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Witness

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  1. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Just the fact that child abuse exists in an organization that declares it is inspired by Holy Spirit – “spirit-directed” -  is evil. (Rev 13:15)  For any JW leaders and members as well, who believe this outcome as beneficial - "good" -  toward upholding the governmental procedures of “God’s organization”,  is also evil. 
    Woe to those who call evil good
    and good evil,
    who substitute darkness for light
    and light for darkness,
    who substitute bitter for sweet
    and sweet for bitter.
    21 Woe to those who are wise in their own opinion
    and clever in their own sight.
    22 Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine,
    who are fearless at mixing beer,
    23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe
    and deprive the innocent of justice.
    24 Therefore, as a tongue of fire consumes straw
    and as dry grass shrivels in the flame,
    so their roots will become like something rotten
    and their blossoms will blow away like dust,
    for they have rejected
    the instruction of the Lord of Hosts,
    and they have despised
    the word of the Holy One of Israel.  Isa 5:20-24
  2. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    Right, so maybe they mean that with God's help, Christ's battle tactic from heaven, is to situate garrisons all over the earth? (1 Cor 15:25)  
    What an impudent statement the man made in the video!
    It reminds me of this guy:
    The devil took him to a high place and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in an instant. 6 The devil said to him, “I will give you all the power and glory of these kingdoms. All of it has been given to me, and I give it to anyone I please. 7 So if you will worship me, all this will be yours.”  Luke 4:5-7
     
    "The God who made the world and everything in it—He is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in shrines made by hands. 25 Neither is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives everyone life and breath and all things. 26 From one man He has made every nationality to live over the whole earth and has determined their appointed times and the boundaries of where they live. 27 He did this so they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 For in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Being God’s offspring then, we shouldn’t think that the divine nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image fashioned by human art and imagination.  Acts 17:24-29
    http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-kingdom-when.html 
  3. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    But if the GB / Bethel / Circuit Overseers / Elders et al, are allowed to tell half the Org and still pretend it is confidential then that is the biggest immoral / dishonest / unloving / merciless thing ever.  It is a loophole of the worst kind.  
    The case may be ten years old, but that does not make it any less important in God's / Christ's opinion surely. Surely THEY would want justice and mercy done ? 
    As JTR (I think it was ) said, the W/t / JW Org is run by the accountants and lawyers .
    It is not God's Organisation because it proves to be man's. 
    @Srecko Sostar  The best option, for Corporation, would be some sort of problems and persecution toward members, without reaching too much for money of  organization, without doing financial harm to the corporation. 
    Sadly there is much persecution in Russia. There may be persecution elsewhere but I'm not aware of it. In Russia though it has been financial as well as physical. 
    But it annoys me when JWs pretend that the CSA problems are part of persecution, because in truth they are caused by the dishonesty in the Org itself. 
    In my opinion, whatever is printed in the W/t or in the Shepherding the Flock book, nothing has changed. It will still be hidden, and victims will still be shunned and called liars. JWs will still believe the Elders above the victims. Contacting Bethel / Head Office etc, where those brothers do not really know the people involved / the Elders involved / or the true situation, but can only go by their book of rules, will not bring about justice and mercy that God and Christ require.
  4. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Haven't you heard from the video Srecko posted under "1914"?  God's Kingdom is ruling!  Apparently he has chosen these lawyers and accountants to fight the fine fight!  The funny thing is, this "Jehovah" is not powerful enough to keep his members out of prison in countries that fight against him.  He's not powerful enough to win all the court cases that arise against his Kingdom rule.   He's not powerful enough to "hold down the fort", but he is an expert at building them.    
  5. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    .... to protect financial assets, if  i may say.
    Because there is no more need to protect Organization in sense of dignity and "to not drag God's name through the mud". CSA problem is strong in so many Institutions, religious and non-religious.
    In that,  from secular point of view, JW organization is like every other organization. And they (world) have no need to pay more attention to WTJWorg than to every other religion or institution of any sort.
    What problem is : JW members and Management are worried about how worldly/secular people will look at them and what they will think about them - and that is, in JW' minds as: Only True Religion and God's Earthly Organization.
    In this aspect , from JW point of view,  JW leaders found it very important to "protect organization" as the most holy in the world. Image of Organization have to be without spot, mainly in the view of members, who have to bring themselves into thinking how World have to see WTJWorg as only true and clean organization, in one hand, and because of that, this same World have to want to destroy and persecute WTJWorg, in second hand.
    One part of JW mind need some sort of "recognition"  made by satan' World, and other part of JW mind in the same time wish to be "persecuted" in some form, as proof that they are and belong to only true religion. 
    It comes to the point where self-realization (individual and as organization) about the correctness of one's own path is not enough. A dose of martyrdom is required. But again, not so high a dose as to cause harm in the financial stability of the Corporation. The best option, for Corporation, would be some sort of problems and persecution toward members, without reaching too much for money of  organization, without doing financial harm to the corporation. 
  6. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    Jesus: "The kingdom of heaven  ...." ??!!
  7. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    THE ZALKIN LAW FIRM, P.C.  (facebook)
    We have received inquiries and concerns about a Montana Supreme Court's decision to reverse a $35 Million judgment against the Jehovah's Witnesses. What people should know is that this opinion is limited to the facts of that case and to that court's interpretation of the law of Montana and does not establish precedent in other jurisdictions. We know the lawyers who represent the victim in that case and in our opinion they did a fine job. Unfortunately, based on our reading of the Montana Supreme Court's opinion, the Court was mislead by testimony offered by the JWs in house expert in their child abuse policies and practices. The case hinged on whether the way in which the JWs handle reports of child sexual abuse falls within an exception to Montana's clergy mandated reporting law. Relying heavily on the testimony of Dave Chappel from the Service Department, the Montana Supreme Court concluded that the policies and practices of the JWs is to keep such information confidential, even if it is shared between elders of the congregation and elders of the Service Department, and even if elders are free to disclose that information to law enforcement should they decide to do so, thereby entitling the JWs to the confidentiality exception to the obligation of clergy to report suspicions of child sexual abuse. In essence, the Court's conclusion is that where a religious organization says it is required to keep such information confidential as a tenant of its religion, despite evidence to the contrary, the court is going to accept what it says as controlling.
    The JWs also argue that civil courts should not second guess how they deal with reports of child sexual abuse because doing so violates the JWs 1st Amendment right to the free exercise of its religion. That argument has failed in dozens of cases. The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized that civil courts can enforce neutral laws that are intended to apply to everyone equally. Laws that protect children from child abusers are neutral and not targeted to any one religion.
    Over the course of the past decade of litigating cases against the JWs we have obtained numerous court opinions that have found the opposite of what the Montana Supreme Court determined to be the case.
    We feel very badly for the victim in this case. What this case shows very clearly, is that the JWs continue to place secrecy and protection of known child molesters above the safety of children. Shame on them.
  8. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    THE ZALKIN LAW FIRM, P.C.  (facebook)
    We have received inquiries and concerns about a Montana Supreme Court's decision to reverse a $35 Million judgment against the Jehovah's Witnesses. What people should know is that this opinion is limited to the facts of that case and to that court's interpretation of the law of Montana and does not establish precedent in other jurisdictions. We know the lawyers who represent the victim in that case and in our opinion they did a fine job. Unfortunately, based on our reading of the Montana Supreme Court's opinion, the Court was mislead by testimony offered by the JWs in house expert in their child abuse policies and practices. The case hinged on whether the way in which the JWs handle reports of child sexual abuse falls within an exception to Montana's clergy mandated reporting law. Relying heavily on the testimony of Dave Chappel from the Service Department, the Montana Supreme Court concluded that the policies and practices of the JWs is to keep such information confidential, even if it is shared between elders of the congregation and elders of the Service Department, and even if elders are free to disclose that information to law enforcement should they decide to do so, thereby entitling the JWs to the confidentiality exception to the obligation of clergy to report suspicions of child sexual abuse. In essence, the Court's conclusion is that where a religious organization says it is required to keep such information confidential as a tenant of its religion, despite evidence to the contrary, the court is going to accept what it says as controlling.
    The JWs also argue that civil courts should not second guess how they deal with reports of child sexual abuse because doing so violates the JWs 1st Amendment right to the free exercise of its religion. That argument has failed in dozens of cases. The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized that civil courts can enforce neutral laws that are intended to apply to everyone equally. Laws that protect children from child abusers are neutral and not targeted to any one religion.
    Over the course of the past decade of litigating cases against the JWs we have obtained numerous court opinions that have found the opposite of what the Montana Supreme Court determined to be the case.
    We feel very badly for the victim in this case. What this case shows very clearly, is that the JWs continue to place secrecy and protection of known child molesters above the safety of children. Shame on them.
  9. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Kosonen in 1914   
    Well, it was Jesus who spoke to Paul, twice:
    As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
    5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
    “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
    7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink" Acts 9:3-9
    It was Jesus who chose his apostles, Paul being one of the them.  
    One more time that we KNOW of, Jesus spoke to Paul:
    "And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."  2 Cor 12:7-9
     
  10. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    Well, it was Jesus who spoke to Paul, twice:
    As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
    5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
    “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
    7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink" Acts 9:3-9
    It was Jesus who chose his apostles, Paul being one of the them.  
    One more time that we KNOW of, Jesus spoke to Paul:
    "And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."  2 Cor 12:7-9
     
  11. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Arauna in 1914   
    Well, it was Jesus who spoke to Paul, twice:
    As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
    5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
    “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
    7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink" Acts 9:3-9
    It was Jesus who chose his apostles, Paul being one of the them.  
    One more time that we KNOW of, Jesus spoke to Paul:
    "And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."  2 Cor 12:7-9
     
  12. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Shiwiii in Jehovah's Witnesses and The Supreme Court of the State of Montana, September 2019   
    This is disgusting! So if doctrine states that killing someone on the third Tuesday of the month is ok, then would this also be allowed as well? 
    The good thing about this though is that it is a great witness as to the practices and policies within this organization, and those who are curious will see this and think long and hard if it truly is an organization being used by God. Would a loving God want child abuse covered up? Would a loving God want it hidden because men made up a doctrine to get away with it?   
  13. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Kosonen in WT: The most important thing for Jehovah is to sanctify himself.   
    YES, Jesus sacrificed his physical life.  But you seem to be telling me he did this only to receive glory, which he expected to receive?
    ‘As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.  John 15:11-13
    God is love. (1 John 4:8)  God is Spirit. (John 4:24)   Jesus and the Father are as one, united in the Spirit of Truth and love. (John 17:22)   During an anointing, Holy Spirit is poured into one’s heart – the Spirit of Truth and love.  (Rom 5:5; 1 John 2:27)
     God’s Word, His decrees/commandments were fulfilled in the coming of Christ.  Love is the fulfillment of those commandments.  (Rom 13:10)   These “laws” of love, are written on the heart of an anointed one.  (Heb 8:10)   Since the word of God is “inspired” by Holy Spirit, (2 Tim 3:16,17)  the product, the fruit, of the Spirit that resides in the anointed heart, is outlined in Gal 5:22,23.  LOVE is listed first.  All other attributes listed, are the product of love. 
    When I was a child, I adored my fleshly father.  He gave me loving attention, and I gave it back. I followed him everywhere and I did my best to please him through my obedience.   He never promised me anything unusual, since we didn’t have spare funds for the “unusual”, let alone barely for the usual. I didn’t expect a reward for my obedience. I obeyed because I loved him and he returned my love.     
     Love is a gift of Holy Spirit that motivates one to serve God and Christ no matter the reward. It is not that one is blind to what God promises to those who love Him and are obedient to Him, but it is the compelling desire to be where the source of light, love and truth exists; to be united with God and Jesus in that love. 
    “Either way, Christ’s love controls us. Since we believe that Christ died for all, we also believe that we have all died to our old life. He died for everyone so that those who receive his new life will no longer live for themselves. Instead, they will live for Christ, who died and was raised for them.”  2 Cor 5:14,15
    This is the exchange of love between the Father and His Son:  
    After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
     “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
    6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power ofyour name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
    13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.  John 17:1-18
     
     
     
     
     
  14. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Kosonen in WT: The most important thing for Jehovah is to sanctify himself.   
    Sir, I just don’t detect a bit of love that motivates your ideals.   Christ offered himself up to be tortured and killed, to glorify God.  Do you really think he had selfish motives when doing this, or was it out of pure love for his Father?  Each anointed one who walks as Christ walked, bearing his torture stake, would feel the same – love for their Father AND for Christ, as his "Bride".  Yes, they know there is a reward, just as Christ knew,  but a faithful anointed one is motivated to obey God and Christ, first and foremost, out of love.
    Mark 12:29-31; 1 Cor chapter 13
  15. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in WT: The most important thing for Jehovah is to sanctify himself.   
    Sir, I just don’t detect a bit of love that motivates your ideals.   Christ offered himself up to be tortured and killed, to glorify God.  Do you really think he had selfish motives when doing this, or was it out of pure love for his Father?  Each anointed one who walks as Christ walked, bearing his torture stake, would feel the same – love for their Father AND for Christ, as his "Bride".  Yes, they know there is a reward, just as Christ knew,  but a faithful anointed one is motivated to obey God and Christ, first and foremost, out of love.
    Mark 12:29-31; 1 Cor chapter 13
  16. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in IBSA, ORIGINAL INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS.   
    The plot does thicken, but what can we expect with the Watchtower.
    Here's more food for thought, from a few with extraordinary views at times.  It looks like some info you have already found.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/JehovahsWitnesses/comments/89naxc/the_greatest_act_of_apostasy_the_watchtower_owns/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body
      
     
  17. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    Excellent!
  18. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in IBSA, ORIGINAL INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS.   
    To add to the confusion:
    Corporations outside the United States
    International Bible Students Association
    The International Bible Students Association (IBSA) is a corporate not-for-profit organization used by Jehovah's Witnesses in the United Kingdom for the production and distribution of religious literature. Its stated purpose is "to promote the Christian religion by supporting congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses and others in connection with their spiritual and material welfare in Britain and abroad within the charitable purposes of the Association."[22]
    The IBSA was founded in 1914 as a corporation of the Bible Students by Charles Taze Russell in London, England, and was the first legal corporation representing Russell's ministry in Europe. The Watch Tower Society stated in 1917 that the IBSA, along with its Pennsylvania and New York based corporations "were organized for identical purposes and they harmoniously work together."[23] Other similarly named corporations operate in various countries to promote the interests of Jehovah's Witnesses.[24]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporations_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses
     
    Also... https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/24472/watchtower-society-evil-slave-proof
     
     
  19. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in IBSA, ORIGINAL INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS.   
    To add to the confusion:
    Corporations outside the United States
    International Bible Students Association
    The International Bible Students Association (IBSA) is a corporate not-for-profit organization used by Jehovah's Witnesses in the United Kingdom for the production and distribution of religious literature. Its stated purpose is "to promote the Christian religion by supporting congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses and others in connection with their spiritual and material welfare in Britain and abroad within the charitable purposes of the Association."[22]
    The IBSA was founded in 1914 as a corporation of the Bible Students by Charles Taze Russell in London, England, and was the first legal corporation representing Russell's ministry in Europe. The Watch Tower Society stated in 1917 that the IBSA, along with its Pennsylvania and New York based corporations "were organized for identical purposes and they harmoniously work together."[23] Other similarly named corporations operate in various countries to promote the interests of Jehovah's Witnesses.[24]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporations_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses
     
    Also... https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/24472/watchtower-society-evil-slave-proof
     
     
  20. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Little Joe in 1914   
    Excellent!
  21. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Little Joe in 1914   
    "Conquering" involves battle:
    " And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation."  Rev 13:5-7
    War using blasphemy - "slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another's good name"
    Such as, "honor" the elders, do not give "honor" to the anointed.  They cannot join together and study as a united group.  Can't you see? Such slander is needed to preserve the wicked slave's power and the organization/idol she currently "rides".  Rev 17:3-6
    And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."  Rev 16:13,14
    Those "kings" belong to Christ!  Rev 1:5,6
     
  22. Confused
    Witness got a reaction from Little Joe in 1914   
    The Mark of the Beast of Rev 13:18 is the application of a physical, emotional and spiritual identification of serving and submitting oneself to the Wild Beast; to its mission, teachings by a false prophet that it directs (Beast from the Earth, Rev 13:11,12)  and allowance of its controlling power over an individual. This servitude begins with baptism in the organization; it continues through submission to its philosophies and expectations of only “buying and selling” spiritual “food” that it offers – no matter the quality.  Matt 12:34,35; Rev 13:16,17
    This mark contradicts the identifying mark we should be bearing:
    “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.”  Deut 4:5-8
    Hopefully, you see the difference.  We can’t profess to symbolically tie God’s commandments on our hands and foreheads, and also follow the commands and doctrines of men that have been proven to be wrong.  This is idolatry.  
    The “two witnesses” of Rev 11:3, reject the “mark of the Beast” and are “killed” for doing so. Rev 11:7 They come off “victorious”.  These are the symbolic “two” (meaning truth) anointed witnesses who stand with Christ.  (Zech 4) We cannot be considered victorious about anything, unless we conquer it.
     In your physical view that the UN/nations is the Beast, you would have to accept that a literal death would occur to the literal two anointed ones who had at one point accepted the “mark” of the Beast (which some believe is also literal), and then be physically killed later, for rejecting it.  This is nonsense.
     
    “I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
    19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
    21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”  Rev 3:15-22
     Jesus doesn’t offer us material riches, but the riches of Truth and Life.  Those who are wretched and poor, are buying their spiritual food from a false prophet and the organization it directs -  the two Beasts of Revelation.  JWs are content to rely on the Beasts to feed them, instead of Christ. Although they believe they serve only God, and bear His mark, they bear the “mark” of those whom they wholeheartedly support, the earthly endeavors of men and their doctrine.   Matt 6:24; 2 Tim 4:3,4
    To prove that the Beast of Revelation 13:1,2 is the Watchtower and houses JWs, Revelation 15 reveals the victorious ones, who were sensible enough to accept Christ’s discipline and his “gold”,  and remove the “mark of the Beast”:
    I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed. 2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass glowing with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and its image and over the number of its name. They held harps given them by God 3 and sang the song of God’s servant Moses and of the Lamb:
    “Great and marvelous are your deeds,
        Lord God Almighty.
    Just and true are your ways,
        King of the nations.
    4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
        and bring glory to your name?
    For you alone are holy.
    All nations will come
        and worship before you,
    for your righteous acts have been revealed.”  Rev 15:1-4
     
    All who remove the “mark of the Beast” and turn to Christ, fully accepting his discipline and his truth, bearing only God’s commandments on their forehead and on their hands, profess the True God and the Lamb, as our salvation.
    They reject idolatry:
    Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1  Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization 
    "Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."  
     
     
     
     http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-letter-i-received-hi-sister-pearl-i.html
  23. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Little Joe in 1914   
    Well, you had better get ready for every JW to be taken captive by the United Nations/Beast. Rev 13:10  They will be “captured” by the “empty philosophy” of  the UN and its religious conglomerate.  Col 2:8 
    In your world, that coalition of nations will target and “blaspheme” the Temple/anointed priests, (Rev 13:5)  somehow singling them out of 8 million people,  to “make war” with them. Dan 8:24,11; Rev 13:6   The "saints" will be conquered. Rev 13:7   Yet, before that happens, all JWs will “worship” the United Nations, willingly bearing its mark. Rev 13:16,17 They will say, “Who is like the United Nations, who can fight a war with it?”  Rev 13:4  As you now see, there is a developing cry of “peace and security” by the dual Beasts. It endeavors to proclaim "peace and security" for all who receive its mark.  1 Thess 5:3 
    Since you see things literally, some JWs under its captivity will then stand up to this UN Beast,  and will be physically killed for speaking out against the dual rulership of a false prophet and Beast organization over them. Rev 13:1,2,11,12  Yes, if they reject the identifying mark of the UN Beast, they are killed.   Yet, many JWs will choose to remain with the UN Beast.  Rev 14:9-10; 16:2 
    Can you see THIS coming?  This is the only way it can play out in your literal world.  Can you also tell me how the UN  will become “spirit-directed”? Rev 13:15 
    No other organization touts to be spirit-directed (“spirit breathed”), but the Watchtower. Rev 13:15
    Satan is making his obvious display of prophetic fulfillment in the world, but in the hand he holds behind his back, is the threat that God’s people are already under.  JWs believe they reside in "peace and security".  Your leaders have even written a book about it.  
  24. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    Excellent!
  25. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    Generally said, all teachings that are not approved by God and Jesus are "dangerous" in various levels of danger. Because such teachings not bring people closer to more proper view, perspective on things (i would avoid wording as "closer to truth"), but doing contrary. 
    Ezekiel book 3:18,19
     
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