Witness

On this particular matter anyway. The next line after Prov 3:5,6 is verse 7: "Do not become wise in your own eyes." I think that the majority of witnesses back in the 1970's were already aware that any discussion of prophetic books or chronology was always written by him or was a repetition of ideas he had already written. This goes all the way back to discussions of every Bible book or passage that touched on prophecy since 1942. In the 1968 Watchtower he was actually arguing against points he himself had made in 1955. But books and articles on Isaiah, Jeremiah, Revelation, Daniel, Haggai, etc., along with obscure meanings of Jesus' parables were all from him, and except for his own changes, no one else dared "mess" with those explanations until he died.
These interpretations of prophecy, also, were not written in such a way that they were open to questioning. There was one explanation and it was "the truth" until he changed it.

Isa 55:8,9; Num 23:19
Fred Franz had more faith in himself, than in God.  Prov 3:5,6

Isa 55:8,9; Num 23:19
Fred Franz had more faith in himself, than in God.  Prov 3:5,6

Isa 55:8,9; Num 23:19
Fred Franz had more faith in himself, than in God.  Prov 3:5,6

I'm saying that all the argumentation was put to use in order to counter the cautionary statements, even cautionary statements of Jesus himself. And look at the expressions and how carefully they were crafted to come as close as possible to saying what people were admittedly thinking. And they were encouraged to think that these conclusions were the ones that God would consider the most appropriate and most fitting and the one that would best fit his loving purpose. Note the question at the bottom of the page for this paragraph in "Life Everlasting:"
30  LIFE EVERLASTING-IN FREEDOM OF THE SONS OF GOD
43 HOW appropriate it would be for Jehovah God
to make of this coming seventh period of a thousand
years a sabbath period of rest and release,
a great Jubilee sabbath for the proclaiming of
liberty throughout the earth to all its inhabitants!
This would be most timely for mankind. It would
also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember,
mankind has yet ahead of it what the last book
of the Holy Bible speaks of as the reign of Jesus
Christ over earth for a thousand years, the millennial
reign of Christ. Prophetically Jesus Christ,
when on earth nineteen centuries ago, said concerning
himself: "For Lord of the sabbath is
what the Son of man is." (Matthew 12:s) It
would not be by mere chance or accident but
would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah
God for the reign of Jesus Christ, the
"Lord of the sabbath," to run parallel with the
seventh millennium of man's existence.
--------
43. What act on God's part would be most timely for mankind
and most fitting in the fulfillment of Jehovah's purpose?

The answer obviously is that it would be most fitting for God to make this upcoming 7th period of 1,000 years to be the start of the millennial reign of Christ.
Is God going to do something that is NOT the most timely and most fitting thing for him to do? The paragraph started out saying how "appropriate" it would be for Jehovah to do this. Is Jehovah going to do something that is NOT appropriate, or LESS appropriate than what is appropriate for him to do?
It's also pretty clear from this "hubris" why Frederick Franz was sometimes called "the Oracle." This is an expression I heard myself more than once.

Well, they do live in a big compound, the Watchtower organization. Rev 13:1 Even though scattered throughout the world, they are still “gathered” under an oppressive rule.  Rev 13:5-8; 16:13-16
Are the “helpers” of the GB all anointed, or are any of them anointed?   Is the writing staff made up of anointed ones?  It seems to be something that could be accomplished, if it is God's organization.
 
I hope someday soon you open your eyes. 
Watchtower 1/16 pp. 22-27:
Jehovah’s holy spirit helps his servants to be humble, not proud. (Colossians 3:12) So anointed ones do not think that they are better than others.  (simplified version)
Is it pride to speak truth that comes from the heart?  What about the elders?  Are they not given “honor” for their exalted position over God’s chosen priesthood,  while the anointed are told to be “humble”?   What they really mean, is, “listen, obey and be blessed”…by the governing body.
They know that Jehovah does not necessarily give anointed ones more holy spirit than he gives his other servants. And they do not feel that they can understand Bible truths more deeply than anyone else.
Not according to scripture.  Holy spirit is poured into the heart of the anointed one.  This is what an anointing is.  God’s laws are written on their heart to allow them to teach believers.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 8:10 (please read)  If they are united together, able to speak and meet together as one body under Christ, their High Priest, they all receive Holy Spirit and knowledge from the vine. Rom 12:3-8; 1 Cor 12:4-31; Eph 4:12; John 15:5  This is no different than what the early anointed ones were able to do under Paul’s direction, but in the case of the GB, it is pure threat to their counterfeit headship.
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.  1 John 2:27
The Watchtower declares this the desire to bond (at the prompting of Holy Spirit) as the desire to become part of an “elite club”, which is exactly what the governing body has accomplished – an elite closed-door club that judges and condemns God’s priesthood for speaking what is in their heart, for seeking out their brothers and sisters in Christ. 
In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study.
When someone realizes they are anointed, do you know who interrogates them?  The elder body who are not anointed.  They must accept and approve, that this individual can and will partake.  As I’ve said before, many don’t partake because of possible negativity coming from the elders.  Firstly, In a sea of 150+  people on a memorial night, there may be 0-2 who are anointed. Where do all eyes strain to look when someone partakes?   What doubts, what questions arise in a JW’s mind?  I’ve heard the gossip about partakers, I know the elders have been known to threaten and prevent an anointed one from partaking.
Don’t believe me?  How many elder pedophiles have been well hidden by the organization? How many victims have been threatened if they were to report a perpetrator to the police?  Their given role is one of authority that can’t be questioned, whereas the anointed are scrutinized thoroughly.  Why?  Men didn’t appointment them, it can’t be seen so why believe it?  Elders are visibly christened as “priests” to replace the appointed priests of God’s Temple.  1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2
Secondly , who did Jesus invite to the Last Supper?  Every believer, or only those he chose?  Shouldn’t the memorial be observed as it was on that night?  Matt 18:20  Who manipulates how the memorial is observed?  A "wicked slave" and its henchmen who carry out their wishes.  
Jesus is the cornerstone of the Temple, the apostles and prophets are the foundation.  The remnant of these “living stones” are the anointed who if faithful only to their Head, Jesus Christ will complete the “captstone”.  Zech 4:7-10    What right to do men have who are not anointed, to direct their worship?  
“Therefore, it would be embarrassing for those with a heavenly calling if others were to give them undue praise or attention. Worse still, if they received special treatment, anointed Christians might find it difficult to remain humble.”
I would say it is the elder body that is given special treatment, wouldn’t you?
Do you really believe an anointed one who perceives scriptures differently than the regulated spiritual commerce coming from the GB can do this, with no questions asked?  Many anointed are disfellowshipped for doing so.  I was.  Rev 13:6,7,15 
 Spiritual food in the organization is managed, just as literal money is managed in a pyramid scheme.  One can “buy” regulated spiritual food through their dedication to the organization (becoming slaves to men Acts 5:29) which comes down from the top. God and Christ have no hand in this type of commerce.    They “sell” to others using the specified “products” – literature, doctrine, etc.  And, as in a pyramid scheme, no one watches their back.  
Wikipedia:
“Companies that use MLM models for compensation have been a frequent subject of criticism and lawsuits. Criticism has focused on their similarity to illegal pyramid schemes, price fixing of products, high initial entry costs (for marketing kit and first products), emphasis on recruitment of others over actual sales, encouraging if not requiring members to purchase and use the company's products, exploitation of personal relationships as both sales and recruiting targets, complex and exaggerated compensation schemes, the company and/or leading distributors making major money off training events and materials, and cult-like techniques which some groups use to enhance their members' enthusiasm and devotion”
Translate this into the Watchtower realm of the “buying and selling” of spiritual provisions sourced in men’s doctrines from the parent ‘company’, Satan, (men’s doctrines that change regularly are not from the Father or Christ, but from their lying father.)…
…the “high initial entry cost” of forfeiting one’s identity over to an organization, “exploitation” – the oppressive treatment of Christ’s brothers under a wicked slave, and certainly an “exaggerated compensation scheme” called “peace and security” that all buy into. Rev 13:16,17; Matt 24:15,48-51; Dan 8:10; Rev 11:2; 2 Cor 11:3,4; 1 Thess 5:3; Jer 23:17 
Do you care about the Kingdom to come?  Then, get to know the role that anointed ARE to play in this fulfillment and the perils they face not in the world of politics, but at the hands of their own people.  The Temple of God, which the anointed are, is a "holy place".  (1 Cor 3:16,17)  The "disgusting thing standing in the holy place" are the elders - "man of lawlessness" who rule over them.   Matt 24:15,16  Do you believe in God's Kingdom the elders will "rule" over the anointed  "priests and kings"?  Rev 5:9,10   Then why now?  
 

“I have told you these things to keep you from stumbling. 2 They will ban you from the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering service to God.  John 16:1,2
"Ban" - disfellowshipping/shunning
"kill" - disfelloshipping/shunning
 

Ps 119:30 – “The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.”
Dear JWs,
Can an idol hear the words of God?  Idolatry is sourced in the spirit of the world, where Satan wields his authority. 1 John 5:19  An idol cannot speak the words of God, aiding others to reach the light of understanding and truth.   John 17:17 
An idol has no compassion toward those in need, extending its hand to comfort the afflicted and those suffering in sorrow; fully able to sense their needs.   It cannot comprehend the examples of love and compassion we have in Christ.  Matt 11:28-30   
If an idol is unable to hear and speak the Word of God in Christ, then surely we know it can never walk in the path of Christ, or shine the light of truth when under the power of the wicked one.    1 Sam 12:21; Ps 119:1-5
Can an earthly fabrication, run by men, EVER bring salvation to ANYONE who joins it?  And what if it does purport to be the way to salvation; can those who represent it, hear, speak, and walk in the Word of God and the path of Christ?  No.  It would be an act of rebellion to assign salvation to anything other than the name that scripture declares as our salvation. Its leaders would be false teachers, appearing as “ministers of light”, “holding to a form of godliness, although having denied its power”.   Ps 18:2; Acts 4:12; 2 Cor 11:13-15; 2 Tim 3:5   
 Yes, idolatry IS an act of rebellion against God.  Ezek 20:8;Ps 78:58  
How do you feel about the following proclamation by your leaders, JWs?
Watchtower 1981/11/15:  “come to Jehovah’s ORGANIZATION for SALVATION”   pg 16-21 par 18
“There are those who rebel against the light, who do not know its ways or stay in its paths.” Job 24:13
If we take another fork in the Watchtower’s twisted road to “salvation”, what do your leaders say?
Watchtower 90/11/1 p. 26 – “We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry – be it worshipful gestures toward an IMAGE OR SYMBOL or the imputing of SALVATION to a PERSON or an ORGANIZATION. 
Please, think about this the next time you view an exJW as an “apostate”.  Do you know that the most threatening “apostates” to the organization are those who have turned fully to God and Christ?  Why?  They do not hide their “lamp” under a basket, but speak the Word of God boldly for all of you to hear.  The Word of God is truth, which exposes the Watchtower’s idolatrous identity.  Luke 11:33; Rev 11:1-3; 13:1,5,11,14-17  
There is no need to return to “Jehovah’s organization”, since it is, according to the above Watchtower quote, an IDOL.  Those who desire to walk in the light of Christ, seek out the pure words of God, untainted by men, their decrees and twisted reasoning.  They have come to know that the Father does not stand on equal ground with an organization, but He alone is our Rock and our fortress.  Isa 46:5; 42:8; 2:7-10  
They have found the true God. They have returned to pure worship. Isa 57:13; Ps 24:3,4
Watchtower 1953/3/1 p. 143:  “Ask yourself now, Did Christ Jesus, who set our example and told us to follow his example to gain life, join any church ORGANIZATION in his day?  No.  GOD DOES NOT REQUIRE US TO DO THAT; but he requires us to worship him…  We have the Bible to show us the right way.  CERTAINLY IT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR A PERSON TO BECOME A MEMBER OF A CHURCH TO GAIN EVERLASTING LIFE.”
Who then, is the apostate?  One who stays clear of worldly organizations and worships in “spirit and truth”, or is it you, and your leaders who have rebelled against God by glorifying “Jehovah’s organization”?    Please, reject the Watchtower Idol, JWs.  As with all idols, this one is destined to topple soon.  John 4:23,24  
 
Psalm 115:
Not to us, YHVH, not to us,
but to Your name give glory
because of Your faithful love, because of Your truth.
2 Why should the nations say,
“Where is their God?” 
3 Our God is in heaven
and does whatever He pleases.
4 Their idols are silver and gold,
made by human hands.
5 They have mouths but cannot speak,
eyes, but cannot see.
6 They have ears but cannot hear,
noses, but cannot smell.
7 They have hands but cannot feel,
feet, but cannot walk.
They cannot make a sound with their throats.

8 Those who make them are just like them,
as are all who trust in them.
9 House of Israel, trust in YHVH!
He is their help and shield.

10 House of Aaron, trust in YHVH!
He is their help and shield.

11 You who fear the Lord, trust in YHVH!
He is their help and shield.

12 The Lord remembers us and will bless us.
He will bless the house of Israel;
he will bless the house of Aaron;
13 he will bless those who fear the Lord—
small and great alike.
14 May the Lord add to your numbers,
both yours and your children’s.
15 May you be blessed by the Lord,
the Maker of heaven and earth.
16 The heavens are the Lord’s heavens
but the earth he has given to the children of men.

17 It is not the dead who praise the Lord,
nor any of those descending into the silence of death.
18 But we will bless the Lord,
both now and forever.
Praise the Lord!
 
Pearl Doxsey 
    "Can the Watchtower Crumble?"
    "Who is the False Prophet that Gives Breath to the Image of the Beast?"
 
 
 
 

If there is not a clear demarcation of the priesthood/anointed ones in the organization, we have to ask ourselves why.  In Israel, it was evident who were of the line of Aaron and who should serve as a priest.  If the Watchtower organization belongs to God and Christ, then again there would be no question who his priests are, under our High Priest, Christ. 
Jesus said you will recognize those whom he sends by their fruits – their teachings as his priests.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; John 13:20; Matt 7:15-20   He also said there would be a ruling power over them during the last days that would remove their “sacrifices” of praise; their voice, before God and Jesus.   Dan 7:7,8,21,23,25; 8:10; Rev 13:1,11; Heb 13:15
Not until his priests speak up using their spiritual voice in defense of Christ; causing them to be “killed”/disfellowshipped and detached from the ruling power,  (John 16:2) will we then have the ability to hear/see their fruits.  In the organization, the anointed priesthood is kept under lock and key in obedience to the counterfeit priests, the elder body, and a wicked slave.  Rev 13:11-15 
This results in anonymity.  Would God’s organization allow this to exist? 
“But you and your sons with you shall attend to your priesthood for everything concerning the altar and inside the veil, and you are to perform service. I am giving you the priesthood as a bestowed service, but the *outsider who comes near shall be put to death."  Num 18:7
“Have you not driven out the priests of the LORD, the sons of Aaron and the Levites, and made for yourselves priests like the peoples of other lands? Whoever comes to consecrate himself with a young bull and seven rams, even he may become a priest of what are no gods. 2 Chron 13:9
This early arrangement of worship was made according to the “heavenly pattern” shown Moses on the mountain.  We now have a superior High Priest, the cornerstone of the Temple of God. Heb 7:26  His “living stones” /priesthood of that Temple must be servants only to their High Priest and God. 1 Cor 3:16,17   If the Watchtower organization belongs to God, we would clearly see this in action.  Instead, we see the power of men publicly announcing to God’s priesthood, not to BOND together under their only High Priest, Jesus Christ.  This is all accomplished under a cloak of divine direction. 
Who would be behind this idea, the backbone promoting a lie?  Who does not want to see the coming Kingdom of God and the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise (“woman”)?  Gen 3:14,15; Rev 12:7,9,17
Who can easily dupe people with the offer of riches, power and authority; which during the time of the end, conquers God’s priesthood with lies?  Luke 4:5-7; Matt 24:24; Rev 13:11,12,1,2,5-7; 2 Cor 11:14,15
 
 

If there is not a clear demarcation of the priesthood/anointed ones in the organization, we have to ask ourselves why.  In Israel, it was evident who were of the line of Aaron and who should serve as a priest.  If the Watchtower organization belongs to God and Christ, then again there would be no question who his priests are, under our High Priest, Christ. 
Jesus said you will recognize those whom he sends by their fruits – their teachings as his priests.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; John 13:20; Matt 7:15-20   He also said there would be a ruling power over them during the last days that would remove their “sacrifices” of praise; their voice, before God and Jesus.   Dan 7:7,8,21,23,25; 8:10; Rev 13:1,11; Heb 13:15
Not until his priests speak up using their spiritual voice in defense of Christ; causing them to be “killed”/disfellowshipped and detached from the ruling power,  (John 16:2) will we then have the ability to hear/see their fruits.  In the organization, the anointed priesthood is kept under lock and key in obedience to the counterfeit priests, the elder body, and a wicked slave.  Rev 13:11-15 
This results in anonymity.  Would God’s organization allow this to exist? 
“But you and your sons with you shall attend to your priesthood for everything concerning the altar and inside the veil, and you are to perform service. I am giving you the priesthood as a bestowed service, but the *outsider who comes near shall be put to death."  Num 18:7
“Have you not driven out the priests of the LORD, the sons of Aaron and the Levites, and made for yourselves priests like the peoples of other lands? Whoever comes to consecrate himself with a young bull and seven rams, even he may become a priest of what are no gods. 2 Chron 13:9
This early arrangement of worship was made according to the “heavenly pattern” shown Moses on the mountain.  We now have a superior High Priest, the cornerstone of the Temple of God. Heb 7:26  His “living stones” /priesthood of that Temple must be servants only to their High Priest and God. 1 Cor 3:16,17   If the Watchtower organization belongs to God, we would clearly see this in action.  Instead, we see the power of men publicly announcing to God’s priesthood, not to BOND together under their only High Priest, Jesus Christ.  This is all accomplished under a cloak of divine direction. 
Who would be behind this idea, the backbone promoting a lie?  Who does not want to see the coming Kingdom of God and the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise (“woman”)?  Gen 3:14,15; Rev 12:7,9,17
Who can easily dupe people with the offer of riches, power and authority; which during the time of the end, conquers God’s priesthood with lies?  Luke 4:5-7; Matt 24:24; Rev 13:11,12,1,2,5-7; 2 Cor 11:14,15
 
 

Can't you see this as the perfect setup for a "Wicked Slave" to wield authority over Christ's other slaves?  Matt 24:48-51  It shows the organization for the scam it is; not only are the anointed scattered, they CANNOT bond, according to your magazines.  They cannot reveal their identity as one of Christ's slaves.    That would threaten the rule of the GB.  Yes, it is clever how the anointed in the organization are unable to "dispense spiritual food", even if by letter form to the ruling authority.  Luke 22:24-27  It is easier to throw them out, rather than let them gather and bring their own spiritual food to the table.  John 16:2    
 

Can't you see this as the perfect setup for a "Wicked Slave" to wield authority over Christ's other slaves?  Matt 24:48-51  It shows the organization for the scam it is; not only are the anointed scattered, they CANNOT bond, according to your magazines.  They cannot reveal their identity as one of Christ's slaves.    That would threaten the rule of the GB.  Yes, it is clever how the anointed in the organization are unable to "dispense spiritual food", even if by letter form to the ruling authority.  Luke 22:24-27  It is easier to throw them out, rather than let them gather and bring their own spiritual food to the table.  John 16:2    
 

Just one moment for say something as general conversation :)))
In this part of world in that period of time (until 1988/89, with fall of Wall and democratic changes in East Europe and in Yugoslavia) there is no alternative service. After, with time, came optional services with this GB "philosophy". Who is in charge and order service? Nonsense of sort, for sure.
Today, looking on my period in prison, jail, and obligation on going to army, I came to conclusion how decision to reject army service is more decision of WT Corporation aka JW Church than my clear conscience stand on  matter. Perhaps i assured my self it is my conscience, but in fact it was about behavior according to group (JW congregation) i was belong in that time. It was expected to do it that way. 
Similar as to  expectations and obligation on JW brothers to not wearing beards :)))). If you want be ok for God, for congregation, do shave every day :))) Issue is not for comparison, but "principle" coming from same idea. To be different, to not to be "part of the world", "to be holy".
Levels of our obligations and obeys to man, is in gradation. You will obey something to certain level, until your "conscience" or belonging to particular group, or Bible verse (interpretation of that verse) said you to NOT doing or obey man, authority or so.
Similar is with army service. If young man wearing uniform, running whole day to get condition, cleaning, learning about weapons, shooting and so ... but not hurt anyone, then some will find such activity to be acceptable. When somebody order you to kill other people, that is situation in what you must have your stand and do as you think is right.
Some religious groups are very active in "proselytizing", preaching to other people. Some have unique "uniforms" and others are "civilians". But their "service" as "soldier of Christ" or "soldier" of their church, can bring also some good and some very bad results. This religious service in the name of god are called "spiritual battles". And all such "soldiers" are able, in spiritual sense, accidentally or purposely, to hurt and to "kill" other people with, sometimes,  persistent consequences. Religious teachings are the "bullets".
Parable...... Well, FDS aka GB are "Army officers" for 8 mil JW members. Would you as  an ordinary JW  rank and file "soldier" obey all commands coming from GB "superior authority"?? 
   

Isaiah 66: 5  Hear the word of Jehovah, you who tremble at his word:“Your brothers who hate you and exclude you because of my name said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ But He will appear and bring you joy, And they are the ones who will be put to shame.”
The WT organization wrongfully excludes sincere believers in Jehovah God and his word. Looks like this prophecy in Isaiah is just about that.

Yes they are idolaters based on their belief that if you leave a group of men, aka the governing body, you are leaving Jehovah.

If Christ, who is one in Spirit with the Father (John 17:22),  did not know who would betray him when choosing the 12 apostles, then how does the uninspired GB know they are the "faithful and discreet slave"?    Luke 3:8; Matt 7:16

I do agree.
 
We all have free will, anyone can and accept the cleansing Word of Christ…unless we have already chosen and ultimately “sealed” our heart to follow another path.   Jesus knew Judas’ hardened, unbending heart condition,  before he was chosen among the twelve.  Scriptures reveal this fact.  John  13:18 (Ps 41:9); John 8:31
None of the teachings by Christ absolved him of his sins.  John 12:4-6; 13:10,11
His prophetic role is verified in the Hebrew scriptures.  Acts 1:16-20; (Ps 69:25; 109:8)
Free will is expressed by our heart’s desire.  This man’s heart made the free choice to pursue evil before joining with Christ.
While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.  John 17:12
 “The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
10 I, the Lord, search the heart,
I search (examine, investigate) the mind, (the most secret parts)
Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings."  Jer 17:9,10
God knows the end of all things from the beginning, including the sway of our heart.  Isa 46:10
 
 

If Christ, who is one in Spirit with the Father (John 17:22),  did not know who would betray him when choosing the 12 apostles, then how does the uninspired GB know they are the "faithful and discreet slave"?    Luke 3:8; Matt 7:16

But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.  John 12:4-6
Do you really believe it took Jesus that long to find out that Judas was corrupt?  Jesus, who knew the hearts of men?
Here's another example:
"Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat.  When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven".  At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!"  Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?"    Matt 9:2-4
 
Firstly, they state it as fact that Judas was faithful to God and Jesus, then make the supposition that John "must have meant" that Jesus didn't recognize Judas as "bad" until almost a year after he chose him, and that this is what is meant by "from the beginning".  Judas belonged to Satan "from the beginning" as his spawn,  right along with the Pharisees.
 Watchtower’s leaders are so adept at lessening  and hiding the power of Christ; yet, he predicted Peter’s denial of the Christ before Peter fulfilled his words. Luke 22:34    He was a prophet AND the Son of God;  have JWs forgotten this?
I hope you can reason on this through the scriptures, Melinda.  
 
 

“At some point”. Yes, he prayed because he said he did nothing but what the Father told him.  John 5:30; 8:28.  Since God knows all things, do you believe He would keep Judas as the betrayer a secret from Jesus, letting him find out on his own?   You are saying Jesus had no ability given him by God, to read the heart of man. Scriptures say otherwise.  John 2:23-25; 6:64  Judas was chosen as a betrayer.  It sounds like your saying that Jesus was in the dark about who of the 12, would betray him until he proved himself to be a thief.  Both God and Christ knew his heart.  John 2:23-25.  Jesus knew “from the beginning”.  “He knew all men”.   
John 17:12 - While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Do you believe he didn't know how he would die, or that Pilate would be instrumental in sending him to his death at the demand of the Pharisees?  He knew exactly how it would happen and by whom. 
Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”   John 8:54-58
Judas’ role as the betrayer was fulfilled. Ps 41:9; Mark 14:19-21   Jesus’ choice for the twelfth apostle was Paul; another stumbling block most likely, for JWs. He personally chose all 12 apostles, as well as who would betray him.  Matthias was chosen by men, who cast lots. Acts 1:26
Here are examples of Jesus’ knowing what was in the heart of each person even before speaking with them.
Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? Mark 2:6-8
 
When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”48 “How do you know me?” Nathanael asked.
Jesus answered, “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you.” 49 Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.” John 18:47-49
How did Jesus see him?  Spiritually, physically?  How did he determine that Nathaneal had “no deceit” unless he read his heart?  John 18:47-49
 
 
 
 

If Christ, who is one in Spirit with the Father (John 17:22),  did not know who would betray him when choosing the 12 apostles, then how does the uninspired GB know they are the "faithful and discreet slave"?    Luke 3:8; Matt 7:16

But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.  John 12:4-6
Do you really believe it took Jesus that long to find out that Judas was corrupt?  Jesus, who knew the hearts of men?
Here's another example:
"Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat.  When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven".  At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!"  Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?"    Matt 9:2-4
 
Firstly, they state it as fact that Judas was faithful to God and Jesus, then make the supposition that John "must have meant" that Jesus didn't recognize Judas as "bad" until almost a year after he chose him, and that this is what is meant by "from the beginning".  Judas belonged to Satan "from the beginning" as his spawn,  right along with the Pharisees.
 Watchtower’s leaders are so adept at lessening  and hiding the power of Christ; yet, he predicted Peter’s denial of the Christ before Peter fulfilled his words. Luke 22:34    He was a prophet AND the Son of God;  have JWs forgotten this?
I hope you can reason on this through the scriptures, Melinda.  
 
 

But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.  John 12:4-6
Do you really believe it took Jesus that long to find out that Judas was corrupt?  Jesus, who knew the hearts of men?
Here's another example:
"Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat.  When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven".  At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!"  Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?"    Matt 9:2-4
 
Firstly, they state it as fact that Judas was faithful to God and Jesus, then make the supposition that John "must have meant" that Jesus didn't recognize Judas as "bad" until almost a year after he chose him, and that this is what is meant by "from the beginning".  Judas belonged to Satan "from the beginning" as his spawn,  right along with the Pharisees.
 Watchtower’s leaders are so adept at lessening  and hiding the power of Christ; yet, he predicted Peter’s denial of the Christ before Peter fulfilled his words. Luke 22:34    He was a prophet AND the Son of God;  have JWs forgotten this?
I hope you can reason on this through the scriptures, Melinda.  
 
 

But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.  John 6:64
Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”  John 13:10,11
 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did. 24 But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, 25 and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.  John 2:23-25
 
 
 
 

“At some point”. Yes, he prayed because he said he did nothing but what the Father told him.  John 5:30; 8:28.  Since God knows all things, do you believe He would keep Judas as the betrayer a secret from Jesus, letting him find out on his own?   You are saying Jesus had no ability given him by God, to read the heart of man. Scriptures say otherwise.  John 2:23-25; 6:64  Judas was chosen as a betrayer.  It sounds like your saying that Jesus was in the dark about who of the 12, would betray him until he proved himself to be a thief.  Both God and Christ knew his heart.  John 2:23-25.  Jesus knew “from the beginning”.  “He knew all men”.   
John 17:12 - While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
Do you believe he didn't know how he would die, or that Pilate would be instrumental in sending him to his death at the demand of the Pharisees?  He knew exactly how it would happen and by whom. 
Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”   John 8:54-58
Judas’ role as the betrayer was fulfilled. Ps 41:9; Mark 14:19-21   Jesus’ choice for the twelfth apostle was Paul; another stumbling block most likely, for JWs. He personally chose all 12 apostles, as well as who would betray him.  Matthias was chosen by men, who cast lots. Acts 1:26
Here are examples of Jesus’ knowing what was in the heart of each person even before speaking with them.
Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? Mark 2:6-8
 
When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”48 “How do you know me?” Nathanael asked.
Jesus answered, “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you.” 49 Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.” John 18:47-49
How did Jesus see him?  Spiritually, physically?  How did he determine that Nathaneal had “no deceit” unless he read his heart?  John 18:47-49