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Witness
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Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in I hope the disfellowshipped ones do not attend the Memorial
Dear Fisher,
Bible report give no evidence that Father have doubt in his motives or sincerity. And report said that Father response to son's words was this:
22“But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.
No congregation declaration of dfd or announcement of his came back to congregation. No calling for elders to establish judicial committee to prove his changed behaviour and regrets. Nothing more than he solely said, claim on the road far from home. And no witnesses of their conversation. Just between him and Father.
Father in fact not give any attention to past life of his son. No interest to hear and know - What he was done or why or how while out of home. Nothing, like it never happened. But in JW congregation dfd person must show so much proves that he "deserve" to come back. Bureaucracy!
Father run to him!! Father run to him as soon he saw him, not waiting for him to come in shame and sorrow.
Yes Fisher, we are from different planet for sure :)))))
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Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in I hope the disfellowshipped ones do not attend the Memorial
This interesting comment indicates that the person who is doing the shunning also feels uncomfortable doing it. Many of us know how psychologically damaging it is for the 'shunnee,' but I think we forget how damaging it also is for the 'shunner.'
"If you think giving someone the cold shoulder inflicts pain only on them, beware. A new study shows that individuals who deliberately shun another person are equally distressed by the experience." - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305080452.htm
This presupposes that the elders who chose to disfellowship saw into the sinner's heart perfectly and made a perfect decision. It also presupposes that a disfellowshipped person can never be redeemed. Somehow I don't think you really believe that.
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Witness got a reaction from Matthew9969 in "Cult Mentality"
Dr. Michael Langone, has done considerable research in the field of mind-manipulating movements. He's identified some key traits that cultish movements reveal themselves. Steve Hassan, a former cult member and one of the leading experts of cults has also contributed a lot to the field. Both of these men have helped in identifying the tell-tale signs of cult mentality.
     What they say:
"Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.” The leader is a strong-willed, domineering character who rules the group with tight control. He lets it be known in subtle ways that he is in charge of the movement. He makes the plans, he orchestrates the movements of the group or groups (sometimes he exercises his sway over several groups). He dispatches the workers, assigns their chores, etc." "“Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question the leader. Younger people are particularly vulnerable to the leader’s gift of gab, and his feigned expertise. No matter how radical the leader becomes in his decisions or actions, the cult members will not criticize him. Even if there should be mild disagreement, no specific expressions are voiced. The members reason that though he may be mistaken in some of his judgments, yet the overall good he accomplishes outweighs any minor flaws.
Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”" "The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.
The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality." "The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock." "The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition. Within the context of the church, for instance, he would have an “anti-elder” attitude. Elders would be recipients of constant critical remarks. No cult leader would affiliate himself with a congregation having elders to whom he must be in submission. Control could not be maintained in such an environment.
The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters." "Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader."     From the "Psychology of Cults" Â
Rev 13:1,5-18
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Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in "Cult Mentality"
Dr. Michael Langone, has done considerable research in the field of mind-manipulating movements. He's identified some key traits that cultish movements reveal themselves. Steve Hassan, a former cult member and one of the leading experts of cults has also contributed a lot to the field. Both of these men have helped in identifying the tell-tale signs of cult mentality.
     What they say:
"Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.” The leader is a strong-willed, domineering character who rules the group with tight control. He lets it be known in subtle ways that he is in charge of the movement. He makes the plans, he orchestrates the movements of the group or groups (sometimes he exercises his sway over several groups). He dispatches the workers, assigns their chores, etc." "“Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question the leader. Younger people are particularly vulnerable to the leader’s gift of gab, and his feigned expertise. No matter how radical the leader becomes in his decisions or actions, the cult members will not criticize him. Even if there should be mild disagreement, no specific expressions are voiced. The members reason that though he may be mistaken in some of his judgments, yet the overall good he accomplishes outweighs any minor flaws.
Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”" "The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.
The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality." "The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock." "The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition. Within the context of the church, for instance, he would have an “anti-elder” attitude. Elders would be recipients of constant critical remarks. No cult leader would affiliate himself with a congregation having elders to whom he must be in submission. Control could not be maintained in such an environment.
The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters." "Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader."     From the "Psychology of Cults" Â
Rev 13:1,5-18
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Witness got a reaction from Malum Intellectus in 607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?
This is the crux of the problem – that of holding onto a date, and comparing “new light” surrounding that date that must not lose its ‘significance’ - to manna - good for only a “day”; as if since Christ, that is the viewpoint to be held.
“What can we do to perform the works of God?” they asked.
Jesus replied, “This is the work of God—that you believe in the one he has sent.”
“What sign, then, are you going to do so we may see and believe you?” they asked. “What are you going to perform? John 6:28-30
I see David Splane working through the “overlapping generation” doctrine, using a pointer and chart.
“Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, just as it is written: He gave them bread from heaven to eat.”
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, Moses didn’t give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
Then they said, “Sir, give us this bread always.”
“I am the bread of life,” Jesus told them. “No one who comes to me will ever be hungry, and no one who believes in me will ever be thirsty again. But as I told you, you’ve seen me, and yet you do not believe.” John 6:31-36
The Watchtower is always chasing “new light”, since they desire a “sign” to follow. So, they made one up, that requires “feeding”.
“Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come.
1914
Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessnessis revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sitsin God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God. 2 Thess 2:1-4
The elder body “representing” the anointed priesthood – the Temple of God. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22 “Exalts”? Yes. God’s priesthood must obey the elder body, or they are ousted. John 16:2
JWs are like those who chased after Jesus once he fed them with literal, perishable, bread.
“When the crowd saw that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they got into the boats and went to Capernaum looking for Jesus. When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
Jesus answered, “Truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate the loaves and were filled. Don’t work for the food that perishes but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set his seal of approval on him.” John 6:24-27
He is speaking of perfect spiritual food, not seen with the eye but discerned as holding the promise of life. The GB cannot obtain this food, to share with JWs. They are not connected to the source, but they make JWs “work” for it, nonetheless.
“May we be diligent in partaking of all the spiritual food we receive through Jehovah’s organization.” Wt 13/4/13
"Jesus promised that he would sustain them with nourishing spiritual food.” Wt. 04/3/1
For the believers in Christ; yes, he did. But not through men who continually concoct perishable “new light”.
“The timely spiritual food we receive is proof that Jesus, the Head of the congregation, is keeping his promise to feed us.” Wt 13/7/15
No, it is not proof; since “new light” rots. Matt 7:18; 12:33
“Consider what makes it possible for the faithful and discreet slave to provide timely, nutritious spiritual food. “I shall make you have insight and instruct you in the way you should go,” says Jehovah. He adds: “I will give advice with my eye upon you.” (Ps. 32:8) Yes, Jehovah provides direction to the slave. We can therefore have full confidence in the Scriptural insight, understanding, and guidance that we receive from the slave.” Wt 09/2/15
They always throw in that word, “timely”, to cover the need to make “timely” changes. It appears God’s insight and instruction must be short-lived; as if changes at a whim. 1 Sam 15:29
Once a light bulb goes out, darkness creeps in enough to shake one’s confidence in where they are stepping, until the bulb is replaced with a new one. Jesus’ “light” never dims and never goes out. “I am the light of the world. Anyone who follows me will never walk in the darkness but will have the light of life.” John 8:12
“Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food.:” W 17/2
He did promise his slaves who are faithful, perfect spiritual food, that would last; but not to a “wicked slave”. Matt 24:48-51 They are blaming Christ in their excuse; yet change “faithful slave” to “wicked slave” and it becomes a true statement.
Deception in its ‘true’ form.
“Remain in me, and I in you. Just as a branch is unable to produce fruit by itself unless it remains on the vine, neither can you unless you remain in me. “ John 15:4
“The ax is already at the root of the trees. Therefore, every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit (that lasts) will be cut down and thrown into the fire.” Matt 3:10
Gal 1:6-9
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Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?
Good assessment. Interestingly, the Bible takes a different view:
"To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted." Titus 1:15
Those with a "seared"/corrupted conscience dictate the conscience of another.
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." 1 Tim 4:1,2
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Witness reacted to Anna in 607 B.C.E. - Is it Biblically Supported?
But today becomes tomorrow and one day we may be calling this the the manna of old. So really, what you are saying is that what we have now is good enough for the present time, but it could be replaced by something else in the future. In that case, it would be more truthful to call this spiritual food speculations, ideas and conjecture rather than facts and truths.
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Witness reacted to Jack Ryan in Letter to Hitler & Declaration of Facts
Watchtower criticises other religious groups for colluding with Hitler, whilst Jehovah's Witnesses were imprisoned for their refusal to compromise their standards. What is not admitted is that Rutherford initially praised Hitler for his stance against Jews and the Anglo/American empire.
One of the groups that Hitler sent to concentration camps were Jehovah's Witnesses. They were forced to endure unspeakable atrocities and many lost their lives. The individual actions of many Witnesses are commendable and the Watchtower holds up this part of their history in great esteem. What is not discussed is the hypocritical actions of Rutherford in the lead up to these events.
Early in 1933, the Watchtower office in Berlin was closed and Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in many German states. This was due to the refusal of Jehovah's Witnesses to swear loyalty to the government or to serve in its armed forces.
In an attempt to appease Hitler into lifting the ban, Rutherford instigated a Declaration of Facts and sent a Letter to Hitler discussing the Watchtower's support of the Nazi regime.
Current Watchtower references provide a deceptive portrayal of these documents, through selective quoting. The Proclaimer's book mentions that Rutherford wrote a letter to Hitler under the context of "facing Nazi oppression", in which the Watchtower Society is made to sound as if they were firmly against the Nazi regime.
It is quite surprising to find the opposite is true, which can be identified when reading the content of Rutherford's 1933 letter to Hitler and the Declaration of Facts.
Letter to Hitler
Russell, founder of the Watchtower, was a Zionist and sympathetic to Jews as part of modern day fulfilment of Bible prophecy. Rutherford initially continued such support, but changed by the 1930's to a bigoted, anti-Semitic stance.
During the time of Rutherford, Witnesses became known as a religion of hate, due to the Watchtower's tirade of insults against other Churches and governments. The Catholic Church come under the greatest condemnation and bought this to the attention of the Nazi government, petitioning against the Watchtower Society. In 1933, the Nazi government banned the Watchtower's German operations.
In an effort to overturn the ban, Rutherford sent a Letter and a Declaration to Hitler, in which he praises Hitler for his anti-Anglo/American campaign and his stance against the Jews.
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A copy of the letter in German.
Following is part of an English translation of the Letter to Hitler.
The letter mentions Hitler's "just principles," quoting from section 24 of Das Program der NSDAP (The Nazi's Platform of the National Socialist German Workers Party).
Rutherford further compromised Watchtower principles but offering that, "We want to continue to live up to the prohibition imposed upon us," that is, they would stop preaching in Germany, provided the ban was lifted that would allow them to "meet for prayer and church service".
Click Letter to Hitler  for a translation of the full letter in PDF format.
The Yearbook 1974 briefly refers to this letter, along with the Declaration of Facts.
In light of the contents of the official letter and Declaration sent to Hitler, the Watchtower's 2011 comment mocking other Churches is nothing short of hypocritical.
Declaration of Facts
Rutherford and Knorr organized a public convention in Berlin on 25th June, 1933 to release a "Declaration of Facts," being pronouncing at the German convention, and distributed in letter format. This outlined Watchtower's support of the German governments stance against Jews.
The convention hall was decked with swastikas and the program was opened with Song 64, a song from the Bible Student's songbook that had the some melody by Hayden as the German national anthem. Konrad Franke, Germany's Bethel branch overseer later stated his disturbance at seeing the scene for the convention and Rutherford's declaration.
The Declaration of Facts was reprinted in the Yearbook 1934. It went on in part to state:
Click here  for an English translation of the full Declaration of Facts in PDF format.
Rutherford's Letter and Declaration were an effort to appease Hitler, but to no avail - too little, too late.
With Rutherford's efforts at appeasing Hitler into lifting the Watchtower ban not achieving its aims, Rutherford instead started to antagonise Hitler through his publications.
These cablegrams read:
Rutherford send another letter to Hitler, this time threatening Hitler with the punishment of God if the ban on Jehovah's Witnesses was not lifted.
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Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?
Shiwiii, You have 181 views until now. That is good. People pay little attention... in some way.
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Witness reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?
This is just ONE of MANY instances in the past few years where the Society's lawyers constantly, consistantly, and without conscience, pervert Justice.
Wednesday night we dropped a small check in the contribution box at the Kingdom Hall ... and felt guilty that part of that money would be used to deliberately, and with premeditation ... to pervert Justice.
Normally, lawyers have a fiduciary responsibility to win at any cost ... and the Society's lawyers are no different. What gives them special "power" is that they are now redefining our core theology based on economic considerations.
This has already happened, as due to many lawsuits, we are now "allowed" to take into our veins up to 99% of all blood products ... if they put it in separately.
The REASON it is now a matter of conscience ... is that the Governing Body does NOT want to lose all that money.
This has all been brought out here on the Archive over, and over, and over ... so I will not beat a dead horse into mush.
Jehovah's Witnesses are rightfully becoming known in the community of men as extremists ... perverting Justice in many ways ... and this reflects on the reputation of the God whose name is Jehovah.
BADLY!
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Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?
Further in Romans 13 -
"Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. " Rom 13:2-5
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Witness got a reaction from Cos in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?
Very succinctly put; "both laws - divine and human"
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:17-20
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Witness got a reaction from Cos in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?
Further in Romans 13 -
"Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. " Rom 13:2-5
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Witness got a reaction from Space Merchant in Babylon Will Rise Again
I am no more a boutique thief than you are, Tom; but surely you know, where there are hidden pedophiles, there are also hidden thieves; and I am not speaking of the visitors at the conventions. 1 John 5:19 Yet, there are various types of thievery. God’s laws were written on both sides of the tablets of ten commandments. Exod 32:15 The flying scroll, was written on both sides, signifying that the nation of Israel was breaking more laws that just thieving and lying.
“This message from the Lord came to Zechariah again: “This is what the Lord of the Heavenly Armies says: ‘Administer true justice, and show gracious love and mercy toward each other. You are not to wrong the widow, orphans, the foreigner, or the poor, and you are not to plan evil against each other. Zech 7:8-10
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You pay a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, and yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These things should have been done without neglecting the others.” Matt 23:23
Hidden Pedophiles Isa 1:17
Lawsuits and resistance to follow court orders Rom 13:2-5
Expectations of full obedience without question Acts 5:29
Disfellowshipping - on the grounds of rejecting man’s doctrines, an organization/idol, and for speaking up in the name of Jesus. All of these result from The GB’s “leaven”, corrupting the Word of God. Matt 16:11,12 An “evil slave” uses its muscle to squelch the anointed ones. Matt 24;48-51 I wish so much, that you and every JW cared to see this.
“But they refused to pay attention, turned their backs, and stopped listening. They made their hearts hard like a diamond, to keep from obeying the Law and the messages that the Lord of the Heavenly Armies sent by his Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, just as when I cried out and they would not listen, so also they will cry out, and I will not listen,’ says the Lord of the Heavenly Armies. ‘I will scatter them to all of the nations, which they have not known.’” Zech 7:11-13
Haggai, who was prophesying at the same time as Zechariah, addressed the rebuilding of the temple as did Zechariah, and can mirror the situation with God’s priesthood/Temple today. (1 Cor 3:16,17) It lies in ruins. They are not used, but kept quiet by the elders and the GB. They are admonished not to gather together. HOW can ANYONE make regulations such as these, against God’s appointed priests, unless they foster evil and autocratic intentions within their heart? Prov 6:12-15
Do you really think a pawn of Satan would appear evil? 2 Cor 4:4; 11:14,15; Rev 13:1,2,5-8,11,12,14,15
Malachi declared that the priests of his day were guilty of “thieving”:
“Ever since the time of your ancestors, you have turned away from my decrees and haven’t kept them. Return to me and I’ll return to you,” says the Lord of the Heavenly Armies. “But you ask, ‘How will we return?’ “Will a person rob God? Yet you are robbing me! But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’ “By the tithe and the offering.
You are cursed under the curse—the entire nation—because you are robbing me! Mal 3:7-9
You’ve seen me say this, the anointed priesthood has been usurped by
“Gentiles” – the elder body - causing the “daily sacrifices”/tithes and offerings of the priests to be nonexistent. Matt 24;14; Rev 11:1,2 This desecration, abomination standing in the Temple, is robbing God. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 13:15 ) Anointed ones give praise regulated by the GB/unfit Steward; and it is to “Jehovah and his organization”. It is an undeniable fact that the Governing Body relies on “Helpers” and a writing department, to produce Wt’s unhealthy “spiritual food”, instead of those appointed by Christ. Amos 8:11; Matt 24:7
The GB, the elder body, even the anointed priests who allow their backs to be bent under such regulations are all guilty of robbing God. Not only are JWs who condone this, “thieves” by allowing sacrifices of praise to be given to an idol, but they are the victims of thieves who bury the spiritual gifts given to each anointed one, for the building up of the anointed Body of Christ, and for the distribution of spiritual food. Luke 16:3; 10-13; 1 Cor 12:4-7
God’s “House” is taught to be almost every earthly building owned by the Watchtower, which is a great lie. His only “House” is the Temple built upon the Body of Christ. Eph 2:20-22 Yet, this “house” robs God of the “daily sacrifice”, of worship due only to Him and not to be shared with an earthly organization. Isa 40:25 They “buy and sell” spiritual commerce strictly approved through the Harlot/GB. John 2:14-17; Rev 13:14-17
“The Lord of Armies says this: These people say: The time has not come for the house of the Lord to be rebuilt.” The word of the Lord came through the prophet Haggai: 4 “Is it a time for you yourselves to live in your paneled houses, while this house (the Temple) lies in ruins?” Haggai 1:4
How many Wt. lies and acts of theft would you like me to whittle away at? While JWs believe that the organization is a “spiritual paradise” it is the “ephah” where God’s curse lies. It was set on its “base” close to a hundred years ago. “Base” carries the meaning, “pedestal” and can imply idolatry. The false prophet “gives breath” (spirit-directed) to the Beast in Revelation, which expects dedication and acknowledgement of reverence. Rev 13:15 ‘Who is like the Beast?’ (a spiritual paradise/”Jehovah’s organization”/”the truth”) ‘Who can wage war with it?’ Rev 13:3,4 This Wild Beast that has been put on a pedestal is the composite “man of lawlessness” (incorporated elder body) which has overrun the Temple/priesthood. 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; Rev 13:18
Can an organization receive the breath of God’s spirit (spirit-directed) when its leaders admit they are not inspired by God? (1 Cor 2:12) How would Christ “promise” ANY food if not through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit within the anointed one? John 14:26 Or does this “spirit-directed” organization just exude knowledge and truth through its walls?
The “restoration” of the Temple is occurring, by each anointed “living stone” who listens to Christ’s call to buy “refined gold” and leave the woman covenant/promise of death. Rev 18:4-8; Rev 3:17-21; Dan 8:11-14
Do a search on the Wt. website for Matt 17:11 and see what you find. The GB teaches nothing about the reason “Elijah” comes, and who arrives in the form of the symbolic “two witnesses”/anointed ones of Revelation - “killed” by the Beast/organization. Rev 13:15; 11:3-5,7,8 They have lost everything to follow Christ and submit to refinement and purging of Wt’s sins. Matt 16:24 By responding to this cleansing, these “living stones” of the Temple are “restored”. Matt 17:1-3; Zech 4:11-14; 6-10; Dan 9:24 And they are the ones Christ uses through the “breath of his mouth” to expose the deep, spiritual sins hidden within Watchtower’s walls. Luke 8:17,18
“But who will survive the day when he comes? Or who can stand when he appears? Because he’s like a refiner’s fire and a launderer’s soap, 3 he will sit refining and purifying silver, purifying the descendants of Levi, refining them like gold and silver. Then they’ll bring a righteous offering to the Lord. Then the offering to the Lord by Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable as it was in the past, even as in former years. Mal 3:2-4
The GB is not naïve. They have entered this covenant of death by buying into Satan’s offer of riches and prominence. You label me as a “self-appointed expert”, indicating I have no authority to challenge their prominence. 1 Cor 4:8 Christ presents each anointed one with the obligation to uphold his truth and he expects each one to listen to his direction; even more so, if the appointed ‘house steward’ fails to serve “proper food at the proper time”. 1 Cor 4:1,2; 1 Pet 4:10; No, the GB is the ringleader of a band of thieves.
Why are you not asking, what authority do they have to judge their fellow servants? Because they have absolutely none, only self-appointed superiority. Luke 22:24-27; Rom 14:4; Isa 65:5; 66:5; John 16:2; Mark 13:9
How many acts of theft and lies would you like me to list coming from the “spiritual paradise”? I have yet to touch on the false prophetic lies that have lead God’s people astray. 2 Thess 2:1-12; Micah 3:5-7
Then he said to me, “This is the curse that goes out over the face of the whole land. For everyone who steals shall be cleaned out according to what is on one side, and everyone who swears falsely shall be cleaned out according to what is on the other side. Zech 5:3
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Witness got a reaction from Nana Fofana in Babylon Will Rise Again
I truly didn’t know there was a Watchtower on this subject.
The article states: “Usually, only one side of a scroll was used, so this scroll clearly contains a weighty and serious message.”
Is literal “stealing” from a clothing boutique weighty enough for such a vision?
“Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who steal My words every one from his neighbor. 1 Behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who use their tongues and say, ‘He says.’ 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the Lord, “and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the Lord. Jer 23:30-32
The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food. W/17/2
From the article:
However, the vision also reminded the Jews of their responsibility to maintain the purity of their worship. Wickedness cannot and will not be allowed to creep into and dwell among Jehovah’s people. After we have been brought into the protective and loving care of God’s clean organization, we have the responsibility to help maintain it. Are we moved to keep our “house” clean? Wickedness in any form does not belong in our spiritual paradise.
I do hope you can see the whitewash.
Russian Ban 2 Chron 16:7-9
Hidden Pedophiles Isa 1:17
Lawsuits Rom 13:2-5
Expectations of full obedience without question Acts 5:29
Disfellowshipping anointed and all who cannot accept the reckless lies, and “killed” for turning to Christ. John 16:2; Rev 13:15; Rom 14:4; 1 John 2:3-6
This is what the Lord Almighty says:
“Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
they fill you with false hopes.
They speak visions from their own minds,
not from the mouth of the Lord.
17 They keep saying to those who despise me,
‘The Lord says: You will have peace.’
And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts
they say, ‘No harm will come to you.’
18 But which of them has stood in the council of the Lord
to see or to hear his word?
Who has listened and heard his word?
See, the storm of the Lord
will burst out in wrath,
a whirlwind swirling down
on the heads of the wicked.
20 The anger of the Lord will not turn back
until he fully accomplishes
the purposes of his heart.
In days to come
you will understand it clearly.
21 I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds. Jer 23:16-22
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Witness reacted to Matthew9969 in Why can't ex-Jehovah's Witnesses just move on and not bash the organisation they left?
When you see a building burning, you warn others to stay away from it, that is not bashing. But some ex jw's do act like jerks and say and do stuff that is not Christian.
When you see someone sitting in a pit of vipers, welcoming others to join them, you try to convince them all it's not a good idea to be hanging out in a pit of vipers.
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Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?
Very succinctly put; "both laws - divine and human"
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:17-20
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Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?
Very succinctly put; "both laws - divine and human"
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:17-20
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Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?
Many of JW members who read the topics in this forum can not accept the fact that the main church body aka Gb violates both laws - divine and human.
GB asks of every member to report any fact and person that violates the JW Code in the assembly. But the GB does not want to report and give facts, evidence, documents, statements that would allow a justice, even "imperfect, worldly" justice. hehe
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Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, anyone care to discuss?
Further in Romans 13 -
"Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. " Rom 13:2-5
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Witness reacted to Noble Berean in Spiritual Hierarchy Within The Jehovah's Witnesses
I don't think we are in disagreement that the murmuring and revolting of the Hebrews was ridiculous. But you seem to indicate in your post that the murmuring could have been the result of God's wonders being questioned as valid. That's preposterous. The Hebrews had unquestionable, miraculous evidence that supported Moses' divine backing. To compare their murmuring to questioning today is a stretch, because it's not nearly as black-and-white.
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Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses
How does it usually begin? With calculations. Before you know it, a date emerges. Read between the lines in the December 15, 2003 Watchtower, pp. 14-19. Of course, the understanding of “this generation” has changed since then; so, stay tuned. Or not. I would rather you not. "Leave them alone! They are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both will fall into a pit.” Matt 15:14
They can’t help themselves, since their focus is on the earthly, contrary to all of Christ’s warnings. They have concerned themselves with the “times and the seasons” since the beginning, all the while promising peace and security within “Jehovah’s organization”.
“But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.” 1 Thess 5:1-3
He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret (Bible calculations) the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away. Matt 16:2-4
2 Thess 2:9,10; Rev 13:13,14
“But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God's Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.”
“Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.”
“For who knows a person's thoughts except his spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.”
1 Cor 2:14,12,13,11
Surely, it is clear that human wisdom, the spirit of the world, was used to calculate 1975 and all previous failed dates. One date, 1914, requires human wisdom to keep the date alive; thus, the “overlapping generation” was invented. When an anointed one is guided by God’s Holy Spirit, human wisdom does not come into play. That is Satan’s field. James 3:13-16; 2 Cor 11:4
“Isaiah’s prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says:
You will listen and listen,
but never understand;
you will look and look,
but never perceive.
For this people’s heart has grown callous;
their ears are hard of hearing,
and they have shut their eyes;
otherwise they might see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears, and
understand with their hearts,
and turn back—
and I would heal them. Matt 13:14,15
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Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Who is real Owner of WT publications intellectual content and all published words?
Here are at least two things.
WT wants that theirs literature to be expand at maximum, in all places, to all people. So if I receive WT magazine from JW member, or find a magazine on the road, or on JW library, I read it and give it to my neighbor to read the same magazine... Does WT get angry about fact that I was without WT knowledge gave their magazine to other people, shared it and talked about content with other people ?? What "legal rights" they have on that?? NO rights.
But in second thing. If i used their content (get it legally from public sources, as in first example) as whole or as part and to share my opinion on subject with other people... what "legal rights" they have to stop me to do that?? NO rights.
But they have lawyers and money. And that is answer. Not some fantomic freedom of speech or human rights. Who have power and money he have "rights" and "law" but where is Justice?
is it Justice that WT spread doctrines and no one can said nothing contrary to that? :)))))))