Shiwiii

2 minutes ago, Brother Rando said:

So when Apostates state that God's Name is not in the Greek Scriptures, they are LYING.  

You do realize that the Septuagint is just the OT right? It is NEVER found in the Greek New Testament manuscripts. 

12 minutes ago, Brother Rando said:

Hades is one of the first doctrines of the Apostasy.  Today in it's current form (Matthew 28:19) is also an insertion of Catholic dogma.  Why?  The Apostles only baptized followers in the Name of Jesus Christ. "Peter said to them: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit." (Acts 2:38)

Then why does the earliest manuscripts state "Father , Son and Holy Spirit" ? Do you happen to have a manuscript that predates all others which supports your claim? 

Where is your support for this thinking? That's all I am asking. I disagree with you based on scripture, but I want to see your supporting evidence if you are going to make such a claim. 

4 minutes ago, Brother Rando said:

The Great Tribulation is Spiritual

You really think this? 

47 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Jesus could use a false doctrine if he wished. He made many points based on the false doctrines that people around him believed. But in this case Jesus didn't explain whether or not the foundation of this illustration was false. I'm wondering of other Witnesses have come up with good ways to explain this.

I'm not saying He couldn't, I'm saying He didn't. The points He made about those false doctrines with the people around Him were the truth and it shined the light in the error of their ways.  Jesus does not mislead nor deceive. 

1 hour ago, Brother Rando said:

Jesus spoke in parables or illustrations to those he deemed were not deserving of the knowledge of the Kingdom of the Heavens

True, but never did He deceive or mislead.

1 hour ago, Brother Rando said:

Hell is a doctrine from 'apostate christianity' Christendom.  Those who take the lead among Christendom are the ones being plucked out as 'weeds' to be transferred to the lake of fire. The lake of fire is not a place but rather a condition. It's Figurative.  However, such ones are deserving of dying the second death of everlasting destruction. Their is no escape for them, so they begin the weeping and gnashing of teeth against the Good News of God's Kingdom.  They know they are being cut off and hate it and try with all their might to stop the Good News. 

Soon, when JW's stop knocking on your door, it's a War Signal that the one's outside our inner rooms are all dying the second death.

Gobbly gook, none of what you just stated has anything to do with the topic at hand. Your first statement has yet to be supported with anything you mention.  

You fail to support your claim that being absent from the body in 2 Cor 5 is being absent from the "body of Christ". 

1 hour ago, Brother Rando said:

Jesus Christ didn't speak nor teach about Hell. 

You must be joking right? JWInsider just showed you the error of your statement. 

19 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

Looking up various translations will help give you the proper meaning of hell, which is hades, sheol, or the grave.

Matt 5:29-30, Matt 10:28, Matt 11:23, Matt 16:18, Matt 18:9, Matt 23:33, Mark 9:43-47, Luke 10:15, Luke 12:5

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Again, the question is about Luke 16:19-21. Why did Jesus use a false doctrine as the basis for the descriptions in his illustration?

That would be dishonest, wrong and very misleading, would it not? Not something the Son of God would do. So the answer to your question would be that He did not use false doctrine. It is only the perception and opinion of men that credit dishonesty with Jesus. 

18 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

That's exactly what 1 Corinthians 12 is talking about, the Body of Christ is One Body.

of course it is, that's why I stated it. 1 Cor 12 is completely against your claim of this:

On 7/17/2017 at 4:05 PM, Brother Rando said:

While they still dwell in their fleshly bodies on earth, they are absent from the 'Body of Christ' in the heavenly places

Nowhere does 2 Cor 5 state "body of Christ" nor imply that. 

Not sure what the rest of what you wrote has anything to do with the conversation but its your topic, you can on on any tangent you'd like. 

17 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

Jesus didn't talk about the Church's doctrine of Hell.

That wasn't the question, the question was what did Jesus say about hell. This is where this conversation should start.

What did Jesus say about hell was my question. Your topic was about hell and would I like to learn more, so I am asking what did Jesus say about hell. If we are to follow Christ Jesus, then His word should be what we are looking to.

10 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

By death.

So then at that point, as the scriptures say, one would be present with the Lord. Is that how you see it or does the scripture say something different to you? 

2 Cor 5: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

19 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

While they still dwell in their fleshly bodies on earth, they are absent from the 'Body of Christ' in the heavenly places.

The verse does not say that we would be absent from the "Body of Christ" while here on Earth, if that were the case then it would not harmonize with the view of 1 Corinthians 12.

What did Jesus say about hell? 

How does one become absent from the body?  As in 2 Cor 5, specifically verses 6-8. 

Interesting topic and one that should be discussed. 

Some will say "yes it matters!" and that one MUST use the name Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah etc. The truth of the matter is that NO ONE knows the true pronunciation anymore. All of the names we use are man made names at this point, some just predate others and have been used longer. The inclusion of the name Allah in the question opens this topic up to different forms of belief/religion based on books other than the Bible. So this has splinter-thread all over it. Back to the question, I personally do not have to use any name. I can use a title, a name, or thought of character in my mind. Since most of us here believe in the Bible (not always the same Bible, but none the less), then we KNOW that God can read hearts (Acts 1:24, Acts 15:18, Romans 8:27). This justifies to me that it is not a name that makes my prayers heard, but who I am praying to with my heart. I do not believe that a prayer said without a name can be intercepted, to me that is nonsense. 

51 minutes ago, bruceq said:

   However I have a yes or no "poll" question that I like to ask everyone who is reading this: Does the Governing Body have the right or authority to interpret to us any given Bible teaching [Not just 1914 but anything incl. core teachings]. Your question for the topic of this thread on "1914 problematic" is why I wish to inquire as to where everyone stands on this question of interpretation. Please try not to answer beyond a yes or no "at first" as it will delve into off topic areas. {If someone would like to start a thread on it that is fine}.

Poll Question:

"Does the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses have the right and authority to interpret to us any given Bible teaching? Yes/No.

I think the question needs to be rephrased because anyone has the right to interpret a Bible teaching, it is more a question of do you subscribe to that interpretation.  

Do I subscribe to the teachings of the gb? NO

3 minutes ago, bruceq said:

Sorry but we have all seen what you have posted here is also over time on different threads and it is also apostate. Which is probably why you are trying to defend it As such you are not approved to give any interpretation or guidance to anyone. Sorry.

"They publicly declare that they know God, but they disown him by their works,  because they are detestable and disobedient and NOT APPROVED FOR GOOD WORK OF ANY SORT."  Titus 1:16.

That is truly funny. If everyone here is an apostate why ARE you here? You've already admitted you are not really loyal anyway. So does this make you also an apostate? You are not adhering to the orgs rules as required and thus apostatizing from their orders.  

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Want to test that statement?

Please quote ANYTHING I have ever stated that is NOT TRUE.  

There are over 5 years of, and slightly less than 7,000 comments of mine you can choose from.

PICK ONE ... and challenge me.

ok

40 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I disagree ... Ronald McDonald is a fictional character

I once knew a Ronald McDonald. LOL

1 minute ago, bruceq said:

So you wish me to leave. Why? The category was apostasy. 

why not at all! But as pointed out you are in the same boat. 

3 minutes ago, bruceq said:

I do not need to go into a sewer to know the truth of what is there. There is a reason the Scriptures disagree with you on this point.

 

It is ignorance to not know what the other position is. You THINK you know, but actually do not because you have chosen to believe what your told instead of what you know. 

1 hour ago, bruceq said:

 I agree none of us here are really loyal since we are here.

So then don't you also fall into the category in which you put JWInsider and JTR? Or do the rules not apply to you because you bent them and did not fully break them? Jesus said if you break one of the ten, you break them all. That is if you hold to His teachings.  

2 hours ago, bruceq said:

But true loyal Christians would not read apostate books and teachings and you both have definitely not hidden the fact that you have read and promoted the teachings of Ray Franz in this very thread! .

How does one understand one's own position to be correct if they do not read and analyze the position of others to determine "truth"? 

On 7/3/2017 at 8:50 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I agree 100% .... but then again I got my morality not only from the Bible, but from the old "Code of the West", and I embrace BOTH.

I did too, by my family who experienced the "code of the west" which was loosely based upon the Bible.

On 7/3/2017 at 8:50 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

..and sometimes that extended family abandons you, or casts you out as a perceived danger to them, when ignorant incompetence and  peer pressure prevails. 

this is exactly the same thing going on. It is sad to think that the group mentality out weighs the moral compass in instances like this. It is a collective thinking instead of people making up their own minds on the matter, hence your statement of ignorant incompetence. Lemmings will go over the cliff, sheep will wander off together, but we were created with a mind to use and unfortunately some choose not to use it but relinquish it to others. 

19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

As far as I'm concerned it has nothing to do with no hellfire, no Trinity, political neutrality, and not going to war for example. I consider the last one (no warfare) a major way in which we show we love our neighbor and even love our enemy. Those Christian concepts are rather difficult to justify by participating directly in warfare.

YOU may not, but it was one of the foundational points to prove that jw's had the truth. You already know this as you have extensively researched historical publications for many other things. 

War is a whole other topic that I would welcome a discussion with you. I'd like to understand more on your point of view and discuss scripture about it. 

50 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Those who find that it isn't consistent, probably no longer see it as a central doctrine and therefore are able to dismiss it without causing a serious concern. I think it's because there is still so much more to the core teachings, and they might even seem enhanced in value when one critiques the overall set of remaining doctrines.

crazy how the passage of time negates the seriousness of a change in fundamental doctrine. Its one of the building blocks of the "core teachings" you referenced. This is not unlike a two legged chair, while it still can be used, it lacks the support needed to stand alone.