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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Who is real Owner of WT publications intellectual content and all published words?   
    in many examples about doctrinal and instructional things about which we can discuss and about people giving opinions and critics or opposite standpoint than WT have, we do not need to copy/paste all article or book because of "fear" how some critics of WT text are "out of context" in producing opposite view of some WT teaching. 
    Some sentences (or even one alone) as part of bigger context can stay for itself as very clear and independent thought of author. With no misunderstanding what particular sentence cary as message, as teaching, as instruction to members. We do not need to always repeat, in writing or in verbal expression, all articles or public talk from GB members, to give prove how we are "In Context" of original text.
    Critical look on WT Doctrine is not something that need to be stoped by Law. Because we have more powerful Bible permission on this issue: "TEST the Spirits!" How do you expect that me or you exercise this TESTING if I/you are not allowed by WT, who using hand of secular law, to stop people in their expression about issues that is problematic or are contrary to their conscience or understanding.
    WT proved how they are itself as organization, changing all the time so called "bible based teachings" and by that , publicly show that they are not promoting "The Truth" but just human opinion on what truth may/can be, possible is.    
    About JW and Jw. In our language (Croatian) grammatical rules are such that J is big first letter and w is small letter. Always been and stayed. No matter of US changing. The only changed Watchtower (magazine) from Kula stražara to Stražarska kula. And KH of JW, because of some grammar clearance of meaning.  
            
  2. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Noble Berean in 1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses   
      hi·er·ar·chy noun noun: hierarchy; plural noun: hierarchies a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.

    Edit:
     
  3. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Noble Berean in 1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses   
    What is it then? The organization wants unquestioned loyalty, but when it goofs up that's on individual JWs? You can't have it both ways. It's a contradiction. This isn't the only time that the org plays two sides of the coin.
    It's dishonest for the organization to suggest that 1975 enthusiasm was generated by some rank & file JWs. That's the implication from that convention video. Any active JW knows the organization is tightly controlled, and those at the top are in control of the wheel. WT literature promoted 1975 as an end-date and endorsed JWs who sold off property and made life adjustments in expectation of it. JWs who believed in an impending end and made major life adjustments did exactly what the WT encourages JWs to do today: "Listen, Obey, and Be Blessed."
    So, what did we learn from the 1975 failure? How is our situation today any different than it was 42 years ago? JWs continue to hang onto the words of the GB like gospel, and that attitude is still promoted in our literature. The GB was wrong about 1975, but ultimately people moved on. But as our time is reduced in this system, our decisions have greater weight, so correct direction matters more.
  4. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    Which is the iron and which is the clay?  Scripture, or Watchtower quotes?  Shouldn't all doctrine be supported by scripture?
    If you trust the men who support Watchtower history, you certainly will not perceive what the following scripture is telling us.  If you trust God's Word and his clear-cut definition outlined in Deut 18:20 concerning false prophesy, and compare it to Wt's history,  you may then comprehend what this scripture is revealing.  I certainly hope so.
    "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,  not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.  (1914)  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,  who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."   
    "In 1914—certainly a long time after 33 C.E.—Christ Jesus began his royal presence."  Wt 04/3/1
    1914 is a Wt lie, along with all their failed prophesies.  The "son of perdition", the man of lawlessness is the elder body who rules over/sits in God's Temple.  That Temple consists of the anointed ones; and it has been defiled.   1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17  
     
  5. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    Which is the iron and which is the clay?  Scripture, or Watchtower quotes?  Shouldn't all doctrine be supported by scripture?
    If you trust the men who support Watchtower history, you certainly will not perceive what the following scripture is telling us.  If you trust God's Word and his clear-cut definition outlined in Deut 18:20 concerning false prophesy, and compare it to Wt's history,  you may then comprehend what this scripture is revealing.  I certainly hope so.
    "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,  not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.  (1914)  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,  who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."   
    "In 1914—certainly a long time after 33 C.E.—Christ Jesus began his royal presence."  Wt 04/3/1
    1914 is a Wt lie, along with all their failed prophesies.  The "son of perdition", the man of lawlessness is the elder body who rules over/sits in God's Temple.  That Temple consists of the anointed ones; and it has been defiled.   1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17  
     
  6. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    1924 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211)
    1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)
    1971 -  "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)
    “The true prophet never foretold simply to satisfy human curiosity. Every prediction related to God’s will, purpose, standards, or judgment. (1Ki 11:29-39; Isa 7:3-9) Often the future events foretold were the consequence of existing conditions; as the people sowed, so they would reap. The false prophets lulled the people and their leaders with soothing assurances that, despite their unrighteous course, God was still with them to protect and prosper them. (Jer 23:16-20; 28:1-14; Eze 13:1-16; compare Lu 6:26.) it-2 pp. 694-698
    “When faced with far-reaching decisions, we do not trust in our own wisdom but look to Jehovah and his organization for guidance.  
    And just as a child seeks his parents’ protection when a storm rages, we seek protection in Jehovah’s organization when, like a thunderstorm, the problems of this world strike us.”  Wt 11/4/15 pp. 3-5
    It-2 continued:  But the true prophet was not solely or even primarily a prognosticator, as has been shown. Rather, he was an advocate of righteousness, and his message dealt primarily with moral standards and their application. He expressed God’s mind on matters. (Isa 1:10-20; Mic 6:1-12) Hence, it was not necessary to wait perhaps for years or generations to determine whether the prophet was true or false by fulfillment of a prediction. If his message contradicted God’s revealed will and standards, he was false. Thus, a prophet who foretold peace for Israel or Judah, at a time when the people were engaging in disobedience to God’s Word and Law, of necessity was false.
    “Jehovah’s people enjoy a special environment of peace in the earthly part of his organization.”  Wt 15/7/15 
    “For when they say, ‘Peace and safety!’ then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.”  1 Thess 5:3
    “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.”  Col 2:8
     “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”  Deut 18:20 
     “‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash,  therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth.  When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?”  Ezek 13:10-12
     
     
  7. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    @Israeli Bar Avaddhon
    Sir, I have put your quotes in green:
    My question is: to go where?
    Sir, we go to the one who has the sayings of eternal life, which Srecko highlighted with scripture.   It is the Son of God. It isn’t the Watchtower, since the leaders admit to not being inspired and haven’t been since the beginning.  Rev 2:2,9; Rev 3:8-13
    Can you see that the disciples followed only Jesus?
    “But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.  Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  John 6:68,69
    Should we go to religions who have taught abominations like the hell of fire, the trinity, the mother of God, innate immortality of the human soul, predestination, limbo, purgatory, and so on?
    “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.” 1 John 2:15,16  That includes the Watchtower. 
    Any Watchtower errors do not make false religion a little bit more truth.
    Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
     “Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this (literal) mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.”
    “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:10,21,23,24
    I would be very careful before saying "leave this religion".
    “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.  For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.  Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.  In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’  Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.”
    This cannot refer to Christendom, because as you say, God’s people are being disciplined.  This refers to the Watchtower, where God’s anointed ones are “camped”.  Rev 20:9
     “Flee from the midst of Babylon,
    And every one save his life!
    Do not be cut off in her iniquity,
    For this is the time of the Lord’s vengeance;
    He shall recompense her.
     Babylon was a golden cup in the Lord’s hand,
    That made all the earth drunk.
    The nations drank her wine;
    Therefore the nations are deranged.”
    The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,  and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” Yet, the Watchtower promotes itself as Zion.
     Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
    Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
    38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” John 18:36-38a
    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”  John 14:6
    Is Jesus making an exception to this rule for an organization fabricated through the use of worldly tools and situated in, Satan’s world?  Think about it.  God and Christ are pure, while the organization is filthy rich, and run as other corporate entities are, in Satan’s world.  Why would Jesus use Satan’s resources, who literally wants to kill off all Christ’s anointed brothers (Gen 3:15) and condone anything in this system?  The Watchtower consistently teaches you to be ‘no part of the word’ yet they are so mired down in its dung, JWs see only the icing on the; well,....  It is blasphemy for an organization so full of false prophesy, false security, sin against victims of child abuse,, lawsuits,  and disfellowshipped individuals who desire to follow the truth in Christ – to call itself “the truth” and “Zion”.   
    It is the delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12 and the ‘spirit-breathed’ Beast of Revelation.  (spirit-directed organization)
    “Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.”  Rev 13:1
    Read further and see how this Beast comes against God’s Temple/anointed ones; (1 Cor 3:16,17) accompanied by a false prophet who authorizes the “trampling”.  Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3
    During the discipline of Jehovah many "fake brothers" will no longer exist. Probably there will not be anyone who has idolized men above the Word of God.  We can not know how many will be, how many will remain.
    The faithful to God and Christ are found “outside the camp”, despised as “garbage”, persecuted by their own brethren for following the one Master, Jesus Christ. Matt 6:24; John 15:6; Heb 13:12-15; 1 Cor 4:13; Matt 5:11; 24:48-51
    “Woe to those who decree unrighteous decrees,
    Who write misfortune,
    Which they have prescribed
    2 To rob the needy of justice,
    And to take what is right from the poor of My people,
    That widows may be their prey,
    And that they may rob the fatherless.
    3 What will you do in the day of punishment,
    And in the desolation which will come from afar?
    To whom will you flee for help?
    And where will you leave your glory?
    4 Without Me they shall bow down among the prisoners,
    And they shall fall among the slain.”
    For all this His anger is not turned away,
    But His hand is stretched out still.
    Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Lord has performed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, that He will say, “I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his haughty looks.” 
    Then the rest of the trees of his forest
    Will be so few in number
    That a child may write them.”  Isa 10:1-4, 12, 19
    A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Therefore by their fruits you will know them.  Matt 7:18,20
    Please, do not perceive the large print as “yelling”, but to help connect the importance of Christ’s words – although it is a trumpet call to leave the crumbling wall of lies behind. Rev 11:2,3   Ezek chapter 13 is having its second fulfillment. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
  8. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Timeline of the 'Light Getting Brighter'   
    @Srecko Sostar listed a few faithful and discreet slave teachings; here are a few more.  Still, they don't cover them all.
    Russel was considered the “faithful slave”, even up to 1923.
    At one point it was taught that Jesus AND/OR the anointed ones were the “faithful slave”.  (1927)
    Wt 13/7/15 pp. 20-25 - “Jesus did not say that he would appoint an evil slave. His words here are actually a warning directed to the faithful and discreet slave.”
    If these words are a warning, should the possibility be completely dismissed that an evil slave can indeed exist? Presently, the self-assuming governing body says there is no evil slave.    
    With this parable, the purported “faithful slave” today has decided to erase a good deal of its application to suit their needs; and only accept Matt 24:45-47 as verifiable scripture – that they fulfill the term, “faithful and discreet”.  In fact, David Splane remarked that the “slave” is not 1900 years old. 
    Srecko, I believe you can flush all those ‘old light’ teachings about a faithful slave, down the toilet.  (Matt 7:17-20; John 15:16)
    The rest of the matter concerning the faithful slave, Matt 24:48-51, has been discarded.  The GB has proposed a straw man argument to refute Jesus’ warnings of their own debased tactics used against their “fellow servants”.  With one sweep of the hand, individuals, both anointed and those not anointed are disfellowshipped for rejecting “new light”; while the governing body is still considered “faithful and discreet” above and beyond any further established “new light” that they most assuredly will decree.  Matt 5:11,12; Isa 66:5; John 16:2; James 4:12
     “New light” is an actual rejection of their own doctrine. 
    This implies that one’s faithfulness is gauged on accepting man’s changing doctrine.  That doctrine appears to carry more validity than God’s scriptures.  Man’s decrees can substitute what Jesus and the apostles have outlined for us. Watchtower doctrine, is a yoke placed on the shoulders of “fellow servants” that is never relieved, but only made heavier. It is the result of the "timeline of the light getting brighter".    Ezek 34:16
     “King Rehoboam took counsel with the old men, who had stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived, saying, “What counsel do you give me to return answer to this people?”
     They spoke to him, saying, “If you are kind to this people, and please them, and speak good words to them, then they will be your servants forever.”
     But he abandoned the counsel of the old men which they had given him, and took counsel with the young men who had grown up with him, who stood before him.  He said to them, “What counsel do you give, that we may return answer to this people, who have spoken to me, saying, ‘Make the yoke that your father put on us lighter?’”
     The young men who had grown up with him spoke to him, saying, “Thus you shall tell the people who spoke to you, saying, ‘Your father made our yoke heavy, but make it lighter on us;’ thus you shall say to them, ‘My little finger is thicker than my father’s waist.  Now whereas my father burdened you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke. My father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.’”
     Is this not true with the Wt. changes of who is the “faithful slave”?  It has come to the point that the  anointed now must listen to seven men, not to Christ individually. They also must obey an army of elders. God’s anointed people are treated as imbeciles who are unable to discern truth on their own, contrary to every scripture that refers to their ability to do so. James 1:5; John 14:26; 1 John 2:20,21
    Jesus said, “Come to me, all you who labor and are heavily burdened, and I will give you rest.  Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, -  not from men who blame Jesus for imperfect food; which in reality is faulty, uninspired doctrine.
    for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you will find rest for your souls.  For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”  Matt 11:28-30
    Scorpions; they are found in Revelation, combined with plaguing locusts, and who are released by the false prophet, “Wormwood”, to torment God’s anointed ones. Watchtower refers to the locust/scorpions as missionaries who bring a “stinging message” to the world.  Has any person contacted in the “preaching work” felt that the message presented by JWs, “stings”?  The locust/scorpions torment the anointed, who have not been sealed by God, (Rev 9:4,5) which indicates the source of this tormenting army comes from within the Watchtower.  (Rev 7:3,4)
    Revelation “signifies” this torment (Rev 1:1); not as physical, but as an emotional turmoil; yet, the emotional can superimpose onto the physical, creating “significant” upheaval in the mind and heart of anointed ones, as well as their brethren. Rev 9:6; Matt 24:9,21; Luke 21:12,13; James 2:6; John 16:2; Rev 13:15  An “evil slave” uses the locust-scorpion/elder body to carry out this torment against the anointed ones; through teachings, rules of obedience, and subsequent disfellowshipping for speaking against doctrine. Isa 9:15,16; Matt 24:48,49; Rev 9:3-6;13:7  
    JWs, if there is one doctrine that you may disagree with, are you ever soothed by Watchtower’s words to continue to obey without question, or does it always nag the conscience; that is, if we exercise our God-given conscience? 
    If the Governing Body, whom we remember is not inspired, can call itself with determination that it is the “faithful and discreet slave”; then according to scripture, it is a valid claim that anointed who are actually inspired, and who have experienced the “beating” by the Governing Body and their henchmen, can confidently address them, as the “evil slave”. 
    Which anointed ones have God’s blessing? They are those who listen to, and can hear ,Jesus Christ, their true and only Master, through the guidance of Holy Spirit.  They are not the showy ones, not “prominent”, and not highly esteemed; but neither was Jesus.  Matt 25:40; James 2:2-4; 1 Cor 1:26-29
    This split among the anointed ones; the segregation of those who love only truth in Christ from those who prefer the “new light” from an evil slave, was prophesied to occur during the last days.  2 Thess 2:1-12.  When an anointed one upholds Christ, the evil slave cannot tolerate such dissension.  They are disfellowshipped – spiritually “killed”. They suffer for their testimony of Christ.   Luke 22:31; Rev 13:7,10,15; Rev 12:17,11; Mark 10:29-31; John 12:25
    “Dear friends, don’t be surprised when the fiery ordeal comes among you to test you as if something unusual were happening to you.  Instead, rejoice as you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may also rejoice with great joy when his glory is revealed.  If you are ridiculed for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. Let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or a meddler.  But if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed but let him glorify God in having that name.  For the time has come for judgment to begin with God’s household, (1 Pet 2:5; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 10:21)  and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?” 1 Pet 4:12-17
     
     
     
     
  9. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    It’s not about being bitter, Tom.  It’s about our tolerance to lies – rotten fruit/spiritual food -  and our avoidance of truth. Luke 6:43-45; 2 Thess 2:9-12
    God has never condoned deception and lies, and 42 years is nothing to the Father.
    And yes, I do pray for JWs to wake up and get out.  Rev 18:4-8 
     
  10. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in 1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses   
    "And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;  knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2 Pet 1:19-21
    What does the list of "messages" prove? The source of the messages are not from holy men moved by the Holy Spirit.  
  11. Like
    Witness reacted to Matthew9969 in Timeline of the 'Light Getting Brighter'   
    I am curious, why the need to keep a strict chronological timeline of the doctrinal changes of the watchtower? Since the Governing body is the faithful and discreet slave, and Gods mouthpiece, is their spiritual ear hard of hearing, or is Jehovah changing doctrine?
  12. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Matthew9969 in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    @Israeli Bar Avaddhon
    Sir, I have put your quotes in green:
    My question is: to go where?
    Sir, we go to the one who has the sayings of eternal life, which Srecko highlighted with scripture.   It is the Son of God. It isn’t the Watchtower, since the leaders admit to not being inspired and haven’t been since the beginning.  Rev 2:2,9; Rev 3:8-13
    Can you see that the disciples followed only Jesus?
    “But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.  Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  John 6:68,69
    Should we go to religions who have taught abominations like the hell of fire, the trinity, the mother of God, innate immortality of the human soul, predestination, limbo, purgatory, and so on?
    “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.” 1 John 2:15,16  That includes the Watchtower. 
    Any Watchtower errors do not make false religion a little bit more truth.
    Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
     “Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this (literal) mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.”
    “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:10,21,23,24
    I would be very careful before saying "leave this religion".
    “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.  For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.  Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.  In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’  Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.”
    This cannot refer to Christendom, because as you say, God’s people are being disciplined.  This refers to the Watchtower, where God’s anointed ones are “camped”.  Rev 20:9
     “Flee from the midst of Babylon,
    And every one save his life!
    Do not be cut off in her iniquity,
    For this is the time of the Lord’s vengeance;
    He shall recompense her.
     Babylon was a golden cup in the Lord’s hand,
    That made all the earth drunk.
    The nations drank her wine;
    Therefore the nations are deranged.”
    The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,  and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” Yet, the Watchtower promotes itself as Zion.
     Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
    Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
    38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” John 18:36-38a
    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”  John 14:6
    Is Jesus making an exception to this rule for an organization fabricated through the use of worldly tools and situated in, Satan’s world?  Think about it.  God and Christ are pure, while the organization is filthy rich, and run as other corporate entities are, in Satan’s world.  Why would Jesus use Satan’s resources, who literally wants to kill off all Christ’s anointed brothers (Gen 3:15) and condone anything in this system?  The Watchtower consistently teaches you to be ‘no part of the word’ yet they are so mired down in its dung, JWs see only the icing on the; well,....  It is blasphemy for an organization so full of false prophesy, false security, sin against victims of child abuse,, lawsuits,  and disfellowshipped individuals who desire to follow the truth in Christ – to call itself “the truth” and “Zion”.   
    It is the delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12 and the ‘spirit-breathed’ Beast of Revelation.  (spirit-directed organization)
    “Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.”  Rev 13:1
    Read further and see how this Beast comes against God’s Temple/anointed ones; (1 Cor 3:16,17) accompanied by a false prophet who authorizes the “trampling”.  Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3
    During the discipline of Jehovah many "fake brothers" will no longer exist. Probably there will not be anyone who has idolized men above the Word of God.  We can not know how many will be, how many will remain.
    The faithful to God and Christ are found “outside the camp”, despised as “garbage”, persecuted by their own brethren for following the one Master, Jesus Christ. Matt 6:24; John 15:6; Heb 13:12-15; 1 Cor 4:13; Matt 5:11; 24:48-51
    “Woe to those who decree unrighteous decrees,
    Who write misfortune,
    Which they have prescribed
    2 To rob the needy of justice,
    And to take what is right from the poor of My people,
    That widows may be their prey,
    And that they may rob the fatherless.
    3 What will you do in the day of punishment,
    And in the desolation which will come from afar?
    To whom will you flee for help?
    And where will you leave your glory?
    4 Without Me they shall bow down among the prisoners,
    And they shall fall among the slain.”
    For all this His anger is not turned away,
    But His hand is stretched out still.
    Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Lord has performed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, that He will say, “I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his haughty looks.” 
    Then the rest of the trees of his forest
    Will be so few in number
    That a child may write them.”  Isa 10:1-4, 12, 19
    A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Therefore by their fruits you will know them.  Matt 7:18,20
    Please, do not perceive the large print as “yelling”, but to help connect the importance of Christ’s words – although it is a trumpet call to leave the crumbling wall of lies behind. Rev 11:2,3   Ezek chapter 13 is having its second fulfillment. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
  13. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Sorry if i am bored, but "1975 events", as unpleasant and inseparable part of WT JWorg history, was portion of official convention spiritual food program this year. GB digging their own and yours (members) past. Perhaps GB looking to much apostate channels about 1975 and been provoked to put this same subject as "proper food in proper time" (with late of few decades :)))))))) almost half century.   
  14. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Whom Should You Obey?   
    This few man who running this Corporative Religion.... No offence to JW member. Two facts are; WTBTS is Company, Corporation, and Jehovah's Witnesses are international group who are associated themselves (again, under management of  WT inc.) to worship God..... to continue ....this few man are full of controversy in publicly addressed talks (and in written quotes).
    One said, "We are not hiding peadofiles, we are clean organization." Other said "We have good policy against child perpetrators and protect minors." Other said, "We giving spiritual protection, secular government have to provide physical protection."
    One said, "Stick with what we have authorised and you will be safe". Other said, "JW around the world have own Bibles and are able to see if we give wrong, error instruction and will do by own conscience".   
    JW people looks to much their JW National TV  without "Critical Thinking", worldly terminology, hehe. That means in other words, biblical terminology - "TEST the spirits!"
  15. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Whom Should You Obey?   
    Good point.
    Watchtower’s governing body member, Anthony Morris, stated just recently that the “theocratic organization” receives its decisions or “decrees” from God.  (JW broadcasting)
    He comments, “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; If you want Jehovah’s blessing on you as an individual or family, certainly as an elder or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, but OBEY THE DECISION.
    JWs are being told that whether they understand Watchtower’s decrees or not, they must be obeyed.  Jesus tells us how we are to discern what a true teaching is.  Matt 7:15-20; Luke 6:43-45 
    He continues, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man made decisions.  This is governed from heaven.”
    This is utterly impossible, since the Governing Body admitted to not being inspired.  (Wt. 2017/2 pp. 20-26, par. 12)  
    Anthony Morris commented, “the decisions that are made by the faithful slave today, are made collectively.  Not one man is making these decisions, these decisions are made collectively”.
    Do JWs see the conundrum?  Firstly, he says they are not a collection of man made decisions. Then says, the decisions are made collectively.  Honestly; these are your leaders, JWs, who are speaking out of both sides of the mouth! 
    “Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God—who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly—and it will be given to him.  But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the doubter is like the surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord,  being double-minded and unstable in all his ways.“  James 1:5-8
     Uninspired men are proclaiming they are the channel used by God who governs the organization from heaven; and yet, it is through Holy Spirit that God would grant the understanding of His will. John 14:15-17   Is there another “channel” aside from Holy Spirit? Yes, there is. 
    “For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a different spirit, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!”  2 Cor 11:4
    “A good person produces good out of the good stored up in his heart. An evil person produces evil out of the evil stored up in his heart, for his mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart.”  Luke 6:45
    “Inspiration” means inhalation; a drawing in of breath.  The antonym is “exhalation” – the breath that leaves via the mouth.  Since the GB admit to not receiving Holy Spirit – “inspiration”, their gospel is sourced in another spirit. Only one type of “inspiration” can fill the heart – and overflow it.   
    God’s true messengers/witnesses receive inspiration from Holy Spirit. It is what teaches faithful anointed ones. 1 John 2:20,27; John 14:26  There is no inter-mediator; no consulting in an interior room, behind closed doors, or voting on a “decree”. John 16:12-14; Matt 10:20; Luke 12:12; Matt 24:23-27   
    These uninspired men must rely on each other to pass their decrees, which all JWs must obey, even if  their decrees are later considered an 'err in direction'.
    “If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations:  “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines.  Although these have a reputation for wisdom by promoting self-made religion, false humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence.”  Col 2:20-23
    “Now God has revealed these things to us by the Spirit, since the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.  For who knows a person’s thoughts except his spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 
    Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. 
     We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
    But the person without the Spirit (the uninspired governing body) does not receive what comes from the God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
    The spiritual person, (one individual) however, can evaluate everything, and yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone. 1 Cor 2:10-15
    Following and obeying men and their teachings who pass decrees devoid of Holy Spirit, yet hypocritically say they have their source in God, are hiding the true source of the spirit that guides them.  John 8:44
    By accepting these hypocritical teachings, the hearer is also receiving a “different spirit”.  Yet, JWs put up with it – “splendidly”.  2 Cor 11:4
    Why?
    1 Pet 3:10; 3 John 11
     
  16. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    Was Fred Franz, the vice president of the Society during that time period, one who was told NOT TO SPECULATE? And by who?   Or, could it have been the leaders who reviewed and gave a subsequent thumbs up to the 10/8/1968 Awake plus many other articles that apparently only misled .1% of the JW population at the time?  
    That says something about the lack of interest in the magazines...or public announcements. 
     
  17. Confused
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    Srecko compared it to healthy water of a questionable substance.
    Jesus is “living water”. John 7:38  If offered Watchtower’s glass of tainted water, and a glass of Jesus’ living water directly from the source, surely you would choose the latter.  Your comment establishes that Wt. is unable to bring anyone to this source.  Approaching Jesus directly is the more difficult route to take, because of the ramifications we suffer by doing so;  but in the long run it guarantees eternal life. Luke 9:24   Just from the little that I gather about you, you are a determined fighter and someone whom I have come to admire; but why would we back off fighting for eternal life and settle for allowing our “hat”/mind to be stomped into the mud by men who are unable, and really could care less, about offering eternal life?
    “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:  looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled”  Heb 12:14,15 
    This is referring to wormwood, a “bitter root”, that scriptures mention that God “sends” to his wayward people when they have sinned against him.  Jer 9:13-16; Lam 3:15; 2 Thess 2:11,12
    “The leaves and flowers are very bitter, with a characteristic odour, resembling that of thujone. The root has a warm and aromatic taste.  (A Modern Herbal) 
    Hebrews 12:14,15 is associating fallen anointed ones to this root, whose demeanor and teachings appear palatable and inviting, perhaps even speaking as Christ. Matt 7:15-17; Mark 13:21,22; 1 John 4:1; Rev 13:11; 20:10
    “Wormwood oil contains the chemical thujone, which excites the central nervous system.  However, it can also cause seizures and other adverse effects.” (webmd.com)
    “Intoxications have resulted from the ingestion of an aqueous decoction of thujone containing plants, for their supposed abortifacient action. Death by overdose has been reported for wormwood”.  (The Essential Guide to Herbal Safety)
    Anointed ones are compared to stars in the heavens. Matt 5:14,15; Phil 2:15  Those who wisely “shine” as “messengers” (angels) are in the “right hand” of Jesus. (Mal 2:7); Rev 1:20  Although they can be physically on the earth, they are secured in their “heavenly” position as stars in Jesus’ hand.  Eph 2:6; Rom 8:9; Heb 12:22,23
    “Also, regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our dear brother Paul has written to you according to the wisdom given to him. 16 He speaks about these things in all his letters. There are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable will twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.
     Therefore, dear friends, since you know this in advance, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position.  But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. 2 Pet 3:5-18
    It is very possible for anointed ones to lose their position in the Body of Christ; forfeiting the promise of salvation.  Ps 101:7; Heb 12:16  They are the root who mislead “many” by their teachings.
    In two places in Revelation a star is seen falling from heaven. Rev 8:10,11 names the star, Wormwood, and through its fall onto rivers and springs of water, (those basic true teachings) a symbolic “one third” of the waters become wormwood.  The symbolic meaning of three in scripture shows significant effect on a complete whole.  Take a large 100 year old ladle, stir well, and “many people die from the waters because they had become bitter”. 
    The source of “bitter” fruit, begins at the root. Matt 12:33-37; 3:10
    Revelation is like a puzzle, with each piece full of color and descriptions of the same scenario. 
    Wormwood is the fallen star, “Beast from the earth”, false prophet, Harlot/ Governing Body and generally all major leaders of the Watchtower. It falls like a “burning torch”, hardly something to be missed, especially to the “elect”.  Would it not “light up the whole house” and appear to be from Christ?   Prov 5:3-5; Rev 13:11; Rev 17:1; Matt 5:15; Matt 24:24; Eph 2:20-24
    The Wild Beast from the Sea is the locust/scorpion “Gentile” army that Wormwood releases from the abyss, after it falls from heaven; after it has spearheaded Satan’s plan into action. It is the gradual, steady growth of the now massive army of the Body of Elders who are the beating heart of the organization. Rev 13:1,4
     The description both in Revelation and Joel of the locusts, fit the actions and intentions of the Elder Body, exactly. Rev 9:7-11; Joel 2:3-11 By replacing the anointed priesthood, the result of the locusts’ “sting” and Wormwood’s water, brings spiritual affliction upon the unsealed anointed ones. ("seizures and other adverse effects")  Luke 22:24-26; Matt 24:48-51; Rev 9:4-6
    The Beasts are Gog and Magog who have surround the camp of the holy people.  Rev 20:7-9 Both identities have convinced the multitude of JWs, that the bulk of Revelation is not about them and God’s anointed people, but about the rest of mankind.  They will be judged according to God’s righteous judgment; but God’s anointed people are subjected to this delusion of Satan’s, to test/sift each heart for their love of pure, healthy living water, or a barely potable, intoxicating cup from a questionable source.  Rev 18:2,3; Luke 22:31; Rev 12:1-4
    “Then I saw three unclean spirits like frogs (it takes time to become a full-fledged lie)
    coming from the dragon’s mouth, from the beast’s mouth (organization), and from the mouth of the false prophet.
     For they are demonic spirits performing signs, who travel (preaching work) to the kings (anointed ones) of the whole world (of God’s “inhabited dwelling”)  to assemble them for the battle on the great day of God, the Almighty.
     “Look, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who is alert and remains clothed (Heb 4:13; Matt 22:37) so that he may not go around naked and people see his shame.”  So they assembled the kings at the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon."  Rev 16:13-16
    In Ezekiel, Gog is destroyed in the valley of “Hamon-Gog” – the “multitude of Gog”, “a valley of graves”.  Joel 3:14 calls it, “the valley of decision”, where “multitudes” are found.  Ezek 39:11 
    John 7:38 -  “The one who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, will have streams of living water flow from deep within him.”
    “Deep” meaning at the root, which is the heart.  Matt 13:18-23; Luke 6:45 
     You are wise, but there are those contacted in the “preaching work” who are not as intelligent, (like me) and wouldn’t know how to avoid the poison.  Who is responsible when the person suffers from its affect; the one dangling the carrot, the one snatching it up… or both?
    Since Satan also knows the core truths, he uses them to set the foundation for the lie.  Rev 13:2
  18. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    Was Fred Franz, the vice president of the Society during that time period, one who was told NOT TO SPECULATE? And by who?   Or, could it have been the leaders who reviewed and gave a subsequent thumbs up to the 10/8/1968 Awake plus many other articles that apparently only misled .1% of the JW population at the time?  
    That says something about the lack of interest in the magazines...or public announcements. 
     
  19. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in Whom Should You Obey?   
    Good point.
    Watchtower’s governing body member, Anthony Morris, stated just recently that the “theocratic organization” receives its decisions or “decrees” from God.  (JW broadcasting)
    He comments, “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; If you want Jehovah’s blessing on you as an individual or family, certainly as an elder or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, but OBEY THE DECISION.
    JWs are being told that whether they understand Watchtower’s decrees or not, they must be obeyed.  Jesus tells us how we are to discern what a true teaching is.  Matt 7:15-20; Luke 6:43-45 
    He continues, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man made decisions.  This is governed from heaven.”
    This is utterly impossible, since the Governing Body admitted to not being inspired.  (Wt. 2017/2 pp. 20-26, par. 12)  
    Anthony Morris commented, “the decisions that are made by the faithful slave today, are made collectively.  Not one man is making these decisions, these decisions are made collectively”.
    Do JWs see the conundrum?  Firstly, he says they are not a collection of man made decisions. Then says, the decisions are made collectively.  Honestly; these are your leaders, JWs, who are speaking out of both sides of the mouth! 
    “Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God—who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly—and it will be given to him.  But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the doubter is like the surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord,  being double-minded and unstable in all his ways.“  James 1:5-8
     Uninspired men are proclaiming they are the channel used by God who governs the organization from heaven; and yet, it is through Holy Spirit that God would grant the understanding of His will. John 14:15-17   Is there another “channel” aside from Holy Spirit? Yes, there is. 
    “For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a different spirit, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!”  2 Cor 11:4
    “A good person produces good out of the good stored up in his heart. An evil person produces evil out of the evil stored up in his heart, for his mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart.”  Luke 6:45
    “Inspiration” means inhalation; a drawing in of breath.  The antonym is “exhalation” – the breath that leaves via the mouth.  Since the GB admit to not receiving Holy Spirit – “inspiration”, their gospel is sourced in another spirit. Only one type of “inspiration” can fill the heart – and overflow it.   
    God’s true messengers/witnesses receive inspiration from Holy Spirit. It is what teaches faithful anointed ones. 1 John 2:20,27; John 14:26  There is no inter-mediator; no consulting in an interior room, behind closed doors, or voting on a “decree”. John 16:12-14; Matt 10:20; Luke 12:12; Matt 24:23-27   
    These uninspired men must rely on each other to pass their decrees, which all JWs must obey, even if  their decrees are later considered an 'err in direction'.
    “If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations:  “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines.  Although these have a reputation for wisdom by promoting self-made religion, false humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence.”  Col 2:20-23
    “Now God has revealed these things to us by the Spirit, since the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.  For who knows a person’s thoughts except his spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 
    Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. 
     We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
    But the person without the Spirit (the uninspired governing body) does not receive what comes from the God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
    The spiritual person, (one individual) however, can evaluate everything, and yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone. 1 Cor 2:10-15
    Following and obeying men and their teachings who pass decrees devoid of Holy Spirit, yet hypocritically say they have their source in God, are hiding the true source of the spirit that guides them.  John 8:44
    By accepting these hypocritical teachings, the hearer is also receiving a “different spirit”.  Yet, JWs put up with it – “splendidly”.  2 Cor 11:4
    Why?
    1 Pet 3:10; 3 John 11
     
  20. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    @Israeli Bar Avaddhon
    Sir, I have put your quotes in green:
    My question is: to go where?
    Sir, we go to the one who has the sayings of eternal life, which Srecko highlighted with scripture.   It is the Son of God. It isn’t the Watchtower, since the leaders admit to not being inspired and haven’t been since the beginning.  Rev 2:2,9; Rev 3:8-13
    Can you see that the disciples followed only Jesus?
    “But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.  Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  John 6:68,69
    Should we go to religions who have taught abominations like the hell of fire, the trinity, the mother of God, innate immortality of the human soul, predestination, limbo, purgatory, and so on?
    “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.” 1 John 2:15,16  That includes the Watchtower. 
    Any Watchtower errors do not make false religion a little bit more truth.
    Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
     “Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this (literal) mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.”
    “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:10,21,23,24
    I would be very careful before saying "leave this religion".
    “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.  For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.  Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.  In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’  Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.”
    This cannot refer to Christendom, because as you say, God’s people are being disciplined.  This refers to the Watchtower, where God’s anointed ones are “camped”.  Rev 20:9
     “Flee from the midst of Babylon,
    And every one save his life!
    Do not be cut off in her iniquity,
    For this is the time of the Lord’s vengeance;
    He shall recompense her.
     Babylon was a golden cup in the Lord’s hand,
    That made all the earth drunk.
    The nations drank her wine;
    Therefore the nations are deranged.”
    The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,  and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” Yet, the Watchtower promotes itself as Zion.
     Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
    Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
    38 Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” John 18:36-38a
    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”  John 14:6
    Is Jesus making an exception to this rule for an organization fabricated through the use of worldly tools and situated in, Satan’s world?  Think about it.  God and Christ are pure, while the organization is filthy rich, and run as other corporate entities are, in Satan’s world.  Why would Jesus use Satan’s resources, who literally wants to kill off all Christ’s anointed brothers (Gen 3:15) and condone anything in this system?  The Watchtower consistently teaches you to be ‘no part of the word’ yet they are so mired down in its dung, JWs see only the icing on the; well,....  It is blasphemy for an organization so full of false prophesy, false security, sin against victims of child abuse,, lawsuits,  and disfellowshipped individuals who desire to follow the truth in Christ – to call itself “the truth” and “Zion”.   
    It is the delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12 and the ‘spirit-breathed’ Beast of Revelation.  (spirit-directed organization)
    “Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.”  Rev 13:1
    Read further and see how this Beast comes against God’s Temple/anointed ones; (1 Cor 3:16,17) accompanied by a false prophet who authorizes the “trampling”.  Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3
    During the discipline of Jehovah many "fake brothers" will no longer exist. Probably there will not be anyone who has idolized men above the Word of God.  We can not know how many will be, how many will remain.
    The faithful to God and Christ are found “outside the camp”, despised as “garbage”, persecuted by their own brethren for following the one Master, Jesus Christ. Matt 6:24; John 15:6; Heb 13:12-15; 1 Cor 4:13; Matt 5:11; 24:48-51
    “Woe to those who decree unrighteous decrees,
    Who write misfortune,
    Which they have prescribed
    2 To rob the needy of justice,
    And to take what is right from the poor of My people,
    That widows may be their prey,
    And that they may rob the fatherless.
    3 What will you do in the day of punishment,
    And in the desolation which will come from afar?
    To whom will you flee for help?
    And where will you leave your glory?
    4 Without Me they shall bow down among the prisoners,
    And they shall fall among the slain.”
    For all this His anger is not turned away,
    But His hand is stretched out still.
    Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Lord has performed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, that He will say, “I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his haughty looks.” 
    Then the rest of the trees of his forest
    Will be so few in number
    That a child may write them.”  Isa 10:1-4, 12, 19
    A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Therefore by their fruits you will know them.  Matt 7:18,20
    Please, do not perceive the large print as “yelling”, but to help connect the importance of Christ’s words – although it is a trumpet call to leave the crumbling wall of lies behind. Rev 11:2,3   Ezek chapter 13 is having its second fulfillment. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
  21. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    Srecko compared it to healthy water of a questionable substance.
    Jesus is “living water”. John 7:38  If offered Watchtower’s glass of tainted water, and a glass of Jesus’ living water directly from the source, surely you would choose the latter.  Your comment establishes that Wt. is unable to bring anyone to this source.  Approaching Jesus directly is the more difficult route to take, because of the ramifications we suffer by doing so;  but in the long run it guarantees eternal life. Luke 9:24   Just from the little that I gather about you, you are a determined fighter and someone whom I have come to admire; but why would we back off fighting for eternal life and settle for allowing our “hat”/mind to be stomped into the mud by men who are unable, and really could care less, about offering eternal life?
    “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:  looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled”  Heb 12:14,15 
    This is referring to wormwood, a “bitter root”, that scriptures mention that God “sends” to his wayward people when they have sinned against him.  Jer 9:13-16; Lam 3:15; 2 Thess 2:11,12
    “The leaves and flowers are very bitter, with a characteristic odour, resembling that of thujone. The root has a warm and aromatic taste.  (A Modern Herbal) 
    Hebrews 12:14,15 is associating fallen anointed ones to this root, whose demeanor and teachings appear palatable and inviting, perhaps even speaking as Christ. Matt 7:15-17; Mark 13:21,22; 1 John 4:1; Rev 13:11; 20:10
    “Wormwood oil contains the chemical thujone, which excites the central nervous system.  However, it can also cause seizures and other adverse effects.” (webmd.com)
    “Intoxications have resulted from the ingestion of an aqueous decoction of thujone containing plants, for their supposed abortifacient action. Death by overdose has been reported for wormwood”.  (The Essential Guide to Herbal Safety)
    Anointed ones are compared to stars in the heavens. Matt 5:14,15; Phil 2:15  Those who wisely “shine” as “messengers” (angels) are in the “right hand” of Jesus. (Mal 2:7); Rev 1:20  Although they can be physically on the earth, they are secured in their “heavenly” position as stars in Jesus’ hand.  Eph 2:6; Rom 8:9; Heb 12:22,23
    “Also, regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our dear brother Paul has written to you according to the wisdom given to him. 16 He speaks about these things in all his letters. There are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable will twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.
     Therefore, dear friends, since you know this in advance, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position.  But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. 2 Pet 3:5-18
    It is very possible for anointed ones to lose their position in the Body of Christ; forfeiting the promise of salvation.  Ps 101:7; Heb 12:16  They are the root who mislead “many” by their teachings.
    In two places in Revelation a star is seen falling from heaven. Rev 8:10,11 names the star, Wormwood, and through its fall onto rivers and springs of water, (those basic true teachings) a symbolic “one third” of the waters become wormwood.  The symbolic meaning of three in scripture shows significant effect on a complete whole.  Take a large 100 year old ladle, stir well, and “many people die from the waters because they had become bitter”. 
    The source of “bitter” fruit, begins at the root. Matt 12:33-37; 3:10
    Revelation is like a puzzle, with each piece full of color and descriptions of the same scenario. 
    Wormwood is the fallen star, “Beast from the earth”, false prophet, Harlot/ Governing Body and generally all major leaders of the Watchtower. It falls like a “burning torch”, hardly something to be missed, especially to the “elect”.  Would it not “light up the whole house” and appear to be from Christ?   Prov 5:3-5; Rev 13:11; Rev 17:1; Matt 5:15; Matt 24:24; Eph 2:20-24
    The Wild Beast from the Sea is the locust/scorpion “Gentile” army that Wormwood releases from the abyss, after it falls from heaven; after it has spearheaded Satan’s plan into action. It is the gradual, steady growth of the now massive army of the Body of Elders who are the beating heart of the organization. Rev 13:1,4
     The description both in Revelation and Joel of the locusts, fit the actions and intentions of the Elder Body, exactly. Rev 9:7-11; Joel 2:3-11 By replacing the anointed priesthood, the result of the locusts’ “sting” and Wormwood’s water, brings spiritual affliction upon the unsealed anointed ones. ("seizures and other adverse effects")  Luke 22:24-26; Matt 24:48-51; Rev 9:4-6
    The Beasts are Gog and Magog who have surround the camp of the holy people.  Rev 20:7-9 Both identities have convinced the multitude of JWs, that the bulk of Revelation is not about them and God’s anointed people, but about the rest of mankind.  They will be judged according to God’s righteous judgment; but God’s anointed people are subjected to this delusion of Satan’s, to test/sift each heart for their love of pure, healthy living water, or a barely potable, intoxicating cup from a questionable source.  Rev 18:2,3; Luke 22:31; Rev 12:1-4
    “Then I saw three unclean spirits like frogs (it takes time to become a full-fledged lie)
    coming from the dragon’s mouth, from the beast’s mouth (organization), and from the mouth of the false prophet.
     For they are demonic spirits performing signs, who travel (preaching work) to the kings (anointed ones) of the whole world (of God’s “inhabited dwelling”)  to assemble them for the battle on the great day of God, the Almighty.
     “Look, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who is alert and remains clothed (Heb 4:13; Matt 22:37) so that he may not go around naked and people see his shame.”  So they assembled the kings at the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon."  Rev 16:13-16
    In Ezekiel, Gog is destroyed in the valley of “Hamon-Gog” – the “multitude of Gog”, “a valley of graves”.  Joel 3:14 calls it, “the valley of decision”, where “multitudes” are found.  Ezek 39:11 
    John 7:38 -  “The one who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, will have streams of living water flow from deep within him.”
    “Deep” meaning at the root, which is the heart.  Matt 13:18-23; Luke 6:45 
     You are wise, but there are those contacted in the “preaching work” who are not as intelligent, (like me) and wouldn’t know how to avoid the poison.  Who is responsible when the person suffers from its affect; the one dangling the carrot, the one snatching it up… or both?
    Since Satan also knows the core truths, he uses them to set the foundation for the lie.  Rev 13:2
  22. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from DefenderOTT in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    "Do not work for food that spoils; instead, work for the food that lasts for eternal life. This is the food which the Son of Man will give you, because God, the Father, has put his mark of approval on him.”  John 6:27
  23. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in "Nourishing Spiritual Food"?   
    “Nourishing Spiritual Food”? 
    I cannot advocate the website listed at the end of this short video, as I haven’t gone there.  Also I do not see verification that the money from the sale of houses, properties and goods was given to the Watchtower at that time period.  But I will not dismiss the large possibility.  What is important about this video, is hearing how 1975 was truly proclaimed from the source; quite contrary to how the 2017 convention presented it: 
    “…you see, back then, some were looking to a certain date as signifying the end of this old system of things. A few, even went so far as selling their homes and quitting their jobs. (km 5/1974)"
    “But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.” 
     You may say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?”  When a prophet speaks in Yahweh’s name, if the thing doesn’t follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him.              Deut 18:20-22
    “This is what the LORD of Hosts says: "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are making you worthless. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the LORD's mouth.”  Jer 23:16
    “Behold, I am against the prophets, says Yahweh, who use their tongues, and say, He says. 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy lying dreams, says Yahweh, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their vain boasting: yet I didn’t send them, nor commanded them; neither do they profit this people at all, says Yahweh.”  Jer 23:31-32
    If we claim to read God's Word and live by it, then God's Word should help us distinguish truth from lies.  Matt 3:10
     
  24. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Matthew9969 in Whom Should You Obey?   
    Good point.
    Watchtower’s governing body member, Anthony Morris, stated just recently that the “theocratic organization” receives its decisions or “decrees” from God.  (JW broadcasting)
    He comments, “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; If you want Jehovah’s blessing on you as an individual or family, certainly as an elder or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, but OBEY THE DECISION.
    JWs are being told that whether they understand Watchtower’s decrees or not, they must be obeyed.  Jesus tells us how we are to discern what a true teaching is.  Matt 7:15-20; Luke 6:43-45 
    He continues, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man made decisions.  This is governed from heaven.”
    This is utterly impossible, since the Governing Body admitted to not being inspired.  (Wt. 2017/2 pp. 20-26, par. 12)  
    Anthony Morris commented, “the decisions that are made by the faithful slave today, are made collectively.  Not one man is making these decisions, these decisions are made collectively”.
    Do JWs see the conundrum?  Firstly, he says they are not a collection of man made decisions. Then says, the decisions are made collectively.  Honestly; these are your leaders, JWs, who are speaking out of both sides of the mouth! 
    “Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God—who gives to all generously and ungrudgingly—and it will be given to him.  But let him ask in faith without doubting. For the doubter is like the surging sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord,  being double-minded and unstable in all his ways.“  James 1:5-8
     Uninspired men are proclaiming they are the channel used by God who governs the organization from heaven; and yet, it is through Holy Spirit that God would grant the understanding of His will. John 14:15-17   Is there another “channel” aside from Holy Spirit? Yes, there is. 
    “For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a different spirit, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!”  2 Cor 11:4
    “A good person produces good out of the good stored up in his heart. An evil person produces evil out of the evil stored up in his heart, for his mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart.”  Luke 6:45
    “Inspiration” means inhalation; a drawing in of breath.  The antonym is “exhalation” – the breath that leaves via the mouth.  Since the GB admit to not receiving Holy Spirit – “inspiration”, their gospel is sourced in another spirit. Only one type of “inspiration” can fill the heart – and overflow it.   
    God’s true messengers/witnesses receive inspiration from Holy Spirit. It is what teaches faithful anointed ones. 1 John 2:20,27; John 14:26  There is no inter-mediator; no consulting in an interior room, behind closed doors, or voting on a “decree”. John 16:12-14; Matt 10:20; Luke 12:12; Matt 24:23-27   
    These uninspired men must rely on each other to pass their decrees, which all JWs must obey, even if  their decrees are later considered an 'err in direction'.
    “If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations:  “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines.  Although these have a reputation for wisdom by promoting self-made religion, false humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence.”  Col 2:20-23
    “Now God has revealed these things to us by the Spirit, since the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.  For who knows a person’s thoughts except his spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 
    Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. 
     We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
    But the person without the Spirit (the uninspired governing body) does not receive what comes from the God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
    The spiritual person, (one individual) however, can evaluate everything, and yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone. 1 Cor 2:10-15
    Following and obeying men and their teachings who pass decrees devoid of Holy Spirit, yet hypocritically say they have their source in God, are hiding the true source of the spirit that guides them.  John 8:44
    By accepting these hypocritical teachings, the hearer is also receiving a “different spirit”.  Yet, JWs put up with it – “splendidly”.  2 Cor 11:4
    Why?
    1 Pet 3:10; 3 John 11
     
  25. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Jack Ryan in 1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses   
    So in May 1974 you were commended if you sold your homes and property.
    In 2017 if you were one of those that sold your home and property you were weak and dedicated to "a date".
    The mind boggles. Is your mind boggled? Dont let it boggle too much!

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