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Witness

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  1. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in "How can I explain 'the meek will inherit the earth' to my jw husband?"   
    In Hebrew, “thousand” -  Strong’s concordance refers it to “a company of men”.  It’s interesting to read its definition on blueletterbible.
    The Greek “thousand” - plural of uncertain affinity
    “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” 2 Pet 3:8
    “For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.”  Ps 90:4
    The number one thousand (1,000) symbolizes “immensity,” “fullness of quantity” or “multitude.” The number evokes a very long time according to most Bible passages. It is often used in scripture to specify an indefinite quantity. http://www.scripturerevealed.com/bible-studies/the-meaning-of-numbers-the-number-1000/
    One thing I think we agree on, is that it is a number that has an end, according to God.  But when reading Rev 21:14-22, which uses terms that appear to be describing a literal building, I realize its full spiritual symbolism, since the Temple is built with people, God and Jesus, not with literal walls, gates and a foundation.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)  I believe also, the number who “fill” this spiritual temple is also symbolic. 
     
  2. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in "How can I explain 'the meek will inherit the earth' to my jw husband?"   
    Well, my elder husband left the organization because of its hypocrisy, before I did.  I followed a while afterward. He supported me in this work, until he died.
     But, let me pose a scenario:  A JW “sister” approaches the elders about her abusive husband, and they tell her to go home and pray, to help her continue to tolerate the abuse by her JW husband who could likely be an elder.  That sister, battered and torn down by abuse, who can’t take any more neglect of shepherding by the elders, leaves the organization and her abusive husband.  She is subsequently disfellowshipped for speaking against the abuse that was never dealt with by the elder body.  Or perhaps she filed a report to the police when she was told to keep it to herself, since her husband was an elder in "good standing" with the congregation and good buddies with the elder body.  Does that woman’s husband have the right to divorce her for being labeled an apostate, now that she is disfellowshipped?
    What I see in you, is a lust for blood and destruction, and an arrogance similar to your leaders.  The “two witnesses” who prophesy the sins of their people – their anointed brothers and sisters, who tolerate the elders/man of lawlessness robbing them of their position as priests -  preach in sackcloth, in mourning for their people. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; 18:4-8) 
    But you seem to love and condemn millions to a bloody or a literal fiery death.  
    I’m very sorry for you.  This is not the way of Jesus Christ. ( Luke 19:10; Rev 3:1-3, 17-19)
  3. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in "How can I explain 'the meek will inherit the earth' to my jw husband?"   
    In Hebrew, “thousand” -  Strong’s concordance refers it to “a company of men”.  It’s interesting to read its definition on blueletterbible.
    The Greek “thousand” - plural of uncertain affinity
    “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” 2 Pet 3:8
    “For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.”  Ps 90:4
    The number one thousand (1,000) symbolizes “immensity,” “fullness of quantity” or “multitude.” The number evokes a very long time according to most Bible passages. It is often used in scripture to specify an indefinite quantity. http://www.scripturerevealed.com/bible-studies/the-meaning-of-numbers-the-number-1000/
    One thing I think we agree on, is that it is a number that has an end, according to God.  But when reading Rev 21:14-22, which uses terms that appear to be describing a literal building, I realize its full spiritual symbolism, since the Temple is built with people, God and Jesus, not with literal walls, gates and a foundation.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)  I believe also, the number who “fill” this spiritual temple is also symbolic. 
     
  4. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in "How can I explain 'the meek will inherit the earth' to my jw husband?"   
    The Body of Christ involves God's chosen priesthood. (1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10; Isa 43:21,10) I don't believe that this "body" is everyone. (Rom 2:28,29; Gal 3:29; Rom 9:8) The priests are to serve not only God and Jesus, but the "nations" - the children to come in the Kingdom.  This Body of Christ is "New Jerusalem" coming down out of heaven as the dwelling of God's Spirit which "resides" with mankind - the nations.  (Rev 21:1-4)  This is a family, with children "born" first - the anointed who comprise the Bride of Christ under the New Covenant.  Symbolically, this Bride when united with Jesus, "her" "husband", indicates the fulfillment of the New Covenant. (2 Cor 11:2) More children are "born" in the Kingdom of God. (Isa 66)  I believe, just as Revelation is a symbolic book, the number "144,000" is also symbolic and is used in the scriptures in various ways. With the Wt, everything is physical, tangible, not spiritual - including the number 144,000.  If the Body was formed from a definite number, then wouldn't each one have a different gift from the other?  But this isn't the case, since the gifts are outlined in the scriptures and there are not, as far as we know, a literal 144,00 of them.  🙂
    We know that the Temple of God is a "living" temple, not physical. (2 Cor 6:16)   Neither is the number of "stones" who comprise it.  This article below breaks down 144,000 to reveal that it is based on the "measurement" of the temple of God, and that measurement is truth in Jesus Christ.  (Eph 2:20-22; 1 Tim 3:15)
    This scripture is for all who accept and believe the truth in Jesus Christ - Both the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let anyone who hears, say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come. Let the one who desires take the water of life freely.  Rev 22:17
    Who are the 144,000?
  5. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in "How can I explain 'the meek will inherit the earth' to my jw husband?"   
    The Body of Christ involves God's chosen priesthood. (1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10; Isa 43:21,10) I don't believe that this "body" is everyone. (Rom 2:28,29; Gal 3:29; Rom 9:8) The priests are to serve not only God and Jesus, but the "nations" - the children to come in the Kingdom.  This Body of Christ is "New Jerusalem" coming down out of heaven as the dwelling of God's Spirit which "resides" with mankind - the nations.  (Rev 21:1-4)  This is a family, with children "born" first - the anointed who comprise the Bride of Christ under the New Covenant.  Symbolically, this Bride when united with Jesus, "her" "husband", indicates the fulfillment of the New Covenant. (2 Cor 11:2) More children are "born" in the Kingdom of God. (Isa 66)  I believe, just as Revelation is a symbolic book, the number "144,000" is also symbolic and is used in the scriptures in various ways. With the Wt, everything is physical, tangible, not spiritual - including the number 144,000.  If the Body was formed from a definite number, then wouldn't each one have a different gift from the other?  But this isn't the case, since the gifts are outlined in the scriptures and there are not, as far as we know, a literal 144,00 of them.  🙂
    We know that the Temple of God is a "living" temple, not physical. (2 Cor 6:16)   Neither is the number of "stones" who comprise it.  This article below breaks down 144,000 to reveal that it is based on the "measurement" of the temple of God, and that measurement is truth in Jesus Christ.  (Eph 2:20-22; 1 Tim 3:15)
    This scripture is for all who accept and believe the truth in Jesus Christ - Both the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let anyone who hears, say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come. Let the one who desires take the water of life freely.  Rev 22:17
    Who are the 144,000?
  6. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in "How can I explain 'the meek will inherit the earth' to my jw husband?"   
    "It all goes back to what God promised Abraham. God repeated that promise, to Abraham's grandson, Jacob. In fact, *the scriptures I'm going to give you, prove that JW doctrine is false.*
    At Gen.28: "10 Jacob left Beersheba and set out for Harran. 11 When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep. 12 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and *the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.* 13 There above it stood the Lord, and he said: ‘I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. *I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying.* 14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and *they will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring."*
    There we learn, that it is Abraham's seed, that will inherit the earth. But we learn more... The meaning of "angel", is messenger. Verse 12 tells us, that those messengers will be traveling between heaven and earth, and in the very next verse, says that the earth will belong to Abraham's seed and they will spread out to possess the entire planet.
    Why put the vision of the angels, along with the promise of the people who are going to Inherit the earth?
    At John1:51, Jesus told Nathaniel, "‘Very truly I tell you, you will see “heaven open, and *the angels of God ascending and descending in service to the Son of Man.’"*
    Jesus repeated the words that God told Jacob, but added that the angels/messengers, would be serving Christ, AND, that Nathaniel himself, would see it.
    When we keep in mind that angel is the original word, but when translated, really means "messenger", we can certainly see how Nathaniel saw messengers, serving Jesus Christ. Jesus was telling Nathaniel, that the apostles and Jesus' Elect, would fulfill Gen.28:12.
    Who inherits the earth?
    Abraham's seed, who are those born again as spirit. They are those who serve Christ, by being messengers of the gospel of light and life. In God's future kingdom, they will traverse between heaven and earth, so that as Gen.28:14 said; "All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring."
    That quote is a parallel to Rev.22: "1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the trees of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. *And the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations."*
    We see that the trees of life that bear fine fruit, will heal/bless, all the nations. Jesus compared his messengers, to trees... their teachings, to fruit (Luke6:43-45; Matt.7:15-20).
    Rev.21 reads; "2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, *COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN from God,* prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Look! God’s dwelling-place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."
    When referring to those faithful servants of Christ, who become spirit-born sons of God; Gal.3 reads;
    "26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 *If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.*
    Those who belong to Christ (his body members... his messengers who serve him), become spiritual seed of Abraham. They inherit the promise made to Abraham.
    They, inherit the earth. They bring with them from heaven, healing and blessing to all the Nations.-
    And so, the doctrine of the WT that teaches that the anointed, never return to earth, is false.
    The teaching that there is a "heavenly hope" and an "earthly hope", is false.
    The teaching that JW "elders" are the "princes in all the earth" when God's kingdom arrives, is false.
    The teaching that JWs are the ones that inherit the earth, is false."
    Pearl Doxsey  - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2021/10/who-inherit-earth.html
     
    "For the creation eagerly waits with anticipation for God’s sons to be revealed.  For the creation was subjected to futility—not willingly, but because of him who subjected it—in the hope that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of corruption into the glorious freedom of God’s children.  For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together with labor pains until now."  Rom 8:19-22
    Jacob's Ladder
     
     
  7. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in "How can I explain 'the meek will inherit the earth' to my jw husband?"   
    "It all goes back to what God promised Abraham. God repeated that promise, to Abraham's grandson, Jacob. In fact, *the scriptures I'm going to give you, prove that JW doctrine is false.*
    At Gen.28: "10 Jacob left Beersheba and set out for Harran. 11 When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep. 12 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and *the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.* 13 There above it stood the Lord, and he said: ‘I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. *I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying.* 14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and *they will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring."*
    There we learn, that it is Abraham's seed, that will inherit the earth. But we learn more... The meaning of "angel", is messenger. Verse 12 tells us, that those messengers will be traveling between heaven and earth, and in the very next verse, says that the earth will belong to Abraham's seed and they will spread out to possess the entire planet.
    Why put the vision of the angels, along with the promise of the people who are going to Inherit the earth?
    At John1:51, Jesus told Nathaniel, "‘Very truly I tell you, you will see “heaven open, and *the angels of God ascending and descending in service to the Son of Man.’"*
    Jesus repeated the words that God told Jacob, but added that the angels/messengers, would be serving Christ, AND, that Nathaniel himself, would see it.
    When we keep in mind that angel is the original word, but when translated, really means "messenger", we can certainly see how Nathaniel saw messengers, serving Jesus Christ. Jesus was telling Nathaniel, that the apostles and Jesus' Elect, would fulfill Gen.28:12.
    Who inherits the earth?
    Abraham's seed, who are those born again as spirit. They are those who serve Christ, by being messengers of the gospel of light and life. In God's future kingdom, they will traverse between heaven and earth, so that as Gen.28:14 said; "All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring."
    That quote is a parallel to Rev.22: "1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the trees of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. *And the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations."*
    We see that the trees of life that bear fine fruit, will heal/bless, all the nations. Jesus compared his messengers, to trees... their teachings, to fruit (Luke6:43-45; Matt.7:15-20).
    Rev.21 reads; "2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, *COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN from God,* prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Look! God’s dwelling-place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."
    When referring to those faithful servants of Christ, who become spirit-born sons of God; Gal.3 reads;
    "26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 *If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.*
    Those who belong to Christ (his body members... his messengers who serve him), become spiritual seed of Abraham. They inherit the promise made to Abraham.
    They, inherit the earth. They bring with them from heaven, healing and blessing to all the Nations.-
    And so, the doctrine of the WT that teaches that the anointed, never return to earth, is false.
    The teaching that there is a "heavenly hope" and an "earthly hope", is false.
    The teaching that JW "elders" are the "princes in all the earth" when God's kingdom arrives, is false.
    The teaching that JWs are the ones that inherit the earth, is false."
    Pearl Doxsey  - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2021/10/who-inherit-earth.html
     
    "For the creation eagerly waits with anticipation for God’s sons to be revealed.  For the creation was subjected to futility—not willingly, but because of him who subjected it—in the hope that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of corruption into the glorious freedom of God’s children.  For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together with labor pains until now."  Rom 8:19-22
    Jacob's Ladder
     
     
  8. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    We are all being judged by the words of Jesus Christ as Morris said, who then bent his words into a tight ball of yarn for his benefit.  John 14:23  Our spiritual perception can be dulled by our own desires. It requires spiritual perception to understand the sins of God’s people today.
     Jesus said, “Don’t collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don’t break in and steal.”  Matt 6:19,20
    Idolaters set their mind/focus on earthly things, which is the whole concept of the Watchtower’s existence.
    “More than that, I now regard all things as liabilities compared to the far greater value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things—indeed, I regard them as dung!—that I may gain Christ, 9 and be found in him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ’s faithfulness—a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ’s faithfulness.
    Be imitators of me, brothers and sisters, and watch carefully those who are living this way, just as you have us as an example. 18 For many live, about whom I have often told you, and now, with tears, I tell you that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is the belly, they exult in their shame, and they think about earthly things. Phil 3 
    We have Jesus and the apostles as our pattern to follow in this matter.  JWs choose the pattern set by the GB without examining the scriptures, as you yourself have done.  God doesn’t choose that corrupt example, and His tolerance only goes so far. 
    The Lord said,
    “Go up and down through the streets of Jerusalem.
    Look around and see for yourselves.
    Search through its public squares.
    See if any of you can find a single person
    who deals honestly and tries to be truthful.
    If you can, then I will not punish this city.
    2 These people make promises in the name of the Lord.
    But the fact is, what they swear to is really a lie.”
    “These people have denied what the Lord says.  – the words of Jesus Christ.
    They have said, ‘That is not so!
    No harm will come to us.
    We will not experience war and famine.
    13 The prophets will prove to be full of wind.
    The Lord has not spoken through them.
    So, let what they say happen to them.’”
    “Proclaim this message among the descendants of Jacob.
    Make it known throughout Judah.
    21 Tell them: ‘Hear this,
    you foolish people who have no understanding,
    who have eyes but do not discern,
    who have ears but do not perceive:
    22 ‘You should fear me!’ says the Lord.
    ‘You should tremble in awe before me!
    Something horrible and shocking
    is going on in the land of Judah:
    31 The prophets prophesy lies.
    The priests exercise power by their own authority.
    And my people love to have it this way.
    But they will not be able to help you when the time of judgment comes! Jer 5
     
     
  9. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    JWs frequently compare the organization to the days of Moses leading the nation of Israel in the wilderness.  They tie these time periods together by saying they are both ‘theocratic organizations’.  However, do they acknowledge that Moses was an inspired prophet leading God’s people; and simply, their leaders are not by their own admittance? When making this comparison, do they acknowledge that God installed His priests, anointing them with holy oil, and giving them the assignment to teach the people His laws?  (Exod 28:41;29:7-9; Mal 2:7)
    The priesthood in Moses’ day was separated from the people to carry out this special work as ministers of God on behalf of the people. (Num 18:7,20; 3:10; Deut 17:9; 31:9) 
    In the early 1950’s it was stated in a JW magazine that the members of the “royal priesthood” were to be “teachers and guardians of the law of God”, providing evidence from  Mal 2:7; Lev 10:11; Deut 33:10; 17:9-11.  It said that the anointed priests had a ‘tremendous responsibility which God held them to’. They were to keep the people “on the right path”.   (Num 18:7,20; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9; Heb 13:15; Ezek 44:23; Jer 23:22)
    Are any of these words from the past magazine recognizable in “Jehovah’s organization” today? Like a chameleon blending into a wall unnoticed, the leadership of pathological liars has changed any bits of truth into untruths so gradually, that nothing seems amiss to present day JWs. (Ezek 13:3,6,7,14; Matt 24:24,25; Acts 13:9,10; Gal 1:6,7,11,12; 2 Pet 2:1-3; 1 Tim 4:1,2; Heb 12:15; 2 Pet 3:17; Rev 8: 10,11; 16:13-16)
    These changes have aided in the development, and capability of two “Beasts” to dominate and trample God’s priesthood into the dust, into an unclean state before God. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 9:1-6; 13:1,2,5-7;11,12,15-17) (Isa 29:2-4; Dan 7:23; Luke 21:20,24; 19:43,44; Eccl 3:20; 12:7; Rev 3:1,18)  
    We have an incomparable situation from that of Moses’ day, where the spirit-anointed priesthood has been shoved out of the position as active priests. Their value spoken of in the 1950’s has been dismissed by a large army’s power siege, under the guidance of a “wicked slave”.  (Ezek 34:21;Jer 4:16-21,27,28; Joel 2:2,17; Dan 7:19; 8:10,11,13; 11:31;Matt 24:48-51)
    The Levitical priesthood is under an eternal covenant with God, but His anointed priests have broken this promise God held them to, and have allowed the elder body said to “represent” God’s priests, to teach men’s laws founded on the principles of an earthly organization.   (Jer 33:18-21; Num 18:1,5,19; Heb 4:14,15; 8:10; 13:15) (Mal 2:8; Lam 2:9; Joel 2:17; Jer 5:3,11,30,31; 2 Chron 15:3; Luke 11:52;2 Thess 2:3,4)  
    But now, an earthly organization is proclaimed as the dwelling of God’s spirit. (Rom 1:25) This image of a “spirit-directed organization” is reflected through the representation of the elder body.  The men are said to have received Holy Spirit and authority to teach and judge, by the misapplication of scriptures, which rightfully apply to God’s holy priesthood.  (1 Kings 12:28-30; 13:33,34; Rev 13:11,12,15; 19:20) (John 20:23; 1 Cor 6:2,3;12:4-6,27; Eph 4:4,7,8,12,13; Rev 20:4)
    Replacing and silencing these “living stones of God’s spiritual dwelling, is an “abomination” according to God. (Num 3:10,38; 2 Chron 13:9,10; Ezek 8:6; 44:6-9; Matt 24:15,16; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 4:1; Heb 9:11; Eph 2:20-22)   
    And that does lead to a few apt comparisons to the time of Israel in the wilderness.  Besides the persistent tendency to neglect the word of the Holy One, there are two major correlations we can make.  The first was Korah’s attempt to usurp the priesthood.
    The organization comments, “When Korah and his associates in the wilderness wanted to exalt themselves to the priesthood and charged Moses and Aaron with taking too much on themselves, they proved that they did not appreciate theocratic organization.” (w 1952/Feb 1 pp. 76-85)
    Today, it is clearly evident that there is no appreciation for ‘theocratic organization’ in the anointed priesthood of God’s Temple under Jesus Christ. By the orders of the evil slave and her massive army, they are denied the ability to direct the people in truth.  (Zech 8:16; Prov 8:7;12:17; 2 Cor 4:1,2; 1 Tim 4:1; Dan 8:12)  This equates to removal of their “daily sacrifices” of praise and truth in Jesus, to the Father. (Dan 7:23; 8:10,11,13;11:31; John 15:4-6)
    All that has taken place in the organization, was prophesied to affect the remaining anointed ones in the last days – Christ’s “kings of the earth”. (Rev 12:17,15; Dan 11:10; Rev 16:13-16; 20;7-9; Luke 21:20) (Rev 1:5; 5:9,10)
    The other major comparison to Israel’s years in the wilderness, was the idolatry that broke out among them. (Exod 32:1) Their uprising, which led to fabricating a golden calf to “go before” the people, is seen through the fabrication that one must “keep in step with” – “moving ahead with Jehovah’s organization”. JWs have been stumbled by their leaders’ vision of their own minds, to “go before” them, thoroughly convinced that this idol will lead them into salvation. (Deut 7:26; Jer 14:14; Matt 16:23; 2 Pet 2:1-3; Rev 2:14; Isa 57:14)  
     Idols do come in all sizes and forms, and it has been said from their own mouths…
    "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization."  Wt 1990/11/1 p. 26 
    It was an act of physical and spiritual thievery to ask the people of Israel to contribute their gold for the making of the golden calf idol, even if they willingly handed it over.   Aaron succumbed to the pressure of the crowd’s fleshly desires. But how Aaron approached God in repentance concerning His failure to prevent idolatry, is not known.  Moses begged God for forgiveness on his behalf, and on behalf of the people.   (Exod 32:2-4,26, 30,31; Deut 9:18-20) 
    Not so with the governing leaders. They continue on their path of growing greed and support of the abomination present in the elder body. (Mark 13:14; Matt 24:48-51; Dan 2:33,43; Rev 13:11,12; 17:3)
    Every willing or begrudging contribution that is now mandatory to preserve and to build up the idol, is pure thievery. (Exod 20:3,4; Deut 4:23; Rom 16:17,18; Rom 1:25; 8:5; Mark 10:19;John 10:10)
     Every JW who submits to such pressure becomes the victim of spiritual abuse.  They are slaves to men and their earthly treasures. (1 Cor 7:23; Gal 1:10; Col 3:24; Col 2:8; Jude 1:4; Rev 13:10)
    Both of these major comparisons to Israel’s unfaithfulness in the past, are linked to the present. The gradual removal of the holy priesthood, has led to the solid installation of the idol/organization through the exaltation of the man of lawless/elder body.  This “body” that produces ‘stinging’ judgments against God’s holy people, stands “where it doesn’t belong”.  (Mark 13:14; Rev 9:7-10; 11:1,2; 13:5-7; Ezek 2:6) 
    In his prayer during the dedication of the temple he built for the name of God, King Solomon stressed the sovereignty of God, and the necessity of his servants to “walk in all His ways”,  keeping His commandments “with all their hearts”.   (1 Kings 8:23, 57,58) 
    We do not “walk” in the statutes of men or those of an organization whose needs are no different than another earthly entity. We “keep in step” with the statutes of God through His Son, Jesus Christ. We observe only, the decrees Jesus fulfilled in his coming, and in his teachings. (Matt 15:9; 1 Tim 6:3-5)   (1 Kings 2:3; 6:12;Micah 6:8; John 8:12 Matt 22:36-40; 5:17,18; 24:35; Rom 13:10; 2 Thess 3:6)
    The temple that Solomon built, was not to be worshipped.  1 Kings 8:27.  It was a house of prayer and sacrifices made for the atonement of sins; and where God graciously filled the temple with His glory and radiance.  Still, Solomon repeatedly stated that one’s prayers from the temple would be heard by God “in heaven, the place of your dwelling”.  (1 Kings 8:30,32,34,36; Gen 28:16,17)  Although God allowed His name to be on the temple as long as Israel was faithful, it was still the Almighty God who directed the nation of Israel, and not the temple where God’s Spirit rested.  (Exod 15:2; 20:2; Isa 43:11)
    In contrast, it is the organization which bears the name “Jehovah”, (and its nonanointed elders) that is continually stressed as the guiding authority over the lives of JWs.   (Exod 23:13; Eph 5:15,16; Judges 10:13,14; Isa 46:5-9)
    One of the hypocritical governing leaders who lives behind locked gates where men in a kiosk scrutinize all visitors arriving at their highly protected compound, stated to his listeners that God expects money to be given to the organization. Through these donations received, his fleshly desires are preserved; his prominence and power over the holy people and all JWs, remains intact. (Luke 4:5-7;Rom 8:5; Gal 5:16,17,24; Eph 4:20-24; 1 John 2:16; Col 3:5; 2 Tim 3:2; Jude 1:17,18)  
    He stated, “Now, the fact is we never beg for money, but that’s not to say we can’t talk about money in Jehovah’s organization, the earthly part”.
    Never beg for money?  When speaking of the future project on the gospels of Jesus, one governing partner said,  “In view of the large scope of this project we encourage you to make it a matter of prayer and please (said with lengthy emphasis), support it according to your circumstances”.
    God has no need for an earthly organization, when Zion is built on the Body of Jesus Christ and God’s chosen “living stones” of His priestly kings. They are the “organization” that God has sanctioned since the first century. They are the temple/dwelling of God’s spirit. (Isa 2:2,3; Zech 41 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22,10; Rev 5:9,10; 1 Cor 12:27; 14:1)
    So, why is this leader talking about money? The idol requires it, just as the idol in Moses’ day required people’s gold to create it. (1 Cor 10:7)  It can only exist if money is poured into it.  The leader admits, “Money has to be discussed in the last day, this system, meets a response in all things.”  We must ask then, what sets this organization apart from any other?  Where is God’s power and spirit in this apparently unusual “spirit-directed organization”? Where does the faith in God’s ability to provide for their needs, lie?  Their faith and trust is in the idol, and all idols need to be fed by the men who create them.  So the lie is fostered that God and the Father will love JWs, because they give their material possessions…to the idol. He used two scriptures to support this.
    The first is Deut 16:16,17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut+16%3A16%2C17&version=NIV
    What were the blessings brought before the Lord?  They were the “firstfruits” of the barley and wheat harvest, and of the olive and grape.  God blessed their plantings throughout the year leading to abundant harvests because of their obedience to His commandments. (Deut 16:13,15; 26:3-5; 30:9,10)   These feasts all held spiritual significance, which we find in Jesus’ presence on earth, his teachings, and God’s provision for redemption through his atoning sacrifice.  (Matt 1:23; 7:37,38; Rom 8:2; 1 Cor 5:7;15:20; Heb 4:15; Col 2:16,17; Mark 2:22) 
    Money holds no spiritual significance to God, and cannot preserve one’s good standing before Him, or prove our love for Him. We are judged on our love and obedience to His Word in Jesus Christ. (Deut 7:11-13; Eccl 7:12; Hos 6:6; Matt 6:19,20,24; Col 3:1,2,5-7; 1 Tim 6:6-10)
    He also cited 2 Cor 9:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+9%3A7&version=NIV
     Paul urged the uninhibited generous spread of the seed of truth, and the generous giving to the poor and suffering.  (2 Cor 9:10,8)  Please read 2 Cor 8:13-15 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+8%3A13-15&version=CSB -
    Neither the sharing of and need of truth, nor physical provisions for the poor are met in the organization.  There is no fairness or equality with Bible truth in either regard, as men who live a worry-free comfortable life, breathe and propagate lying doctrines. (Prov 5:3,4,7-14; Heb 12:14,15; Rev 8:10,11; 18:7,8) 
     Pearl Doxsey:
    We learn from God's own Word, about the sacrifices that He is pleased with. 
    Three scriptures come to mind... 2 Cor 9:7-13; 8:11,12; Philemon 1:14
    They contain the lesson that our gift is decided in our own heart, between us and God alone. No compulsion should be felt, but our gift is rooted in love and joy. God then blesses our charitable work, by supplying all we need to continue in it, while we also reap abundant blessing for ourselves. Through such a relationship with God's truth and the life that results, all, are refreshed, sustained, and built up. There is no sense of burden, comparison, competition, or failure. Such things come from the wicked one, and those who assist Satan to shackle men with a bondage to Idols.
    Rules, standards, human expectations, and counting, do not serve the will, truth, or purpose of God (Matt 15:9; Mark 7:13).
    Those things only serve the unlawful, worldly power and desires, of men, and the purpose of Satan.
    "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)
     “Service” - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/01/service.html
    The poor and needy must provide not only for their own needs, but donate to the desires of the leaders, and to the needs of their idol. Using the example of the widow’s contribution to the temple in Jesus’ day, the speaker had the impudence to tell the poor, “So even when we’re poor we’re expected to give monetarily, it’s because we love Jehovah, love Jesus”   (Mark 12:41-44)
    The Watchtower Corporation is laden with stock holdings and investments. The money they receive, have, spend, and invest, is of primary interest to its governors (Matt 6:21). 
    The NMB version of the Bible states; "No man who wars, entangles himself with worldly business, because he wants to please him who has chosen him to be a soldier." (2 Tim 2:4). 
    Jesus has chosen the members of his Elect, to battle with him against religious falsehood. (2 Tim 2:3,4; 2 Cor 10:3-5; Rev 17:14; Eph 6:11,12; 5:11). 
    His faithful anointed will not prioritize or focus on, materialism (Matt 6:19-21,24,25,26,28-32).
    The GB speaker’s comparison to the early temple in Jerusalem where God removed His Spirit for rejecting his Son, should certainly clue us in to the identity of today’s idol/”temple”, as “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization”.  This Jewish system was also corrupt; the Pharisees had added their own laws to the laws of God, which Jesus referenced as burdens put upon the people.  (Matt 11:28; 23:4;16:11,12) The division between the rich and the poor was widened under the Roman Gentile domination.  The widow dropped her coins into one of 13 chests marked for the donation’s use, (sound familiar?) whether it was for sacrifices, voluntary contributions for the poor, or mandatory obligations.   These chests were shaped like trumpets, with large funnels playing back the sound of the money dropping in.  Knowing this, brings more clarity to Jesus’ words in Matt 6:2. 
    There was no balance stressed by Paul in 2 Cor 8:13-15.  If the widow dropped in “all she had to live on”, was she a recipient as a poor one, from the temple’s treasury?  For a certainty, the poor in the organization are not the recipients of its “treasury”.  (Isa 58:1,6-7; 2 Thess 3:7-9;1 Thess 2:9; James 2:1-7)
    Jesus said, “Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”  (Mark 12:7)   This nonprofit organization (and he called it such) follows strict guidelines and codes when building their “Bethels”. They seek tax exempt status, which requires registration with the government.  They are in essence, under the management of the government by following certain regulations.  This is the crux of the GB’s statement that “money has to be discussed” and “meets a response in all things” in this system.  Solomon’s temple and its building was not influenced by a government, yet when God’s people sinned, outside nations obtained dominion and power over His people, Jerusalem, and the temple.  
    Within this idolized nonprofit “spirit-directed organization”, God’s spiritual Temple has been dominated by a foreign nation – a “Gentile” take-over.  (1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2; Rev 13:4,7) Under the compulsion of God’s priests to remain silent, chained and branded by an organization of false doctrines, spiritual famine is pervasive; and a plague of corruption, disease and affliction of the heart, has come upon them and those in their company. (1 Kings 8:37-40; Ezek 14:3; Prov 23:6-8; Isa 29:7,8; Zech 10:2; Amos 8:11-13; Rev 2:9; 9:20; 13:7,16,17;16:2; 2 Thess 2:7-10) The congregations suffer in the spiritual sense; and in many areas of the world, the constant burden exists to give out of the few resources one has, expected contributions to the idol. 
    Citing John 14:23 was a very desperate choice to give credence to the leader’s decrees, because Jesus’ words in general, condemned accumulating worldly riches and storing up treasures on earth.
    Satan had offered Jesus earthly power, riches and authority over the “kingdoms of the world/earth”, but he rejected all of it. (Luke 4:5-7) He stated, “my kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36), so why would Jesus approve of men’s desires to establish his kingdom under his authority in this world, and attempt to put God’s name on it?  The Kingdom reign of Jesus Christ is one of “grace and truth”, far superior than any power, riches and authority this world has to offer. (John 1:14,17; Eph 1:19-21)
    Please consider the understanding of today’s spiritual Temple as being the anointed priesthood where God’s spirit dwells. Only His decrees are written on their hearts. (Deut 6:4-8; 2 Cor 6:16; John 14:23; Rom 5:5;2 Cor 3:3; Heb 10:16)  
    The anointed over the years have been taken captive by this Beast/organization. (Luke 22:31; 1 Pet 5:8; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10; 12:17) Those who have confronted it with truth in imitation of their Head, Jesus Christ, have faced persecution for their testimony of Jesus. (John 15:20; 16:2; 1 Pet 4:12,13; Rev 12:17;13:15; 6:9,11) The faithful “living stones”, made in the ‘image and likeness of God’, will bear the name of God and Jesus Christ in the Kingdom. (Rev 3:12) They and those who gather with them under Jesus' protection and care, will worship the Almighty Father in “spirit and truth”. (Gen 1:27; Matt 5:48; Col 3:10;Eph 5:7-10; Eph 4:24) (John 4:22-24)
     
    https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/
    Daniel Chapter Eleven, verses 31-45 
    Armageddon 
    "Mankind" / "Son of Man" / "Man' of Lawlessness" - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2

  10. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in Issue with sound, tones and rhythm as songs are sung   
    Well, there wasn't a lot that she was allowed to comment on - "poor posture" inhibits good singing.  Seemed like such an important meeting, all the while stuff like this is happening:
    exjwReddit:  "Just informed of a child sexual predator in the hall."
    "So my wife and I were informed by the elders that we are to review chapter 32 of the learn from the great teacher book. Which I was like ok what's this about?..
    The next thing out of their mouths shocked me. Don't let your children be around or alone with Brother so-and-so....ever. Zoom breakout rooms or when we return to in person services.
    Me being a paranoid father goes into our states very easy to use sex offender registry. All the nearby territory zip codes and our territory zip codes and he's not registered...
    So is he a predator that has only been caught and disciplined in the congregation? And to be so hush hush about it that you had to have a special meeting to tell us as parents. Shouldn't everyone know there is a sexual predator in their presence?
    Is this just more evidence that they cover this shit up and even in my own congregation?
    As if I didn't have enough reason not to return to the hall in person. This just cements my determination to never return. They put all the responsibility of the predator on us and we have to be on alert at all times, especially the meetings?
    I thought the meetings were a spiritual paradise a place to be protected from the world. Seems we are more in danger in what's supposed to be a safe place."
  11. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Issue with sound, tones and rhythm as songs are sung   
    Well, there wasn't a lot that she was allowed to comment on - "poor posture" inhibits good singing.  Seemed like such an important meeting, all the while stuff like this is happening:
    exjwReddit:  "Just informed of a child sexual predator in the hall."
    "So my wife and I were informed by the elders that we are to review chapter 32 of the learn from the great teacher book. Which I was like ok what's this about?..
    The next thing out of their mouths shocked me. Don't let your children be around or alone with Brother so-and-so....ever. Zoom breakout rooms or when we return to in person services.
    Me being a paranoid father goes into our states very easy to use sex offender registry. All the nearby territory zip codes and our territory zip codes and he's not registered...
    So is he a predator that has only been caught and disciplined in the congregation? And to be so hush hush about it that you had to have a special meeting to tell us as parents. Shouldn't everyone know there is a sexual predator in their presence?
    Is this just more evidence that they cover this shit up and even in my own congregation?
    As if I didn't have enough reason not to return to the hall in person. This just cements my determination to never return. They put all the responsibility of the predator on us and we have to be on alert at all times, especially the meetings?
    I thought the meetings were a spiritual paradise a place to be protected from the world. Seems we are more in danger in what's supposed to be a safe place."
  12. Thanks
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Issue with sound, tones and rhythm as songs are sung   
    Just seen on YT. Here is a JW committee where a woman can also participate in decisions led by men.
    But that triggered another story i have heard. Imagine married couple. Wife is talented for music and singing. And she is looking forward to being able to be part of a choir to sing “theocratic” songs. The husband is looking forward to the same and they apply as volunteers. But one needs to pass a rehearsal in order to be a part of the choir. Unfortunately, the husband has no hearing at all and he drops out of the election. That means, neither wife has the opportunity to join the choir. ....... But there is a solution. The husband is talented at laying gypsum boards and smoothing boards. And here’s a wonderful opportunity for both of them to volunteer. Now it is only up to the wife to be happy as she helps with the installation of the drywall and their treatment, .... and she can hum while working on the construction site. This is what unity, hierarchy and submission to the husband mean. What a wonderful spiritual paradise.
     
     
  13. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...   
    Another "set" time?
     
    This is judgment, Adam and Eve faced judgment.  The "flaming blade of a sword" is the fire of God's Word.  "Is not my word like fire, declares the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?"  Jer 23:29
    "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."  Heb 4:12
     
     
     
  14. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...   
    Another "set" time?
     
    This is judgment, Adam and Eve faced judgment.  The "flaming blade of a sword" is the fire of God's Word.  "Is not my word like fire, declares the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?"  Jer 23:29
    "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."  Heb 4:12
     
     
     
  15. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Dmitar in Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...   
    Jesus, is the tree of life.  If Satan had his "eyes" on it, it was to bring about his enemy's destruction. (Gen 3:15) The anointed, are also referred to as "trees".  (Matt 7:17,20; John 6:57,58,63;17:2;6:44,45; Rev 2:7; Ps 1:3; Rev 22:2,14)  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+7%3A17%2C20%3B+John+6%3A57%2C58%2C63%3B17%3A2%3B6%3A44%2C45%3B+Rev+2%3A7%3B+Ps+1%3A3%3B+Rev+22%3A2%2C14&version=NIV
    The choice was given to Adam and Eve which "tree" to eat from, with the consequences for choosing the lies of Satan, instead of the "tree" of truth in the Word of God.  John 1:1  We also have that choice.  2 Thess 2:9,10
    Two Trees - Past and Present
  16. Like
    Witness reacted to xero in Odd things you learn (if these are true) when you read other things   
    So I'm reading yet another apologetic work and this one is coming at things from a Jewish perspective.
    One thing I  just listened to was w/regard to the following passage:
    10  He said to them: “Look! When you enter into the city, a man carrying an earthenware water jar will meet you. Follow him into the house that he enters. - Lk. 22:10
    This was one of many passages I just sort of never thought about because it seemed like the stater coin fishing thing-tax episode - an Obie-wan Kenobi kind of "these are not your droids" moment.
    Then he said something a bit like the following:
    https://preachitteachit.org/articles/detail/little-known-facts-about-the-last-supper/
    Only women carried water jars.
    As to the other things  - I don't know.
     
  17. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...   
    Jesus, is the tree of life.  If Satan had his "eyes" on it, it was to bring about his enemy's destruction. (Gen 3:15) The anointed, are also referred to as "trees".  (Matt 7:17,20; John 6:57,58,63;17:2;6:44,45; Rev 2:7; Ps 1:3; Rev 22:2,14)  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+7%3A17%2C20%3B+John+6%3A57%2C58%2C63%3B17%3A2%3B6%3A44%2C45%3B+Rev+2%3A7%3B+Ps+1%3A3%3B+Rev+22%3A2%2C14&version=NIV
    The choice was given to Adam and Eve which "tree" to eat from, with the consequences for choosing the lies of Satan, instead of the "tree" of truth in the Word of God.  John 1:1  We also have that choice.  2 Thess 2:9,10
    Two Trees - Past and Present
  18. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    That's funny because the Leaders of the JWs used to say that the Org was the new Ark 
  19. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Matthew9969 in Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...   
    So not agreeing with the governing body is a sin worthy of death?
  20. Like
    Witness reacted to Matthew9969 in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    I don't remember Noah demanding financial donations to build the ark and legal assistance for his sons.
  21. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    We are all being judged by the words of Jesus Christ as Morris said, who then bent his words into a tight ball of yarn for his benefit.  John 14:23  Our spiritual perception can be dulled by our own desires. It requires spiritual perception to understand the sins of God’s people today.
     Jesus said, “Don’t collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don’t break in and steal.”  Matt 6:19,20
    Idolaters set their mind/focus on earthly things, which is the whole concept of the Watchtower’s existence.
    “More than that, I now regard all things as liabilities compared to the far greater value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things—indeed, I regard them as dung!—that I may gain Christ, 9 and be found in him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ’s faithfulness—a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ’s faithfulness.
    Be imitators of me, brothers and sisters, and watch carefully those who are living this way, just as you have us as an example. 18 For many live, about whom I have often told you, and now, with tears, I tell you that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is the belly, they exult in their shame, and they think about earthly things. Phil 3 
    We have Jesus and the apostles as our pattern to follow in this matter.  JWs choose the pattern set by the GB without examining the scriptures, as you yourself have done.  God doesn’t choose that corrupt example, and His tolerance only goes so far. 
    The Lord said,
    “Go up and down through the streets of Jerusalem.
    Look around and see for yourselves.
    Search through its public squares.
    See if any of you can find a single person
    who deals honestly and tries to be truthful.
    If you can, then I will not punish this city.
    2 These people make promises in the name of the Lord.
    But the fact is, what they swear to is really a lie.”
    “These people have denied what the Lord says.  – the words of Jesus Christ.
    They have said, ‘That is not so!
    No harm will come to us.
    We will not experience war and famine.
    13 The prophets will prove to be full of wind.
    The Lord has not spoken through them.
    So, let what they say happen to them.’”
    “Proclaim this message among the descendants of Jacob.
    Make it known throughout Judah.
    21 Tell them: ‘Hear this,
    you foolish people who have no understanding,
    who have eyes but do not discern,
    who have ears but do not perceive:
    22 ‘You should fear me!’ says the Lord.
    ‘You should tremble in awe before me!
    Something horrible and shocking
    is going on in the land of Judah:
    31 The prophets prophesy lies.
    The priests exercise power by their own authority.
    And my people love to have it this way.
    But they will not be able to help you when the time of judgment comes! Jer 5
     
     
  22. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    We are all being judged by the words of Jesus Christ as Morris said, who then bent his words into a tight ball of yarn for his benefit.  John 14:23  Our spiritual perception can be dulled by our own desires. It requires spiritual perception to understand the sins of God’s people today.
     Jesus said, “Don’t collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don’t break in and steal.”  Matt 6:19,20
    Idolaters set their mind/focus on earthly things, which is the whole concept of the Watchtower’s existence.
    “More than that, I now regard all things as liabilities compared to the far greater value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things—indeed, I regard them as dung!—that I may gain Christ, 9 and be found in him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ’s faithfulness—a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ’s faithfulness.
    Be imitators of me, brothers and sisters, and watch carefully those who are living this way, just as you have us as an example. 18 For many live, about whom I have often told you, and now, with tears, I tell you that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is the belly, they exult in their shame, and they think about earthly things. Phil 3 
    We have Jesus and the apostles as our pattern to follow in this matter.  JWs choose the pattern set by the GB without examining the scriptures, as you yourself have done.  God doesn’t choose that corrupt example, and His tolerance only goes so far. 
    The Lord said,
    “Go up and down through the streets of Jerusalem.
    Look around and see for yourselves.
    Search through its public squares.
    See if any of you can find a single person
    who deals honestly and tries to be truthful.
    If you can, then I will not punish this city.
    2 These people make promises in the name of the Lord.
    But the fact is, what they swear to is really a lie.”
    “These people have denied what the Lord says.  – the words of Jesus Christ.
    They have said, ‘That is not so!
    No harm will come to us.
    We will not experience war and famine.
    13 The prophets will prove to be full of wind.
    The Lord has not spoken through them.
    So, let what they say happen to them.’”
    “Proclaim this message among the descendants of Jacob.
    Make it known throughout Judah.
    21 Tell them: ‘Hear this,
    you foolish people who have no understanding,
    who have eyes but do not discern,
    who have ears but do not perceive:
    22 ‘You should fear me!’ says the Lord.
    ‘You should tremble in awe before me!
    Something horrible and shocking
    is going on in the land of Judah:
    31 The prophets prophesy lies.
    The priests exercise power by their own authority.
    And my people love to have it this way.
    But they will not be able to help you when the time of judgment comes! Jer 5
     
     
  23. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Kick_Faceinator in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    JWs frequently compare the organization to the days of Moses leading the nation of Israel in the wilderness.  They tie these time periods together by saying they are both ‘theocratic organizations’.  However, do they acknowledge that Moses was an inspired prophet leading God’s people; and simply, their leaders are not by their own admittance? When making this comparison, do they acknowledge that God installed His priests, anointing them with holy oil, and giving them the assignment to teach the people His laws?  (Exod 28:41;29:7-9; Mal 2:7)
    The priesthood in Moses’ day was separated from the people to carry out this special work as ministers of God on behalf of the people. (Num 18:7,20; 3:10; Deut 17:9; 31:9) 
    In the early 1950’s it was stated in a JW magazine that the members of the “royal priesthood” were to be “teachers and guardians of the law of God”, providing evidence from  Mal 2:7; Lev 10:11; Deut 33:10; 17:9-11.  It said that the anointed priests had a ‘tremendous responsibility which God held them to’. They were to keep the people “on the right path”.   (Num 18:7,20; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9; Heb 13:15; Ezek 44:23; Jer 23:22)
    Are any of these words from the past magazine recognizable in “Jehovah’s organization” today? Like a chameleon blending into a wall unnoticed, the leadership of pathological liars has changed any bits of truth into untruths so gradually, that nothing seems amiss to present day JWs. (Ezek 13:3,6,7,14; Matt 24:24,25; Acts 13:9,10; Gal 1:6,7,11,12; 2 Pet 2:1-3; 1 Tim 4:1,2; Heb 12:15; 2 Pet 3:17; Rev 8: 10,11; 16:13-16)
    These changes have aided in the development, and capability of two “Beasts” to dominate and trample God’s priesthood into the dust, into an unclean state before God. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 9:1-6; 13:1,2,5-7;11,12,15-17) (Isa 29:2-4; Dan 7:23; Luke 21:20,24; 19:43,44; Eccl 3:20; 12:7; Rev 3:1,18)  
    We have an incomparable situation from that of Moses’ day, where the spirit-anointed priesthood has been shoved out of the position as active priests. Their value spoken of in the 1950’s has been dismissed by a large army’s power siege, under the guidance of a “wicked slave”.  (Ezek 34:21;Jer 4:16-21,27,28; Joel 2:2,17; Dan 7:19; 8:10,11,13; 11:31;Matt 24:48-51)
    The Levitical priesthood is under an eternal covenant with God, but His anointed priests have broken this promise God held them to, and have allowed the elder body said to “represent” God’s priests, to teach men’s laws founded on the principles of an earthly organization.   (Jer 33:18-21; Num 18:1,5,19; Heb 4:14,15; 8:10; 13:15) (Mal 2:8; Lam 2:9; Joel 2:17; Jer 5:3,11,30,31; 2 Chron 15:3; Luke 11:52;2 Thess 2:3,4)  
    But now, an earthly organization is proclaimed as the dwelling of God’s spirit. (Rom 1:25) This image of a “spirit-directed organization” is reflected through the representation of the elder body.  The men are said to have received Holy Spirit and authority to teach and judge, by the misapplication of scriptures, which rightfully apply to God’s holy priesthood.  (1 Kings 12:28-30; 13:33,34; Rev 13:11,12,15; 19:20) (John 20:23; 1 Cor 6:2,3;12:4-6,27; Eph 4:4,7,8,12,13; Rev 20:4)
    Replacing and silencing these “living stones of God’s spiritual dwelling, is an “abomination” according to God. (Num 3:10,38; 2 Chron 13:9,10; Ezek 8:6; 44:6-9; Matt 24:15,16; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 4:1; Heb 9:11; Eph 2:20-22)   
    And that does lead to a few apt comparisons to the time of Israel in the wilderness.  Besides the persistent tendency to neglect the word of the Holy One, there are two major correlations we can make.  The first was Korah’s attempt to usurp the priesthood.
    The organization comments, “When Korah and his associates in the wilderness wanted to exalt themselves to the priesthood and charged Moses and Aaron with taking too much on themselves, they proved that they did not appreciate theocratic organization.” (w 1952/Feb 1 pp. 76-85)
    Today, it is clearly evident that there is no appreciation for ‘theocratic organization’ in the anointed priesthood of God’s Temple under Jesus Christ. By the orders of the evil slave and her massive army, they are denied the ability to direct the people in truth.  (Zech 8:16; Prov 8:7;12:17; 2 Cor 4:1,2; 1 Tim 4:1; Dan 8:12)  This equates to removal of their “daily sacrifices” of praise and truth in Jesus, to the Father. (Dan 7:23; 8:10,11,13;11:31; John 15:4-6)
    All that has taken place in the organization, was prophesied to affect the remaining anointed ones in the last days – Christ’s “kings of the earth”. (Rev 12:17,15; Dan 11:10; Rev 16:13-16; 20;7-9; Luke 21:20) (Rev 1:5; 5:9,10)
    The other major comparison to Israel’s years in the wilderness, was the idolatry that broke out among them. (Exod 32:1) Their uprising, which led to fabricating a golden calf to “go before” the people, is seen through the fabrication that one must “keep in step with” – “moving ahead with Jehovah’s organization”. JWs have been stumbled by their leaders’ vision of their own minds, to “go before” them, thoroughly convinced that this idol will lead them into salvation. (Deut 7:26; Jer 14:14; Matt 16:23; 2 Pet 2:1-3; Rev 2:14; Isa 57:14)  
     Idols do come in all sizes and forms, and it has been said from their own mouths…
    "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization."  Wt 1990/11/1 p. 26 
    It was an act of physical and spiritual thievery to ask the people of Israel to contribute their gold for the making of the golden calf idol, even if they willingly handed it over.   Aaron succumbed to the pressure of the crowd’s fleshly desires. But how Aaron approached God in repentance concerning His failure to prevent idolatry, is not known.  Moses begged God for forgiveness on his behalf, and on behalf of the people.   (Exod 32:2-4,26, 30,31; Deut 9:18-20) 
    Not so with the governing leaders. They continue on their path of growing greed and support of the abomination present in the elder body. (Mark 13:14; Matt 24:48-51; Dan 2:33,43; Rev 13:11,12; 17:3)
    Every willing or begrudging contribution that is now mandatory to preserve and to build up the idol, is pure thievery. (Exod 20:3,4; Deut 4:23; Rom 16:17,18; Rom 1:25; 8:5; Mark 10:19;John 10:10)
     Every JW who submits to such pressure becomes the victim of spiritual abuse.  They are slaves to men and their earthly treasures. (1 Cor 7:23; Gal 1:10; Col 3:24; Col 2:8; Jude 1:4; Rev 13:10)
    Both of these major comparisons to Israel’s unfaithfulness in the past, are linked to the present. The gradual removal of the holy priesthood, has led to the solid installation of the idol/organization through the exaltation of the man of lawless/elder body.  This “body” that produces ‘stinging’ judgments against God’s holy people, stands “where it doesn’t belong”.  (Mark 13:14; Rev 9:7-10; 11:1,2; 13:5-7; Ezek 2:6) 
    In his prayer during the dedication of the temple he built for the name of God, King Solomon stressed the sovereignty of God, and the necessity of his servants to “walk in all His ways”,  keeping His commandments “with all their hearts”.   (1 Kings 8:23, 57,58) 
    We do not “walk” in the statutes of men or those of an organization whose needs are no different than another earthly entity. We “keep in step” with the statutes of God through His Son, Jesus Christ. We observe only, the decrees Jesus fulfilled in his coming, and in his teachings. (Matt 15:9; 1 Tim 6:3-5)   (1 Kings 2:3; 6:12;Micah 6:8; John 8:12 Matt 22:36-40; 5:17,18; 24:35; Rom 13:10; 2 Thess 3:6)
    The temple that Solomon built, was not to be worshipped.  1 Kings 8:27.  It was a house of prayer and sacrifices made for the atonement of sins; and where God graciously filled the temple with His glory and radiance.  Still, Solomon repeatedly stated that one’s prayers from the temple would be heard by God “in heaven, the place of your dwelling”.  (1 Kings 8:30,32,34,36; Gen 28:16,17)  Although God allowed His name to be on the temple as long as Israel was faithful, it was still the Almighty God who directed the nation of Israel, and not the temple where God’s Spirit rested.  (Exod 15:2; 20:2; Isa 43:11)
    In contrast, it is the organization which bears the name “Jehovah”, (and its nonanointed elders) that is continually stressed as the guiding authority over the lives of JWs.   (Exod 23:13; Eph 5:15,16; Judges 10:13,14; Isa 46:5-9)
    One of the hypocritical governing leaders who lives behind locked gates where men in a kiosk scrutinize all visitors arriving at their highly protected compound, stated to his listeners that God expects money to be given to the organization. Through these donations received, his fleshly desires are preserved; his prominence and power over the holy people and all JWs, remains intact. (Luke 4:5-7;Rom 8:5; Gal 5:16,17,24; Eph 4:20-24; 1 John 2:16; Col 3:5; 2 Tim 3:2; Jude 1:17,18)  
    He stated, “Now, the fact is we never beg for money, but that’s not to say we can’t talk about money in Jehovah’s organization, the earthly part”.
    Never beg for money?  When speaking of the future project on the gospels of Jesus, one governing partner said,  “In view of the large scope of this project we encourage you to make it a matter of prayer and please (said with lengthy emphasis), support it according to your circumstances”.
    God has no need for an earthly organization, when Zion is built on the Body of Jesus Christ and God’s chosen “living stones” of His priestly kings. They are the “organization” that God has sanctioned since the first century. They are the temple/dwelling of God’s spirit. (Isa 2:2,3; Zech 41 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22,10; Rev 5:9,10; 1 Cor 12:27; 14:1)
    So, why is this leader talking about money? The idol requires it, just as the idol in Moses’ day required people’s gold to create it. (1 Cor 10:7)  It can only exist if money is poured into it.  The leader admits, “Money has to be discussed in the last day, this system, meets a response in all things.”  We must ask then, what sets this organization apart from any other?  Where is God’s power and spirit in this apparently unusual “spirit-directed organization”? Where does the faith in God’s ability to provide for their needs, lie?  Their faith and trust is in the idol, and all idols need to be fed by the men who create them.  So the lie is fostered that God and the Father will love JWs, because they give their material possessions…to the idol. He used two scriptures to support this.
    The first is Deut 16:16,17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut+16%3A16%2C17&version=NIV
    What were the blessings brought before the Lord?  They were the “firstfruits” of the barley and wheat harvest, and of the olive and grape.  God blessed their plantings throughout the year leading to abundant harvests because of their obedience to His commandments. (Deut 16:13,15; 26:3-5; 30:9,10)   These feasts all held spiritual significance, which we find in Jesus’ presence on earth, his teachings, and God’s provision for redemption through his atoning sacrifice.  (Matt 1:23; 7:37,38; Rom 8:2; 1 Cor 5:7;15:20; Heb 4:15; Col 2:16,17; Mark 2:22) 
    Money holds no spiritual significance to God, and cannot preserve one’s good standing before Him, or prove our love for Him. We are judged on our love and obedience to His Word in Jesus Christ. (Deut 7:11-13; Eccl 7:12; Hos 6:6; Matt 6:19,20,24; Col 3:1,2,5-7; 1 Tim 6:6-10)
    He also cited 2 Cor 9:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+9%3A7&version=NIV
     Paul urged the uninhibited generous spread of the seed of truth, and the generous giving to the poor and suffering.  (2 Cor 9:10,8)  Please read 2 Cor 8:13-15 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+8%3A13-15&version=CSB -
    Neither the sharing of and need of truth, nor physical provisions for the poor are met in the organization.  There is no fairness or equality with Bible truth in either regard, as men who live a worry-free comfortable life, breathe and propagate lying doctrines. (Prov 5:3,4,7-14; Heb 12:14,15; Rev 8:10,11; 18:7,8) 
     Pearl Doxsey:
    We learn from God's own Word, about the sacrifices that He is pleased with. 
    Three scriptures come to mind... 2 Cor 9:7-13; 8:11,12; Philemon 1:14
    They contain the lesson that our gift is decided in our own heart, between us and God alone. No compulsion should be felt, but our gift is rooted in love and joy. God then blesses our charitable work, by supplying all we need to continue in it, while we also reap abundant blessing for ourselves. Through such a relationship with God's truth and the life that results, all, are refreshed, sustained, and built up. There is no sense of burden, comparison, competition, or failure. Such things come from the wicked one, and those who assist Satan to shackle men with a bondage to Idols.
    Rules, standards, human expectations, and counting, do not serve the will, truth, or purpose of God (Matt 15:9; Mark 7:13).
    Those things only serve the unlawful, worldly power and desires, of men, and the purpose of Satan.
    "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:32)
     “Service” - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/01/service.html
    The poor and needy must provide not only for their own needs, but donate to the desires of the leaders, and to the needs of their idol. Using the example of the widow’s contribution to the temple in Jesus’ day, the speaker had the impudence to tell the poor, “So even when we’re poor we’re expected to give monetarily, it’s because we love Jehovah, love Jesus”   (Mark 12:41-44)
    The Watchtower Corporation is laden with stock holdings and investments. The money they receive, have, spend, and invest, is of primary interest to its governors (Matt 6:21). 
    The NMB version of the Bible states; "No man who wars, entangles himself with worldly business, because he wants to please him who has chosen him to be a soldier." (2 Tim 2:4). 
    Jesus has chosen the members of his Elect, to battle with him against religious falsehood. (2 Tim 2:3,4; 2 Cor 10:3-5; Rev 17:14; Eph 6:11,12; 5:11). 
    His faithful anointed will not prioritize or focus on, materialism (Matt 6:19-21,24,25,26,28-32).
    The GB speaker’s comparison to the early temple in Jerusalem where God removed His Spirit for rejecting his Son, should certainly clue us in to the identity of today’s idol/”temple”, as “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization”.  This Jewish system was also corrupt; the Pharisees had added their own laws to the laws of God, which Jesus referenced as burdens put upon the people.  (Matt 11:28; 23:4;16:11,12) The division between the rich and the poor was widened under the Roman Gentile domination.  The widow dropped her coins into one of 13 chests marked for the donation’s use, (sound familiar?) whether it was for sacrifices, voluntary contributions for the poor, or mandatory obligations.   These chests were shaped like trumpets, with large funnels playing back the sound of the money dropping in.  Knowing this, brings more clarity to Jesus’ words in Matt 6:2. 
    There was no balance stressed by Paul in 2 Cor 8:13-15.  If the widow dropped in “all she had to live on”, was she a recipient as a poor one, from the temple’s treasury?  For a certainty, the poor in the organization are not the recipients of its “treasury”.  (Isa 58:1,6-7; 2 Thess 3:7-9;1 Thess 2:9; James 2:1-7)
    Jesus said, “Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”  (Mark 12:7)   This nonprofit organization (and he called it such) follows strict guidelines and codes when building their “Bethels”. They seek tax exempt status, which requires registration with the government.  They are in essence, under the management of the government by following certain regulations.  This is the crux of the GB’s statement that “money has to be discussed” and “meets a response in all things” in this system.  Solomon’s temple and its building was not influenced by a government, yet when God’s people sinned, outside nations obtained dominion and power over His people, Jerusalem, and the temple.  
    Within this idolized nonprofit “spirit-directed organization”, God’s spiritual Temple has been dominated by a foreign nation – a “Gentile” take-over.  (1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2; Rev 13:4,7) Under the compulsion of God’s priests to remain silent, chained and branded by an organization of false doctrines, spiritual famine is pervasive; and a plague of corruption, disease and affliction of the heart, has come upon them and those in their company. (1 Kings 8:37-40; Ezek 14:3; Prov 23:6-8; Isa 29:7,8; Zech 10:2; Amos 8:11-13; Rev 2:9; 9:20; 13:7,16,17;16:2; 2 Thess 2:7-10) The congregations suffer in the spiritual sense; and in many areas of the world, the constant burden exists to give out of the few resources one has, expected contributions to the idol. 
    Citing John 14:23 was a very desperate choice to give credence to the leader’s decrees, because Jesus’ words in general, condemned accumulating worldly riches and storing up treasures on earth.
    Satan had offered Jesus earthly power, riches and authority over the “kingdoms of the world/earth”, but he rejected all of it. (Luke 4:5-7) He stated, “my kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36), so why would Jesus approve of men’s desires to establish his kingdom under his authority in this world, and attempt to put God’s name on it?  The Kingdom reign of Jesus Christ is one of “grace and truth”, far superior than any power, riches and authority this world has to offer. (John 1:14,17; Eph 1:19-21)
    Please consider the understanding of today’s spiritual Temple as being the anointed priesthood where God’s spirit dwells. Only His decrees are written on their hearts. (Deut 6:4-8; 2 Cor 6:16; John 14:23; Rom 5:5;2 Cor 3:3; Heb 10:16)  
    The anointed over the years have been taken captive by this Beast/organization. (Luke 22:31; 1 Pet 5:8; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10; 12:17) Those who have confronted it with truth in imitation of their Head, Jesus Christ, have faced persecution for their testimony of Jesus. (John 15:20; 16:2; 1 Pet 4:12,13; Rev 12:17;13:15; 6:9,11) The faithful “living stones”, made in the ‘image and likeness of God’, will bear the name of God and Jesus Christ in the Kingdom. (Rev 3:12) They and those who gather with them under Jesus' protection and care, will worship the Almighty Father in “spirit and truth”. (Gen 1:27; Matt 5:48; Col 3:10;Eph 5:7-10; Eph 4:24) (John 4:22-24)
     
    https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/
    Daniel Chapter Eleven, verses 31-45 
    Armageddon 
    "Mankind" / "Son of Man" / "Man' of Lawlessness" - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2

  24. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    But the GB did write in the Watchtower magazine that the Anointed would not want to meet together for prayer or Bible study, and the GB wrote that the Anointed would be 'working against the Holy spirit' if they did meet together for such things. The GB put that in writing so it cannot be denied. 
    As for divorce and adultery, I've seem plenty of it in the congregations I've been in, here in England. 
    And again, as for corrupting justice, we only need to look at the CSA judicial decisions and court cases. And the hiding of known pedophiles in congregations of JWs. Some of those pedophiles were (and maybe still are) Elders and because they were hidden in congregations they managed to sexually abuse more than one child continuously.  Unless your think all of the Victims Earthwide are telling lies. 
    And you will remember that up until 2013 ( i think it was that year) ALL of the Anointed were classed as the Faithful and Discreet Slave, but that tittle was suddenly taken from them by the GB. So did the GB exhalt themselves or belittle the reast of the  Anointed ? 
    Aurana, we are all imperfect, but those with more power and responsibility (the GB) need to be more careful with how they use it all. 
     
  25. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in A. MORRIS AND MONEY   
    The person who wrote this may not have been aware of the message he/she was sending. It is to be assumed that he/she meant any other organization outside the JW circle. But WTJWorg is an organization as well. Or to write, Organization, with a capital letter.
    I believe there is a difference between the terms, (being) organized and (having) organization.
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