Shiwiii

Excellent description and support with scripture. I could have just given the happy face vote or the up arrow vote, but I felt it more appropriate to actually write it out.

I agree with you, it is a problem/sickness/crime that infiltrates every part of the world. There are no groups 100% clean of such persons. However, it is how each group/org reacts to the situations that makes or breaks the uprightness of said group. My purpose of bringing up the Catholic Church in this is because of the hypocrisy in which they (the wt and jws in general) condemned the Catholics for their mishandling of the same cases they now have on their plate and doing as the Catholics did,...try to hide it.

You get a downvote for posting a map of facts? Its the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "la la la la la la, I can't hear you" because they don't want to hear the "truth" Funny that they didn't have this same attitude about the facts when it was the Catholic Church doing the same thing and trying to hide it.

This is the question. Especially with what you KNOW...

I can appreciate and understand COMPLETELY your position. It is also the reason why I decided to cancel my subscription to participate in the armed forces. Your point is very valid and your perspective is a correct one. I too have a different view of that exact structure and what it fosters. I fully acknowledge that the leadership of military organizations is chocked full of folks who have no business being in the positions they are in. It was my personal experiences that led me to reject that form of employment. I worked in many of the places that the "brass" did because of my abilities and training, I was secure comm and was slotted to become one of the elite. What I could not handle and agree with were the very things you mention. I could not continue to support an organization that deliberately went against morality to save face for a few, all the while putting those under them in harms way because of it. So I left. It really is no difference in the corporate world, except your are not there to protect anything but the higher ups bonus and no one is in harms way. When this philosophy is attached my eternal destiny, and not just my paycheck, things take a very different course of action. I do not throw my hat in ANY ring! Do I have fellowship? yes. Do I have those whom I seek for help on Spiritual matters? yes. Are they the end all be all and no questions when it comes to their interpretation? no. I cannot allow someone else to take the rudder out of my hands on something so important as this. Am I perfect and have all of the answers? no, but who is the one to answer to God when that day comes? Me and only me. So when I see organizations, such as the wt, make such high demands upon their members without the ability for them to question or disagree, I have to speak up about it. I am no prophet nor fortuneteller, but I strongly believe you will never see this happen, no one will. The reason why is the mistakes being made are far to serious and underhanded to be forgotten or dismissed to the educated mind. As our world progresses so does common knowledge (we hope), and it is only a matter of time before the truth about the "truth" comes out in such a way that the society/wt goes the way of the dodo. People are only as stupid as they allow themselves to be. If people choose to hide their head in the sand and ignore what is really going on, they will be ignorant and accept whatever is being fed to them. The history of this org and their claims and practices should be enough, but at this point it isn't. One must now look into the past and compare the current teachings, if the material isn't lost or changed, and truly see if God is backing their actions. I have researched these things and cannot believe that God has anything to do with this org. Just like you said "All civilizations grow and evolve, and the casualties are ENORMOUS. The United States of America has committed innumerable sins and evils in it's pursuit of righteousness, equity and Justice ... and is continuing to do so." , but none of the civilizations were the answer to our eternal destiny. It is a growth process, but you can only grow so very far by tyranny. Tyranny like those of the Pharaohs and Pharisees is what we are looking at within the wt from my view.

That's the part I don't get either. I don't think if it were proven true that it would make any difference to you JTR. You'd still throw your hat in their camp, because its the best game in town, in your view. You've said as much. Your last sentence is a complete contradiction of what they have said for years and years, but its still not enough to convince you that this group the jws/wt is following men, use to be 7 men and now 8 again. You had mentioned in a different post that you are with the jws and it doesn't matter who is in charge or leading the group. While I agree that there are some fine folks who are jws and moral people they are for the most part, its still lemming mentality to continue to follow the group just because they are nice people being led by who knows. I will also apologize now for singling out just you here, I am sorry, I do not mean to make you upset or have a distaste for me. I like you, I like your sense of humor and your wit, and that is why I singled you out. I would hope that instances like this would make a person pause, take a step back and take an honest look at what is being taught/told/demanded of jws. The compounding problems that are coming up from this org should be enough for people to open their eyes and do diligent research on EVERYTHING, but sadly many are in a position in which they either cannot leave due to family, or are so blinded that they cannot see what is going on. When a group tells its people be ready to obey our instruction no matter how crazy we sound, that right there should be a red flag. Ignoring the obvious doesn't make it go away. I see it daily, the jws keep on the edge of their seats waiting for the next hoop that they need to jump through to look good to each other. Its like high school, except in high school we didn't know any better and now as adults some still need that social group to belong to and refuse to grow up.

Do you know who the two chaps in the video are? Gary Breaux and Ralph Walls Are these not legit folks high up in the wt? Haven't there been other videos with these guys speaking before? I understand you trust no one, but its hard not to when its coming from their own mouths. Is it possible that you, and others, are trying really hard NOT to believe its real?

Did you happen to watch the full video yet?

What is this? Mockery? Are you serious here? You have just demonstrated your position on the subject and it is lacking. Instead of supporting your stance, you dodge it with a diversion such as this. I'm pretty sure you have supported your positions in the past quite well, but here you failed.

"All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not." Watchtower 2013 Nov 15 p.20

What are you going to call it when it is true? Spiritual food? No need for them to be THAT stupid, its already been declared that jws should follow the direction no matter how stupid. "All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not." Watchtower 2013 Nov 15 p.20

here is a nice comment or two made in the video: "The male animal has no season in which he is not willing to engage in the breeding act" "a brother sits on the lap of one of his male friends..." - Gary Breaux

Videos for bethelites to come out on the 27th. Stay tuned

When I see one walk into Bethel with a pillow, blanket and a dirty mag, and be totally self satisfying.....THAT is a Bethelite. Seriously, how weird does it have to be there for the wt to have to make videos about self pleasure, one for the guys and one for the girls. Now that is a leaked video, pillowgate 2018 brought to you by wt. Can't wait for the sign language version to come out.

of course we give glory to God daily, as did the Jews, but there are also separate festivals/feasts in which we can elaborate or worship. I also agree with you on not allowing outside influence to slip into what we choose to do for our festivals. Yes, however it has been said MANY times by jws that "true christians" do not celebrate this or that. Those are judging statements and as I said are in direct contrast with scripture.

I understand what you are saying. I don't partake in the Santa Claus thing nor yule,sun god or the like. Me and my family simply choose to celebrate the birth of Jesus at that time. I guess what I wanted to get across was the fact that the Bible allows such celebration as long as it is to the Glory of God. While not all choose to celebrate, which is fine, no one has the right to judge....make a statement that "true Christians" don't or anything along those lines, because that is in direct contrast to Colossians 2:16.

my question was about the celebration of Jesus birth, no matter what day it is done. Since Romans 14 tells us that each of us decides in his or her own heart on what day is above another, as long as it is to the glory of God, then Colossians 2 tells us that no one is to judge us by it. I wanted to know if you see it that way as well? or is there some other scripture that you believe overrides this? Or am I just wrong? That is what I was asking.

Huh? Then what you are really saying is that you think Jesus wants you to remain loyal to pagan rituals and rules? You made an oath while pagan, to which you agree is to the side of evil, and you think Jesus wants you to keep that oath? I really don't think you believe that, instead I think you made stuff up to try and look good, and now that you got caught, you have to keep up the pretending.

hogwash and wishful thinking. If they in fact were a continuation of "spiritual" disciples, then they would have never deviated from what you claim is the "truth". They would have never celebrated Christmas nor worshiped Jesus. So your argument falls flat. You can try and spin with words, but it just doesn't add up.

You really want me to believe that if you are standing outside with your friends at night and its dark, lightning strikes on the other side of the house you're at and someone says " I saw lightning", you are going to say "nope not me, I didn't see the bolt so it wasn't lightning". So what about those who are on the side of the house where the bolt was, did they see it? Would those then see Jesus? Yes of course they would. That is about the most intellectually dishonest statement I think I've heard about this subject. You must think any non jw is stupid. That's fine if you want to try and convince yourself that you cannot see Him. I personally cannot accept that nonsense. I guess I'll be judged by God for taking His word too literally, instead of taking what a group of men interpret it to mean. I'm sorry if you think I am being harsh, but just stop and think about it for a moment. Men have told you that Jesus came invisibly and scripture says "every eye will see Him" (Rev 1:7). The context of Matt 24:24-27 is saying that there will come some people saying that Jesus has come but you can't see Him (inner rooms, in the desert, etc.). That fits the wt exactly, but some have been so blinded and duped by these men that they just cannot see.

How would one perceive to know that lightning occurred according to the scripture I quoted?

right there you just made my point, the first line you wrote. if they needed to change, then they DID NOT continue what the disciples started. You cannot claim they are a continuation and at the same time claim they deviated. Unless you believe that the first disciples got it wrong too.

How do you look at this in light of scripture, specifically Romans 14:5&6 and Colossians 2:16?

And right here is what needs to be done. Do better as a whole. Take into consideration the recommendations from the ARC and Silent Lambs, the courts and the like, to make those changes that will keep the children and people in general safer. Will it be perfect, probably not, but there is so much that can be done. The arrogance from the top of the org to think they know better is appalling.