Shiwiii
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Posts posted by Shiwiii
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Based on your statement and the word "obligate"
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/obligate
Synonyms for obligate
require
constrain
oblige
bind
force
restrain
restrict
astrict
indebtJust now, Anna said:Do you have to be told?? I thought you said one does not have to be told these things. Even the police do not tell a survivor/victim they have to talk to them (the police).
common sense says no, but now were dealing with people who cannot think for themselves because the gb has told them otherwise.
I understand, your org is precious and when outsiders (government commissions included) point out things that are just plain WRONG, it hurts your view of right and wrong. Its called cognitive dissonance.
- JOHN BUTLER and Anna
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1 minute ago, Anna said:
Of course not. You were the one making the point.
actually no, YOU said it.
4 minutes ago, Anna said:When the law of the land "the authorities" obligate a person who has heard of an allegation of CSA to report to the authorities, then JWs will report to the authorities.
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Just now, Anna said:
Yes. And that is what they will try to do.
only if forced by the law of the land, otherwise.....SHHhhhhhhhh don't tell anyone because it will make jehovah sad.
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Just now, Anna said:
You are funny. This is what we have been talking about. When the law of the land "the authorities" obligate a person who has heard of an allegation of CSA to report to the authorities, then JWs will report to the authorities.
so jws have to wait until forced to what is good?
- Srecko Sostar and JOHN BUTLER
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12 minutes ago, Anna said:
This is irrelevant. You are making the mistake of mixing two separate things together. You do not need two witnesses to make a report to the police. This is only for congregational action.
so why doesn't the policy state to bring it up to the police?
Would they if it was murder? it is in a sense murder, murder of their innocence.
- Srecko Sostar and JOHN BUTLER
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28 minutes ago, Anna said:
Correct, they are not bound by scripture if there is no law to report to the police.
Romans 13 says they are bound by means of doing what is good.
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Romans13
1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
How come this does not come into the minds of jws when talking about CSA and the authorities?
- Srecko Sostar and JOHN BUTLER
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19 minutes ago, Anna said:
You can be certain that if I had got the information you did, I would have gone to the police and elders the next day! So who is more concerned?
bah, I do not believe you.
I believe you would talk to elders and then keep quiet so that you don't make Jehovah sad.
That's policy, right?
- JOHN BUTLER, Arauna and Anna
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13 hours ago, Anna said:
Since the elders are concerned with spiritual things in the congregation and not law making, they focus on the sinful aspect. This does not negate nor replace the criminal aspect.
It most certainly does negate and or replace the criminal aspect if they do not take it to the police. They are then an accomplice to covering up abuse. Why do you think there are so many lawsuits going on right now?
13 hours ago, Anna said:I don't need anyone to point out the difference to me. Do you? I mean would you go to the police and say "so and so has committed a sin". You would get funny looks wouldn't you?
Are you just playing dumb or are you serious? I think you are trying to make this seem silly and petty, when in fact it is far from it. Children are being raped and molested, and this org and its supporters of "WT policy" are covering it up and refusing to protect the victims and or future victims.
Was it considered lies by the devil or Satan's media/fake news when this was/is going on within the Catholic church and jws talked about it then?
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Anna,
So you are not going to give your answer, and instead regurgitate what the wt says.
Did you notice that nothing is said of taking this "serious sin" to the police, when in fact it is a serious crime?
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3 minutes ago, Anna said:
Why don't you test out the safe guarding policy yourself, instead of claiming that it is not being followed? Why don't you tell the elders of the accusation you have learned of?
5. When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch
office of Jehovah’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws. (Romans 13:1)
Even if the elders have no legal duty to report an accusation to the authorities, the branch office of Jehovah’s
Witnesses will instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or
there is some other valid reason. Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation
of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the
other parentWhy cant the policy state to take it to the police first?
Who is more trained to handle these types of situations? Elders/police?
- Srecko Sostar and JOHN BUTLER
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I'm sure it would be just as legal as the jw setting up carts giving out tracts that condemn other religions for various reasons.
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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
I said I would need TWO (or more) competent Russian speakers ....
Is that like the two witness rule?
really, just kidding. It was just too tempting to pass up. .
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1 hour ago, runtifus said:
Are you an Ex-Witness?
are you gonna shun him if so? lol
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1 hour ago, Judith Sweeney said:
Hahaha! I just re-read everything and the ''stage" is not like it is Broadway!
(Get tha Hook!)
you're right its not, but it is humiliation in front of friends and family.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14753634.2013.778485
Since power is central to humiliation, the victim of an act of humiliation can be described not as feeling but as being humiliated, as the victim of an act of power. Humiliation is something actively done by one person to another, even if through institutions or directed in principle at groups. It is a demonstration of the capacity to use power unjustly with apparent impunity.
Shaming and humiliating children is emotionally abusive. It is not ok to smack children physically or with words. Young people deserve and are entitled to reach out, attach and bond with their caretakers. It is an expectation that the parent will provide safety, protection, acceptance, understanding and empathy. When this does happen, children grow up knowing their worth and demanding respect from others and themselves. When children are emotionally or psychologically abused, they grow up feeling unloved, unwanted, and fearful. Normal development is interrupted and it sends the wounded child into exile. This is when negative internal messages are developed and why we have so many adults today feeling “not good enough.”
Shaming and humiliation causes fear in children. This fear does not go away when they grow up. It becomes a barrier for a healthy emotional life and is difficult to eradicate. If these same children become parents, the possibility also exists that the fear and negativity can be unwittingly passed through the generations.
Importantly, the more a victim is aware of human rights values, the more likely they are to feel humiliated. When one is acted upon in a way that undermines one’s sense of equal dignity, as it is enshrined in human rights, the psychological damage of humiliation is being inflicted. It is this damage that is particularly hard to recover and heal from. Lindner believes that humiliation is the necessary concept for defining victimhood as “victimhood” and as such has to be considered as the key ingredient that makes conflict comprehensible and thus preventable and manageable. According to Lindner, “victimhood at the hands of fellow human beings must entail the notion of humiliation, otherwise it would not be seen as victimhood but as pro-social event or natural disaster.”
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I don't quite get your comment on "combative speech", unless you are meaning my query into your position on the matter. If that is the case, then please let me explain. It is very easy for folks to side step or use words sort of like a double innuendo to slip out of their position when presented with a logical scenario in which they would find themselves at odds with their previous position. I just wanted to be clear on where you stand. You have made it clear to me that you do accept public shaming of children. I was only offering/questioning another possibility of where you may not agree with shaming children. I see now that there is not.
I agree with you on the cleaning the house or some other thing to do if they choose not to participate in the family function, however the kid didn't choose to be born into this family. So I guess its either suck it up and go through the motions until of age to care for ones self, or pay the consequences. Either situation is a far cry from a loving family or "what would Jesus do". You're right Jesus didn't force anyone to do anything, but many jw parents do. Many jw parents force their children to go out in service or be a jw and if they choose not to, throw them out of the house. Happens all the time. I was just playing devil's advocate.
Nope, I'm not the angry kid. In fact I have never been a jw nor had jw parents. does this discredit my observation of jw parents kicking their children out of the house? you could say that, but you would be wrong.
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17 hours ago, Judith Sweeney said:
Let's just say that this person/kid is going out in service, and is leading a double life. Then they are subject to being reproved. That is all. It would be different if that person messed up and then went to the congregation elders for help. That would show a repentant attitude.
So in a sense you are ok with shaming kids from the stage.
Got it.
So next question, What if that kid doesn't want to go out in service? but is forced to?
Then it is still ok to shame them for not wanting a part of "the game" ?
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12 minutes ago, Judith Sweeney said:
@James Thomas Rook Jr. It is about keeping the Congregations clean...according to Scripture.
What I meant exactly is that a 16 year young person is old enough to know that if that person is living a double life....then there is the risk of "reaping what is sowed".
so you are saying its ok for them to be shamed on the stage to keep the congregation clean? I'm not picking this apart, just trying to see your point.
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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
I think Judith Sweeney meant not getting involved with Jehovah's Witnesses .... not leaving home at that early age.
I understand,
looking at this from the angle I did, isn't this exactly what 13-16 year old's need to look forward to if they choose not to be a jw? many many cases have been this way. Child decides not to be a jw and gets thrown out of the home.
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On 12/16/2018 at 11:29 PM, Judith Sweeney said:
16 years of age is age enough to know that if you cannot play by the rules, get out of the game.
How does a 13-16 year old "get out of the game" ?
Start a business to support themselves while obtaining a car and home once kicked out of the house for not drinking the koolaid ?
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39 minutes ago, Josué2 said:
La bible ne parle que de deux anniversaires et les deux ce sont mal terminés.
lisez mon post sur les siestes de l'après-midi. 2 Samuel 4
Selon la logique du raisonnement WT, alors les siestes sont également détestées par Dieu.En outre, il y a plus d'anniversaires mentionnés dans la Bible, Jésus étant le plus significatif. Les anges ont célébré la naissance de Jésus. En outre, Isaaic, le fils d'Abraham, a organisé une fête d'anniversaire le jour où il a été hanté et rien de mal n'est arrivé à personne. Genèse 2: 8 spécifiquement. Faites une recherche sur ce que signifie «weening» et quand il a été interprété dans la culture israélite.
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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:
Actually I don't think there are ANY scriptures which say God hates birthdays or birthday presents.
There are two instances where bad things happened on people's birthdays in the Bible.
@Space Merchant said "It didn't stop the early Christians who wanted to ban such things" Could we have some enlargement on this please.
The three 'wise men' that took gifts to Jesus on his birth. Were they offering 'birth-day presents' ?
And ( and i promise you this is not of my own originality ), an Elder once said that the gift of the Holy Spirit from God to Jesus Christ, was given to Christ on his 30th birthday. A present at Christ's baptism.. Don't shoot me down for telling the truth of what I'd heard. Unusual thought that one.
And what is that scripture about 'one man thinking one day is different from another, whereas another man thinks all days are the same' ?
SM, I think 'the problem is drawn' when people poke their noses in where they are not needed. God Himself, through Jesus Christ, will do the judging. Who are we to judge our brother ? Straw and rafter come to mind.
Pagans breathe you know. Maybe we should all stop breathing. Stopping everything just because pagans do it is not the true answer is it.
Balance, mercy, love, understanding. Forgiveness, not being domineering, not pushing our own ides onto others. Qualities like those are much more important than obeying 'rules' laid down by other humans.
isn't this the whole beheading thing at birthday parties in the Bible?
John the Baptist as an example ?
Well then naps in the daytime must ALSO fall under that category.
2 Sam 4:5-8
5 Now the sons of Rimmon the Beerothite, Rechab and Baanah, set out, and about the heat of the day they came to the house of Ish-bosheth as he was taking his noonday rest. 6 And they came into the midst of the house as if to get wheat, and they stabbed him in the stomach. Then Rechab and Baanah his brother escaped.[a] 7 When they came into the house, as he lay on his bed in his bedroom, they struck him and put him to death and beheaded him. They took his head and went by the way of the Arabah all night,
So all the mothers who gave their children a nap during the day also made Jehovah sad, and are despised by him.
I mean standards are standards, right?
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Matthew,
WWHHHHHAAAAAAAhhhhhhhh
I don't like your comment, while appropriately stated by means of the wt view, I will say something that makes me feel better about myself and pins you and other's with sarcastic humor beneath me.
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Blood?
Tight pants?
A scholarship?
A bethel pillow?
a copy of Crisis of Conscience?
Transcripts from the Australian Royal Commission case study 54?
RECLAIMED VOICES new letter to JW brothers and sisters.
in Topics
Posted
Here's what I think is funny, but not really, So John becomes the subject of conversation in this thread and scorn from some because he has not reported abuse to the police based on the knowledge he may have. These same folks who point the finger at John, defend a policy that does not report anything to the police.
There is only one description for this kind of behavior.
Hypocrisy!
And this surprises me none coming from those who support the wt and gb.