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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Jehovah's Witnesses money   
  2. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Matthew9969 in "THIS LEGO MOVIE DESTROYED THE WATCHTOWER!"   
    This Lego Movie Destroyed the Watchtower!  
    "A US federal judge has ruled against Watch Tower Pennsylvania, denying their DMCA subpoena to identify the creator of the Jehovah's Witness parody videos known as "Dubtown.
    It's not a secret that during the last two years Watchtower obtained nearly 40 DMCA subpoenas requiring Google, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, SoundCloud, Scribd, Reddit and other ISPs to provide personal information of users that allegedly infringed the Society's copyright.
    Since subpoena proceeding is ex parte, almost all the requests were granted.
    But one of the affected users, Kevin McFee contacted, on advice of YouTube's legal team, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), and the Foundation found a law firm ready to represent him pro bono, namely Garvey Schubert Barer.
    Motion to quash the subpoena was filed in SDNY. To defend itself against this apostate attack, Watchtower had to hire Cowan, Liebowitz & Latman, a top firm in the field of copyright law, one of the six best ones nationwide according to The Legal 500 and one of the seven best ones in NY - according to Chambers.
    Motion to quash the subpoena and Watchtower's response were filed in August 2018 but hearing/conference still wasn't scheduled.
    On the 18th of January 2022 a US federal judge has ruled against Watch Tower Pennsylvania, denying their DMCA subpoena to identify the creator of the Jehovah's Witness parody videos known as "Dubtown"
    This major victory over the Watchtower will hopefully stop them going after every ex jw channel trying to bully them out of existence and more importantly stopping them getting hold of the names and addresses of the creators of these videos.
    Of course you know what they do once they get hold of this information , they get in touch with their congregation and make their life hell which could lead to disfellowshiping and fall out with their jw families. The following is part of the ruling signed by Nelson S. Norman, United States District Judge...
    See - https://tevangelinos.wixsite.com/jwupdates/post/this-lego-movie-destroyed-the-watchtower
     
    The Watchtower organization has for years, promoted their literature to as many people possible.  They have slandered individuals, organizations, political leaders, religions; but anyone who publicly brings their opinions to the world about them, they are hunted down using legal teams and  money donated by JWs.  If this is God's organization, why use the world's legal system and the world's lawyers to fight its battles?  Why not "wait on Jehovah" as its leaders tell its members to do, when injustices are committed within the organization?  
    “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you."  Luke 6:27-37
     
     
     
  3. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in FALSE CLAIMS   
  4. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in FALSE CLAIMS   
  5. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Will Life Ever Return to Normal? How the Bible Can Help in a Post-Pandemic World   
    Yes it's a wondeful Social Club. But so are many churches. But just like the Watchtower / JW Org, they all tell lies. 
    And they are all dangerous places to be. Child Sexual Abuse is in all these false religions including the JW Org. 
    This online stuff does have one good point. At least your perverts are not in the same room as the innocent young children, hopefuly. 
  6. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in FALSE CLAIMS   
    Who is to blame for the false claims?  The lawyers, or the eight men who assigned them to take care of business?   This should be, but won't be, an embarrassment for every JW to read.  No longer is the façade in place.  The real face of the organization is being exposed - and that being, God does not own it.  
    Lev. 19:11 - “ ‘Do not steal. “ ‘Do not lie. “ ‘Do not deceive one another."
    Matt 5:25 - “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison."
     
     
     
  7. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from Pudgy in Bro Rando is a rogue jw, which jw's here believe in him?   
    Really!  Well, like the JW mentioned on reddit that an elder told him, 'forget about the Bible, how do you feel about Jehovah's organization?'  That "worship" is paramount, as well as "worship" given to the eight.  
  8. Sad
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in FALSE CLAIMS   
    Who is to blame for the false claims?  The lawyers, or the eight men who assigned them to take care of business?   This should be, but won't be, an embarrassment for every JW to read.  No longer is the façade in place.  The real face of the organization is being exposed - and that being, God does not own it.  
    Lev. 19:11 - “ ‘Do not steal. “ ‘Do not lie. “ ‘Do not deceive one another."
    Matt 5:25 - “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison."
     
     
     
  9. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Bro Rando is a rogue jw, which jw's here believe in him?   
    I doubt anyone here will say that I have refused to be vocal on a variety of topics.  
  10. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Bro Rando is a rogue jw, which jw's here believe in him?   
    I'm just curious how he can teach doctrine that actually conflicts with what comes from the GB, and not be disfellowshipped.  I suppose as long as you support them and the organization, you can teach anything you want and not be called out for it.
  11. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in The Days of Distress are coming to their end...   
    Continue down in Dan 12 - 
    The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.” Dan 12:7
    The “holy people” are the same people mentioned in your scripture of Dan 12:1.  "Your people" are Daniel's people of Israel.  Today's "Israel" are God's chosen "holy people".  Why is their power broken?  How does that occur?
    “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.  Dan 12:11
    Who are to offer daily sacrifices?  It would be the chosen priests of God.  (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9)
    In the ancient Temple setting:  “Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.”  Heb 10:11
    What about today’s anointed priests of God’s spiritual Temple? (1 Cor 3:16) Are they to offer spiritual sacrifices?   
     “you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” 1 Pet 2:5
    They are an active priesthood, aren't they! 
    “Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name.”  Heb 13:15
    However, Dan 12:11 is calling the abolishment, the removal of daily sacrifices, as the “abomination that causes desolation”. 
    “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.”  Dan 11:31
    The power of the holy people/priesthood, as the “living stones” of the Temple of God, has been broken.  The daily sacrifices are no more. The holy people/priests are no longer sought out as God’s spiritual messengers.  (Mal 2:7) Although they carry God’s laws on their heart, they have been silenced and cannot teach them.  (Heb 8:10)
     Where is this happening? 
    “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.”
    “And give these rebels, the people of Israel, this message from the Sovereign Lord: O people of Israel, enough of your detestable sins! 7 You have brought uncircumcised foreigners into my sanctuary—people who have no heart for God. In this way, you *defiled my Temple even as you offered me my food, the fat and blood of sacrifices. In addition to all your other detestable sins, you have broken my covenant. 8 Instead of safeguarding my sacred rituals, you have hired foreigners to take charge of my sanctuary.”  Ezek 44:6-8
    The “Gentile”/foreigners/elders offer “sacrifices of praise” as representatives of the priesthood. They offer the majority of their praises to “Jehovah’s organization” – an idol. (Rev 13:1,2,4)
    The power of the holy people – of the holy priesthood and “living stones” of God’s Temple  – has been broken.  As a people they have been trampled, and as they are trampled down by the word of men, truth is also “thrown to the ground”.  Dan 8:12,13
    2 Thess 2:3,4 -  Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessnessis revealed—the one who brings destruction.
    He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.
    What is that great rebellion against God?
    “Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust.”
    The apostle Paul declared to the anointed priests –
    “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?  If anyone *defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.”  1 Cor 3:16,17
    If any anointed are reading this, consider who it is that says they are representing you as a priest, and by doing so they have "entered" the Temple of  God.  Consider that these elders rule over you, that they have been given false power to judge you as worthy or unworthy of God’s Holy Spirit.  (Rom 14:4; Gal 1:10; Rev 13:15)
    Is this a decree that has come down from God?  Would God condone the removal of His priests, the silencing of His decrees?  Has He ever agreed to this?
    "But you and your sons will carry out your priestly responsibilities for everything concerning the altar and for what is inside the curtain, and you will do that work. I am giving you the work of the priesthood as a gift, but an unauthorized person who comes near the sanctuary will be put to death." Num 18:7
    Elders, many of you are leaving the Wt, many more had better take note and do the same. (1 Cor 3:17; 2 Thess 2:3,4,8)  Please don’t treat God’s word on the matter of His royal priesthood, as not applying to you.  It is an “abomination” for anyone not anointed to rule over, silence, or order God’s priests not to bond together under Jesus Christ their Head, as your magazine has told them. 
    “But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”  Mar 13:14
     Abomination of Desolation toward the Constant Feature
     
     
     
     
     
     
  12. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in The Days of Distress are coming to their end...   
    Thank you for the quotes.
    That “disgusting thing” is the United Nations.
    18 The United Nations organization is described as a “disgusting thing” because it claims to be able to do something that only God’s Kingdom can do—bring world peace.
     
    Matt 24:15 - “So when you see the “disgusting thing” - the abomination of desolation,spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place” (let the reader understand)… 
    The scriptures provide the definition of the disgusting thing.  It is the trampling of the Temple of God, not that the UN “claims to be able to do something that only God’s Kingdom can do”. (Although that is what the Wt. organization claims, that spiritual peace and security are found within it.  1 Thess 5:3)    Daniel defines the abomination/disgusting thing quite clearly as affecting the Temple of God and His holy people, not all religions. It is the fourth Beast of Dan 7:7.  The footnote for “abomination” (Matt 24:15) refers to Dan 9  (Dan 9:24-27; Luke 17:26,27; Rev 12:1-3,15; 16:13-16).   Jerusalem and the Temple (1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22) are affected by the abomination. (Dan 7:25; 8:11,12,24)  We know the first fulfillment of this was in the first century, but there is another spoken of in Revelation which was written after Jerusalem’s destruction.  (Isa 26:13; 2 Thess 2:4; Rev 11:1-3; 13:1,2,5-7,11,12,15; 2 Chron 23:6)
    So Wt concentrates on the scarlet-colored wild beast; and as you say, skips over Rev 13 that mentions the “image” of the Beast, how it became that way, and that describes both the Wild Beast and the Beast/false prophet that directs it.  Why do they avoid these scriptures?  The primary target of the Wild Beast are the “saints”, not Christendom or false religion. (Rev 13:5-7)  And the saints are in the Watchtower, whose leaders avoid the truth.  These are the same leaders who have given breath/life to the “image of the Beast”, promoted as “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization”, which now, even that label they are trying to drop and tuck away...out of sight.
    Rev 14 – Three messengers/angels warn of the consequences of those worshiping the Beast and its image, and having its mark on the forehead; and it continues describing two harvests, of righteous “wheat” from the “earth” ,and the unrighteous ripened grapes from the vine of Sodom. (Deut 32:32; Rev 8:10,11; 17:1; (Matt 3:12; Joel 2:12,13; 3:13,14)   If Wt is correct in their interpretation of the Beast, I would guess THEY would provide these three messengers to sound the warning throughout the earth?  But, they have ignored this chapter that speaks of the spirit-directed image of the Beast, for ten years; and they wait with baited breath for Armageddon to break out any day now. 
    Rev 15 speaks of those who have gained victory over the Beast, since Rev 13:5-7 describes its war against the saints.  The victorious ones fell captive to the Beast, were “killed” by the Beast, but through their testimony of truth, gained eternal life. (Rev 11:7; 14:13)
    Rev 16 – God’s wrath in the form of spiritual plagues against those who killed the saints and the prophets.  It describes the battle of Armageddon against…again, God’s saints, the “kings of the earth” (Rev 1:5) who are gathered by the Wild Beast, the false prophet, and Satan…to be flooded with lies – “demonic expressions”.  Rev 16:13-16
    Rev 19 - The false prophet/Harlot of Rev 13:11 who has broken her covenant with God, is judged.  The Beast who warred with the saints, and the false prophet who approved of it, are both thrown into the lake of fire - the judgment by God's word.  Jer 23:29  This entire war is based on deceit.  It is not seen with the visible eye as the wars happening in the world.  (Eph 6:12)
    The leaders don’t like touching Rev 20, because of Gog and Magog and when Satan was released from the abyss.  Why upset the thought of a peaceful thousand years to come after Armageddon, with another visit by Gog!  Plus, there are those mentioned who never worshipped the Beast.  Who are they?  Why are there some who are victorious at winning the war against the Beast in chapter 15, rejecting its mark and are killed by it, and others who never faced the Beast – who never fell captive to it and “worshipped” it?  It is because of their flawed timetable of when Christ’s thousand years began and when it ended – with the advent of the Wt.  
    “As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise, and another shall arise after them; he shall be different from the former ones, and shall put down three kings.”  Dan 7:24
    The Beast “kills” three kings – the same three messengers of Revelation 14 that declares its sins and warn of the coming judgment against the Beast and the false prophet/Harlot. 
    “He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.”  Dan 7:25
    Is the United Nations going to capture all the anointed saints, (Rev 13:10), kill those who stand up to it when giving “testimony of Jesus”, and refuse its mark/identity (Rev 13:15;12:17)?  And  then…will  they be resurrected to declare its sins as the two witnesses/three messengers in Revelation 14?  (Rev 11:1-3,7)
    The Watchtower is the Wild Beast, the present GB entity is a "head" that direct it. (Rev 13:12) The organization/"Gentile" elder body is the "disgusting thing standing in the holy place"; which is the spiritual Temple of God, just as the abomination/disgusting thing was the Gentile Roman army in the first century, desecrating the temple in Jerusalem.  2 Thess 2:3,4 There is unity throughout God's word to help us understand end time fulfillment.   Watchtower makes up its fabrications, purposefully throwing all unity and definitions of scripture aside, to hide the truth.  
     
     
  13. Thanks
    Witness reacted to JW Insider in The Days of Distress are coming to their end...   
    That was on the closed club for JWs Only. But here is some of it again. Note however that Witness is somewhat correct that the actual term "image" from Rev 13, 14, 15, 16, 19, and 20 has not been used since 2012, [in the WT or books] which is nearly 10 years. But the same idea is tied to Rev 17 (the scarlet-colored beast) which has been used as a more direct reference to the UN.
    *** w20 May p. 7 pars. 17-18 “The King of the North” in the Time of the End ***
    17 The king of the north has supported the king of the south in one key endeavor; they “put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.” (Dan. 11:31) That “disgusting thing” is the United Nations.
    18 The United Nations organization is described as a “disgusting thing” because it claims to be able to do something that only God’s Kingdom can do—bring world peace. And the prophecy says that the disgusting thing “causes desolation” because the United Nations will play a key role in the destruction of all false religion.—See the chart “Rival Kings in the Time of the End.”
    *** w19 September pp. 10-11 par. 11 Armageddon Is Good News! ***
    Jehovah will destroy “the great prostitute” by means of “the ten horns” of “a scarlet-colored wild beast.” That figurative wild beast represents the United Nations. The ten horns represent the current political powers supporting that organization.
    *** w19 October p. 15 par. 3 Stay Faithful Through the “Great Tribulation” ***
    God will put his thought into the hearts of “the ten horns” of the “scarlet-colored wild beast.” The ten horns represent all the political powers that support “the wild beast”—the United Nations. (Rev. 17:3, 11-13; 18:8) When those political powers turn on false religion, that will mark the beginning of the great tribulation. It will be a truly catastrophic world event.
    *** w15 7/15 p. 15 pars. 4-5 “Your Deliverance Is Getting Near”! ***
    Jehovah God will put “his thought” into the hearts of “the ten horns” of the “scarlet-colored wild beast.” These horns represent all the present political powers that give support to the United Nations, an organization pictured by the “scarlet-colored wild beast.”—Read Revelation 17:3, 16-18.
    5 Should we conclude, though, that the destruction of the religions of Babylon the Great results in the death of all the former members of those religions? Apparently not.
    *** w14 10/15 p. 19 Milestones in My Life of Kingdom Service ***
    The Bible foretold that the League would be replaced, leading to a time of relative peace. And so it was that in 1945, World War II ended. After that, the “beast” reappeared as the United Nations. Jehovah’s Witnesses then expanded their global preaching work, and what a great increase there has been ever since!
    *** w13 7/15 pp. 4-5 par. 6 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
    In the larger fulfillment, the “standing” will occur when the United Nations (the modern-day “disgusting thing”) attacks Christendom (which is holy in the eyes of nominal Christians) and the rest of Babylon the Great. The same attack is described at Revelation 17:16-18. That event will be the beginning of the great tribulation.
    *** ws12 6/15 pp. 17-18 par. 13 Jehovah Reveals What “Must Shortly Take Place” ***
    The League of Nations disappeared when World War II started. During that war, God’s people said that according to the prophecy in Revelation, this organization would appear again. That is exactly what happened, and now the organization is called the United Nations.—Revelation 17:8.
    *** ws12 6/15 p. 18 par. 15 Jehovah Reveals What “Must Shortly Take Place” ***
    The religions of Christendom are surely part of Babylon the Great. False religions have publicly supported the image of the beast, that is, the League of Nations and the United Nations, and they have tried to direct these organizations.
  14. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in The Last Days... When?   
    Nice that you linked the conversation.  As you said there, "It is unhealthy to continue with repetitive banter", SM.
    Everything will come to light in its own time.  (Matt 10:26)
     
  15. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in The Last Days... When?   
    I commend you.  You have this remarkable talent of twisting whatever one says or doesn't say, into a lie.  
  16. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in The Last Days... When?   
    Obviously you won't read this, because it will take longer than 30 seconds.  I don't need to "try" to conform to your wishes, but to conform my words to truth in God's word.  Isn't that right?  But, in a rather larger nutshell, this is why I wouldn't spend time on Catholic forums or atheist forums.
    Unlike the Watchtower, which preaches that the warning call to come out of "Babylon" applies to all other religions, this call's history was directed to God's people under covenant.  (Jer 51:6) .   And why were God's people in Babylon to begin with?  False prophets, idolatry and rebellion against His decrees thrived among His people.  When His warning call sent through His messengers was unheeded, He removed His protection, and they were conquered by the enemy.  They were disciplined through this enemy’s power, but not all responded in repentance.  Their hearts became hardened; they loved the lies and the idolatry.   
    Today’s warning call is also to those under covenant with God, and has  been going on for quite a few years. 1 Cor 5:9-13 used for disfellowshipping purposes, applies to those under the New Covenant, and not to all JWs.  Elders have no permission to judge those under God's covenant. They have no permission to judge any JW.   The judges of the Body of Christ are the anointed.  Additionally, it states, God judges those outside - the Catholics, the atheist, and all.  Yet, because of their association with the Body, JWs receive this message as well. (Matt 25:31-46; John 13:20; Matt 7:21-23; 2 Thess 2:8; Rev 13:1,4,8; Isa 57:20)  The "harvest" is of the wheat, sons of God/anointed priests who are now under "Babylon" - a spiritual state of confusion where dark, failed untruths have no share in the light and purity of Jesus Christ. (Matt 13:38; 2 Cor 6:14; Eph 4:25)  They “live” with spiritual harlots who love their riches, power and dominion over Christ’s “kings of the earth”. Rev 1:5;5:9,10  Revelation concerns Christ’s kings, not rulers on the political scene. (Jer 2:20; 13:27; Ezek 16:25; Ps 106:39; Rev 13:11,12; 17:15,5)
     The Wt. holds the rod of discipline that has come against the anointed – Prov 10:13; Dan 2:33,34; Ps 2:9; Isa 8:9; Dan 8:25; Rev 9:9
    – a stinging army from the "north", the elder body/man of lawlessness which has trampled down the spiritual members of God's Temple.  (Amos 7:1; Joel 1:4,6,7,9; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1-3; Rev 9:3-6)   Why?  They have accepted the lies of false prophets, and the idolatry formed through the presence of these prophets’ earthly treasures – the organization.  They have allowed themselves to be trampled ; GOD’S TEMPLE  is in ruins.  In the organization the anointed living stones, must not become one body under Jesus Christ.  They must remain scattered according to your leadership – “not one stone upon a stone”.  (Matt 24:2,24-26)
    Always, God has sent His messengers to His people under covenant. (Ezek 3:17-19; Amos 3:7) When there is no distinction being made between the sins of the Wt and the sins of the world, it should be clear that the anointed must detach themselves from such iniquity, and the abomination standing in the holy place. (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4)   Except JWs see only the sins of the world, and excuse, or are oblivious to, their organization’s sins.
    The call is only indistinct to those who choose to remain asleep in darkness - who believe God does not measure the sins of His people. (Ezek 2:5; Zech 2:6,7; Rev 11:1)  If they choose lies over truth – where spiritual harlots breathe out lies to God’s holy people -  their hearts are hardened to the understanding of the message. (Isa 6:10; Matt 13:15; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 16:13-16)  God does not abandon us to darkness, if we yearn to receive the light of life through His Son. (Jer 3:22; 14:7;24:7; Zech 2:8-13;  Eph 5:13-17)
    Salvation awaits those who reject the lies, the idolatry, the sins, and man of lawlessness  (Isa 48:20; Rev 18:4-8) Since Christ, this salvation has never been in the form of an earthly organization/corporation built in Satan’s realm, admitted to be a unique idea of men.  God and Jesus Christ are there to comfort the victims of captivity, sin, dominion, and the oppressive decrees of men.  Just as Babylon was destroyed, and only a remnant survived, it is the same today.  Only a remnant will return from “captivity” under the Harlot and her “Beast”.  (Rev 13:10) (Isa 41:11,10; Mal 3:6; Joel 3:1,2; Isa 43:5-9)
     
  17. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in The Days of Distress are coming to their end...   
    Continue down in Dan 12 - 
    The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.” Dan 12:7
    The “holy people” are the same people mentioned in your scripture of Dan 12:1.  "Your people" are Daniel's people of Israel.  Today's "Israel" are God's chosen "holy people".  Why is their power broken?  How does that occur?
    “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.  Dan 12:11
    Who are to offer daily sacrifices?  It would be the chosen priests of God.  (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9)
    In the ancient Temple setting:  “Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.”  Heb 10:11
    What about today’s anointed priests of God’s spiritual Temple? (1 Cor 3:16) Are they to offer spiritual sacrifices?   
     “you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” 1 Pet 2:5
    They are an active priesthood, aren't they! 
    “Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name.”  Heb 13:15
    However, Dan 12:11 is calling the abolishment, the removal of daily sacrifices, as the “abomination that causes desolation”. 
    “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.”  Dan 11:31
    The power of the holy people/priesthood, as the “living stones” of the Temple of God, has been broken.  The daily sacrifices are no more. The holy people/priests are no longer sought out as God’s spiritual messengers.  (Mal 2:7) Although they carry God’s laws on their heart, they have been silenced and cannot teach them.  (Heb 8:10)
     Where is this happening? 
    “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.”
    “And give these rebels, the people of Israel, this message from the Sovereign Lord: O people of Israel, enough of your detestable sins! 7 You have brought uncircumcised foreigners into my sanctuary—people who have no heart for God. In this way, you *defiled my Temple even as you offered me my food, the fat and blood of sacrifices. In addition to all your other detestable sins, you have broken my covenant. 8 Instead of safeguarding my sacred rituals, you have hired foreigners to take charge of my sanctuary.”  Ezek 44:6-8
    The “Gentile”/foreigners/elders offer “sacrifices of praise” as representatives of the priesthood. They offer the majority of their praises to “Jehovah’s organization” – an idol. (Rev 13:1,2,4)
    The power of the holy people – of the holy priesthood and “living stones” of God’s Temple  – has been broken.  As a people they have been trampled, and as they are trampled down by the word of men, truth is also “thrown to the ground”.  Dan 8:12,13
    2 Thess 2:3,4 -  Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessnessis revealed—the one who brings destruction.
    He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.
    What is that great rebellion against God?
    “Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust.”
    The apostle Paul declared to the anointed priests –
    “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?  If anyone *defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.”  1 Cor 3:16,17
    If any anointed are reading this, consider who it is that says they are representing you as a priest, and by doing so they have "entered" the Temple of  God.  Consider that these elders rule over you, that they have been given false power to judge you as worthy or unworthy of God’s Holy Spirit.  (Rom 14:4; Gal 1:10; Rev 13:15)
    Is this a decree that has come down from God?  Would God condone the removal of His priests, the silencing of His decrees?  Has He ever agreed to this?
    "But you and your sons will carry out your priestly responsibilities for everything concerning the altar and for what is inside the curtain, and you will do that work. I am giving you the work of the priesthood as a gift, but an unauthorized person who comes near the sanctuary will be put to death." Num 18:7
    Elders, many of you are leaving the Wt, many more had better take note and do the same. (1 Cor 3:17; 2 Thess 2:3,4,8)  Please don’t treat God’s word on the matter of His royal priesthood, as not applying to you.  It is an “abomination” for anyone not anointed to rule over, silence, or order God’s priests not to bond together under Jesus Christ their Head, as your magazine has told them. 
    “But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”  Mar 13:14
     Abomination of Desolation toward the Constant Feature
     
     
     
     
     
     
  18. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in Fleeing from Idolatry   
    I appreciate how the connection is made to Deut 4:6-8, with the failed obedience to the word of God in Christ, by the anointed “Israel” – today's “living stones” of God’s Temple/dwelling in spirit. (Rom 9:6-8,25,26; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16) 
     It is said in the post,  “Israel is to be the example for the world to follow”. This is a scripture included in the post:
    “Indeed, he says, “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
    and to restore the preserved of Israel.
    I will also give you as a light to the nations,
    that you may be my salvation to the ends of the earth." Isa 49:6
     
    “In the last days
    the mountain of the Lord’s TEMPLE will be established
    as the highest of the mountains;
    it will be exalted above the hills,
    AND ALL NATIONS WILL STREAM TO IT.
    3 Many peoples will come and say,
    “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
    to the temple of the God of Jacob.
    He will teach us his ways,
    so that we may walk in his paths.”
    THE LAW WILL GO OUT FROM ZION,
    THE WORD OF THE LORD FROM JERUSALEM. Isa 2:2,3
    As a JW, I remember well that these scriptures were to mean that nations would stream to the organization, but the organization is not God's Temple.   I believed that the membership would continue to grow by leaps and bounds.  But it isn't happening.  All that they teach are empty lies...stories that have captured the anointed priests of God, who now are silenced under the dominion of men.   (Col 2:8; 1 Tim 4:1; 2 Pet 2:1-3; Rev 13:1,2,5-7,10; 16:13-16)
    Mal 2:7 says, “For the lips of a priest should maintain knowledge, and people should seek the law from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the Lord of armies.”
    Yet, in the lofty mountain home of Wt., where the anointed are under the dominance of a wicked slave and a nation of elder “Gentiles”, (Matt 24:48-51; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2) “Israel” has succumbed to the rules and regulations of these men and their idol “High Place”. They have become like the nations, “serving wood and stone”.
    Ezek 20:29-38 
     
  19. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in Fleeing from Idolatry   
    Written by "Joe", a faithful disciple of Christ. 
    JW’s claim they are fulfilling prophecy of Matthew 24:14 in preaching the good news of the Kingdom, and claim they’re doing this to the whole population of earth.
    There is one major discrepancy in this scenario, Jesus said the final witness before his return is not to the whole population of earth, but rather it is to be directed to the towns of Israel:
    “When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”- Matthew 10:23
    God always sent prophets to warn of His people’s sins (2 Chronicles 24:19) and has always worked with Israel to repent. Israel knew His laws, as God made them to be an example for others to follow.
    Deut 4:1-8 “Now, Israel, listen to the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live, enter, and take possession of the land the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is giving you. 2 You must not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, so that you may keep the commands of the Lord your God I am giving you. 3 Your eyes have seen what the Lord did at Baal-peor, for the Lord your God destroyed every one of you who followed Baal of Peor. 4 But you who have remained faithful to the Lord your God are all alive today. 5 Look, I have taught you statutes and ordinances as the Lord my God has commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to possess.
    6 Carefully follow them, for this will show your wisdom and understanding in the eyes of the peoples. When they hear about all these statutes, they will say, ‘This great nation is indeed a wise and understanding people.’ 7 For what great nation is there that has a god near to it as the Lord our God is to us whenever we call to him? 8 And what great nation has righteous statutes and ordinances like this entire law I set before you today?”
    However, Israel always became rebellious, and relying on their own understandin,g forgot about God, violated His laws, and followed other idolatrous organizations (Deuteronomy 29:26).
    Israel’s following The Watchtower organization today is no different than early Israel following Baal.  God does not have an equal, the Watchtower is not God, and there is no wavering (Isaiah 40:25; 1 Kings 18:21). Since God does not violate his covenant (Psalms 89:34), and certainly does not work with the Watchtower or any other organization, God sent a prophet to warn His people, and unless they change their ways they will suffer the consequences. God’s prophet is to shout out loud like a trumpet blast:
    "Shout with the voice of a trumpet blast. Shout aloud! Don’t be timid. TELL MY PEOPLE Israel of their sins!" (Isaiah 58:1).
    God said “tell my people Israel” of their sins, not outsiders; after all, Israel is to be the example for the world to follow (Isaiah 49:1-6), and if all of Israel is flooded in idolatry and fail to follow Jesus’ commands, what example are they setting for others? So, why is the Watchtower calling out everyone else’s sins, but those of the idol itself? Because idols don’t call out idols, and Satan doesn’t oppose himself (Mark 3:26).
    The same pattern of idolatry is happening today. Again, the rebellious house of Israel has forgotten about God and His laws and have surrendered themselves to the laws of the Watchtower, only following what an apostate governing body and their army of elders say, instead of God’s word. Just one example proves this; they believe being submissive to the organization will save them. The organization can’t save anyone (1 Samuel 12:21; 2 Kings 17:15), it’s God who saves (Isaiah 43:11).  They must have forgot that part.
    There is a trumpet blast today, but it’s not for the whole population of earth,  God will judge those outside (1 Corinthians 5:12-13). This trumpet blast is directed right at the towns of Israel (Revelation 18:4; Matthew 24:15), and is a chance for Israel to flee their idolatry of the Watchtower and out of covenant with death, (Isaiah 28:15), and return to their covenant with God (Isaiah 14:1; Jeremiah 32:38).
    The good news is being preached to spiritual Israel right now, and it won’t be finished before Jesus Christ returns.
    https://inthenightaflyingscroll.blogspot.com/
    https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-good-news-part-one.html
    http://www.christsdisciple.com/
     

  20. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in This is so sad.   
    These comments are tools used by the GB to instill fear, where fear should not exist.  It is absolutely a pervasive fallacy to -
    #1 – compare an uninspired GB to Moses, personally chosen by God as a prophet. 
    #2 – claim that God’s representatives are the GB, when false prophets (which means they have predicted false dates and doctrine revealed as a lie…“old light”/”new light”) were prophesied to come against the “elect” in the last days. (Matt 24:24)  There were many false prophets in the nation of Israel, and if the governing leaders want to make the comparison of that ancient nation to themselves, why would the Wt., that holds anointed “Israel”, concentrate on the world’s religions and its false prophets, and not on the nation of “Israel”?  The comparison to yesterday’s Israel and today’s spiritual “Israel”, should hold in all cases; but it doesn’t, because, Wt.’s leaders are the false prophets.    (Matt 24:24,25; 7:15-20; Acts 20:28-31; 1 Tim 4:1; Col 2:8; Rev 13:11,12,15)
     #3 – to use the example of Korah against “apostates”
    What was Korah rebelling against?
     Moses also told Korah, “Now listen, Levites! 9 Isn’t it enough for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the Israelite community to bring you near to himself, to perform the work at the Lord’s tabernacle, and to stand before the community to minister to them? 10 He has brought you near, and all your fellow Levites who are with you, but you are pursuing the priesthood as well. 11 Therefore, it is you and all your followers who have conspired against the Lord! As for Aaron, who is he that you should complain about him?”  Num 16
    Most apostates are rebelling against false teachings, separation of families, child abuse, elder abuse by the Wt. securing inheritance that should rightly go to the children and many other valid reasons.
    Korah was challenging who God chose as priests.  As the Watchtower states, he wanted to “secure the priesthood”.  Here’s the story as told in your magazine. “Loyally Submitting to Godly Authority”  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002563
    It states:
    “Who make up this royal priesthood today? The apostle Peter answers that question in his first inspired letter. To anointed members of the body of Christ, Peter wrote: “You are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies’ of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” (1 Peter 2:9) 
    Ever so smoothly, it presents the hidden challenge against God’s choice of priests –
    “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.”
    But notice in paragraph 20, that the challenge, the battle against God’s choice of priests, continues covertly by your organization.
    “Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust.”
    Yes, it is stating that those who cannot “challenge” this man-made ruling that the elders are to act as priests, are the anointed priests and “living stones” of God’s Temple in Spirit! (1 Cor 3:16,17)  Didn’t Moses challenge – confront, dispute -  Korah’s blasphemous “challenge” against the priesthood?  And in the end, was Korah’s desire to secure the priesthood upheld by God, or was the Aaronic priesthood upheld by God? 
    “…just as the Lord commanded him through Moses. It was to be a reminder for the Israelites that no unauthorized person outside the lineage of Aaron should approach to offer incense before the Lord and become like Korah and his followers.”  Num 16:14
    Few would dare challenge an established elder body for such a reason, except the chosen priests of God.  Any who do challenge it, are tossed out and deemed spiritually dead as an apostate.  (John 16:2; Rev 11:1-3,7; 13:15)
    Those few others who do see that the “man of lawlessness”/elder body “sits”/rules in the Temple dwelling of the Father, have left the organization.  They perceive the “abomination standing in the holy place”.    Matt 24:14,15; Rev 13:1,5-7,18
    The leadership has apostatized against God’s decrees concerning His priesthood, and are ruling as “wicked slaves” over JWs and the anointed priesthood. (Matt 24:48-51) It is JWs who are the blind ones, and who have rejected God’s laws which are written on the anointed heart, for the laws of men.  (1 John 2:27;Heb 8:10)  How, can anyone read that Watchtower and not see that the elder body has "secured the priesthood"?  They have to be spiritually blinded by evil. (1 Tim 4:1)
    2 Thess 2:1-4 – “Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come. (1914) 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.”
    The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with every kind of miracle, both signs and wonders serving the lie, 10 and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12 so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but delighted in unrighteousness.
     
    Is the organization preaching that JWs are “Loyally Submitting to Godly Authority”?  Or, to the godly authority of an idol where the “man of lawlessness” resides? 
    The Disgusting Thing Standing in the Holy Place
  21. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in The Days of Distress are coming to their end...   
    But look at that picture. DOOM and GLOOM, FEAR mongering.  The Watchtower way. 
    JWs have always used this approach. Physical distruction wipes out everything and everyone in it's path.
    Almighty God and Jesus Christ do not act that way. Each indivdual will be judged as such, an individual. 
    God's message through Christ should be taught with love, not fear. 
     
     
  22. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in This is so sad.   
    You seem to be judging your own deeds.
    Your own words. You judging your Elders. BUT you are just one of thousands that have been abused and mistreated in that immoral JW org.
     
    Unfortunately you are blind, and possibly because you want to be blind. How can such a wicked organisation, full of sexual abuse, lies and deciet, be used by God or Christ ? 
    Your GB even 'beat their fellow slaves'.  That GB have exalted themselves above all the anointed. Even to the point of telling those Anointed not to meet together. The GB tell the Anointed that they 'would be working against the Holy Spirit'.  Whereas Jesus told the Anointed to gather together and that HE would be amongst them. 
    Jesus does not need my help of course, but it is my duty of Christian conscience to warn people of the wickedness and immorality and danger of that JW org. 
     
  23. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in This is so sad.   
    These comments are tools used by the GB to instill fear, where fear should not exist.  It is absolutely a pervasive fallacy to -
    #1 – compare an uninspired GB to Moses, personally chosen by God as a prophet. 
    #2 – claim that God’s representatives are the GB, when false prophets (which means they have predicted false dates and doctrine revealed as a lie…“old light”/”new light”) were prophesied to come against the “elect” in the last days. (Matt 24:24)  There were many false prophets in the nation of Israel, and if the governing leaders want to make the comparison of that ancient nation to themselves, why would the Wt., that holds anointed “Israel”, concentrate on the world’s religions and its false prophets, and not on the nation of “Israel”?  The comparison to yesterday’s Israel and today’s spiritual “Israel”, should hold in all cases; but it doesn’t, because, Wt.’s leaders are the false prophets.    (Matt 24:24,25; 7:15-20; Acts 20:28-31; 1 Tim 4:1; Col 2:8; Rev 13:11,12,15)
     #3 – to use the example of Korah against “apostates”
    What was Korah rebelling against?
     Moses also told Korah, “Now listen, Levites! 9 Isn’t it enough for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the Israelite community to bring you near to himself, to perform the work at the Lord’s tabernacle, and to stand before the community to minister to them? 10 He has brought you near, and all your fellow Levites who are with you, but you are pursuing the priesthood as well. 11 Therefore, it is you and all your followers who have conspired against the Lord! As for Aaron, who is he that you should complain about him?”  Num 16
    Most apostates are rebelling against false teachings, separation of families, child abuse, elder abuse by the Wt. securing inheritance that should rightly go to the children and many other valid reasons.
    Korah was challenging who God chose as priests.  As the Watchtower states, he wanted to “secure the priesthood”.  Here’s the story as told in your magazine. “Loyally Submitting to Godly Authority”  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002563
    It states:
    “Who make up this royal priesthood today? The apostle Peter answers that question in his first inspired letter. To anointed members of the body of Christ, Peter wrote: “You are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies’ of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” (1 Peter 2:9) 
    Ever so smoothly, it presents the hidden challenge against God’s choice of priests –
    “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.”
    But notice in paragraph 20, that the challenge, the battle against God’s choice of priests, continues covertly by your organization.
    “Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust.”
    Yes, it is stating that those who cannot “challenge” this man-made ruling that the elders are to act as priests, are the anointed priests and “living stones” of God’s Temple in Spirit! (1 Cor 3:16,17)  Didn’t Moses challenge – confront, dispute -  Korah’s blasphemous “challenge” against the priesthood?  And in the end, was Korah’s desire to secure the priesthood upheld by God, or was the Aaronic priesthood upheld by God? 
    “…just as the Lord commanded him through Moses. It was to be a reminder for the Israelites that no unauthorized person outside the lineage of Aaron should approach to offer incense before the Lord and become like Korah and his followers.”  Num 16:14
    Few would dare challenge an established elder body for such a reason, except the chosen priests of God.  Any who do challenge it, are tossed out and deemed spiritually dead as an apostate.  (John 16:2; Rev 11:1-3,7; 13:15)
    Those few others who do see that the “man of lawlessness”/elder body “sits”/rules in the Temple dwelling of the Father, have left the organization.  They perceive the “abomination standing in the holy place”.    Matt 24:14,15; Rev 13:1,5-7,18
    The leadership has apostatized against God’s decrees concerning His priesthood, and are ruling as “wicked slaves” over JWs and the anointed priesthood. (Matt 24:48-51) It is JWs who are the blind ones, and who have rejected God’s laws which are written on the anointed heart, for the laws of men.  (1 John 2:27;Heb 8:10)  How, can anyone read that Watchtower and not see that the elder body has "secured the priesthood"?  They have to be spiritually blinded by evil. (1 Tim 4:1)
    2 Thess 2:1-4 – “Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come. (1914) 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.”
    The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with every kind of miracle, both signs and wonders serving the lie, 10 and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12 so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but delighted in unrighteousness.
     
    Is the organization preaching that JWs are “Loyally Submitting to Godly Authority”?  Or, to the godly authority of an idol where the “man of lawlessness” resides? 
    The Disgusting Thing Standing in the Holy Place
  24. Sad
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in LOVE FOR JESUS CHRIST   
    My first definition was on the same lines as this one:
    http://www.mother-god.com/greek_goddess_demeter.html
    What we actually have is de-meter often anciently abbreviated simply to deo. The most obvious and likely etymology is "God-Mother" or "Divine-Mother", often abbreviated simply to "God".
    Secondly, the Greek Goddess Demeter represents a particular aspect of Deity with an important agricultural ritual and symbolism. She is the Mother God within Her own, very widespread cultus, just as Allah is the Father God in the cultus of Islam. Nonetheless, the particular religious emphasis of her cultus was upon the mystery of death and resurrection: the Mother God and Her Sacrificial Daughter. In fact, this is exactly the same religious stream that, in patriarchalised form, became the cultus known as Christianity.
    Aah, another dichotomy. Watchtower is full of them.  
    It is very curious Allen, why you would choose such a name for someone who professes to be a Christian, or do you profess to be a Christian?  Now, if your were born with this name, it's different story.  But, to voluntarily choose the name of a pagan deity...well, it explains your aversion to truth.
    God's true witnesses are the anointed priesthood.  Isa 43:10-13  These scriptures should explain that both Pearl and I are only witnesses for YHVH and His Son.   
    This is what the Lord, the King of Israel and its Redeemer, the Lord of Armies, says:
    I am the first and I am the last.
    There is no God but me.
    7 Who, like me, can announce the future?
    Let him say so and make a case before me,
    since I have established an ancient people.
    Let these gods declare the coming things,
    and what will take place.
    8 Do not be startled or afraid.
    Have I not told you and declared it long ago?
    You are my witnesses!
    Is there any God but me?
    There is no other Rock; I do not know any.
    9 All who make idols are nothing,
    and what they treasure benefits no one.
    Their witnesses do not see or know anything,
    so they will be put to shame.
    10 Who makes a god or casts a metal image
    that benefits no one?
    11 Look, all its worshipers will be put to shame,
    and the craftsmen are humans.
    They all will assemble and stand;
    they all will be startled and put to shame.  Isa 44:6-11
  25. Like
    Witness reacted to Amidstheroses in How were JW elders who were really Communist Spies appointed by "Holy Spirit"?   
    Recall…Judas was NOT ‘of the heavenly calling’ as you put it.
    it was after Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection, at Pentecost, that tongues of fire appeared over the head of the first humans anointed. These 120, gathered in the upper room, were the first, after Jesus, to receive the heavenly calling.
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