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Witness

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  1. Sad
    Witness reacted to JOHN BUTLER in DAVID SPLANE'S BROADCAST ON THE TEN VIRGINS   
    They are fully content waiting to enter paradise.
    No, they are fully content believing the lies of the GB and Elders. It means they don't have to think for themselves.
  2. Sad
    Witness reacted to JOHN BUTLER in ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE   
    @Space Merchant Quote : "Plus this should be discussion with those of your circle rather than here" 
    I don't have a circle. Jehovah's Witnesses are 'encouraged' not to socialize with 'people in the world'.  That means only mix with other JW's. Hence now that i am no longer a JW i have been completely shunned by all of them. That amounts to well over 100 people locally...  100 people that will not speak to me, not even to say hello. 
    So I have only my wife and son for company. My son is at work most days and my wife spends time with her mum and our daughters and grandchildren.  Hence i had spent so much time working at the 'Big House', most days alone. 
    That is why i brought the problem here. Even before i put it up on here I had gone to my bedroom and prayed to God and cried about it. It hurts me, the problem itself, the people involved, and not knowing what to do. 
     
  3. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE   
    John, you are in the UK, right?   My son worked for Child and Family Services in the U.S.  He has said that the people who decide not to report anything are usually doing more harm than good.  In doing some research, the UK has a child protection services  - NSPCC.  https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/
    "Don't wait until you're certain if you are worried about a child. If you have any concerns or suspicions, contact our free helpline service to speak to an NSPCC counsellor 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
    We will listen to your concerns, offer advice and support and can take action on your behalf if a child is in danger.
    You don’t have to tell us who you are if you don’t want to, or you can ask us not to share your name or contact with the police or social services. Find out more about how you can remain anonymous below.
    All communications will be recorded and we keep records for 15 years."
    Intake protection hotlines are there for anonymous callers who have a concern about child abuse.  They put the pieces together to see if its worth calling the police for further investigation.  Someone may report seeing something as bruises on a child frequently...and call the hotline available in their area.    You can remove the burden of what you have heard by placing the information in hands of those who deal with reports like this every day.  
    Since this is in text here,  it may put a heavier responsibility on you that can already be read in your words.  It is not easy to dismiss.  As a child-abuse survivor, you know these things - I also know these things.  Sometimes going with your gut feelings, while also choosing the right recourse, is the best thing to do all the way around.
     
     
     
  4. Upvote
    Witness reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Pure Worship of Jehovah​—Restored at Last!   
    @Space Merchant I think i will continue to like every comment you dislike just for the fun of it all. You seem to love linking me with others, so be it. I will join in your game and it will become fun for me. A bit of light hearted pleasure. 
    As for you implying something like 'Butler said that the GB of JW org are demonised'  Well maybe they are . 
    Jesus said as recorded at John 8 v 44 
     You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began,c and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.
    Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees but they had been God's chosen people, part of God's chosen nation. Yet he said they were from their father the Devil.  So, think on it, why cannot the GB of JW Org be from 'their father the Devil' ? And if that is correct they would be demonised, or would that be Devilised.  
    Remember that many Jews / Israelites remained in their Jewish faith, but they were wrong not to change. So just because the JW Org has 8 million followers, does not make it right.  If the amount of people in a religion made it right then the Catholic church or Islam would be more right than the JW Org  
     
     
  5. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Pure Worship of Jehovah​—Restored at Last!   
    It’s time to tell you, SM, I am not a “he”, but a “she”.  It shouldn’t matter though, since anointed are neither “male or female”; but for you, I am sure all “hell” will break lose and you will write me a book about it.  Gal 3:28
    It is amazing that two worthless anointed women from the WT, are able to discern the man of lawlessness standing in the Temple of God, isn’t it, and continually expose the Man of Lawlessness for what it has done to God’s priesthood.  Rev 11:1-3   What was God thinking anyway!  Maybe He was thinking that men in their haughtiness who rule the organization, would see just what God meant when Mary proclaimed, “He has put down the mighty from their thrones and exalted the lowly”.  Luke 1:52…..
    Or when Jesus said, “For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”….Matt 23:12…
    Ps 138:6 – “Though the Lord is on high,
    Yet He regards the lowly;
    But the proud He knows from afar.”

    “Orderly worship” concerns the anointed Body of Christ, where again, it doesn’t matter who is female or male. They are all “living stones”.  Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9  I also know many male anointed ones who seem just fine with what I do, or with what Pearl does.  They are my brothers in Christ.
    You are full of misconceptions concerning the anointed and the Watchtower.  I am very sorry about this.  Also, the two men that you mention are not JWs, nor does it seem they ever were.  They are not anointed “priests” of God.  
    The message in Revelation is to the anointed priests of God and those with them. 
     
     
     
  6. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Pure Worship of Jehovah​—Restored at Last!   
    Thanks, Jan.  Both perimeno and RK are deterrents from knowing truth for all of us who step out of the WT.  At least I believe that.  When I realized that they encourage either remaining in the organization and waiting for it to change, I couldn't stomach remaining under a false pretense called truth.   I remember RK even stating it was useless to partake.  That told me right off, he was not with Christ.
    You said it was "Sad that you did not have the courage to confess before the congregation that you had become anointed."
     I grew up extremely shy with little self-worth.  A shy person does not make waves when something unusual occurs in life. I was never one to draw attention to myself.  Even when facing child abuse by a family member, I never told my parents.    As I mentioned earlier, I was young when anointed and very new to the organization, not even understanding fully the role of anointed.   Eventually, the experience was set aside, since I told myself I was unworthy to be called by God to serve Him and Jesus in such a way. 
    Since being out of the organization, I have met with anointed to partake in an intimate setting that I would like to believe is how Jesus wanted it.  He could have invited every believer, every disciple, to his last supper on earth, but he chose a selected few to be with him who became the foundation of God’s Temple. Matt 16:18; 1 Cor 3:11 I would never partake in the Watchtower where condemnation breathes down the neck of each anointed one.  Elders scrutinize and judge who is and who isn’t, anointed.
    Anointed do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them.  1 Cor 12:25,26  WT 16/1 par 8
    That’s all I wanted to do when I left the organization – to bond with other anointed ones.  It seems to me that you also, have this desire.  It is natural, it is the attraction to life through Holy Spirit provided by Christ   Anointed are the branches of the vine who, if their heart is in the right place, desire to be unified fully as one, with the vine of Christ and with their brothers/sisters.  John 15:1-7   This is how the Temple of God is built.   Eph 2:20-22
    In WT’s use of scriptures, Paul was writing to the anointed Body.  It is their unity and love that is imperative for Holy Spirit to reach each one of them; allowing them to teach all believers. Mal 2:7  Paul speaks of the gifts mentioned in 1 Cor 12,  in Romans 12:1-8 also, stating they are “living sacrifices” under one Head, Christ.  These living sacrifices, or living stones of the temple, are the priesthood:
    As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.  1 Pet 2:4,5
    JWs cannot recognize them, or their gifts, when scriptures pertaining to the anointed are used to support the elder body. 
    If we love the elders and respect their work, we will be obedient and submissive to them.ws12 5/15 pp. 21-26
     This includes the called anointed ones of God – those who would be “kings and priests” in the Kingdom if they are faithful to one Master, bearing only one “mark” on their forehead, and not the mark of an organization with its set of ordinances and doctrine.    Matt 6:24; Rev 13:15,16; Deut 11:18,19    Does this even make sense that anointed are to obey those not anointed? Who are they to judge those under Christ?  When does the switcheroo happen?  When do those whom they are to obey now, become subservient to those GOD has already appointed?  Rev 3:9   Are God's priesthood to sit back and wait for their appointment as heavenly “kings”?  Is that what Paul taught the early anointed ones?  Would God appoint “Gentiles” to decide if they are worthy to serve God?  Yet, they do this when anointed (and ALL) choose God’s Word over the word of the GB.   The elders authority to judge before Christ will at his coming, is the trademark of the Man of Lawlessness – acting as if from God, as if Christ himself. 2 Thess 2:3,4 
    Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.  Rom 14:4
    JWs are to “seek out” the elders, but not the appointed authentic priesthood of God. This is oppression that leads to “desolating” a people. Matt 24:15; Dan 9:27; 11:31
    The “man of lawlessness” is not one man, but an army...of elders.
    Who passes the anointed ones the emblems?  The elders, those not anointed.  It wasn’t that way with at the last supper. There is no cohesiveness within the anointed Body because “Gentiles” have come between them.   Rev 11:1-3
     My point is not to convince others through partaking in front of JWs, but to serve Christ in truth and declare it as he intends God’s true “witnesses” to do so.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10  I am sure you must feel similar, how important that is. 
    When the symbolic “two witnesses”, those anointed as God’s true Witnesses of “Jacob”/”Israel” (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9), reveal Truth in Christ (Matt 18:16), and reveal this desolating event, the circumstances for this happening in Isa 43:8-10 coincides with Revelation 11:1-3, 13:10; 16:2
    They proclaim there can be “no foreign god” among them.  Isa 43:12   No organization with its rules is to come between them and Christ.  They announce this “distress” or tribulation that is “different” from any other time in the history of God’s people. 
     “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.  Dan 12:1
    We conquer this oppression by standing for Truth, even if it means being “killed” by the Beast/organization for not revering its existence.  Rev 11:7; 13:4,5,15,18;3:12; 15:2
    Sometimes, the identity of Satan’s deceptions can be right in front of us, closer than we first realized.    
     
     
     
  7. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Pure Worship of Jehovah​—Restored at Last!   
    It’s time to tell you, SM, I am not a “he”, but a “she”.  It shouldn’t matter though, since anointed are neither “male or female”; but for you, I am sure all “hell” will break lose and you will write me a book about it.  Gal 3:28
    It is amazing that two worthless anointed women from the WT, are able to discern the man of lawlessness standing in the Temple of God, isn’t it, and continually expose the Man of Lawlessness for what it has done to God’s priesthood.  Rev 11:1-3   What was God thinking anyway!  Maybe He was thinking that men in their haughtiness who rule the organization, would see just what God meant when Mary proclaimed, “He has put down the mighty from their thrones and exalted the lowly”.  Luke 1:52…..
    Or when Jesus said, “For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”….Matt 23:12…
    Ps 138:6 – “Though the Lord is on high,
    Yet He regards the lowly;
    But the proud He knows from afar.”

    “Orderly worship” concerns the anointed Body of Christ, where again, it doesn’t matter who is female or male. They are all “living stones”.  Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9  I also know many male anointed ones who seem just fine with what I do, or with what Pearl does.  They are my brothers in Christ.
    You are full of misconceptions concerning the anointed and the Watchtower.  I am very sorry about this.  Also, the two men that you mention are not JWs, nor does it seem they ever were.  They are not anointed “priests” of God.  
    The message in Revelation is to the anointed priests of God and those with them. 
     
     
     
  8. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Pure Worship of Jehovah​—Restored at Last!   
    Thanks, Jan.  Both perimeno and RK are deterrents from knowing truth for all of us who step out of the WT.  At least I believe that.  When I realized that they encourage either remaining in the organization and waiting for it to change, I couldn't stomach remaining under a false pretense called truth.   I remember RK even stating it was useless to partake.  That told me right off, he was not with Christ.
    You said it was "Sad that you did not have the courage to confess before the congregation that you had become anointed."
     I grew up extremely shy with little self-worth.  A shy person does not make waves when something unusual occurs in life. I was never one to draw attention to myself.  Even when facing child abuse by a family member, I never told my parents.    As I mentioned earlier, I was young when anointed and very new to the organization, not even understanding fully the role of anointed.   Eventually, the experience was set aside, since I told myself I was unworthy to be called by God to serve Him and Jesus in such a way. 
    Since being out of the organization, I have met with anointed to partake in an intimate setting that I would like to believe is how Jesus wanted it.  He could have invited every believer, every disciple, to his last supper on earth, but he chose a selected few to be with him who became the foundation of God’s Temple. Matt 16:18; 1 Cor 3:11 I would never partake in the Watchtower where condemnation breathes down the neck of each anointed one.  Elders scrutinize and judge who is and who isn’t, anointed.
    Anointed do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them.  1 Cor 12:25,26  WT 16/1 par 8
    That’s all I wanted to do when I left the organization – to bond with other anointed ones.  It seems to me that you also, have this desire.  It is natural, it is the attraction to life through Holy Spirit provided by Christ   Anointed are the branches of the vine who, if their heart is in the right place, desire to be unified fully as one, with the vine of Christ and with their brothers/sisters.  John 15:1-7   This is how the Temple of God is built.   Eph 2:20-22
    In WT’s use of scriptures, Paul was writing to the anointed Body.  It is their unity and love that is imperative for Holy Spirit to reach each one of them; allowing them to teach all believers. Mal 2:7  Paul speaks of the gifts mentioned in 1 Cor 12,  in Romans 12:1-8 also, stating they are “living sacrifices” under one Head, Christ.  These living sacrifices, or living stones of the temple, are the priesthood:
    As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.  1 Pet 2:4,5
    JWs cannot recognize them, or their gifts, when scriptures pertaining to the anointed are used to support the elder body. 
    If we love the elders and respect their work, we will be obedient and submissive to them.ws12 5/15 pp. 21-26
     This includes the called anointed ones of God – those who would be “kings and priests” in the Kingdom if they are faithful to one Master, bearing only one “mark” on their forehead, and not the mark of an organization with its set of ordinances and doctrine.    Matt 6:24; Rev 13:15,16; Deut 11:18,19    Does this even make sense that anointed are to obey those not anointed? Who are they to judge those under Christ?  When does the switcheroo happen?  When do those whom they are to obey now, become subservient to those GOD has already appointed?  Rev 3:9   Are God's priesthood to sit back and wait for their appointment as heavenly “kings”?  Is that what Paul taught the early anointed ones?  Would God appoint “Gentiles” to decide if they are worthy to serve God?  Yet, they do this when anointed (and ALL) choose God’s Word over the word of the GB.   The elders authority to judge before Christ will at his coming, is the trademark of the Man of Lawlessness – acting as if from God, as if Christ himself. 2 Thess 2:3,4 
    Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.  Rom 14:4
    JWs are to “seek out” the elders, but not the appointed authentic priesthood of God. This is oppression that leads to “desolating” a people. Matt 24:15; Dan 9:27; 11:31
    The “man of lawlessness” is not one man, but an army...of elders.
    Who passes the anointed ones the emblems?  The elders, those not anointed.  It wasn’t that way with at the last supper. There is no cohesiveness within the anointed Body because “Gentiles” have come between them.   Rev 11:1-3
     My point is not to convince others through partaking in front of JWs, but to serve Christ in truth and declare it as he intends God’s true “witnesses” to do so.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10  I am sure you must feel similar, how important that is. 
    When the symbolic “two witnesses”, those anointed as God’s true Witnesses of “Jacob”/”Israel” (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9), reveal Truth in Christ (Matt 18:16), and reveal this desolating event, the circumstances for this happening in Isa 43:8-10 coincides with Revelation 11:1-3, 13:10; 16:2
    They proclaim there can be “no foreign god” among them.  Isa 43:12   No organization with its rules is to come between them and Christ.  They announce this “distress” or tribulation that is “different” from any other time in the history of God’s people. 
     “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.  Dan 12:1
    We conquer this oppression by standing for Truth, even if it means being “killed” by the Beast/organization for not revering its existence.  Rev 11:7; 13:4,5,15,18;3:12; 15:2
    Sometimes, the identity of Satan’s deceptions can be right in front of us, closer than we first realized.    
     
     
     
  9. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    Multiply Kosonen’s experience hundreds of times over, and you, SM, will see why the GB’s apparent contrite, humble words that they are not inspired,and can ( I say “prone” to) err in doctrine…..IS A BIG DEAL. 
    You have spent much time covering inspired prophets vs. uninspired prophets.  As I said, among His people, God doesn’t make a distinction.  He calls His prophets, “prophets”.  If they “proclaim” a message in His name and it doesn’t come true, He refers to them as “false prophets”.   Deut 18:20-22; Matt 7:15-20
    Straight and simple. 
    Are you neglecting the weightier matters of the law of Christ: justice and mercy and faith, as the GB and elder body have?
    “These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.”
    The organization’s leadership are blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 
    Look at the broader picture, SM, and the damage done to those who follow blind, empty teachings, that leaves one in the DARK.   Matt 23:23,24; 1 John 1:5
     
     
     
     
     
     
  10. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    Multiply Kosonen’s experience hundreds of times over, and you, SM, will see why the GB’s apparent contrite, humble words that they are not inspired,and can ( I say “prone” to) err in doctrine…..IS A BIG DEAL. 
    You have spent much time covering inspired prophets vs. uninspired prophets.  As I said, among His people, God doesn’t make a distinction.  He calls His prophets, “prophets”.  If they “proclaim” a message in His name and it doesn’t come true, He refers to them as “false prophets”.   Deut 18:20-22; Matt 7:15-20
    Straight and simple. 
    Are you neglecting the weightier matters of the law of Christ: justice and mercy and faith, as the GB and elder body have?
    “These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.”
    The organization’s leadership are blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 
    Look at the broader picture, SM, and the damage done to those who follow blind, empty teachings, that leaves one in the DARK.   Matt 23:23,24; 1 John 1:5
     
     
     
     
     
     
  11. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Kosonen in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    Before I was baptized I thought that you can always question every JW doctrine and that the Watchtower will always have scripturaly based answers for their doctrines. So I felt safe to be baptized. But I did not know that after you are baptized you have no more right to question the truthfulness of any doctine. And if you don't understand their explanation you have to comply anyway. 
    If I had known that the WT-organization works like that, I doubt I had been baptized. 
    To the contrary I heard the circuit overseer explain how honest and sincere the WT organization is. He claimed in a speech that if a person finds a fault in WT doctine and can show it from the Bible, then absolutely the WT organization will change the doctrine. 
    It was with this mind I was baptized. But it became evident that that is not how the WT org works. When I had found scriptural evidence against some WT doctrines I wanted to show my elders. They came to my place, but they refused to look at my findings. They refused to look at the scriptures I wanted to show them. They were not going to examine the scriptures. I was amazed, what was going on? Now I understand that elders act according to WT procedures. They don't think about what is right or true. The only thing that matters to them is to obey the GB. The Bible and the truth comes always on the second place. 
    That is the moment when the truth has ceased to be the truth. 
    Actually the elders even openly at the meerings said that the unity is more important than the truth. They justify that with saying that Jehovah will anyway later correct everything.
    But where will the elders and GB be when Jehovah corrects what it wrong? They might as well find themselves in trouble. 
    As Bible-history shows, those who opposed truth tellers in the past got in trouble.
  12. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.
    Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.
    For you, JWs!:
    Reasoning Book:
     "False Prophets 
    Individuals and organizations (1) proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132
    Please continue:
    “At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)
    What an embarrassment for the organization. 
    “The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)”
    Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 
    JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.
    "The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31
     
     
     

  13. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Deus magnus est in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    Thank you for revealing more of Watchtower’s lies. 
    In the quote above, they are comparing the WT organization to the anointed Body of Christ in the first century, where it has been made plain through scripture that there were inspired prophets designated so, by God.  If the GB are not “inspired” by Holy Spirit they should not make the comparison.   
     
    Since they have a 100 percent fail rate, how does this show respect for prophesy?    I have yet to find a genuine heartfelt apology by the governing body or any WT leaders for misleading millions of people with their failed prophesies.   They are more inclined to pass the buck onto their hearers.  1975 is a prime example.   
    Here is another:
    "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." (Watchtower 1926 p. 232.) 
    Let’s go back to 1925 to identify the “some”:   
    "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." (Watchtower, p. 150, May 15, 1922)
     Check the 1914 chronology to see its changes.  Check all of the dates for changes.  “Any possibility of erasure”???  They are such liars.  
    "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968) 
     "God's faithful people on earth emphasized the importance of the dates 1914 and 1918 and 1925. They had much to say about these dates and what would come to pass, but all they predicted did not come to pass." (Vindication, vol. 1, 1931, p. 146) 
    By their own definition, they are false prophets.   
    Prophecy can not be understood until it has been fulfilled or is in the course of fulfillment. From 1874 to 1914 the prophecy concerning the Lord's coming was being fulfilled and could be understood, and was understood, by those who were faithful to the Lord and who were watching the development of events, but not by others. (Creation; 1927; p. 290) 
    'If these prophesies have not been fulfilled, and if all possibility of fulfillment is past, then these prophets are proven false.' (Prophecy, 1929, p 22) 
    As I said, they are “inspired” through demonic inspiration.  If they were still part of the vine of Christ, they would naturally be "inspired" with Holy Spirit.  John 15:5; 1 John 2:27 
    THE ARE FALSE “INSPIRED” PROPHETS.   Matt 12:34  
    They may not join the word “inspired” to prophet, but God does not need to.  The dictionary makes it clear that prophets are inspired, as does the Watchtower itself.   
    God – But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. 
    This organization is supposedly GOD'S organization.  When every doctrine fails, then who is to blame?  The GB do not take the blame.  Is God to blame since His spirit supposedly guides it? 
    Dictionary –  Prophesy - to utter by or as if by divine inspiration, to predict with assurance or on the basis of mystic knowledge 
    Watchtower’s Reasoning Book –
    Prophesy - An inspired message; a revelation of the divine will and purpose. Prophecy may be a prediction of something to come, inspired moral teaching, or an expression of a divine command or judgment. 
    This definition just about covers all aspects of the Watchtower’s teachings within the "theocratic organization".   If the GB claim they are not inspired, then they should put down their pen, stop the printing presses and leave millions alone to find truth by turning fully to Christ and the Father.   
    When a GB members says, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man-made decisions.  This is governed from heaven.”, how do you believe this is possible if not through an “inspired” anointed one?  If God “pours out his Spirit on His organization”, where does all that spirit go?  Does it magically appear in word form in a magazine?  
    The nation of Israel was governed from heaven through an authentic prophet – Moses.  Did you know the GB at times compare themselves to Moses?  They expect JWs to swallow this lie and also to accept they are not inspired.   On top of this, they must obey without question any doctrine doomed to fail.    
    Where is the truth in any of this?  The truth is that the GB is guilty of false prophesy. Since they are unable to receive “inspired messages” from God, even though they claim they are anointed; not only because they say they are not inspired, but because they are led by another spirit, 
    THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS TELLING LIES.  ACTUALLY, THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS CLAIMING AN IDOL – THE ORGANIZATION – IS THE ONE INSPIRED (since they say they are not)  as  GOD’S “SPIRIT-DIRECTED ORGANIZATION”.  
    The Reasoning Book continues:
    False prophets - Individuals and organizations proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that do not originate with the true God and are not in harmony with his revealed will. 
    Is the claim made on the front of the Wt. magazine below in harmony with the will of God?  Is it that hard to recognize a lie when you see it? Can you see how firm the statement is made on the cover that was circulated to thousands - millions of people in the world?  It is purely, false prophesy. 
    Without a doubt, the Watchtower is guided by false “inspired” prophets, who have “breathed spirit” into the organization.  It is a spirit that has caused great harm, oppression, confusion, depression, division of families and loss of lives; pure darkness.   It is the farthest thing from a spiritual paradise that has ever existed.    Rev 13:1,11,15 
    It is fruitless to further communicate with you on this, SM.    My hope is that JWs see through the organization’s lies and turn aside to Christ.
     
     
     
     

  14. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Deus magnus est in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    I believe you should read further in Matt 24...to Matt 24:48-51
    He said, “Listen to my words: When there are prophets of the Lord among you, I make myself known to them in visions or speak to them in dreams.”  Num 12:6
    “‘In the last days, God says,
        I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
    Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
        your young men will see visions,
        your old men will dream dreams.
    18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
        I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
        and they will prophesy.”  Acts 2:17,18 
    He said to me, “Son of man, stand up on your feet and I will speak with you.” 2 As he spoke to me, the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet, and I listened to the one who was speaking to me. 3 He said to me, “Son of man, I am sending you to the Israelites, to the rebellious pagans who have rebelled against me. The Israelites and their ancestors have transgressed against me to this day.  Ezek 2:1-3 
    Instead, go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’  Matt 10:6,7 
    “Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”  Rev 11:1-3
    “The blessings of Jehovah God are upon you because of his loving-kindness to his beloved anointed remnant. Jehovah God dwells with you because his anointed are his visible temple. w56 11/15 pp. 696-702     
    John 2:18-21;  1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Pet 2:4-10; Eph 2:20-22  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+2%3A18-21%3B +1+Cor+3%3A16%2C17%3B+1+Pet+2%3A4-10%3B+Eph+2%3A20-22&version=CSB
    Spiritual Israel are the anointed, the Temple.   Who are the spiritual “Gentiles” “treading” the temple? 
    “Representing the royal priesthood (anointed)  are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.  
    Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust. 
    “Loyally Submit to Godly Authority” wt 02/8/1 pp. 9-14
     “My hand will oppose the prophets who see false visions and speak deceptive divinations. They won’t be included with the council of my people, nor will they be entered into the registry of Israel’s house or enter Israel’s land. Then you’ll know that I am the Lord God”  Eze 13:9
    (Rev 7:4)
    … And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”  Rev 11:3 
    “The descendants are obstinate and hardhearted. I am sending you to them, and you must say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says.’ 5 Whether they listen or refuse to listen—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them. Eze 2:1-5 
    So when they persecute you in one city, flee to another. I can guarantee this truth: Before you have gone through every city in Israel, the Son of Man will come.   Matt 10:23 
    Rev 21:8 - But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
     Big letters for emphasis.  
  15. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    I must add, being "spirit-inspired" is the result of an anointing.  Holy Spirit is poured into one's heart.  Rom 5:5  It is alive and active and "inspires" one to understand Christ's truths. 2 John 2:2; 1 John 2:20,27  Holy Spirit "inspires" others to recognize truth when they hear it from one Jesus' sends. John 13:20   For the GB to claim they are not inspired also shows they no longer have Holy Spirit within them, if anointed. 2 Tim 3:5  They are ignorant of its power, but are well versed in "inspiration" coming from a demonic spirit.  This is how lies are generated and lies are laced through the teachings of the organization.   Their is no other word for false/failed doctrine, but "lies".   And lies have no origin in Christ, who is only light.  1 John 1:6;
    Woe to those who call evil good
        and good evil,
    who put darkness for light
        and light for darkness,
    who put bitter for sweet
        and sweet for bitter.
    21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
        and clever in their own sight.  Isa 5:20-21
    "Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."  John 15:4
     
  16. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.
    Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.
    For you, JWs!:
    Reasoning Book:
     "False Prophets 
    Individuals and organizations (1) proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132
    Please continue:
    “At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)
    What an embarrassment for the organization. 
    “The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)”
    Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 
    JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.
    "The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31
     
     
     

  17. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Pure Worship of Jehovah​—Restored at Last!   
    Dear Kosonen, 
    Dan 11:31 -  “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.
    You believe that JW Broadcasting and Warwick are the identities behind those whose “daily sacrifices” will be abolished?  Only one identity in scripture offers “daily sacrifices” – God’s priesthood.  Why are you deviating from scripture?    Lev 6:8-13; Heb 8:1-6; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10
    "In the first century the temple was a physical place and at the same time there was the spiritual temple, according to the apostles words."
    You are saying there is a dual fulfillment of two apparent sanctuaries being trampled? 
     Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
    20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.  John 2:19-21
    “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
    No longer are we to recognize a building of any sort as a temple sanctuary; but,  this is what you are saying, by calling Warwick a “temple” whose “sacrifices” will be abolished.  Also, somehow you are working in the “trampling” of God’s true sanctuary, “living stones” built on the Body of Christ? 1f Pet 2:5,9  Or, perhaps you don’t see this at all. 
    Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.  Eph 2:19-22 (1 Cor 3:16,17)
    The apostles moved away from the existing temple worship – a “physical place”.  It is what the establishment of the New Covenant entailed; yet, you are comparing a system, a covenant, that lasted hundreds of years which Jesus fulfilled at his coming, to the appearance of the Watchtower making its deceptive call just a hundred years ago.  He abandoned the “house” because of its sins, and replaced the physical temple with his Body.  Matt 26:26-29  Do you believe the WT is under its own covenant with God, just as the nation of Israel was under the law covenant until Jesus arrived?  It certainly can’t be the “New Covenant” that Jesus established in the first century, since that promise has been in existence since his last supper with his disciples. Heb 8:13
    Any contracted covenant that the WT is under, has a demonic source. Luke 4:5-7; Rev 13:2; 2 Thess 2:9-12; 2 Pet 2:1-3
    Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as He appointed, instructing Moses to make it according to the pattern that he had seen, 45 which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Joshua into the land possessed by the Gentiles, whom God drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David, 46 who found favor before God and asked to find a dwelling for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built Him a house.
    48 “However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
    49 ‘Heaven is My throne,
    And earth is My footstool.
    What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
    Or what is the place of My rest?
    50 Has My hand not made all these things?’
    “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you”  Act 7:44-51
    Any literal building owned by the WT is not the “temple fortress” that loses its “daily sacrifice” by an “abomination” that is set up in it. Dan 11:31.  It has never been approved by God as His “House”.  He has only one house, one dwelling, in the anointed hearts. 1 Cor 3:16,17 But, by your saying so, are you rejecting Christ as the chief cornerstone of the true House of God?   1 Pet 2:6-8  I do hope this isn’t true.  In Dan 11:38,39, the “king” (Rev 13:11) honors a “god of fortresses” (Rev 13:1,4,8) while attacking the “mightiest fortress”, which is the same “temple fortress” in Dan 11:31, and God’s anointed Temple. 
    The “god of fortresses”, then, is the “spirit-directed organization” and an idol.  Rev 13:1,15,4
    The fourth Beast of Daniel is “different”, unlike the other Beasts of worldly power.  And, Daniel’s description does fit the Beast of Revelation 13:1.  But, only one of those “Beasts” in Rev 13, represent the GB – the false prophet with “two horns that speaks like a dragon.”  The other is the organization, where the “image” as “spirit-directed” is kept alive by the “breath” the false prophet imparts to the Wild Beast.  Rev 13:15
    Tell me, how will Donald Trump find out who the anointed ones are, in order to persecute them and remove their “daily sacrifice”, when it is apparent that God’s priesthood cannot not offer “daily sacrifices” as priests now? (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9;  Heb 13:15)  He has little time left to do this, doesn’t he.  You’d think he’d be doing some sort of investigation at this moment, but I’m sure he’s looking for bigger fish to fry.   The GB/wicked slave and their henchmen, already keep them well “trampled”; totally obscured from the rest of JWs.   Matt 24:48-51  I am anointed, but in the Watchtower I never partook for the years I was in. No one knew that I was anointed. How many more are like me, too afraid to speak up as one of God’s anointed ones, or who give up partaking in a setting that requires no interaction with other members of the anointed Body?  Or, having the fear of being pinned down as possibly “mentally diseased”?  Has Trump been given such spiritual insight to “know” who is anointed and who isn’t?   He’s not even a JW.  
    And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.  Dan 8:9,10
    I know you are aware of the power the elders have over the anointed is incredible.  They easily “kill” them (disfellowship) for rejecting Watchtower’s lies and proclaiming Christ as their one true Head.  Rev 13:7,15; 11:7; Dan 8:25   They have received this authority to do so from the GB; yet ultimately the Beast receives it from the dragon!  Rev 13:2; 16:13,14  Thus, they have exalted themselves as high as Christ – as has the GB also (Mark 13:22). Again, the elders are the man of lawlessness of 2 Thess 2:3,4 and Rev 11:1,2;  and the “image” of the Beast.  Rev 13:15
    As a dual power comprised of “iron”/Gentile, and “clay”/”Israel” in covenant with God, Daniel’s fourth Beast has cast truth down to the ground.
     Dan 2:40-43; Isa 64:8; 1 Cor 3:9 – “clay”
    Ezek 11:12; Luke 22:25,26 – “iron”
     Anointed who remain “in Christ”, would speak truth; but as we see, no truth can be spoken by those who are “trampled” and tread upon. John 15:4; Dan 8:13; Isa 3:4,5;5:5-7; Matt 7:6; Isa 63:18; Jer 12:10; Rev 11:2 ; Matt 24:15; Rev 13:7
     This is a spiritual captivity that God has allowed to come upon His people for choosing the idealistic expectations of men, to promote their idol.  Isa 5:5-7,11-13; Rev 13:9,10; Luke 21:24; Col 2:8; 2 Thess 2:9-12
    It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord; it took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down.12 Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
    13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”  Dan 8:11-13
    This is so evident by the upbuilding of the elder body above and beyond any acknowledgement of who the anointed ones are.
    “Now in those times many shall rise up against the king of the South. Also violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.”  Dan 11:14
    Of “Israel”.  The anointed are “Israel”.  Rev 21:12
    Both these kings’ hearts shall be bent on evil, and they shall speak lies at the same table; but it shall not prosper, for the end will still be at the appointed time.   Dan 11:27
    The Beast from the Earth is a composite false prophet /Harlot who has exalted itself as superior to its “fellow servants”.  As Daniel says, these kings will not prosper, but will be exposed for the iniquities they have committed.  Rev 13:11; 17:16,17
    It is the wicked slave of Matt 24:48-51.  The simple fact the GB proclaims only themselves as “faithful and discreet” before the coming of Christ, shows their deception; their speaking lies at the same table which expresses their desire for superiority over all “kings of the earth”- Christ’s “kings”. Luke 19:17; Rev 1:5
    Gerrit Loesch - “To appreciate the extent of Jehovah’s and Jesus’ trust in the faithful slave reflect on what he has promised its members. He has promised the immortality and incorruption. Soon, JUST BEFORE ARMAGEDDON the remaining members of the slave will be taken to heaven.” 
    This only includes the GB.  They have no interest in their fellow servants in Christ, but to silence them.  Matt 24:48-51; 1 John 3:11,12; 1 Cor 12:14-26
    The depictions of people and nations in the Hebrew scriptures provide symbolic characteristics of the Beasts that come against the anointed during Armageddon.  We see this when reading about the “two witnesses” who are “killed” by the Beast.
    “When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”  Rev 11:7,8
    See all of Isaiah Chapter 1.  God actually compares “Israel” to Sodom and Gomorrah.  The “two witnesses” lie in the street of “apostate” Jerusalem, equivalent to “Sodom”.  This indicates the Wild Beast/organization’s vast sins.   What are the two witnesses proclaiming when “killed”/disfellowshipped?  (Rev 11:1-3) The sins of “Israel”, their fall into idolatry/servitude to the organization and its leaders.  Also, their failure at remembering who they should be serving instead of an organization, and their blatant disregard for Christ, who bought them with a price; (1 Cor 6:20; 2 Pet 2:1; Heb 6:4-6) The “two witnesses” are also trumpeting the identity of the Man of Lawlessness standing in /treading upon the Temple of God.  Rev 11:1-3; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12; Dan 9:16
    I really hope you reconsider your perception as needing to be spiritual, and not visual.  It is not often that anointed are able to find and converse with one another. 
     Pearl Doxsey - 4womaninthewilderness - ""Gentile Times"/ "Great Tribulation" / Cleansed Priesthood"
     
  18. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    I must add, being "spirit-inspired" is the result of an anointing.  Holy Spirit is poured into one's heart.  Rom 5:5  It is alive and active and "inspires" one to understand Christ's truths. 2 John 2:2; 1 John 2:20,27  Holy Spirit "inspires" others to recognize truth when they hear it from one Jesus' sends. John 13:20   For the GB to claim they are not inspired also shows they no longer have Holy Spirit within them, if anointed. 2 Tim 3:5  They are ignorant of its power, but are well versed in "inspiration" coming from a demonic spirit.  This is how lies are generated and lies are laced through the teachings of the organization.   Their is no other word for false/failed doctrine, but "lies".   And lies have no origin in Christ, who is only light.  1 John 1:6;
    Woe to those who call evil good
        and good evil,
    who put darkness for light
        and light for darkness,
    who put bitter for sweet
        and sweet for bitter.
    21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
        and clever in their own sight.  Isa 5:20-21
    "Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."  John 15:4
     
  19. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.
    Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.
    For you, JWs!:
    Reasoning Book:
     "False Prophets 
    Individuals and organizations (1) proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132
    Please continue:
    “At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)
    What an embarrassment for the organization. 
    “The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)”
    Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 
    JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.
    "The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31
     
     
     

  20. Like
    Witness reacted to JOHN BUTLER in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    Really ? They thought 1914, and 1975, so surely they think he is late now  
     
  21. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    example 1) "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a prophetlike organization, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation."Watchtower 1964 Oct 1 p.601
    example 2) "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? 
    IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" 
    These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? 
    ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. 
    ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the "prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom."Watchtower 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'
    example 3) "commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62
     
    Prophecy
    Definition: An inspired message; a revelation of the divine will and purpose. Prophecy may be a prediction of something to come, inspired moral teaching, or an expression of a divine command or judgment. -Reasoning book
     
    False Prophets
    Definition: Individuals and organizations proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that do not originate with the true God and are not in harmony with his revealed will. - Reasoning book
     
    If Someone Says—
    ‘My minister said that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the false prophets’
    You might reply: ‘May I ask, Did he show you anything in the Bible that describes what we believe or do and that says people of that sort would be false prophets? . . . May I show you how the Bible describes false prophets? (Then use one or more of the points outlined on pages 132-136.)’
    Or you could say: ‘I’m sure you’ll agree that specific evidence should back up such a serious charge. Did your minister mention any specific examples? (If householder refers to some claimed “predictions” that did not come to pass, use material on page 134, and from the bottom of page 135 to the top of 137.)’
    Another possibility: ‘I’m sure that if someone accused you of something similar, you would welcome the opportunity at least to explain your position or point of view, wouldn’t you? . . . So may I show you from the Bible . . . ?’
    True prophets and the false can be recognized by the fruitage manifest in their lives and the lives of those who follow them - Reasoning book
    Here we can see how WT never clearly making statement how JW organization is not prophet-like organization or God's mouthpiece organization. GB are not rejecting existence of true prophets in this modern times.  They only rejecting accusations about claims how they, GB and JW members are viewed as FALSE prophets. WT reject only word FALSE in connection to prophets. 
    By quoted WT articles JW organization stand on quiet and shy claim that JW are "prophets" (of some sort), because they manifest fruitage in their lives, because JW revealing divine will and purpose, because JW spreading inspired moral teaching, because JW announcing divine command or judgment. This specific Organized worldwide activity support self vision on own importance in this role as "prophet-like" agents.
  22. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in SIX SCREENS OF THE WATCHTOWER   
    It is true, that the majority in the organization are very fine with their “life” that the they have signed up for when joining the organization. They are use to sitting through "boring" convention talks and wouldn't have it any other way.  They are not those who sighing and crying over the detestable things committed in “New Jerusalem” – the “city” of God’s people.  Ezek 9:4; Gal 4:26
    Or, they tolerate the GB’s inconsistencies in agonizing silence, and out of fear of losing what life and friendships they have built inside.  Matt 16:25; John 12:25
    It is also a fact that JWs have been manipulated into believing that any other anointed one just doesn’t have the ability to speak truth.  So, they willingly swallow the lies offered by the uninspired GB, as the only source of spiritual food Christ has provided.    What a psychological paradox. 
    Well, you know where to find the sound cloud when it is produced, if ever you confront an abomination committed by the Watchtower that you find you just cannot tolerate.  Yet time is slipping by.  Rev 17 speaks of the false prophet being exposed for “her”/Harlot’s sins by the “Beast” “spirit-directed organization”. Rev 13:1,11,15,16; 17:12-18  Only for one symbolic “hour” will the Beast/organization remain before both the Harlot and the organization are thrown into the Lake of “burning sulphur”.  Rev 20:9,20   The GB will be disfellowshipped; yes, by a coalition of both elders and anointed ones – “ten kings”.   Some may even perceive this happening on the horizon; especially considering the child abuse issues and the two-witness rule.   Perhaps then you will have an understand of at least some of the abominations committed by God’s people.  But, we are told to act on the words spoken in Rev 18:4-8.   “My people” are the anointed ones; they and their companions are where you are, in the Watchtower. 
     
  23. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    As I see from quotations from WT publications that was brought on day light in Witness posts, it is understandable how GB class view themselves and their Organization. They see themselves as God's Spoke Persons, as Representatives, as Ambassadors, as Substitution instead Christ, as Prophetlike Organization, and logically if Organization is Prophetlike, than must exists people in such Organization who are Prophets in some or any sense of the meaning of this word Prophet. (for example if JW leaders and members as whole group talking and teaching  people, how future brings this and that, all who "preaching" such things are not only people who speaking about what they personally believe, they are not only messenger, agents, but sort of "prophets" too. No matter did they or did they not, personally or as group, source alone of some claim about future or just making repetition from Bible "prophesies".
    Next thing. Bible said how we have two sort of "Prophets" and two sort of "Prophecies". True and False. Well, in  fact, no matter in what class some "Prophet" and "Prophecy" belong, he or she is "Inspired" by default. Because "Prophecy" as such must be "Inspired", otherwise it is not "Prophecy".
    Logically follows the conclusion: Any person or group (as single or if belong to some organization) who talking about what will be, what the future brings , are some sort of "Inspired Prophets". Because person is and must be "Inspired" or "Motivated" to bring such stuff to other people.
    Is some "Prophecy" false or true ?? This is another story. :))))))
          "Political leaders often end up being “false prophets” unable to fulfill their promises. Of course, not every ruler turns out to be a “Hitler,” whose promised “thousand-year reich” proved to be a disastrous 12 years of misrule. ... A very prominent political “prophet” of our present century was the League of Nations, formed in 1919. It foretold a world of lasting peace. But World War II unceremoniously dumped it into a pit of inactivity." Awake! 1981 Dec 8 p.14
    In this Awake article we can see how far WT Company extends,  stretching the meaning of the word "prophets" and "prophecy". If you give promises to someone you are Prophets. Interesting! :)))))))))))))))))
  24. Like
    Witness reacted to JOHN BUTLER in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    No, rather the GB have the high opinion of themselves. And more so since they have become 'screen stars'. 
    We get back to the point that according to scripture all of the Anointed should be the Spiritual Jew, but the majority of the Anointed are pushed to the sidelines and the GB also stated in writing that some may even be mentally ill. And the GB make themselves, only those 8 men, the 'faithful and discreet slave'. But they are not able to prove that and they say that they are not inspired.  So, who gave them permission to call themselves the FDS ? Who gave them permission to say some may be mentally ill ? Who gave them permission to judge who should be the important ones and who should not ?  Unfortunately you are worshipping you GB by not even questioning them.
  25. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Pure Worship of Jehovah​—Restored at Last!   
    The organization has the eyes of JWs focused on Russia and the governments for the end time fulfillment.
    Where did Jesus focus his disciple’s attention for the signs of the last days?
     “Teacher,” they asked him, “so when will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?” 
    Then he said, “Watch out that you are not deceived.  Luke 21:7,8
    We know Russia has not deceived JWs; nor any other government has deceived JWs, a people who stay out of politics.  Russia’s agenda has been made clear to the world for a long time.  Watchtower is fighting a literal battle with that country because they dissolved their material holdings.  The governing body covet their “riches”, while God and Christ’s only “earthly belongings” are His children who strive to follow His Son and obey His decrees, instead of men and their material riches.  Matt 6:19-21; Act 7:48-50; 17:24  His “special possession” is not made with wood and stone, but with “living stones” of His Temple.  Yet, those anointed stones are asleep to this fact.  1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22
    JWs have been deceived by lies.    
    “For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Don’t follow them.”
    Or, “I am the Christ”.  “Christ” means “anointed”.  WT’s string of leaders are anointed ones, who claim to represent Christ; and who many times over the years have pointed to literal dates of the return of Christ.  
    “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Matt 24:24
    Although JWs have been soothed into accepting the follow-up of WT’s failed  prophesy as the necessary introduction of “new light”, God refers to it as falsehood, that is not left unpunished.
    “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 I will hold accountable whoever does not listen to My words that he speaks in My name.”  Deut 18:18,19
    Jesus’ words were, “watch out that you are not DECEIVED” by false christs, false prophets.” 
    “But the prophet who presumes to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods—that prophet must die.’ 21 You may say to yourself, ‘How can we recognize a message the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the Lord’s name, and the message does not come true or is not fulfilled, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.”  Deut 18:20-22
    Are JWs like the Pharisees who seek a literal sign?
    “He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.”  Matt 16:2-4
    “Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
    The organization is doing exactly the opposite by pointing to a literal observation in Satan's world as a sign of the coming of the kingdom of God.  Observed: seen with the naked eye. The Watchtower organization calls itself Zion, a tangible entity full of not only people but buildings, produced with money and investments. These buildings are revered as a temple would be revered.  Upon entering every aspect of this organization, one is believed to have entered a “spiritual paradise”.  It is maintained, cherished and touted as the only way to worship God.  It is “observed” by all JWs as an irreplaceable aspect of the coming  Kingdom of God.  
    If we look at Russia as the King of the North simply because there is blatant animosity against it by the organization, then most assuredly you have been deceived. Revelation concerns Jesus’ “kings of the earth”, not the political powers of the world.  This battle is spiritual and the focus of Revelation.  John 10:10; Eph 6:11-17; 1 Tim 6:12; Rev 1:5; 12:11
    The kingdom of God is in your midst:  Who comprise the Temple of God/Zion, Body of Christ, whose hearts are the dwelling of God?  The anointed ones.  1 Cor 3:16,17 They are the potential members of the Bride of Christ, to be one with him as part of the vine.  John 15:1-4  As living stones, they are tried and tested by Satan, who “sifts” them as wheat.   Luke 22:31  If deceit doesn’t take them down, they are victorious, and are sealed in permanently, through their faith and obedience, while one the earth.  They are, “in your midst”and are the true Zion.  1 Cor 15:54-57; 2 Cor 7:10; Rev 13:7;15:2  
    Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.23 People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. 24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other”.  Luke 17:22-24
    Jesus indicated the essence of the battle that his people would come against after he left.   Truth against lies.  “Lightening” is the knowledge of truth that becomes apparent when God’s anointed have “run after” false prophets and their oppressive false priesthood, the elder body.  Lightening is the message about the Christ spoken through those whom he sends to “Israel”. They are the “carcass”, “killed”/disfellowshipped for their “testimony to Christ”. Matt 24:27,28; Rev 11:1-3,7; Rev 13:15; 12:17  
    The Pharisees came as “Moses”, mixing truth with lies.  Jesus exposed them for who they were using his light to uncover their darkness. The GB come as “Christ”.  He gave us fair warning by saying test the teachings, which would help discern those whom HE would send, and those who cast their lot in with Satan. Matt 7:15-20  They are those who would throw truth “down to the ground”. Dan 8:12  He was speaking of individuals among his own people, “Israel”; then, and now. 
    “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.”  2 Pet 2:1-3
    This is the battle at hand and is being fought between the “kings” of “Israel”.  Please open your eyes and if nothing else, “see” just this one scripture: 
    “When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”
    Can you see that the end time preaching is to “Israel”, the anointed who are held captive under a “wicked slave”?  Matt 24:48-51
    Do not go running after false “christs” who have repeatedly told you Armageddon was to arrive at a certain date.
    This is one of the signs of the last days for us to perceive:
    Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come.3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.  2 Thess 2:1-4
    Can you see that the trumpeting of dates and the trampling of the Temple/anointed priesthood doesn’t originate with political or religious leaders outside of the anointed group, but it is spearheaded by those anointed who have fallen from the grace of God?  Rev 8:11; 2 Pet 3;17; 1 John 2:19
    The Watchtower has sent message after message of the prophetic “day of the Lord”.  1914 has stuck, since it is the foundation of the “generation” doctrine.  They will revise it and twist it if needed, until Armageddon is finished.  Matt 7:26,27
    If the anointed are Abraham’s seed and the dwelling of God, they are God’s sons, His firstborn of ALL sons of God. They are also the habitation of God’s Spirit.  The Man of Lawlessness that “sits” in God’s Temple is not found in the governments or the religions of the world, nor is it a literal “holy place” deemed so by false prophets.   Matt 24:15  There is only one Temple of God that He recognizes, which is built with “living stones”.   John 2:19,21; Matt 16:18; 1 Pet 2:4-10; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 21:14; 14:1
    This Temple is under attack with weapons of DECEIT.
    2 Thess 2:9-12 – “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends (or allows Satan to send his “works”) them a powerful delusion (watch out that you are not deceived) so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”
    All JWs believe the lie that the end time fulfillments and coming Kingdom of God will take place through the physical developments in Satan’s world.  This is enforced by a wicked slave and the “lawless one”, who rules over God’s anointed priesthood, the elder body; the dual power of the Beasts of Revelation 13, who are Gog and Magog “surrounding the saints” with deceit.  Rev 16:13-16
    Why would God’s Kingdom be born from Satan’s realm?  Can pure light be born from darkness?
    “Who can bring what is pure from the impure?
        No one!”  Job 14:4
    The great northern army that comes against God’s priesthood is described in Joel 1 and 2 and Rev 9:1-12  God “sends” or allows Satan to enact against the remaining “seed” of the woman covenant.
    Why does he allow God’s people to fall under such an oppressive army?  Because “they refuse to love the truth”.  Whenever Israel sinned, God removed his protection and they suffered under the enemy.  This is why the anointed are allowed to be “trampled”. Dan 8:13   They serve the GB and not Christ.  They idolize an “organization” forgetting to give God “exclusive devotion”.   Deut 5:7,8; Rev 13:4   Spiritual “Israel” has allowed themselves to fall under the authority of the spiritual “Gentiles”.  Rev 11:1,2
    Watchtower will tell you this army of locusts are the anointed ones, which is another lie, and outlined here:
    w79 7/15 pp. 13-19 – “Preaching in a Lawless World”
    Are they supposing that JWs will not see the outcome of the locust army described in Joel 2:20  How do they hide this from JWs?  You must ask yourself, Bible readers, why you missed the scriptures in Joel that show how the devastating northern locust army “tortures” GOD’S ANOINTED ONES.  2 Cor 11:13-15  For those who leave, losing the life they had known, (Mark 8:35)  but gain life through Christ,  God promises:
    “But I will remove far from you the northern army,
    And will drive him away into a barren and desolate land,
    With his face toward the eastern sea
    And his back toward the western sea;
    His stench will come up,
    And his foul odor will rise,
    Because he has done monstrous things.”
    “So I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten,
    The crawling locust,
    The consuming locust,
    And the chewing locust,
    My great army which I sent among you.
    26 You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied,
    And praise the name of the Lord your God,” 
    Who has dealt wondrously with you;
    And My people shall never be put to shame.
    27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel:
    I am the Lord your God
    And there is no other.
    My people shall never be put to shame.  Joel 2:20,25-27
    Those anointed that escape the “lawless one’s” grip are the restored “Jacob”/”Israel”, the true Mountain of God. 
    “And it shall come to pass afterward
    That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
    Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
    Your old men shall dream dreams,
    Your young men shall see visions.
    29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
    I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
    30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
    Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
    31 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
    And the moon into blood,
    Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
    32 And it shall come to pass
    That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
    Shall be [l]saved.
    For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
    As the Lord has said,
    Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.
    Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:26-31; Rev 12:1-5
     
    Pearl Doxsey – 4womaninthewilderness  Look for, “Christ’s Return, When?”
     
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