The publications themselves along with the publishers don't claim to be prophets.

The have made that claim...

"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"
These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?
... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses.
... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the "prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom." Wt. 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'

Think about it, you come from a long line of prophets!  They must have been gearing up for **1975** when this was written, which is probably why they don't make that claim today. 

Luke 21:8 "He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘**The due time** has approached.’ Do not go after them."

10 hours ago, xero said:

Of course rather than focusing on their own offensive, disgusting behavior from Jehovah's standards, they presume to be clean. In this presumption they are the filthiest of them all and the most disgusting.

You seem to emulate the opinion of your leader, Tony Morris:

“The final end of God’s enemies.  It can be very encouraging, albeit sobering…(Ps 37:20) Since they’re Jehovahs enemies, and Jehovah is our best friend, that means they’re our enemies. How we look forward to these enemies of Jehovah, our enemies vanishing like smoke.   

Fire would be a suitable means of eliminating such refuse.  What the fire would not consume the maggots would.  Now, I don’t know if you know much about maggots, you see a whole bunch of them…it’s not a pleasant sight; but what a fitting picture of the final end of all of God’s enemies. 

Sobering yet something we look forward to.

…they’re finally gonna be gone, all these despicable enemies that have just reproached Jehovah’s name, destroyed, never ever to live again.  Now its not that we rejoice in someone’s death, but when it comes to God’s enemies, finally, they’re out of the way…especially these despicable apostates who at one point had dedicated their life to God and then they joined forces with Satan the devil, the chief apostate of all time.” 

The match trick followed.  His words slurred a few times during his speech.   I'm sure there's a very valid reason for that.   Perhaps he should take your advice and focus on his own offensive, disgusting behavior deviating from God's standards, presuming to be clean and already "saved", I'll add.  

I do believe he means those  who “at one point” had dedicated their lives to the organization.  Yet, it is very true, once many people are done with the Wt., they become atheists.  They had enough of oppressive religion built on lies.  

13 hours ago, Kick_Faceinator said:

Not really. Somewhere down the line watchtower got mixed up in thinking their organization can offer the same salvation as Jesus Christ. According to the Bible, it’s only Jesus Christ who can save. “Only Jesus has the power to save! His name is the only one in all the world that can save anyone” Acts 4:12 [CEV]

Right before Peter said those words, he told the people…

Jesus is

“‘the stone you builders rejected,
    which has become the cornerstone.’  Acts 4:11

The organization is observable, and the leadership’s visibility is well seen through their broadcasts.  They magnify themselves and their great building attempts; all in the name of “Jehovah”.  There is promise of a token contribution to Jesus by a coming video production on his life.  Yet, the organization also explained that it felt there was too much emphasis made on the name of Jesus in the early years, so a change to more emphasis on the name, “Jehovah” was established.  What audacity.  There is no comparison of the early apostles’ teachings about Christ, to the teachings of the organization’s leaders. 

So, where is the chief cornerstone?  Is Jesus the cornerstone of a physical organization? He is the cornerstone of God’s spiritual Temple, built with “living stones”. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22) How disgusting to think that Jesus would be proud of earthly possessions – the same possessions that Satan offered him in the wilderness.  (Matt 6:21; Luke 4:5-7)

The chief cornerstone of the organization are false christs – false teachers/prophets.  (Matt 24:24,11-13; Luke 21:8)

How I wish JWs would turn to Christ and reject these deceitful men.  As you say, it is Jesus who grants us salvation through obedience to him.  But JWs obey what and who they physically see.  

Do we really want to stand before Christ during judgment to hear him say, “I never knew you” because we rejected him as the chief cornerstone of the Temple built on his body?  (Matt 7:21-23)

The stone the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone;
23 the Lord has done this,
    and it is marvelous in our eyes.
24 The Lord has done it this very day;
    let us rejoice today and be glad.  Ps 118:22-24

"the builders rejected"  

How telling is that!  The builders are busy building Ramapo with slave labor and treasures on earth!

Glory

1 hour ago, xero said:

If you could study Hemingway's style and try to copy that, maybe someone might listen. You jabber on and on. It's like nails on a chalkboard going through anything you've posted. I say this with all due respect and when I say "nails on a chalkboard" I mean that in a good way.

🙂  I hated that sound when I was a kid.  But the sound of false prophesy and false teachings are even worse in my ears. It is either tolerated, or not heard – not recognized as scripture defines it; or, it is rejected and proclaimed verbally why it is rejected.  (Deut 18:20-22)  (Isa 58:1; Rev 8:13)

What you say, reminds me of Isa 30:

“What sorrow awaits my rebellious children,”
    says the Lord.
“You make plans that are contrary to mine.
    You make alliances not directed by my Spirit,
    thus piling up your sins.

Now go and write down these words.
    Write them in a book.
They will stand until the end of time
    as a witness
⁹ that these people are stubborn rebels
    who refuse to pay attention to the Lord’s instructions.
¹⁰ They tell the seers,
    “Stop seeing visions!”
They tell the prophets,
    “Don’t tell us what is right.
Tell us nice things.
    Tell us lies.
¹¹ Forget all this gloom.
    Get off your narrow path.
Stop telling us about your
    ‘Holy One of Israel.’”  Isa 30:1,8-11

1 hour ago, xero said:

Opposers wouldn't know squat about the Bible if there wasn't an organization to superintend its preservation and transmission to the present.

1 hour ago, xero said:

An organization or even a person can be USED by Jehovah AND that person may be approved by Jehovah or disapproved by him.

It looks like you are amending your idea somewhat from the first statement.  

Noah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, the minor prophets, John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, the apostles.  These were opposers who spoke against the majority, cutting to the chase by proclaiming the sins of the world around them - the sins of their own people.

None of them had money, none answered to an established earthly organization. None were waited on daily by servants who provided all of their needs, like your organization’s leaders. None of them dressed up in the finest clothing.   But, all were spiritual men inspired by the Holy Spirit. 

Isn’t it amazing that God can choose whom He wants to proclaim His will without the use of an earthly organization?  He has a history of doing this, but we don't see a written history of His using an organization.  

There is a valid account of a family in the mid 1800’s who lived a life of homesteading, as thousands have over the years.  They had a Bible that they read out of each day and they tried to live their life by it.  An earthly worldly organization wasn’t necessary to bring them the scriptures. 

I think as an elder, you desire the position you have as a “natural man” appointed with authority in the organization.  (1 Cor 2:12-16)  It's hard to let go of a life that rewards one's personal esteem.  (Matt 16:25)

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
⁹ “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.”  Isa 55:8,9

4 hours ago, Anna said:

You are getting confused. The role of the elders is to help shepherd the sheep and protect the flock, not to judge who will gain everlasting life and who will not. If someone is disfellowshipped it is on account of known unrepentant wrong doing and according to the scriptures.

People leave the organization because of its sins.  Where do the scriptures validate their disfellowshipping? They certainly do not need to repent for leaving a sin-filled organization.  They should repent for their time spent there. ( James 4:4) Remember also , what has been said by the organization concerning disfellowshipping? 

Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof. w52 11/15 p. 703

Disfellowshipping is a spiritual killing.  The person who wrote this and the leadership who approved of this, condone the heartfelt act of killing, which is judgment made by men.  They believe they have the power given by God to judge another as deserving or not, of eternal life.  Rev 13:15

The proof is how JWs treat disfellowshipped people, all those disfellowshipped whether they have committed a sin or not.  Yet, even if their heart is repentant for sinning, they may wait for months to be reinstated at the approval of men. 

As Jesus said to the Pharisees who wanted the woman stoned for adultery, “Whoever hasn’t sinned should throw the first stone.”  John 8:7

1 hour ago, xero said:

So you simply want to disobey Jesus

Perhaps you can explain with God's Word, how I have disobeyed Jesus.

1 hour ago, xero said:

You left the organization because you wanted to weed it. Guess what? Not your job.

Are you saying that it is the elder body who has been designated as the ‘harvesters’ through their shunning and disfellowshipping techniques?

8 hours ago, xero said:

Even an atheist recognizes the need for organization, however opposers who have lost their reason imagine that they would have knowledge of anything biblical w/o the organizations they carp and moan about. It's like they simply refuse to acknowledge Jesus when he's asked about uprooting the weeds, they want to uproot all of it. Jesus on the other hand said "knock it off, you presumptuous people, you have nothing to do with weeding, it's going to grow together until the harvest and the weeding won't be done by you and your mouth, it'll be done by angels".

So YOU as a professed Christian simply must choose an organization with which to associate. No you're not going to agree w/everything, but that's the deal.

There doesn’t appear to have been a need for the anointed and true believers in Christ down through the ages, to develop an organization…until Russel came along.  Jesus said God is looking for those who worship “in spirit and truth”.  Was Russel worshiping in “spirit and truth”?  How many untruths did that man, and all leaders who followed him, pronounce as truths?  Preaching untruths – lies – is evidence of the lack of Holy Spirit from the God of Truth.  (Num 23:19)

In order to 'gather together as the day draws near', an organization isn’t necessary.  I understand that there have been new regulations,  new warnings where no JW  can “gather” on zoom independently for Bible study, or even to pray together - nothing aside of outlined protocol approved by the GB or their helpers is acceptable.   Is that rule found in the scriptures?  Or, is this a necessary rule that ensures the life of and unity within, an organization? The GB is afraid of what these independent ones may learn from one another, who may realize they have been duped.  The encouraging attitude of the Bereans ends with the JW baptism. (Acts 17:11)

As an elder, are you enforcing these new decrees?

Announcements and Reminders March 2021

FOR ELDERS

7. Private Meetings Arranged via Video conference: “The faithful and discreet slave” has provided practical, Scriptural guidance that highlights principles for individuals to consider when deciding whether to organize or attend a social gathering. (Matt. 24:45-47) Rather than making rules, the emphasis should be on applying Bible principles. When Bible principles are applied, social gatherings can be refreshing and bring honor to Jehovah. —1 Cor. 10:23, 24, 31, 32. 8. While there is no objection to wholesome social gatherings, we have received reports that some have begun to arrange additional meetings and events for spiritual instruction, even beginning and ending such meetings with prayer. While the individuals organizing and participating in such meetings likely are well-intentioned, there is no provision for such arrangements. 9. Jehovah’s people receive ample spiritual instruction and encouragement at congregation meetings, assemblies, and conventions as well as through JW Broadcasting and our publications. Under the guidance of his holy spirit and on the basis of his Word of truth, Jehovah provides what is needed through the faithful and discreet slave. Care should be taken not to organize or promote meetings for spiritual feeding beyond what has been provided by the organization. Such meetings could detract from what Jesus Christ is accomplishing through his congregation on earth today. Adhering to this direction will help all of God’s people to “be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought” and to remain “stabilized in the faith.”—1 Cor. 1:10; Col. 2:6, 7.

Detract from what Jesus is accomplishing, or from what men are attempting to accomplish?  No, there is a need to remain in the same mind as the GB, who by the way, are not inspired.  There was no valid scripture given to support their case.  What rules are we to follow, those of men or those of Jesus Christ? If JWs proudly say they follow the teachings of Christ but choose to adhere to the laws of men, are they not hypocrites?

I do not sit with the deceitful,
    nor do I associate with hypocrites.
⁵ I abhor the assembly of evildoers
    and refuse to sit with the wicked.  Ps 26:4,5

It is wickedness to control the entire spirituality of another, when what is taught transgresses the laws of Christ.

So, what do JWs want,  a social life or truth?  Obviously, the organization only wants their gatherings to be on a social level, and to leave the scriptures out of it. 

8 hours ago, xero said:

it's going to grow together until the harvest and the weeding won't be done by you and your mouth, it'll be done by angels".

About the angels are...

The Greek meaning for angel is “messenger”.   

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g32

This Greek word is also used in relationship to John the Baptist. (Matt 11:10) Yes, Jesus referred to him as an “angel”/messenger. 

Jesus’ “angels” are his anointed servants.  (Mal 3:1-5; John 13:20; Matt 13:37-43; Rev 1:1; 11:1-3; Zech 4:1-5,14; Rev 18:4-8; 14:6-12,15-19)

By the exposure of truth in the presence of lies, the angel/servants/messengers sent by Christ are an integral part of the harvest –separating out the “sons of the kingdom” through the word of Truth instilled in them, by the spirit of God.  (Matt 13:38)

Satan also has his angel messengers who deceive the elect (anointed).  They speak lies and enforce their oppressive rules, to ensure their physical life, and that of their earthly organization.  (2 Cor 11: 13-15; Rev 13:11,12; 16:13-16; 20:7-10)  (Matt 24:24; Mark 13:19-23)

8 hours ago, xero said:

So YOU as a professed Christian simply must choose an organization with which to associate. No you're not going to agree w/everything, but that's the deal.

That's the deal? Jesus condemned the Pharisees for additional rules and burdens put upon the people.  (Matt 23:4; Mark 7:7)

God has never approved of His people listening to lies, and becoming liars themselves. (Jer 23:16)

No, that's not the deal.   We don’t put up with people who lock us away from investigating our beliefs, sharing what we feel with others, or from preventing us from knowing Truth...or seeking out our anointed brethren who are to follow one Master, Jesus Christ.