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Witness

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  1. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in WATCHTOWER'S SHAMELESS FACADE CALLED TRUTH   
    We can do that.   
    We’ve had the full Bible for over 2,000 years.  The words of Christ are not new and have spread worldwide; and we don’t know what the anointed over that time period, accomplished.  We have the guarantee that the Father searches and “weighs” each heart; and would not abandon anyone who desires to serve only Him and His Son – “fully committed” to following His decrees in Christ.    Prov 21:2; 2 Chron 16:9
    Although, judgment begins with God’s House – His people under covenant.  When we see the sins of His people come to light, then we know the end is near.  1 Pet 4:17
    I encourage you to keep seeking out the anointed and the "fruit" they offer (John 13:20; Matt 7:18-20),  remembering that the coming Kingdom of God “does not come with observation”  Luke 17:20,21, but as a “thief in the night”, when God’s people (since judgment begins with His house , Eph 2:20-22) will be saying, “peace and security”.  1 Thess 5:1-3
    Spiritual “peace and security” is offered by “Jehovah’s organization”, where the sins of God’s people are now being brought to light.  Rev 18:4-8
    love in Christ,
    peely
  2. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in WATCHTOWER'S SHAMELESS FACADE CALLED TRUTH   
    OK, John.  This is long, but I hope you give it a try.  
    It was hard for me once leaving the Watchtower; thinking I had to “go” somewhere, because the Watchtower has ingrained this concept into their members.
    Here’s are  examples:
    w06 2/15 pp. 26-30   If I find myself in a situation where changes seem hard to accept, I reflect on Peter’s words to Jesus: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.’ Then I ask myself, ‘Where shall I go away to—out there into the darkness of the world?’ This helps me to hold firmly to God’s organization.”—John 6:68.
    w88 3/15 pp. 15-20    Furthermore, suppose a person was to separate himself from Jehovah’s people. Where could he go? Is he not faced with the same issue that confronted Jesus’ apostles when he asked them if they also wanted to leave him? The apostle Peter rightly replied: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.” (John 6:68) There is nowhere else to go but to “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion, or into the clutches of Satan’s political “wild beast.” (Revelation 13:1; 18:1-5) Largely, disloyal ones who have left Jehovah’s visible organization have made common cause with those in God-dishonoring “Babylon the Great.”
     Simon Peter answered, “Lord, to whom will we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”  John 6:68,69
    Can you see how Christ’s words have been twisted by the WT, making people believe that an organization is the way of salvation, simply because they “preach” Christ?  We both know that the organization cannot provide salvation.
    There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people by which we must be saved.”  Acts 4:12
    The Watchtower, on rare occasions, has supported this scripture by saying:
    Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities
    "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 
    And then, hypocritically turn around to say:
    Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1  Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization 
    "Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."  
    It seems pretty clear to me that I cannot give my allegiance to men’s “organized” way of doing things.  I must rely completely on my faith in Christ and the Father. 
    The man who finally succumbed to the ideals of “organization” first stated:
    Beware of "organization." It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's Word today, and so continue growing in grace and knowledge and love day by day."   CT Russell Watchtower1895/9/15
    In the Watchtower men have become “kings”, ruling over others. (1 Sam 8:6) However, we have our King, Jesus Christ.  As I have said, “leaders” within Christ’s anointed Body, guide people to the King of Kings, Lord of Lords with words spoken in truth, but they do not reign them in through the stipulations driving an organization.   Once earthly organization is introduced, a hierarchy of power is born, which is derived from the realm of Satan. (1 Sam 8:10-18)
    God said,
    Seek the Lord while he may be found;
    call to him while he is near.
    7 Let the wicked one abandon his way
    and the sinful one his thoughts;
    let him return to the Lord,
    so he may have compassion on him,
    and to our God, for he will freely forgive.
    8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    and your ways are not my ways.”
    This is the Lord’s declaration.
    9 “For as heaven is higher than earth,
    so my ways are higher than your ways,
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.  Isa 55:6-9
    Did He say seek an organization?  Are man’s ideals the same as God’s ideals?
    We are to take in “new wine” that Jesus has offered us; new understanding about the new Temple of God built on the anointed ones.  He also said that this new way of worship will be rejected.
     And no one, after drinking old wine, wants new, because he says, ‘The old is better.’”  Luke 5:39
     The anointed are to be organized according to God’s way; yet, at this time period of the end, an “organization” has shattered the Temple, “trampled” God’s anointed House by men who “bind others’ consciences”.  This is the sign of the presence of the Man of Lawlessness.  2 Thess 2:3,4
    Okay, so why are the “Jews” that “ten” men seek out, so hard to find?  Because as I see you doing, you are looking for them to “organize” in the same pattern of the one you left. 
    Restored spiritual “Israel” is “built” with God’s Spirit.  They will be the “capstone”, completing God’s Temple.  Zech 4:8-14; Rev 11:1-3; Matt 18:20  The anointed are gathering, but as small as they are (Amos 7:2); those believers that join them are becoming many. Ezek 36:6-11  They are spiritually “organized” according to the direction of Holy Spirit.  They are a spiritual "congregation", known completely by the Father and Jesus.    They make God’s “name” known; not as an organization that says it makes the name of God known, yet extols the work of man’s hands which the Watchtower has done, and then compare it to God.  Ps 50:16-23; (Isa 46)  Michael, who stands up for his people, proclaims the meaning of his name; “Who is like God?” (Joel 2:32)  The Watchtower and the majority of its members claim, “who or what is like Jehovah’s organization”? 
    All the people of the world were amazed and followed the beast. 4 They worshiped the serpent because it had given authority to the beast. They also worshiped the beast and said, “Who is like the beast? Who can fight a war with it?” Rev 13:3b,4
    The “two witnesses of Christ”/”wise virgins” side with him in this battle of truth against lies.  They do not need an organization as we know it, to do so.  Rev 12:7; 1 Cor 2:10   
    In the first century every apostle was directed by Holy Spirit, not by a “governing body” in Jerusalem.  They may have taken care of a problem together on circumcision, but this doesn’t mean they were organized according to men.  Paul traveled everywhere that the spirit directed him.  Who sent Philip to the Ethiopian eunuch?  A GB?  It was Holy Spirit.  We have never read in the scriptures that the apostles and believers upheld and extolled an “organization” in Jerusalem.  Yet, Paul distinctly taught the anointed ones how they were part of God’s Temple/House. Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 12. He concentrated on bringing this Body together, for them to learn who they were, and how they would serve God in the Kingdom.    If you will consider it, there is a good article on this:  http://holyspiritorgoverningbody-obadiah.blogspot.com/
    During the time that the last Man of Lawless is revealed, what happens?
    Don’t you remember that when I was still with you I used to tell you about this? 6 And you know what currently restrains him, so that he will be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one now restraining will do so until he is out of the way, 8 and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will destroy him with the breath of his mouth and will bring him to nothing at the appearance of his coming. 2 Thess 2:5-8
    Through Holy Spirit, the “two witnesses”/anointed ones “prophesy” and reveal the Man of Lawlessness.   (Rev 4:11,14; Rev 11:1-3)  Their “words”, coming from Christ, judge and condemn.
    The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders,10 and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12 so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but delighted in unrighteousness.  2 Thess 2:9-12
    Do you really believe there is time to “organize” according to men’s direction, another earthly house of worship? John 4:23,24  It wouldn’t be successful.   This is why Jesus said,  “Believe me. A time is coming when you Samaritans won’t be worshiping the Father on this mountain or in the (literal city of) Jerusalem. “  John 4:21
    (I find it interesting that the name “Samaria” means “watch tower”!)
    I feel you may be “kicking against the goads”.  Rely totally on the Father and Christ to lead you to truth.  Check out the links I have given you.  Understand that we are living close to the end.  Armageddon is fought, not in Satan’s earthly realm, but on the “low plain” or valley of decision”, revealing the intentions of the heart’s desires.  Joel 3:14-16; Matt 13:24-30 We either struggle to find and follow Christ and his truths, or rely on men’s twisted interpretation of scripture through organizational means.    Both come to us in totally different ways. 
     
    The plans of the heart belong to humans,
        but an answer on the tongue comes from the Lord.
    2 A person thinks all his ways are pure,
        but the Lord weighs motives.
    3 Entrust your efforts to the Lord,
        and your plans will succeed..  Prov 16:1-3
     
    The end time preaching work is extraordinary; not at all as the Watchtower teaches.  Jesus said this preaching work would be to “Israel” – the anointed ones/Temple. Matt 10:23; Rev 11:1-3  They are the “kings of the earth”, God’s people now gathered in the Watchtower organization.  Rev 1:5; 19:19;21:24 (Rev 5:9,10)  They, along with all inside, are told to “come out of her” and leave her sins behind.  Rev 18:4-8
     
     
     
     
  3. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in WATCHTOWER'S SHAMELESS FACADE CALLED TRUTH   
    Dear JWs,
    Can an earthly organization, with its extended assets in buildings, monetary investments and its pitfalls;  its legal branch, “governmental” branch, production branch, and all branches throughout the world, be the source of salvation for mankind?  Acts 4:12; 17:24,25   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+4%3A12%3B+17%3A24%2C25&version=NIV
    Would our true source of spiritual salvation have any partnership in worldly interests?  Matt 4:8-10; 6:19-21; Col 3:2,5   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+4%3A8-10%3B+6%3A19-21%3B+Col+3%3A2%2C5&version=NIV
    Can Jesus’ pure teachings remain untainted under the influence of an institutional structure formulated by men? 1 Tim 4:16; 2 Tim 4:3; 2 Pet 2:1-3   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Tim+4%3A16%3B+2+Tim+4%3A3%3B+2+Pet+2%3A1-3&version=NIV
    Where does wickedness thrive?  1 John 5:19; Matt 24:10-12; 2 Thess 2:9-12  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+5%3A19%3B+Matt+24%3A10-12%3B+2+Thess+2%3A9-12&version=NIV
    JWs, why do you believe God would bless an entity identical to other organizations in the world?  Rom 12:2; 1 Cor 1:20   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+12%3A2%3B+1+Cor+1%3A20&version=NIV
    ORGANIZATION:  “an administrative and functional structure (such as a business or a political party)
    the personnel of such a structure
    characterized by COMPLETE CONFORMITY TO THE STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS OF AN ORGANIZATION”
     Aren’t Christ’s standards and teachings enough, without polluting them with men’s desire to “organize”, twist and corrupt, what God has made pure?  James 3:15,16; Phil 3:19  No organization in this world can be considered pure and unblemished, since Satan dabbles in all aspects of this world.  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+3%3A15%2C16%3B+Phil+3%3A19++&version=NIV
    The light of Christ and his teachings cannot, and do not abide with the darkness of the world.  John 8:12; James 1:27   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A12%3B+James+1%3A27&version=NIV
    By allowing an organization to motivate you and rule over you with its “organizational” standards, you allow Satan to corrupt the pure Word of God with the teachings of men, who are thieves and wolves in sheep’s clothing. Matt 7:15; John 10:9,10   You no longer believe solely in the Word of God, but a crooked version that robs you of truth, and of the glory of Christ.   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+7%3A15%3B+John+10%3A9%2C10+++&version=NIV
    “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” 2 Cor 4:4
    Please, do not think that the “preaching work” is a sign of success; that somehow God has transgressed His own decrees of purity and blessed the Watchtower, who’s doctrines change continually to cover over previous lies.   An earthly organization formulated by men can never match the requirements of purity set by God.  It can never be considered “Zion” as you are taught. To apply salvation to something created by man, is idolatry. Rom 1:25  But, there are people that God has chosen, who by submitting their hearts to be refined by Christ and his teachings, can reach that purity. 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Mal 3:2,3; Rev 3:18 They are part of the true heavenly Zion, and God is preparing them to teach and serve all His children, in the Kingdom to come.  Rom 8:19-21    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+1%3A25%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%2C10%3B+Mal+3%3A2%2C3%3B+Rev+3%3A18+&version=NIV
    Phil 2:14-16; 1:9-11; 2 Cor 11:2; Heb 12:22; Rev 14:1; 21:2; 14:5    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Phil+2%3A14-16%3B+1%3A9-11%3B+2+Cor+11%3A2%3B+Heb+12%3A22%3B+Rev+14%3A1%3B+21%3A2%3B+14%3A5&version=NIV
    Jesus tells us how God expects us to worship Him.
    John 4:1-54
    You can listen here:  https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/suchet/nivuk/John.4
    Pearl Dosxey "The Sign of the End"  4 womaninthewilderness . blogspot

  4. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in WATCHTOWER'S SHAMELESS FACADE CALLED TRUTH   
    We can do that.   
    We’ve had the full Bible for over 2,000 years.  The words of Christ are not new and have spread worldwide; and we don’t know what the anointed over that time period, accomplished.  We have the guarantee that the Father searches and “weighs” each heart; and would not abandon anyone who desires to serve only Him and His Son – “fully committed” to following His decrees in Christ.    Prov 21:2; 2 Chron 16:9
    Although, judgment begins with God’s House – His people under covenant.  When we see the sins of His people come to light, then we know the end is near.  1 Pet 4:17
    I encourage you to keep seeking out the anointed and the "fruit" they offer (John 13:20; Matt 7:18-20),  remembering that the coming Kingdom of God “does not come with observation”  Luke 17:20,21, but as a “thief in the night”, when God’s people (since judgment begins with His house , Eph 2:20-22) will be saying, “peace and security”.  1 Thess 5:1-3
    Spiritual “peace and security” is offered by “Jehovah’s organization”, where the sins of God’s people are now being brought to light.  Rev 18:4-8
    love in Christ,
    peely
  5. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in WATCHTOWER'S SHAMELESS FACADE CALLED TRUTH   
    OK, John.  This is long, but I hope you give it a try.  
    It was hard for me once leaving the Watchtower; thinking I had to “go” somewhere, because the Watchtower has ingrained this concept into their members.
    Here’s are  examples:
    w06 2/15 pp. 26-30   If I find myself in a situation where changes seem hard to accept, I reflect on Peter’s words to Jesus: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.’ Then I ask myself, ‘Where shall I go away to—out there into the darkness of the world?’ This helps me to hold firmly to God’s organization.”—John 6:68.
    w88 3/15 pp. 15-20    Furthermore, suppose a person was to separate himself from Jehovah’s people. Where could he go? Is he not faced with the same issue that confronted Jesus’ apostles when he asked them if they also wanted to leave him? The apostle Peter rightly replied: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.” (John 6:68) There is nowhere else to go but to “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion, or into the clutches of Satan’s political “wild beast.” (Revelation 13:1; 18:1-5) Largely, disloyal ones who have left Jehovah’s visible organization have made common cause with those in God-dishonoring “Babylon the Great.”
     Simon Peter answered, “Lord, to whom will we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”  John 6:68,69
    Can you see how Christ’s words have been twisted by the WT, making people believe that an organization is the way of salvation, simply because they “preach” Christ?  We both know that the organization cannot provide salvation.
    There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people by which we must be saved.”  Acts 4:12
    The Watchtower, on rare occasions, has supported this scripture by saying:
    Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities
    "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 
    And then, hypocritically turn around to say:
    Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1  Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization 
    "Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."  
    It seems pretty clear to me that I cannot give my allegiance to men’s “organized” way of doing things.  I must rely completely on my faith in Christ and the Father. 
    The man who finally succumbed to the ideals of “organization” first stated:
    Beware of "organization." It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's Word today, and so continue growing in grace and knowledge and love day by day."   CT Russell Watchtower1895/9/15
    In the Watchtower men have become “kings”, ruling over others. (1 Sam 8:6) However, we have our King, Jesus Christ.  As I have said, “leaders” within Christ’s anointed Body, guide people to the King of Kings, Lord of Lords with words spoken in truth, but they do not reign them in through the stipulations driving an organization.   Once earthly organization is introduced, a hierarchy of power is born, which is derived from the realm of Satan. (1 Sam 8:10-18)
    God said,
    Seek the Lord while he may be found;
    call to him while he is near.
    7 Let the wicked one abandon his way
    and the sinful one his thoughts;
    let him return to the Lord,
    so he may have compassion on him,
    and to our God, for he will freely forgive.
    8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    and your ways are not my ways.”
    This is the Lord’s declaration.
    9 “For as heaven is higher than earth,
    so my ways are higher than your ways,
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.  Isa 55:6-9
    Did He say seek an organization?  Are man’s ideals the same as God’s ideals?
    We are to take in “new wine” that Jesus has offered us; new understanding about the new Temple of God built on the anointed ones.  He also said that this new way of worship will be rejected.
     And no one, after drinking old wine, wants new, because he says, ‘The old is better.’”  Luke 5:39
     The anointed are to be organized according to God’s way; yet, at this time period of the end, an “organization” has shattered the Temple, “trampled” God’s anointed House by men who “bind others’ consciences”.  This is the sign of the presence of the Man of Lawlessness.  2 Thess 2:3,4
    Okay, so why are the “Jews” that “ten” men seek out, so hard to find?  Because as I see you doing, you are looking for them to “organize” in the same pattern of the one you left. 
    Restored spiritual “Israel” is “built” with God’s Spirit.  They will be the “capstone”, completing God’s Temple.  Zech 4:8-14; Rev 11:1-3; Matt 18:20  The anointed are gathering, but as small as they are (Amos 7:2); those believers that join them are becoming many. Ezek 36:6-11  They are spiritually “organized” according to the direction of Holy Spirit.  They are a spiritual "congregation", known completely by the Father and Jesus.    They make God’s “name” known; not as an organization that says it makes the name of God known, yet extols the work of man’s hands which the Watchtower has done, and then compare it to God.  Ps 50:16-23; (Isa 46)  Michael, who stands up for his people, proclaims the meaning of his name; “Who is like God?” (Joel 2:32)  The Watchtower and the majority of its members claim, “who or what is like Jehovah’s organization”? 
    All the people of the world were amazed and followed the beast. 4 They worshiped the serpent because it had given authority to the beast. They also worshiped the beast and said, “Who is like the beast? Who can fight a war with it?” Rev 13:3b,4
    The “two witnesses of Christ”/”wise virgins” side with him in this battle of truth against lies.  They do not need an organization as we know it, to do so.  Rev 12:7; 1 Cor 2:10   
    In the first century every apostle was directed by Holy Spirit, not by a “governing body” in Jerusalem.  They may have taken care of a problem together on circumcision, but this doesn’t mean they were organized according to men.  Paul traveled everywhere that the spirit directed him.  Who sent Philip to the Ethiopian eunuch?  A GB?  It was Holy Spirit.  We have never read in the scriptures that the apostles and believers upheld and extolled an “organization” in Jerusalem.  Yet, Paul distinctly taught the anointed ones how they were part of God’s Temple/House. Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 12. He concentrated on bringing this Body together, for them to learn who they were, and how they would serve God in the Kingdom.    If you will consider it, there is a good article on this:  http://holyspiritorgoverningbody-obadiah.blogspot.com/
    During the time that the last Man of Lawless is revealed, what happens?
    Don’t you remember that when I was still with you I used to tell you about this? 6 And you know what currently restrains him, so that he will be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one now restraining will do so until he is out of the way, 8 and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will destroy him with the breath of his mouth and will bring him to nothing at the appearance of his coming. 2 Thess 2:5-8
    Through Holy Spirit, the “two witnesses”/anointed ones “prophesy” and reveal the Man of Lawlessness.   (Rev 4:11,14; Rev 11:1-3)  Their “words”, coming from Christ, judge and condemn.
    The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders,10 and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12 so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but delighted in unrighteousness.  2 Thess 2:9-12
    Do you really believe there is time to “organize” according to men’s direction, another earthly house of worship? John 4:23,24  It wouldn’t be successful.   This is why Jesus said,  “Believe me. A time is coming when you Samaritans won’t be worshiping the Father on this mountain or in the (literal city of) Jerusalem. “  John 4:21
    (I find it interesting that the name “Samaria” means “watch tower”!)
    I feel you may be “kicking against the goads”.  Rely totally on the Father and Christ to lead you to truth.  Check out the links I have given you.  Understand that we are living close to the end.  Armageddon is fought, not in Satan’s earthly realm, but on the “low plain” or valley of decision”, revealing the intentions of the heart’s desires.  Joel 3:14-16; Matt 13:24-30 We either struggle to find and follow Christ and his truths, or rely on men’s twisted interpretation of scripture through organizational means.    Both come to us in totally different ways. 
     
    The plans of the heart belong to humans,
        but an answer on the tongue comes from the Lord.
    2 A person thinks all his ways are pure,
        but the Lord weighs motives.
    3 Entrust your efforts to the Lord,
        and your plans will succeed..  Prov 16:1-3
     
    The end time preaching work is extraordinary; not at all as the Watchtower teaches.  Jesus said this preaching work would be to “Israel” – the anointed ones/Temple. Matt 10:23; Rev 11:1-3  They are the “kings of the earth”, God’s people now gathered in the Watchtower organization.  Rev 1:5; 19:19;21:24 (Rev 5:9,10)  They, along with all inside, are told to “come out of her” and leave her sins behind.  Rev 18:4-8
     
     
     
     
  6. Like
    Witness reacted to Shiwiii in WATCHTOWER'S SHAMELESS FACADE CALLED TRUTH   
    I don't think there has been a time when the gb nor the wt were ever right, but that is just my opinion based on the Bible itself. 
     
    I also do not believe there has to be any organization here on Earth. What you said is true, the apostles did set up churches and taught them the basis of morals based on the Bible, but they did not have an "organization". There was not a group of men running the show, it was God running the show. Now I'm sure some one is going to quote Acts, Romans or Galatians, but one must read those carefully. It is not some gb making a decision, but rather the apostles condemning their practices that were made by men. 
  7. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    A writing department.  Why is it needed?  Because a “Wicked Steward” has ignored what a steward of God’s anointed house must do – manage and gather spiritual provisions from all anointed of the body to “feed” the sheep – themselves and their fellow believers.  Luke 12:42-47
    This is more evidence that Matt 24:48-51 is fulfilled within the WT. 
    “and he then begins to beat his fellow servants,” 
     Kosonen brought out WT quotes proving this. 
     “and to eat and drink with drunkards.”  Matt 24:49   The “drunkards” are the writing department and the elders who administer spiritual “food” that they have sampled before distributing.  They do the Wicked Slave’s bidding, totally drunk on the Harlot/false prophet’s “wine”. 
    On the one hand the GB confer together, apparently to derive spiritual food that Christ provides them.  
    On the other hand, they would be at a loss without a writing department to give them suggestions. 
    Such a conundrum.
  8. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    A writing department.  Why is it needed?  Because a “Wicked Steward” has ignored what a steward of God’s anointed house must do – manage and gather spiritual provisions from all anointed of the body to “feed” the sheep – themselves and their fellow believers.  Luke 12:42-47
    This is more evidence that Matt 24:48-51 is fulfilled within the WT. 
    “and he then begins to beat his fellow servants,” 
     Kosonen brought out WT quotes proving this. 
     “and to eat and drink with drunkards.”  Matt 24:49   The “drunkards” are the writing department and the elders who administer spiritual “food” that they have sampled before distributing.  They do the Wicked Slave’s bidding, totally drunk on the Harlot/false prophet’s “wine”. 
    On the one hand the GB confer together, apparently to derive spiritual food that Christ provides them.  
    On the other hand, they would be at a loss without a writing department to give them suggestions. 
    Such a conundrum.
  9. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Kosonen, thanks for your efforts in searching for WT quotes and presentation of same materials!
    This reveals how GB operates. "Blind" people have one more chance to see The Real Truth. 
  10. Upvote
    Witness reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    16 Not all who have the heavenly hope are part of “the faithful and discreet slave.”   
    (From the same 2016 Watchtower as quoted above by Kosonen) 
    Who has the right to say this ?  Who has the right to put that in print ?  Note is does not say 'those that might think they have the heavenly hope'. It actually says  Not all who have the heavenly hope ... 
    The GB of the JW org approve of this being written and used at meetings of JW's. So the GB themselves are judging the other MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST'S BRIDE. The GB are judging those of the 144,000 chosen ones. 
    Has God or Jesus Christ given the GB the right to do the judging ?  I would not think so. 
  11. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Kosonen in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Look here for example how the GB wants that local anointed would be treated. 
    You are not even allowed to ask the anointed about their anointing!!! I guess you could get disfellowshipped for that? How crazy is not that?
    And paragraph 11 insinuates that the local anointed could well be "false brothers" and imposters. GB just says that to make sure you don't trust your local anointed. That is wicked! 
    Now the GB really discourages to do anything specially for the local anointed. Just the opposite what Jesus told. I wonder how many Jehovah's witnesses will continue that fatal course until the end?
    Here are the recent instructions from GB:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016046#h=18:0-21:581
    10 How can we show appropriate respect for those whom Jehovah chooses to anoint? We would not ask them personal questions about their anointing. We thus avoid meddling with what does not concern us. (1 Thess. 4:11; 2 Thess. 3:11) We should not assume that the parents, spouse, or other relatives of one of the anointed would also be anointed. Genetics or marriage play no part in the process. (1 Thess. 2:12) We should also resist the urge to quiz spouses of anointed ones about how they feel knowing that they will live without their mate in the future earthly Paradise. Rather than raise questions that may cause pain, all of us can have full confidence that Jehovah will open his hand and “satisfy the desire of every living thing.”—Ps. 145:16.
    11. How do we protect ourselves if we avoid “admiring personalities”?
    11 Those who treat anointed Christians in a proper manner protect themselves from an insidious danger. The Scriptures tell us that “false brothers” can slip into the congregation. (Gal. 2:4, 5; 1 John 2:19) These impostors may even claim to be anointed. In addition, some anointed Christians might fall away from the faith. (Matt. 25:10-12;2 Pet. 2:20, 21) If we avoid the trap of “admiring personalities,” we will not be drawn away from the truth by such ones; nor will our faith suffer a crippling blow if a prominent or long-serving Christian becomes unfaithful.—Jude 16, ftn.
  12. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Never say never :))))))))) New light will come on GB ... and what will you do if it will be same or similar to this in our topic? hahhaha 
  13. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    The GB twist scripture to create doctrine.  For not accepting doctrine outside of God's Word , I was disfellowshipped, it wasn’t for rejecting the Word of God. 
    Does it stop with the apostles?  Should the rest of the Temple of God (anointed Body of Christ) begin obeying uninspired men and their false priesthood?  It is clear that this is evidence of a "wicked slave" that "beats" down his fellow slaves into submissiveness.  Matt 24:48-51  The entire congregation is under their thumb.  If the anointed priesthood are not used, then how can the organization call itself Zion?  As John Butler said, "The TRUE Anointed (Temple stones,1 Cor 3:16,17) would know how to use the scriptures properly. "   They would use the law written on their heart to judge and teach in righteousness.  
    Many peoples will come and say,
    “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
        to the temple of the God of Jacob.
    He will teach us his ways,
        so that we may walk in his paths.”
    The law will go out from Zion,
        the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.  Isa 2:3
    If faithful, they will reigning “kings”. Rev 5:9,10  Who is King of Kings?  Rev 19:16  You are expecting others to replace the Head of the Body – Christ.  There is no substitute leader over the anointed ones. 
    Yet, an anointed "leader" of true teachings of Christ does not expect obedience to them, but to the Word. This is how the “saints will judge the world” – not by their opinion, but the Word, the decrees of God fulfilled in Christ, that issues from their hearts. Heb 4:12; 8:10-12  They are to teach the Word of God which leads/directs people to  the Word, - to Christ and the Father.   Mal 2:7; John 13:20 
    This is how they are found to be "faithful and discreet" when Jesus returns.  Matt 25:23
    This is only possible if the same “living water” from Christ fills their heart.  Any deviance from Christ’s teachings, such as doctrine of men, is blasphemy.  It is also blasphemy that Christ’s priests/kings are to obey those not anointed and those who speak falsehoods, which is failed doctrine and “empty words”.  Eph 5:6; Matt 7:15-20
    Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
    Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.  John 7:16
    Matt 7:24-26; 10:12-15; 12:36,37; 19:11; John 7:38, etc.
    If you support others to rule over the anointed, you support spiritual “Gentiles” ruling over spiritual “Jews”/”Israel” – God’s possession.   You support the Man of Lawlessness who has “set himself up” in the Temple of God.  2 Thess 2:3,4,7; Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:14-16
    I do hope you can see this. 
     
     
     
  14. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Absolution.  Isn’t this what reinstatement is?
    Formal release from guilt, obligation, or punishment.
    an ecclesiastical declaration of forgiveness of sins.
    I was raised a Catholic and later became a JW, holding on for over 30 years.  Both religions are the same two-headed coin – one side is the Pope; one, the GB. Both are hierarchical, and both incorporate a false priesthood that judges, condemns and expels. 
     The only difference is, that God’s authentic priesthood (1 Pet 2:5,9)  is held “captive” within the WT and admonished to remain silent.  This isn’t what Paul said they should do. 
     Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?  Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?  Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?  If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge?  I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!  1 Cor 6:1-6
    For you put up with fools gladly, since you yourselves are wise!  For you put up with it if one brings you into bondage, if one devours you, if one takes from you, if one exalts himself, if one strikes you on the face.  2 Cor 11:19-20
    The “saints” carry the law of God within their heart.  A non-anointed elder body does not; so they guide, judge, and rule in wickedness.    Heb 8:10
    “For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge,
    And people should seek the law from his mouth;
    For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.  Mal 2:7
    Because of this situation, what has happened?  Lawsuits, cover ups, disfellowshipping of the righteous, no care for victims or orphans.  It really isn’t any different in the Catholic Church.  Both, are Satan’s fabrications.  Can a leopard change its spots?
    For anyone to suppress God’s priesthood, destroying His Temple and its arrangement,  destruction comes upon them.  I am sorry, but it is written in scripture.  1 Cor 3:16,17  It is lawlessness.  2 Thess 2:3,4, 7,8; Ezek 44:6-9
    I do hope the anointed and all, wake up to this seemingly “beautiful”, organization’s sins.  Jer 13:15-27
     
  15. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    This is now sounding exactly like Allen Smith. 
  16. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    This is now sounding exactly like Allen Smith. 
  17. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    The GB twist scripture to create doctrine.  For not accepting doctrine outside of God's Word , I was disfellowshipped, it wasn’t for rejecting the Word of God. 
    Does it stop with the apostles?  Should the rest of the Temple of God (anointed Body of Christ) begin obeying uninspired men and their false priesthood?  It is clear that this is evidence of a "wicked slave" that "beats" down his fellow slaves into submissiveness.  Matt 24:48-51  The entire congregation is under their thumb.  If the anointed priesthood are not used, then how can the organization call itself Zion?  As John Butler said, "The TRUE Anointed (Temple stones,1 Cor 3:16,17) would know how to use the scriptures properly. "   They would use the law written on their heart to judge and teach in righteousness.  
    Many peoples will come and say,
    “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
        to the temple of the God of Jacob.
    He will teach us his ways,
        so that we may walk in his paths.”
    The law will go out from Zion,
        the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.  Isa 2:3
    If faithful, they will reigning “kings”. Rev 5:9,10  Who is King of Kings?  Rev 19:16  You are expecting others to replace the Head of the Body – Christ.  There is no substitute leader over the anointed ones. 
    Yet, an anointed "leader" of true teachings of Christ does not expect obedience to them, but to the Word. This is how the “saints will judge the world” – not by their opinion, but the Word, the decrees of God fulfilled in Christ, that issues from their hearts. Heb 4:12; 8:10-12  They are to teach the Word of God which leads/directs people to  the Word, - to Christ and the Father.   Mal 2:7; John 13:20 
    This is how they are found to be "faithful and discreet" when Jesus returns.  Matt 25:23
    This is only possible if the same “living water” from Christ fills their heart.  Any deviance from Christ’s teachings, such as doctrine of men, is blasphemy.  It is also blasphemy that Christ’s priests/kings are to obey those not anointed and those who speak falsehoods, which is failed doctrine and “empty words”.  Eph 5:6; Matt 7:15-20
    Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
    Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.  John 7:16
    Matt 7:24-26; 10:12-15; 12:36,37; 19:11; John 7:38, etc.
    If you support others to rule over the anointed, you support spiritual “Gentiles” ruling over spiritual “Jews”/”Israel” – God’s possession.   You support the Man of Lawlessness who has “set himself up” in the Temple of God.  2 Thess 2:3,4,7; Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:14-16
    I do hope you can see this. 
     
     
     
  18. Like
    Witness reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Proper context from who's viewpoint Kid ? 
    Once again you place the GB on high. And it was once the belief that ALL ANOINTED WERE THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE.
    So tell me what scriptures suddenly told your GB that the rest of the ANOINTED are now less important than the GB ? 
    If you rely on your GB and do not rely on God's word and prayer to God through Jesus Christ, then you are in fact SERVING YOUR GB. 
    Quote : Every Christian fellow in the body of Christ obeys God's commandments as instructed by Christ.' 
    So where in the Bible does Christ tell anyone to serve the GB of JW Org ? 
    The main issue here is that the GB of JW Org have proved themselves to be the WICKED SLAVE CLASS so should not be served by anyone. 
  19. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Terminology:  judicial committee and reinstated are clearly, plainly Corporational words in WTJworg inc. Religion.
     The Bible calls people to forgive each other's sins.  The Bible invites us to pray to God in this way:  and forgive us our debts (sins), as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    By MESSAGE in Lord's Prayer, God is very willful to forgive all sins to people, .... in fact he has already done that, even before your birthday. By Jesus words, God is more interested for another thing, that people forgiving each other. Because Jesus speaks of a precondition; "Forgive your neighbor" ... then God will look at you mercifully too.
    If we confess our sins, [God] is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
    “Openly confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may get healed.” 
    By this Bible logic in this 3 places it is not needed to give confess and/or ask for forgiveness from some Legal Religious Body.
    Ones "secret sin" will be "forgiven" if you in your mind and heart "confess" it to God, not to men.
    Another thing is our psychological side and our inside need to "tell someone" about our inside soul problem and turmoil.
    "Sin" aka injustice that ones have done to his neighbor is also separate thing. If you are aware of your bad act toward somebody around you, then you must go to this person who you offend, say bad words, done bad or evil thing. You must confess and ask forgiveness FROM HIM.   
  20. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    I like this thought very much. First time that i saw somebody put it in writing or say it aloud in this simple but distinctive sentence. Bravo John!
  21. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Oops.  If they expect obedience from their anointed “brothers”, they certainly have “substituted” themselves for Christ, robbing the lowly insignificant anointed of their ability to listen only to Christ.    The GB have made it very clear by their  Bible translation, using the word "substitute" twice, for emphasis.  NWT 2 Cor 5:20  Since they claim to be the only "faithful and discreet slave", who other than themselves can "substitute" for Christ?  Matt 24:48-51
    In reality, no one.  No one can substitute as the Head of the anointed Body of Christ.  
    Another oops.  Their false “priesthood”, the elder body, do just that.  Haven't you heard of a "judicial committee"?  They have the power to kick someone out as a sinner, and feel qualified to discern that God has forgiven a sinner, to allow them back in the congregation.
    Where have you been?
     
     
  22. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Oops.  If they expect obedience from their anointed “brothers”, they certainly have “substituted” themselves for Christ, robbing the lowly insignificant anointed of their ability to listen only to Christ.    The GB have made it very clear by their  Bible translation, using the word "substitute" twice, for emphasis.  NWT 2 Cor 5:20  Since they claim to be the only "faithful and discreet slave", who other than themselves can "substitute" for Christ?  Matt 24:48-51
    In reality, no one.  No one can substitute as the Head of the anointed Body of Christ.  
    Another oops.  Their false “priesthood”, the elder body, do just that.  Haven't you heard of a "judicial committee"?  They have the power to kick someone out as a sinner, and feel qualified to discern that God has forgiven a sinner, to allow them back in the congregation.
    Where have you been?
     
     
  23. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Oops.  If they expect obedience from their anointed “brothers”, they certainly have “substituted” themselves for Christ, robbing the lowly insignificant anointed of their ability to listen only to Christ.    The GB have made it very clear by their  Bible translation, using the word "substitute" twice, for emphasis.  NWT 2 Cor 5:20  Since they claim to be the only "faithful and discreet slave", who other than themselves can "substitute" for Christ?  Matt 24:48-51
    In reality, no one.  No one can substitute as the Head of the anointed Body of Christ.  
    Another oops.  Their false “priesthood”, the elder body, do just that.  Haven't you heard of a "judicial committee"?  They have the power to kick someone out as a sinner, and feel qualified to discern that God has forgiven a sinner, to allow them back in the congregation.
    Where have you been?
     
     
  24. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in GB MEMBER KENNETH COOK, JR. AND THE WATCHTOWER HOUSE   
    I certainly hear you.  My concentration level has never been good.  I'm always asking in prayer for the ability to discipline my mind and keep it on the right track.  I believe it's called  "ADD". 
     
  25. Like
    Witness reacted to JOHN BUTLER in GB MEMBER KENNETH COOK, JR. AND THE WATCHTOWER HOUSE   
    I will set some time aside to look deeper into all this. My concentration level is not good, but i will make time to follow the links and research. Thank you. 
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