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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Please understand I am not singling you out with this comment, but any JW and exJW who may be reading this.
    “The last days will culminate in “the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.” (2 Peter 3:3, 7) But people who love God will survive that destruction and be blessed with “everlasting life.”—Matthew 25:46.” wp19 No. 3 p. 10-11 
    Not according to WT doctrine of a battle to ensue 1,000 years into the “paradise”.  No matter how much one loves God now, they will have another event of destruction to face.  What a lie. 
    I don’t know how a JW can say that through obedience and baptism into the organization, salvation can be obtained, and “everlasting life” will be received, through that obedience to its direction…when it is the same organization that also tells you Satan will be “let loose” from the abyss one thousand years into the period of “everlasting life”.   If this WAS truth, NO JW should teach another person that they can receive everlasting life through the organization, because your prospects of surviving Satan’s DECEITFUL tactics are rather slim. (Rev 20:7-10; 1 Pet 5:8)  Do you truly believe you are guaranteed everlasting life by “sticking close” to the organization?
     
    What is everlasting life? 
    “The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.”  1 John 2:17
    “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”  John 3:16
    Eternal life, forever in the Kingdom.
    “And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”  Rev 21:3,4
    If there is a slaughter of your loved ones in the “paradise”, will you not mourn or cry or suffer pain over their loss?
    Which do you believe? God’s promise in Revelation 21:3,4…or the confusing, fork-tongued teaching that yes, you will have everlasting life after Armageddon, but it is highly possibly you may lose that promise one thousand years into it?
    Satan was “let loose” after a symbolic “thousand years” from the abyss, by a fallen star. (Rev 9:1)  Stars represent God’s holy people/ anointed ones; this star that fell to the earth is not Jesus Christ, (who would never “fall”), but a rebellious anointed one. (Dan 12:3; Rev 1:16; 8:10; 2 Pet 3:17;Jude 1:12,13; Rev 6:13; 12:4) Satan gave this fallen star a “key” to deception and death – a “key” to unlock his plan to destroy  God’s anointed ones during the last days. (Rev 12:13,15) It is the same fallen star that poisons the waters or teachings, causing death to all who spiritually “drink” it.  (Rev 8:10,11; 13:11,12, 17:1,2)
    Satan was “let loose” from the abyss, to finally "perceive" how to employ a ruse against God’s saints, using those he has “won over”, with offers of power, riches, authority. (Luke 4:7)
    Where are all the anointed “saints” gathered? (Rev 9:4; 13:1,2,7)  Who has authority over them? (Rev 13:11,12)
     
    “Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.”  Rev 20:7-9
     
     
     https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2020/04/satan-in-abyss.html
  2. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    “Is not My word like fire,” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?  Jer 23:29
    "Therefore I cut you in pieces with My prophets,
        I killed you with the words of My mouth—
        then my judgments go forth like the sun."  Hos 6:5
    When I think of this "torment" I think of leaders such as Hitler, who's legacy has been condemned through the the mouth of people since his wicked rule.  He is "condemned" "day and night" in a sense, for his atrocities committed even though he is dead.  God's Word condemns eternally, those who reject His Word in Christ. Since His Word, the spiritual sense of it, "is like fire", it is a symbolic condemnation.
    This anointed one has an article addressing this very topic:
    https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/08/tormented-forever-in-lake-of-fire.html
     
     
     
     
  3. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from César Chávez in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Very true.  It is why many leave the organization.  They want nothing more to do with false doctrine.  They can use the word of God to verify their reason for leaving.   How can the GB, who repeatedly err in direction, predictions and doctrine, direct the judgment of another, as spiritually "dead"?  (Rev 13:15)
    Was Harold Camping a false prophet?  Yep, but he apologized for misleading thousands with false predictions.  Is the GB a composite "false prophet"?  Yep, and they make silly excuses for misleading millions with false predictions. 
    Which one is forgiven by God?  You will most like say, the GB, of course! 
    But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”  Rev 21:8
     
     
     
     
     
  4. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    When we look at Rev 20:7-10, it shows that Satan uses deceit to surround the "camp" of God's holy people/saints.  
    In Rev 13 it also says that the two Beasts (Gog and Magog) use deceit through the power given them by Satan, to come against the saints. (Rev 13:5-7,14)
    In Rev 16:13-16, it mentions Jesus' "kings of the earth" (Rev 1:5) being deceived by the two beasts and Satan.  They use blasphemy and deceit to take down those anointed in Christ.  
    We're getting a painted picture using various colors, of what occurs once Satan is released from the "abyss".  
    Sidepoint - if the locust of Rev 9:3 are God's anointed as the WT still insists, why would both Satan AND God's anointed come out of the "abyss" - the place of "not perceiving"?  (Rev 20:3)  One with apparent "good" intentions bearing a stinging message, and one with "evil" intentions to destroy through DECEIT?
  5. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    I doubt my comment is welcome between the two of you, and I have not read the following comments since these, but JWI, if you believe Jesus began reigning in the first century, then why would his “kingdom of the son of his love” (Col 1:13) not be his kingdom of a thousand years? (Ps 110:1,2; 1 Cor 15:25)
      Once “death” has been destroyed, the Kingdom of God would usher in. (1 Cor 15:24,26) Jesus will have put all enemies under his feet over the last 2,000 years as the scriptures indicate.  That is the point of his symbolic thousand-year reign, which is a time of division and judgment.  
    For a thousand years in Your sight
    Are like yesterday when it is past,
    And like a watch in the night.  Ps 90:4
    Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”  Mark 13:35,36
    I see nothing in the scriptures that say Jesus will reign for a literal thousand years in peace, yet also call it a judgment period as the WT teaches.   How many judgments periods does there need to be? The Great Tribulation is already a test of magnified proportions that God's people must face.   I see nothing in the scriptures that says we must wait until we are physically and mentally perfect before we face another deception by Satan. This is doctrine of men.   We see plenty of examples of people in the scriptures who have already faced Satan and remained faithful to God.  Will Abraham be submitted to another deceptive test? Noah?  His family?  Moses?  The few faithful kings of Israel?  All faithful ones who left Babylon and remained faithful during their lifetime?  They all conquered “death” during their lifetime by receiving “living water” from God through His decrees.   Once they are resurrected, they will live, eternally, with no interruption by Satan, since the Destroyer who destroyed, would be gone.  (Isa 33:1; 1 Cor 15:26)
     “But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” Matt 22:31,32
    And if they are of the “living”, they would  hold onto this unfailing promise:
    “By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 
    All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 
    Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
     And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him." Heb, chapter 11
     
    How can one retain their faith in the Kingdom of God, where righteous will dwell, and still believe unrighteousness and destruction will be allowed to deceitfully come upon one, who already survived testing by Satan during their lifetime on this side of Armageddon? 
    Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”  John 11:25,26
    The "last enemy" death, is conquered by the individual before Armageddon, during their lifetime of believing in and obeying the teachings of Jesus Christ. 
    The faithful anointed of Christ, have “passed over, from death to life” and will “never die”.  (1 Pet 1:23; John 1:13; James 1:18; 1 Pet 1:3; 1 John 3:9)  Throughout their lifetime, they must persist in that faithfulness and for the remnant, resist Satan’s deceptions. (Rom 12:6; James 2:17,24,26; Rev 13:7,10)
    Those not anointed but are true believers in Christ are redeemed through the second resurrection.  All people who had obtained righteousness will “never die”. They will never have to face the possibility of death again, since death will be destroyed.
    The promise of eternal life by Jesus Christ, is eternal to the one who believes and obeys HIS words and not man. 
    We can be considered "dead" in the physical body if not believing and living by, the teachings of Jesus Christ.  
    "Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life"  John 5:24
     
    Why would one desire to be in the Kingdom of God, yet also believe they may not live there eternally by a final test that would come through deceit? (Rev 20:7-10)  Only through demonic influence would a curve ball be thrown into a promise Jesus firmly held out to those who accept HIS doctrine of living eternally, which is the doctrine of God. (John 7:16)
     
     
     
     
  6. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    I didn't put your whole comment here, but am considering all of it...or most of it, at least!
    Well, we have no idea what happened “in heaven” before the record we have in Genesis.  We only  have have the account of creation and Prov 8:22-31.  Jesus Christ is the “tree of life” whose fruit has always imparted truth, beginning with Adam and Eve in the garden.  (Rev 2:7;22:2,14)  Satan, is the symbolic “tree of knowledge”.  At what point Satan rebelled against God, who knows, but we do know that God thoroughly warned Adam and Eve about him, about his teachings that would lead to death. (Gen 3:3)  I don’t believe God “tested” Adam and Eve, but gave them free will, to choose life and not death, as he did with Satan and the demons.  (James 1:13-17) 
    Satan already had access to truth, to the living water of God. (Prov 14:27; John 4:10) I can’t see that he was tested with another source of "waters", but chose to abandon God, to fulfill his own lusts and selfish intentions, which will lead to his desctruction.  God created life which imparts freedom.  Satan used that freedom to fearlessly abandon the source of life, giving him the "key" to destruction and death.   (Prov 27:20;Rev 9:1,11)
    Satan of the spirit realm or “heavens”, will be destroyed, so death will occur in “heaven”.  Arauna brought out a good scripture in Gen 3:15. 
    With that is,
     Ps 74:14 – “you crushed the heads of Leviathan; you fed him to the creatures of the desert.”
    Isa 27:1 – “On that day the LORD with his relentless, large, strong sword will bring judgment on Leviathan, the fleeing serpent -- Leviathan, the twisting serpent. He will slay the monster that is in the sea.” 
    Isa 33:1 – “Woe, you destroyer never destroyed, you traitor never betrayed! When you have finished destroying, you will be destroyed. When you have finished betraying, they will betray you.”
     
    Other than what we view when looking up at the sky and call it, the heavens, there is a spiritual heaven that I don’t believe is a place, but a spiritual existence or state.  An anointed one (“born again” 1 Pet 1:23) can be both “heavenly” and “earthly”.
     “Heavenly” as part of the New Covenant  (Gal 6:26; Heb 12:22; Eph 2:6; Luke 10:20),
    …as the dwelling of God’s spirit (1 Cor 3:16; 1 Thess 4:8)
     …“earthly” as God’s owned land/home/field. (Jer 25:30; Acts 7:49; 1 Cor 3:9; Luke 8:15)
    …as well as “heavenly and earthly” as a new creation – both human and spirit. (2 Cor 5:17)
    They are spiritually under the authority of Christ – Matt 28:18
      So, when it says..
    “By the same word, the present heavens and earth are stored up for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.   But based on his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.”  2 Pet 3:7,13
    …the “new heavens” and “new earth”  will be cleansed of all unrighteousness; which mean only those who are found with a “righteous” heart (both anointed - heavenly/earthly” - and those not anointed living on the earth, will receive eternal life. 
    The WT leaders can only see things literally.  They are blind to the deeper spiritual understanding of heaven.  They have to literally envision thrones where a literal 144,000 are seated without taking into account that Jesus said, “the kingdom of God is within you” – within the heart of fertile ground.  Luke 17:21
     
     
     
     
    https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/02/heavens-earth-sea-authority-of-christ.html
     

     
  7. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    I've asked to see these Scriptures quoted on here.  All those supposedly direct scriptures about Shunning. So come on lets see them. 
    Show me a scripture which refers to a person of good Bible trained conscience  leaving an immoral organisation and why that person should be shunned, when it is not that person that has committed sin but the Leaders of that organisation and people in that organisation that has committed the sins........... I think @Witness said , it is us that should be shunning the CCJW and it's GB. But no, the GB make rules so that we cannot show proof to JWs exactly how perverted the CCJW really is. But my conscience is clear in that I make it known the best ways i can, to try to help people stay safe from Paedophiles and from the lies taught in the CCJW.  
  8. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Of course !! Every "normal worldly human" have no specific reason to understand and to accept JW abnormal rule that makes separation and difference about family member who living in house, out house, in a basement or on first floor, near house or on other planet. Family member is family member, alive or dead, JW or non-JW or ex-JW.
  9. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    If we put this observation and conclusion on "next level", it is similar how elders showing "cowardice" and not reporting CSA to the ONLY AUTHORITY that is in charge to deal with CRIMES according to Romans 13 ... to the "secular authorities".
    Well obviously , WTJWorg have problem in detecting what is "sin" and what is "crime".
  10. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Yes, the GB appear to be "strict and righteous" as the presumed "faithful and discreet slave".  
    Jesus focused on the individual and that one’s spiritual health.  The GB/elder body appears to focus on the individual, (using scripture laced with WT doctrine)  and I believe there are sincere elders who really try to “adjust” a sinner; yet, ultimately, the underlying decision to be made, is not according to the spiritual health of the sinner, but the projected appearance of the organization itself.  So, shunning is established and the elders are finished with “readjusting”.   If they can’t make this person mold to the decrees of the organization, (which they must) that person is no longer an active “part” of the congregation, or as we know, an active “part” of his or her family.   
    If the organization's decrees and ruler-ship are challenged, when one is "healed" of their spiritual blindness and can see Jesus Christ and the Father much more clearly, they are "cast" out - shunned.  It reminds me of the event in John chapter 9, and the blind man healed by Christ.  The Pharisees were furious that this man confronted them with their own spiritual blindness.
     The man answered and said to them, “Why, this is a marvelous thing, that you do not know where He is from; yet He has opened my eyes! 31 Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. 32 Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind. 33 If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing.”
    34 They answered and said to him, “You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?” And they [f]cast him out.   John 9:30-34
     [f] "Excommunicated him" 
    And today, how dare we come against the leadership of the organization and teach them about Jesus Christ!  
    As we've mentioned in the past, elders who leave the WT, have many times expressed guilt for their decisions made in judicial committees, which are based on organizational rules.  Jesus was teaching “new wine”, which the WT refuses to embrace. (Matt 9:17)  Calling it God’s organization, when Jesus was the perfect “image” of God, and taught forgiveness and love, shows how little the GB “know” YHVH and Jesus Christ.  
     
     Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”
    “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” John 8:19
     
     Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?  John 14:9
     
    “The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”  Col 1:15
     
     
     
     
    https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/02/jehovahs-genuine-mountain.html
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  11. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Yes, the GB appear to be "strict and righteous" as the presumed "faithful and discreet slave".  
    Jesus focused on the individual and that one’s spiritual health.  The GB/elder body appears to focus on the individual, (using scripture laced with WT doctrine)  and I believe there are sincere elders who really try to “adjust” a sinner; yet, ultimately, the underlying decision to be made, is not according to the spiritual health of the sinner, but the projected appearance of the organization itself.  So, shunning is established and the elders are finished with “readjusting”.   If they can’t make this person mold to the decrees of the organization, (which they must) that person is no longer an active “part” of the congregation, or as we know, an active “part” of his or her family.   
    If the organization's decrees and ruler-ship are challenged, when one is "healed" of their spiritual blindness and can see Jesus Christ and the Father much more clearly, they are "cast" out - shunned.  It reminds me of the event in John chapter 9, and the blind man healed by Christ.  The Pharisees were furious that this man confronted them with their own spiritual blindness.
     The man answered and said to them, “Why, this is a marvelous thing, that you do not know where He is from; yet He has opened my eyes! 31 Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. 32 Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind. 33 If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing.”
    34 They answered and said to him, “You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?” And they [f]cast him out.   John 9:30-34
     [f] "Excommunicated him" 
    And today, how dare we come against the leadership of the organization and teach them about Jesus Christ!  
    As we've mentioned in the past, elders who leave the WT, have many times expressed guilt for their decisions made in judicial committees, which are based on organizational rules.  Jesus was teaching “new wine”, which the WT refuses to embrace. (Matt 9:17)  Calling it God’s organization, when Jesus was the perfect “image” of God, and taught forgiveness and love, shows how little the GB “know” YHVH and Jesus Christ.  
     
     Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”
    “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” John 8:19
     
     Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?  John 14:9
     
    “The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”  Col 1:15
     
     
     
     
    https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/02/jehovahs-genuine-mountain.html
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  12. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Excellent thought. 
    Disfellowshipping is spiritual condemnation.  At times the elders may admit they have wrongly condemned an individual, and it may take years before its notice.  These events are rare.  Condemning one's spirituality isn't to be taken lightly, but for the sake of the cleanliness of the organization, it is commonplace.  
     
    "Judge[a] ("Condemn") not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what [b]judgment ("Condemnation") you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."  Matt 7:1-5
     
     
     
  13. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    If I had been in that same congregation, (not a thousand miles away) I know that as a faithful elder's wife I would have not even conceived covering up the wrongdoing.  
    Well, Arauna, believe what you want.  I must tell you that I tend to agree with @4Jah2me that you are a very bitter person.  I have my doubts about this statement of yours:  
    "Sorry if I come across that way. I am the least bitter person you can ever meet. Sweet, friendly and open... no bitterness."
    But, I give you the benefit of the doubt, knowing you suffer from arthritis.  One day can be good, the next, miserable.  I know pain can be a barometer gauging one's attitude for the day.
     
    What kind of people?  Repeat offenders? I've already covered that.  I am sorry to say, you already mix with repeat offenders.  It's quite obvious if you care to look.  They are spiritual "harlots" who lead you in falsehoods.  (Rev 13:11,12; 17:1-6)
    As I said earlier - 
    Do you have the ability to read every heart?  Does the elder body?  Did Jesus shun sinners?
    "Now it happened, as He was dining in Levi’s house, that many tax collectors and sinners also sat together with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many, and they followed Him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?”
    17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Mark 2:15-17
     
     
     
  14. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    At that point, he would have been labeled by today's standards a "PIMO" - physically in, mentally out.  I doubt very much that he had any regard whatsoever for organizational protocol.  He had seen its abusive tactics over the years already, used against his own father.  
     
    Arauna, I lived a hundred miles shy of a thousand, from my son at the time.  I didn't hear of this until he decided to move back home.  
    Yes, please do blame my son and myself for another person's hypocrisy...if that makes you feel better. 
     
  15. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Excellent thought. 
    Disfellowshipping is spiritual condemnation.  At times the elders may admit they have wrongly condemned an individual, and it may take years before its notice.  These events are rare.  Condemning one's spirituality isn't to be taken lightly, but for the sake of the cleanliness of the organization, it is commonplace.  
     
    "Judge[a] ("Condemn") not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what [b]judgment ("Condemnation") you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."  Matt 7:1-5
     
     
     
  16. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    If I had been in that same congregation, (not a thousand miles away) I know that as a faithful elder's wife I would have not even conceived covering up the wrongdoing.  
    Well, Arauna, believe what you want.  I must tell you that I tend to agree with @4Jah2me that you are a very bitter person.  I have my doubts about this statement of yours:  
    "Sorry if I come across that way. I am the least bitter person you can ever meet. Sweet, friendly and open... no bitterness."
    But, I give you the benefit of the doubt, knowing you suffer from arthritis.  One day can be good, the next, miserable.  I know pain can be a barometer gauging one's attitude for the day.
     
    What kind of people?  Repeat offenders? I've already covered that.  I am sorry to say, you already mix with repeat offenders.  It's quite obvious if you care to look.  They are spiritual "harlots" who lead you in falsehoods.  (Rev 13:11,12; 17:1-6)
    As I said earlier - 
    Do you have the ability to read every heart?  Does the elder body?  Did Jesus shun sinners?
    "Now it happened, as He was dining in Levi’s house, that many tax collectors and sinners also sat together with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many, and they followed Him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?”
    17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Mark 2:15-17
     
     
     
  17. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Please, if i omitted to put Bible verse/s to bake my opinion, would you be so kind to put: 
    Bible verse/s that clearly said
    1) how you have to shun dfd family member who don't living under same roof with faithful family members?
    and Bible verse that clearly said
    2) how you can talk with dfd family member who living under same roof with faithful family members?
    If you would not be able to provide such scriptures than i will politely ask you to not make claim how i am person who denying scriptures (in fact scriptures that not exist in reality). Only existing thing is WTJWorg extended interpretations of Bible verses.
     
    PS Your and WTJWorg extended interpretations are so similar with examples of Jew who want to be very strict and righteous about Law which forbade working on Sabbath. And They made explanations with long list of what work is and what work is not. :)))
  18. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Always blame-shifting. 
    “What is Blame-Shifting? Escaping responsibility. . . Blame-shifting is an emotionally abusive behavior or tactic.
    Blame-shifting or “blaming the victim” is a form of context switching and crazy making. When you are confronting them on something they did or attempting to set boundaries, they switch the whole focus back to you, and thus put you on the defensive. Now the focus is on you and they slither  (Isa 59:8) away. This gets you way off track and off balance right where they want you–derailed. Clever huh, unless you are on the receiving end of this crazy making.” 
    And on a sadder level of this blameshifting, concerning child abuse:
    In order to discredit a victim, an abuser will often blame the victim for their own actions, even going so far as to say the victim is in fact the one who committed the abuse. This may cause the victim to feel defeated or like they are losing their mind. In a particularly weakened state, the victim may even believe they are at fault. Abusers often claim friends, family, mental health professionals, church leaders or other authorities are in agreement with them, which has the effect of isolating the victim and preventing the victim from getting help.
    Now the abuser has all the power and control over the victim and their relationship.  
    Blame-shifting is a way to escape taking responsibility." 
     https://www.thehaguepsychologist.nl/what-is-blame-shifting-escaping-responsibility/
     
    Wow, the entire organization is guilty of blameshifting in several ways, throughout its hierarchy.  I’ll bet there is a WT article about this… 
    Indeed, there is: ‘You Must Be Holy Because I Am Holy’  Wt 96/8/1 pp 10-14
    “Jesus clearly taught that what is in the heart will become evident by what a person says and does.” 
    It quotes Matthew 12:34; 15:18-20.
    “Holiness is not achieved by taking the line of least resistance or by being self-indulgent. That kind of person will always make excuses for his conduct and try to place the blame elsewhere. Perhaps we need to learn to become responsible for our actions and not be like some who allege that fate stacked the deck against them because of family background or genetics… (we are not inspired, we can err)
     The root of the matter lies in the heart of the individual. Does he or she love righteousness? yearn for holiness? desire God’s blessing? The psalmist made the need for holiness clear when he said: “Turn away from what is bad, and do what is good; seek to find peace, and pursue it.” The apostle Paul wrote: “Let your love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is wicked, cling to what is good.”—Psalm 34:14; 97:10; Romans 12:9.
     
    Obviously, anyone who loves righteousness, yearns for holiness and desires God's blessing, has the valid right to "shun" the GB and the entire leadership for their hypocrisy and blameshifting.
  19. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Very true.  It is why many leave the organization.  They want nothing more to do with false doctrine.  They can use the word of God to verify their reason for leaving.   How can the GB, who repeatedly err in direction, predictions and doctrine, direct the judgment of another, as spiritually "dead"?  (Rev 13:15)
    Was Harold Camping a false prophet?  Yep, but he apologized for misleading thousands with false predictions.  Is the GB a composite "false prophet"?  Yep, and they make silly excuses for misleading millions with false predictions. 
    Which one is forgiven by God?  You will most like say, the GB, of course! 
    But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”  Rev 21:8
     
     
     
     
     
  20. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Then we both should be called apostates.  
    Disfellowshipping is an across-the-board condemnation for everything from smoking, celebrating Christmas, drunkenness, infidelity, fornication, murder, child abuse, rejection of the organization and the GB’s leadership, etc.  In ALL cases, shunning is expected.  But what do see, Arauna?  Partiality when it comes to child abuse, where the elders have hidden this sin from the congregations for years.  They have also hidden the perpetrator by allowing him into another congregation!   In many cases concerning this, who is disfellowshipped?  The victim, who is BLAMED for letting it happen!  And when he or she speaks against the failures of the elder body, that person is SHUNNED - disfellowshipped.
    From my experience in the congregations, many elders were drunkards and that “finer detail” was ignored.
    My oldest son moved into another state and became friends with two young men who were in the new congregation he joined.  They shared an apartment together.  One of these young men was an elder's son, who engaged in wild partying, fornication and drunkenness away from the eyes of his father and the congregation.  He maintained a good profile as a JW and received "privileges" because his father was an elder.  My son would call him on his actions when the boy would return home from partying, obviously drunk.  This added to the observation of hypocrisy that my son had perceived through hypocritical treatment of his family by the elder body, and he eventually left the organization.   When he moved away from there, he received a call from both of his previous roommates, saying that they would have to SHUN him for his choice. They were compelled to let him know this, even though he is not disfellowshipped.  He told the two-faced elder's son, "you know you don't believe in it either", and the boy told him he was right, but he loved the attention, friends and family too much to leave it.  He said it was an "easy" life.  
    It is an easy life for him, because his conscience has been seared through the hypocrisy established in your organization.
    "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron."  1 Tim 4:1,2
     
     
    "The Cost of Life" - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-cost-of-life.html
     
     
     
  21. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    What is that "different word"?  "Disfellowshipped"?  I think "shun/shunning" is more part of your (all JWs) vocabulary than you realize.
     
     
     Good question!
    My question is, why is there argument over the obvious?  Is there some sort of sub-conscience guilt about the act of disfellowshipping, by referring to it as "shunning"?  Is that why the lawyer had to hide the facts?  
    But then, perhaps the lawyer thought his lie would be left unchallenged, and the GB also, as JWI pointed out the act of manipulating access to articles, to show complete support of the lawyer's words. 
    However, this article entitled, "Can You Be True To God, Yet Hide The Facts?",  in the WT 74/1/15 p. 35-37, makes a good point:
     
    “WHAT results when a lie is let go unchallenged? Does not silence help the lie to pass as truth, to have freer sway to influence many, perhaps to their serious harm?
    If you are among those seeking to be faithful to God, the issues these questions raise are vital for you today. Why? Because God’s servants in every period of history have had to face up to the challenge these issues present. They have had to expose falsehood and wrongdoing and warn people of dangers and deception—not just in a general way, but in a specific way, in the interest of pure worship. It would have been far easier to keep silent or say only what people wanted to hear. But faithfulness to God and love of neighbor moved them to speak. They realized that “better is a revealed reproof than a concealed love.”—Prov. 27:5.
     
     
     
  22. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Definition of a hypocrite:
     
    1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion 2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings        
  23. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Here, the word “shunned” is interchangeable with “disfellowshipped”:
    "We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. W 13/8/1
     
     
     
  24. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Always blame-shifting. 
    “What is Blame-Shifting? Escaping responsibility. . . Blame-shifting is an emotionally abusive behavior or tactic.
    Blame-shifting or “blaming the victim” is a form of context switching and crazy making. When you are confronting them on something they did or attempting to set boundaries, they switch the whole focus back to you, and thus put you on the defensive. Now the focus is on you and they slither  (Isa 59:8) away. This gets you way off track and off balance right where they want you–derailed. Clever huh, unless you are on the receiving end of this crazy making.” 
    And on a sadder level of this blameshifting, concerning child abuse:
    In order to discredit a victim, an abuser will often blame the victim for their own actions, even going so far as to say the victim is in fact the one who committed the abuse. This may cause the victim to feel defeated or like they are losing their mind. In a particularly weakened state, the victim may even believe they are at fault. Abusers often claim friends, family, mental health professionals, church leaders or other authorities are in agreement with them, which has the effect of isolating the victim and preventing the victim from getting help.
    Now the abuser has all the power and control over the victim and their relationship.  
    Blame-shifting is a way to escape taking responsibility." 
     https://www.thehaguepsychologist.nl/what-is-blame-shifting-escaping-responsibility/
     
    Wow, the entire organization is guilty of blameshifting in several ways, throughout its hierarchy.  I’ll bet there is a WT article about this… 
    Indeed, there is: ‘You Must Be Holy Because I Am Holy’  Wt 96/8/1 pp 10-14
    “Jesus clearly taught that what is in the heart will become evident by what a person says and does.” 
    It quotes Matthew 12:34; 15:18-20.
    “Holiness is not achieved by taking the line of least resistance or by being self-indulgent. That kind of person will always make excuses for his conduct and try to place the blame elsewhere. Perhaps we need to learn to become responsible for our actions and not be like some who allege that fate stacked the deck against them because of family background or genetics… (we are not inspired, we can err)
     The root of the matter lies in the heart of the individual. Does he or she love righteousness? yearn for holiness? desire God’s blessing? The psalmist made the need for holiness clear when he said: “Turn away from what is bad, and do what is good; seek to find peace, and pursue it.” The apostle Paul wrote: “Let your love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is wicked, cling to what is good.”—Psalm 34:14; 97:10; Romans 12:9.
     
    Obviously, anyone who loves righteousness, yearns for holiness and desires God's blessing, has the valid right to "shun" the GB and the entire leadership for their hypocrisy and blameshifting.
  25. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Very true.  It is why many leave the organization.  They want nothing more to do with false doctrine.  They can use the word of God to verify their reason for leaving.   How can the GB, who repeatedly err in direction, predictions and doctrine, direct the judgment of another, as spiritually "dead"?  (Rev 13:15)
    Was Harold Camping a false prophet?  Yep, but he apologized for misleading thousands with false predictions.  Is the GB a composite "false prophet"?  Yep, and they make silly excuses for misleading millions with false predictions. 
    Which one is forgiven by God?  You will most like say, the GB, of course! 
    But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”  Rev 21:8
     
     
     
     
     
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