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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in How Common is Shunning?   
    We are just humans, and we all have our good and bad. And must be able, have courage to say it.
    This afternoon i was recal one simple and "not important" behaviour in some other every day circumstances. Let me tell you.  The brother from the former assembly often parks his car on the parking lot, near the school where I work. This is a parking lot for my colleague school staff and two other institutions in the same building. He has no right to park there, but he still does. But what is ironic is this. After I left JWorg, he did not want to greet me on the street when we met  each other once, twice. But when his car was "trapped" in the parking lot because the ramp was down, he sent me an SMS message and asked me to help him get out. :)) Hypocrisy or not?
  2. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in How Common is Shunning?   
    Notice she still has her baby teeth?
     

  3. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in How Common is Shunning?   
    Srecko, how well you have revealed Watchtower's hypocrisy.
    “How horrible it will be for you, experts in Moses’ Teachings and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You are like whitewashed graves that look beautiful on the outside (a charity organization! ) but inside are full of dead people’s bones and every kind of impurity.  So on the outside you look as though you have God’s approval, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."  Matt 23:27,28 
  4. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in How Common is Shunning?   
    Notice she still has her baby teeth?
     

  5. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in How Common is Shunning?   
    Srecko, how well you have revealed Watchtower's hypocrisy.
    “How horrible it will be for you, experts in Moses’ Teachings and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You are like whitewashed graves that look beautiful on the outside (a charity organization! ) but inside are full of dead people’s bones and every kind of impurity.  So on the outside you look as though you have God’s approval, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."  Matt 23:27,28 
  6. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Anna in How Common is Shunning?   
    Very true. But what I find the problem is, is when someone no longer wishes to be a Witness after they have been dfd and after they are no longer practicing what they've been dfd for, so of course there is no chance of them being reinstated, which means they will be shunned forever with all it's implications (loved ones will not talk to them ever again)....
  7. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Anna in How Common is Shunning?   
    Ask any parent whose child (adult or otherwise) is disfellowshipped.
  8. Like
    Witness reacted to Matthew9969 in Apostate Attack   
    That is definitely the wrong way to go about having a dialogue with witnesses. This is a better way.....
     
  9. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Apostate Attack   
    Dear Nicole, 
    How is it that they are “mentally ill”, these “professional” apostates?  Was their language foul?  Were their stories insincere?  Were they physically aggressive?   Did they personally abuse anyone?
    It would seem to me that one is mentally ill when an elder or elder body chooses to harbor a pedophile in the organization; deliberately ignoring the large chance that another innocent one may be victimize, because of their insane decision to handle the matter ‘in house’.
    We know where that leads, don’t we. 
    Just saying.  
  10. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Apostate Attack   
    Dear Nicole, 
    How is it that they are “mentally ill”, these “professional” apostates?  Was their language foul?  Were their stories insincere?  Were they physically aggressive?   Did they personally abuse anyone?
    It would seem to me that one is mentally ill when an elder or elder body chooses to harbor a pedophile in the organization; deliberately ignoring the large chance that another innocent one may be victimize, because of their insane decision to handle the matter ‘in house’.
    We know where that leads, don’t we. 
    Just saying.  
  11. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Watcher in Anointed Ones and JW.org   
    JR, I say this sincerely.  I feel you have probably been in the Watchtower for a great many years and you steadfastly defend the organization and its leadership.  There are those anointed ones who reject Christ by accepting Satan’s promise of prominence and greed. Matt 4:8; 1 John 2:19 They are those in this time of the end who are used to create the trap against their fellow servants, allowing for the spiritual war of truth against lies.  We respect those who speak truth; why should we respect anyone who speaks a lie in the Father’s name?  Jer 23:16
    “For I am already bringing disaster on the city that bears my name, so how could you possibly go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, for I am summoning a sword against all the inhabitants of the earth. This is the declaration of the Lord of Armies.’  Jer 25:29 
    From the Wt. 04/2/15 pp. 15-20 “What methods do apostates use to achieve their aim? They often resort to distortions, half-truths, and outright falsehoods. Jesus knew that his followers would be victimized by those who would “tell all kinds of evil lies against” them. Such malicious opposers would tell what is not true with the intent to deceive others. The apostle Peter warned about apostates who would use “counterfeit words,” spread “deceptive teachings,” and ‘twist the Scriptures’ to their own ends. (2 Peter 2:3, 13; 3:16) Sadly, apostates succeed in “subverting the faith of some.”—2 Timothy 2:18. Wt. 04/2/15/ pp. 15-20
    Distortion, half-truths and outright falsehoods.  These are quotes from the video I posted under “Nourishing Spiritual Food?” under “Questions”:
    “But the big question is this. Is this year 1975 the final year, the last year before the Great Tribulation breaks and reaches its climax in the battle of the great day of God the almighty and Armageddon? Fred Franz, 2/10/1975 Los Angeles, CA
    “Well we don’t have to guess what the year 1975 means if we read the Watchtower, because the Watchtower has been very explicit as to what the year 1975 means for us when God will bring the battle of Armageddon and clean this ole earth off, and you will be ushered right into a paradise earth for ever more. Never again to be afflicted with this Satanic old system of things. It will be GONE, DOWN. Charles Sinutko, District Overseer, 1967 convention in Sheboygan, MI
    Watchtower, Nov. 1, 1972, p. 644 "Does this admission of making mistakes stamp them (Wt./GB) as false prophets? Not at all, for false prophets do not admit to making mistakes."
    Have they admitted to making a huge mistake about 1975? Is that how it was presented during the Annual Convention, 2017?  Nothing was said about who originated the lies, Watchtower’s own leadership.
    Wt. “Prophecy”, 1929, p 22 - "If these prophesies have not been fulfilled, and if all possibility of fulfilment is past, then these prophets are proven false."
    Should we respect a false prophet?
      “Either make the tree good and its fruit will be good, or make the tree bad and its fruit will be bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you speak good things when you are evil? For the mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart. 35 A good person produces good things from his storeroom of good, and an evil person produces evil things from his storeroom of evil. 36 I tell you that on the day of judgment people will have to account for every careless word they speak.37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
    An anointed one’s “storeroom” is their heart, which should only ‘store’ living waters of truth from Christ.  If they mislead millions with a lie, is it Jesus’ fault?  Jer 17:13; John 7:38
    “I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without me.”  John 15:5
    That fruit is purely good, nourishing, life-giving fruit.
    “This is what the Lord of Armies says: ‘Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are deluding you. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the Lord’s mouth.’”  Jer 23:16
    There is a connected chain of false prophets in the Watchtower.  The connection that links them together is the organization - Satan’s lie.  2 Thess 2:11,12; Zech 5:5-11; Rev 13:4-10
    “There were indeed false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved ways, and the way of truth will be maligned because of them. 3 They will exploit you in their greed with made-up stories. Their condemnation, pronounced long ago, is not idle, and their destruction does not sleep.”  2 Pet 2:1-3
     
     
     
     
  12. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Matthew9969 in Why a luxury compound?   
    I have a two part question: Why does Jehovah require the faithful and discreet slave to build a very expensive and grandiose luxury compound when the end of the world is imminent and how can the faithful and discreet slave justify the cost when they are not receiving as much money as they are spending?
  13. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Cognitionis in Witness' view of the GB   
    From Rom 8:9 you feel that because the “Spirit of God” and the “Spirit of Christ” are both mentioned, that this indicates two different spirits, am I right?
    Notice what Paul says about the anointed gifts in the Body of Christ;
    Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same[b] Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. 1 Cor 12:4-11
    “for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you”  Matt 10:20  Jesus is speaking to the apostles who make up the foundation of the Temple of God, and where God’s Spirit would dwell.  Eph 2:20-22  Jesus is the vine, God is the “vinedresser”.  The anointed who remain in him, are the branches.  Holy Spirit flows from the Father to Christ, and to the branches.  John 15:1-4
    “ Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.  That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. 2 Tim 1:13
    “Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.”  John 14:23
    "If I am not doing my Father's works, don't believe me. "But if I am doing them and you don't believe me, believe the works. This way you will know and understand that the Father is in me and I in the Father."  John 10:37,38
     “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.  John 17:20-23
    Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. John 17:17
    “This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.” 1 John 5:6
    “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:23,24
    It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63
    When Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life”, it is through the Holy Spirit of God that is also within Christ, who is the Way to God  - and God is Truth and Life.
     “And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”  1 Cor 6:11
    John answered them all, "I baptize you with water, but one who is more powerful than I am is coming. I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.  Luke 3:16
    These scriptures also give us this indication.  1 Cor 6:11; John 20:22; 14:16; 3:16; Luke 3:16; Acts 1:5
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”  John 1:1
    Can you see the oneness of God and Christ; in Spirit, Truth, Life, Word, as well as those who must also speak in God’s Spirit of Truth and Life?  I threw a lot of scriptures at you, but hopefully we can reach the agreement that God’s Spirit is the same spirit that is in Christ. 
    I believe there is a limitation to the number of “living stones” making up the Temple/Body of Christ, because of Zech 4:6-10:
    So he answered and said to me:
    “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:
    ‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
    Says the Lord of hosts.
    7 ‘Who are you, O great mountain?
    Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain!
    And he shall bring forth the capstone
    With shouts of “Grace, grace to it!”’”
     Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying:
    9 “The hands of Zerubbabel
    Have laid the foundation of this temple;
    His hands shall also finish it.
    Then you will know
    That the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you.
    10 For who has despised the day of small things?
    For these seven rejoice to see
    The plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
    They are the eyes of the Lord,
    Which scan to and fro throughout the whole earth.”   (Rev 11:1-7)
    These are prophetic words referring to the God’s Temple built on the Body of Christ.  The “capstone” is the last remnant of the 144,000 anointed priesthood to complete Mt. Zion, and who make it through the Great Tribulation.   1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:9; Eph 2:20; Heb 11:10; Rev 7:15, 2 Chron 23:6; Num 3:10; Rev 5:10
    God may expand the priesthood once the Kingdom is established, for reasons we will know if that times comes. 
    God’s city was the literal Jerusualem, the Temple was the dwelling of God’s spirit. While the anointed are on earth, their “mother” or promise from God is “Jerusalem above”. Gal 4:26 When the faithful ones are sealed into the “heavens”, they become part of the Holy City, because they are symbolically, spiritually, “living stones” of the Temple of God.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 3:12
    And they are spiritual “Israel”.  The early temple arrangement was a “copy and shadow of the heavenly one”. Only the priesthood among the Israelite nations were chosen to serve in the Temple.  No longer does one’s fleshy nationality matter.  Israel becomes a spiritual nationality under a “promise”.  Heb 8:5; Rom 9:6-9; 11:25,26; 2:28,29; 1 Pet 2:9,10; Jer 31:33; Rev 7:4
    We’ve talked about this, but again, this living Temple, which is the Bride of Christ, will have its presence on earth and in heaven.  Rev 5:9,10; 21:2 Through the Holy Priesthood and Christ, God’s spirit will dwell with mankind.  Rev 21:3,4
    but I see nothing that excludes those of the first covenant from salvation.   
    I don't either.  There is still a resurrection of the "living".  Matt 22:29-32
    God had a covenant with the earthly nation of Israel, comparing it to “marriage”, which was fulfilled by Christ’s appearance on earth.  Under that marriage “contract” life was restored to earthly creation – Christ was the “second Adam”.  Isa 62:4
    Under the fulfilled promised New Covenant, further life will come through Christ in his role as “father” and the 144,000 Bride. Isa 9:6 The “woman” in Revelation gives “birth” to this promise of further life by those anointed ones “laboring” individually to fulfill the promise.  But once fulfilled, no labor is experienced when the rest of God’s children are brought into the Kingdom. 
    She can be considered a “desolate” woman/promise in the time of the end because of Satan’s intent on devouring her, captivating the anointed ones with the delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12  She is consumed by lies, affliction and oppression; thus, only a remnant returns to God and is saved.  Jer 3:14; 31:7; Luke 17:34-37; Matt 24:28; Rev 11:8; Jer 31:7; Isa 48:20; Matt 24:14, Ezek 34:14; Matt 24:16; Ezek 36:8 
    But even through the lifetime of each anointed one, they “labor” to resist Satan’s afflictions that come upon them.1 Pet 5:8,9  When the “capstone” is in place and Satan is destroyed, the fulfilled “woman”/promise is a reality, bringing forth children without labor. The 144,000/Bride are the materialization, the evidence of that promise.
    There was a remnant saved from the physical nation of Israel, and a remnant of “spiritual Israel” during the time of the end.  Rom 9:22-29; Rev 12:17; 20:7-9; Luke 17:31-37
    “For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. (144,000/Bride)  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.”
    These children also, become “Israel” fulfilling the promise to Abraham. 
    In Isa 54:11-13 you can see the reference to God’s Temple of “living stones”, with the foundation built on the apostles and prophets within the Body of Christ.  Rev 21:10-14; Eph 2:20
     
     
     
     
  14. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Cognitionis in Witness' view of the GB   
    Hi @Shiwiii,
    I haven’t read your latest comments, but as I said I wanted to try again to comment on your initial thoughts.
    Your words:  “So if one has the spirit of Jesus within them, then they are heirs/sons/daughters/children of God. Now I would make the assumption here that you would agree, since you also state you are anointed. Is this anointing of the Holy Spirit or of the Spirit of the Son (Jesus)? Is it the same? if not, why not”
    Here is what I wrote in my first response:
    There is only one spirit that gives life from God and Christ (John 6:63); only one spirit that brings us to truth, (1 Cor 2:12) but the way we receive Holy spirit can differ, but it always reaches the heart.   In the anointed ones, the Holy Spirit from God dwells within them.  1 Cor 6:19; John 14:17; Matt 10:20; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16
    “Does these scriptures have a limited number of participants who can belong to Christ Jesus? I don't see any. So those who have the Spirit of Jesus within them are called heirs according to Galatians 4.”
    The priesthood has limited number that God will determine, yet, why would he limit those children that are “born” when the New Covenant is fulfilled?
    Is this the two class system? Is this the heavenly vs the earthly destination? Lets keep looking.
    I don’t look at it as a “two class system”.  Jesus fulfilled both promise covenants with the nation of Israel and Abraham. The law covenant with the nation of Israel is symbolized by Hagar, “in slavery with her children” and “born in the manner of flesh”, descendants of Abraham.
     When Jesus died, the New Covenant was established.  It became a symbolic promise of life with Jesus being the first recipient. 1 Cor 15:20,23  Spiritual “Israel” (“Sarah of God”), spiritual “Jerusalem”  - the anointed ones, are now under a covenant/promise with God , the New Covenant. Rom 2:29; 1Pet 3:6; Gal 3:29; 6:15,16; Heb 11:10,13,16; Rev 21:2 This covenant is under the “free woman”, (free from the written law), and through the symbolic “Isaac” – Christ.  Rom 1:6; 8:2; 8:17; 11:18; 12:23;  1 Cor 15:45; Gal 3:14
    “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
        break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
    For the children of the desolate one will be more
        than those of the one who has a husband.”
    This occurs when the “woman”/ “New Covenant” is fulfilled by the full number of faithful priests/Temple/”New Jerusalem”/Bride (they are all the same), when they are sealed. We know the purpose of this promise is to bring forth seed, which is the “144,000”/Bride, completing the heavenly Temple. Zech 4:7 Christ began the Temple as the cornerstone, with the apostles and prophets comprising the foundation.  Each anointed one is a “living stone”; if faithful and obedient, they are added/sealed into the Temple forever.   That is the first step toward the fulfillment of the next “promise”, God’s Kingdom and the rest of Abraham’s offspring.  Can you see how the union of the Bride (Sarah) with Christ brings forth more children – without the pain and suffering that the 144,000 had to endure in order to be sanctified?  Rev 12:2
     
     
  15. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in Watchtower and the Great Crowd Doctrine   
    The current understanding being promoted by the "Watchtower" is that the "Great Crowd" of (Rev 7:9-14) is the "earthly" group of redeemed mankind, which make it through the Great Tribulation .
    However, is there something here that we have missed?  Or have we been deliberately misled? After all who is misleading the entire inhabited earth? (Rev 12:9) 
    Jesus said if possible even the chosen ones. (Mt 24:24) (Mark 13:22) 
    Jesus said the truth will set you free. (John 8:32)  We need to know what is true and what is not.  It is of utmost importance. 
    The bible says “Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar” (Romans 3:4)
    Jesus and his Father would not want us to believe a lie. Although many feel we should wait on God to rid us of lies (as if our believing them, are His fault), God Himself does not ask us to wallow in the untrue doctrines of men.    
    However, he does not remove our free will. He allows leaders who choose to mislead others, as well as followers who choose to be mislead. 

    The Father is a God of Truth.   (John 17:17)    Jesus never taught that it is finer to surrender loyalty to the truth, in favor of keeping unity and peace at all cost with those who prefer to cling to errors and traditions.  He clung to God's word, defying the authority of his time even at the cost of his life.
    Should we be loyal to, in harmony with, and in subjection to any religious leaders, at the cost of Truth? 
     An anointed one recently showed me that the Great Crowd described in Revelation (Rev.7:9) may actually be the “Remnant” of sealed anointed ones who make it through the Great Tribulation.  
    I put a link "Who is the Great Crowd"  written by this anointed one.  
    (It is a more in-depth article) 
    The link is located later in my article. 
     Also... this is not the first time that (Revelation 7:9) came under scrutiny.  
    At the end of this article please see what happened in 1980.

            Some misconceptions are revealed over time, for instance in 1925 there was a public talk entitled “Millions now living will Never Die”.  That was later changed to “May” never die for obvious reasons.  If that talk were to be given today it would be:
     “ Millions then  living… are now dead ”.      Truth be told.
    Other strongly entrenched things may need a deeper investigation in the scriptures (Hebrews 4:12)
    This may be the case with who really is the Great Crowd.  (Re 7:9)
    The New World Translation at (Revelation 7:9) reads like this:  “After these things I saw, and, look! A great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes…”
    We are told that these ones are the earthly class who are not anointed, because no man can number them, and because the Watchtower says that the number of anointed ones totals 144,000. ..A definite number.  But is this enough of an explanation? Should there be more scriptural evidence?
    Are there any scriptures describing the anointed that fits in with the description listed in (Revelation 7:9)? 
    Yes there are.
    However, before we take a look at those scriptures, can any man (or woman) answer this question?
    How many persons make up the “remnant” of sealed anointed ones, during the last days?  (Those sealed anointed ones who come out of the Great Tribulation)
    Is any man able to number that?     The “remnant” is by definition the “left-over” ones, or the“remaining ones” of her seed (Rev 12:17).  How many make up the remnant??? 
    So it can be said that “no man is able to number” the size of the remnant.  It could be a great crowd.

    Let’s look at those scriptures now:
      (Revelation 19:1, 4, 6 7 8)  Here in heaven, twice it is said of those in heaven... a… “Voice of agreat crowd  ” was heard.
     (New World Translation)
      (Revelation 5:9, 10)  “…you bought persons out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” (NWT)...  (again, referring to the 144,000).
      (Revelation 3:4, 5) speaks of the 144,000 anointed ones having “white outer garments” “white ones.”   At (Revelation 19:14) the armies are clothed in white, clean, fine linen. (NWT) 
    Revelation 17:14 shows that the army riding with Jesus are his chosen faithful ones:
    New Living Translation

    Together they will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them because he is Lord of all lords and King of all kings. And his called and chosen and faithful ones will be with him."
    (Re 19:8)…The bride of the lamb is said to be arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen…(again speaking of the 144,000 anointed ones).
    Other scriptures of interest concerning clean white garments, or robes are 
    (Mark 16:5; Luke 9:29; 24:4;  John 20:12; Acts 1:10)
    But what about the sealed anointed being dressed in ...
    “white robes”... can we be more specific?
    Why yes.  In his ongoing vision, just before John sees this great crowd in... 
    (Re 7:9) dressed in “white robes” he saw the following:
     (Revelation 6:9, 10,) (Re 6:11)… “And a white “robe” was given to each of them.
    So there it is…the description fits like a glove. 
     A great crowd… that no man is able to number,
    Out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,
    Standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes.

    How can the Great Crowd be anointed ones, despite the fact that we can not "number" them?
    If 144,000 is the total number of the anointed, and the anointed that come through the Great Tribulation can not be numbered; it is also possible that the Great Crowd is PART of the total number. How big is that part? Apparently, no one can say.
    It is like the Great Crowd is a piece of a whole pie. How big is the slice? No one can say.
     
    Here is some supporting research done by the group that had scrutinized the doctrine about the Great Crowd earlier back in 1980.
    Revelation 7:9 came under scrutiny  Back in 1980.    Quite a few of our brothers, highly respected members of our Watchtower Headquarters in Brooklyn N.Y. were disfellowshipped on charges of “Apostasy”.  Even a member of the Governing Body was forcibly removed and disfellowshipped.  The Governing Body would not re-consider the “doctrine” even though the scruitiny is based on solid evidence from the Holy Scriptures.
    Here is some of their research concerning the Greek words used in Revelation as it refers to the location of the “Great Crowd”:
    Naos: Divine Habitation, inner temple sanctuary…the Most Holy.
    Naos refers to the inner sanctuary of the temple complex which included the Holy and Holy of Holies (or Most Holy).
    Hieron is the Greek word for the entire temple complex with all its sub-structures and courts.
    The distinction between these two terms is well defined in the Watchtower of August 15, 1960. Explaining the second chapter of John (which describes the presence of the money changers and all the animals which were being sold in the temple), page 493, paragraph two of the article entitled "The Temple of the Apostles' Time" says:
    What kind of building could this be that had room for all this traffic? The fact is that this temple was not just one building but a series of structures of which the temple sanctuary was the center. In the original tongue this is made quite clear, the Scripture writers distinguishing between the two by the use of the words hieron and naos. Hieron referred to the entire temple grounds, whereas naos applied to the temple structure itself, the successor of the tabernacle in the wilderness. Thus John tells that Jesus found all this traffic in the hieron.
    It was from the courts of the outer temple (hieron--not naos) that Jesus drove the money changers. (See Matt. 21:12, Mark 11:15, Luke 19:45 and John 2:14, 15 in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation.)

    It was the entire temple (hieron--not naos) that was destroyed as a judgment from God. (SeeMatt. 24:1,2, Mark 13:1-3 and Luke 21:5,6 in the Kingdom Interlinear.)
    The earthly courtyard is located "outside of  the temple [sanctuary] (naos)" while the "great crowd" of Revelation 7:15 is described as being inside the temple sanctuary or naos. 

    It is evident that throughout the book of Revelation the term naos is used repeatedly to refer exclusively to the innermost part of the temple, the heavenly sanctuary in its figurative application

    Revelation 11:2 says in the New World Translation:
    But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple [sanctuary] (naos), cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations ["Gentiles"--AV, NEB, Moffat], and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

    Another point of importance is the fact that, at Revelation 7:9, 15, the "great crowd" is said to be"before the throne" of God.
    As the Society's publications have pointed out, the Greek word translated "before" in this text isenopion and it literally means "in [the] sight [of]." (For example on page 123 of the book, Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand [1988])
    This Greek word is used repeatedly throughout the book of Revelation to locate objects and persons "before" or "in the sight of" God in heaven.
    Looking up the following verses in The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scripturesmakes this clear:
    Revelation 1:4
    -
    "Seven spirits that are before (enopion) his [God's] throne"
    Revelation 4:5
    -
    "Seven lamps of fire burning before (enopion) the throne [of God]"
    Revelation 4:6
    -
    "And before (enopion) the throne [of God] there is, as it were, a glassy sea like crystal."
    Revelation 4:10
    -
    "The twenty-four elders fall down before (enopion) the One seated upon the throne..., and they cast their crowns before (enopion) the throne"
    Revelation 7:9
    -
    "A great crowd, ... standing before (enopion) the throne and before (enopion)the Lamb"
    Revelation 7:11
    -
    "And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell upon their faces before (enopion) the throne and worshiped God"
    Revelation 7:15
    -
    "That is why they [the great crowd] are before (enopion) the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service"
    Revelation 8:3
    -
    "And another angel arrived and stood at the altar, having ... incense ... to offer ... with the prayers of all the holy ones upon the golden altar that wasbefore (enopion) the throne."
    Revelation 9:13
    -
    "And I heard one voice out of the horns of the golden altar that is before (enopion) God."
    Revelation 11:16
    -
    "And the twenty-four elders who were seated before (enopion) God"
    Revelation 14:3
    -
    "And they [the 144,000] are singing as if a new song before (enopion) the throne and before (enopion) the four living creatures and the elders"
     
    Since these other things are considered to be “in heaven”, it stands to reason that the “Great Crowd” can also be “In heaven” and therefore could very well be the anointed invited ones and not the earthly class of humans. 


    This coupled with the scriptural evidence cited above in my article should be sufficient for any reasonable person to see that it is possible that the Great Crowd of (Revelation 7:9) can very well be the remnant of anointed ones who make it through the Great Tribulation in the last days.
    Obadiah Doxsey 
     
     
     
  16. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    Don't mean to confuse the issue; I was agreeing with you that the NIV translation was different than the NWT...you said,
    compare with this translation; "For the wages of sin is death, NIV) not the same? Â 
  17. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    Just to heat up a little about; sin, ransom, dead.
     "What Does the Bible Really Teach?", chapter five about Ransom, JWorg library quotes;
     "It is a gift from God to mankind... Clearly, then, when Adam disobeyed God and was condemned to death, he paid a very high price. His sin cost him his perfect human life with all its blessings. (Genesis 3:17-19) Sadly, Adam lost this precious life not only for himself but also for his future offspring. God’s Word says: “Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” (Romans 5:12). ...The idea of a ransom basically involves two things. First, a ransom is the price paid to ...Second, a ransom is the price that covers, or pays, the cost of something....By sacrificing, or giving up, his perfect life in flawless obedience to God, Jesus paid the price for Adam’s sin. Jesus thus brought hope to Adam’s offspring.—Romans 5:19; 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22......
     
    WHAT THE RANSOM CAN MEAN FOR YOU
    14, 15. To receive “the forgiveness of our sins,” what must we do?
    1)The forgiveness of sins
    2)A clean conscience before God. 
    3)The hope of everlasting life on a paradise earth.
    NOW LET GET SOME ISSUE to comment   
    Rom. 6:23 NWT say; "For the wages sin pays is death,..." and JW org explained this verse that when human died he/she are free of every sin he/she made while was living.    (compare with this translation; "For the wages of sin is death, NIV) not the same  
    By this WT explanation Jesus ransom came to be unnecessary because particular person pay for sins, that had made, by own death. But as it said in "Teaching book", Jesus paid the price for Adam’s sin. By this then we come to point that our present sins would not be covered by Jesus sacrifice, because Jesus paid price only for Adam's sin and not for sins we made after acknowledge and accepting Jesus, because as some JW members had said in connection to Bible verse in Heb. 10.. How would be paid price for sin if person have not died?
    For example, JW members survived Armageddon and as sinful imperfect humans start to living in Paradise. But they are still imperfect and doing sin. Who covered their sins?? We still have Romans 6:23-  "For the wages sin pays is death".  Heb 10:26, 27 said, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,  but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." BUT again if we died even in that state of "deliberately sinning" as imperfect humans, than our dead will/would cover all sins we done, because after you die you are free of all your sins - Rom 6:23 again. And by that you can wait in grave for for second, third, fourth chance :)))))))
    But here is something else what we can find in Bible, so please meditate about and try to explain what sins will be, would be covered by death of this people and under what circumstances, and when and for whom get, take benefits from the deaths of this people ??????? -Proverbs 11:8; 21:18 and Isaiah 42:1-3    
    P.S. Additional verses: Isaiah 43:3; Ex. 30:12; Num. 3:46-51; Ps. 49:7; Romans 3:24 
  18. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    Did this GB member suffer from persecution at the hands of his own people, as Jesus did?  John 15:20; Matt 5:11,12; Luke 12:52,53  Did he suffer for his testimony of Christ or because he was part of the Watchtower organization? Rev  11:7; 12:17   Obviously, those in the Watchtower at that time period were thrown to a different “wolf” in Satan’s world.  Don’t you find it rather ironic that the organization, which compares itself to the early Israelite nation, promises safety in the organization when no real safety exists?  Yet, with the nation of Israel, whenever God’s people followed his laws closely, they were protected from marauders, and God provided all of their needs.  Isa 48:18
    It is a lie to convince people that on the one hand, they are compared to God’s early nation, and they are taught that salvation is only through the organization; yet, on the other hand, they must fight for their worldly rights and suffer for it.  Since they suffer, which is the truth?   Is the organization similar to God’s nation of Israel, or are its leaders flying by the seat of their pants? 
    Just as Jesus was persecuted by his own people, the type of persecution the anointed and brethren suffer when speaking out against lies, is from their own people, which thoroughly fulfills Matt 24 and so many other scriptures. 
    Refinement has nothing to do with sacrificing one’s previous life goals to become a GB member, which position provides all one’s needs. Refinement is directed at cleansing the heart from all forms of hypocrisy, false prophesy and “new light”, which is another term for “lie”. Rom 8:16,17; Col 1:24; 6:5; 8:36; Mal 3:1-3; 1 Cor 3:13; Rev 3:19
    The Bible has always followed the history God’s nation.  Surely, you must wonder why the Watchtower has turned the end time fulfillment  away from God’s people, to Satan’s world.  Why the change?  Satan is bent on killing the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”.  Would a god of deception; an angel of light; do so in full recognizable view of the victim? Or would he point out a scapegoat as the cause?   There is no “war” against the “saints” in Satan’s world, but war happens when the “saints”, as well as their brethren, defend God’s word and reject lies in the organization.  Rev 13:6,7,15; 12:17
     
    Any JW who may say there are no lies taught over the years of the organization, has fallen completely for Satan’s delusion.  2 Thess 2:9-12
     
  19. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Arauna in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”  Gal 3:26-29
    You are aware that the GB have taken the “prominent” position over their fellow slaves, don’t you?  You do realize that their fellow “slaves” are to answer to them, and not directly to their appointed Master, Christ?  So you see, anointed ones are to “wash the feet” of the GB.  In fact, every JW “washes the feet” of not only the GB, but also the elder body through their expected obedience to them, and servitude toward the organization.  Matt 6:24; Rom 14:4
    Acts 17:24
    Incredible. 
    Watchtower 02/7/1 pp. 9-14    Today, Zion is represented on earth by the remaining ones of “the Israel of God,” the international congregation of spirit-anointed Christians, who have the hope of ruling with Christ in heaven.
    To clarify, every authentic anointed one is Zion, God’s dwelling and Temple as the Body of Christ.  John 2:19-21; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22; Col 2:11,12; Eph 2:6; Ps 132:7-9,13,14
    Unless they choose to deny Christ, as has the “wicked slave” who beats down his fellow slaves using the “man of lawlessness”/false priesthood/elder body.   Matt 24:48-51
    “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.  And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.  By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.  2 Pet 2:1-3
    God does not bless “foreigners”/”Gentiles” who replace his anointed priesthood; “sitting” in for them, or standing over them, demanding their obedience. 2 Chron 23:6; Ezek 44:6-9
    It is a “disgusting thing” – an “abomination standing in the holy place”.  Yet, the Watchtower has attempted to change scripture to support this abomination.
    NKJV for Ezek 44:6-9 -  Say to rebellious Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Enough of your detestable practices, people of Israel!  In addition to all your other detestable practices, you brought foreigners uncircumcised in heart and flesh into my sanctuary, desecrating my temple while you offered me food, fat and blood, and you broke my covenant. 8 Instead of carrying out your duty in regard to my holy things, YOU put others in charge of my sanctuary. 9 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites."
    Now, read the NWT:
    "And you must say to Rebelliousness, to the house of Israel, "This is what the sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, "That is enough of you because of all your detestable things, O house of Israel, when you bring in the foreigners uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, in order to come to be in my sanctuary so as to profane it, even my house, when you present my bread, fat and blood, while they keep breaking my covenant on account of all your detestable things. Neither have you taken care of the obligation of my holy things, nor would you post [others] as caretakers of my obligation in my sanctuary for yourselves. This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: "No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, may come into my sanctuary, that is, any foreigner who is in the midst of the sons of Israel."
    I hope you can see the devious ploy of the Watchtower to support their elder body; but by doing so, they contradicted their own intention.  Firstly, they say the priests brought foreigners into the sanctuary, then it is state they didn’t “post others as caretakers”, as if they needed to.  The NKJV version shows that the sin was “foreigners” were brought into the sanctuary and put in charge of the priestly duties. 
    The “others” in God’s sanctuary today, is the “Gentile” elder body, replacing “Israel” – replacing the authentic priesthood and removing the “daily sacrifice”.    Rom 2:28,29; Dan 8:12;7:25;11:31;12:11; Matt:24,25; Rev 13:7; Matt:24,25; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 11:1,2; 6:14,15;17:14  
    Your words support the “disgusting thing” of Matt 24:15
    For I will restore health to you
    And heal you of your wounds,’ says the Lord,
    ‘Because they called you an outcast saying:
    “This is Zion;
    No one seeks her.”’  Jer 30:20
     Then Nebuchadnezzar, in rage and fury, gave the command to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. So they brought these men before the king. 14 Nebuchadnezzar spoke, saying to them, “Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the gold image which I have set up? 15 Now if you are ready at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, and you fall down and worship the image which I have made, good! But if you do not worship, you shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace. And who is the god who will deliver you from my hands?”
    16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego answered and said to the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. 17 If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king. 18 But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up.”
     Then Nebuchadnezzar was full of fury, and the expression on his face changed toward Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. He spoke and commanded that they heat the furnace seven times more than it was usually heated. 20 And he commanded certain mighty men of valor who were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, and cast them into the burning fiery furnace. 21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their trousers, their turbans, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. 22 Therefore, because the king’s command was urgent, and the furnace exceedingly hot, the flame of the fire killed those men who took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. 23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
    24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”
    They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.”
    25 “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”
    Nebuchadnezzar spoke, saying, “Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, who sent His Angel and delivered His servants who trusted in Him, and they have frustrated the king’s word, and yielded their bodies, that they should not serve nor worship any god except their own God!   Dan chapter 3
    “Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns,[b] and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 
    So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
    Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, (Matt 24:15; 1 Cor 3:16,17) and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  Rev 13:1,4,6-8
    “They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city (ZION!). And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”  Rev 20:9,10
    I am defending God, Christ, our High Priest and his priesthood, (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9) which is Zion, as scripture dictates.  What are you defending, an organization built in Satan’s world, and a delusion? 2 Thess 2:9-12
    “For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”  Heb 4:12
     
     
  20. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”  Gal 3:26-29
    You are aware that the GB have taken the “prominent” position over their fellow slaves, don’t you?  You do realize that their fellow “slaves” are to answer to them, and not directly to their appointed Master, Christ?  So you see, anointed ones are to “wash the feet” of the GB.  In fact, every JW “washes the feet” of not only the GB, but also the elder body through their expected obedience to them, and servitude toward the organization.  Matt 6:24; Rom 14:4
    Acts 17:24
    Incredible. 
    Watchtower 02/7/1 pp. 9-14    Today, Zion is represented on earth by the remaining ones of “the Israel of God,” the international congregation of spirit-anointed Christians, who have the hope of ruling with Christ in heaven.
    To clarify, every authentic anointed one is Zion, God’s dwelling and Temple as the Body of Christ.  John 2:19-21; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22; Col 2:11,12; Eph 2:6; Ps 132:7-9,13,14
    Unless they choose to deny Christ, as has the “wicked slave” who beats down his fellow slaves using the “man of lawlessness”/false priesthood/elder body.   Matt 24:48-51
    “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.  And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.  By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.  2 Pet 2:1-3
    God does not bless “foreigners”/”Gentiles” who replace his anointed priesthood; “sitting” in for them, or standing over them, demanding their obedience. 2 Chron 23:6; Ezek 44:6-9
    It is a “disgusting thing” – an “abomination standing in the holy place”.  Yet, the Watchtower has attempted to change scripture to support this abomination.
    NKJV for Ezek 44:6-9 -  Say to rebellious Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Enough of your detestable practices, people of Israel!  In addition to all your other detestable practices, you brought foreigners uncircumcised in heart and flesh into my sanctuary, desecrating my temple while you offered me food, fat and blood, and you broke my covenant. 8 Instead of carrying out your duty in regard to my holy things, YOU put others in charge of my sanctuary. 9 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites."
    Now, read the NWT:
    "And you must say to Rebelliousness, to the house of Israel, "This is what the sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, "That is enough of you because of all your detestable things, O house of Israel, when you bring in the foreigners uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, in order to come to be in my sanctuary so as to profane it, even my house, when you present my bread, fat and blood, while they keep breaking my covenant on account of all your detestable things. Neither have you taken care of the obligation of my holy things, nor would you post [others] as caretakers of my obligation in my sanctuary for yourselves. This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: "No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, may come into my sanctuary, that is, any foreigner who is in the midst of the sons of Israel."
    I hope you can see the devious ploy of the Watchtower to support their elder body; but by doing so, they contradicted their own intention.  Firstly, they say the priests brought foreigners into the sanctuary, then it is state they didn’t “post others as caretakers”, as if they needed to.  The NKJV version shows that the sin was “foreigners” were brought into the sanctuary and put in charge of the priestly duties. 
    The “others” in God’s sanctuary today, is the “Gentile” elder body, replacing “Israel” – replacing the authentic priesthood and removing the “daily sacrifice”.    Rom 2:28,29; Dan 8:12;7:25;11:31;12:11; Matt:24,25; Rev 13:7; Matt:24,25; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 11:1,2; 6:14,15;17:14  
    Your words support the “disgusting thing” of Matt 24:15
    For I will restore health to you
    And heal you of your wounds,’ says the Lord,
    ‘Because they called you an outcast saying:
    “This is Zion;
    No one seeks her.”’  Jer 30:20
     Then Nebuchadnezzar, in rage and fury, gave the command to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. So they brought these men before the king. 14 Nebuchadnezzar spoke, saying to them, “Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the gold image which I have set up? 15 Now if you are ready at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, and you fall down and worship the image which I have made, good! But if you do not worship, you shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace. And who is the god who will deliver you from my hands?”
    16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego answered and said to the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. 17 If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king. 18 But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up.”
     Then Nebuchadnezzar was full of fury, and the expression on his face changed toward Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. He spoke and commanded that they heat the furnace seven times more than it was usually heated. 20 And he commanded certain mighty men of valor who were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, and cast them into the burning fiery furnace. 21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their trousers, their turbans, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. 22 Therefore, because the king’s command was urgent, and the furnace exceedingly hot, the flame of the fire killed those men who took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego. 23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
    24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”
    They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.”
    25 “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”
    Nebuchadnezzar spoke, saying, “Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, who sent His Angel and delivered His servants who trusted in Him, and they have frustrated the king’s word, and yielded their bodies, that they should not serve nor worship any god except their own God!   Dan chapter 3
    “Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns,[b] and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 
    So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
    Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, (Matt 24:15; 1 Cor 3:16,17) and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  Rev 13:1,4,6-8
    “They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city (ZION!). And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”  Rev 20:9,10
    I am defending God, Christ, our High Priest and his priesthood, (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9) which is Zion, as scripture dictates.  What are you defending, an organization built in Satan’s world, and a delusion? 2 Thess 2:9-12
    “For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”  Heb 4:12
     
     
  21. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Arauna in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    I don’t know what the person you mention thought he would accomplish by going back into the organization, or even how he thought he could get reinstated if not through some sort of deception.  Jesus predicted we would be “thrown out of the synagogues/”congregations” by those who believe they are serving God in doing so.  Acts 9:20; 2 Cor 4:5; 1 Cor 1:22,23; Matt 10:17,18; John 16:2; Rev 13:15,16
    During an anointing the “token” of holy Spirit is put into one’s heart, which allows them to see truth. 2 Cor 1:21,22 1 Cor 13:9,10  Individually; yet, as a collective Body, Holy Spirit avails knowledge more abundantly through all. 2 Cor 3:4,5; 1 Cor 6:19; 12:22 We will see this in completeness when the gathering of the Bride/the Temple is finished. It cannot be comprehend it in the organization, since they are told to remain separate from one another, not even to study the Bible together.  Surely, that should make one question why this is so, especially since an elder body works together freely.  God’s anointed ones are “scattered” in this way deliberately by Satan, since he knows the power of the holy ones; he knows that it is through their connection with Christ, that he will be destroyed.  Rev 12:7-9  Everything he can do to keep them apart, quiet and in submission to the GB and elders, buys him time. 
    But why the organization.
    During this time of the end, Satan must make the deflecting offer from following Christ completely (not through a person or an organization John 4:21-24) as enticing as possible, well-cloaked as “truth”, “different” than any deceitful tactic he has ever used against God’s people.  Dan 7:23; 2 Pet 2:1-3 He baits with basic pure truth, which the organization initially offers. Rev 8:10,11 God allows it; he allows Satan to do this, but he has given us its identity in Revelation and through many scriptures, if we seek out its understanding.   The prophetic words of Jesus, the earlier prophets, and the apostles can help discern the trap.   The organization, as beautiful and as enticing as it may seem, is very close to bringing the power of the holy ones to nothing. Dan 12:7   It has been a gradual process that is reaching a climax.  The anointed remnant faces the most powerful deceitful foe to come upon any anointed one since Christ; because from them, the remaining ‘living stones’ of the Temple will be set in place as the capstone. Zech 4:7,6; 1 Cor 1:28,29  The Kingdom arrives once that is accomplished.  Their test is unique as they face the fourth beast of Daniel and Revelation’s two Beasts. 
    God never creates the deception; Satan does.  God never does the destroying, it is all from Satan and those who sell off their “inheritance”.   1 Pet 5:8; 2 Cor 2:11; Rev 12:7,15, 17; 1 Tim 4:1; Matt 24:4,5; 24,25; Heb 12:14-16
    While the Watchtower focuses on the world’s literal signs as fulfillment of the end, very few notice the symbolic signs that are affecting God’s authentic priesthood.  Very few see that the “Gentile” elder body should not “represent” the “royal priesthood”.  Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3; Ezek 44:6-9  Very few can discern that the individual sacrifices of praise in various gifts and forms of the anointed ones, have been extinguished by a “wicked slave” and its own “Body of elders”; because what the physical eye takes in, is so much grander in scope than the symbolic spiritual signs. Matt 16:2,3 This is Satan’s excelling accomplishment, to create the delusion using his worldly power; because as he said to Christ, all that is in the world “has been delivered to me”. Luke 4:6,7  He has produced a successful counterfeit, bringing literal meaning to Jesus’ words in Matt 24, including a physical earthly organization called “Zion”.
    Jesus’ own tests and trials, which were put on him by Satan, were conquered through his obedience to God, resulting in his perfect holiness. All authority, both in heaven and on earth, has now been given to him. Matt 28:18  This ignites the battle between Christ and his Truth, Satan and his lies.   His priests (Is1 a 43:10; Pet 2:5,9,10) must imitate his obedience in order to also receive their “kingly” authority.  They must become just like Christ, worthy to be his Bride, and to see God.  They must sacrifice their lives under the “New Covenant” promise of life, bringing life to the rest of God’s children through the Kingdom covenant. Rev 12:11 Through the Wt’s condemnation that one who speaks in Jesus’ name is considered spiritually “dead”, the anointed and many others, lose their “life” they had previously known in the organization, to gain eternal life in Christ.  Heb 13:10-16; John 15:20,21; Luke 9:24; 17:33
    Heb 5:8,9 – “though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered. 9 Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation”
    Heb 4:15 - For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way as we are, yet without sin.
     Phil 2:8 “he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death -- even to death on a cross.”
    Although we know how the apostles suffered for their steadfast faith, never have we seen any anointed leader in the organization suffer as Christ did.  It should make one sit up and take notice. They appear to be immune from suffering for Christ’s sake; the reason is clear through the scriptures.  Rev 13:11,12; 2 Cor 11:12-15
     The organization teaches it is the only way to achieve spiritual security, which produces a state of sleepiness among the “virgins”, just one of Jesus’ parables that can be applied to the climate the anointed and JWs live under in the organization.  Matt 25:6-13; 22:8-10
    “James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ: To the twelve tribes dispersed abroad. Greetings. 2 Consider it a great joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you experience various trials, because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its full effect, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.
    We are all having our faith tested, we are all being judged for our desire to either follow a delusion or the pureness of God’s Word in Christ. To reach the latter, we turn completely toward God during the end times by walking away from symbolic “Babylon”, the covenant/promise of death.  Isa 28:1-22
    2 Thess Chapter 2:
    Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you  not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Christ had come. (“God’s Kingdom Rules” – 1914)
    Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22     (“Representing the royal priesthood” are the elders, “standing in the “holy place” – Matt 24:15; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16)
    Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming; (John 20:22; Rev 11:1-3,6,7,18)  even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (Rev 13:13) and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn’t receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  Because of this, God sends (Luke 22:31) them a working of error, that they should believe a lie;  that they all might be judged who didn’t believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 
    The Watchtower says that Armageddon is looming, giving their interpretation of the Beasts in Revelation.  Yet, nothing in that realm of vision has attacked the “holy ones”/saints” or surrounded them, except the Watchtower.  They twist the abomination of Matt 24:15 to be “a” holy place in Christendom.  The literal fulfillment of this scripture concerned Jerusalem.  Today, it is spiritual “Jerusalem” that is under attack.  Rom 2:28,29
    It is all there, to the extreme.
    Delusion – that God says we need an earthly organization even though his Son said nowhere physically are we to worship, except in spirit and truth. John 4:24; Rev 13:11,12,14
    False prophesy – too many to mention.
    False directives – the GB has already admitted to this.
    Abusive and lying leadership – “But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers (Elder Body) of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great (GB) exercise authority over them.  Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”  Matt 20:25-28
  22. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    I don’t know what the person you mention thought he would accomplish by going back into the organization, or even how he thought he could get reinstated if not through some sort of deception.  Jesus predicted we would be “thrown out of the synagogues/”congregations” by those who believe they are serving God in doing so.  Acts 9:20; 2 Cor 4:5; 1 Cor 1:22,23; Matt 10:17,18; John 16:2; Rev 13:15,16
    During an anointing the “token” of holy Spirit is put into one’s heart, which allows them to see truth. 2 Cor 1:21,22 1 Cor 13:9,10  Individually; yet, as a collective Body, Holy Spirit avails knowledge more abundantly through all. 2 Cor 3:4,5; 1 Cor 6:19; 12:22 We will see this in completeness when the gathering of the Bride/the Temple is finished. It cannot be comprehend it in the organization, since they are told to remain separate from one another, not even to study the Bible together.  Surely, that should make one question why this is so, especially since an elder body works together freely.  God’s anointed ones are “scattered” in this way deliberately by Satan, since he knows the power of the holy ones; he knows that it is through their connection with Christ, that he will be destroyed.  Rev 12:7-9  Everything he can do to keep them apart, quiet and in submission to the GB and elders, buys him time. 
    But why the organization.
    During this time of the end, Satan must make the deflecting offer from following Christ completely (not through a person or an organization John 4:21-24) as enticing as possible, well-cloaked as “truth”, “different” than any deceitful tactic he has ever used against God’s people.  Dan 7:23; 2 Pet 2:1-3 He baits with basic pure truth, which the organization initially offers. Rev 8:10,11 God allows it; he allows Satan to do this, but he has given us its identity in Revelation and through many scriptures, if we seek out its understanding.   The prophetic words of Jesus, the earlier prophets, and the apostles can help discern the trap.   The organization, as beautiful and as enticing as it may seem, is very close to bringing the power of the holy ones to nothing. Dan 12:7   It has been a gradual process that is reaching a climax.  The anointed remnant faces the most powerful deceitful foe to come upon any anointed one since Christ; because from them, the remaining ‘living stones’ of the Temple will be set in place as the capstone. Zech 4:7,6; 1 Cor 1:28,29  The Kingdom arrives once that is accomplished.  Their test is unique as they face the fourth beast of Daniel and Revelation’s two Beasts. 
    God never creates the deception; Satan does.  God never does the destroying, it is all from Satan and those who sell off their “inheritance”.   1 Pet 5:8; 2 Cor 2:11; Rev 12:7,15, 17; 1 Tim 4:1; Matt 24:4,5; 24,25; Heb 12:14-16
    While the Watchtower focuses on the world’s literal signs as fulfillment of the end, very few notice the symbolic signs that are affecting God’s authentic priesthood.  Very few see that the “Gentile” elder body should not “represent” the “royal priesthood”.  Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3; Ezek 44:6-9  Very few can discern that the individual sacrifices of praise in various gifts and forms of the anointed ones, have been extinguished by a “wicked slave” and its own “Body of elders”; because what the physical eye takes in, is so much grander in scope than the symbolic spiritual signs. Matt 16:2,3 This is Satan’s excelling accomplishment, to create the delusion using his worldly power; because as he said to Christ, all that is in the world “has been delivered to me”. Luke 4:6,7  He has produced a successful counterfeit, bringing literal meaning to Jesus’ words in Matt 24, including a physical earthly organization called “Zion”.
    Jesus’ own tests and trials, which were put on him by Satan, were conquered through his obedience to God, resulting in his perfect holiness. All authority, both in heaven and on earth, has now been given to him. Matt 28:18  This ignites the battle between Christ and his Truth, Satan and his lies.   His priests (Is1 a 43:10; Pet 2:5,9,10) must imitate his obedience in order to also receive their “kingly” authority.  They must become just like Christ, worthy to be his Bride, and to see God.  They must sacrifice their lives under the “New Covenant” promise of life, bringing life to the rest of God’s children through the Kingdom covenant. Rev 12:11 Through the Wt’s condemnation that one who speaks in Jesus’ name is considered spiritually “dead”, the anointed and many others, lose their “life” they had previously known in the organization, to gain eternal life in Christ.  Heb 13:10-16; John 15:20,21; Luke 9:24; 17:33
    Heb 5:8,9 – “though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered. 9 Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation”
    Heb 4:15 - For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way as we are, yet without sin.
     Phil 2:8 “he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death -- even to death on a cross.”
    Although we know how the apostles suffered for their steadfast faith, never have we seen any anointed leader in the organization suffer as Christ did.  It should make one sit up and take notice. They appear to be immune from suffering for Christ’s sake; the reason is clear through the scriptures.  Rev 13:11,12; 2 Cor 11:12-15
     The organization teaches it is the only way to achieve spiritual security, which produces a state of sleepiness among the “virgins”, just one of Jesus’ parables that can be applied to the climate the anointed and JWs live under in the organization.  Matt 25:6-13; 22:8-10
    “James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ: To the twelve tribes dispersed abroad. Greetings. 2 Consider it a great joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you experience various trials, because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its full effect, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.
    We are all having our faith tested, we are all being judged for our desire to either follow a delusion or the pureness of God’s Word in Christ. To reach the latter, we turn completely toward God during the end times by walking away from symbolic “Babylon”, the covenant/promise of death.  Isa 28:1-22
    2 Thess Chapter 2:
    Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you  not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Christ had come. (“God’s Kingdom Rules” – 1914)
    Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22     (“Representing the royal priesthood” are the elders, “standing in the “holy place” – Matt 24:15; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16)
    Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming; (John 20:22; Rev 11:1-3,6,7,18)  even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (Rev 13:13) and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn’t receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  Because of this, God sends (Luke 22:31) them a working of error, that they should believe a lie;  that they all might be judged who didn’t believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 
    The Watchtower says that Armageddon is looming, giving their interpretation of the Beasts in Revelation.  Yet, nothing in that realm of vision has attacked the “holy ones”/saints” or surrounded them, except the Watchtower.  They twist the abomination of Matt 24:15 to be “a” holy place in Christendom.  The literal fulfillment of this scripture concerned Jerusalem.  Today, it is spiritual “Jerusalem” that is under attack.  Rom 2:28,29
    It is all there, to the extreme.
    Delusion – that God says we need an earthly organization even though his Son said nowhere physically are we to worship, except in spirit and truth. John 4:24; Rev 13:11,12,14
    False prophesy – too many to mention.
    False directives – the GB has already admitted to this.
    Abusive and lying leadership – “But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers (Elder Body) of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great (GB) exercise authority over them.  Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”  Matt 20:25-28
  23. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    “Fine fruit” refers to teachings from the mouth of anointed ones. Mal 2:7 It doesn’t refer to numbers or physical accomplishments but to pure teachings following the laws of Christ, but you may already know this.  Matt 7:24; John 6:57,63
    Examine just two teachings of the GB:
    Wt. 1968 May 1 p.272
    "Some of the generation that discerned the beginning of the time of the end in 1914 will still be alive on earth to witness the end of this present wicked system of things at the battle of Armageddon.-Rev. 16:14, 16." 
    Is this what you believe today?  Or has this piece of “fruit” rotted and fallen off the tree?
    Wt. 1966,10/15 pp.629,631  "It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home!" .. Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! 
    God does not make false promises; playing with lives through men’s doctrines, and filling their mind with false hopes. Jer 23:26;14:14  The GB use the excuse, ‘Jesus didn’t promise perfect food’.  According to scripture, he gave us a precise illustration to discern a good “tree” from a bad “tree” showing us that yes, he did promise perfect food. 
     “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly (within the heart) they are ferocious wolves.  By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.  A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.  Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
    Thornbushes and thistles are weeds, are they not?  Jesus is saying those who offer “bad fruit” are false prophets - weeds. 
     "Let both grow together until the harvest. At harvest time I'll tell the reapers: Gather the weeds first and tie them in bundles to burn them, but collect the wheat in my barn.'   Matt 13:30
    Each failed teaching by the Wt’s leaders/GB is bad fruit, which should tell you that they are no longer “part of the vine” of Christ, even if they appear “lamb-like” (Rev 13:11)   Jesus’ teachings of life should fill the heart, causing those anointed that are part of the vine, to also speak words of life.
    “ Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.” John 15:4 (Luke 8:15)
     “If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.  This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.” John 15:7
    Can you see this?  Can you see that failed teachings are rotten fruit, not to be associated whatsoever with Christ, or excused by either Christ or God?  Phil 2:16; John 5:24 
    “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.”  John 15:16 (James 1:21)
    Watchtower’s historic and recent teachings are full of bad fruit!
    It is the image of the organization as “spirit-directed” that is revered/worshiped; yet, with the work of man’s hands, the image is physically sustained.  It is taught it has been given divine authority – the path to salvation.  It is called “Jehovah’s arrangement”, proposing that the elder body represents and demonstrates the physical part of this image of authority over the anointed and brethren.  Rev 13:14-18; Isa 2:8
    It is considered to be “Zion”. 
    Wt. 15/7/15  pp. 7-11 – “Regardless of how long we have been in the truth, we must tell others about Jehovah’s organization. The existence of a spiritual paradise in the midst of a wicked, corrupt, and loveless world is a modern-day miracle! The wonders about Jehovah’s organization, or “Zion,” and the truth about the spiritual paradise must be joyfully passed on “to future generations.”
    “Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,  and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.”  Heb 8:1,2
    Can you point to a scripture that describes Zion as an earthly organization? 
    Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 6:19;  Eph 2:20-22; Heb 3:6; Rev 3:12;14:1
    You should be able to discern from scriptures that Zion is God’s “Temple”/Holy City/sanctuary, and encompasses the faithful anointed. Rev 14:5
     No photo needed.  Their “fruit” tells all.  
    “The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the Governing Body, they are in fact following their leader, Christ.  Wt 9/15/2010”
     “Of course, those taking the lead in the earthly part of God’s organization are not perfect—but neither was Moses.”  Watchtower 11/4/15 pp. 3-5
      Moses, a prophet of God.  Christ, the Son of God.  And then we have the GB professing not to be inspired, who stumble over their own doctrine, and who cover errors in direction by putting the blame on Jesus.
    Rom 14:4; Gal 1:10; Acts 5:29; Luke 16:13; Matt 15:8,9
     
     
     
     
  24. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    Many thanks again, to @James Thomas Rook Jr. for showing such tolerance.  
    You are right, Zion is the heavenly “New Jerusalem”, but maybe you didn’t read what the Watchtower stated – about Zion being the organization?  How have I twisted Watchtower’s own words?   Wt. 15/7/15  pp. 7-11
    Yes, I am doing that right now, but not counting my time.  Are you? I believe I have been all over the public “map”, called “Jehovah’s Witnesses”.  Rev 11:1-3
    Shouldn’t a good “witness” be one that testifies in truth?  What good is “preaching” if it is laced with lies?  If the Catholics came to your door preaching the trinity, how would you feel? Would you believe them? 
    If, while in your “preaching work”, you meet the same person at the door that initially received the Awake! magazine on 1975* from your very hands, ten years prior; how do you think THEY would feel about your “preaching work” and the “spiritually nourishing food” you pass on from the “faithful slave”?  Do you expect them to receive you warmly?  Should they overlook a false prophesy as JWs are cajoled into doing, convincing you to believe it is right with God?  Jer 5:31; 12:6; Rom 16:18
    Yes, would you like me to give you a link?  It is called the anointed Body of Christ – those anointed who have been spiritually “killed” – disfellowshipped -  for their testimony of Christ, not for an organization.  There are many brethren who have joined them.   Luke 17:31-17; Rev 12:6
    Yes, in truth, not under the guise that it was “born”in 1914, only to be followed by “birth pangs”.  Matt 24:8  Truly, an unnatural phenomena.
    I don’t believe you have read much that I have written here, which will give you more information on these questions. 
    One thing I don’t do is accept men and their rules who “guide” the sheep by their rulebook, and not the Bible.
     “If you died with Christ to the elements of this world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations:  “Don’t handle, don’t taste, don’t touch”?  All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines. 23 Although these have a reputation for wisdom by promoting self-made religion, false humility, and severe treatment of the body, they are not of any value in curbing self-indulgence.”  Col 2:20-23
    They are self-serving; people take pride in a title they receive by following men’s regulations; and with it, are special privileges given them.  This is the basis of the Watchtower’s religion. 
    Like this one?  “Come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation”  Wt 81/11/15
    Or, is it this one?  “We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry – be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization.”  Wt. 90/11/1
     
    Have you ever wondered  why Jesus told his disciples not to go from “house to house”, a command by Jesus which the Watchtower completely ignores? Luke 10:7 The soldiers of Herod were bent on killing the promised seed, the “firstborn”, Jesus Christ; the most efficient way was go “house to house” killing all the firstborn males, whomever they were.  Matt 2:16-18    
    Where are the “firstfruits”/anointed ones and many others now found, but in the organization?  How did they get there and why are they there? Gal 3:29,26 They were introduced to a taste of truth, which lead to their “captivity” to lies.  Rev 12:17; Matt 2:18; Rev 13:7; 11:7; 6:9-11; Rev 13:10 Jesus well knew of this “delusion” that would come upon God’s people. 2 Thess 2:1-12
    Because of their choice to leave Christ and follow an idol, God allows it to happen to his “royal priesthood” and any others who fall for it.  It becomes their period of tribulation and refinement.  Rev 2:14; 3:18
    In both Matt 10 and Mark 13, Jesus highlights the warnings he gave to his disciples.  Remember, his disciples are to preach to all the nations of Israel – God’s people. 
    “I came to the lost sheep of Israel”
     Today’s “Israel” are the anointed ones.
     “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.  But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues.”  Matt 10:16,17
    And Jesus, answering them, began to say: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 6 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and will deceive many.
    “The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the Governing Body, they are in fact following their leader, Christ.  Wt 9/15/2010” 
     "You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles". Matt 10:18
    “But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be beaten in the synagogues. You will be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them”  Mark 13:9
    Councils, governors, kings, synagogues, wolves.  The “Governing Body”, who, as anointed ones are “kings”, (1 Cor 4:8) symbolically “scourge” other anointed for their “testimony” of Christ. Matt 24:48-51This testimony is given to all “Gentiles” in the congregations/synagogues, and it is the “Gentile” “council” who spiritually “kills” them for doing so. Rev 2:9; 13:15; 11:7; Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1,2  Many anointed ones, as well as other JWs,  have written letters to the congregations; exposing their lies and giving their full testimony – of Christ, whom they come to realize, is their only Head. 
    Matt 10:21,22; Mark 13:12,13 clearly show fulfillment when one is disfellowshipped and considered “dead”; all for Christ’s sake.  They are hated, and called apostates; losing their families – for the name of Jesus.  Matt 5:10,11; John 15:18-21
    If you were to withdraw your eyes away from Satan’s world and look at the spiritual war and “earthquakes” between “nations” and “kingdoms” that involves the anointed, as they battle for either truth or lies; you would realize the Great Tribulation is upon us.  Mark 13:24,25; Amos 9:9;Haggai 2:6,9; Heb 12:26-28; 2 Tim 2:3,4; 2 Cor 10:4,5
    “When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”  Matt 10:23
    This isn’t speaking of the literal nation of Israel, is it. Rev 7:4;21:12  
    Jesus brought “truth” to God’s people, as well as the cry to repent from their sins.  The “two witnesses” (meaning “truth”) are those Jesus sends to the “holy people” during the time of the end, declaring they are to “come out of her, my people”.  Rev 18:4-8; Zech chapter 4; Rev 11:1-7; (1 Cor 3:16,17)
    This inspection and cleansing of God’s entire Temple/priesthood (1 Pet 2:5,9,10) certainly didn’t meet Christ’s approval during the years of1914-1919, as the Watchtower says.  It is rather blatantly clear as to why.   They were…
    -         Preaching that the “battle of the great day of God Almighty” (Rev. 16:14), would end in A.D. 1915
    -         Or that the “1000 years of Christ’s reign began in 1873
    -         That in 1918 God would destroy all churches
    -         That in 1925, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old” would return to human form
    -          preparing for the world to end in 1925
    Although, they will have you believe Christ was happy with all of this.   (w14 11/15 pp. 28-30)  There were lies in their mouths then; and now, as they do their best to cover them over. Deut 18:20; Mal 3:1-3; 2 Pet 3:14; Rev 21:25-27
    “For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.”  Matt 10:26b
    The “good news” is the restoration of “Jacob” – spiritual “Israel” -  which has its fulfillment OUTSIDE of the Watchtower Idol.  Isa 44:22; 48:20
    *Awake!  Is it Later Than You Think?  Is Time Running Out for This Generation?  What will the 1970’s Bring?  October 8, 1968
     
  25. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Shiwiii in Witness' view of the GB   
    It is truly sad when one cannot express their belief, but rather can only try and attach negativity to anyone who opposes a view that has been given to them. You seem to disagree, but can't quite get the thought out as to why. My only conclusion, since you cannot elaborate, is that you don't know why other than "because we (the gb) said so" 
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