Shiwiii

Its ok, Everything I proposed is in my first post in this thread.

Did anyone get these a while back? Â Â

I'm not sure how any of what you wrote fits with what I proposed for discussion. Its like we're both talking science, I chemical bonds and you biology.

Why are you sooo bitter? You resort to personal attacks because you cannot refute the facts? The fact is, that the wt and the gb are "passing the plate", but you close your eyes and say"lalalalallalalal I can't hear you" They are modeling after those in which they denounce, but you can't accept that. again, really? The difference you fail to see here is Paul was inspired, the wt and gb are not................ again with the personal attacks you've been proven wrong on this but refuse to accept it. You know if you take a step back and look, you'll see that your personal attacks only expose your inability to refute the facts presented to you.

October 1, 2017 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN NIGERIA Re: Local Needs For the Week of October 16-22 Dear Brothers: The mid-week meeting for the week of October 16-22 has a 15 minute local needs part regarding donations that includes a video on ways to contribute electronically. During that part, the following information should be conveyed to the congregation. Please stress that regularity is very important when contributing. Some 20 years after Pentecost of 33 C.E., the apostle Paul reminds the Corinth congregation about the need for a certain contribution. “Now concerning the collection that is for the holy ones, just as I gave orders to the congregations of Galatia, do that way also yourselves,” he writes. Then he adds a piece of advice: “Every first day of the week let each of you at his own house set something aside in store as he may be prospering, so that when I arrive collections will not take place then. But when I get there, whatever men you approve of by letters, these I shall send to carry your kind gift to Jerusalem.” The resolving of how much to give appears to have included the whole family, whether rich or poor, because it was to take place at their “own house.”—1 Corinthians 16:1-3. Paul’s suggestion on the manner of contributing can be applied by congregation members today. How? Regularity is the key. If your congregation is to pay the monthly rent and maintenance expenses of your meeting place or Kingdom Hall, it will take “contributing, not so much the amount, but the regularity of setting something aside each week or month for Kingdom interests,” writes the branch office in Peru. Does this idea appeal to you? Even children can be taught to appreciate how regularity in contributing is part of their worship. We all regularly set aside money for school fees, food, rent and other necessities. How much more important it is to do so for kingdom interests. Taking advantage of whichever way is most convenient for us personally, whether electronically or by using the contribution box in our local Kingdom Hall, regularity in contribution will help us to put true worship first in our lives. As we wish you Jehovah’s rich blessing on your efforts, please Is this the head start to tithing? Seems so. More and more the wt and gb are assimilating themselves after that in which they denounce.

I wonder why there has been no response to your post here. While I agree with some of what you said, not all of it. I'd really like to see what current jws think about this post of yours and the claims you make. I agree with your view of the gb, but I disagree with your view of the wt and their/your interpretation of anointed. Can we discuss? I will put this out here and wait and see if there is any reply by you or by anyone willing to dive in and give their understanding. First up is Galatians 4 " I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything, 2 but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. 3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. 4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God." So if one has the spirit of Jesus within them, then they are heirs/sons/daughters/children of God. Now I would make the assumption here that you would agree, since you also state you are anointed. Is this anointing of the Holy Spirit or of the Spirit of the Son (Jesus)? Is it the same? if not, why not. Take into consideration the scriptures found in Matthew 1:21, John 6:53-58, John 14:16-21, John 15:4-7 and just one more Romans 8:9-11. This last set of scriptures tell the story pretty clear, specifically verse 9, if you do not have the Spirit of Christ IN you, you do not belong to Him. Does these scriptures have a limited number of participants who can belong to Christ Jesus? I don't see any. So those who have the Spirit of Jesus within them are called heirs according to Galatians 4. Continuing on in Galatians 4: "21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.” 28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise." So when we look at this part of scripture, we see two groups. The group from Sarah, who are from Jerusalem from above (heaven) and the group from Hagar, who are from the earthly Jerusalem. Is this the two class system? Is this the heavenly vs the earthly destination? Lets keep looking. Galatians 4:29 "But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31 So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman." So here scripture says that the "we" in verse 31 are of Sarah, free woman, Jerusalem from heaven (above). What did verse 27 says about those from Sarah? "“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.” The one depicted as the one having a husband was Hagar, as the barren one would be Sarah. Sarah's children will be more than Hagars! In verse 30 the Bible says that the sons of Hagar will NOT be heirs with the sons of Sarah. This is one of those scriptures that has a dual meaning. Sarah's children were Jews and Hagar's children were not. How can this be reconciled with the context of the NT? What is being said to us? To reconcile this one has to also incorporate more scriptures and similar symbolism. Revelation 21:9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, " The Bride of Christ is the Heavenly Jerusalem, as stated here in Revelation 21:9-10. The number of those who belong to the Jerusalem from above outnumber those of Hagar according to Galatians. Genesis 15:3 And Abram said, “Behold, you have given me no offspring, and a member of my household will be my heir.” 4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him: “This man shall not be your heir; your very own son shall be your heir.” 5 And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” This puts an immeasurable number to the number of those who can be anointed/Bride of Christ/from Heavenly Jerusalem. This also pulls into question the idea of earthly calling vs heavenly calling, but I'll wait for your response to dig deeper.

I understand you are in complete agreement with WHATEVER the gb says, so really none of what I post should even interest you, but it does. Why? Is it because the exposure of hypocrisy taints the picture you have in your head? probably. I understand that you feel that EVERYTHING is fine in jw-land, but many don't. So why should your approval make any difference to those who don't swallow everything spit out by the gb? it doesn't, and this thread is not all about you or how much you admire(worship) the gb. This thread is about how the wt/gb does exactly the same as many other religions do in regards to money from the people, but tell the rank and file that they don't. Kinda like the phrase "do as I say not as I do". The letters I have posted here point directly to what I am saying, they have merit, that which you cannot deny but only dismiss. This banter reminds me of something JTR said recently about calling someone's momma fat. Feelings are hurt because someone called your momma fat, and now its time to defend defend defend your momma not matter what. Its ok Tom, this is not about you nor me, it is about getting the truthful information out there for those lurking and questioning.

I just wet myself knowing that the letter was real, and you saw that it was real, making what I was saying true.

you got me darn it! I followed you into the rabbit hole and waaayyyyy off topic............ugh! Back to "passing the plate", does anyone have any information that could shed light onto the subject that contrasts what has already been presented?

Your feelings are your feelings, but I'm not about to sit here and read a cut and paste from WT. If what they say is exactly what you feel/believe, ok fine but I'm not reading pages from them. I'd much rather read what you feel and believe from your own words. I understand and will take your position into thought the next time we discuss. I doubt we will because I cannot fathom a person who stands convicted by what the WT says but cannot put it into their own words for meaningful discussion. Good day.

This is the first true statement you've made about me. This was in response to what? This comment: I guess my point DID come across correctly.

This answers NOTHING of what your position is. If I wanted to hear from the WT, I'd look it up myself. I want to know how YOU fit the two. If it is the same, then by all means put it into your own words and support it with scripture and I'll be happy to discuss, but If all you are going to do is point to a website, then forget it. This is a discussion board to bounce our ideas, thoughts and understandings off of each other in order to grow more in depth of our understanding about this world we live in and the people that exist here.

well then if you have something to say, say it. It won't hurt my feelings. Do you think I am going against "God's people" by exposing the hypocrisy spouted by the WT? Is that your intention with the Balaam comment? Listen GF, if you want to call each other names in a sly fashion by means of using scripture and assigning characters for each, do me a favor and spell it out or write a play. I can play your game, but lets try and stick to the topic being discussed in each thread instead of trying to divert from facts. This seems to be a popular tactic of jws when they have no answers.

How does this answer the question I raised? What King announces himself? When exactly did this happen, I mean Christ's presence, according to scripture?

You're not trying to tell me that you are a donkey are you?

Its super easy Tom, STOP REPLYING Because you sidestepped it.

Great point, What King announces himself? He doesn't, it is his under-servants who do the announcing. agreed

Then why do men? If there are scriptures that refute what these men say, then why do these men say it is so and who are we to believe? There are scriptures that contradict this idea of Michael being Jesus. The worship accounts make it clear that Michael cannot be Jesus. Even if you call it obeisance, scripture still refutes the claim.

Give me a break, seriously? Why is there even a requirement for $$$ per person in a cong? Why make videos showing little kids giving up their ice cream money to the org? Why come out with video after video instructing the jws on how to give money. Why the continual selling off of real estate for millions, but yet still take from the congs by selling THIER k-halls? Why make a mandate that pays off a loan for a kh but still demands the same payment indefinitely? This is above and beyond what any group or church does that is not part of a money making scheme. Do you think God needs money? I suspect you don't, so who is it that needs your money? That is the basis of this whole topic. I understand you do not want to look at a bigger picture, its ok. The bigger picture will present itself soon enough. The pieces are there, the documentation is out, the gig is up, but there are always diehards who still believe the emperor has the finest clothes around.

That is all you could come up with for answers to why the wt says one thing and does another? I suspect your answer is #3

please elaborate, because I fail to see any connection to the topic being discussed here.

It seems this is your only response to facts given to you that contradict the picture painted for you by the wt. There is a term for this and its called 'Psychological projection'. Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others

I think it is very telling that you resort to a conversation within your own head to try and divert the facts presented to you. It's not unlike the game some children play where they blame their imaginary friend for the mistakes they've made.

What is the meaning of this? Why is there a need to have more than one box labeled for "worldwide"? Why is there now no box for local? Is it because they are now "asking" for all of the money to go to the HQ and they will disperse as they see fit? please transfer all of your money to us....Thanks we're gonna need it for all of the lawsuits coming up.

All, please do not forget to study the "tutorial for making donations electronically" on Oct 16th. It is only the wt's way of asking,not asking, for money, which they don't do......right?. I'm sure that none of you have ever paid for anything electronically, so this just may help you out. What a wonderful pleasure to be told how technology works in this cutting edge tutorial. Who would have thought that you could actually give money to the wt electronically? they don't beg/ask/request/demand money like the rest of christendom does, what a blessing.