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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Shiwiii in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    The ridiculousness of attaching political people into the question is where you have gone astray. That is the side portion of your question which becomes your gig, your laugh. You see if you were actually serious none of that would have found its way into your agenda. 
    Now to answer you seriously:
    What are the benefits of Coming to Jesus?
    Your sins are forgiven, the moment you accept Jesus into your heart and ask Him to forgive you. Done deal. Matt. 9:2 is a great example. By the man's faith, Jesus forgave him. 
    His burden is light, why? Because He takes that pressure away from you. He give your rest (Matt 11:25-30) There is no fear of losing anything, privileges, friends, family, you don't lose but rather gain. You gain the peace and joy of being a child of God (Romans 8:15-17, 1 John 5:1). There is no obligation  to do anything, except the works of God. What are those works? John 6:29 "... believe in the one who He sent" (Jesus). 
    You will be led by the Holy Spirit. (Luke 12:12) This is much like having a friend guide you through life and warning you about the dangers of your decisions. The Spirit of God dwells within you to direct you. (Romans 8:11)
    Jesus does not try and trap you or trick you, it is a freedom to follow Him. It is also very easy to leave Him if you'd like. He does not threaten you to keep you under submission, He does not announce to others that you have left. He simply continues and He knows who will and who won't follow Him, so there is no surprise. He knows and Romans 8:28 tells us what the plan for those who do is, all things will work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose. 
    We are given eternal life. When is this given? Now. John 6:40. We have the knowledge and comfort in knowing that right now we can know for certain that we have eternal life with Jesus. This is not a maybe "if you do enough" or "if you're nice enough" it is a given. 1 John 5:11&12. 
    Jesus is the mediator between the Father and humans. Jesus came in human form so that we can relate to Him and He can be our mediator. He is our spokesperson when we fail (1 John 2:1&2). The Bible tells us that there is NO other mediator, not a group of men, not a religion, not the Pope nor the octo-popes.  Jesus is our personal mediator. 
    He tells us that He is the only way. (John 14:6, Hebrews 7:25) There is no other way to God, but through Jesus, so one MUST come to Jesus in order to be right with God. He must become the narrow gate in which we must pass (Matt 7:13). 
    I think this is enough to answer your question. While there is much more, I really don't think you are interested in the answer, just a sort of game to see if I would jump through your hoops. Well I did, but it wasn't for just you. 
  2. Like
    Witness reacted to Shiwiii in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    Have you read the Bible? I mean really? The benefits are clearly spelled out for all to see. You should try it sometime, without the forced interpretation the wt gives. 
    I understand what you are doing here and I'm not playing your game Tom. 
  3. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in 607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?   
    It is incredible that scriptures proving that the anointed priesthood are capable of teaching, as well as required to, no matter if they are male or female, is down-voted. Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9
     Chalk one up for the Body of Elders, and reject the Body of Christ.  This is called “trampling” the Temple by spiritual “Gentiles”.  Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:15
    The role of the Levitical priesthood was to minister in the temple. Under Christ, they are the Temple. 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16  They were to teach the people the law of God – today, it is written on their hearts, for a reason; to teach the people God’s laws.  2 Cor 3:3; Heb 8:8-10  They prayed for God’s guidance for all. Heb 13:15; 1 Tim 4:16
    INSTEAD, an elder body has assumed these roles and blunders hopelessly in leading the flock. The world sees it through the many lawsuits.   The organization is a delusion of perceived righteousness. 2 Thess 2:11   Heb 8:8-10 will NOT be fulfilled within the Watchtower, but outside its whitewashed walls that are crumbling through topics such as this one addressing their relentless twisting of dates to uphold 1914.   
    “He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.”  Dan 7:25
    This is the organizational arrangement that is oppressing God’s priesthood, and prophesying “by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.”  -  1914, and all previous failed dates.  2 Thess 2:2
    It is the identical “He” of Rev 13:1, the Beast from the “Gentile” “Sea” of mankind. 
    “It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.”  Rev 13:7
    Who, in the world, is,
    1.        Oppressing the anointed ones
    2.       Changing God’s set times and laws
    ?
    Only the Watchtower organization.  Rev 18:4-8; Heb 8:11,12
    "The Pharisees came and began to question Jesus. To test him, they asked him for a sign from heaven.  He sighed deeply and said, “Why does this generation ask for a sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to it.”   Mark 8:11,12
     
  4. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Arauna in 607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?   
    Firstly, anointed ones can be sealed while on earth. 2 Cor 1:22; 2 Pet 1:19
    Secondly, we have the example of Deborah, a prophetess.  Judges 4:4
    In 1 Cor 14:34, Paul says, women cannot teach, “according to the law”. He eventually drew away from teaching according to the Jewish law, which viewed women as unclean. 
    The examples we have that Jesus abolished this practice is found in Matt 9:20-22 (Eph 2:15,16)
    In Gal 2:21 and 3:1,2 Paul said it is through the hearing of faith, not the works of the law that the Spirit is received. 
    Col 2:20-22 – “If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations; “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines.”
    I can’t see the law which was embellished with Pharisaical doctrine phasing out immediately.  But through Paul’s writings, we see the change.
    Rom 16:1,2 -  “I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church in Cenchreae.  So you should welcome her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints and assist her in whatever matter she may require your help. For indeed she has been a benefactor of many—and of me also.”
    1 Cor 11:4 - "Every man that prays or prophesies having something on his head shames his head;  but every woman that prays or prophesies with her head uncovered shames her head”  
    In 1 Cor 11:2-15, you’ll see that Paul began rationalizing on the need for woman to wear a head covering.  Her hair is a symbol of glory; a symbol of authority.  “For her hair is given to her as a covering. 16 If anyone wants to argue about this, we have no other custom, nor do the churches of God.” 
    A prophet teaches, and it is one of the many gifts within anointed Body.  Rom 12:6-8 
    “The next day we left and came to Caesarea, where we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the Seven, and stayed with him.  This man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.”  Acts 21:8,9
    "I wish all of you spoke in other tongues, but even more that you prophesied. The person who prophesies is greater than the person who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets so that the church may be built up."  1 Cor 14:5
    Gal 3:28  "There is no (literal) Jew or Greek, slave or free, male and female; since you are all one in Christ Jesus."
    This wasn’t written in the future tense, but the present.
     
  5. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority   
    I just found this interesting comment on YT
    Regarding the court fines: I just read something interesting today from the book "Defending and Legally Establishing the Good News" (WTBTS 1950). It says on page 81, last paragraph under "FINES": If, after appealing a criminal court fine related to your JW membership or JW's doctrine, "then instead of paying the fine, discharge it by going to jail, if allowed to do so by law". "If it is his (Jehovah's) will that you go to prison and there give further testimony after failing on appeal, that should be done joyfully. Trust in Jehovah for protection". So which JW will be going to prison over the $4000 daily fine from the court? I think these fines are against the WTBTS, not the elders or congregation. In Los Angeles County, jail time is typically used to pay off court fines at the rate of $38 per day. (each day of $4000 fine would equal 105 days in jail) Maybe they can send the entire Governing Body to prison? Wouldn't that be fun to see. I'm sure they can delay the fines for a few more years, but eventually they will have to pay. If WT pays this fine instead of choosing jail, they would be in violation of their own command.?
    source; 
     
  6. Like
    Witness reacted to Space Merchant in JW's mistaken claim...   
    It is kinda funny how some who use John 1:1 and claim Jesus is God has no idea of the biblical, historical and scriptural context via manuscripts.
    That being said, it is correctly translated to "a god" or "was a god", and such as been stated waaaaaaaay before Jehovah's Witnesses/Bible Students have been established.
    I will not go into detail because when I tend to explain something, I go full on context, and I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses are in the write for correcting the wording in that text.
    Other variations of rendering John 1:1 also exist (simple wiki search):
    You see here most tend to go with "a god" or "was a god", in addition, ancient Greek differs from modern Greek. In ancient times, they rarely use uppercase letters.
     
    NOTE: some translations tend to use Divine or divine, Deity or deity, vice versa. what is 100% true regardless of translation, "The Word was With God". Another thing to add, Jesus can't be God the Father because
    A::: Shema Yisrael, something that Jesus had to do since he was a Jew born in the law and he included this in prayer to God
    and
    B::: When Jesus was a Baby, Zechariah thanked God, even giving God praise in Luke 1:68, 69, he began to speak due to Holy Spirit bestowed upon him for Zechariah spoke to God pretty much about Lord Jesus who was still in the womb of Mary. Jesus is refereed to as the Horn of Salvation, in English, The Savior (Born Powerful Savior).
    Sahidic Coptic to English - In the beginning existed the word and the word existed with the god and a god was the word
    14th century: "In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word" – Wycliffe's Bible (translated from the 4th-century Latin Vulgate)
    1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.
    1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
    1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
    1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
    1864: "the LOGOS was God, This was in the Beginning with God" – A New Emphatic Version (right hand column)
    1864: "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
    1867: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
    1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
    1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
    1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
    1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
    1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.
    1956: "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation[16]
    1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);
    1962, 1979: "'the word was God.' Or, more literally, 'God was the word.'" – The Four Gospels and the Revelation (R. Lattimore, 1979)
    1966, 2001: "...and he was the same as God" – The Good News Bible
    1970, 1989: "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
    1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
    1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
    1993: "The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word. The Word was God, in readiness for God from day one." — The Message, by Eugene H. Peterson.[17]
     
    I speak to defend the scriptures, and that is what I intend to do.
  7. Confused
    Witness got a reaction from AllenSmith in 607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?   
    Firstly, anointed ones can be sealed while on earth. 2 Cor 1:22; 2 Pet 1:19
    Secondly, we have the example of Deborah, a prophetess.  Judges 4:4
    In 1 Cor 14:34, Paul says, women cannot teach, “according to the law”. He eventually drew away from teaching according to the Jewish law, which viewed women as unclean. 
    The examples we have that Jesus abolished this practice is found in Matt 9:20-22 (Eph 2:15,16)
    In Gal 2:21 and 3:1,2 Paul said it is through the hearing of faith, not the works of the law that the Spirit is received. 
    Col 2:20-22 – “If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations; “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines.”
    I can’t see the law which was embellished with Pharisaical doctrine phasing out immediately.  But through Paul’s writings, we see the change.
    Rom 16:1,2 -  “I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church in Cenchreae.  So you should welcome her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints and assist her in whatever matter she may require your help. For indeed she has been a benefactor of many—and of me also.”
    1 Cor 11:4 - "Every man that prays or prophesies having something on his head shames his head;  but every woman that prays or prophesies with her head uncovered shames her head”  
    In 1 Cor 11:2-15, you’ll see that Paul began rationalizing on the need for woman to wear a head covering.  Her hair is a symbol of glory; a symbol of authority.  “For her hair is given to her as a covering. 16 If anyone wants to argue about this, we have no other custom, nor do the churches of God.” 
    A prophet teaches, and it is one of the many gifts within anointed Body.  Rom 12:6-8 
    “The next day we left and came to Caesarea, where we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the Seven, and stayed with him.  This man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.”  Acts 21:8,9
    "I wish all of you spoke in other tongues, but even more that you prophesied. The person who prophesies is greater than the person who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets so that the church may be built up."  1 Cor 14:5
    Gal 3:28  "There is no (literal) Jew or Greek, slave or free, male and female; since you are all one in Christ Jesus."
    This wasn’t written in the future tense, but the present.
     
  8. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Which Came First, the Chicken or the Egg?   
    This age-old question has been the subject of children, science and everyone in between since its written origin in ancient Greek history. Depending on what source you read today, they think they’ve nailed down the answer; and it appears to go either way.
    Here is an easier question:
    What comes first, birth or birth pains? We know this answer, but when it comes to the arrival of God’s Kingdom, the Watchtower does not.
    From the NWT: In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet. “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a BEGINNING OF PANGS OF DISTRESS. “ Matt 24: 4-8
    The Watchtower teaches that God’s Kingdom arrived in 1914 in the heavens. This event is to be interpreted as the beginning of the signs of “pangs of distress”, their choice of translation. Certainly, the world clearly shows distress evident in the wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes.
    The Greek word for Wt.’s use of “pangs of distress” (ōdin) literally means pains related to child birth – labor pains.
    This truth is found in Watchtower’s Greek Interlinear, reading word for word:
    “All but these (things) beginning of pangs of birth”.
    Why isn’t it read this way when translating the scripture on the same page? The Watchtower would be held responsible for explaining how the birth of God’s Kingdom supposedly arrives before birth pains. “The Kingdom is Born in heaven”, according to the “kr”, chapter 2; yet ironically, it appears to be followed by birth pains.
    From “What Does the Bible Teach?” - “Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the BIRTH of God’s Heavenly Kingdom and the BEGINNING of “the last days” (LABOR PAINS!) of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.
    How clever of them to change the “beginning of birth pains” (“pains of distress”) to “the beginning of the last days”!
    Concerning the focusing of our eyes on Satan’s world for signs of the coming Kingdom, it is not Satan’s corrupt world that is in labor, it is the promised New Covenant that gives “birth” to God’s Kingdom. This ‘birthing’ is not complete until the full number of Kingdom heirs are sealed in the heavens; but not before they individually experience spiritual “labor/birth pains”, resulting from Satan’s demand to test each one. John 18:36; 17:16; Rev 12:1-6; Luke 22:31; Mark 13:13; John16: 2; Rev 2:9,10,13,17,7,24,26,28; 6:9,11; 3:5,9,12,21,22 
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/…
    Watchtower 14/1/15 - “Let your Kingdom come”: God’s Kingdom came in 1914 when Jesus was made King in heaven. God’s Kingdom will also come in the future when Jesus destroys the wicked."
    Here is where they have derived their thought:
    “Therefore, you should pray like this:
    Our Father in heaven,
    Your name be honored as holy.
    Your kingdom come.
    Your will be done
    on earth as it is in heaven.
    Give us today our daily bread.
    And forgive us our debts,
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    And do not bring us into temptation,
    but deliver us from the evil one.
    For Yours is the kingdom and the power
    and the glory forever. Amen." Matt 6:9-13
    Their comment has taken scripture out of context. Can the Kingdom of God arrive via two births at two different times? Obviously, God’s Kingdom has NOT come IN ANY FORM, as Satan is still here.
     
  9. Like
    Witness got a reaction from lentaylor71 in "Awake!" asks...   
  10. Like
    Witness reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Which Came First, the Chicken or the Egg?   
    Without getting into the logic and reasoning behind your detailed  explanation of "Which Came first, the Chicken or the Egg?', I would like to state as a side thought that the Chicken came first.
    Chickens actually ... as it takes two to make a viable egg.
  11. Like
    Witness got a reaction from DeeDee in JW's mistaken claim...   
    At the end of God’s promise covenants, a seed is produced.  Jesus was the promised seed of the old covenant and as that seed, fulfilled God’s promise.   He is the promise of life, if we accept him Mark 9:7
    The New Covenant will also produce a ‘seed’. Gal 3:7,14,29;4:28,31,26  This seed is the Bride of Christ/”144,000”, fulfilled; as a result of the “first resurrection” to life.   Gal 4:26; 1 Pet 1:23 Rev 3:21; 20:4-6  She is the promised seed of the New Covenant – a “new creation”, and the promise of life, if we accept her.  Matt 5:14; 10:40; 1 Tim 4:16
    At that point, one more eternal covenant/promise with God begins -  the Kingdom Covenant, for the rest of Abraham’s seed.  At the “second resurrection”, and when the Bride “comes down out of heaven”, the rest of God’s children receive life on earth.  Ps 37:11,29; Dan 2:44; Exod 37:25; Rev 21:2
    Jesus is the savior through his sacrifice, for the “first fruits” - for his wife/Bride/144,000/New Jerusalem/faithful anointed priests and kings.  They become one  Eph 5:23,25-27,30  He is also the savior for God’s spiritual children that come from the bond with his “wife”/New Covenant promise fulfilled.  Rev 22:17   In this way, Jesus is the “Eternal Father”, bringing life to all, through the ransom sacrifice.  John 8:12; 1 John 2:2; Isa 9:6; 1 Cor 15:45 
    I hope this makes sense.  
  12. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?   
    I am learning the depth of these words, Srecko;
    “Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!  Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.  Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
     Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.  Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.”  Phil 4:4-9
    It is how one reaches purity of conscience. 
     
     
  13. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?   
    "resists"
    Among Strong’s definition of uses for “Satan” are included,
    adversary (one who opposes another in purpose or act)
    he incites apostasy from God and to sin
    circumventing men by his wiles
    a Satan-like man
  14. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from DespicableME in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    Did the vast majority of JWs come to the conclusion that 1975 was the date of Armageddon – on their own? 
    How did these people come to the realization of the world ending, unless they were convinced that the leaders in control understood Bible chronology?   Consider global warming; whether you believe it or not, you are relying on the scientific experts to tell you what’s happening with the planet; but in this case it doesn’t affect your relationship with family and friends if you choose one side or the other.
    Surely you see the confusion by individuals reading the various articles and references to the date, as well as hearing live talks -  all coming from “Jehovah’s organization” and his “mouthpiece”.   
    There was a 14% growth in member in 1974.  Why?   I am sure you know why.
    By 1976 the growth rate dropped to 4%. 
    In 1977, it dropped further, -1%
    “Expectation postponed” made their hearts so sick, that many realized the Watchtower was not an organization run by God. 
    How do you dismiss scripture, Eoin?  How do you read God’s word that condemns false prophets and ignore it?  Was there ever an instance that God told the nation of Israel to tolerate it?  Think of the generations of JWs that have put up with false dates and changing doctrine; hanging on because the authority over them so thoroughly convinced them it was “Jehovah’s will”, that they remain faithful to the organization!
     “And the Lord said to me, “The prophets prophesy lies in My name. I have not sent them, commanded them, nor spoken to them; they prophesy to you a false vision, divination, a worthless thing, and the deceit of their heart. 15 Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who prophesy in My name, whom I did not send, and who say, ‘Sword and famine shall not be in this land’—‘By sword and famine those prophets shall be consumed! 16 And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; they will have no one to bury them—them nor their wives, their sons nor their daughters—for I will pour their wickedness on them.’”  Jer 14:14-16
    Isn’t this exactly what the organization teaches, that no sword or famine will come upon the Watchtower?  If we take all of this with a grain of salt, then we are blind to God’s righteous expectations to follow his Word closely.  Ezek 14:21; Rev chapter 6
    It appears you are attempting to defend a sinking ship.  I truly pray you get off before its too late.
     
  15. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Arauna in 607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?   
    Thank you, I can see that; but also it is good to keep in mind that John mentioned in his previous book,
    “Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. By this we know that it is the last hour.  They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.  1 John 2:18,19
    I believe it is possible that those who left were anointed ones, since he speaks to the anointed in the next verse.  1 John 2:20  These are the “false christs” and false prophets that Jesus warned would deceive, and “by their fruits” we would know them.  Matt 24:24; Matt 7:17-19
    Teaching that the 144,000 have strictly a “heavenly hope”, and that Jesus would not return to the earth is a great apostasy. The GB is responsible for fostering this lie.  The true meaning of the “new creation” is lost; that of Christ, as well as the priesthood, walking and teaching among all of God’s children in human form on the earth, as well as serving the Father and Christ in heaven as spirit creatures.    Not only are the anointed deprived of truth about themselves, but so are the entire 8 million, and those who have died over the years.  I remember a friend lamenting that she would miss her anointed husband once in the Kingdom, understanding she would never see him again.  The “heavenly” vs. “earthly” class system have left many with a resentful feeling toward anointed ones; especially those leaving the organization. The anointed, as “firstfruits” inherit the earth and share this inheritance with the rest of mankind –the “Bride’s” spiritual children.  Gal 3:29; Rev 21:2; John 1:51; Zech 8:23; Rom 2:28,28; Luke 10:16; John 13:20
    How the Wt. teaches Jesus’ return is only part of the tangled ball of yarn. This affects the New Covenant teaching as well.  By the anointed in charge choosing not to reveal truth about how Christ will be on earth with his Bride/priesthood, shows they are…“anti-Christ”.
     
  16. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in 607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?   
    Thank you, I can see that; but also it is good to keep in mind that John mentioned in his previous book,
    “Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. By this we know that it is the last hour.  They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.  1 John 2:18,19
    I believe it is possible that those who left were anointed ones, since he speaks to the anointed in the next verse.  1 John 2:20  These are the “false christs” and false prophets that Jesus warned would deceive, and “by their fruits” we would know them.  Matt 24:24; Matt 7:17-19
    Teaching that the 144,000 have strictly a “heavenly hope”, and that Jesus would not return to the earth is a great apostasy. The GB is responsible for fostering this lie.  The true meaning of the “new creation” is lost; that of Christ, as well as the priesthood, walking and teaching among all of God’s children in human form on the earth, as well as serving the Father and Christ in heaven as spirit creatures.    Not only are the anointed deprived of truth about themselves, but so are the entire 8 million, and those who have died over the years.  I remember a friend lamenting that she would miss her anointed husband once in the Kingdom, understanding she would never see him again.  The “heavenly” vs. “earthly” class system have left many with a resentful feeling toward anointed ones; especially those leaving the organization. The anointed, as “firstfruits” inherit the earth and share this inheritance with the rest of mankind –the “Bride’s” spiritual children.  Gal 3:29; Rev 21:2; John 1:51; Zech 8:23; Rom 2:28,28; Luke 10:16; John 13:20
    How the Wt. teaches Jesus’ return is only part of the tangled ball of yarn. This affects the New Covenant teaching as well.  By the anointed in charge choosing not to reveal truth about how Christ will be on earth with his Bride/priesthood, shows they are…“anti-Christ”.
     
  17. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in 607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?   
    I’m not a Muslim, but I do believe Jesus will return in the flesh with his messenger/angels/144,000.
     “Many deceivers have gone out into the world; they do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2 John 1:7 CSB
    (Check Wt’s Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures)
    Could John be referencing the future coming of Christ in the flesh? The “many deceivers” were already well aware of Jesus Christ; thus, they knew he had been ‘in the flesh’ as a man; so possibly this refers to his future coming, or his ascension. At any rate, the Bible usage of “coming” defines it as coming and going.
    “After he had said this, he was taken up as they were watching, and a cloud took him out of their sight.  While he was going, they were gazing into heaven, and suddenly two men in white clothes stood by them.  They said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking up into heaven? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come (same word found in 2 John 1:7)  in the same way that you have seen him going into heaven.”  Acts 1:9-11
    It gives full indication of Christ’s going and his future coming, in the same way – as the apostles saw him appear to them in the flesh after he was resurrected.  John 21:14; Mark 16:12  The apostle John was aware that Jesus said to Nathanael:
     “Do you believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than this.”  Then he said, “Truly I tell you, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”  John 1:50,51
    Is mankind going to peer into heaven and view the angels (“144,000”) ascending and descending on Christ while in heaven?
    Jacob saw a symbolic ladder/stairway in his dream:
    “And he dreamed: A stairway was set on the ground with its top reaching the sky, and God’s angels were going up and down on it.“   Gen 28:12
    Who are these messenger/angels?
    “And they sang a new song:
    You are worthy to take the scroll
    and to open its seals,
    because you were slaughtered,
    and you purchased[a] people[b]
    for God by your blood
    from every tribe and language
    and people and nation.
    You made them a kingdom
    and priests to our God,
    and they will reign on the earth.”  Rev 5:9,10
    “Priests” – “ For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should desire instruction from his mouth, because he is the messenger of the Lord of Armies.”  Mal 2:7
    “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his possession, so that you may proclaim the praises of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.”  1 Pet 2:9
    Can you see that the “144,000” faithful priests to serve God and Christ as the Bride coming down from heaven, will be with Christ both in heaven and on earth? Rev 21:2  Both Christ and the Bride will be ascending into heaven and descending to the “ground” at various times. Rev 22:17,1,2   There is no other way to explain these two scriptures. 
    The “new creation” of both human and spirit, which enables this to occur, was covered in our last conversation on this thread: https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/34048-why-doesnt-the-society-translate-and-provide-the-russian-court-transcripts-for-us/?page=10&tab=comments#comment-72045
     
    The “man of lawlessness” which “sits” in the Temple of God - the replacing of the priesthood with the elder body/ false priesthood - performs the works of Satan “with all power, signs and lying wonders. 2 Thess 2:9  But, if you’ll remember, the true preaching work during the time of the end is to spiritual “Israel”. Matt.10:23; Isa.48:20; Jer.31:11  The scripture is there and can’t be ignored.   How has God accomplished his work in the past?  He has used few individuals to come against the majority – Elijah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Amos, Jonah, etc. – the majority of His people.  1 Kings 19:3,4,9-18; Jer 1:4-10; Isa 6:6-13 As we have seen in the history of God’s people, Holy Spirit in an individual accomplished what was needed to get accomplished, and how it was said.  You seem to doubt the power of God? Is the power of the organization greater than the power of God? Rev 13:4,11-15  Do you doubt the Holy Spirit within an individual that leads them to truth in Christ?  Do you have to “see” great signs, or can you have faith that Jesus will lead each acceptable heart to truth?  
    Rev 11 - Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure the temple of God (the holy priesthood) and the altar, and count those who worship there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. 3 I will grantmy two witnesses authority to prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.”  Rev 11:1-3
    “Two” represents truth.  Christ emboldens his “witnesses” with authority to expose lies. 2 Thess 2:7,8 These anointed ones and others who take up the call with them have been “killed”/disfellowshipped for refuting the GB’s/organization’s false teachings. Rev 11:7-10 Pretty hard to fathom since God has been quiet for a long while. Isa 42:14-25  Since the Temple has been trampled upon by the elder body; since it has been given over to the “Gentiles”/nations, since Revelation’s Beasts are found in the Wt., what’s next?  Matt 24:16; Rev 18:4-8
      We have the internet now, bringing news from around the world in an instant , Arauna.  One person blessed with God’s Spirit, can reach thousands.  Joining that one person, are many more.  Please, don’t forget that Jesus knows his sheep and will lead them to “living water” if they are truly searching for truth. Or have you forgotten this power?    Do you really believe that God is blessing a “preaching work” fraught with dark holes of empty, trashed, doctrine; (Col 2:8) and which rejects Christ’s anointed Body, favoring the “Gentile” elder body over God’s appointment?  Rejecting the anointed in the capacity they have been given, is rejecting Christ; which is a full indication of “anti-Christ”.  Heb 10:29
     “And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.  For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. (Maybe Paul was OCD)  I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.  And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,  that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.”  1 Cor 2:1-5
    Are you talking to me?  The only date I mentioned was 1914. 
    I believe to Anna you said, "world events since 1914 has proven that it is a 'reality'."
    Only in JW world.  You teach that the “birth of the Kingdom” (1914) came before the labor pains.    How do you account for such a phenomenon?
    Jesus replied to them: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many. 
    “As regards the Christian congregation, Jesus Christ is the only one rightly bearing the title “Leader,” because no imperfect human is the leader of true Christians; they follow Christ.” it-2 pp. 228-229
    I totally agree.
    “WHO is your leader?” That is a question often put to Jehovah’s Witnesses. And no wonder! In many religions, one man or one woman acts as leader, or chief. In contrast, we are proud to tell those who inquire that our Leader is not an imperfect human. Rather, we follow the lead of the resurrected Christ, who in turn follows the lead of his Father, Jehovah.—Matt. 23:10”.  Wt 2/17/ pp 18-22
    Truth.  This is the truth that you “preach” at the door, right?  I came from a Catholic background and was convinced that this organization was not anything like the Catholic church, with a pope as head.  How wrong I was.
    “As anointed Christians, the members of that slave “keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes.” (Rev. 14:4) As we follow their direction, (lead) therefore, we follow our Leader, Jesus. Soon, he will lead us to everlasting life. (Rev. 7:14-17) And no human leader can promise that!  es18 pp. 88-97”
    A transition is happening; from only Christ as our Leader, to a human leader promising that by following their direction - their lead -  one is following Christ.
    “But we are acting against Jehovah’s purpose if we do not obey the faithful and discreet slave or if we choose to obey only what we think is important.” ws11 7/15 pp. 17-2
    Following a faithful anointed one’s spiritual direction through scriptures, is one thing; but requiring strict obedience to the person, with consequences for not doing so, is blasphemy;  since Jesus is our only Master and Leader.  Could the GB be called a “false Messiah”?  Indeed!   “For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?” 1 Cor 3:4
    Through Holy Spirit, we can discern what is truth and what is not, and no man can judge us according to another’s faulty doctrine. James 4:12  The Watchtower teaches madness, pure drunkenness, sourced from a Harlot’s cup. Rev 17:1,2  Occasionally, such as the above quotes, they show you both spectrums, then teach the lie.  Are you not still following humans that expect your obedience? 1 Cor 4:6,7 What other anointed one besides the GB has the assumed ability to spiritually “kill” through disfellowshipping for rejection of doctrine?  Rev 11:7; 13:11,14,15
    6 You are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, because these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines[a] and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these events are the beginning of labor pains. Matt 24:4-8
    I have given you proof through scriptures, which I wonder if you have even attempted to read.  You give me your rebuttal in words only.
     “And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,  that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.” 1 Cor 2:4,5
    “ For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.” 1 Cor 4:20
    “These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.”  1 Cor 2:13
    "So he answered me, "This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:  'Not by strength or my might, but by my Spirit,' says the Lord of Armies"  Zech 4:6
    Since the GB is not inspired, the organization relies on men's strength and might, not on Spirit - at least not God's Spirit.  Rev 16:13-16
      The “Great Crowd” has its’ own topic under Bible Discussion. 
    “For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.  But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
    This includes the GB whom you call "the slave" (as if Christ has only 7 "slaves")  and whom you feel cannot be challenged.
    Do you realize you believe that the Watchtower exists in a “bubble” in Satan’s world, with full access to his “tool box”? And that you look for the signs of coming Kingdom of God to be fulfilled through Satan’s world?  Job 14:4; John 18:36; Matt 12:39
     
     
     
  18. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Noble Berean in Is it time for this forum to close its doors?   
    “you wanna go out there…it’s at your spiritual risk”.  Sounds like fear-mongering. 
    What spiritual risk.  Being disfellowshipped for uncovering a lie, or two or three…and not keeping quiet about it.   
    “If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”   Albert Einstein
     
  19. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Is it time for this forum to close its doors?   
    “you wanna go out there…it’s at your spiritual risk”.  Sounds like fear-mongering. 
    What spiritual risk.  Being disfellowshipped for uncovering a lie, or two or three…and not keeping quiet about it.   
    “If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”   Albert Einstein
     
  20. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Ann O'Maly in Is it time for this forum to close its doors?   
    “you wanna go out there…it’s at your spiritual risk”.  Sounds like fear-mongering. 
    What spiritual risk.  Being disfellowshipped for uncovering a lie, or two or three…and not keeping quiet about it.   
    “If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”   Albert Einstein
     
  21. Like
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Is it time for this forum to close its doors?   
    "Stick with what we have authorized. You'll be safe." The article just underlines AMIII's admonishment and warning that 'unauthorized' internet activity exposes JWs to "spiritual danger."
    Is this forum and those like it GB authorized and approved? Of course not. 
    And remember the Question Box from the km 9/07?
    "Stick with what we have authorized."
    There will always be those who love to research and openly discuss their views online, and thereby have to rationalize away the GB's clear counsel. I say GOOD! because this new article is another attempt at information control.
     
  22. Like
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Is it time for this forum to close its doors?   
    Thanks for all your comments.  
    Yes, I doctored the image. It was partly fun, partly to make a point.
    However, you all immediately noticed something was 'off' and you could compare with the original on the jw. org site. And yet, there is no guarantee that the spiritual food on the jw. org website hasn't been altered either. 
    Consider this:
    A critic of JWs may allege that there was an Awake! article on the topic of Creation and Evolution that misused a respected scientist's quote. 
    A JW may retort that the magazines NEVER misuse quotations because the writers research very carefully and honestly - there was even a recent Broadcast showing us this was so. The critic must be LYING!
    So the critic produces this scan with the relevant part marked in red:
    :
    But there is no sign of this particular quote on jw. org nor in the downloadable digital versions. Other than the red marking, has the image otherwise been doctored? Is this critic trying to pull a fast one?
    It turns out that the scientist complained to the Org about the magazine's use of his quote and the Org removed the quote from the website's article and the digital download editions. The quote will still be found in the original hard copies and downloaded editions saved to people's computers.
    The critic was telling the truth and, apart from the red marking, the scan was a true representation of the original page.
    You see, just because the publications are reproduced on other sites, it doesn't mean that the content has been tampered with. Equally, just because a publication appears on the jw. org website, there is no guarantee that the content has not been tampered with - whether it is due to a scientist's complaint about how his work was used, or due to new understandings in doctrine. Website content is so easy to edit now.
    @Anna  made the point about it not violating copyright to post links to the jw. org site. True. The article says:
    But the receiver of the email-attached copy isn't getting it direct from the official website. S/he's getting it from a secondary source and we're back to this.
    Which raises a question: If one plays safe and emails a link to the Org's publications page instead, would the 'link share' count as a placement on the report slip?
    @Witness said about there still being Facebook pages for Lett and Morris. I guess we are to understand these are fraudulent.
    And finally, the reasons for the thread title:
    This is the GB's 'loving counsel' folks. Discussion of JW publications on these forums is dangerous, inappropriate, and some JW 'brothers' who have participated have made Jehovah the Org look bad. 
    So, time to pack up, shut up shop and go home .... *sniff*
    ?
    .... Bwahahaha! 
    Are you kidding? It's much too late to stuff the genie of free online discussion back into its bottle! 
    To quote Leah Remini:
     
  23. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from g@gmail.com in Is it time for this forum to close its doors?   
    "However, no member of the Governing Body maintains a personal Web page or a presence on any social media site."
    Facebook pages are still up for Stephen Lett and Anthony Morris
  24. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in 607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?   
    Good, full transparency is important.  I will give you my real name, if you like.
    I erased my answer I was working on, since it is obvious you are sold on “organization” as salvation and believe I “hate” God’s Nation, of which I am part of it.  That is an incredible thought – to hate my own fellow servant. (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22)  Rom 12:9-21
     I have caused you quite a bit of distress, a sign that we are facing the “great tribulation”; when lies and truth are both revealed.  I am here because the “good news” involves the redemption of “Jacob”/spiritual “Israel”. Jer 31:10,11; Isa 27:6;48:20,21;49:5  
     “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another.
    Any anointed one as well as all who leave the organization to follow Christ experience the above. They leave 1914 behind, false prophesies, idolatry, and “false christs”.  Jesus continued,
    “Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”  Matt 10:21-23
    The Son of Man is soon to come, and the “towns of Israel” are the target of the “preaching work”.  (“Spiritual Israel” is defined in the Insight book). 
    Take a look at 2 Thess 2:2
     “not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.”
    This letter/teaching/prophesy was made by anointed ones  - “as if from us”.   I’m sure you agree that the GB are anointed ones; all the major leaders of the Wt. were anointed ones.  1914 has carried on relentlessly since it gave birth in Russel’s calculations using pyramidology.  It is proclaimed as God’s Kingdom ruling “in the heavens”/ Christ’s Kingdom established.
    In verses 3,4 – the man of lawlessness is found in God’s Temple.  Can you tell me where God’s Temple is?  1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22
    Verse 8  How is the “lawless one” revealed?  Rev 11:1-3 (John 20:22); Mal 3:1; Matt 10:40,20; Luke 21:15; Rev 22:16,6
    Verse 9:  What does Satan use to “serve the lie”?  Rev 13:1,2,5-8;16:13-16; 20:7-9
    Verse 10:  What “truth” is it that people refuse to love, which causes them to perish?  John 14:6;17:17;14:17; Heb 4:12
    Verse 11:  What is the delusion?  Rev 13:1,2,5-8;16:13-16; 20:7-9; 13:11-17
    Verse 12:   “and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”
    This wickedness is found where the Temple of God resides; where the “man of lawlessness” is found.  When we can identify the “man of lawlessness”, the “abomination standing in the holy place” (Matt 24:15)……when the anointed ones can discern the “lawless one” standing over them (the elder body)…… the scriptures tell us Christ is near; “even at the door”  Rev 3:20; Luke 12:37  If we open this door, he gives us assurance that he will “feed” us with spiritual abundance.
    Rev 2:7; Isa 29:18; Ref 22:10,14; Eph 5:14; John 6:27,33,40,57; 14:21; 2 Pet 1:19; Matt 25:10
    This is why I’m here – to tell you these things.  Rev 18:4-8
     
     
     
     
  25. Haha
    Witness reacted to Evacuated in I hope the disfellowshipped ones do not attend the Memorial   
    Nor did he say "Why didn't you phone first and let me know you were coming back? Now I have to take a day off to get some food in. Hopefully the supermarkets will have enough stock, else I can order on line for nextday delivery. And I don't know if the neighbours can come round. I'll just email them all anyway. Hop in, I'll give you a lift to the house!"
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