Shiwiii

did you see their towel? never leave home without one

The answer to your question is......42

So what exactly are you saying here? That the wt has done some stuff? ok, so what, so has any other group.

So where do you see that this is any different that what the wt asks for? I see nothing as mandatory. Also, since you brought it up, what does the word tithe mean? Is it in the Bible? Who was it told to?

Then why such the demand that 144k is literal? I see this as ALL who are in Christ, not any select number. Certainly the number of those from Rev 20:6 are from the first resurrection as it states, but the second resurrection is that of judgement. Don't you agree? I disagree, Rev 22:17 is almost a rhetorical statement about the members of the Bride in general. All believers are a part of the body and they would be ministering to each other, a lifting up of each other. Everyone needs support and uplifting, a pastor, even if he is the head of a cong, still needs support and ministering to by others. I do not see this as us and them, but rather a collective "we". This is true, however I believe our experiences and opinions on this "new creation" differ greatly. Lets dig deeper into this, shall we? I agree with you where the bride comes down out of Heaven as the new Jerusalem. What is this new Jerusalem made up of? You say that it is the anointed ones, and I don't disagree, but our idea of who makes up the anointed is different. You subscribe to a number in which the wt agrees, 144k from Rev 7:4, yes? I'll leave this here for now. I want to make sure I understand your position clearly before we continue.

then why is that a talking point with the wt to try and set themselves apart from the rest? Asking is all the rest does, so now it comes down to ...........they're all the same, so there is no grounds to boast upon.

So then why do jws still insist that the wt does not ask for money? Why then does the WT say they do not ask for money?

It has nothing to do with me getting excited about a letter, it has more to do with pulling the curtain back and exposing the great Oz for who they really are. Its more like helping others to see that the emperor has no clothes. lol, not intended, but yeah I guess it was.

maybe implication is a better description of what the wt has said. Stay alive til 75' Who was it that said the "parousia" already happened? Isn't that what 1914 is?

Why does that even matter? Its still the facts. So what you are telling me is you like being left in the dark about what really goes on, and would rather believe the wt does not ask for money, "like the rest do", when in fact they do. I think you made this idea up to help your cause. you are truly grasping here. You know this doesn't apply. The context of that set of scriptures have nothing to do with what you propose.

Did you not read the letter? There IS a requirement per publishers. LOL, you really think that? my goodness. like what? food, clothing? humanitarian aid? Never seen it come from the organization, individuals...yes, but not the org.

What do you call a "recommended amount the average publisher needs to contribute" if not a beg and petition? Oh wait, I think I get it now. It is not a beg or petition, but rather a demand and requirement, an additional law given to the people.

actually it is not, it is your inability to see with your eyes open that what you say and what the wt says is nowhere near the actual truth

what you are failing to grasp is that while YOU say, and they say they do not ask for money, I have just shown you that they DO in fact ask for money. So when you stand on your soapbox and proclaim just how much better the wt is because they don't ask for money, just shows how hypocritical they really are.

Hey, wasn't there something about money in this weeks meeting? Something about the average amount a publisher should be contributing? And you say they don't ask for money.......lol

quit making excuses, your cognitive dissonance is showing.

I don't pay to play so there are no churches that have my money. If you think that CO's and Do's don't get paid (green handshakes) then you obviously haven't been told the whole story. Do they get paid handsomely, nope, but paid none the less. To be honest, I really don't care who gets paid for what, I'm just not a fan of saying one thing and condemning other's for what you are doing also.

Thank you for the reply. Interesting

i'm in i'm in! Wait.................... which generation is this for?

Do you believe the overlapping generation ? What is your opinion?

Tell me how the overlapping generation is a matter of personal opinion? Didn't everyone think those old folks on the cover of that mag were not going to die? This was doctrine. Then it became those who were alive and could perceive the events of that time would not die. Next it was those who were born then would not die, and now it includes people not even in the same generation? how absurd. I can dig up the wt references if you'd like.

And exactly how much money does it cost to speak to someone? None. There is a reason why "religion is a snare and a racket", there is a reason why we are told not to worship riches, etc.

if you do not adhere to the teaching of the overlapping generation, you're out! See the thread about it. if it were opinion, then why in the heck do we have dictionaries then? Are those rubbish?

I'm with you up until here. The number is also literal, but the specifics of who makes up that number as also literal. One cannot take part literal and not the rest. If it is to be taken symbolically, then the rest is also to be taken symbolically. To take part and not the other is to divide scripture. Does that mean that there is only one way of interpreting this 144k? Not at all! There is duality in scripture a plenty, but it either all fits or it doesn't. So do you think that Paul had no choice? Peter? I don't see where Christ shares first with any select group. In fact when I read Romans 8, I see where If we are in Christ we are heirs and if we are not in Christ, then we are not His. Consequently, if we are not His (Christs) then we have no life in us (John 6:53). of course it is logical, its even Biblical, John 15:16-19 I believe this is a completely separate topic, while tied in...agreed, but a whole different can of worms. We have to go backwards in Revelation to determine who is being talked about here. Remember that Revelation was written from a vision of future accounts to John while on Patmos. So the accounts describe both future and present, according to John. throughout Revelation, there isn't a separation and distinction of "the anointed" vs the rest of God's people. There is a distinction about the wicked and righteous for sure. There is plenty more we can gather as well from the rest of scripture. For instance Galatians 4 tells us a lot about who is from Abraham and who is our mother. I'm sure we'll dig into that a bit more as this discussion progresses. Again, with regards to this new creation and 2 Cor 5:17, looking at Romans 8 tells us who is, it are those who are in Christ Jesus. If one is not in Christ Jesus that one does not belong to Him, and thus by means of scripture Jesus was sent to save His people (Matt 1:21), so if one is not found in Christ Jesus, then Jesus did not come to save them. So all who are in Christ Jesus are anointed, all are called, all are not equal in gifts nor place, all are a part of the body of Christ. It is by those other scriptures you quoted that attest to this, once one is born of the spirit they become heirs, all of them. This is opinion, not backed by scripture. The wt is never mentioned in the Bible, nor its group of men. This is the bottom line we are talking about and without scripture to prove this, it is merely opinion. To me this is borderline blasphemy, as well as other claims made by the men of the wt. Do I believe that there are people in all walks of life in which God will use and save? Sure. If He can use drug addicts, harlots, murders, Idolaters and the like, then He can use anybody for anything and save whom He has chosen. To declare that only those whom men have organized to do their will, are selected and saved is taking the place and power of God.

Your opinion. Mine differs. Simple as that. I've given you my reasons why and that it is done on a larger scale then directly to you, the individual, but you ignore that. Ok. What do they have to show for the consolidation of kh's, in particular the ones paid for by the cong and dissolved by the wt? did the wt give the cong their money back? nope. Why not? I mean they paid for it themselves and not from a wt loan. What they did get was a big "thank you, now move along to the kh we tell you to go to now.