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Witness

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  1. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Malum Intellectus in Coincidence or Correlation?   
    Do you remember the day when I did continually link to a particular blog; so much so that admin gave me a warning not to; which I have tried to respect since then?    During that time, I sent you a pm with a link to the blog when you asked a similar question as you have now.
    But, I am willing to sacrifice my “life” here and will give you several links. 
    Firstly, a bit more rambling (or skip to the links…) The Wt. teaches that the discreet virgins are found within the organization.  However, the parable shows that the foolish ones buy symbolic “oil” from another source than Christ.  Their “light”, or what they teach comes from those who “sell” it – the GB.  Matt 25:8-10; Rev 13:17  The Wt. practices a spiritual commerce, where each one is given regulated “food” to in turn “sell” to others. It is taught that this unfit food is blessed by God’s guidance, by Holy Spirit.   Can an anointed “virgin” be wise when the majority of the teachings they “buy” from the GB/Harlot are in error? Luke 6:45
      The wise, alert virgins bring their “receptacle”, symbolized by the heart, with them to the Marriage Feast.  Luke 12:37; Rev 3:20  The “oil” that initially fills their receptacle, is the Holy Spirit that was already deposited in their heart at the anointing.  They are wise enough not to let any other “virgin” take it from them.  Luke 8:18; Matt 25:9,10  For doing so, they are blessed with more Holy Spirit to fill their heart. 
    This symbolic parable takes on an earthly element when Wt. interprets it:
    “They realize that their service to God will require giving up material comforts found in Satan’s world, but they are willing to do so. They are determined to serve Jehovah loyally, not because the end is near, but because they love him and his Son. They keep their integrity and do not allow the world’s materialistic, immoral, and selfish attitudes to affect them. “  Wt 15/3/15
    Foolish harlots, comfortable and surrounded by riches obtained through materialistic means and selfish attitudes, are feeding foolish virgins with lies. Rev 18:4-8 The wise virgins open the door to Christ and enter the Marriage Feast of spiritual provisions, outside of a corrupt form of spiritual commerce.  Matt 13:12; 2 Cor 4:6  They begin to “know” Christ.  Phil 3:7-11; John 14:21
    I had to get this said since it isn’t widely known among JWs that many members are disfellowshipped for rejection of lies, not for sinning, and also many anointed ones are disfellowshipped by their “fellow servants”/GB because they too cannot swallow the lies. Matt 24:48-51  There are anointed ones who can still be found teaching their own brand of lies, outside the Wt. walls.  Yet, “Elijah” has come to restore all things and can be found if one chooses to seek. Matt 17:10,11; Rev 11:1-10; Matt 16:24-27
    If you no longer see me here, you will know I was busted by admin.
    Pearl Doxsey - http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/
    This first group below on facebook has many members, incredibly a large majority are JWs. The second is a sister group.  You don’t seem to be the type that would have a facebook account, but I do encourage you to start one up.  After all, M. Stephen Lett still has his, up and running. 
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/restorationofjacob/?ref=bookmarks
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1702628413352282/?ref=bookmarks
    http://osfilhosdaultimageracao.blogspot.com/
    http://obadiah-blogs.blogspot.com/
    http://putinthesickle.blogspot.com/
    http://exatoverdade.blogspot.com/
     
    “When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of (spiritual) Israel before the Son of Man comes.”  Matt 10:23
    “But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”  Matt 10:6
     
  2. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Malum Intellectus in Coincidence or Correlation?   
    My ramblings were to explain Watchtower’s 85% drivel.  
    Your first step to find truth is by asking God and Christ for it.  Jesus did say, “come to me”.  Through prayer, you ask for direction to recognize truth without the 85% drivel.  You ask for Holy Spirit to guide you in serving God in spirit and truth, and what that means. 
    There are good “trees” out there, to be found on the internet. (Matt 17:11)  I can send you to a “congregation”, but you won’t enter a building, or pay a tithe, or be captive to men telling you how to wash your laundry.  Instead, you build your relationship with the Father and Christ, because through God’s Word, and the blessings you receive from relying solely on them; you recognize right from wrong, good fruit from bad fruit, because this discernment, this ability, reaches your heart. You recognize that serving God through or with an organization, is idolatry, even if 15% of its teachings are truth.
    You will read good “fruit” from anointed who’s words are in harmony with Christ.  Luke 17:31-37
    Is that what you want?  I can send links in a pm.   
  3. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Malum Intellectus in Coincidence or Correlation?   
    A very apropos quote, just in:
      “Surround yourself with good people. ("good trees") People who are going to be honest with you and look out for your best interests.”
    Anyone or organization who/that is a consistent liar, is only interested in themselves.  False prophesy, false teachings are what they are - lies.
  4. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Coincidence or Correlation?   
    What do you mean by fruits?  Jesus tells us it is teachings.  It has nothing to do with visible growth of any kind.  What type of fruit is hanging on the Watchtower’s trees (anointed are compared to trees in scriptures, Ps 1:3; 92:12; Jer 17:8; 61:3;Rev 22:2; Zech 4:3,14) in comparison to the Catholics or other religions?  Are the Watchtower’s fruits truly any better, and is this how we choose who is the ‘better game in town’ by weighing both the good and bad fruits then choosing who has the least ‘bad’ fruit?
    “ A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.”  Matt 7:18-20
    We recognize all “trees” by the quality and consistency of their fruits.  There is not one Watchtower leader who is a good tree since they either profess false doctrine or support false doctrine.  Their words weigh in heavier than Christ’s words, because they expect every JW to obey their words, whether good or bad. Prov 20:10  They expect every JW to obey them.  Matt 24:48-51
    Amid the signs of the end times, Jesus said,  “He answered, “Watch out! Don’t be fooled! For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time has come!’ Don’t go after them.” (CJB)  Luke 21:8
    These are “christs”, anointed ones deceiving with simply, dates which are false doctrines; starting with Russel.  Rev 13:11
    The connection to Luke 21:8 is,
    “Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,  not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, (from anointed ones) as though the day of Christhad come.”  
    Surely, this happened many times over the years to deceive God’s people. To show we are close to the Lord’s arrival, Paul continues,  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” 2 Thess 2:3,4
    Okay.  We’re there, close to the return of Christ.  I can say this with confidence, because the Temple of God is comprised of the living stones - the anointed ones.  How would a man of sin/lawless “sit” in or on the “living stones”, since they are people and not a physical building?  It has happened because the delusion of Satan (2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:6) requires “Gentile” elders to rule over the “living stones”.  Priests are replaced with false priests.  The “Temple” has been defiled, which causes Rev 11:1-3 to commence.(Zech 4:10; Amos 7:7,8)  The true priests are individually being measured according to God’s righteous standards - how their own desirous passions within the heart will react with those standards.  Will they love truth in Christ, or Satan’s lie/delusion?  Should they continue eating fruit from a “tree” that is bad?   
    The wolves deceive many, they sprinkle truth with lies, those professing to have a godly devotion but “deny” its power reject the pureness of Christ’s word, a delusion overcomes a large number of people who choose to love the LIE instead of the TRUTH, they are  a people who would shun their own by throwing them out of the congregations for speaking truth in Christ.  (John 16:2; Rev 13:15)  TRUTH comes from a “good tree” that CAN’T produce a lie/bad fruit.
    The Watchtower is the delusion…of Satan’s.  In John 4, Jesus was telling the woman at the well, that there would come a time (which was even then) that we wouldn’t worship through our fleshly, earthly desires of what we physically see, but in spirit and truth. 
    Spirit and truth:  Both are found in Christ.  And for those branches still attached to the vine; for those trees who produce only good fruit, you will find it in them, when you recognize their consistent good fruits that last. (Perhaps some here may call it, OCD)  They have come out of the delusion, refined of Wt’s sins, and suffered for their testimony to spirit and truth – to Christ and experienced all the results of doing so, that Jesus spoke of for those who defend him and pure truth.  Rev 12:11   The “restoration” of true worship is the restoration of his Temple priests, the “living stones” restored to Christ the Head of the Temple.  Zech 4:6,7
     You will not find it in an established religion that is seen with the eyes – “neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.”  You will find it through the desire to have a personal relationship with God and Christ.  Jesus said, narrow is the road leading to life. It is a path where the focus is on Christ and his teachings; not a broadway leading to “fiery” destruction. (God’s Word is like “fire”, Jer 23:29)  He isn’t the destroyer and neither is Christ.  Satan leads one to destruction, as nothing in this world can give life.)  Wt. pictures of Armageddon show a mass of people walking a wide open road leading to a “paradise” while mankind behind them is being visibly massacred.  They make the claim, stick with the organization and salvation will be granted.  Each claim of theirs is a counterclaim made by Christ.  The true Zion is not seen with the physical eye, but through its “living stones” that speak fruit that will last. A good “tree” would not center on themselves, but on the original Tree of Life – Jesus Christ.   Truth is out there, JTR, and God will see to it that we find it if we are motivated to find it.  When I was in the organization and read Luke 11:9,10, I believed it wasn’t necessary to seek or ask, since the organization seemed to fulfill the scriptures; although I never was searching diligently when the organization found me, (2 Tim 3:6,7; Ezek 13:18; Gal 4:26; Rev 12:15) which didn’t begin until the hypocrisy showed its ugly head, the lies became transparent and disappointment in teachings took me right back to that scripture.  I was not disappointed by doing what it said. 
     
     
     
  5. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in JW's mistaken claim...   
    yeah, perhaps you are absolutely right. WT are very openly said to their members - do not look for higher education. Do not be "academic" in this way or another. Stick with what we have authorized and you will be safe. Well, what  is for Am Haarets left to do but to downsize their standards from middle level to level of "criticized", not only those who are "academic" but their own religious leaders who are "blind leaders of blind". Not my words, It is written in a one very known Academic book aka Bible. :))
  6. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Women Being Used To Do Roving Microphones ?   
    I do not see any reason why sister can not be in role or MS or elders, if she like/want that? NOT only in situation when there is no BAPTIZED male/brother/men. :))))
    Are not "appointed"/for example/ sister enough qualified? She will be Priest and King/Queen in Heaven??? The same is with "appointed" brother. He will be.... something, too., in Heaven. Or, He will be something better than She???!!! 
    Appointed or Regular all are equal !!!
    Who was Deborah? First of all, SHE was Woman. But for all Sons of Israel SHE was Judge and Prophet. And all must obeyed HER Decisions. This example is for those who believe in Bible reports and in God who not loves males more than females. 
    I do not see how these modest and humble characters of sisters can be so satisfied with "new duties", and can not see that/how macho/ patriarhal males inside JWorg only filling "holes" because that suits them in this particular moment. After when this need will no more be unnecessary, Corporation will put you where you "belong".... to clean toilets. :(((((  
    Very sad. People should doing things in what they are good and have talents and wishes, calls if you want. And not because their gender determinate what he/she are expected, "predestined" by society  or ordered to do.
     
     
     
  7. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Malum Intellectus in New Light   
    In reality that probably is true, but in the case of the Watchtower and its “sailors”, I tend to disagree. 
    “Brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers. You know that we who teach will be judged more severely.
    “ All of us make a lot of mistakes. If someone doesn’t make any mistakes when he speaks, he would be perfect. He would be able to control everything he does.  We put bits in the mouths of horses to make them obey us, and we have control over everything they do.  The same thing is true for ships. They are very big and are driven by strong winds. Yet, by using small rudders, pilots steer ships WHEREVER THEY WANT THEM TO GO.  In the same way the tongue is a small part of the body, but it can brag about doing important things.”
    1972 "Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" (Watchtower April 1, 1972, p. 197)
    “A large forest can be set on fire by a little flame.  The tongue is that kind of flame. It is a world of evil among the parts of our bodies, and it completely contaminates our bodies. The tongue sets our lives on fire, and is itself set on fire from hell.  People have tamed all kinds of animals, birds, reptiles, and sea creatures.  Yet, no one can tame the tongue. It is an uncontrollable evil filled with deadly poison.”
    “ With our tongues we praise our Lord and Father. Yet, with the same tongues we curse people, who were created in God’s likeness. “ Praise and curses come from the same mouth. My brothers and sisters, this should not happen!”
    1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)
    “ Do clean and polluted water flow out of the same spring?  My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree produce olives? Can a grapevine produce figs? In the same way, a pool of salt water can’t produce fresh water.”  James 3:1-12
     
     
     
     
     
  8. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Noble Berean in How isn't the premise of the GB a total contradiction?   
    The February 2017 WT had this to say about the GB:
    Compare this to the November 2016 WT which had this to say about the GB's authority:
    The GB wants the unquestioned control and the credit for leading God's organization, but they also wants total freedom from accountability when they are wrong. The existence of the org is based around everyone accepting this premise.
    But how is this premise not 100% illogical and absurd? The GB is presenting itself in 2 completely conflicting ways:
    The GB is uninspired, fallible, and errs, so they should not be blamed for incorrect direction. The GB should not be questioned by JWs, and there is no place for independent thinking. The GB cannot state they make errors in their direction and simultaneously demand unquestioned obedience to their direction. That doesn't make any sense. If anything, JWs should be skeptical of the GB's directions because of their history of incorrect direction. However, critical thinking is discouraged as a negative trait in organization literature--even when that thinking is based on the Bible.
    If there is a God, then surely he is just, and I cannot imagine he would structure an organization on such an illogical premise.
    Think of how this premise negatively affects JWs. Adherents are essentially commanded to follow direction that may be 100% wrong. They are told to "wait on Jehovah" if they have doubts. This also means that a JW could be punished for having a correct idea that is currently not in harmony with the GB. I'm sure this has happened with JWs over its history.
    Also, isn't it disturbing that the GB have set things up so that they have maximum control and minimum accountability? It's the definition of plausible deniability. Everyone here is well aware of the legal issues with blood transfusion rejection and the sex abuse. In these legal matters, it is pretty clear that the organization is distancing themselves from any accountability and is instead placing the burden on the individual JW. This flies in the face of the culture of the religion where everything a JW does revolves around supporting the organization. There is no room for personal opinion. To suggest otherwise in legal cases is very dishonest and shady. Moreover, it goes against the idea that their is an equal relationship--we're supposed to die over organizational doctrines but the GB won't even acknowledge their role in court proceedings?
    The very fact the organization uses plausible deniability in their literature is highly suspect. The fact that they can force JWs to follow their direction, but when it's wrong they can point to a WT and say, "See! We said we were fallible and uninspired!" It all smells dishonest and shady.
  9. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in If the Anointed Ones Were to Wake Up   
    I am sure that if they awoke to just who they are, the rest of the anointed ones in the organization -  may agree with Paul:
     
    "Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying: “Nothing beyond what is written.” The purpose is that none of you will be arrogant, favoring one person over another.  
    For I think God has displayed us, the apostles, in last place, like men condemned to die: We have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to people.  We are fools for Christ, but you are wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are distinguished, but we are dishonored!  Up to the present hour we are both hungry and thirsty; we are poorly clothed, roughly treated, homeless;  we labor, working with our own hands. When we are reviled, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;  when we are slandered, we respond graciously.
    Even now, we are like the scum of the earth, like everyone’s garbage." 1 Cor 4:6-13
     
     
     
  10. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in If the Anointed Ones Were to Wake Up   
    I was wondering where this post went.  The connection is the announcement about the new GB member.  It seemed necessary that two large pictures of him needed to be posted under that particular thread.  I felt it necessary to remind JWs that there are many potential "faithful and discreet slaves", if only they would wake up and consider Paul's words, and I'll include Matt 25:19-30 also.  
    It is interesting that a scripture landed in "controversy".
    I know you've got a big job, Librarian.  And I know I don't make it any easier.  Thank you for letting me continue here.
  11. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in If the Anointed Ones Were to Wake Up   
    John4:21 
    "Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
     
    Heb.10:14 
    "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. 15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
     
    John2:18 
    "So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?” 19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.”
     
    Jesus was not speaking here of his body of flesh. He said “in three days, *I* will raise it up”. Jesus did not raise up his own body of flesh. (see Rom.10:7,9; Acts 2:32). 
    Clearly, it was God who raised Christ from the dead. What “body” and “temple” then, did Jesus himself raise by his death and resurrection? 
    The scriptures are clear, that by Jesus’ ransom (Rev.5:9,10), he raised up the anointed (messianic/chosen ones) temple (Eph.2:6;1Cor.3:16; 1Pet.2:5,9; Eph.2:22,21,20; Ps.118:22; John2:19,21; 1Cor.12:27) of his body of 144000 (2Cor.1:21,22; Rev.7:4,3;14:1), the united body of which, each Chosen one, is a member (1Cor.12:12,13,14,20,27). 
     
    This is the very same temple, where the Father is worshiped in “Spirit and Truth” (1Tim.3:15; 1Pet.2:5; 1Cor.3:16; 2Cor.6:16;1Cor.6:19); those of the New Covenant who have God’s laws written on their hearts (Heb.10:16; Deut.6:6,8; Rev.14:1). This is the new place of worship, since the death of Christ. With his blood, he bought these chosen ones for God, to be God's priests (Rev.5:9,10), and to be Christ's "bride" (Eph.5:25; Rev.21:9,10).
    These are the representatives of the “True Religion” here on earth (2Cor.5:20; 1Cor.4:1; Mal.2:7; John7:18,38; Rev.21:6; 22:17;14:3,5).
     
    Jesus did not describe this arrangement of worship as being organized by men into a "religious" organization or corporation (Acts 17:24; Heb.9:11; Eph.2:10), 
    but rather, described it as guided by Holy Spirit and Truth (John4:24; 3:8; 16:13,14) under Christ as Head (Eph.5:23). The anointed did not consult and obey, nor were they under the direction of, a "governing body" in Jerusalem (Gal.1:11,12,17,15,16,10; 5:1; 2:4; Rom.6:16; 1Cor.7:23; 2Cor.11:20; Rev.2:20; Col.3:24) or some other man-made hierarchy. They were and are, taught collectively by Holy Spirit (1John2:20,27; John7:38,39; 17:26; Luke 12:12; 21:14,15; Rev.11:5,3,4;Matt.10:27,20; John16:13,14,15; 6:45), through the arrangement of Christ's "body"/"temple" (John15:4,5; Eph.2:20,21,22;1Pet.2:5,9; Mal.2:7), according to the various assignments of it's "parts" (Eph.4:11,12,13; 2:20,21; 1Cor.12:18,28,29,27;Eph.4:11,12). 
    As a collective "body" under Christ as Head; it is anointed with spirit, and is thereby sustained by the working of spirit, within it (1John2:20,27; Eph.4:11,12; Rom.12:5; John13:14) (John15:4,5; Rom.11:17; 1Cor.12:6,7).

    Paul confirms that he himself was lead directly by Holy Spirit, and not by an arrangement erected by men, atGal.1:10,11,12,15,16,17,18,19,20; Acts 15:8,9,10,36,41; Acts 16:6,7; John16:13; 14:17,26.
    For the "body of Christ", Jesus himself is the Head. As his "bride", all the members of his body submit to the arrangement of the parts, according to their order as arranged by Christ and God (Eph.4:11,12; 1Cor.12:28; Eph.4:14,15,16). 
    In this way, order and peace are established within Christ's "body" of chosen ones (1Cor.14:12,22,26,29,32,33,37,38,40; 12:18,28;Rom.12:6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13).
    The anointed priests are like branches attached to a vine / rootstock (John15:4,5; Rev.22:16; Rom.11:16). What they receive is sourced in Christ, not from men (John15:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,15,16; Eph.5:29; Rom.11:17,18,22; Col.2:2).

    Jesus once described the individual members of his body, as "trees". This illustration applies well, because just as a grapevine and its branches produce fruit (John15:5,8); these “trees” also provide “fruit” as spiritual food [Matt.12:33,35; Luke 6:45; <(Heb.13:15; Hosea14:2); Matt.7:17,20; Jer.17:7,8; Ps.1:2,3; Rev.22:1,2; John7:38; Prov.4:23]. 
    All the faithful fruitful ones, are dependent upon the sap/holy spirit/living water, coming from the throne/true vine/olive root (Col.2:7; Rom.11:17; John15:4,5; 1Cor.12:13; John 6:63; Luke 8:18). 
    If Christ removes holy spirit from an erring chosen one, that tree dries up (Mark 11:14,20,21; Joel 1:12; Mark 4:25; John 15:2,6;Col.2:19; Eph.4:16,11,12).
     
    Jesus described the fruit/teachings of the fine, true prophets, as being: SOURCED IN GOD’S WORD (John7:16,17,18; 8:47 a;John17:17; Matt.5:14; Ps.36:9; 1John1:5; Luke 11:35,36; John8:12; 1:4,5,14) and as PROMOTING THE GLORY/Righteousness OF GOD, not self-glory (Matt.6:33). This they could do, due to having God’s Laws written on their hearts, combined with the blessings of insight which Holy Spirit would grant them (1John2:20,27; 1Pet.2:9; Matt.13:11; 1Cor.2:12-14). They receive that spirit through their union with the Head (1Cor.6:17; 2:14; Eph.2:18; John17:23; 14:20) and the harmony with the whole "body" that would result. 
    This Chosen Priesthood, serve within God’s spiritual Temple, the "body" of Christ (Rev.3:11,12; 5:10; 7:15; 22:3,4; Mal.2:7;1Pet.2:5,9,10).
     
    In more modern times, many of these anointed priests congregated together. They became organized. Of course, Satan was not going to leave their activities undisturbed (Matt.13:24,25,26,27,28; Isa.63:18; Rev.11:2; Luke 22:31). The faithful work of doing God’s will, would always be resisted and opposed; right within the midst of these priests (Acts 20:29,30; 1Tim.4:1;Matt.24:4,5,24,25; 7:15; Rev.13:11; 2Thess.2:4,9; 2Cor.11:12,13; Matt.13:30). Those who form an organized hierarchy outside the body of Christ, help Satan to resist, defy, and malign God's arrangement (Isa.1:21; 1Cor.6:15 B; Rev.17:2,1; 2:20; Rev.18:4;2Cor.6:17)
    ("Who are the Kings of the Earth?").

    Not all anointed will prove faithful (Matt.25:1,2; 22:14). 
    Those who prove unfaithful, exchange love for their brothers and for truth, for worldly power and self-serving doctrines of men (John5:44; 1John3:10,11,13,14,15; Rev.17:6; 1John2:15; Rev.2:4; 2Thess.2:10,12; 1Cor.4:8; John7:16,18; Mark7:7; Rom.1:25). Those proving unfaithful, are the very ones who become proud, prominent, powerful, tyrannical, and abusive (Luke 16:8;22:24,25,26,27; 1John4:20; 2:9,11; 3:10,15), and dominate their brothers to their injury (Ec.8:9). 
    Where would anointed ones get such power? (Matt.4:8-10; Rev.9:1,3,7; 13:4,11,15)
    These unfaithful leave their subjection to Christ, leave unity with the body of Christ as arranged by God, and ally themselves with the power of Gentiles (not anointed), instead (Jer.17:5; Dan.11:31). 
    They betray their covenant with God [to have His laws on their heart -Jer.31:33; (*Deut.6:6,8; 11:18)], 
    to enter a covenant with Satan 
    [Jer.11:9,10,11; Rev.9:1,11; 13:1,4,11,12,15 (*Rev.13:16,17); Rev.17:1,3,5; Isa.28:15] (http://pearl-666.blogspot.com/). 
    They leave their confidence in the strength of God (Phil.4:13; Ps.18:2,3), for the worldly advantage and power that come from forming an alliance with those not anointed, and with them, create an Organization.
     
    This structural arrangement, (of unfaithful anointed heading up a non-anointed counterfeit priesthood), is a fabrication that stands in defiance of the authentic body/temple/priesthood of God, within which His spirit operates and dwells. It is a "disgusting thing" standing in a holy place...a "man of lawlessness" dominating the body of Christ, usurping Christ's headship over his Bride members.
    (Not anointed--spiritual Gentiles --Rom.2:28,29) 
    (Jer.17:5,7,13; 11:3,10,11,12; Rev.6:16; 2Chron.32:8; Ps.118:8; Isa.2:22; 30:1; Rev.17:3,7).
    This decision to dominate their brothers in Christ by means of the "muscle" of Gentiles, changes their designation from a chaste virgin of Christ 
    (2Cor.11:2; Rev.14:4,5; Eph.5:25,26,27; James 1:27; 1John2:15), 

    to that of a harlot 
    (Hosea 9:1; Jer.5:5; 2:20,19,21; 3:1,2; Isa.1:21; Eze.16:15)....

    ....from a vessel of truth and life 
    (John7:38,39; 1Tim.4:16; 2Cor.4:6,7; Rev.22:17) 

    to a vessel of deception and death 
    (Jer.2:21; Isa.5:2,4; Deut.32:32,33,15,18,6,16; Rev.13:15,8; Jer.11:17; Rev.14:9,10,18,19; 8:10,11). 

    Faithful anointed, are to have nothing to do with these unfaithful leaders (Ps.26:4; Isa.1:21; 1Cor.6:15; 10:21,22; 2Cor.6:16,17,18;Rev.18:4; 2Tim.3:5; Eph.5:11; 2Thess.3:6; Rom.16:17; Mark 13:14).
    But not all anointed stay clear of these unfaithful leading harlots (Rev.17:1,2,18,13)

    These too desire the stature which only inclusion within a worldly Gentile Organization can offer (Rev.17:2,12,13,17,18,16;1John2:15; John17:16; 8:13,23,37,40,59,42; 15:18; Isa.66:5; John16:2; Matt.24:9,10,11; 10:22). 
    The "world" into which Jesus came, was the unfaithful religious system of those in covenant with God. (Matt.15:24; Rom.1:16;Acts3:26) (John1:11; 3:19; 7:7; 8:44; Matt.23:33). 

    Just as that part of Satan's "world" (which hated Jesus -John15:18,25), were those unfaithful among God's people...
    So too, the unfaithful of God's people today, are also the "world" which hates the faithful 
    (John15:18; 16:2; Acts 5:33; Luke 12:45; 1John4:20; 3:12; John7:7; Rev.11:7,10).

    To be a genuine faithful ambassador of Christ, means to be rejected, despised and abandoned by that religious part of Satan's "world"...those who have rebelled against their covenant with God, which exact type of hatred and persecution, imitates the path of our Master, Christ (Rev.11:8; John15:18,20; Matt.10:24,25; 12:24; John16:20; 17:14; Matt.23:34; 1Cor.4:1,2,3,9,10,11,12,13;Heb.13:13; Matt.5:10,11,12; 1Pet.2:19,20,21,22,23).
    The secular world did not hate Jesus (Luke23:4,14,15; Matt.27:23; John18:36; 19:4,6).
    It is those whom the truth condemns, that hate the faithful (Mark 11:18; John7:1; 8:37,40; 11:53; 1John3:12; Jude 1:11;Rev.2:14,16; 2Thess.2:8,4; John3:20; Matt.24:9; 23:27,28,34,35; Rev.18:24; 17:6; Jer.51:49).
    The knowledge of who it is that persecutes and "kills" Christ's faithful end-time slaves, must be used to guide our interpretation of Revelation's warring identities, if we hope to understand it accurately.
    The “lawlessness” or, lack of Christ’s “law” of love displayed among the unfaithful anointed (John13:34; James 2:8; Matt.7:22,23;24:12; 25:42,43,44,45,41), has manifested itself in the midst of the faithful chosen, right from the start (2Thess.2:7; 1Cor.4:8). It was prophesied to intensify in the last days (Matt.24:12; 7:23; 2Tim.3:1,5,7,13; 2Thess.2:8).
     
    Yhwh aptly conveyed, that at the time of the end, when all would face judgment before God’s Throne (Rom.14:12; 2Cor.5:10;Matt.12:36), that there would be a people who would call themselves by His name (Jer.25:29,30; Rev.14:18,19). 
    There are many detailed prophecies how this people would fare during God’s inspection and judgment. 
    All those prophetic details are becoming clearly manifest in association within the unfolding events of the Organization known as "Jehovah’s Witnesses". Those details include the faithful anointed alongside the unfaithful…the constant scenario and climate which has always existed for the Chosen (Matt.13:30; Gen.3:15). The details of Revelation's symbolic scenarios and symbolic identities are also being fulfilled in association with that religious mountain (Rev.8:8; Zech.4:7).
     
    Because the parasitic anointed seek to garnish the blessing being received by the faithful, by exploiting, condemning, and yet capitalizing on their spiritual success and insight (Matt.25:8; Luke16:3; 13:24; John6:27; Matt.25:26); the “True Religion” will always be adulterated by those who cause divisions in the anointed body of Christ, and shame Jude 1:12,13,16,17,18,19. 

    Yet part of proving faithful, eventually requires that the faithful divorce themselves from the unclean...those who have been spotted by the world (1Cor.6:15,16,17; Isa.63:18,19; Matt.24:15,16; 2Cor.6:17). But not before they give a warning. 

    They will then be cast out, for this simple adherence to truth and subjection to Christ (Matt.10:16; 23:34; John16:2; Rev.11:2,3,7;13:15; 17:6; 6:9,10,11; 12:10,11; Matt.10:16,17,18,19,20,21,22,32,33; Mark 8:35).
    At the arrival of the Kingdom, those who exalt themselves will be humbled; and those who have humbled themselves and have continued to provide spiritual blessing in the midst of this persecution, will then be exalted (1Pet.5:6,10; James 4:10; Matt.23:12;2Thess.2:4,8).
    The challenge for all those seeking the “True Religion” is to identify the Chosen which are proving faithful. Jesus provided ample direction and instruction to empower us to do so. 
    According to prophecy, we must expect that the faithful, will be associated for a time with a powerful organization (of spiritual Gentiles) under the direction of the unfaithful (2Thess.2:4; Dan.7:25; 8:11,12,24,10; Rev.12:4,17; 11:2; 13:7). This is why Jesus illustration of his wicked Steward, points to anointed who are over other anointed (Matt.24:45,48,49,50,51; Hosea 6:5). 

    None should oppress, but rather, Jesus appoints such a one, to serve (1Pet.5:1,2,3,4; John13:14,15,16,17). 
    Jesus well knew ahead of time, that those proving unfaithful, would be those dominating their brothers without mercy and love (Matt.24:49,12; 7:23), and supporting that position based upon a lie of premature stature of divine approval (Matt.24:48; Matt.25:5; 2Thess.2:1,2,3; 2Cor.11:13; 2Tim.3:13) and the power of organized Gentiles (Wild Beast from the "sea"/"abyss"), who would seem directed by God's spirit/breath, due to the lies of a false prophet (Rev.13:15,14,7; 11:2). 
    But these unfaithful leaders would not have enough Holy Spirit to provide the “proper food at the proper time” (Matt.24:45; 25:8;John15:4; Col.2:18-19), but would substitute the truth with their own doctrines (John7:18,17; 8:47), which would empower the Beast/Organization that enforces their own authority (Rev.13:12,14; 9:1,2,3).
    Yet the faithful would continue to provide good fruit as fine trees….for the sustenance of any who “received” them (Matt.10:40,41,42; John13:20; 12:48; 15:8) and their sayings/teachings/fruit (Matt.7:20). 
    By accepting living water by means of the faithful vessels, (John4:10,14; 7:38; Isa.12:3; 1Tim.4:16; 2Cor.4:7; Matt.5:14,15,16;Rev.22:17), these accepting sheep can exercise faith in Christ according to Truth, and receive that living water's benefits (John17:3; 3:16; 4:14; Matt.10:40,41,42).
    “Where is the True Religion – Christ’s Body – God’s Temple”  Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness
     
     
     
     
     
  12. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in Coincidence or Correlation?   
    Personally, it was serendipitous to find a video – a “discovery”  - beneficial to further expose Wt’s darkness.
    It is apparently acceptable that Russel established 1914 on the measurements of the Pyramid of Giza.   And it is excused that he called it “God’s Stone Witness”.   There are two sides of the coin presented; are you saying one is blessed by God, the other evil? 
    If God was setting up an organization to restore true worship, it would not begin with falsehood and several changed dates each taught as facts with divine blessing.   From the outset, the Wt. had its foundation on lies, and lies shift to make room for more lies. Through Russel’s foolishness, the Bible Students were deceitfully misled, no different than today’s Wt. leaders do – continually misleading with mankind’s ideas.  Matt 7:24-27 
    Both sides of the coin presented in the video are evil, a reflection of the other. 
    I suppose this also has very good excuse and is coincidental
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHgH8KP7uGI
    The organization is Satan’s testing ground for the remaining anointed, and all others who fall into his trap.  Spiritual “Israel”/”Jews” are the anointed ones.  Those not anointed are spiritual “Gentiles”.   “Gentiles” stand watch over God’s anointed priesthood in the organization, not for their good but to scrutinize their actions.  Rom 8:29,20; Matt 15:24; 10:6; Rom 9:6-8
    “In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study. Wt 16/1
    According to Romans chapter 12, 1 Cor chapter 12; Eph 2:21,22; 4:1-8; 5:29, they are to seek out and show loving care for, their fellow anointed ones.  JWs turn away from these scriptures, preferring men’s authority over God’s, just as they prefer men’s choice of “shepherds” over God’s choice.
    Who is behind it? I’ve asked before, would God condone the replacement of his own priesthood?  His Temple?  Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4;1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 11:1-3
    Revelation is the book of signs and symbolism (Rev 1:1). John received the letters to the congregations when he was in the Spirit, on the Lord’s Day”, showing there was future meaning concerning the “seven stars and seven churches”. 
    "The mystery of the seven stars you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.”  Rev 1:20
    The lampstands are the congregations of “holy ones”  1 Cor 14:33 
    Stars signify messenger/angels with their foundation in the apostles and prophets. Eph 3:4,5; 2:20; Amos 3:7; Rev 10:7
    In the Lord’s day, “two witnesses” prophesy truth to their congregations of brothers in Christ. They are the two olive trees of the lampstands.  They serve Christ and are as messenger/angels to their brothers in Christ. Rev 11:1-3; Zech 4:11-14
    They shed “light” to the lampstand/congregations – the light of truth.   All anointed ones are to shed “light”, but Revelation 8:10 speaks of a fallen ‘one’ who seduces his fellow servants to believe in HIS lies, rejecting the teachings of the foundation stones of the Temple – the apostles/messengers/angels. 2 Thess 2:1-12; Rev 13:
    These “two witnesses” reveal the spiritual immorality committed by genuine anointed ones who move to dominate their brothers in Christ, without mercy. Matt 24:49,12;7:23  All those anointed who go with the flow of the program also remain in a fallen state:
    "Remember then how far you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. Otherwise, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.” Rev 2:5
    When a literal star falls, it loses it light – when an anointed one falls, no longer is it held in the hand of Christ as an illuminator in his truth which he shares with those who remain with him.  Rev 22:16   A “Beast from the earth” arises having “two” horns like a lamb – signifying anointed in Christ – but speaks like a dragon; deceit and lies on the tongue.  Rev 13:11 This beast fabricates/breathes life into/ another Beast with help from Satan.  It is a Beast that requires devotion, and organization that is loved.  How many believe it is invincible?   “Who is like the Beast ?  How many believe no one, no entity, can wage war with “Jehovah’s organization?”  Rev 9:1; Rev 13:11,12,14,15,1,2,4,5
    Revelation reveals in many illustrative ways, the last two Beasts to come against God’s chosen people.  Satan uses a fallen star/(s) to spearhead his last deceitful ploy against the anointed ones.  Russel did not illuminate truth, but lies.  Rutherford…on down to today’s GB illuminate their own human thinking which is obvious in changed/failed/false doctrine and failed dates.  The organization won’t be restored, although many hope it will;  but only those individual “stars”, living stones of the Temple of God, who listen to Christ’s warnings and respond, will be ‘restored’. Isa 43:1; Zech 4:6-10  Only those who are presently with them and who listen and respond to Christ’s warnings will be saved.
    “Write to the angel of the church in Smyrna:  “The First and the Last, the One who was dead and came to life, says:  I know youraffliction and poverty, yet you are rich. I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 
    How does the elder body “Gentiles”/pseudo “Jews”/priests slander God’s anointed people?  By telling them not to meet together, questioning their anointing, disfellowshipping them for serving Christ, and condoning the replacement of God’s anointed priesthood with “Gentile” elders.”
    10 Don’t be afraid of what you are about to suffer. Look, the Devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will have affliction for 10 days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crownof life. Rev 2:8-11
    (Matt 24:21; Rev 7:14) 
    “And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.”  Luke 22:31
    “Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elemental forces of the world, and not based on Christ.”  Col 2:8
    Every false teaching, every failed doctrine, every failed date in the timeline of the organization is empty deceit, that cannot originate with Christ, although the Wt. boasts Christ is the “Head of the congregation”.  The “faithful and true” Christ, does not have a share in “empty deceit”; not in the Pharisees time, and not in the organization.  Rev 19:11
    “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock.  The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn’t collapse, because its foundation was on the rock.  But everyone who hears these words of Mine and doesn’t act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.  The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. And its collapse was great!”  Matt 7:24-27
    Each of Wt’s leaders has rejected Christ – the rock.  Through their own self-will they boast in their  human thinking; and far from the words of Christ.  Rom 9:33; 1 Pet 2:8 
    For those who successfully reject this empty philosophy IN FRONT OF A JUDICIAL COMMITTEE, and uphold only truth in Christ – HIS WORD-, proclaiming to all their anointed brothers and brethren the deceptive lies that Satan holds them to, Jesus says:
    “I know your works. Because you have limited strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name, look, I have placed before you an open door that no one is able to close. Take note! I will make those from the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews and are not, but are lying…
    The elder body has adapted scriptures pertaining to the anointed Body of Christ…to themselves, authorized by their rulers, the GB.  Matt 24:48-51; Rev 2:20
    “Gifts in men” also help us to “attain to the oneness in the faith.” (Ephesians 4:8, 13) This means that elders help the congregation to stay united. They help us to improve our Christian personality when they work along with us in our service to Jehovah and when they come to us and give us counsel from the Bible.  Wt 12/7/15
    JWs, if you truly want to know who the appointed “gifts in men” are, read Eph. 4:11,12 which they cunningly left out.
    …—note this—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and they will know that I have loved you. 10 Because you have kept My command to endure, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is going to come over the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11 I am coming quickly. Hold on to what you have, so that no one takes your crown. 12 The victor: I will make him a pillar in the sanctuary of My God, and he will never go out again. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God—the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God—and My new name.  “Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.  Rev 3:8-13
    Each anointed one must be found pure and blameless to be accepted into the Kingdom.  2 Cor 11:2; Rev 14:4,5; Eph 5:25-27; James 1:27; 1 John 2:15   If they continue to drink from a cesspool of lies emitted from the mouth of their harlot leaders, they simply will not get there. Rev 17:1,2
    To you, dear JTR, whose eyes are almost completely open; I pray you allow Holy Spirit to open them completely.  Rev 3:18  It is time for all JWs to get out of the synagogue of Satan. Rev 18:4-8
     
     
     
  13. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Coincidence or Correlation?   
    You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot share in the Lord’s table and the table of demons.  Or are we provoking the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?  1 Cor 10:21
    For nothing is concealed that won’t be revealed, and nothing hidden that won’t be made known and come to light.  Luke 8:17
    Now this is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light, and there is absolutely no darkness in Him.  1 John 1:5
     
     
     
     
  14. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Malum Intellectus in New Light   
    It appears you are being blessed with the light of Christ and spiritual understanding! 
    Surely we would not want to relate failed teachings with anything to do with God?     Nothing – nothing, can be compared to God.  Isa 40:18,25   Aligning “Keeping pace with Jehovah’s organization” to Ezekiel’s chariot is a slanderous statement by the organization.  The four living creatures are not attributes of God, but are the same four living creatures who bow down before the lamb in Rev 5:8   The significance of the chariot, the four living creatures moving in one direction, depict the “144,000”/Body of Christ/”priesthood” – the completed heavenly Kingdom of God and salvation for His children.  Ezek 1:8-14; Eph 4:4-6 ; Heb 8:5; 12:22-24,28,29
    Yes. What is the source of the wind?  Nana began to answer it, but stopped short:
     
    In completion it says,
    then we will no longer be little children, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, by human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit.  
    Of course, Satan would be behind such techniques.  (2 Cor 11:3; 1 Pet 3:10)
      If anyone thinks he is religious without controlling his tongue, his religion is useless and he deceives himself.  James 1:26
    15 But speaking the truth in love, let us grow in every way into him who is the head—Christ. 16 From him the whole body, fitted and knit together by every supporting ligament, promotes the growth of the body for building up itself in love by the proper working of each individual part.
    This reflects Ezekiel’s chariot as God’s workings through Christ and his Bride in the Kingdom.  It is referring to the anointed Body of Christ – not the counterfeit Body of Elders. 
    “And he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 equipping the saints for the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into maturity with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.”
    Therefore, putting away lying, speak the truth, each one to his neighbor, because we are members of one another. 
    Would it be so hard to speak the truth to one another, if our hearts were motivated by authentic love?  Do Wt’s leaders exhibit love when they mislead with their human thinking?  If one were to present the long list of dates to the GB, what would they say?  Would they then describe all that "new light" as tacking?  Yep, no apologies needed.
    Watchtower’s spirit “tacks” against the Spirit of the Father and Christ.
    From the symbolic book of Revelation chapter 13:
    “And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads. On its horns were ten crowns, and on its heads were blasphemous names”
    The beast was given a mouth to utter boasts and blasphemies. It was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme his name and his dwelling—those who dwell in heaven.  (comparing Ezekiel’s chariot to the organization – one example)
     “And it was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. (Eph 6:12)  It was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation.”
    “Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.” (False prophet)
    “It exercises all the authority of the first beast on its behalf and compels the earth and those who live on it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.”
    The GB exercises authority – presently – over the organization’s direction, and fosters the idea that it is vital to revere, never disconnect from, praise the organization as the source of spiritual food. 
    “It was permitted to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast could both speak and cause whoever would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.” 
    Granted to this false prophet by the “dragon” is a spirit that is breathed into the beast from sea – the “spirit-directed organization”.  If we refuse to acknowledge the organization as salvation, bringing to attention its false teachings – past or present – we are “killed”.  Spiritually viewed as dead in God’s eyes.
    John 16:1-3 - “I have told you these things to keep you from stumbling. 2 They will ban you from the synagogues (“congregations”) . In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering service to God. 3 They will do these things because they haven’t known the Father or me.”
    I presented these scriptures to a JW just recently.  Her answer was very revealing:
    “That scripture is about people who think they are Christian, and will turn against Jesus’ followers.”
    That is, the essence of disfellowshipping Christ’s anointed ones and their brethren, for choosing to serve God and Christ with their whole heart, mind and soul,;and who believe in the light of Christ over the darkness of false teachings.   Deut 6:5; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27
    I do wish JWs could see this, how the organization teaches another gospel.  
     “In the past, we thought that the great tribulation began in 1914 when World War I started. We thought that Jehovah “cut short” those days in 1918 when the war ended so that the remaining anointed ones on earth could preach the good news to all nations. (Matthew 24:21, 22) After that preaching work would be completed, we expected that Satan’s world would be destroyed. So we thought that there were three parts to the great tribulation. It would begin in 1914, it would be interrupted in 1918, and it would finish at Armageddon.”  Wt 13/7/15 
    They gave the sheep wrong advice. 
    How happy is the one who does not
    walk in the advice of the wicked
    or stand in the pathway with sinners
    or sit in the company of mockers!
    The word for “mockers” is “luwts” meaning,
    ambassador, have in derision, interpreter, make a mock, mocker, scorn, talk arrogantly, teacher.
    Basically this scripture is telling me, we are most happy staying away from a wicked, arrogant teacher, mockingly interpreting his own advice as “new light”, which describes the governing body – false ambassadors representing Christ.  (Matt 24:24; 2 Cor 5:20)
    2 Instead, his delight is in the Lord’s instruction,
    and he meditates on it day and night.
     
     
  15. Like
    Witness reacted to Shiwiii in Elders’ Training Videos for 2018: Pioneering is Just a Title, a Reward and a Punishment   
    That's the part I don't get either. 
     
    I don't think if it were proven true that it would make any difference to you JTR. You'd still throw your hat in their camp, because its the best game in town, in your view. You've said as much. Your last sentence is a complete contradiction of what they have said for years and years, but its still not enough to convince you that this group the jws/wt is following men, use to be 7 men and now 8 again. You had mentioned in a different post that you are with the jws and it doesn't matter who is in charge or leading the group. While I agree that there are some fine folks who are jws and moral people they are for the most part, its still lemming mentality to continue to follow the group just because they are nice people being led by who knows. I will also apologize now for singling out just you here, I am sorry, I do not mean to make you upset or have a distaste for me. I like you, I like your sense of humor and your wit, and that is why I singled you out. 
    I would hope that instances like this would make a person pause, take a step back and take an honest look at what is being taught/told/demanded of jws. The compounding problems that are coming up from this org should be enough for people to open their eyes and do diligent research on EVERYTHING, but sadly many are in a position in which they either cannot leave due to family, or are so blinded that they cannot see what is going on. When a group tells its people be ready to obey our instruction no matter how crazy we sound, that right there should be a red flag. Ignoring the obvious doesn't make it go away.  I see it daily, the jws keep on the edge of their seats waiting for the next hoop that they need to jump through to look good to each other. Its like high school, except in high school we didn't know any better and now as adults some still need that social group to belong to and refuse to grow up. 
  16. Like
    Witness reacted to Shiwiii in Elders’ Training Videos for 2018: Pioneering is Just a Title, a Reward and a Punishment   
    I can appreciate and understand COMPLETELY your position. It is also the reason why I decided to cancel my subscription to participate in the armed forces. Your point is very valid and your perspective is a correct one. I too have a different view of that exact structure and what it fosters. 
    I fully acknowledge that the leadership of military organizations is chocked full of folks who have no business being in the positions they are in. It was my personal experiences that led me to reject that form of employment. I worked in many of the places that the "brass" did because of my abilities and training, I was secure comm and was slotted to become one of the elite. What I could not handle and agree with were the very things you mention. I could not continue to support an organization that deliberately went against morality to save face for a few, all the while putting those under them in harms way because of it. So I left. It really is no difference in the corporate world, except your are not there to protect anything but the higher ups bonus and no one is in harms way. 
    When this philosophy is attached my eternal destiny, and not just my paycheck, things take a very different course of action. I do not throw my hat in ANY ring! Do I have fellowship? yes. Do I have those whom I seek for help on Spiritual matters? yes. Are they the end all be all and no questions when it comes to their interpretation? no. I cannot allow someone else to take the rudder out of my hands on something so important as this. Am I perfect and have all of the answers? no, but who is the one to answer to God when that day comes? Me and only me. So when I see organizations, such as the wt, make such high demands upon their members without the ability for them to question or disagree, I have to speak up about it. 
    I am no prophet nor fortuneteller, but I strongly believe you will never see this happen, no one will. The reason why is the mistakes being made are far to serious and underhanded to be forgotten or dismissed to the educated mind. As our world progresses so does common knowledge (we hope), and it is only a matter of time before the truth about the "truth" comes out in such a way that the society/wt goes the way of the dodo. People are only as stupid as they allow themselves to be. If people choose to hide their head in the sand and ignore what is really going on, they will be ignorant and accept whatever is being fed to them. The history of this org and their claims and practices  should be enough, but at this point it isn't. One must now look into the past and compare the current teachings, if the material isn't lost or changed, and truly see if God is backing their actions. I have researched these things and cannot believe that God has anything to do with this org. Just like you said "All civilizations grow and evolve, and the casualties are ENORMOUS.   The United States of America has committed innumerable sins and evils in it's pursuit of righteousness, equity and Justice ... and is continuing to do so." , but none of the civilizations were the answer to our eternal destiny. It is a growth process, but you can only grow so very far by tyranny. Tyranny like those of the Pharaohs and Pharisees is what we are looking at within the wt from my view.  
     
     
  17. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in New Light   
    Something just dawned on me from your comment.  Although, the organization says it is “spirit-directed”, this title was bestowed on it by its leaders.  Rev 13:11,13,14,15
    12/1/1981 Wt.  However it may seem to some as though that path has not always gone straight forward.  At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view.  But this has not actually been the case.  This might be compared to what is known in navigational circles as “tacking”.  By maneuvering the sails the sailors can cause a ship to go from right to left, back and forth, but all the time making progress toward their destination in spite of contrary winds.  And that goal in view for Jehovah’s servants is the “new heavens and a new earth” of God’s promise.
    Those in control of the sails are the GB.  The spirit that leads them in such errors has already settled into the heart. Luke 6:45   In a sense, the “wind” begins as an external force but reaches into the mind and heart of the one maneuvering the organization, or “boat”.  Rev 13:11,1,2,4
    If these men had the Spirit of Christ within them, the path taken would be straight.  Matt 3:3   To say their convincing lies will still lead one into God’s promise, is blasphemy.  Prov 2:10-17
    Jesus said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.”  John 5:19
    Also, the Spirit of God must remain in the heart of the anointed ones, otherwise they cannot be guided by Christ’s teachings, which hold the Spirit. John 6:63; 15:4; 5:38  They can fall from this grace, losing what they had initially received through the anointing, allowing another spirit to fills one’s heart, which Jesus showed us is evident by teachings.  John 15:5-8; Matt 7:15-20
    Can those who contain this alternate spirit practice deceit without it?  They too, have a Father who infuses his will and direction into them.  Luke 4:7,8
    “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.”  John 8:44
    Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.  Luke 22:3
    Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.  John 6:70,71
    New light and tacking, are just excuses for deceit and lies. They are derived from the resources of men, who do not hold God’s Spirit within their heart. Otherwise, there would be no list.     I stay with my thought that the Watchtower’s spirit is “tacking” against the Spirit of God and Christ.  Perhaps these are contrary winds they are speaking of.
     
  18. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Nana Fofana in New Light   
    Something just dawned on me from your comment.  Although, the organization says it is “spirit-directed”, this title was bestowed on it by its leaders.  Rev 13:11,13,14,15
    12/1/1981 Wt.  However it may seem to some as though that path has not always gone straight forward.  At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view.  But this has not actually been the case.  This might be compared to what is known in navigational circles as “tacking”.  By maneuvering the sails the sailors can cause a ship to go from right to left, back and forth, but all the time making progress toward their destination in spite of contrary winds.  And that goal in view for Jehovah’s servants is the “new heavens and a new earth” of God’s promise.
    Those in control of the sails are the GB.  The spirit that leads them in such errors has already settled into the heart. Luke 6:45   In a sense, the “wind” begins as an external force but reaches into the mind and heart of the one maneuvering the organization, or “boat”.  Rev 13:11,1,2,4
    If these men had the Spirit of Christ within them, the path taken would be straight.  Matt 3:3   To say their convincing lies will still lead one into God’s promise, is blasphemy.  Prov 2:10-17
    Jesus said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.”  John 5:19
    Also, the Spirit of God must remain in the heart of the anointed ones, otherwise they cannot be guided by Christ’s teachings, which hold the Spirit. John 6:63; 15:4; 5:38  They can fall from this grace, losing what they had initially received through the anointing, allowing another spirit to fills one’s heart, which Jesus showed us is evident by teachings.  John 15:5-8; Matt 7:15-20
    Can those who contain this alternate spirit practice deceit without it?  They too, have a Father who infuses his will and direction into them.  Luke 4:7,8
    “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.”  John 8:44
    Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.  Luke 22:3
    Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.  John 6:70,71
    New light and tacking, are just excuses for deceit and lies. They are derived from the resources of men, who do not hold God’s Spirit within their heart. Otherwise, there would be no list.     I stay with my thought that the Watchtower’s spirit is “tacking” against the Spirit of God and Christ.  Perhaps these are contrary winds they are speaking of.
     
  19. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in New Light   
    It appears you are being blessed with the light of Christ and spiritual understanding! 
    Surely we would not want to relate failed teachings with anything to do with God?     Nothing – nothing, can be compared to God.  Isa 40:18,25   Aligning “Keeping pace with Jehovah’s organization” to Ezekiel’s chariot is a slanderous statement by the organization.  The four living creatures are not attributes of God, but are the same four living creatures who bow down before the lamb in Rev 5:8   The significance of the chariot, the four living creatures moving in one direction, depict the “144,000”/Body of Christ/”priesthood” – the completed heavenly Kingdom of God and salvation for His children.  Ezek 1:8-14; Eph 4:4-6 ; Heb 8:5; 12:22-24,28,29
    Yes. What is the source of the wind?  Nana began to answer it, but stopped short:
     
    In completion it says,
    then we will no longer be little children, tossed by the waves and blown around by every wind of teaching, by human cunning with cleverness in the techniques of deceit.  
    Of course, Satan would be behind such techniques.  (2 Cor 11:3; 1 Pet 3:10)
      If anyone thinks he is religious without controlling his tongue, his religion is useless and he deceives himself.  James 1:26
    15 But speaking the truth in love, let us grow in every way into him who is the head—Christ. 16 From him the whole body, fitted and knit together by every supporting ligament, promotes the growth of the body for building up itself in love by the proper working of each individual part.
    This reflects Ezekiel’s chariot as God’s workings through Christ and his Bride in the Kingdom.  It is referring to the anointed Body of Christ – not the counterfeit Body of Elders. 
    “And he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 equipping the saints for the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into maturity with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.”
    Therefore, putting away lying, speak the truth, each one to his neighbor, because we are members of one another. 
    Would it be so hard to speak the truth to one another, if our hearts were motivated by authentic love?  Do Wt’s leaders exhibit love when they mislead with their human thinking?  If one were to present the long list of dates to the GB, what would they say?  Would they then describe all that "new light" as tacking?  Yep, no apologies needed.
    Watchtower’s spirit “tacks” against the Spirit of the Father and Christ.
    From the symbolic book of Revelation chapter 13:
    “And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads. On its horns were ten crowns, and on its heads were blasphemous names”
    The beast was given a mouth to utter boasts and blasphemies. It was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme his name and his dwelling—those who dwell in heaven.  (comparing Ezekiel’s chariot to the organization – one example)
     “And it was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. (Eph 6:12)  It was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation.”
    “Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.” (False prophet)
    “It exercises all the authority of the first beast on its behalf and compels the earth and those who live on it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.”
    The GB exercises authority – presently – over the organization’s direction, and fosters the idea that it is vital to revere, never disconnect from, praise the organization as the source of spiritual food. 
    “It was permitted to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast could both speak and cause whoever would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.” 
    Granted to this false prophet by the “dragon” is a spirit that is breathed into the beast from sea – the “spirit-directed organization”.  If we refuse to acknowledge the organization as salvation, bringing to attention its false teachings – past or present – we are “killed”.  Spiritually viewed as dead in God’s eyes.
    John 16:1-3 - “I have told you these things to keep you from stumbling. 2 They will ban you from the synagogues (“congregations”) . In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering service to God. 3 They will do these things because they haven’t known the Father or me.”
    I presented these scriptures to a JW just recently.  Her answer was very revealing:
    “That scripture is about people who think they are Christian, and will turn against Jesus’ followers.”
    That is, the essence of disfellowshipping Christ’s anointed ones and their brethren, for choosing to serve God and Christ with their whole heart, mind and soul,;and who believe in the light of Christ over the darkness of false teachings.   Deut 6:5; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27
    I do wish JWs could see this, how the organization teaches another gospel.  
     “In the past, we thought that the great tribulation began in 1914 when World War I started. We thought that Jehovah “cut short” those days in 1918 when the war ended so that the remaining anointed ones on earth could preach the good news to all nations. (Matthew 24:21, 22) After that preaching work would be completed, we expected that Satan’s world would be destroyed. So we thought that there were three parts to the great tribulation. It would begin in 1914, it would be interrupted in 1918, and it would finish at Armageddon.”  Wt 13/7/15 
    They gave the sheep wrong advice. 
    How happy is the one who does not
    walk in the advice of the wicked
    or stand in the pathway with sinners
    or sit in the company of mockers!
    The word for “mockers” is “luwts” meaning,
    ambassador, have in derision, interpreter, make a mock, mocker, scorn, talk arrogantly, teacher.
    Basically this scripture is telling me, we are most happy staying away from a wicked, arrogant teacher, mockingly interpreting his own advice as “new light”, which describes the governing body – false ambassadors representing Christ.  (Matt 24:24; 2 Cor 5:20)
    2 Instead, his delight is in the Lord’s instruction,
    and he meditates on it day and night.
     
     
  20. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Malum Intellectus in New Light   
    "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will  be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?"  1 Pet 4:17
    Your leaders said,
    “Come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation”  Wt. 1981/11/15 p. 212
    The apostle Peter said,
    “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”  Acts 4:12
    Are there two paths to salvation?  
    “Although Jesus was the Son of God, he learned to be obedient through his sufferings. After he had finished his work, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for everyone who obeys him." Heb 5:8
    Go back to 1953  -
    “Ask yourself now, Did Christ Jesus, who set our example and told us to follow his example to gain life, join any church organization in his day?  No.  God does not require us to do that; but he requires us to worship him…We have the Bible to show us the right way.  Certainly it is not necessary for a person to become a member of a church to gain everlasting life.”  Wt. 1953/3/1 p. 143
    Now…consider what is said in ‘Make Sure of All Things”, pg 323
    “Righteous flee to God’s Mountain-like Organization”
    Are you feeling a bit burdened down with the “flip-flopping”?  You should be burdened down by the hypocrisy.
    Jesus said, Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.  For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matt 11:28-30
    But do JWs listen to him?  
    One more from the Watchtower.
    “To survive, we must keep our faith strong and loyally worship Jehovah with his organization.”   Wt 14/5/15  pp. 21-26
    There are two powers at work here, Nana; the influence of men filling your mind with contradictions, and the straight-forward Spirit of God through Christ.
    “What gives life is God's Spirit; human power is of no use at all. The words I have spoken to you bring God's life-giving Spirit. 64 Yet some of you do not believe.” (Jesus knew from the very beginning who were the ones that would not believe and which one would betray him.)” John 6:63-64
    Shouldn’t you question your teachers about their contradictory words?  What are they hiding from you, if not the true Christ and HIS words?
    “My friends, not many of you should become teachers. As you know, we teachers will be judged with greater strictness than others”.  James 3:1
    “Are there any of you who are wise and understanding? You are to prove it by your good life, by your good deeds performed with humility and wisdom. 14 But if in your heart you are jealous, bitter, and selfish, don't sin against the truth by boasting of your wisdom. 15 Such wisdom does not come down from heaven; it belongs to the world, it is unspiritual and demonic.” James 1:13-15 
    Can an organization boast salvation, when God has already brought it to us through Christ?  Well, no, as the quote from 1953 verifies.    Can an organization call itself “the truth” when Christ proclaimed HE is the truth and the Way to life, the Way to God?  John 14:6 
    “But the wisdom from above is pure first of all; it is also peaceful, gentle, and friendly; it is full of compassion and produces a harvest of good deeds; it is free from prejudice and hypocrisy.”
    What good deeds on the part of the Wt. leaders, do you find in their announcement of prophesy and doctrine that was later dropped?     Amos 8:11
    “On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” John 7:37,38
    "But whoever drinks from the water that I will give him will never get thirsty again. In fact, the water I will give him will become a well of water springing up in him for eternal life." John 4:14
    Water represents teachings in the Bible.   Just the list of dates alone lacks living water from Christ.  Are the contradictory quotes issued from the same mouth, evidence of life-giving teachings?  You must agree, absolutely not; which proves JWs do not know Christ, because your teachers have no living water from Christ, within them.  Matt 7:15-20  AND…it doesn’t appear, then disappear. The living water of Christ within the heart of an anointed one is constant and eternal.   
    “No spring of water pours out sweet water and bitter water from the same opening.  A fig tree, my friends, cannot bear olives; a grapevine cannot bear figs, nor can a salty spring produce sweet water.”  James 3:11,12
    The organization and its leaders have pushed Christ aside, but still mentions him; They have also pushed aside the anointed who are part of his Body, but still mentions them.   It has assumed the role of Mediator between God and men.  The GB has assumed the role of Headship over the anointed Body of Christ.  All of this was prophesied to happen.  Rev. chapter 13; 2 Thess 2:1-12 
    “For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus”  2 Tim 2:5
    You are taught the “gospel” of the Watchtower organization; not the gospel of Christ, and most definitely not what the apostles taught.    No one can begin to know Christ unless they break away from perverted gospel. 
     “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!”  2 Cor 11:3,4
    I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
    10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
    Watchtower’s words about a past summer’s conventions:  “The conventions will examine Jesus’ life as outlined in the Bible and emphasize how all, can benefit in practical ways from His example and teachings."
    This is the summation of the teachings of Jesus by JWs.   Practicality.
    "Have you not even read this Scripture: ‘The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone; This came about from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes’?” Mark 12:10,11
    Will Jehovah's Witnesses recognize Christ's marvelous presence, or will their perception be altered by a continuous declaration of a failed date of his arrival? Christ began ruling in the heavens NOT in 1914, but upon his ascension; and if one adulates praise to false prophets teaching a false doctrine, as well as believing in spiritual safety (peace, paradise) to be found only through and within an earthly organization, they will not see the glory of Christ's return.
    "So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore IF YOU DO NOT WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you." Rev 3:3
    " While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape". 1 Thess 5:3
    Would the Father in heaven keep us hanging by a dangling chord continually unraveled by changing doctrine? No. His word is concise and PURE, never allowing darkness (the list of rejected dates) to overcome the light of truth.  Within the confined walls of the organization, Christ's light is snuffed out through practicality and deceit. He calls his anointed ones, and all who care to listen, to come to HIM, to “come out” (Rev 18:4-8)  from the captive walls of an organization built on arrogance, pride, its boasting that it is salvation; and suppression of his own brothers, through disfellowshipping and shunning those who dare question the Governing Body/Harlot and her cohort the Wild Beast/organization/elder body.  Tell me, if JWs believe in Christ, why is it the GB’s “fellow servants” can be disfellowshipped for rejecting their pseudo headship over them, when realizing they must turn to Jesus as their only Master? Matt 24:48-51; Rev 11:1-3,7-10; Luke 12:11,12; 21:12
    Doesn’t this make you wonder why someone would be deemed as spiritually “dead” for following God’s Son? John 16:2  WHO, would love to see the end of Christ and his anointed ones, but Satan?  WHO, was behind the hunting of Jesus to kill him when he was a child?  WHERE, are the anointed ones now found – conveniently?  Rev 16:13-16
    And WHO, are you obeying, Christ or men? What glory do you see, and what glory do you seek; that of a "mountainlike" manmade religion.....or that of Christ, who radiates the glory of the Father?   Phil 3:18,19; Zech 4:7
     

     
  21. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Malum Intellectus in New Light   
    Dear Cheepcheep, thank you for your polite response. Although you are trying to look at the organization’s “tacking” objectively, you have not mentioned the light of Christ in your comment.  Each attempt by the Watchtower to “tack” and teach it as truth, which we know they do, corrupts the Word of God.  I am sorry, but there really is no excuse that can be made by their “tacking” example.  You covered a lot of subjects in your paragraph, in which I personally feel are errors in their teaching; perhaps more suitable for another topic.  Appreciatively, Librarian always keeps me in check.
    “Therefore, since we have this ministry because we were shown mercy, we do not give up. 2 Instead, we have renounced secret and shameful things, not acting deceitfully or distorting the word of God, but commending ourselves before God to everyone’s conscience by an open display of the truth. 3 But if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we are not proclaiming ourselves (as the Watchtower does) but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’s sake. 6 For God who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of God’s glory in the face of Jesus Christ.  2 Cor 4:1-6
    I hope you can see that ChristÂ’s light in the heart of a righteous one, is the knowledge of God; and is accurate knowledge to feed sheep appropriately and correctly.
    You said, “It does not take a direct line, but must tack or zig zag back n forth at the angle of the direction of the wind or spirit. This is very well and reasonable if true”
    I suppose Wt. uses these words of Christ:  “The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”  (John 3:8)…this doesn’t mean the Spirit takes a faithful anointed one down any wrong path (which failed doctrines – are), as if to teach them a lesson.    It is the Spirit – “breath” -  of God/Christ working in an individual, leading them in knowledge, and as God wills.  Examples of this spirit wind:
    “He said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man. Say to it: This is what the Lord GOD says: Breath, come from the four winds and breathe into these slain so that they may live! " Ezek 37:9
    “Suddenly a sound like that of a violent rushing wind came from heaven, and it filled the whole house where they were staying. Then they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them”  Acts 2:2,4
    And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”  John 20:22
    God’s Spirit has not filled Watchtower’s sails and led them in a zig zag pattern through the years.  His ways are perfect.  The tacking theory puts the blame on God for men’s false predictions.  There are ample Bible references telling us to keep on the straight path, the only path, which should warn us NOT to fall for Watchtower’s tacking analogy.  Ps 27:11; 2 Pet 2:15; Jer 31:9; Prov 4:26; Isa 26:7; Prov 15:21; Luke 3:5; Heb 12:13; John 1:23; Prov 11:5; Ps 119:128; 107:7
    When I posted my above comment elsewhere, this was the response from two (I believe both were) ex-Witnesses.
    “The problem with the JWs use of Prov.4:18, ‘light getting brighter’, is, it is a misuse. Plucked and distorted from it’s true context. They pluck it from scripture and place it in an illegitimate relationship to excuse previous ‘misunderstandings’ of Bible prophecy, passages. They force fit it in use to self-pardon wrong and false prophetic summations and acclamations. By their application as such, they narrow this passage down to nothing more than a generic excuse scripture, missing its true meaning.—..........—Christ said ‘I am the light of the world’ ‘I am the lamp’. In Leviticus Ch.24 the people themselves were to bring flour and oil for the use in the tabernacle. It personifies a savior, Christ. Christ said ‘I am the bread and light’. Our light gets brighter in our continuing relationship with Christ and our Father. The whole context in Prov. chapter 4 is about relationship and the paths of righteousness vs. the path of wickedness.—..........—JWs have relegated it to something far less, missing it’s deeper meaning and structure. They have pawned it off as nothing more than an excuse passage.”
    "Flour and oil". I was just thinking about that yesterday, when considering the widow who fed Elijah, with, flour and oil. Jesus told us in John ch.4, that the worship that results in life, is done with spirit and truth. The "bread from heaven" is Jesus Christ, the "way, truth, and life". I see the flour, as a symbol for truth.
    The Bible uses golden oil, to symbolize the spirit. Kings and priests were anointed with the holy anointing oil, and since Christ, there is an anointing with spirit. That spirit combines with the truths of God's word, resulting in life. From the spirit and truth given to us, we are expected to prepare an offering to God... the "fruit of our lips" that confesses what we have received. Those who do this, are given more... the real meaning of light, getting brighter.
    Yes maÂ’am, and our very lives are confessions of fruitage in that path of righteousness. The light in our relationship grows brighter and stronger, the love deepens.
    Unless we step away from Watchtower and its “new light” we can’t see the absurdity of the list of “new light” dates; which are only part of changed, as well as faulty doctrines (“faithful and discreet slave”, who are the “great crowd”, the role of the “royal priesthood”, the “good news”, etc. – Yes! )
    I do hope you see this.
  22. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in New Light   
    Dear Cheepcheep, thank you for your polite response. Although you are trying to look at the organization’s “tacking” objectively, you have not mentioned the light of Christ in your comment.  Each attempt by the Watchtower to “tack” and teach it as truth, which we know they do, corrupts the Word of God.  I am sorry, but there really is no excuse that can be made by their “tacking” example.  You covered a lot of subjects in your paragraph, in which I personally feel are errors in their teaching; perhaps more suitable for another topic.  Appreciatively, Librarian always keeps me in check.
    “Therefore, since we have this ministry because we were shown mercy, we do not give up. 2 Instead, we have renounced secret and shameful things, not acting deceitfully or distorting the word of God, but commending ourselves before God to everyone’s conscience by an open display of the truth. 3 But if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we are not proclaiming ourselves (as the Watchtower does) but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’s sake. 6 For God who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of God’s glory in the face of Jesus Christ.  2 Cor 4:1-6
    I hope you can see that ChristÂ’s light in the heart of a righteous one, is the knowledge of God; and is accurate knowledge to feed sheep appropriately and correctly.
    You said, “It does not take a direct line, but must tack or zig zag back n forth at the angle of the direction of the wind or spirit. This is very well and reasonable if true”
    I suppose Wt. uses these words of Christ:  “The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”  (John 3:8)…this doesn’t mean the Spirit takes a faithful anointed one down any wrong path (which failed doctrines – are), as if to teach them a lesson.    It is the Spirit – “breath” -  of God/Christ working in an individual, leading them in knowledge, and as God wills.  Examples of this spirit wind:
    “He said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man. Say to it: This is what the Lord GOD says: Breath, come from the four winds and breathe into these slain so that they may live! " Ezek 37:9
    “Suddenly a sound like that of a violent rushing wind came from heaven, and it filled the whole house where they were staying. Then they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them”  Acts 2:2,4
    And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”  John 20:22
    God’s Spirit has not filled Watchtower’s sails and led them in a zig zag pattern through the years.  His ways are perfect.  The tacking theory puts the blame on God for men’s false predictions.  There are ample Bible references telling us to keep on the straight path, the only path, which should warn us NOT to fall for Watchtower’s tacking analogy.  Ps 27:11; 2 Pet 2:15; Jer 31:9; Prov 4:26; Isa 26:7; Prov 15:21; Luke 3:5; Heb 12:13; John 1:23; Prov 11:5; Ps 119:128; 107:7
    When I posted my above comment elsewhere, this was the response from two (I believe both were) ex-Witnesses.
    “The problem with the JWs use of Prov.4:18, ‘light getting brighter’, is, it is a misuse. Plucked and distorted from it’s true context. They pluck it from scripture and place it in an illegitimate relationship to excuse previous ‘misunderstandings’ of Bible prophecy, passages. They force fit it in use to self-pardon wrong and false prophetic summations and acclamations. By their application as such, they narrow this passage down to nothing more than a generic excuse scripture, missing its true meaning.—..........—Christ said ‘I am the light of the world’ ‘I am the lamp’. In Leviticus Ch.24 the people themselves were to bring flour and oil for the use in the tabernacle. It personifies a savior, Christ. Christ said ‘I am the bread and light’. Our light gets brighter in our continuing relationship with Christ and our Father. The whole context in Prov. chapter 4 is about relationship and the paths of righteousness vs. the path of wickedness.—..........—JWs have relegated it to something far less, missing it’s deeper meaning and structure. They have pawned it off as nothing more than an excuse passage.”
    "Flour and oil". I was just thinking about that yesterday, when considering the widow who fed Elijah, with, flour and oil. Jesus told us in John ch.4, that the worship that results in life, is done with spirit and truth. The "bread from heaven" is Jesus Christ, the "way, truth, and life". I see the flour, as a symbol for truth.
    The Bible uses golden oil, to symbolize the spirit. Kings and priests were anointed with the holy anointing oil, and since Christ, there is an anointing with spirit. That spirit combines with the truths of God's word, resulting in life. From the spirit and truth given to us, we are expected to prepare an offering to God... the "fruit of our lips" that confesses what we have received. Those who do this, are given more... the real meaning of light, getting brighter.
    Yes maÂ’am, and our very lives are confessions of fruitage in that path of righteousness. The light in our relationship grows brighter and stronger, the love deepens.
    Unless we step away from Watchtower and its “new light” we can’t see the absurdity of the list of “new light” dates; which are only part of changed, as well as faulty doctrines (“faithful and discreet slave”, who are the “great crowd”, the role of the “royal priesthood”, the “good news”, etc. – Yes! )
    I do hope you see this.
  23. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Malum Intellectus in New Light   
    It is very interesting that outsiders see the date list for what is – dead weight like bobbles on a necklace slithering around the walls of the Watchtower.  The GB said, “Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food.”  Wt 17 February pp. 23-28   I am realizing now the twisted truth of this statement.  If by “us” they mean themselves, it is a true statement.  But for those who believe in him, who remain in him, who desire to serve the true God and Christ – he promised it. 
     “ If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
    “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.”      Luke 11:11-13,9,10
    So, what’s with the GB and their necessity to fabricate “new light”?  Have they asked THE FATHER for spiritual “good gifts”?  Have they asked CHRIST?  Or, do they follow another spirit – the “god of this age” who has offered them everything in this world, except for the knowledge from the living Christ?  Luke 4:7; Matt 6:20,21
    Jesus sent his new recruits, his soon-to-be apostles with directions and examples on how to feed his sheep.  Jesus fed thousands with bread and fish, projecting those experiences spiritually.  When the GB and all past Wt. leaders, who claim to represent Christ, uttered just one false doctrine or date as food from Christ – they lied. Deut 18:20-22 Bread and fish sustained the body of those hungry  ones.  When they followed Jesus for more, he said,
     “Truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate the loaves and were filled. 27 Don’t work for the food that perishes – check out the list of dates, JWs!
    but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set his seal of approval on him.”
    The apostles asked -  and all anointed ones should ask,
    28 “What can we do to perform the works of God?” they asked.  (Would Wt’s “new light” fall under the works of God?)
    29 Jesus replied, “This is the work of God—that you believe in the one he has sent.”  John 6:26-29 
    The GB proclaim themselves, and JWs proclaim primarily the GB and the organization  (they are taught this)– HOW can they truly, deeply believe in the light of Christ?
    “I have come in my Father’s name, and yet you don’t accept me. If someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.” John 5:43
    Even though they speak the name, Jesus.  Matt 7:21-23
     
     
  24. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from DespicableME in "The Gift of Revenue"   
  25. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from DespicableME in Does the Governing Body live on-campus or off-campus?   
    My highly intelligent son (150 IQ and not one of those points came from me) read the same book at age 16.  It caused him to question, and reject, the organization; among many other things.
    I get what you’re saying - I’m asking targeted questions, but also assuming what appears obvious to me.  And yes everything we come across we have to verify and then, trust.  The Wt. could be transparent about why they have bought the properties, since 8 million people helped foot the bill, but it is proven that is never the case.  I see this as just another exposed crack in the Watchtower’s white-washed wall. 
    The rubber met the road for me a few years back.  I am purely confident in exposing their spiritual opaqueness. 
    I do hope you come up with something.
     
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